Guild Wars 2

It’s called supply and demand. Supply = low, demand = high.

Smooth Penguin.5294:

My fellow players – Welcome to the free market!

If 50,000 players want to pay 700 Gold for a Precursor that’s short on supply, and 3 or 4 are willing to pay ~1300 Gold for the same Precursor, guess who I’m selling it to?

Well obviously it’s Anet’s responsibility to smack you around until you sell it to the lowest bidder, because if not he will feel bad. I’ll give you a copper for it.

phys.7689:

i dont know if they are ok with it…

Yeah, I just read JS’s post about how broken the economy is and his plans to fix everything…

Or maybe not. I’m pretty sure that everything he’s posted about the TP says “I’m okay with that.”

i doubt you ll be getting a dusk for 1k until something changes at the anet design side.

You mean like that thing they mentioned where you’ll be able to find/craft a precursor through some new method they haven’t revealed yet?

Jimaruto.5389:

Of course giving a precursor away to all is not a good move. :P I just gave this example (even if it is silly) just to explain how it is easy for Anet to change the market without the hands of people.

It’s very easy to destroy the market, yes. But they don’t want to do that, because the TP is an important tool for players to use.

Managing the economy is a little more complicated than you think.

TroyAP.5792:

I closed all the others and just submitted a new ticket as an update. Do you think that will help?

That just means you’ve moved to the end of the line.

Go here:

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/support/account/Tickets-for-Review-3-days-older-Part-2-merged/page/17#post4052921

Kimehcol.8742:

I took a look at the trade post and there are currently 9 “The Legend” on the trade post. this is effectively 900 dyes that are actually in demands. I’m not saying there are only 9 in the entirety of Tyria, perhaps there are a few 10-20 more out there that people are just holding out, but you get the picture; not much in demands.

Don’t go by a quick peek at the TP. Dusk sells an average of one per hour, and I would imagine TL isn’t far behind. Most sales happen through buy orders, you won’t notice a change in sales listings.

But even if there are 20 Bifrost created every day, it will still take a while to put a dent in the supply of dyes.

phys.7689:

yes the point is that they will be sold slower and more expensive to the higher earner people, and new higher earner people will replace them.

Yes, I know. Sadly, I’ll never get my Ferrari, because there’s always someone richer than me who wants it. But someday I’m going to be all over that Clearance Sale.

Oh, yes, precursors. This is intentional. Anet already knows, and they’re ok with it.

Jimaruto.5389:

But I don’t agree with your 1st paragraph. Anet of course can’t affect the trading post directly (example: buying for themsleves and selling for themselves). , but they can affect it indirectly as they have done it many times ‘till now. Example: Anet decides to give us all 1 precursor for free. Do you think that the decline in precursors’ price that will follow would be because of hands of players? Or of Anet’s action?

This kind of thing was discussed a long time ago by John Smith, and the result of such a foolish move is a broken economy. There are more costs to the Legendary than just a precursor. Making them too easy to obtain (or simply giving them away) will cause a lot of people who might want to craft a Legendary to take steps to actively make one. This drives up the costs of everything else associated with it. When demand increases 1000x overnight for T6 mats, they will disappear from the TP faster than farmers can replenish the supply.

How do you feel about paying 10g per glob of ectoplasm? Not per stack, per unit. Sellers can’t make any money from precursors when everyone already has one, so the costs will be distributed across other materials, and go upupup because of the sudden spike in demand.

Fortunately, as I said JS already knows what will happen and would never do something so stupid and short-sighted.

phys.7689:

Anet wont lose many people who buy precursors at this price, they have money to spare, or just want what they want enough to get it. They may lose other people who cant afford the items though, but thats probably pretty hard to track.

if anet was concerned about anything, i think it would be the increasing cost of precursors over time relative to earning potential.

interestingly enough, sources of income for normal players are down, and precursors prices rise. Its basically cementing precursors as a rich mans item. its not like a house, which is a long term goal, many middle class people attain, its something that dances out of their reach.

They’ll lose more players by handing out precursors like beads at Mardi Gras, players will get their shinies, have nothing new to focus on, and play another game that offers new shinies every 4-6 months.

Precursors drop for poor players, too. I think I had about 40s in my pockets when I got Dusk, it took me two weeks to save up the listing fee to sell it. Then I was a rich player too, for a little while.

You’re focusing on one side of the transaction, the guy who gets Dusk is out 1600g, but someone else is 1600g richer. Considering the number of unique sellers, a lot of them didn’t already have 1600g sitting in the bank before the sale.

phys.7689:

tolunart.2095:

phys.7689:

buy orders tend to follow sell orders in price. buy order on dusk went up abour 200 sell price went up about 300-350.

but its up to the buyers whether it sticks/this happens.

This will probably happen for any item where the difference between buy/sell prices is greater than 15%. Flippers will compete with each other to place buy orders that they can make a profit on, but once that profit disappears they’ll stop placing orders.

yeah but a decent amount of precursors are also selling to sell orders right now. there have been a number of 1400-1580 precursors sold in the last 18 hours, this suggests that the sell order price isnt a deterrent to the intended market. while some people get deals at 1240ish gold, buyers are willing to pay more. and sellers arent meeting their buy orders as fast as they d like.

That’s flipping… finding the sweet spot between getting your orders filled and selling fast enough to get the gold to place more orders.

As for the sell orders moving quickly, that’s the “need my shiny nao!” crowd at work. They are the portion of the player base driving this economy and providing someone to flip to. God bless em.

phys.7689:

while it is true it lowered demand from multiple legendary buyers, if it increased the demand so that a higher % of users are interested in the item, then it wont reduce cost very swiftly. in fact it could still be in the higher value situation.

When I say long term, think December/January, not June/July. With respect to Dusk, I think the spike is shorter term and prices will rejoin the rest of the precursors when the excitement over Eternity dies down.

remember new players are born every minute and precursors seem to be sold at a rate of 1 per hour. it will be a long time before 1 per hour reaches the bottom 60% of earning populations available cash.

note that inspite of everything precursors have continued to go up in value from game start till now. i dont really think a large % of the precursors sold were duplicates.

That will never happen, because as I said before, the average player was never meant to have a Legendary weapon. If they were, you would be able to buy them from the gem store and Anet would be pulling in tons of cash for them.

I mean, think about it. They create the most impressive and elaborate weapon skins in the game, add extra effects like footsteps and an aura, then lock them away behind 100s of hours of grinding. If they wanted anyone to have access to them, putting them in the Black Lion Chests or selling them directly like Rox’s Quiver and such would double their gem sales overnight.

The prices of any item on the TP is in the hands of players, not Anet. It doesn’t matter whether they like it or not, if the players support this price it will stay there.

Also, this is not the new price. It’s a spike due to a sharp rise in demand for reasons already discussed. The demand is driven by impatient players who want Twilight/Eternity now and don’t want to put in a reasonable buy offer and wait for it to be filled. When they get what they want, they will drop out of competition to buy Dusk and the more patient buyers will be left.

You can still place a buy order for any amount you think is fair. I believe that if you place a buy order now for Dusk at 1000g it will be filled in a month or two, after the market settles down a bit.

But if you want to make a quick few hundred gold flipping, buy at 1200 and sell for 1600 to someone who can’t wait a month.

Flytrap.8075:

DarkSpirit.7046:

I see reddit down-voting and flaming whenever someone brings up converting gem to gold through the gem store.

Good.

Rewards earned solely through gold sinks and credit card swiping are extremely lame. Call me crazy, but I like to earn things through actual gameplay; I’m glad to know that there are people out there that feel the same way I do.

Have fun playing after the servers are shut down!

phys.7689:

the only thing that will probably slow or reduce the price of precursors is greater supply, or a precursor hunt.
Oh and new legendaries.

so essentially, if they ever actually finish the precursor hunt, and release new legendaries, these will go down

however as far new legendaries are concerned, they will be super expensive and unattainable for some time.

Also, wardrobe. Legendaries are in higher demand because people want to unlock the skins and use them on multiple toons. But once you unlock the skins, you don’t need a second Incinerator to dual wield, or a Twilight for your warrior and your mesmer, so in the long term, prices should stabilize or go down.

It’s the same with Eternity, it’s “hot” right now because they updated it, but once the impatient “I need my shiny nao!” crowd is satisfied, there will be much less demand for Dusk/Dawn.

I’m hoping that they learned from experience and any new precursors/Legendary gear are account bound and cannot be traded. The system looks good on paper, but it’s more trouble than it’s worth.

phys.7689:

buy orders tend to follow sell orders in price. buy order on dusk went up abour 200 sell price went up about 300-350.

but its up to the buyers whether it sticks/this happens.

This will probably happen for any item where the difference between buy/sell prices is greater than 15%. Flippers will compete with each other to place buy orders that they can make a profit on, but once that profit disappears they’ll stop placing orders.

Leamas.5803:

It doesn’t matter greatly what the “truth” is. You may be right in that the RNG is functioning fine, but what people believe is true IS the truth until proven otherwise and A LOT of people believe the RNG is not working properly and that it favors certain accounts while other accounts are deemed unlucky. It falls on ANet to prove this otherwise, only they have the information. Just saying it’s working fine is not proof that it is indeed working fine. we’re not 5-yeaar-old children who just need a little pat on the head to reassure everything is fine. They need something a little more substantial. What that is, I don’t know, but it’s on the onus of ANet to prove this.

It falls on Anet to “prove” there is no problem? This is the only appropriate and necessary response to this bs:

(blank stare)

phys.7689:

the main difference is, that while i understand that this is the way the game is. I dont think its a good paradigm to continue as the game matures. it doesnt necessarilly have to be shinies, but the game needs to create some more goals whose focus is less based on heavy grind/gold.
.

They have done this, though the development process and the fact that they have chosen not to collect new content into a single expansion but release it over time makes it hard to see sometimes. Success is a matter of opinion, and expectations.

Fractals and ascended gear were early attempts to add rewards that were not tied to gold acquisition. Ascended crafting for the most part continues this, though being able to buy and sell some of the materials seems to be a concession to more casual players, who can turn materials they don’t have a need for into gold so the hardcores can get their shinies faster.

They added the wardrobe to be more casual friendly, you can spend a single weapon claim ticket and use the skin on multiple toons, making it less of a grind for players with alts to find good skins to use.

They changed the trait system and added new traits to give goal-oriented players something to work towards. I haven’t looked into it, so I don’t know how successful it is so far, but it shows they are listening to players’ concerns.

Many LS event rewards were account-bound and cannot be bought with gold. Minis, armor skins and such that can be collected but not traded on the TP. Mostly a casual goal, with a few exceptions, because the LS content is usually pretty simple to complete. But it gives players a way to personalize their toons without grinding for thousands of gold.

Legendaries are high profile items, but hardly the only goal in the game for players to work towards. Many changes have happend just in the last month or so, and more are coming. The main problem is impatience, players do not realize there is a process involved where devs collect and analyze data about the players, discuss their options, and have to develop and test several new systems, some of which will be discarded at some point, before deciding on what changes to make to the game. Issues that were discussed in Winter 2012 are only now making it into the game, and issues being discussed now will not be resolved for at least six months, to a year or more.

Players who see a situation like Dusk prices and expect something to be done this week will only be disappointed. It just doesn’t work like that.

Behellagh.1468:

Well most subscription based games that went F2P still have subscriptions available as VIP/Gold Club membership level that still gives you all the benefits you had when subscribing without all the paywalls they added for F2P. They still have cash shops, it’s just as a “VIP” you get a minor stipend of proxy currency for the cash shop. Just enough to be almost useful.

True, but some do it better than others. I went back to playing SWTOR for a while, it’s a good game if you consider it single player with benefits, and ignore the general chat box. Besides, I was just old enough to for my imagination to be ignited by the first Star Wars trilogy when it came out, and even almost 40 years later the bzzz bzzzzzzzzz of swinging a lightsaber makes me feel like a kid again.

I subbed for a few months because I have the extra money, and because I like the convenience perks that come with it (more character slots, appearance controls, quick travel) but I appreciate that most of them can be unlocked individually, making it a personal choice whether to pay into the game, and how much.

OTOH, traditional sub-based games have been about how to delay the inevitable and keep a person subbed longer. Gear resets and such seem to be calculated to happen just far enough apart that when the game gets boring, you have to start over again and grind out more levels, work through a new tier of raids, or collect new gear. It’s more of a stalling tactic than an attempt to improve the game.

No system is perfect, but I gave money to SWTOR of my own free will, knowing that I didn’t have to keep paying to keep playing.

phys.7689:

Hence, the disconnect for many players, who dont realize that earning gold is the actual focus of the game.

Well, this is not agreeing with me. In fact it’s pretty much the opposite of my position. My main goal in this game is to have fun, not to collect gold or buy shinies or make people jealous. Aside from the last of these, they are fun side activities, but my goal in playing the game is to have fun.

A certain part of the player base has been taught that “fun” is an endless hamster wheel-like chase after the latest shiny, and because GW2 is meant to be casual friendly most of these shinies share a lowest common denominator – they can be traded for gold.

So, if your definition of fun is “more shinies” then you’ll look for the fastest ways to make the most gold, and therefore obtain the most shinies. Since these activities are often boring, always repetitive (which eventually becomes boring for most people) and utilize a very limited part of the game world, it generally turns into not-fun very quickly.

Because I don’t care about shinies, I don’t care about gold either. I need a little for specific purposes, occasionally I make an effort to collect more for a specific goal, but I stop if I find the game becoming not-fun. I believe that this kind of play is what the game was designed for, the complaints come from those who want to remake the game into what they want, rather than accepting that this is not the kind of game they want to play.

Dark Saviour.9410:

Dark Catalyst.1028:

Welcome to the cash shop model. If this becomes the standard in MMOs, then I will no longer be playing MMOs.

This is pretty much how I feel.
I’ve always loathed the idea of cash shops and microtransactions, so its frustrating to see everyone becoming so much more accepting of these models as time goes on. It’s especially revolting to see it crop up in games that do have subscription fees, but that’s the direction things are heading…

It’s difficult to find MMOs that I can get into at all even with that factor removed, but with that being the new standard, there’s pretty much no place for me going forward… ;-\

How many subscription based games do not have a cash shop? Even WoW does.

How many subscription based games went F2P? How many still have a sub after 1-2 years?

This is already the standard. If you choose wisely, you can play the game for much less than it would cost to play a subbed game. If you choose foolishly, well, you know the saying about a fool and his money…

ZudetGambeous.9573:

I guess it just goes to show you how many dyes were actually out there and the fact that no one really needs them at this point in the games life. I mean the supply has done nothing but increase since it was removed from the loot tables.

Well, they did hand out millions of unid’d dyes for free to players with duplicate color unlocks. So the supply doubled, tripled, or more overnight. Not sure if the giveaway expires, if not then future returning players could find they have dozens to hundreds of bonus dyes sitting in their bags.

phys.7689:

you are the one who said its purpose is to be a rare motivating item that keeps people playing, i didnt disagree with you. Now you say its not supposed to motivate people.
ok

This is what I said:

“Yes, Legendary weapons were never meant for “the average player.” The way MMOs are designed, there have to be rare, hard to obtain items to motivate some players to keep logging in. A fair number of players stop playing, or at least play a lot less often, after obtaining a Legendary because they lack a long-term goal to work towards.”

Some, a fair number, not for the average player.

This is far from saying that Legendaries are there to motivate everyone. They are motivation for hardcore players, just as ascended gear was intended to motivate hardcore players who want to move up to high level fractals, but it is not necessary for open world content.

The casual player can enjoy the game just fine without either. The complaints against ascended/Legendary gear are based in misconceptions and therefore are invalid. I don’t complain about the price of luxury cars and yahts, because I know that they were never intended for someone like me.

phys.7689:

yup, and this rare motivating item is designed around how much more you can earn in gold over other players. Hence, the disconnect for many players, who dont realize that earning gold is the actual focus of the game.

I don’t accept this as a legitimate argument.

I am not motivated to create a Legendary, and I don’t believe most of the casual players are either. There’s a large enough number who want them, yes, but it’s not the central focus of the game.

This is why they were not designed to be obtained through casual play. They are not intended for casual players. They never will be obtainable through casual play, because the players they are intended for will be offended by this.

For me, gathering gold is an intermediary step towards a specific goal, such as gearing up a new alt that just hit 80. And I can do this just fine by playing the game, I geared up many characters by doing the world bosses in the 1-15 zones every day and selling the loot I got. That represents about an hour out of my day, the rest of my time was spent doing things I enjoyed.

I don’t think you are capable of understanding that how you see the game is not how everyone sees the game.

DaveGan.8065:

ANet could (not necessarily “should”) similarly implement measures to allow more of the player base to contribute to and gain from legendary weapons being made. One idea I offered earlier in the thread would be to cut the drop rate of the precursors while introducing “fragments” (dropping at a considerably higher rate and/or salvaged from rares/exotics) that could be combined into the real thing.

As I’ve said in my last post, discussions like this are pointless because Anet already knows what the new method for getting a precursor will be. However, we’ve already seen something similar introduced into the game, so I can tell you what would happen with your idea.

Besides gearing alts and tossing into the MF, rares and exotics already have a high demand for salvaging into crafting mats, ectos, dark matter. Essences of Luck were added to fine and masterwork (blue and green) gear because there was little demand for them and the TP was stuffed with cheap gear. Rares and exotics move pretty quickly already, so adding “Essence of Legendary” to their salvage results would increase demand at least as much as blues and green went up when Luck was first introduced.

This means that the TP would quickly empty of any rare or exotic equipment as players rushed to complete their precursors, and new items would be listed at a much higher price than they are now. New players and players with alts to gear up would not be able to afford to buy rare/exotic equipment to use let alone salvage for a precursor. The prices of mithril, ori, etc. would crash as an unwanted side effect of salvaging for EoLeg.

Wealthy players and those who moved quickly to buy up the supply and flip will get their precursors quickly, while “the average player” is again left behind. Rares and exotics don’t drop that quickly outside of a few events, depending on the amount of EoLeg needed it could take the average player weeks or months to obtain a precursor, while the wealthy players have theirs within days.

Other than harming the rare/exotic markets (people who actually want to use the gear can’t get any) this doesn’t change the situation at all, you need to grind a lot of gold to get your precursor quickly, and when there are thousands of new Twilights running around the open world, doing it the hard way just makes players feel bad.

DaveGan.8065:

tolunart.2095:

Yes, Legendary weapons were never meant for “the average player.”

Ascended gear was not meant for the average player either, but the design of ascended gear crafting allows the casual players to contribute to and profit from it by selling their unneeded time-gated mats to the more hardcore players.

ANet could (not necessarily “should”) similarly implement measures to allow more of the player base to contribute to and gain from legendary weapons being made. One idea I offered earlier in the thread would be to cut the drop rate of the precursors while introducing “fragments” (dropping at a considerably higher rate and/or salvaged from rares/exotics) that could be combined into the real thing.

They’ve been working on the new process for over a year, it’s safe to say that by now they’ve decided what it will be – they just can’t tell the players yet.

The project has been pushed back, not deleted. It could not be released now due to the changes caused by new features like the wardrobe – these things have already had an effect on the game’s economy, as did the ascended crafting twice before. If this also involves crafting or other items sold on the TP, 200,000 players suddenly saying “hey, I can make a precursor!” would destroy it right now.

So, demands for Anet to “do something” are pointless. Because they have access to the data regarding player behavior, and they know what this new method will be, they have determined that it would be bad for the game to put it in right now. The devs have to consider the game as a whole, not a handful of vocal complainers on the forums who don’t care if the game burns to the ground around them, as long as they get their shinies.

Zaxares.5419:

That said, I think there is some merit to the complaints from players who are steadily working towards a Legendary, only to see the price of Precursors keep going up. Having a long-term goal to work towards is great! What’s less great is if those goal posts keep moving due to factors outside your control.

Craftable or Scavenger Hunt Precursors should solve those complaints, although we don’t have any idea when that will come about.

Granted, that’s why they began working on it over a year ago. Major changes can take a long time to implement, like the wardrobe and trait changes. In this case, Anet cannot really do anything because it’s the players themselves who determine the prices of precursors. If Anet made them drop more often prices wouldn’t necessarily drop much – prices of other mats would skyrocket instead because a greater number of players would see a precursor drop and be inspired to create a Legendary, increasing demand for other items.

And as I’ve said before, I don’t expect the new process to be easier or faster than the current methods. So I don’t think the players who are frustrated and impatient now will suddenly be satisfied, more likely there will be an entirely new wave of complaints.

LordByron.8369:

You are just using your usual way to derail arguments.

Logic.

phys.7689:

tolunart.2095:

What we know is that the demand for Dusk is high enough to support the current prices. This is because of the wardrobe system and the recent upgrade of Eternity’s graphic effects. More people want Twilight/Eternity and therefore there are more people trying to outspend each other.

This is a natural consequence of changes that were made to the game, not manipulation. If players say “1500g for a precursor is too much” then Dusk would not be selling at that price. Yes, that means if someone is willing to spend more money than you, or has more money to spend than you, then you will not get the item. Anet can do nothing about this, it is purely the result of the willingness of players to spend more money than everyone else.

anet designed an item with a means of obtaining it that is only marketed to those who can make the most as you say, which means dusk is a rich mans weapon until the rich get bored with it.
as the differnce in wealth grows, so to will the attainability of this item for the non wealthy.

Yes, Legendary weapons were never meant for “the average player.” The way MMOs are designed, there have to be rare, hard to obtain items to motivate some players to keep logging in. A fair number of players stop playing, or at least play a lot less often, after obtaining a Legendary because they lack a long-term goal to work towards.

Which is why the situation is not going to change – Anet intended Legendaries to be hard to get, the fact that they remain hard to get is not a problem. If you want one, be prepared to work for it. If you don’t want to work for it, be prepared to never have one.

It looks like someone has access to your email account. Change the email password immediately, to start with.

Zaxares.5419:

That’s true as far as GW2 is concerned. Although you do have games like EVE Online, where a player’s actions could result in the loss of thousands of real world dollars.

Yeah, I file that game under “must have more money than brains.”

What we know is that the demand for Dusk is high enough to support the current prices. This is because of the wardrobe system and the recent upgrade of Eternity’s graphic effects. More people want Twilight/Eternity and therefore there are more people trying to outspend each other.

This is a natural consequence of changes that were made to the game, not manipulation. If players say “1500g for a precursor is too much” then Dusk would not be selling at that price. Yes, that means if someone is willing to spend more money than you, or has more money to spend than you, then you will not get the item. Anet can do nothing about this, it is purely the result of the willingness of players to spend more money than everyone else.

Zaxares.5419:

People do occasionally waste huge amounts of in-game money just to screw with markets or “for the lulz” though.

Well, yeah, it’s a game, not real life.

phys.7689:

actually random samples are a method of statistics as well, when your random sample shows info not consistent with what you expect you then begin a more detailed analysis, QC of many products work like this.
Anyhow even if one can claim anectdotal evidence may be invalid, its a lot more valid than 0 data.

It’s not a random sample. Posters saying this are not server hopping, surveying random users and collecting results, they’re talking about friends, guildies, comments in general chat… and most of the data is useless because it’s false.

I remember a while back someone posted that he almost never dies in this game, and JS responded by looking up their # of deaths so far this year or something – a number in the hundreds or thousands. People don’t always remember things correctly, or deliberately lie for various reasons, and interpret things the way they want them to be.

The only ones qualified to make a judgement on the precursor drop rate are the devs, who can actually look up the numbers of items dropped, sold, bought, salvaged, etc. Vague comments in chat don’t prove anything, and are not reliable data for drawing any conclusions at all.

Lilith Ajit.6173:

…they’re sillier than I thought.

This is generally true. I’ve tried to underestimate the average person, but so far I’ve always failed.

DaveGan.8065:

People are not complaining about the cost of the precursor. They are complaining about the inflation and the variance. Remove even one of these factors and 99% of the complaints will disappear.

No, they are complaining because someone else has the extremely rare item that they want but don’t have. The only way to make this complaint go away is to give them the item. The irony is that if you give everyone who complains the item, it’s not rare any more and becomes far less valuable. It’s just another exotic that sells for 2g and change on the TP now. So they’ll complain that giving those other people the extremely rare item too devalued the item until there is no prestige involved in having it.

So, what they are really asking is that Anet gives me me me and only me that rare item so they can make other people as jealous as they are now. Not going to happen.

Rising Dusk.2408:

My contempt is with the fact that there are only two ways to get these blasted things. I RNG it from a random drop, or I RNG it from the Mystic Forge. That’s it… grinding out gold…

3 is the new 2?

Leamas.5803:

There is enough anecdotal evidence to show there are issues with the RNG.

Argument fails right there. At any given moment there are tens of thousands of people, at least, playing this game. “Look at these twelve people, this proves RNG is broken,” doesn’t even begin to offer enough data to do anything.

Lilith Ajit.6173:

I know I can wait and all that. I have 2 legendaries as it is and over the course of my playtime have had 6 precursors drop. I know. The issue is that in the same amount of playtime, I’m just not getting anything… My enjoyment of the game is somewhat contingent on whether I get some loot or not. If i don’t think I’m going to get anything I might as well stay in DR RPing. Which I do.

Congrats on the drops. Random distribution via computer is as close as anything gets to being fair, the computer doesn’t have friends or enemies to reward or punish. The way our minds work, however, looks for patterns even when there is no pattern to find. So many of those arguing against random precursor drops and such do so from the assumptions that it’s not “fair,” that they are “cursed” and will never see a precursor drop, etc.

Good to see you understand this is not the case.

Lilith Ajit.6173:

I just know my loot has gone down so I am getting much less awesome than I used to. This makes me a sad Asura. I can’t afford the chaos gun I want. That sucks.

Keep at it. Several things can happen:

You’ll save up enough money to get one.
The market will shift and the price will drop to what you have already set aside.
New precursors/Legendaries will be introduced and the old ones will drop in price due to decreased demand.
An alternate method of obtaining a precursor will be introduced, depending on the specifics you may reach that goal quickly just because you have been playing the game.
You’ll get a precursor as a random drop, and if it’s not the one you want, you can sell it to buy the chaos gun.

Dusk dropped for me randomly last year, so I know that it can happen. Personally, I don’t care at all about Legendaries, the added graphics annoy me and the skins themselves are not that impressive. And I couldn’t care less whether or not people get jealous or are impressed when I walk by them and leave glowing footprints or shoot unicorns past their heads or whatever.

So I sold it and used the gold to gear up several alts and get the things I did want. I have sixteen toons and not one of them has anything more valuable than Tier 2 cultural armor, because I only buy the gear I like. I’ve played long enough and made enough gold just by playing the game that if I concentrated on one or two toons, I could fill at least three or four weapon slots with Legendaries. But variety is more important to me so I divide my efforts among many different toons.

MithranArkanere.8957:

I don’t. I preview and try to make up something else instead.

If synonyms of “feces” like “crap” or “bull poo” won’t do, then I would say something creative like “dolyak manure” (e.g.: “That’s a big stinking pile of dolyak manure, and you know it”)

Kittens are something you have in your house lying around eating food and chasing bugs. Not something that should be used to replace word considered “inappropriate” in a forum.

That’s insulting and disrespectful towards cats.

I think the idea was to replace offensive attention-seeking behavior with the most opposite-sounding term possible, and the mental image that comes from someone saying “You’re such a kitten!” seemed to fit.

I type it out, I try not to resort to f-bombing in the first place because it lacks class and imagination, but it’s pretty amusing to toss around a few kittens now and then. And recently I posted “dolyak pudding!” in response to someone’s kittening, and the ten year old in me thought that was hilarious.

Donut.6437:

My whole argument was how poop isn’t an inappropriate reference to human anatomy or bodily functions. Anyways, I don’t know how to use tickets, or if I have any. I will try to find out.

Your argument is invalid. Naming policy is very clear, CS agents are currently overwhelmed with legitimate issues, I hope you will not waste their time arguing that you should be able to name your character after feces.

Lilith Ajit.6173:

I’m not entirely sure how this is a reply to me.

“Nerfing loot” is not to blame for anything. Handing out too much loot, perhaps. But my point is that prices are completely the responsibility of the players, not Anet. The more players who grind, the more loot is generated, the higher prices climb. This is because there are a limited number of rare items (precursors, Fused skins, Grinning Shield, etc.) and a lot of people competing for them.

The entire system is driven by players. Blaming Anet is like saying “rain makes the poppies grow, drug dealers harvest the poppies and make drugs, therefore Nature is responsible for the drug problem.”

Prices are high because players want rare items. Hand every player a precursor of his choice and the majority of players will be disappointed because suddenly every third player has Twilight or Bifrost or whatever, and no one feels special.

Dondarrion.2748:

So, are you better off selling your stock of unid dyes now or hang on to them? Or use them in hopes of getting expensive rare ones?

I’m not rich, I only managed to buy three stacks of them. I opened two and sent one to my wife. I got some nice uncommon and rare dyes to add to my collection, and made my money back by selling the valuable rares.

Leamas.5803:

tolunart.2095:

The market is player driven and the value of an item is set by the players, not Anet. They set a minimum value (vendor price) to most items, but the maximum value is whatever any player is willing to pay.

Yes, the market is player driven, but the supply is manipulated by ANet through various means. Saying a 10g item is worth 1000g because people will pay that for doesn’t make it worth 1000g. It points to a supply problem and this IS controlled by ANet.

Players want them because they are rare. They are rare because they rarely drop. If they commonly drop they are not rare. Because they are not rare people don’t want them.

There are dozens of greatsword models, pick another one if you can’t afford Dusk.

Mckeone.9804:

demand > supply. JS just showed us that the demand is genuine. Start forging dungeon exos?

Yep, Eternity is hot. Start MF’ing greatswords, get rich.

Leamas.5803:

I said most…unless you employ unsavory methods of attaining gold…gem store, grinding, or flipping. Very few people, unless they’re lucky (Not me for sure), can make enough with just straight gameplay to keep up with these prices. When I started getting close (Being withing a couple hundred gold) to The Legend, this was when it was at 500g, it jumped to 700g, when I started getting close, it jumped to 800-900, then I abandoned it and now it’s well over 1200.

And I said:

What you’re saying is that prices are rising faster than you can make money.

That’s how the game is played.

Lilith Ajit.6173:

It’s a very great thing, the TP. flipping isn’t even the problem here. It’s the nerfs to overall loot, in my humble uneducated opinion.

The market is player driven and the value of an item is set by the players, not Anet. They set a minimum value (vendor price) to most items, but the maximum value is whatever any player is willing to pay.

Say Anet created a minipet: a penguin that would follow you around bearing a flag that says [charname] IS AWESOME. They only spawned 10 of these minis and put them on the TP for 1g each. Within minutes all 10 would be bought and relisted for hundreds of gold each, only to bought again and relisted for thousands, until the price grew beyond the capacity for anyone to pay for them.

What are these items really worth?

Leamas.5803:

tolunart.2095:

The only solution is to keep getting more money until you’re the one throwing the biggest pile of money at it.

The problem is that prices are rising faster than most people can make money. Unless you buy gems (ANet’s preferred method, of course), which is bad for the economy, grind your life away, which ANet says they don’t want you to do, or play the TP, which is also bad for the economy and just another form of grind…just more boring.

Where do you get that idea?

An item won’t sell if no one has the gold to buy it. I can list a white level 0 dagger for 2 million gold if I can afford the listing fee. But who’s going to buy it?

58 Dusk sold recently to 58 different people. If no one can afford to buy them, they wouldn’t have been sold.

What you’re saying is that prices are rising faster than you can make money. If so, you have two choices: either reevaluate your goals in the game to match the effort you can give it, or learn how to make more money. The game isn’t going to bend itself to your will.

Lilith Ajit.6173:

tolunart.2095:

Lilith Ajit.6173:

If there isn’t a Joan Smith I’d be willing to step up to that task.

Anyway dusk… yeah that’s an insane sell order. But ain’t nobody got gold fo that.

There are quite a few players who can afford 2k for a precursor. But why would they when they can place a buy order for 800g less and still get the item within a few hours?

My Joke was lost on you. How sad.

Then you need to work on your delivery.