Guild Wars 2

GS with my Condition build does not…

Puffendorf.1694:

So, anyone found any decent charr light ones yet? Or asuran when we’re on the armor topic? Tbh, male armors are imo made mostly for humans, all the other races (save sylvari) can more or less go suck it…

I dunno Norn cultural armours are pretty nice.

EasymodeX.4062:

The brutal irony of Mesmers complaining about “having” to use a particular weapon for Orr farming when all other classes are limited to specific weapons as well.

Says the one who favours GS…

“I don’t have problems tagging enough mobs in DE’s. I’m pretty happy with the amount of loot I get just by tossing in Chaos Storm and shooting at mobs with Magic Bullet. When I’m playing a Mesmer, I prefer being on the team that’s helping take down the big, bad boss as opposed to the guy who’s running around mopping up mooks.
I just dislike the fact that whenever somebody makes a complaint about the Mesmer being weaker than most classes when it comes to AoE options, everybody immediately replies, “Use a Greatsword.” There should be more solutions to increasing the Mesmer’s AoE options than just one single weapon, whether that’s by improving the Shatter mechanic, making the bolts from Winds of Chaos move faster, or making Magic Bullet deal more than just negligible damage.”

Seconded.

Spawn.7014:

thanks for all the advice guys. going to have to mess around with weapon set up.

I love the great sword. i will most likely keep that for my ranged option. spinning a great sword to make a lighting bolt…. yeah……

The staff is cool but doesnt really seem to do alot of damage at my level.

Nope, dmg on Staff only ramps up after you get the Extra bounce trait and more Condition damage. After that it’s pretty strong/kind of bursty. That’s why it’s got the toughness trait line, you gotta be near the NPCs to benifit from all that.

GS is very bursty, long range/mid range. I’ve seen some Sword/Focus and or Sword level pretty fast since they go Power/Crit more often. So if I were to “scale” what’s fastest I’d say GS/Sword + off hand is. However, if that isn’t your play style it’ll be slower for you ‘cause if you ain’t enjoying it, it will feel a bit grueling.

Also, take heed as mentioned above Mesmer is pretty slow to level until you start filling out Traits.

Voodoo Tina.4180:

One more thing – while leveling I tried this in cond/precision gear and the GS was underwhelming. Now in toughness/power/precision gear the GS deals more damage, but staff gives so many boons it makes up for the less damage. I do have 10% of toughness as condition damage, which helps make up for the crap gear I’m using.

Yep why I like staff and get up and personal.

Spawn.7014:

EasymodeX.4062:

Always have 5 points into Illusion.

Should i put my first 5 points into it? and should i put any points to increase my HP pool?

It’s really up to you, because before you get to 40 you’ll have 10 in 3 trait lines. It just is a godsend to have 20% CD reduction on Illusion skills.

I agree with Controller that Decoy is a great first skill to get.

A lot of what you’re asking is dependent on how you’d like to play btw.

Voodoo Tina.4180:

Really both have good AoE, they just work differently. Luckily you can swap weapons. I am using both lately and they are a sweet combination. The GS takes them down faster, the staff takes them down more safely.

Clone > Clone > Chaos Storm > Phase Retreat > Mind Wrack > Mirror Blade > Berzerker > Pew Pew > Mirror Blade > Chaos Armor > Clone > Mind Wrack ….

By the way, if you’re combine the clone on dodge trait with the sigil that gives full endurance on kill, you’re obviously a clone factory from hell. Pull a big group and you can always shatter on cool down.

I will definitely give this a go. Sounds interesting.

Oh Easy btw, you are arguing my point I tried to make earlier thanks btw.

Mesmers should not have to be forced into using GS.

EasymodeX.4062:

Again, you guys rely on GS way too much. I don’t see the AoE you guys do. I really don.t You have a bounce, I have a bounce and if it does Fire each time… rather than the others (it’s random) also Chaos Storm + Chaos Armour. Phase Retreat with the CD reductions I’m using it quite a lot.
You forget Chaos Storm is Condition….

1. Phase Retreat doesn’t do damage.

2. You realize iBerserker does AOE damage right? It’s like an AOE iWarlock with a little less damage and bonus cripple?

3. You realize that WOC has a 33% chance to inflict burning? Not 100%? And another 33% for bleed, which helps. Still, only a 2/3s chance to do decent damage.

4. Mind Stab actually hits multiple targets. Needs practice.

5. Chaos Storm has a similar RNG on the chance to inflict Poison over Daze or Chill.

6. Chaos Armor has a similar RNG on the chance for Confusion, which is … Confusion.

Yes and Phase Retreat pops clones pretty quickly. Again I am a Shatter not Phantasms, I actually shatter them quite consistently (phantasms).

Phase Retreat gives me more survivability btw. As I stated before I am really stacked to take a beating for a Mesmer.

I still think my Chaos Storm + Chaos Armour + Staff Bounce (somewhat Prestige + Scepter main hand while the others are on CD) and how often I shatter is more AoE. It’s an opinion and yes I have used GS and know what it does.

It’d be one thing if I relied on Phantasms.

What you feel comfortable with… honestly.

EasymodeX.4062:

So … you’re saying that the advantage for staff is that you will be downed and have mobs low from condition damage?

Despite the fact that GS has superior AOE and will probably have most of the mobs dead anyways?

No… he’s saying you can aoe better by switching tgts and relying on Condition damage than straight out burst.

Again, you guys rely on GS way too much. I don’t see the AoE you guys do. I really don.t You have a bounce, I have a bounce and if it does Fire each time… rather than the others (it’s random) also Chaos Storm + Chaos Armour. Phase Retreat with the CD reductions I’m using it quite a lot.

You forget Chaos Storm is Condition….

ControllerJacobs.2843:

I could see mobs being a problem on a GS build, particularly one where you have focused your traits on power/precision and minimized condition damage.

With a staff/condition damage build, the approach is more straightforward:
1. Switch targets, put two conditions on as many as possible, using illusions, movement + dodge to avoid attack.
2. Once cornered, switch to sceptre/sword, block and shatter (and stealth, if you have torch).
Even if overwhelmed, if there are enough targets with multiple conditions (plus maybe an offensive illusion), you’ll rally and can use illusions to sneak around and repeat the process.

But of course that’s staff. I’ve been playing GS/Sceptre with no condition damage, and could see eventually switching to staff/sword because of the potential mob issue. I think it’s fair to pose the question to the GW2 devs about whether they considered the impact of fairly common build having little/no aoe and little/no condition damage.

Exactly how I play… actually.

EasymodeX.4062:

I found it very long… and enduring… again because of lack of AoE… Again I speak to using a Staff and Scepter/AoE 20/0/20/0/30. I’m probably the most specced as an AoE a mesmer can get.

Are you trolling?

AOE = GS and Focus/Sword and vaguely staff. You’re about as “non-AOE” as a Mesmer can get. Edit: Although you do have IP and I assume Mental Torment, so not completely off-target.

Yes and I use Prestige for some AoE (and breathing room). Sometimes I switch to Imbued Diversions if it’s a lot of AoE (like the Hylek undead raid woulda been nice to have that). I seem to pull aggro like no other…

I think you jumped the gun there… again Shatters… if I am really AoEing hard I switch to Scepter to mass Confuse (using stun/more stacks of confusion/more likely to be able to pop immunity) more so, it seems to work well as a Shatter build. Though my guildies do make fun of how much I switch weapons. My Dom Master Trait one I play with a lot btw too (condition removal if I know the battle has a lot, etc)

To me GS has longer AoE CDs than what I am using plus don’t mesh well with how I play the staff as up close and personal. I count Chaos Armour as an AoE too btw which you can almost have up all the time if you Phase Retreat in Chaos Storm along with popping it.

My only complaint with Confusion is how buggy it is with stacking… I’ve seen my 10 stacks disappear even though I am applying it…

Badaboom.4216:

I think if they tweaked Mesmers illusions/Phantasms so that they didn’t die immediately with the death of a mob. Change it so that they would stick around and attack a new targt you attack but disappear after 5 seconds of inactivity.

This would solve the problem that everyone has been in with group PVE when the mob dies in 2 seconds.

It’d help, sometimes the NPCs heroes would kill my target before I could set up my 3 AoE… so I got used to maybe 1 or 2 in there.

Also, people forget some Clone Creation can be problematic, Staff’s for instance is a back TP so if you’re moving and under pressure you can easily tag in another group… or your clones do…

A lot of people are hung on people saying it’s difficult, when no one is really saying it’s difficult but that the lack of AoE hurts in how long it can be to do some of the similar content.

I also agree because we are pretty good at soloing champions… this might be our compensation… though if I have to restate it I will, my Healing/Tank/Zeal Guardian also just does fine against Champions. I’ll watch a glass canon Guardian try the same thing and go kersplat though. Which brings me back to my initial statement, everyone who clamours against this idea all focus on GREATSWORD. Why should we be so cookiecutter eh?

Would it really hurt if we got an AoE Skill?

Evo Sapien.5298:

lollie.5816:

Claw Island is easy on all classes, no idea why anyone would bring that up as a mark of respect.

You seemed confused Lollie so let me help you out.

Claw Island is so ridiculously easy just about any class can handle it many many levels before 50.

Its not a mark of respect, or achievement. its a joke. The Op says that he realised how bad his mesmer was when doing claw island. This simply cannot be possible unless he is just not capable of playing mesmer correctly.

Please read the thread before posting. it will save you these pointless offtopic discussions in future.

I found it very long… and enduring… again because of lack of AoE… Again I speak to using a Staff and Scepter/AoE 20/0/20/0/30. I’m probably the most specced as an AoE a mesmer can get.

I died once because I drew in another mob on me, so my fault. However, I then did the next step with a Guardian and Theif guildy… much faster… more AoE.

Gaiawolf.8261:

thehunt.9315:

So I don’t use roll+illusion creation, I don’t use a lot of what those who favour GS use. A lot of you keep trying to box how a Mesmer should be traited/played. I’ve played a Guardian, Necromancer, and an Elementalist and if you play them you definitely see the AoE damage differences.

It’s not that we are trying to tell you how to play your mesmer, it’s that certain weapons and traitlines are generally designed for certain playstyles. Anet didn’t design this game like most other MMOs where you can pick your skills and talents how you want and then pair them with just about any weapon that looks cool and has great stats. Each weapon was designed from the ground up for certain playtsyles. This is true for all classes, not just the mesmer.

A lot of people here seem like they are using builds with heavy defensive or utility functions (like scepter/torch and chaos/inspiration) and then complaining that they are bad because they cannot kill as fast as an axe warrior. We are just trying to direct those people to a more direct damage build since it seems that is what they are complaining about.

If you want good, solid direct damage, GS and MH sword/pistol were designed for that playstyle (ranged and skirmishing respectively). So don’t try to do it with weapons not designed for that task. If you want a defensive set, scepter and torch are king. Staff, focus, and OH sword are so versatile it really depends on how you gear and trait for how you play them, but even with these weapons certain trait loadouts are better for some playstyles than others.

Yes I understand that, in my guild there’s another Mesmer who’s more Crit and is GS/SnS and he does more bursty damage but suffers from being far my squishy So relies on the distance etc.

However, both of us hurt when it comes to AoE and I less so… (I’m shatter and he’s phantasm more).

That’s my point… They should give us a Skill AoE IMO and it’d solve a lot.

A great leader is one who knows when to cut their losses and retreat (it saves lives and prevents further unnecessary deaths). It doesn’t mean surrender.

It fits the Guardian.

Lucubration.8361:

• When you want to re-discover your appreciation for any other profession, play a Necro.

Sorry Engies and Elementalists; I really don’t know you that well.

My Necro seems to do really well traited in a support roll though lol.

Hmmm reading through all the posts it seems those who favour Greatsword are the ones clamouring against. Those of us who favour other weapons see the difficulties.

I agree with the OP, we are not bad in PvE but we do lack in the AoE damage department compared to the other classes.

FYI, I am a Dom, Chaos, Illusion specced out mainly using Staff with Scepter/Torch. So I moslty do condition damage and no I don’t use sharper images again, it’s not how I play and it’s not sub-optimal, I’m mostly a tank Mesmer.

So I don’t use roll+illusion creation, I don’t use a lot of what those who favour GS use. A lot of you keep trying to box how a Mesmer should be traited/played. I’ve played a Guardian, Necromancer, and an Elementalist and if you play them you definitely see the AoE damage differences.

I’ll give a go at Sword mainhand but I am mostly focused on condition damage (for staff/Chaos Storm/Chaos Armour/Shatter+condition on death) and see.

Also my Guardian is again “Tank” specced out and solos champions with all his heals and blocks, yes I do favour the toughness trait lines.

EasymodeX.4062:

Oh and when people say that if you lose a 1vs1 when you’re moad you would’ve lost anyway without it is quite laughable.

^

The laughable part is that TW is better than Moa in 2v2 or more. TW gives the players roughly 2x the combat power. They go from 4502 power to over 9000. Moa subtracts 90% of a player’s combat power for 10 seconds, basically delaying the fight unless the Moa-ee isn’t ready for it and panics.

In a normal fight where you have two 2251 players versus two 2251 players, TW would make it 4502 versus 9004.

If a player Moa’d someone on the second team, it would be 4502 versus 4952.

As you can see, the team with TW still wins in a 2v2.

Yep I run TW or my Sylvari elite 3 sec invul + seed bombs/extra fun for tab targeters.

Kintari.4172:

Kelesti.2458:

When people were getting shredded by Hundred Blades Warriors, they weren’t getting 10 seconds to live (because they played badly).

Hundred Blades CHARGE WAP WAP -> Shadowstep -> /dance
Moa -> ??? LOL! Y U SO BAD!

If you missed the tell on Hundred Blades, you didn’t have 10 seconds to live. You had no control over your character, and were dead almost instantly.

LOL no? See above.

The fact that people don’t know how to respond to it before (or stand there like a moron after) is what gets them killed.

This is an excellent point. I’ve been wanting to ask the Mesmer community, what does your ideal rotation of chomp, kick, peck, and screech look like? Also, for your “Moa Form” build, do you build for greater range on beak attacks, fluffier feathers, or sharper claws? What do you slot for your gap closer / escape? I’ve been meaning to do the theory crafting but just haven’t gotten around to it yet.

If you have a problem, skill up.

If your definition of ‘skill’ involves taking all of mine off my action bars for 10 seconds, I think I’ll pass, thanks!

Usually I just push all four and Ctlr+click for auto attack #1 (there is enough PvE hearts to teach you how to use transformations) if I have time… it’s only 10 seconds…

I believe someone said it earlier, people just having some bruised ego problems because the there’s that illusion you’re not in control. Though you can still move, dodge and attack. You even get a heal and a daze for 10 secs… far from being useless.

You are not useless and sitting there waiting to die as a Pink Moa…

You have a heal and a daze and even in PvE when turning an NPC into one they still hurt…

How come the NPCs are smart enough to use the Daze and not many of the human players ?

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Juvenile_Pink_Moa

Something to consider that I believe a lot of folks are missing about the Grove, it itself is a huge “house”. It’s a living Tree and it “houses” all the Sylvari.

I agree with everyone that the Sylvari are more Communistic/more Socialist in their approach to life and living arrangements. Even the Luminary’s houses are filled with other sprouts that they are teaching. The main hall in the grove is shared by everyone. Take into consideration you can also just walk into each Luminary’s house too. The small “houses” we see in Sylvari colonies aren’t even “very personalized” the whole area is a shelter.

The strong idea of individuality (as subscribed by others) is thrown into a contortion when you have a race of people who all dream and share empathic bonds with one another. It’s why the Nightmare Court are such a horror to the Sylvari.

The Soundless might evolve to be more “human” like.

Well I consider the Sylvari with their lore background pretty unique, the idea of a plant based sentient lifeform isn’t new.

The Sylvan from DAoC

http://camelotherald.wikia.com/wiki/Sylvan

Elementalists are weak ? What??? I play both and a guardian! Quite honestly Elementalists have something we don’t and they do it it well, Massive AoEs (especially with Staff).

I do notice a great number going Water and Air and few going Earth and Fire… (Personally I went Arcana/Earth/Air), I’ve noticed a lot don’t Attune Dance either…

Mesmers have it in the bag for being able to pull the poo into a shine, much like a Guardian (I love both of mine!). They are designed to do this though…

Give doing damage back to Clones. That is all, thanks.

Unless they are magically seeing through every clone…. which I have had happen. Especially with Dredge.

Mayama.1854:

thehunt.9315:

I know Chaos Storm is probably one of the most horrifying AoEs for more folks (ask around) Mesmers are considered very fierce pvp opponents in WvWvW. Not so much solo though.

Are you kidding? A mesmer is a monster “solo”. Its the worst nightmare beside a backtab/bleed thief that you can face 1v1.

No I’m not kidding, I take out Mesmers easily on my Guardian. I don’t know if it’s because I play both classes or not… but I find Mesmers one of the easiest 1v1 on it.

I’m not saying Mesmers are bad 1v1 or not scary (to some of my guildies they really are) just saying with a group they are far more devastating.

Child-like, Fae, and sense of the Arthurian Culture/Mythology behind them.

I mean Furby… Formis you look awesome.

Stay away from pastels… unless you are a pastel Sylvari… best suggestion I could give anyone.

The Sylvari really are a race you “plan ahead” when using the cultural armours from the char creation. They plan to release a pay/diamond redo which would alleviate some problems people are having.

I’ve found the Tier 1 Cloth for my character to be the hardest but the Tier 2 and Tier 3 have much more wiggle room, because the Gold Stems from my body colour aren’t as pronounced so I was limited what worked well (Dark Greens, Oranges, Reds).

Other than that, I really really like them. Formis you could probably use next to all the Midnight ____ dyes.

And we still have the possibility of another tree in Maguma Wastes/Magus Falls. The Sylvari we meet there (I surmise is a First Born of that tree) is more sided with the Dream Sylvari and not the Nightmare Sylvari.

The Nightmare Court just seems consumed by hate and anger. The Sylvari are empathetic and follow much of their emotions, but the Dream Sylvari advocate a moderation as one said “Moderation is good for everything, even for moderation” – Paraphrased.

Take some time listening to the NPCs in the cities (or even the Nightmare court are you get disguised in), you can learn a lot. A Jotan in Hoelbrak talks about how the Norn and Jotan with the Gift of Magic given to everyone (before the Exodus of the Gods etc) were mainly the rulers of Tyria.

I do not think the Pale Tree is hiding anything, she doesn’t even advocate attacking the Nightmare court and so far only other Sylvari say they can not return to the Dream. The Pale Tree herself never says that.

I know Chaos Storm is probably one of the most horrifying AoEs for more folks (ask around) Mesmers are considered very fierce pvp opponents in WvWvW. Not so much solo though. I’ve been literally single targeted chased in my horde group, though a Guardian can do some of things we do just not so much reflect/conditions being laid down. Now that’s PvP in WvWvW and I haven’t done Arenas to know how that goes.

I do agree they need to look at the Mesmer and give us a bit more something, we lack AoE and our Burst is faint… that multiple respawns really become annoying on my mesmer, where as my defense oriented Guardian just whack-a-moles the same content.

Right now I think they should up our baseline dmg… quite a bit until they figure how to “balance” us.

I’d echo Necormancer or a Earth specced Ele.

And to add, had you gone with the “Moon Shield”, you’d have helped out a “heterosexual” couple with their tangled love mess. And that’s “thrown in your face” from the bat too.

Firstly the Green Night and the opening couple is not “being thrown in your face” it makes sense with the story. It’d be no different than if a boyfriend/girl friend of the pair had come up to you asking to intervene.

The Green Night then jumps to helping a “female” Sylvari who’s boyfriend was killed by the Green Night and if you’re a “male” Sylvari even makes overtures to you sometimes.

Sounds like your first sentence is bearing false witness honestly.

It’d help if the flags actually did indicate that… I’ve gone when they are blowing and no wind…

The flags and flames do nothing… i mean absolutely nothing… to indicate when the wind is going to show up.