Guild Wars 2

nekretaal.6485:

Meanwhile, the Necromancer’s problem is that lifesteal is tiny and attacks are slow. This limits the whole trait line to use only for dagger. If the amounts were bigger, then it could be for all Necromancers.

Lifesteal traited necromancer with lifesteal food is not Imba, so lifesteal can be safely raised to this level.

And there is the next Problem, both share the same Traitline. So you can eather buff you dagger or siphon, which is pretty bad right now. Same for Wells, a melee dagger well build or a vampiric-well build doesn’t work. All those build would need >=50Point in Bloodmagic.

In my opinion an iCD (0.5s) wouldn’t be that bad, if we get more benefit out of our siphons. right now you don’t feel that siphons would keep you alive so the question is are they worth using anyway?

I think it wouldn’t be that bad, if we could get about 300hp per hit and 500hp per crit, while reducing our heal skill by lets say 50% if we use all siphon traits (not sure about the numbers). So this build would be unique, strong, but counter able with blinds, immobilize , blocks, stuns …

Brando.1374:

at my condi dmg when I run 30/20/0/0/20 is 1890 with will equal about 801 burning dmg per second!

now combine that with:
10 stacks of bleeds – 1370
poison = 269
fear = 1k+

no add that together and you get around 3440 dmg a second for lets say 3 seconds thats 10,320 dmg!!

so please tell me again how that is not High dmg?

And how many attacks/skills do you need to get all that conditions up?

@Arenanet:

It is really difficult to discuss some changes, because I think you have a different view on how the classes should look like, what their stength and weaknesses are etc.
Can you give us just a shot note on every class, how they should look like, what are their strength and weaknesses and in which “role” you see them.

Lets take a warrior as an example, he has high hp, high armor, high HP/s, damage and condition immunity, and still high damage. In early month he had only direct damage immunity and compared with his high armor/health, I would call him anti direct damage class, with condition damage as his weakness, but in the last patches his weak spot was reduced over and over again, making him the class we have now.

The guardian on the other hand, has low health and high armor, condi cleanse and good healing skills. Making him vulnerable burst damage. But constant damage is no problem, because of his healing capabilities.

In my opinion classes should be able to compensate their weakness by a small amount, but with a huge investment into grandmaster traits.

people think conditions are super mega op and because every single burn and bleed is listed as one stat in this PvP-damage-history, so it is most of the time “the main damage source”

Some hate both traits, because you can’t evade it, because it is the first crit after 10s, no matter how many attacks you dodged or block.

Overall it is a small damage boost for the necro.

We have 6 channeling skills, all on differend weapon sets. These 400armor sound good, but in reality they reduce damage by less then 5%. Would love to get few seconds of protection instead.

Why two Condition traits as Curse Grandmaster? So it is not worth spending >25 points with a power Build. I think this is a bad idea. Same for the MM focus in Death magic. This line is not interesting for other builds, because it feels like doing something wrong, when you spend pints there.

I would like to be able to apply more Conditions while in Deathshroud. because DS is only used to prevent some damage in a condition build and that got nerfed.

I think Death into Life could be in the right place, if we get a viable Siphon Build. Right now all healing and especially siphon traits dont scale well with healing power. Why not improve this, so we are able to get a good amount HP/s from siphoning. (as mentioned few pages before) In addition, reduce the healing from our healing skills per siphon trait, so we need to be aggressive and hit the enemy to survive. Right now those siphon only cover our bad scaling with healing power.

Abramelin.7356:

These are pvp changes that I fear will further unbalance pve. Anet could you please please make them pvp only? For example:

1. Necros already have weak support and are not desired in parties because of it. This patch further weakens necro support by removing the condi clear from putrid Mark and needing the ability to apply weakness.

2. Thieves are already squishy compared to warriors and guardians. However their vigour is getting nerfed. This will be problematic in boss fights and undermines the thief’s character as evasion melee. It is also unbalanced for guardians to retain their vigour in addition to all their heavy armour boons and defensive abilities while thieves lose theirs without such boons etc

3. Guardians are getting a damage buff, but they are already a top dps class in pve with full buffs (they out damage warriors).

Not more splits between PvE and PvP, we have 3 gamemodes drifting apart of each other in each balance patch. We need other solutions.

mini.6018:

@Jon Peters

When are you going to do something about conditions ?
The way they are designed right now they affect pretty terribly gameplay turning it from action mode to cast and forget mode ,beating the game’s first promotion factor wich was the action based combat system.
Right now condition damage needs only one stat to maximize dps and you also enforce it with bunker stats.Condition duration and precision are all non standing arguments since it only increases the condition dps in a fight by very little while if you go into power builds,stacking only power will give you horrible damage.Besides that conditions are to easily reaplied in comparison with condition removal and promotes easy non action combat.Conditions have only one counter wich is condition removal.

While the power counterpart forces you to stack 3 stats neglecting defence entirely and what is even worse direct damage has a lot of counters.

Range and need of constantly aplying the dps is just the first one.Biggest counter is protection and weakness wich funny enough is a condition hence negating even more the damage incoming to a condition bunker from a power source.

So we have protection,weakness,armor,kiting,dodging,blocking,blinding as a counter to one damage type wich needs to heavily invest in 3 stats to be effective while on the other hand we have only condition removal as a counter to conditions wich need only one stat to be effective

I already suggested that there should be a rework arround conditions and the main one would be drasticly decreasing any base condition durations,remove condition duration from food/runes and sigils and create a new stat combination available for example Condition damage/Precison/Condition duration to achieve the same effect as now and properly mirror the full berserker power builds are forced into to maximize dps.The next step would be to add weakness,armor and protection counterparts for condition damage.

So much wrong informations in one post…..

Conditions need precision and condition duration fort heir full potential. -> 3 stats plus condition builds need to survive longer to see the effect of their damage -> defensive stats too.

They are countered by vitality and healing power too, and blocks, invulnerability, blinds, dodges,….. and -condition duration too.

The only good thing you wrote is the stat combination and the reduce (not remove) of condi duration on runes. But again, conditions builds also need defensive stats to be effective.

Have you ever seen the damage of condition builds, compared to berserker builds? 2-3k dps is max, maybe a burst with 4k on an necro with fear and thats it. every berserker builds laughs about that numbers.

E: The only fix condition damage needs is the remove of the stack limit.

Tongku.5326:

Dear devs

Please keep SPVP exclusive changes limited exclusively to SPVP game mode seriously, by now the rest of us are begining to hate SPVP players due their constant forcing of nerfs etc. on the rest of us. In fact, if its that much trouble and requires that much resources, just remove SPVP from the game, you will not miss many customers and via reallocating resources to the other game modes you will in fact gain a lot more new ones.

You should ask different questions. Lets take condition damage as an example:

• In PVE/WvW you can get up to 2k condidmg and 76%+ condi duration (not including might and sigil stacks and no runes with +duration)
• In sPVP you get 1,5k condi damage and only 30% duration (with undead runes like above)

If I read some posts in sPVP forum complaining about condition damage being too strong, I have to ask my self, what are they talking about? Are those people playing WvW?

Berserker stats on the other hand get same power, same preci and 45% less crit damage, but vitality in sPVP (not including buff food). In the end this means a thief hitting you for 4k damage instead of 7k.

The big question in my oppinion is, what should be balanced and where? I think anet makes their live harder than it could be, having 30%+ stat difference in those gamemodes. I think they need to rebalance this stats at first, otherwise we dont see any good balance, with the same skills for the whole game.

With this aspect, Warriors healing signed is in sPVP 30% to strong, because there is less damage, maybe it is needed that strong in WvW, but in sPVP it is over the top at the moment. The question now it, where does this lead, split every skill and trait between PvP and WvW, but what happens than to PvE? I think anet has 2 option right now:

1. increase PvP stats and include bufffood as a permanent buff (This sounds strange in first place, but it is needed to balance both gametypes)
2. the other possibility would be reducing every stat you can get in PvE/WvW to the same numbers you can get in PvP.

Otherwise all game-type drifting apart and balancing will be impossible sooner or later without splitting every single skill.

What I would like to see for PvP would be an amulet where I can choose my stats the way I want them, instead of having those prebuild ones, I think this could increase build diversity in PvP as well.

oDe Da Beast.7596:

Cmon.. why everyone crying about healing signet?? if they remove warrior healing signet warrior doesnt have anything after that. and plz anet dont listen most of these pve guys its really annoying. u should ask top pvp player and their opinion too !

• It is too strong. HS is one of the best heals of all classes and cant be interrupted, because it is passive.
• People only want to lower the base hp/s and increase healing power scaling, so with lets say arround 800-1k healing power HS has the same hp/s than it has now with 700-800 healing power. With more it gets even stronger.

Its just the simple fact, that a warrior has to sacrifice nothing to get this heal, he doesnt need healingpower, he doesnt need traits….. risk/reward is not given at all.

Sephius.2876:

As a warrior, I’m happy with these changes. But really what I’d LOVE to see is a slight change for Arcing Slice (F1 burst). Even if something like on 3 adrenaline bars it’s 100% crit chance on hit. That would be fine. Just something. ANYTHING. At the moment it’s a waste of an awesome animation.

Swap it with 100 blades, then it is a real burst skill?

Some changes sounds good and needed for PvP, but would be op in WvW, because we have 30% more stats there. (i.e. condition damage)

I think a rebalance of the PvP amuletts stats is needed to achieve a balance in all 3 gamemodes.

did he answer any questions?

Yogen.2395:

Also it would be awesome to have a game mode where you can be whatever character you’d like to be by the press of a button preprogrammed, so people could show off their skills in knowing all the characters in a pvp fight. (Like for example i preprogram to be a warrior with such and such skills on button press 1, and i preprogram to be a necro button press 2.

I think swithing classes you can define is bad, but what about a all random “fun” gamemode.

Builds are preprogrammed by anet or can be defined in custom arenas (doesnt matter here, would only be more work for anet). And you have to life with what build you get. This could be interesting for new player to understand all classes and learn to play, without creating all characters.

I think Mobas could work, too. Maybe not as a pvp mode, but instead as an PvE minigame. But it should be possible as competitive PvP.

You need character progression to make a moba work, thats a fact.

• Starting with a “nacked” level 66 champion. They can choose one weapon set at the beginning.
• level 66 because you get 14 level ups and with each level up 5 trait points. (starting with level 1 and increase levels by 5 would be too imbalanced i think).
• every one has only his #1 skill and a heal skill at the beginning (healskills probably need to be tuned down by a debuff at the beginning -70% increasing (?) by 5% per character level)
• im not sure how to unlock utility skills. Get one slot every 3 level could work the best i think. other idea was skill points per level up and per X creeps killed
• every creep grants an amount of coins, which allows you to buy items.
• items could be some earrings, rings and amulets, which gives a total bonus of what we have now, but you get them in smaller steps.
• weapons could be white, blue, green, yellow up to exotics. which could be some tactical element, buy a green weapon and make some kills or wait until you get an exotic.
• runes and sigils stay the same. but no greens or yellows, this would make it to complex.

the map:
The map would be the normal moba map, with 3 lanes, a jungle and 3 tower per lane and a structure at the end that needs to be destroyed.
A normal map with forrest wont work, because you can see the jungler through there, some sort of ruins or a labyrinth with walls should work here.
Grass that makes people invisible was implementes in lasts year Halloween moba sort of thing, so this works.
An open question could be the view over this grass, it is possible to see the jungler behind the grass. Is this good or bad? I think it isnt that bad, we have no wards and no top view like in other mobas, so we cant see everything going on arround us.

JonathanSharp.7094:

@ team sizes over 5: I know some people really like the idea of having games of 8v8 -> 15 v 15, but in reality, these games are often hard to set up. I think that 5on5 is much easier to organize as a player. When I was a GW1 player, playing competitive GvG, we had many nights where we had a hard time getting all 8 people on, night after night, in order to train. A lot of competitive games have settled on the 5 person team (CS, all mobas, etc.), and it’s an easier # to organize than 8 or 15 person teams.

I think 5 is the biggest team size we’d want for organized play, and we could try smaller teams, but due to multiple reasons, teams greater than 5 would probably be too large for GW2.

That will be the question if you dont try it. I can understand, that setting up 15 player will be tough for some guilds, but it could be solved with fixed teamsizes to join, lets say 5, 10 or 15 of one guild, the rest of another guild. And make more objectives that requires small squads, like supply camps in WvW.

JonathanSharp.7094:

@ King of the hill: We’ve actually tried it a few times internally. It usually devolves into a stalemate in the middle of the map, or one big cluster of bodies. Imagine: the middle point is the only point on the map, and both teams just run right to it…..10 people pop their elites….. there’s a 5on5, and then the game is over. Are there things you’d like to add in order to spice it up a little? IT SOUNDS GREAT…and then you play it…and it leaves a little to be desired.

King of the hill is a very tactical game mode, 2 sides waiting for the other sides mistakes, to punish them.
Current PvP maps arent good for king of the hill. King of the hill maps requires a large battle zone and lots of sneaky ways to get to this point. You shouldnt be able to see the enemies minutes before the fight starts.

JonathanSharp.7094:

@ GvG: There’s a lot of equivocation around "GvG’. Keep in mind that when we’re talking about GvG here, we’re talking about a GAME TYPE. Don’t get this confused with two guilds fighting each other for positioning on a ladder. That’s something else we can do (and want to do), and that would work for CTF, or KOTH, or GvG, or conquest, etc.

For the GAME TYPE, people seem to be asking for:

• 2 lords. If you kill their lord you win.
• There are obstacles in the way (a lot of people use the MOBA analogies of having NPC’s or towers in the way…you defeat these in order to get to the opposing guild lord).
• I assume there’s a time limit?
• Do we do VoD again to stop people from turtling?

I dont think an instant win keeplord would be the way to go. This would end in 1 thief and 4 warriors zerging invisible toward the enemies base and who is faster wins. With a group of 5 it is impossible to find the balance between defending and attacking.

I would call the above keep vs keep and not GvG. GvG should be a measurement of two guilds forces and this cant be done with 5 people out of 70 for example. I see GvG as a small scale WvW version, with organized teams.

Some examples I can imagine

• 15vs15 players. premade groups of 5 players up to 15 of one guild.
• 3 towers and a few smaller objective that give some bonuses
• inside these tower there is either a cap point or a tower lord. I would like a cap point because of the constant time needed.
• Doors need to be opened with bombs. Bombs need 15-30 seconds to blow up, but can be disarmed by the defending team (not while invisible and interrupted on attack).
• The person carry them is marked for the enemy team, 25% slower and cant be made invis. But with the possibility to throw it to other teammates like rocks, to be faster, but requires more coordination.
• Supply camps that allows building defense structures or reinforce the towers. With the difference, that the supply is carried as an environmental weapon, making supply carrier vulnerable.
• A NPC camp that can increase the pressure for one side of the teams. harpies landing on top of one tower and attacking the people inside.

1. How to play PvE with a sword and dodge properly?

2. Looking forward to ascended gear, will we see pets sharing their stats with the ranger in near future?
With ascended gear every class gets a bonus on their stats. The ranger is the only profession that gets only 60% out of this bonus because the pet deals 40% of our damage and is not effected by the gear.

Ashanor.5319:

whyme.3281:

Ashanor.5319:

Thedenofsin.7340:

Zanryu.3417:

Enjoyluck.2618:

Here is proof http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IDhWCwlXX20

You know what I saw? Five members of a team playing the same class, but with builds that were different enough that they could still support each other as a team. Isn’t that how it should be? Shouldn’t every class be able to perform every role to at least some degree? Isn’t that a good model to base other class updates on? I wouldn’t call diversity broken. Sure, it makes it a bit difficult to be prepared for each build you could come across, but diversity is a good thing.

You know what I saw? A profession that needs to be nerfed into the ground. Jonathan Sharp said that if you saw team compositions that were running double of a particular profession it was a clear indicator that profession was out of line and needed to be nerfed.

5 Warriors = mega-nerf.

Except it wasn’t a pro team and he was generally referring to multiple players playing the same build. I also don’t agree with his assertion that two of a profession means they are “out of line” personally. For instance, the only reason people anyone would bring two warriors is to counter the multiple condition spammers.

But warrior was never a counter to condition damage, conditions were his weak spot, he was the anti-direct damage class. Se his high health, regen, armor,… no condition cleanses at the beginning. But then he got condition removes in every patch and now he has no weakspot.

Wrong, the warrior was pretty horrid previous to his buffs. He got the condition cleanses because without them warrior really had no staying power. Warriors weakspot is still massive condition spam, it just isn’t as faceroll easy as it once was. If they use healing signet, they have another weak spot in the form of burst damage.

burst damage his weakspot with 20k+ health and high armor? Burst damage that would kill a warrior is lethal to every other class too. Same with condition damage.

I never said, that warrior was fine before that buff, he needed some love, but in my opinion it was the completely wrong direction. Yes, he needed some condition removes but not that much. He has the strongest anti condition skills of all classes.

Some of his skills were buggy at the beginning, they didn’t properly hit, or needed allot of skills to do so (100B). Some love here, that he could properly land his damage on moving targets would have fixed his issues in my opinion.

Ashanor.5319:

Thedenofsin.7340:

Zanryu.3417:

Enjoyluck.2618:

Here is proof http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IDhWCwlXX20

You know what I saw? Five members of a team playing the same class, but with builds that were different enough that they could still support each other as a team. Isn’t that how it should be? Shouldn’t every class be able to perform every role to at least some degree? Isn’t that a good model to base other class updates on? I wouldn’t call diversity broken. Sure, it makes it a bit difficult to be prepared for each build you could come across, but diversity is a good thing.

You know what I saw? A profession that needs to be nerfed into the ground. Jonathan Sharp said that if you saw team compositions that were running double of a particular profession it was a clear indicator that profession was out of line and needed to be nerfed.

5 Warriors = mega-nerf.

Except it wasn’t a pro team and he was generally referring to multiple players playing the same build. I also don’t agree with his assertion that two of a profession means they are “out of line” personally. For instance, the only reason people anyone would bring two warriors is to counter the multiple condition spammers.

But warrior was never a counter to condition damage, conditions were his weak spot, he was the anti-direct damage class. Se his high health, regen, armor,… no condition cleanses at the beginning. But then he got condition removes in every patch and now he has no weakspot.

Lalangamena.3694:

the only way to balance classes is to remove the AOE cap.
then PVE and WWW will be balanced.
(SPVP should be removed from GW2, they should open separate game called SPVPW2 -as there are no guilds in SPVP and balance it independently )

next stage, after the above is done is to make support and condition builds worth something…

Yes and no, I think the gear in sPVP should be rebalanced to the same level we have in PvE or the other way around, nerf the PvE gear, doesnt matter.

With the upcoming Ascended gear the gap will be even greater.

PvE, WvW and PVP can be balanced, but not with this ~30% Stat difference in gear.

@Topic: the fact that rangers arent touched since release is the one build they are good at in PvP and played in alot of teams. The condition bunker spirit build, that has a huge support (perma burn + protection), high survivability (no crit procs needed) and high direct damage (pet isnt effected by ranger stats). This build makes the ranger appear strong, while alot of things needs to be fixed.

In the beta weekends, rangers greatsword dealed alot more damage and he could be played like a 100B- warrior with quickness and every skill on CD. This was a L2P issue, but on release, 100B was untouched, ranger greatsword damage was reduced….. Thats the point a ranger is today, we get some buffs/changes on maul, while the auto atack damage is the bigger problem for example.

Zanryu.3417:

So… first I hear just anyone can pick up a Warrior and win, now I’m hearing they have to actually know how and when to use their skills? Your side really needs to make up its mind for an argument. This is getting inconsistent.

I would call these things basics and understanding of the game. Or do we have to tell them, that they have to breath in and breath out every two seconds for the rest of their life, or they gona die?

E: You didnt show your traits and armor…..

This doesnt proof anything, because you cant play and what are the builds you used?

Myth1: Healing signed is OP, it is the strongest heal ingame, even troll unguent heals only 340 hps and needs to be activated. All your quotes say HS + AH+ CI is op, only the last quote doesnt say HS + AH + CI. Btw for such a bad skill, you survived impressively lond, how long would other classes need to be killed?

Myth2: Why do you place 4 banners? one is enough for a 100% regen uptime. Then you could use endure pain, or other skills.
In the second fight, you did nothing, only placed your banners and turned you back to the thief…

All I can say is learn to play….. you are the weakest warrior I have ever seen. I think it took you more skill to play bad on purpose than simply playing a warrior.

All you try to do is playing things down and only see every skill at its own. But you have to watch the whole warrior skillset. Its the whole synergie in every skill a warrior has (you totaly forgot endure pain) and that a warrior has nearly nothing to sacrifice if he plays one build or another.

Again, your video doesnt proof anything at all, only you are a bad player

E: in your other videos you can play a warrior and even kill people…. very interesting

Just used the numbers yesterday to tell a guild member what build I use/how he should spec. It is much easier to say use Spite V then (for a necro) The one with the skulls. Imagine how many icons with a skull necros would have

As I said before I like the UI the way it is, it is easy to refer to the traits, it is well designed and clean.
the only thing they could add would be trait names.

I dont think, that sorting the traits that way would be the best sollution. If I want to play a High damage bow/bow sniper-ranger I would need about 70 Points in Marksmanship.
And still the 300 precision and 30% crit damage of skirmishing.

I think some specific traits need to be in other traitlines, otherweise there will allways be a lose-lose situation.

Wallace MacBix.2089:

2) I agree about increased scaling in general (though if the cap was fixed it’d be less of an issue). Also don’t forget that power/precision/toughness/vit all get a “free” 916 points compared to all of the secondary attributes. Now I’m not saying all of them need a boost, but condition damage most likely does.

You forgot the base damage a bleed deal, thats ~850 Condi damage. Base burning is worth 1280 condition damage. The damage a condition deals is not bad, but there are too many things that effects direct damage, like traits.

I don’t understand those technical limitations on condi caps, too. There is no difference in the data send to an client. The only difference is the calculation that needs to be done. And this could be simplified, no check on might every second, only at the time, the condition is applied.

I think toughness and healing is fine, maybe only increase their effect by 20%. In my oppinion, its the enemy design, that makes them ineffective. In PvE we see slow attacking, hard hitting stationary enemies. In PvP we have fast attacking, low damage enemies with high movement. This imbalance makes defensive stats more ineffective and any change to it, would effect PvP too. So its more the boss design, that needs to be adressed, to make defensive stats more viable (faster attacking more moving enemies, like bandits).

Boon duration and the effect of boons should be adressed too. Right now, every boon that is applied, is equally strong (except regeneration). This makes stats like boon duration more or less useless. Some changes here, that would make healing power effect every boon. This could give the game some more depth and would increase build variaty, but with the risk of an “healer”. But as long as this “healer” is no must have in a party, I dont see any problems. Same thing for “tanks”, making them viable, without making the game impossible for a DPS group would be a huge step.

I think, we cant see any balanced fix, aslong as the pets arent effected by ranges stats.

This and sun spirit doesn’t need any proc mechanic makes spririt rangers really strong in PvP, because they dont need direct damage, and dont need precision, the only thing they need is condition damage and the rest goes into defense. And they get high direct damage burst by their pet and high condition damage with the high bruning uptime.

If the pet would share the stats of the ranger instead, there would be a) no problem with ascended gear and b) no spirit ranger build, that lets us appear strong. here some exampled:
*Bears: 120% vita, 120% thoughness, 80% power, 60% healing power
*Cats: 100% power, 100% precision, 100% crit damage, 20% vita, 20% thoughness
*spider: 100% condidmg, 100% condi duration, 80% vita,….

Just some examples, no fixed numbers.

The next thing that needs to be adressed, are the traits, as a ranger I dont get any benefit if I swap my pets (beside the lower CD) to let them stay alive. Even master’s bond is completely stupid, why no stat boost for the ranger and his pet (max 180) aslong as the pet isnt killed, but it can be swapped. This works fine with sigils, why not with pets?
I think alot of the traits we have should effect both, or give the ranger an benefit aslong as the pets are alive, i.e. 10% more damage aslong a as the pet is alive.

btw shouldnt we start a new thread to collect all those non overpowered ideas for the upcomming “collaborative development”.

Can you do the math on defensive stats aswell? Maybe with leaked armor stats too.

I think we dont see an equivalent damage decrease there. Could be interesting in PvP point of view.

Silferas.3841:

Your goal is to make me an offensive build (on a class other than warrior, S/D thief or spirit ranger for obvious reasons, which should be capable of either dealing sufficient burst, or locking down an enemy with CC while still allowing for good damage).

Just to clarify this, spirit rangers arent played with Berserker amulet.

They are played as condition tanks (if there would be c/v/t in PvP they would take this). This is due to the bugged pets and spirits (in my oppinion). Pets arent effected by rangers stats, that means, their cats burst no matter what the ranger is wearing and the spirits proc too often without requiring a crit or something like that.

Only this allows them to have an high burning uptime and high direct damage with high sustain.

I think they should be allowed too.

The thing with the names beside the numbers is something we could talk about, but not hundreds of fancy colorful pictures destroying a very well designed UI.

But there are other things that need polish and love first

Deimos Tel Arin.7391:

style.6173:

It’s more that warrior and necro both have OP builds right now. Those two classes definitely need some type of change.

wrong. they are fine now.

it is the other professions that need some buffing up.

Buffing the other professions would be totally wrong. If Anet is only buffing the weakest class(es) they run into a big problem. Because there will be no 100% balanced game and one class will be the weakest or one the strongest every time. They can manage to reduce this difference by tweeking numbers, etc. But if they only buff everything, sooner or later everyone will get some kind of godmode because we only can get better and better. Making the game boring and they lose their players.

I am sorry to use that word, because no one likes it, but they have also to nerf the strongest while buffing the weakest class in game to stay on one level.

Right now the warrior is strong in every build/playstyle the game offers. There is nothing a warrior can’t do very well! Other classes can do one or two builds very well but have a huge lack in other parts of the game. I don’t want to say that there should be only one or two builds per class, that would be wrong , too. And the other classes need some buffs there, but there can’t be a class in a game, that has a good build for every situation. What makes the warrior strong in every build is his huge sustain, relatively good damage and his good movement.

Every class needs their downsides or would you love to see a high movement condi necro?

Nike Porphyrogenita.8137:

whyme.3281:

It doesnt have to be this way, what if we could choose a “tank” to make our live easier and take a “healer/support” with us but it would take 40% (2 of 5 dealing less damage) longer than running full DPS but it would be easier.
On the other hand, running full DPS (glasscannon) should be more risky than other setups, but with the reward of being faster (5 of 5 dealing full damage).

This… is what the game already is, minus the “tank” because there is no aggro control skills.

Well… as I said, its not, running full glascannon is the most effective way, but it is not more risky (in most cases) than running with tankier setups or a support, due to the dodges/blocks and slow attacking enemies.

DocHolliday.5921:

Let me try to put it a different way. If players don’t have tools available to tank and out-heal the incoming damage, they have to deal with it another way. This means players have to: a) kill everything fast before they get killed, and b) have a way to avoid taking damage entirely. And developers have no choice but to design fights that way too if they take the tank + heal tools away.

It doesnt have to be this way, what if we could choose a “tank” to make our live easier and take a “healer/support” with us but it would take 40% (2 of 5 dealing less damage) longer than running full DPS but it would be easier.
On the other hand, running full DPS (glasscannon) should be more risky than other setups, but with the reward of being faster (5 of 5 dealing full damage).

This would be the perfect system. But in the current PvE design with enemies only atacking every few seconds with huge hits + dodge, block etc. to evade that damage, this will be impossible to implemented.

In PvP on the other hand this is possible, because dodges arent that effective and enemies are attacking alot faster with lesser damage. There is a balance between bunker builds, burst builds and support builds, that is impossible to implement in the PvE as it is at the moment.

First: all those colored pictures would look really ugly and destroy the style of the game. The traitwindow is clean and has one style. introducing hundreds of colored pictured would mess this up.

Second: how would all the elementalists icons look like? a flame, another flame, …

Third: How would you picture a trait that deals “5% more damage while health is above 90%”, “cast spectral armor when hp below 25%”, … so that everyone understands what this trait does without looking at the text? I think it is impossible to do so. And then there is no difference between remembering a symbol or a roman number.

And last those numbers are clear and everyone understands them (or should be able to). The System works fine, it is easy to understand and logical.

BurrTheKing.8571:

…

They claimed that Warriors had plenty of invuln, which they don’t. At least they don’t have it in the same way as Mist Form or Elixir S. Endure Pain and Zerker Stance make you invuln to one type of damage, but it’s not true invulnerability.

sorry, my bad, thought he has the normal invulnerability than everyone else has.

But that leads me to the question, was he initially designed that his weakness should be conditions. That would explain his high livepool, high regen and high thoughness. And now he gets a condition removal every patch, making him one of the stongest anti condition classes in the game, too now, without any change to the his other defense.

In my oppinion the problem of the warrior in the first month, was his ability to deal damage on moving targets, but that was never adressed/fixed, instead he got everything else buffed. Now someone found a hammer/mace and is benefiting of all those buffs.

An other point that leads people to misinformation is WvW and the PvP done their with PvE armor. The offensive stats in PvE are about 30% higher than in PvP, Which makes 3,3k condi dmg necros with 76% condi duration possible (because there is food and such things), even more with upcoming accended armor. And then people jump in here and talking about bad PvP balance. I think the stats should be matched to each other, otherwise a balance in all aspects of the game is impossible. Which makes those misinformation grow.

What makes them appear strong now it the synergy in their skills, there is no either this trait or that, every trait line is clear, and you have nearly no decision to make, what trait you should take. Ok, every one wants that 10 more traitpoints for his build, but overall, he has the most synergy in his traits.

Dont get me wrong, I too think, warrior is too strong, compared to other classes or at least its made them too easy to be that effective. He has disproportional high health, heal, armor and condi removes plus dealing high damage, which makes him a big thread in the current meta with nearly no counter builds available. (btw you were asked to post them on every class and didnt).
Maybe a team full of CC Warriors wouldnt win a game in tPvP , and they need someone that bursts the stunned people down, but their CC capability compared to their survivabilty and dmg is not balanced at all.

Everything sounds a bit OP to me.

BurrTheKing.8571:

Plenty meaning one skill that makes you invuln to only physical damage on a fairly long cooldown and a block on mace and one on shield?

Armor and HP is not that impressive when compared to protection, Guardians has low base health but the other factors I mentions make them the toughest class in the game.

Little misinformation here. Invulnerability also affects condition damage. While invulnerable you still get damage from them, that’s true. BUT there are no new conditions applied. So you prevent the damage that would hit you later, that’s how conditions work.

Same story for block, blind, dodge and obstacles(positioning). The only thing that effects direct damage only is protection and toughness (and one or two “you get less damage” traits). But on the other hand, for condition damage we have minus condition duration and condition remove.

Oh and read the wiki, there are things like this explained :p

AoE dmg condition remove skill for every class, now its getting absurd.

Hope they remove the condition cap with this too.

This was streamed on twitch last month:
http://www.twitch.tv/guildwars2/c/2925339
It’s a about character creation (It is about new hair styles)

It definitely cover all of their Software but at least a bit.

Bright.9160:

Dante.1508:

Yenn.9185:

It’s the contribution to the party that is a lie. When you’re on bearbow, what do you give to the party? Not dps nor support. There is no wrong way to play the game, but there’s an efficient one. I understand we all don’t play for efficiency, and that’s fine.

But please, humor me that the majority doesn’t want a fast run. Hence, the “exp,” and “zerkers” that the LFG tool is littered with.

We play to have fun, a select few hardcores play to be efficient, but most gamers don’t give a flying kitten if they are efficient or not, as long as they are having fun who cares.

The majority are just happy to be in there enjoying themselves, they don’t care how fast or slow something takes..

There is no right play style, but Zerker at this time is the only real effective play style, i for one would like to see a trinity of sorts dps/control/support not just faceroll dps and non existent rest..

I don’t even hate tank healer dps, it has issues agreed but so does this what we have now..

It’s funny how many people forget that some people actually get their fun out of being efficient. Just because you don’t doesn’t mean others don’t.

As for Zerker being the only real effective playstyle, that’s just plain wrong. You can clear dungeons with any team setup, you’re just going to take longer to do so.

It takes longer yes, but it is not easier/saver to play anything else than berserker.

There is nothing wrong with beeing most efficient with berserker gear, but it should be more risky than defensive stats and that isnt the case in PvE. so risk vs reward is drifting apart with berserker gear. Don’t get me wrong, its not the fault of berserker gear, its the dodge mechanic and the slow attacks of bosses, that makes life that easy for every build.

Inverted.7439:

Bugs? Ranger doesn’t have as many bugs as many other classes, rangers are just a terribly designed class :\

exactly this.

I havent seen many bugs so far, but the complete mechanik we interact with our pet is broken.

Traits and skills feel like: “the ranger and a pet fighting against enemies” and not like “the ranger and his pet fighting together in synergie against enemies”

They only die, because they failed their dodge, but there is no risk if you know how to dodge. And if you dont know how to dodge, the armor you have has nearly no impact.

You should quote the next to word too, then you can read “and traits”.

And even if there is an internal CD, there are other sigil, that can give Conditions on crit or on other circumstances. This doesnt change the fact, that you need crits to maximize condition damage.

mini.6018:

If you compare (p/v/t) and (c/v/t) cvt will win by a longshot dps wise and the same if you compare (t/prec/power) to (t/prec/condi)

This needs to be proofed. But im sure, p/v/t can hit with 700-1k per attack too, like c/v/t can do.

mini.6018:

@ Unleashed.Power build needs precision/power and crit damage to be effective condition only needs condi damage while duration and precision are bonuses.

Preci and crit dmg is a bonus to powerbuild too, its not that easy as you think.

mini.6018:

For condi to be equal to power builds armor statwise the combination should look like this

Power
Precision
Critical DAmage

vs

Condition
Precision
Condition Duration

Wich as a matter of fact could be a good suggestion for someone to make to Arenanet in order to balance conditions once and for all.That and remove condition duration from any rune/sigil and foods,reduce the base condition duration on skills and buff the condi% duration stat on gear to match the current condi duration on builds, in order to make it effective.

Now its getting interesting. Yes, there is no stat combination like this, I would really love to see something like this. But then again, remove everything from runes? why? We have schoolar runes, etc. all give crit dmg, so why no condi duration? Maybe you mean reduce condi duration on runes .

mini.6018:

whyme.3281:

Definatly not, they also need precision to proc sigil of earth and traits and they need condition duration to maximize their damage

Terrahero.9358:

Stop persisting the fantasy that all condition builds just need condition damage.

This is absolute bull guys

sigils =

1 extra bleed every 5 seconds if you have a lot of precision(2 sec cd and 60% to apply a bleed if you crit)

or 3 bleed stacks aoe on 10 second cooldown

There is also toughness gear that gives both prec and condi damage while the quivalent in power would be valkyrie wich is less than half as optimal in comparison dps wise.

So please let’s keep things real.

We are keeping real. As a Conditionbuild you cant maximize your damage without precision, without condition damage, without condition duration, without traits and without sigils and runes. Thats the same as going on full berserker gear.

Saying that condition builds only need condition damage is same as saying “direct damage builds only need power for max damage”

@Divinity: I did the math in my third post, without crit and traits etc. its only 780damage per attack, I cant see, where this is melting someones face compared to direct damage with 4k+ per attack.

It should be balanced around risk vs. reward. And in PvE with a Boss only attacking every 3+ seconds and a dodge ready at the same time there is no risk for berserker builds and the best possible reward (they are fast).

If bosses would attack faster (lets say every second but with lower damage) every build has to eat at least some damage. Maybe some builds are able to tank the damage completely, but then their damage output is small → lower reward because it takes longer.

This would make berserker builds high risk high reward and not the same risk than everyone else and highest reward possible.

The suggestions of the TO wont help here, its the poor boss mechaniks that makes the life in PvE that easy. Compared to PvP we have fast attacks that cant all be dodged. So its high risk vs high reward (damage).

Its simple risk/reward. How much offensive power a build has and how much defensive power.

A range build has lower risk -> lower damage
A melee build has higher risk -> higher damage
A Tanky build has lower risk -> lower damage
In the end, they should all be able to kill each other, some with more effort than other.

There are builds that counter each other but no build, that is unkillable and kills everyone else.

Compare a Warrior with other classes, the warrior is able to do the same things other classes can do right now, as good or even better. This is not balanced.
If I play a glass cannon build, I should feel the missing survivability a) with less damage I deal (but have high base defense)or b) with high dmg I take.

Crafting Accsended weapons was a huge goldsink for nearly no reward. I think it would be better, to trade basic material for dungeon tokens (180 of each dungeon), fraktal relicts(500 per item + 10 pristine fractal relicts) or 750 WvW tokens.
Add some globs of ectoplasma (50) and some (25) T6 mats depending on the stats you want and maybe lodestones if you want a special skin.

And all this thrown into the mystik toilet to get your armor.

Myrmidian Eudoros.4671:

whyme.3281:

Ever played a condition build without condition duration and without precision? They suck.

Generally this is the case, but ranger would like a word with you, and so would Engineer.

Spam focused builds that do not have overwhelming duration or precision can still overpower your cleanses.

The damage a bunker ranger deals comes from their pet or some utility skills, that gives them easier access to conditions. There is a reason that they are strong, but its more their hybrid build and not their DoTs.

And I’m not sure what engi build you are talking about right now. But here counts the same as for the ranger, they have alot of skills, that can apply conditions, grenades, turrets, flamethrower…. plus, they have a very high condition duration on their skills, so they dont need to rely on crits.

But Divinity said necros dont need precision, but the only build that could work like this would be a MM condi bunker build (compareable with ranger bunker). With every other condition build, a nekro need crits to increase his damage.

Without condition duration and without precision, the damage of scepter auto atack of an nekro is:
130 (because crit chance is 4% and 2k attack) and 5*130 bleed(no condition duration) thats an attack of 780dmg on heavy golem per attack. Is this much compared to a full power, no preci, no crit dmg build?

with crits and traits and sigils, you can boost this damage, but this is the same you do with precision, crit dmg, sigils and traits on direct damage builds.

Ever played a condition build without condition duration and without precision? They suck.