Guild Wars 2

Chris Whiteside.6102:

Personally I think a CDI on the BLT would be good to do at some point.

Chris

Sounds nice, but there are a lot more important things that need to be discussed, that effect the core (conditions, class mechanic, mob AI,….) that shuold be adressed before BLT.
The player unl34shed made a list on top of this side.

haviz.1340:

Bosses also don’t use some of their abilities while at range (you know, melee attacks). Spider queen use only 1 attack when at range (poison field) and 2 attacks when in melee (immoblize and autoattack).

But she tries to get in melee range to cast those skills. And on the other hand, if you are in melee range, there is no poison field under you, that would make the fight harder…..

There is no downside for going into melee range, you ress faster, bosses dont do their strong aoe, buffs are easier shared and only 1 person eats damage most of the time, while the melee damage of the group is higher than ranged damage.

There is no downside for going into melee range and standing next to each other, which is illogical.

haviz.1340:

Ranging bosses is so hard when you keep them crippled/chilled/immobilized permanently. Just kite back and relax with your autoattack turned on.

But it requires active combat, moving, teamplay to apply this cripple etc. I never said, that melee is bad, but the risk vs reward if you compare melee vs range is not equal, which it should be.

haviz.1340:

I’m not sure what OP wants but if you somehow discourage stacking, why would I ever run any supportive build like might stacking ele when the effective range is like 360 and my team is spread out. Shouldn’t I then run fully selfish builds and play like solo with 4 strangers?

Then there is some issue with the radius or something else. This is just one more point, why melee is more effective and more rewarding than ranged, which obvious should not be.

Taygus.4571:

No casual is the way you play, not how long you play it.
Examples. The Sims players are considered casual gamers. They’re not after difficulty or challenges, that doesn’t mean they don’t play for hours on end.

I am a casual players, I can easily sink (life allowing) 30-40/week in gaming. But it’s the way I play that makes me a casual. ie. not being after challenging content, just wanting to ‘walk’ through stuff.

And the next thing you want is a giant button on your screen, that will give you a free precourser per day?

Even Monopoly has no walk through, you can get to jail, or pay on other persons hotels…. thats life.

And I’m pretty sure, that casual doesnt mean walk through, it means “able to use the core mechanic of the game” and understanding, whats going on on the screen -> understanding teamplay and is able to dodge

CntrlAltDefeat.1465:

I hit rank 4 necro with full whirling axe for 11.2k dmg. I followed through with evis for another 7.4k. I swapped to sword and with leg specialist immobilised them and got final thrust in for 5k. In 8 seconds I did 11+7+5=23,000+ dmg. That only removed their death shroud.

Dude please..any profession that has a mechanic that allows a rank 4 to absord 23K dmg from a rank 40 ..and you wanna come here and say warrior is OP. You can have any warrior build you like in exchange for the 23,000 HP buffer.

Nuf said?

23k HP, without mobility, without hard CC, without protection, less Stability…. Nekros need those HP, because they cant get out of fight, when they are attacked.

and btw. why do you think rank 40 means, you deal more damage or get better stats?

Right now, nearly every boss is 2/10 when stacked and sometimes 10/10 when doing ranged (there are some exceptions), because bosses don’t cast some of their abilities, while in melee range.

Bosses should get a cleaving attack, to disallow stacking (or make it harder than open field). Right now, you only get benefits out of stacking.

Bosses should do fast auto attacks in between their strong, telegraphed skills, to build up some pressure to the players.

Defiance needs to go, to reward teamplay and a rage mode (3 stuns in 10 seconds) included, to punish skill spamming and stun locking the boss. – In rage mode, the boss gets hard CC immune (can still be slowed), moves faster , deals more damage and attacks faster.

And at least, bosses that requires some sort of coordination, press switches at the right time, to stun the boss otherwise he is immune to damage etc.

Just want to push this, because it think it got lost.

whyme.3281:

Have you ever considered closing the threads for let’s say an hour go through it and start a lifestream with the appropriate developers to the discussed topic.

Maybe read 30minutes through the post, make some notes and then start a lifestream.

It would be interesting, what they think about it, what’s their concern…. I think it would be alot easier for you, to post your reply in a video. Last CDI you “wasted” 30minutes to answere a question, while the discussion went to a completly different topic.

If possible, do it every day or two, after lunch (just a suggestion). But please dont start reading through the threads, at the lifestream, the reading must be done first. The advantage of a video for you as developer is clear I think, your can go more into details and more devs are involved into the answere.

if they do that, conditions have to scale with all those other damage multipliers as well, to be fair.

And 50%?

condition duration should have been added as stat for a gear. As an equivalent to crit damage. Then there could also be a condition glass set: condi dmg, duration and precision or one with toughness instead of precision.
But unfortunately with the current system (stack limit and high amount of cleans) every point in condition duration is most of the time just wasted.
And with this change conditions would “rely” on 4 stats (condi duration, damage, precision and defense)

The only real problem the ranger has is his pet.

In PvE (dungeons) it dies because it cant dodge those telegraphed skills
In WvW (zerg) it dies in AOE
In WvW (roaming) it cant hit moving targets
In PvP its OP in condition builds, because it gives condition builds high direct damage burst.

A funny fact is, that the pet when its moad by a mesmer, hits everything, because it has a range of 250 instead of 130.

I would suggest:

• give melee pets 250 range, faster projectiles to ranged pets
• some sort of block evade every few seconds to help in dungeons
• AoE damage reduction
• scaling with ranger stats

And then lower the base health and tweak the damage of the pets.

I just post the link to my thread, with some of the core issues the classes have.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/balance/All-Before-balancing-classes/first#post3579556

tom.7468:

They changed berserker stance to be immune to conditions because of the condi meta.
They wanted warrior to be hardcounter to strong condi builds primarily necros,rangers,engineers because no other class had a chance to stop them.
But now its hard for warriors to beat necros after skull crack + a lot of other nerfs.
Warriors were considered a free kill for over a year before they got some buffs.

I think you messed something up here. Warrior was the counter to direct damage, with high armor, high health, and invulnerability (that allows condition damage).

It was completly stupid, to give the warrior on top of that, all those condition cleanses. A few would be ok, but not 8 seconds immunity, -33% percent duration on mobility ones, full cleanse and 3 conditions with every burst skill…

Something like Sigil of Purity (condi remove on crit), dogged march and maybe shouts remove 1 condition would be more than enough for the warrior. Dont forget his high health and high regen.

Its not only, that the warrior has weakspots (condition damage and kiting). Which can both be fixed easily by investing 20 traitpoints in defense tree.

What other class can do this with 20 traitpoints?

Warriors core mechanic is broken, with adrenaline, they can only win. They can only get adrenaline, there is no way to lose it. Low cooldowns, high health, high armor and mobility skills on nearly every weapon-set (+ utility skills).

Lets look at other classes:

• nekromancers have their deathshroud, for this, they have low movespeed, low protection and only soft CC
• Ranger share their damage with their pet, if the pet dies, they will lose damage
• Thiefs have stealth, as tradeoff, they have low health
• Guardians have a high healing capability and condi cleans, but as tradeoff, low base health
• …

Whats warriors tradeoff for heaving these high stats? invest 20 points? not having the best damage (very situational)?

hannah mee.7925:

Warlord.9074:

nothing you said made any sense and I read it. warriors are tanky because they are heavy armor warriors and they do good melee damage because they are the purest melee DPS class in the game. This is a profession that is meant to facetank and do high melee DPS because it is a warrior. Look up warrior in the dictionary and that is the definition of a warrior. There is nothing wrong with warriors they are exactly how they should be there is a bunch of problems with the other professions ranger is one of them. How about you guys accept the fact that warriors are warriors and ask ANET to fix your other classes. And stop making useless threads asking for anet to nerf warriors because your class is broken and is underpowered.

I couldn’t agree more. Mesmers, Warriors, Guardians…they aren’t overpowered – other classes are just simply underpowered and cannot pull off any essential task all that well. It reminds me of how Guild Wars 1 ended with Necromancers and Ritualists being vastly overpowered than other classes because every other class was hopelessly underpowered by comparison.

The solutions are:

1) Bring every class up to speed so they can actually do well.

2) Nerf every class to being useless.

I prefer #1.

3) give every class a weakness, so they have to invest alot of their traitpoints (not 20) if they want to get rid of it

This would then include, nerf readjust warrior, fix other classes and balance them somewhere in the middle.

Now I got time testing the engineer, he lacks some scalings in his kits and turrets, that needs to be addressed.

I wonder if ele weapons work the same? let’s test it

E: Tested it, its the same…..

However, I will not include unfitting or useless skills in here, because every class has a lot of them. I know, that they also belong to the core of the game, but with examples, I would need at least 5 more posts, which I simply don’t have.
They should be addressed with the point “fix broken/bugged/unfitting skills:”

@Bombsaway: I completely agree with unleashed here. Balancing 3 different gamemodes has to stop.

runeblade.7514:

What would rifle bring to the table that longbow doesn’t?

Long range, single target, direct damage. Like a sniper. And the Longbow could then be used for more AoE damage.

tom.7468:

Hate to be the bringer of bad news but anet is never gonna give rifle to ranger because they are nature theme or something like that just make a warrior.

glue some gears on it and call it steampunk. Then it will fit everywhere

Auesis.7301:

Congrats, you got hit by one of the most telegraphed skills in the entire game.

It would be the most telegraphed skill, if you get a little mark on top of your character. In a teamfight (3v3) you cant allways have an eye on the warrior in 1500 range. And you know what, this game isnt balanced arround 1v1

Rangers are UP, there are one or two broken builds (condi-spirit bunker and spirit bunker) that make them appear balanced and competitive to Anet. Have you tried a cat/bird in your build? then you will get arround 30% of a berserkers damage

Have you ever considered closing the threads for let’s say an hour go through it and start a lifestream with the appropriate developers to the discussed topic.

Maybe read 30minutes through the post, make some notes and then start a lifestream.

It would be interesting, what they think about it, what’s their concern…. I think it would be alot easier for you, to post your reply in a video. Last CDI you “wasted” 30minutes to answere a question, while the discussion went to a completly different topic.

If possible, do it every day or two, after lunch (just a suggestion). But please dont start reading through the threads, at the lifestream, the reading must be done first. The advantage of a video for you as developer is clear I think, your can go more into details and more devs are involved into the answere.

Now I got it, sounds not that bad. But I’m not sure if this would fix the bunker build issue.
If cats base damage is decent without scaling, they can still lead to this balancing issue.

The idea is good, but it needs some testing by Anet. They have to decide whats the best solution, but as it is right now, it is a bad situation for the rangers.

So either:

• same base values for every pet, special scaling
• special base values, every stat scales
• special base values, special scaling

Whats the best solution, needs to be tested, but all three should be better balance wise, than current system.

It should be clear, that if the pet hits more often, its damage needs to lowered (rebalanced).

Rangers are designed, with pets, that deals part of their damage, if they cant hit properly, than this is a broken mechanic and needs to be fixed.

How do we balance the pets as they are right now? 100% hit chance on static targets or <30% chance on moving targets? Thats a huge difference (theoreticly 3 times more damage).

So why dont fix this obvious broken mechanic (as we see with morph)? And I can ask you again, what do you want to control, if this stupid pets misses anyways?

Pet HP are the second design issue, because they cant evade automaticly, they are lifesponges now. More control wont fix this either.

Btw. I made some suggestions fix the whole pet problematics on page 1 of this thead, but you completly ignored it.

The necro has good support capabilities, well… he could have them, in form of his CCs, blinds, … but unfortunately this support has nearly no effect in dungeons, because a) the mobs die to fast (trash) or ignore it completely (bosses/champions). And this is due to bad enemy design and has nothing to do with the necro, it’s a fundamental problem in GW2

There are a lot of not needed calculations done, when it comes to condition damage.

The damage per second of a condition is not calculated once its applied, it is calculated every second. If you get a might stack, you bleed deals one more damage, if you lose it, one less…. Over all there is no difference if my new conditions deal more damage or every condition applied deals more for a short ammount of time. The average damage stays the same.

So why not calculate the damage a condition deals once its applied, with the condition duration, condition damage at this time.

Right now its like this every second for every condition:

• get condi duration player has
• get condi damage player has
• get -condi duration enemy has
• calculate damage
• reduce the time by 1
• deal damage

While it could be that simple, do the above once and then do this every second:

• deal damage
• recude time by 1

This will save a lot of server Performance and will then allow to atleast increase the condition cap.

Doesnt that end in taking a cat for defensive builds, because it deals the most damage and a bear/dog/whatever for offensive builds, because it scales with my offensive stats?

Tim.6450:

whyme I aggree with most what you say but I do dissaggree with this one:

" for example, every pet has 2 major, 2 minor stats, which he scales good with and the rest stay at base values."
This will make it so that some pet will become useless depending on your build. Instead I suggest that 50% of the stats are preset depending on the type of pet and that the other 50% scales with the ranger.

Can you be more specific here? I was thinking in my post, that every pet has lets say 900 base stat for everything and health depending on pet type. The rest will get increases with every base point (no might etc.) the ranger gets.
Lets make some examples:

• A cat will scale very good with power and precision and gets lower benefits out of crit damage (ferocity) and vitality.
• A bear will scale good with defensive stats and probably as minor stats, power and healing power
• A spider will go for condition damage, duration and its minors will be precision and toughness.
• …..

The final numbers needs to be tweaked, maybe a fifth stat is needed, but I think you know what I mean.

If I understand you correctly, than you want the cats for example still have their high base damage and scale with condi damage and defensive stats (the rest). This woulndt change the current problem with those hybrid builds we have. Right now in PvP the only good ranger builds are tanky with cat (Tanky heal or tanky-condition). These builds completely destroys rangers balance, because they get 100% benefit out of their stats plus the full damage of the pet (30%+ of a berserker build). All this can be topped with spirits. Because he gets full benefit out of armor and condition stats compared to bad power scaling caused by the pet. And now try to balance this mess, with simple number tweaking, it’s impossible.

[added the point fix bugged skills, so that they work as intended. Some buggs are known for over a year now and were never touched]

10% of the damage dealt or 20% and redue active healing and regeneration by 33%.

Havent tested it, but I think they will improve too, because of the 130 to 250 range increase.

But it would solve at least one more problem than swaggs suggestion.

Pet controll is ok as it is now, it has little to high delay, but its ok.
With more controll over the pets abilities, the pet will not magically start dodging boss hits in PvE or run out of AoE damage in WvW. It will give me a bit more controll to the pets leap (dogs) or immobilize (spiders) but thats it. But it wont change anything at the problems a ranger has with his pets.

Not to mention the several seconds I am losing for giving my pet commands.

Your “more control”-approach wont help, because it doesnt matter when your pet activates his skills. Most of them wont hit anyway. So you do nothing while your pet misses all his “gamechanging/strong” attacks.

I think I said this here before and unleashed said it, too. A pet transformed into a moa (by mesmer ulti) hits every of his attacks. So then lets look at the different abilities:
250 basic range vs 130 of our pets
1/4 s Autoattack vs 1/4-1/2 second
600 leap vs 300 leap

Its not wonder that our pets miss their target, if they attack slower with a lower range. Then you can have as much control as you want, they will still miss.

Increase their attack range to 250 and everything would be fine. Ok, the damage needs to be lowered a bit, if they hit more often.

Carighan.6758:

Honestly, I think WvW and PvE can be ~easily balanced on the same set of abilities.

It’s only sPvP which is highly problematic because it forces characters into a combat mode which RPGs generally aren’t viable for.

No you cant balance them, because you have 2 types of enemies.

fast hitting players vs dumb slow-hitting monsters
more or less intelligent moving players vs static AI
maximum 30k health vs 1+million for bosses
active condi remove vs defiant, unshakable and immunity
zerg against zerg vs group of 5 againt 1 boss
….

there needs something to be done. Right now, you cant balance one skill for every 3 games. And on the other hand, you cant split every skill to every 3 gamemodes.

E: sPvP works, the problem is, that we have a stat gap of more than 30% between both game modes. Which results in a damage difference of more than 60% (the stats are multiplying). And this makes balancing needlessly complicated. And ends in doing the balancing work for at least 2 (if not all 3) different games.

@Escadin: I will look at it. Im not sure how implement it here, because these are more bugs and if we start with bugs, I will definitely need more space.
The scaling of skills is the only thing, that’s a general problem. If I remember correctly, than the kits dont scale with the stats too.

core-mechanics of classes:
ranger:

• pets need to hit moving targets:
  combat in GW2 is not static, everyone is moving (except current PvE, more later). To improve this, pets need to get their attack range increased, get a short ranged leap or attack while moving. Good example, a pet converted into a moa by a mesmer hits nearly everything
• Pet stats:
  In my opinion, pet stats should scale with ranger stats (each pet-type with different scaling factors). for example, every pet has 2 major, 2 minor stats, which he scales good with and the rest stay at base values. This would especially nerf rangers hybrid builds, which are too strong right now (spirit-bunker-ranger) and will allow balancing the ranger, because right now with those builds, you cant balance them correctly, nerfing the condition part will nerf every condition build and nerfing the pets damage will nerf direct damage builds which are weak right now.
• spirits: No procs without any conditions. Offensive procs on crit, defensive on getting hit. Only water spirit on hit, because its a heal.

Necromancer:

• Skill delay while leaving deathshroud needs to go on utility skills. It cant be possible that you cant use your healing skill for 2 seconds after leaving deathschroud.
• Allow heals in deathshroud: right now it is not possible to get healed while in deathshroud. Every regeneration on you is negated. It is not a sort of protection, its a lifesponge and doesnt help to survive nor is it usefull in some builds. which leads to the next point
• Split deahtshroud into several forms, one for condition damage, one for direct damage and one for defense (vampiric one would be cool too). Which can be selected (like rangers pets). Rght now, deathshroud is a life sponge and not a utility skill, it is full of different kinds of skills, that dont fit together and maximum half of them is usefull in builds.
• Minions need to scale with the players stats (same as rangers pets).

Guardian:

• his burning is a hit in the face to every condition class. there is no condition guardian build, but he steals the burning slots with his auto attacks. With the changes above (everyone gets his own stack) this wouldnt be a problem
• Same as every other minion class, spirit weapons need to scale with guardians stats.

Elementalist:

• Every weapon can do everything: on one side it is nice, because he cant swap weapons, but due to gear limitation, half of your set is useless because you miss the stats for those skills.
• conjured weapon: same as engineer kits, they need to scale with he equipped weapon.

Warrior:

• Not every burst skills actually bursts, GS is a buff (maybe swap with 100 Blades) and Longbow is damage over time (swap with arcing arrow)
• The actual mechanic of the adrenalin system is out of balance, you can only win with it. If you miss an atack, you dont lose the adrenalin, you only get a small CD
• I would include some sort of adrenalin regulation in his normal skills, so that every skill except 1 drains up to 2 adrenalin and if you hit a target you will get it back and If you miss, you will lose it. This will give the warrior some risk by simple spamming skills.

Engineer:

• Same as with rangers pets, his turrets (core mechanic) don’t scale with his stats, making them useless in higher level or with better gear.
• Kits: They have their own damage value. With new gear (ascended) every other class got 5% more base damage, engineers kits didn’t get this buff. Some scaling with the weapon damage equipped is needed.

thief and mesmer:

• im not into them, i know mesmer have problems in PvE, but I dont play them enough to say anything about them, maybe someone can help me out here. If there are any problems with their mechanic.

Since beginning PvP, PvE and WvW are constantly drifting away from each other. I think there needs to be some core mechanics addressed before we can start balancing classes.

Here is a list, what needs to be done and later I will give some examples:

• Stat difference between gamemodes
• condition cap
• core-mechanics of classes
• monster behavior and stats
• fix broken/bugged skills

After this we can start work on classes:

• beginning with traits
• polishing skills

So and now the examples:
Stat difference between gamemodes:
Right now we have 3 completly different games (not gamemodes) in GW2. This needs to change. You cant balance the game around sPVP, where stats are atleast 30% lower than in the rest of the game and where is no buff-food available. With ascended gear, we got the strongest gear for the rest of the game(?), so this should be base values for sPvP too. I would suggest, increasing the stats you can get in sPvP to the same values you will get with ascended gear, include every stat combination available, every rune/sigil and buff-food in sPvP.

Now more specific:

• Ascended gear should be clear, we need all gamemode to get stat wise closer together. Just for example: Condition gear in sPvP can get arround 2.6k condition damage and 30% duration, while in PvE you get 3.2k and 70% duration. which is a huge difference.
  PvP-Build
  PvE-Build

• Stat combinations in PvP are very limited and static values, nearly no combination of them is possible. I would include rings for combination and make the stats selectable like we have them on legendaries (but mainstats and minor stats, not full sets)

• sigils/runes should be clear, most of them dont excist in PvP, which means, there is no balance possible for them.

• Buff-food has a huge impact in PvE espacially WvW. 40% condition duration is equal to 40% more damage, plus ~30% normal damage is huge. Just include them in PvP. They dont need to be time limited, they could give a permanent buff in PvP. But include them, so a) they get balanced and b) the rest of the game can be balanced, due to PvP.

condition cap:
People claim about it since beta and it was never touched. I can understand, that there are technical limitations, but there are also numbers of useless calculations, that are done every tick.

• Get rid of this kittening condition cap. It makes absolutely no sense at all that conditions are capped. If there are any engine limitations, I would love to hear from a dev, where the limitations are. Probably the community has a good solution you probably didnt imagine, where everyone could live with. please devs talk to us
• If there are performance issues, then make conditions fire and forget. Right now conditions gets recalculated every second. I dont care that if I get 1 stack of might, then my bleeds deal 1 more damage. The conditions I will apply while I have those might stacks, will deal the same damage a few seconds later.
• If it is a problem of visibility, than screw it. If you die to 20 conditions, you will die to 40 or 60 aswell. right now condition builds lose alot of their damage if there are more than one other player around, sometimes it doesnt even need to be a condition build.

Swagg.9236:

Sarrs.4831:

Guardians are already one of three mandatory pieces in a WvW train (guardian, warrior, elementalist).

Let’s stop here for a second.

WvW is this game’s second form of PvP aside from sPvP. In WvW, players fight each other. However, unlike in sPvP, the numbers of players and the stats players achieve vary wildly compared to what one might find in even an sPvP hotjoin match. These variables completely throw off any attempt at all to properly balance any aspect of WvW.

Even though changes made from an sPvP perspective would flow over into WvW, it is for the best in every regard since there is no conceivable way to properly balance something from a WvW standpoint due to the inflated stats, the consumables, the number of players and the stability bathing that occurs in that game-mode. It makes no sense to ever balance from a WvW perspective.

So all you are suggesting here is for sPvP, which then will may ruin the rest of the game? What about putting PvP and WvW on the same level first and then start balancing from that point?

• Lets start with increasing the stats you can get in sPvP or decreasing those in PvE/WvW to the same level?
• Maybe even introduce buff-food in PvP, which could be a permanent buff, and only needs to be purchased once.
• Then look at the core mechanic of every class.
• Overhaul the traits of some classes
• And then start suggesting nerfs to/buffs to/new skills.
• (Overhaul PvE enemies to faster hitting and dodging ones)

This would be the rational way to balance this game, but we as community cant do anything here, its ANets job.

Your suggestions start at the wrong side of that list. Its a lot of effort you made here, but in the end its just worthless, because every change in the list above, needs again a rebalance of your suggestions.

We need to start at the root of all those issues and not at the top.

They were initially designed to have a hard time against conditions. In the first months (back 1 1/2 year ago) they had some trouble in PvP, because they had bugged movement skills, that didnt hit properly and they could be kited easily. The HS buff and a fix to the gap closers would be enough at this point, to make them playable.

But someone gave them the best condi removes in game and buffed their healing signed and all those gap closers got fixed (more or less) too. Making the warrior this high HP, high regen, high movement class, which only has to invest 20 points into defense tree.

havoc.6814:

P Fun Daddy.1208:

Super OP? No. Better at dealing with conditions than most other classes? Yes.

Talk about misquoting.

I’ll just refer you to the following link since you seem to have no idea what the various professions have for condition removal. You will note that the warrior actually has fewer skills and traits for dealing with conditions than other professions. You can count, can’t you? Go count them then….

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Condition_removal#Skills_that_remove_conditions

Talk about misquoting? I have misquoted no one. That is your little trick.

counting them doesnt proof anything. The warrior gets with 20points in defense 2 condi removes that removes up to 3 conditions (which cant all be dodge) on a <10 seconds CD each, plus health regen, plus reduction of cripple. Thats more than every other class gets out of 20 points.

Moving cleansing ire to grandmaster or to tactics would help a lot. If the warrior may have problems with conditions, then he may should invest alot of points into defensive traits and skills, to compensate this, and not 20.

I wouldnt call it OP, I would call it nteresting.

Numbers on the skills need to be tweaked and base stats of the pets drasticly lowered, thats for sure. And then it woulndt be that much of a problem. Maybe one of these four things would be too much, tests needs to proof that.

But in the end, we would see pets, that survive WvW, Dungeons and dont hit like a truck in condition builds. This would mean we can be balanced withoug destroying 3/4 of the other builds, because one build is too strong.

And other classes need 50 points to get the same benefit, the warrior gets out of this 20, if this is even possible on some classes.

Escadin.9482:

Updated the list.

@whyme could you go more into detail about deathmagic traitline? Or is the whole traitline (3 minor + 12 major traits) useless? How is that even possible?

Its the first two minor traits, that force you to play a minion master, whether you want it or not.

“reanimator (5)”, you have to take it, because its a minor trait. It gives you “jagged horrors”which are completly useless, they deal no damage and attack every enemy that is nearby.
“Protection of the Horde (15)”, again a minior trait. But if you run a well build, you dont have any minions (except those jagged horrors). But 20 thoughness makes absolutly no sense.

I would also add the point against class mechanic, and not only balance or bugged to the list.

Master’s Bond [trait] – Ranger – overall

This destroys the whole class mechanic, because the bonus attributes are gone when you swap the pets. You dont get benefits, when you let your pet alive.
suggestion:
- save the stacks for the dead pet or give them to the “new” pet. aslong as a pet dies, not is swapped.

Death magic traitline – Necromancer – overall

You are forced to take brain-dead minions with you, even if you only want the good well traits in this line.
suggestion:
- move all those minion related minor traits to the major ones and swap them with major traits.

Almost perfect and 10 Posts with changes? And you didnt even touch the traits…. wow. The most problems every class has, comes from their traits or core mechanic, the skills, that you obviously only want to make dodge-able, are the minor problem.
The access to bonus damage an ele has is unbalanced, 30% in water, 20% in earth,…. this destroys the balance of the builds and end in “broken fgs builds”, where you have to stay in water, because it deals the most damage with fgs.

Another problem is, that there is no condition or power weapon, you allways have both. But the stats out there, are only power or condition, the only hybrid thing is celestial, but it also gives you defensive stats, which doesnt allow high damage builds. So for high damage, you can either take direct damage or condition damage, but not both. Which makes half or your skills useless. Some set with power, precision, crit damage and condition damage, everything a minor stat could help the ele more, than your changes.

btw. I think you should write at the top of each weaponset/skill, what your ideas behind those changes are. Its hard to understand your changes, because you only post some numbers.

No capes, they are dangerous:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jy2YhxXn7NY

1) wordlimits are good on one side, because it forces the people to say, what needs to be said and nothing more. But, you want feedback, so listen to everything everyone wants to say. I know, this takes time, but its for the best of GW2.

2) We have alot of topics that werent discussed, since the last vote. Maybe a vote on which of the missing ones should be first, or atleast do the next 3 and then vote.
I dont think that all those votings and things help in the end, we need results at some issues, (condition damage, class balance, AI). I know, they cant be fixed in one day, but building the way where GW2 leads to, is good to know.

And when the topic is choosen, take small steps (for example class balance, do one class after another for max. 3day each), let us know, how you see those things ( for example whats the “role/meaning” of every class) and what technical limitations are there (condition cap). There are some points, we discuss and everyone shouts “do this and that” but in the end, its not possible.

Maybe even start suveys at some points, where you not 100% sure, if it would be good or not.

They made the wrong descissions at the time we had the condition meta.

instead of making the warrior a big threat while he is in close combat and making it easy for him to get there (i.e. lifesteal and working gap closer) they gave him all those condition removals, while not tuning down his offensive potential. And whats more important, they gave them the easiest access to those defensive skills/traits. Nearly no sacrifice in offensive if you go defensive.

nah…. they had some bugged gap closers at the beginning, which didnt allow them to enter the fight fast enough.
Bulls charge for example was bugged at the beginning, you cant get to any target.

I think building out his offensive skills (relyable gap closers and CCs) and giving him survivability while in combat (damage to health and maybe some protection) would have made warrior to a great but balanced class. That still could take out every direct damage class with ease, but need skill/has problem against condition builds.

This would then mean, he need other teammates to take conditions of him, or run like hell, if he face a good condition player. And thats the biggest problem, he dont need to fear direct damage or condition builds, because he can be imune to both.

A Guardian on the other hand, has problems agains heavy burst damage, while he can deal with sustained damage. A guardian has to invest a lot to compensate this weakness. Vitality, thougness and defensive traits.
The warrior on the other hand needs 20 defensive trait points and thats it. Gear? some thoughness and vita is great, but he dont need it, to be strong.

Harper.4173:

Taken from the wiki :
Warriors are masters of martial skills. They rely on speed, strength, toughness, and heavy armor to survive. They’re versatile in combat and benefit from offensive and defensive abilities. Warriors inspire allies and demoralize enemies. As a soldier profession, warriors wear heavy armor.

funny thing, “rely on toughness and heavy armor to survive.” So acording to the wiki, they dont need all those things, that makes them above average balance.

No cleansing ire, no adrenal health, no healing sign, no berserker stance….

I dont think, the warrior needed all those condition removals, with his hig base health and his life regen.

Lets think about it, if the warrior loses his condition imunity/removes (or atleas most of them). But therefore gets some new/reworked healingskills, that heals him while in combat or some percent of his damage done.
This would justify everything the warrior has right now, high damage, high mobility, high health and armor. A hard hitting enemy, that needs to stay in fight or run faster than everyone else can, to survive.

Warrior has alot of gap closers, cripples and anti CC imunity skills. So why does he on top of all that all those condi removes (btw. the best ingame)?

I never said every pet should scale with the same stats equally.

Cats for example should scale good with power and precision, medium with vita and thoughness and bad with condition damage.
Bears good with vita, thoughness, medium with power and precision bad with condition damage.
and so on.

So there will be pets that fit to some build better than others. But as it is right now, the cats give a bunker or condition build a huge advantage over a berserker build. You get 30+% of the damage a berserker deals with every build, you only need to take a cat with you.
If you take a spider with a berserker build you gain nothing, you lose 30% of your damage and deal no condition damage.

There are one or two builds in PvP that are extremly strong, because they abuse this issue. They run full tanky condition builds with cats. They deal full condition damage other clases would deal, but still hit like a truck, if the pet hits.

they arent fine in PVP, they seem fine.

In PvP there is one completly broken build, “condi bunker spirit ranger with cat” that is strong. because it deals full condition damage 30-40% damage of a berserker build and is tanky with 2 defensive stats.

because of this build, pets need to scale with the stats of the ranger.

Dont make a complete new class out of necros, they need number changes and traits that makes sense.

for example, there are a lot of build possible, that sound great on paper, but they simply dont work becaue of the bad scaling/numbers of some traits and some traits that you have to take (jagged horror).

builds that are possible on paper:

• vampiric build (<50hp per attack is not enough, ~20% of damage done would be ok)
• minion build (bad AI, damage is ok, bad support)
• power well build (jagged horror…)
• power axe/dagger
• scepter/staff-condition build

the last two are the only builds that actually work.

Some changes I would like to see:

• swap jagged horror with dark armor, and swap the other minor traits too.
• move terror to grandmaster (swap with 33% scepter trait) terror and dhuumfire are both strong conditions and you should go full offensive to get them.
• increase the scaling of bloodmagic traits to be able to play a “vampire”. Maybe even reduce active healing by some percent and give very good life steal.
• improve pet AI (generall AI problem)

copied out of the other thread:

the class mechanic need to be fixed before it can be balanced.

• Pets need to hit their targets -> increase attack range or attack while moving
• Pets have to scale with rangers stats -> no condition bunker build with high burst damage anymore
• Pets need damage reduction -> active dodge or passive block/evade every X seconds
• Pets have to go out or AoE damage by them selved or get an aoe damage reduction

These 4 basic things need to be fixed, before the rangers skills/traita get balanced.

the class mechanic need to be fixed before it can be balanced.

• Pets need to hit their targets -> increase attack range or attack while moving
• Pets have to scale with rangers stats -> no condition bunker build with high burst damage anymore
• Pets need damage reduction -> active dodge or passive block/evade every X seconds
• Pets have to go out or AoE damage by them selved or get an aoe damage reduction

These 4 basic things need to be fixed, before the rangers skills/traita get balanced.