Showing Posts For toomuchtatose.6874:
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Fact: the difference between Masterwork and exotic is FAR greater than the difference between Exotic to Ascended.
Fact: I am wearing Masterwork gear and can beat players in Exotic gear quite easily.,,
The difference in stats is hardly that much and an 8% increase in stats does not make you 8% stronger. When I upgrade my dps gear from Masterwork to Exotic I hardly notice a difference besides a few extra hit points and a barely noticible change in damage.
What is your point?
Exotic is always better than Masterwork. And you just happen to be better some some players.
Bringing ego into a discussion …
The point should have been quite obvious. Skill > gear. Always has and always will, at least in Guild Wars. The slight increase in stats is nothing to cry over because it’s not going to make any noticible difference in the end. It’s basically giving you one, and maybe two, exotic jewels worth of stats total and that isn’t worth all the QQ on the forums.
Not to invalidate any points made.
I thought the argument is always about equipment? Nobody in the right mind will bring masterwork equips to WvW when he/she can craft/TP rares/exotics.
The OP didn’t ask a question about whether it is worthy to grind Ascended gear for WvW. If Ascended gear is easy to acquire, why not?
Exotics are easy to obtain, Legendaries aren’t. Ascended will be more difficult to obtain than Exotics, but not as hard as Legendary items, thus providing less of a jump in time consumption required to get said items.
You are pretty optimistic, thats all I can say. None of his statements are tangible.
“Ascended and infusion rewards will be available in both PvE and WvW over time”
How long to implement? Consider there are still outstanding WvW issues…"
So where are the WvW people going to do in the meantime?
How can balance be achieved for WvW with Ascended gears and with infusion?
“We will not be adding a new tier of gear every 3 months that we expect everyone to chase after and then get the next set and so on.”
Adding new tier of gear every 3 months = insane. Nobody in the right mind will agree to that.
Gear Necessity applies to the need to get Ascended gear to do new content (such as the dungeons) or to become more competitive in WvW.
They never specify Ascended gear = 2nd highest tier. Pessimists will perceive higher tiers incoming in the near future.
“Our goal is not to create a gear treadmill. Our goal is to ensure we have a proper progression for players from exotic up to legendary without a massive jump in reward between the two.” In other words, Exotics are easy to obtain, Legendaries aren’t. Ascended will be more difficult to obtain than Exotics, but not as hard as Legendary items, thus providing less of a jump in time consumption required to get said items.
Just make Foefire essence or whatever exotics (which have crazy mat requirements) Ascended and let them be infusable. Easy peasy, makes exotic > legendary grind more proper.
The “Reward” = stats? Let the gear grind begin!
(edited by toomuchtatose.6874)
They will probably scale Ascension gear to Exotic while in WvWvW.
No. No they won’t.
WvW needs a thorough revamp… maybe they keep stats separate… gonna anger more people haha
What has Simplicity and Functionality has to do with this?
I think most people who are most passionate about GW2 are those who want to get away from other MMOs.
Fact: the difference between Masterwork and exotic is FAR greater than the difference between Exotic to Ascended.
Fact: I am wearing Masterwork gear and can beat players in Exotic gear quite easily.
The difference in stats is hardly that much and an 8% increase in stats does not make you 8% stronger. When I upgrade my dps gear from Masterwork to Exotic I hardly notice a difference besides a few extra hit points and a barely noticible change in damage.
What is your point?
Exotic is always better than Masterwork. And you just happen to be better some some players.
Bringing ego into a discussion …
“Gear Treadmill” to me means that you never stop getting gear, ever. Mainly this applies to needing upgrades to do further content.
So far I need Ascended gear and I need to slot it to go the farthest in the new dungeon. This in-it’s-self is not the “treadmill” yet. It’ll become a “treadmill” depending on how fast they opt to release new tiers and/or if they opt to add more dungeons with unique debuffs to be buffed against. If they opt to add more dungeons with the same debuff and more Ascended gear, it’ll still be the same pace as before. IE Not a “treadmill”.
So until they start cranking out updates that keep making things obsolete, there is no “treadmill”.
Why use exotic when ascended is better for generalists unless you are running exotic only builds? Unless they cap the stats for newer equipments, older equipments are always obsolete.
Updates should be slower I agree, this makes it less of a treadmill (but still a treadmill if stats upgrades/gating are involved).
Imagine because of RL issues you had to leave and return back to GW2 2 months later – found yourself immediately being kicked out of most level 80 groups just because you lack certain equipment, you grind for it so that you are able to join the groups, or find that most level 70-80 zones are lifeless except some of the newer zones you never see before… that kind of feeling, you have to do “/map LFG for (ascended) SM” or something like that.
tl;dr. ANet has not clarified that Ascended Gear is the final tier before Legendary tier, people are not guaranteed to get equipment plateau – This is essentially Gear Treadmill.
Except that they did clarify that they won’t, and it’s still not a gear treadmill. Lieing won’t change anything.
I’m not lying. There are nothing from ANet that says this is the last tier before Legendary. You owe me the burden of proof.
If you want to quote: “We will not be adding a new tier of gear every 3 months that we expect everyone to chase after and then get the next set and so on.” Don’t bother
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Alot of you people seem to think this is something of a “knee-jerk” reaction from Anet, i see it differently though.
From my mmo collective (we are present in most of todays mmorpg’s) we had about 30 people trying out gw2, out of those 30 there is not a single one left playing and the only reason behind that is the lack of endgame content, you can only do so many alt’s before it get’s old, and as there is no endgame apart from wvwvw (if you are in any half decent guild getting your chosen pve set takes about 3-7 days at the outmost) people started trickling off (especially those that disliked the pvp).
Here’s the thing though, ALL of us loved the game, its just the lack of endgame content that made us go do something else (while waiting for thing’s to pick up in GW2)
But i think that’s the beauty of gw2 actually, there’s no subscription fee so gw2 can (and most likely will) be the “other” mmorpg that you play on the side while waiting for content in your “main” mmorpg.
That’s how it turned out for us at least.
In your case you can enjoy more with “your other mmorpgs” while stop provoking “lack of end-game content” with whiney and fanatical GW2 forum community.
Well, for some of us we have a real life, GW2 promises we can have “our life” while having our own way of playing the MMO.
I have invested more than 100hrs into the game (5 toons) and yet to have a level 80 character – My playstyle is just different from you, I like to explore, play WvW and SPvP now and then, I don’t believe in end-game, I believe in the Journey to the end.
(edited by toomuchtatose.6874)
*tl;dr Lost Shores is probably not introducing a Gear Treadmill.
(….)
The guarantee. If you are guaranteed to get what you’re chasing it’s not a gear treadmill, period.
*In response:
tl;dr. ANet has not clarified that Ascended Gear is the final tier before Legendary tier, people are not guaranteed to get equipment plateau – This is essentially Gear Treadmill.*
This has nothing to do with Gear Grind – Grinding for Legendaries is crazy but acceptable for long-term players. But treadmilling = lowballing all sorts of MMO players.
(edited by toomuchtatose.6874)
If the hole is as hard to find as the jump puzzle entrance I’d be kitten XD
WvW exotics are pretty good for melee toons, especially for someone who has no idea what to spec. Power/Toughness/Vitality.
Trahearne is a first-born and was tasked at birth to clean Orr.
Kinda like born from royalty and commoners (players) have to clean up after him.
Kormir takes the cake though.
There’s a rare piece, once you got the complete set of Memoires.
I only remember a blue (Fine) and a green (Masterwork) back piece from the Mad King event.
Those are the only two back pieces. There was no rare or exotic one.
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Back
So I have no idea what people are mention an exotic or rare back piece when there wasn’t one. Unless they happened to see the rare one that someone transmuted linked in chat (they used the guild back piece)
My bad, it is the Fine and Masterwork. I must have confused the quality with the orange fire of the masterwork equipment.
ANet did not come out and say:
This is the final tier before legendary
I fear the unknown, I guess thats fear of ever-growing-powerful equipments/monsters and time I need to enjoy GW2. Is that fearing the power creep?
Guild Wars 2 is an attempt to make money, by “marketing” itself as not making money via subscription.
They have to make money via the one-time purchase (plus planned expansions) as well as microtransactions.
To do good in microtransactions: Content management becomes more critical, economy and vanity management (dyes, costumes, models) becomes a tool to sustain revenue.
Subscription based games may lack competencies in such management, but can build upon “loyalty” from subscribers who see themselves as deeply entrenched into the next billing cycle.
I think she meant complementary, as in they are rolling out/introducing new Ascended and Legendary items that complement/go along with this new content. She also uses the word “earn” to describe the rest of the (non Ascended/Legendary) gear of lower tiers, so it follows that you are also supposed to “earn” the Ascended/Legendary pieces. Also note that she talks about both “Ascended and Legendary” as one package – they are not giving out free Legendaries, which is what that phrase implies.
Honestly it makes complete sense to me in the context that she meant to say complementary. Certainly more sense than complimentary.
/spelling and grammar lesson over lol
Edit: Also, wasn’t the Mad King back piece only Masterwork and not Exotic?
There’s a rare piece, once you got the complete set of Memoires.
Had to log in to my Char to get close enough to translate the top, and my Asura for the fine print at the bottom, boy was that hard even then to get the fine print. Must have been an Asura Lawyer who wrote it.
True, true. Asura Lawyers will never want others to read the fine prints XD.
There is in fact every reason to think they will….
[quotes description of various infusion types]I think there’s every reason to expect proliferation of new upgrades like these, which is fine. That doesn’t necessarily mean escalation: if new upgrades are kept situational and focused on a specific, different area of content (the way this set of upgrades is really useful only in the fractals), then you can add new mechanics and gear types til the cows come home without unbalancing the core game or obsoleting existing content.
If we have more and more gear slots that can fit infusions we will have more and more resistance to agony, meaning they will have to increase the effects of agony in new dungeons for it to be relevant.
If new dungeons are introduced that have a different type of debuff that we then need to get a new resistance to, what would stop us from fitting the new infusions into our old infusion slots? also that would make the old dungeons obsolete?
No matter what it sounds pretty messy to me.
It is just fire-resist, chill-resist kind of thing. You know…. Oh wait, my exotics are unable to be infused….
*vendors them.
Power creep is a way (intentional or not) for developers to stall the player base with meaningless content (not new or innovative content – just more of the same with higher numbers) while they crank out something that is actually new or creative, something that will actually add to or extend the life of the game. It’s a poor way of doing things that lacks imagination and creativity or even effort in most cases – but unfortunately it makes money, and even game companies are businesses. And this is their job, and they’re going to select the best and most efficient routes to get players to purchase their game.
Strange thing is that they should have done the Ascended thing either during launch, or much later in game when the player base has been well-invested into the game. It could possibly be part of the expansion for level 80~100 equipment. This makes alot of sense considering we have rare from level 40 onwards and exotic from level 60 onwards.
8% increase per item. 26% increase for whole set. This is going by stat budget math others have put much work into already to compute. 26% is a massive change in gear power. This not even factoring in how much they are buffin legendaries. You scoff at such marginal increases but when you put it all together, it may very well trump any rune combination if you are focusing on only pure stats in those slots (like I do). Best part is you get an extra slot to help you in PvE and whos to say they won’t eventually cave in, letting you use runes there in the future.
Wrong because those “estimates” do not account for upgrade slots….
8% comes from non-infused Ascended Ring versus fully upgraded Exotic Ring.
I wonder how much more once infusion comes in (worse: if they add sigil/rune slot to Ascended ones).
I’m going back to the OP’s post to give my answer on what I think about the ascended gear.
The purpose of the gear, mainly is so that your armor is infused so that you will be able to mitigate the damage done by Agony in the new dungeon. However, since the dungeon slowly scales over time, you will be able to progress some through the dungeon before you even need ascended gear. And the new pieces (a ring and a back item) are supposed to drop in this dungeon. Makes sense to me.
I have read some concern from people that the ascended armor will make the dungeon armor sets obsolete. But the original intent of the dungeon armor sets was for cosmetic purposes, so how does the new armor make them obsolete?
People enjoyed collecting the Mad King items from Halloween. They will have fun slowly over time collecting the Ascended pieces as they are released. The stat differences are not that great, they don’t even have runes in them so that’s why the stats on them are slightly increased. The increased stats make up for the lack of a rune slot. And the infused slot is to help mitigate agony and whatever else they think we need to get through the new dungeon.
Everyone please calm down. Wait until after Lost Shores is released and you have spent the 3 days of the event participating it and trying it out for yourself before you form opinions about how awful this is. I know people don’t like change. But this may well end up being something truly fun for GW2. You won’t know until you try it.
Nah, the problem only lies with the stats on Ascended Gear better than upgraded exotics – Nothing more nothing less. Even Mad King’s items are not obviously superior to superior sigils/exotics.
Is it possible for games to maintain a sense of personal progress without tying that progress to an investment in gear numbers?
Creativity and innovation say “yes.”
No, accountants and execs who look at the numbers in the MMO market currently say “yes”. Because WoW is huge, and the entire market is catering to a single design decision — tiered gear progression.
There’s plenty of other ways to go about it. In fact there’s nothing that says a different type of game can’t be bigger than WoW. Fact is, nobody’s even tried. GW2 was trying — and IMO they were succeeding — but they’re waving the flag of surrender.
Long and short of it? No, there’s other ways of doing it, but no, we’ll never see them. Game industry is ridiculously risk-averse at the moment — RIDICULOUSLY risk-averse, that’s why some certain companies are only producing sequels to existing franchises right now — and the MMO market is even more risk-averse (my completely uneducated guess is because it’s a riskier investment, it’s a larger thing to make and maintain and the accountants and execs get their fingers into things tighter and force “safe” decisions more frequently which is code for “copy this other game that did well”).
So sir, while your answer wins on snark points, it loses on reality points — there hasn’t been any serious challenge to the gear-treadmill paradigm since… GW1. And this. But they gave up. So no, friend, innovation doesn’t say “yes” — no MMO since WoW has really been very creative or innovative, merely emulative.
Makes me a saaaaad panda
No need to be sad, it happens in real life too – in work in school and in relationships XD
Never ending dungeons is going to rock, truely. Because it satisfy those hardcore gamers who think everything is toooooo easy in game, while leaving other casual gamers to their own devices.
Just hoped that early dungeon instances should be easy for those on low leveled armor characters and/or people with dexterity issues XD
Seriously guys they are adding ONE new tier to items! ONE! They have already said that they will not be adding more.
No they haven’t.
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/info/news/A-message-from-our-Studio-Design-Director-Chris-Whiteside “We will not be adding a new tier of gear every 3 months that we expect everyone to chase after and then get the next set and so on.” I rest my case…
I rest his case.
Lol sounds like you need to go back to school they said: “We will not be adding a new tier of gear every 3 months that we expect everyone to chase after and then get the next set and so on.” Which also means after 3 months there still wont be any new tiers…..
Nah no new tiers, but more types of infusion based thingies which (+Ascended gear) makes runes/sigils/etc. obsolete.
Item progression rules
legendaries are item progression, legendaries are stronger than exotic weapons, and it’s fun to *Grind them.*thats all i’ve to say.
Stop lying.
At this moment Legendaries are not stronger than exotic weapons.
Grinding is Optional now.
ANet is making Legendaries Mandatory if you want to be competitive after this patch.
Vocal minority actually think, and has memories, and OP just label them as crybabies.
Credibility, people. They quoted Radiance from LOTRO, Attunement from WoW, Ascended item stats > Exotic item stats /w upgrades…
Whats more OP need? OP needs the broader view that complainers really want NEW CONTENT, but not BRAIN DEAD and SHALLOW content (increased stats). If people want a number game they can play other MMOs.
Look at this.
And copy-pasting it for those too lazy to follow the link.
Our Studio Design Director Chris Whiteside just posted this:
“I’d like to respond to concerns players have raised about ascended items. Please keep in mind that we’re releasing this as one portion of a massive November update that introduces and improves many aspects of challenge, progression, and rewards. With this and upcoming updates, we view ourselves as introducing large amounts of content with supporting systems and features, akin to an expansion pack, building on Guild Wars 2 through a series of live releases. So it’s important for us to be able to add an expansion pack’s worth of progression and rewards to support that content.
Our goal is not to create a gear treadmill. Our goal is to ensure we have a proper progression for players from exotic up to legendary without a massive jump in reward between the two. We will slowly add the remaining ascended gear items and legendary items in future updates to allow people time to acquire them as we add exciting new content that deserves exciting rewards. We will not be adding a new tier of gear every 3 months that we expect everyone to chase after and then get the next set and so on.
Ascended and infusion rewards will be available in both PvE and WvW over time, and be made available through all sorts of content around the world including existing content. PvP will remain unaffected to ensure our intended PvP balance going forward. We are also working on other reward and progression systems for the game that tie into current and new content and features. As you know we care very much about your support and opinion and are listening intently to what you say.
Finally we look forward to hearing your thoughts on the upcoming content, and we will ensure we share our thoughts with you on the experiences we share in the Lost Shores."Chris Whiteside – Studio Design Director
Now please stop your complaining. Thanks.
<em>“Finally we look forward to hearing your thoughts on the upcoming content, and we will ensure we share our thoughts with you on the experiences we share in the Lost Shores.”</em>
Complaints are also thoughts, they NEED to hear our complaints.
Anet! Know your player base.
We don’t like gear progressing period.Implementing Ascended Gears and you will lose majority of your player base
or
Not implementing Ascended Gears and we will all be happy customers.It’s easy as that.
Or they can implement Ascended Gears which has same stats as Exotics, but uses infusion instead of runes/sigils/jewels/etc.
You are all incredibly infuriating.
Calm down. You are all making wild assumptions and accusations with literally zero basis.
Needing ascended gear to do anything in Fractals? No evidence that this is the case.
Taking a break and coming back to find you can’t do anything because gear is outdated? No evidence this will be the case.
Ascended Armor being more powerful than Exotics? No evidence that this is the case. Because if it’s going to work like the accessories, then you can’t put runes on them and there are stats on runes that are simply miles ahead of a few extra raw stat points.
Gated content? No evidence this will be the case.
I like wild conjecture as much as the next guy but you guys are being some of the most whiny, self-entitled and generally unpleasant people I have ever seen on any MMO forum. By all means continue battering the developers that are giving you all of this content for free.
ANet please don’t listen to these idiots and do whatever you want because contrary to popular belief, this is your game and it doesn’t belong to these ridiculous whiners.
https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/linsey-murdock-unveils-new-high-end-ascended-gear/
Please see the picture and do the math. Thank You.
From the picture there’s +5 difference in power.
Every 20 stats = 1% increment in actual combat.
Each gear only makes you 0.25% stronger.+11 full ascended is (0.25 × 11) = 2.75% stronger than exotic.
If exotic does 1000 dmg. Ascended does 1028 dmg. 28 dmg increase.Only 2.75% stronger and 100 over pages of complaints.
Amazing.Although 2.75% is insignificant, dedicated players still feel a sense of progression and rewarded. The point is to feel like there isn’t a wall to progression. Some sense of progression is needed in every mmorpg. It needs to constantly evolve to keep player anticipated. If not, it’s the same as console game with an ending.
Casual players can stick to their exotic without worries. Majority casuals are still going to stick with exotic. Why are people worried about this? It’s not like you must have ascended to pvp in WvWvW or PVE. You can experience 100% fun content with exotic and it’s so easily acquired. Gear treadmill forces you that you must have it and grind repetitively until you quit. Therefore, it’s not a gear treadmill. It’s a progression that’s optional for endgamers. The game musn’t only cater for casual players. It’s catering towards both casual and dedicated.Players should experience the game first.
Who knows? The process of getting it isn’t like any traditional mmo grind.
I heard the new dungeon is pretty random and not the repetitive grind types.It doesn’t hurt to give it a try. They made an effort for you.
Players should appreciate it.
100 over pages of complaints <<< GW2 players already had bad experiences with other MMOs, 100 over pages of complaints must mean some kitten.
Casual players can stick to their exotic without worries <<< Be prepared to die alot more in dungeon or be kicked out of ‘non-casual’ groups.
Majority casuals are still going to stick with exotic <<< Some still stick with masterwork accessories because exotic accessories = EXPENSIVE.
Why are people worried about this? It’s not like you must have ascended to pvp in WvWvW or PVE <<< You need to be ascended in order to Enjoy the full Content.
You can experience 100% fun content with exotic and it’s so easily acquired <<< Exotics can’t be infused, so you are GATED.
Gear treadmill forces you that you must have it and grind repetitively until you quit.
Therefore, it’s not a gear treadmill. It’s a progression that’s optional for end-gamers. <<< Today’s end-game equips is tomorrow’s obsolete equips, this is gear treadmill
The game musn’t only cater for casual players. It’s catering towards both casual and dedicated <<< Dedicated players also roleplay, socialise etc. Ascended equipments segregate the community between “POWER HUNGRY” games and those not power hungry, this is what hurts other MMOs.
Yakkington’s Ring without Infusion stats >>>> Opal Orichalum Ring of the Explorer stats
… definitely makes exotic obsolete, especially for trinkets and jewelry where mats are scarce.
And why use exotic gears in the first place when it is not feasible for certain dungeons? (gating issue).
Different implementation tends to shake the balance abit:
1st problem – Creating specialised dungeon armours to deal with unique dungeon environment, kinda like WoW’s resist equipments. Multiple PvE armours just increase gear grind or break up casual dungeon contacts, more grind so that players can enjoy more “end game” content. >>> actually more casual players will just quit because they are prevented from enjoying the content.
2nd problem – Creating a more powerful tier = more “end game” content. >>> Makes previous tier obsolete. Game design will start to revolve around the most powerful tier, the cycle continues with more “end game” creation. You will never truely satisfy the power gamers, and will alienate much of the casual community.
3rd problem – More gates to content. Halloween’s event had one issue where some players have troubles getting to higher leveled areas to get the complete Mad Memoirs. That is a level issue, but content should be designed around availability and opportunity, not “end game” or hardcore gamers.
4th problem – Infusion is the “new stats”, new items will never come fast enough. So eventually we will start to see more people with same skins in WvW/PvE whatever unless they use transmutation stones >>> a repeat of current situ, not new content which encourages customisation.
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