Guild Wars 2

Lord Kuru.3685:

Buttercup.5871:

It’s a sad day for this game if we have to ask for refunds on such fine harvesting tools. But we should probably all do the same as Wanze.

The very strong impression I was given at the time was that this tool would remain the best tool out there, certainly for the (real) money I paid for it. I even recall a thread on this very forum calling Anet out on this, suspecting the current scenario (or a version of it) would happen. Anet did not react at the time, so I assumed my purchase was safe.

All you’d be doing is telling them it’s ok go push further into pay-to-win territory.

If they simply ignore over two thousand outcries of genuine concern, we’re already deeper into that territory than anyone realizes. It means both the battle and the war has been lost. It’s sad, but I’ve seen this before; in a big MMO from the mother company of Anet.

Other than that: other than quitting, there simply is no other remedy left than requesting a refund. Do I want a different pick? No. Do I need the sprockets? No. But I also don’t like the feeling of having been cheated. And yes, you can cheat someone without actually lying. And I’m a lawyer, I should know (sorry Mystic)

Fun reading: this guy foreshadowed it wayyyyy back:

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/bltc/Infinite-Gathering-Tools-Trickery/first

It’s the same tool, it works the same way, it just gives a material that cannot be harvested reliably by anything else in Tyria. Trickery? Heck yea.

Sauzo.6821:

Wanze.8410:

They will definately not change the pick now its released. The question for me is, if they gonna add that feature to the old picks as well or if they give out refunds for the old ones, if you buy the new one. If we dont hear any feedback until monday, i will buy the new one and ask for a refund for my old one.

They will not give you a refund. I already put a ticket in for one. Their response was “Purchases from the Gem Store are seldom refundable, and in this case we are not able to provide a refund of your purchase. We encourage you to exercise care when conducting all your gem transactions.” I’d love to respond with I’d exercise more care when you quit exercising deceitful practices like offering the Molten Alliance trio of tools for 2850 gems and then 1-2 months later after you took all the money, put out another item which trumps what I just purchased…..keep backhanding your customers Anet and see where you are in a few months……

Did you simply ask for a refund for the old one or did you already buy the new one and now are stuck with 2 picks?

Sauzo.6821:

I’m waiting for the next gen pick since they will have to up the game with the sprocket pick. Something like “The Pick of the Devs! This self repairing pick straight from the computers of the devs has a chance to add a precursor to the rewards when used to mine ore veins!”

Stay tuned in 6 months for “The Pick to end all picks! This self repairing pick straight from NcSoft’s Bean counters desk has a chance of adding $100 dollars to your account through your credit card to the rewards when used to mine ore veins!”

After that, it will be GW3 and we will get copper picks that add nothing and the whole process will restart.

Your fantasies do not justify your position.
Just because Boris the Purple Moose told you that this may happen, doesn’t mean it will happen.

Buttercup.5871:

If they simply ignore over two thousand outcries of genuine concern, we’re already deeper into that territory than anyone realizes. It means both the battle and the war has been lost. It’s sad, but I’ve seen this before; in a big MMO from the mother company of Anet.

Other than that: other than quitting, there simply is no other remedy left than requesting a refund. Do I want a different pick? No. Do I need the sprockets? No. But I also don’t like the feeling of having been cheated. And yes, you can cheat someone without actually lying. And I’m a lawyer, I should know (sorry Mystic)

Hello lawyer-person! guess I should of saw that one coming. Though in my defense, I was referring more to us not being in a court of law rather than RL professions.

People are buying. Working as intended. No response needed.

Wanze.8410:

Sauzo.6821:

Wanze.8410:

They will definately not change the pick now its released. The question for me is, if they gonna add that feature to the old picks as well or if they give out refunds for the old ones, if you buy the new one. If we dont hear any feedback until monday, i will buy the new one and ask for a refund for my old one.

They will not give you a refund. I already put a ticket in for one. Their response was “Purchases from the Gem Store are seldom refundable, and in this case we are not able to provide a refund of your purchase. We encourage you to exercise care when conducting all your gem transactions.” I’d love to respond with I’d exercise more care when you quit exercising deceitful practices like offering the Molten Alliance trio of tools for 2850 gems and then 1-2 months later after you took all the money, put out another item which trumps what I just purchased…..keep backhanding your customers Anet and see where you are in a few months……

Did you simply ask for a refund for the old one or did you already buy the new one and now are stuck with 2 picks?

I asked for a refund based on the fact I bought the old molten alliance one when they were released and then bought the bone pick when it came out just to have a different skin since they both functioned the same. Then they released this one which has a bonus my other 2 don’t have so in effect, it renders my other 2 useless since the new one is acct bound as well and who in their right mind would use the older ones over the new one if you had the choice. Thus my old ones will just sit in an alts backpack collecting dust. So the short answer, I’m stuck with 3 picks, 1 useful one and 2 that sit on an alt collecting dust.

Regardless though, the point isn’t about sprockets, it’s about the vertical progression of this item and how if they do it this one item, why not do it to other items or gear or skills or anything in game really. Hell im waiting for them to add legendary armor that will make ascended armor obsolete or maybe legendary trinkets or back items.

I’m done though. You all know Anet is not going to do anything about this and if the sales are good, they will probably add more stuff like this in the future. So be prepared for a new better version of the pick in a few months.

Gibson.4036:

People are buying. Working as intended. No response needed.

I bought one myself on the day it was released – for some time now I wanted to buy unlimited gathering tools, but missed the new year’s sale. So when I saw a new one in store I bought it instantly, especially since it matches my engineer.
But there was no info about bonus sprockets in the gem store. I was pretty surprised when I got a few of them on a second node. Only then I went to the forums and found out about that 20% sprocket bonus. Now think about it – how many people go to the site first before they buy something, to check a FULL description of the item.

Sauzo.6821:

I asked for a refund based on the fact I bought the old molten alliance one when they were released and then bought the bone pick when it came out just to have a different skin since they both functioned the same. Then they released this one which has a bonus my other 2 don’t have so in effect, it renders my other 2 useless since the new one is acct bound as well and who in their right mind would use the older ones over the new one if you had the choice. Thus my old ones will just sit in an alts backpack collecting dust. So the short answer, I’m stuck with 3 picks, 1 useful one and 2 that sit on an alt collecting dust.

They will not refund for buyer’s remorse:

Gaile Gray.6029:

To be clear, here’s what I wrote about the “same item” requirement: The refund process is intended for duplicates of the same item. For example, if you had two Bone Picks, we could refund one. But with two separate items, the refund offer does not apply because they are different items, even if the function is the same.

Oh I really didn’t expect Anet to refund me but was worth a try. It opened my eyes though to be wary of purchasing anything from them since with this item, we all can clearly see which direction they are going. I imagine every 6 months or so they will start pumping out an “upgraded” version of an item to keep the cash flowing in the gem store. I’ve played enough MMOs to know that in most case, once they get your money, you will see very little response or help unless they want more of your money.

I’m still not convinced it’s a problem – if you have the “bonus” home instance nodes you have an endless supply of candy corn, quartz, etc. A mining pick that gives a bonus once in a while is not as much of a big deal as people seem to think.

The only surprising thing is that people are surprised. It’s a business, and they are going to do things that they think will make money. It’s not shocking.

@Tolunart: they don’t have to, no. But it’s one sure way to alienate your paying customer base.

Wow. We’re still discussing this in the absence of any feedback from the devs. The silence on this is deafening. I’m truly surprised, I had not expected this. I really started believing these guys would be different. I mean, to their credit, they made some really good decisions until this moment.

A-guys and gals, if you’re reading this, I’d rather have you tell us your strategy for the future now, than find out over time. Be honest, fess up your dirty sins, and we might understand, we’re all grown ups. But this, this doesn’t work. The silent treatment doesn’t cut it anymore. If I wanted that I’d still be playing Aion.

They must still be selling like hotcakes then. If nobody was buying them and complaining then we might hear from them. Complaining and still buying them is like ravaging the dessert bar while complaining how all these desserts are bad for you.

Buttercup.5871:

I really started believing these guys would be different. I mean, to their credit, they made some really good decisions until this moment.

Thanx for reminding me why I read these forums – it’s a never-ending source of entertainment.

After many years of playing MMOs, one thing I have learned is never put your faith in them. You be let down constantly. All companies are the same, businessmen. They really care less about the enjoyment or satisfaction as long as the bottom line is met and that’s really all that matters to them. Once a game becomes non profitable, they will dump it like a hot potato and move on. That being said with the sour taste in my mouth and all, I probably will still purchase one of the new picks just cause I know Anet will do nothing to rectify this.

From using the Watchwork Pick over the last few days, I can confirm that:

1. It DOES still give special bonus items like gems or 5 extra Quartz from strikes. (I got a gem AND a sprocket from the same strike on the Copper Node in my Home Instance.)

2. It DOES still allow for extra strikes on a node.

3. I have still yet to confirm whether or not it actually removes the chance to get 2 × 1 material from a single strike, at least on normal nodes.

But back to the topic at hand, I’m getting quite concerned about their silence over this matter too. Sauzo’s experience is worrying, but it may be a result of them not having yet come to a conclusion over what to do about this situation.

Behellagh.1468:

They must still be selling like hotcakes then. If nobody was buying them and complaining then we might here from them. Complaining and still buying them is like ravaging the dessert bar while complaining how all these desserts are bad for you.

The interesting thing is most people are probably buying it thinking it’s like any other pick. It doesn’t say in the store that it mines sprockets so how are people to even know that? So, if they are selling like hotcakes, I don’t believe people are buying them just because they harvest sprockets, but because they want an unlimited pick or they missed out the last time around.

Having said that, I find it extremely funny how so many of you (this is not directed at you particularly Behellagh) are complaining, yet half of you have either already bought it or claim to be buying it in the near future. You either take a stand and don’t give them the sales or you keep your mouth shut and buy it. You can’t have it both ways.

I bought one because I needed another for my Home Instance-parked mule. With 6 mining nodes to mine every day now, he was burning through standard picks too quickly and replacing them was becoming a hassle. If the Molten Pick had still been around instead of the Watchwork Pick, I’d have bought that.

And despite having bought one, I’d STILL prefer it if the sprocket harvesting was removed from the Watchwork Pick. I stand by my claim that it is a direction ANet should not be going in.

Asmodeus.5782:

Well, it’s hard to respond in any way except ‘lol, because we could’. They’ve basically cheated all players who bought the infinite tools before. I got 7 sets. I should know. ;D

I have to agree. That probably is the case.

mtpelion.4562:

Keep in mind that we forum dwellers represent a minority of players. It will be the sales figures that tell them anything useful, not complaints here.

If this pick sells well, you can expect more in the future. If it does not sell well, then the experiment will end.

Let them sell all they want and people will buy it but i REALLY HOPE more and more people will stop playing GW2 thanks to ideas like gem store has lately.

I can say for myself I’m sick of it!

Crikey, I must be the only player left who has never bought any of the unlimited harvesting tools. These seemed a bad idea to me from the start, too expensive and very annoying animations. Now, with this new pick, it all seems rather like slimy marketing.

Anet has hit some new lows recently when they should be bending over backwards to keep players happy. If they think that CDI crap will do the trick, they are fooling themselves.

I pre-ordered ESO the other day, so the clock is ticking …

Behellagh.1468:

They must still be selling like hotcakes then. If nobody was buying them and complaining then we might hear from them. Complaining and still buying them is like ravaging the dessert bar while complaining how all these desserts are bad for you.

This.

Or perhaps they don’t care about the long term effects of this because they’ve already given up on the game and just want to do a cash grab before it all ends.

Lord Kuru.3685:

Behellagh.1468:

They must still be selling like hotcakes then. If nobody was buying them and complaining then we might hear from them. Complaining and still buying them is like ravaging the dessert bar while complaining how all these desserts are bad for you.

This.

Or perhaps they don’t care about the long term effects of this because they’ve already given up on the game and just want to do a cash grab before it all ends.

Maybe gem store team.
Others seems to fight for this game survival. I love what they did and do in terms of updates. I got a lot of fun while playing and I wont deny it was worth all money I put into the game.

Yet the term of having fun is hard to gasp when I fell disrespected and offended when I even think about Trading Post and Gem Store that i part of it. They mastered making me feel bad for spending my cash just because I did it before and now now.

Septemptus.7164:

Maybe gem store team.

There is no gem store team. Only Arenanet. Every decision they make is theirs as a whole. They read these fora, they have seen the outrage. Somebody at the top made the decision to choose cash grab over content, and it was implemented. That’s the end of it. Gemstore items will continue to offer unique economic advantages that cannot reliably be acquired in any other way. And their silence tells you with 100% certainty that it will get much worse than this.

That is why my real money support purchases with the gemstore must end here. I would be OK with this entirely new direction if they were open about it. But silence on something as large as this is not acceptable.

Other than that, it’s pretty bad that one gemstore item can already outshine every other exact same gemstore item in effectiveness a month after the last version has been (re-) released. I mean, now it’s a sprocket pick, next up: the ect-o-matic. And the possibilities for cash-grabs are virtually endless. For example: a new item is upcoming, called “vial of eternal mist essence” (see wiki). Let’s say you need 50 of those accound bound essences to craft one of the new legendaries. And let’s say you can only get these as a rare chance from harvesting plants. But here comes the sweet part. Your chance to obtain one is much higher if you use the new “sickle of the mists”!

I did not even know/realize that this mining pick was any diffrent until i read here about it! Its a bit sad that they want to sell gems that badly to make such minor changes. I dontate some every now and then because its a good game and i do respect the crew.
But everything is so pricey that you hardly get anything with 800 gems.
Buying gems for gold is really expensive, and farming is not much of an option.
Really keys for 8-10 gold each, with 00045328769565,6% chance on something cool…
Everything on the TP doesnt seem wurthy enough to spend so much gold on.
Only things that i buy are expansion tabs, character slots and the perma items. and sometimes a cool skin.

And now a new mining pick, i would want it but 800 gems! And my other pick will be useless then, throwing away 800 gems… If we could turn in our tools to get the better version adding 100-200 gems then i would happely do so! Right now, i do not feel like playing this game with them.

so um any response yet anywhere on the forums?

dAcIaW.5107:

so um any response yet anywhere on the forums?

The latter portion of this thread discusses the issue with Gaile Gray (she needs a pay raise for always being the one to deal with these types of things – looking at you flamekissed).

From what I can tell, we are basically left with:

• Point out the exact place you saw us state that you’ll never need to buy another pick again or we won’t do anything and everything continues on and we’ll sell whatever we want even if many people do not like the direction we’re taking the gem store to boost sales despite the potential obsolescence of previously sold and purchased items or how close to or how far across the pay-to-win line we go (in all definitions of the term). However, even if you do find where we said that, we may find a way around that wording to where we don’t need to refund or add anything to any items and you can bet there will be future items with this (and worse) style of marketing applied to them as well.

Those are my words. I’m not quoting anyone directly, though that is the feeling I took away from what was actually written in that thread.

Basically…it’s over. They seem, not only fine with this new direction, but surely have intentions of pushing this style of marketing even further despite many being against it. Do not expect an official response in this thread or other related threads regarding this subject (and likely any future subjects related to gem store products ‘seeming to cross the line’).

wow, this thread reminds me why I try to avoid reading game forums of what games I’m playing.

This thread has ONLY 74 replies and many of the replies state like it’s true fact “Everyone is upset about this issue…” really?? Do you have facts and figures, a signed petition to state that out of all players 90% of them are unhappy with this choice? Does anyone here (not including staff) even know for a FACT how many people play this game to make those claims? …

and also what with the: “why can’t we have an immediate response from official Anet staff because I’m upset!???” So demanding some of you.

I have no issue with this pick and I have bought one. I’ve googled what I can use my watchwork sprokets on and aren’t really thrilled, but I don’t have buyers remorse, I figure they’ll come in handy some time and that’s good enough for me. And I’m an adult, I I choose to spend my money where I feel like it, just like everyone else.

ArenaNet would do as much as they can to boost their gem store sales. Let this statement sink in and you would never be surprised or disappointed, by their actions, again.

If you really want the new mining pick, then go buy it, even though you already have the old one. Why? Because ArenaNet purposefully designed the new mining pick to make people feel that way. If you were surprised by that, then you are just naive by believing that it is their goal to help you save your money, rather than make you spend more money in their gem store.

Voodoo.8041:

This thread has ONLY 74 replies

This thread was created after 1 thread on the general forum started by Vol was closed. It had over a thousand responses. A second thread was started on the general forum with an equal amount of posts which is still ongoing. Besides those, there are three other thread that discuss the various ramifications of this issue in the BL section of the forum, as well as the thread started initially by dev Gayle Gray cited by stin vec, above.

Buttercup.5871:

Voodoo.8041:

This thread has ONLY 74 replies

This thread was created after 1 thread on the general forum started by Vol was closed. It had over a thousand responses. A second thread was started on the general forum with an equal amount of posts which is still ongoing. Besides those, there are three other thread that discuss the various ramifications of this issue in the BL section of the forum, as well as the thread started initially by dev Gayle Gray cited by stin vec, above.

10 people writing 10 posts each in 10 different threads does not make a thousand responses. Posters tend to forget that the forums involve a tiny percentage of millions of accounts, a slightly larger percentage of active players, and a large percentage of disgruntled players for whom no response less than immediate and complete obedience will ever be adequate.

You can pick any controversial subject – ascended gear, Legendary grinding, the Living Story, the pace of updates, server populations, BL chests, cultural armor reskins in the gem shop, warriors – and point to multiple threads with several passionate individuals arguing about how unfair it is to players. Many of those names appear in multiple threads, but none of them clearly represent the will of the player base as a whole.

It’s the devs’ responsibility to consider the whole player base and what is best for the game itself, not just listen to whomever yells the loudest. In matters related to the gem store, there are clear indications of approval or disapproval in the patterns of sales of items over time. If you want Anet to listen to you, stop buying gems, whether with cash or gold, and stop purchasing items from the shop. The sales numbers send a clearer message to the devs about how many people support the game than the forums ever will.

I already took that into account into my calculations, Tolunart. Vol’s thread had triple the amount of posts I stated. Nice way to derail the discussion though. If stating my opinion on power creep through harvesting tools is pointless, and gemstore deception is an unworthy topic as we should all only “speak with our wallets”, why are you posting a lengthy response in the first place? Why is it that people expressing genuine concern on this forum “shout” and are “disgruntled”?

The funny thing is: this thread’s title is “why no response”, whereas Gayle Gray now provided a response in another thread, directing players to this section of the forum for further discussion. A bit odd, but the fact that she engaged in a discussion on this was a very good start.

Actually the people running this game are NcSoft. They are the publishers, Anet is just the devs so the bottom line is called by NcSoft who if you played Lineage 2 or Aion, you know full well they are a cash grab shop company that really only cares about the mighty dollar and care less about the game itself. Pretty much get used to stuff like the new pick as the new norm or start looking for a new game.

This is the bussiness model theyve moved towards, obviously they didnt advertise it but it goes a little something like this.

“We will have you pay over and over for the same stuff you already bought”

Its why we see Ascended Gear.

Hey look at that, better gear, a flat out statistical improvement with an additional socket.. ahem, i mean “infusion”. Hey MMO-gamers, its better, so you want it.
To bad those skins you bought previously are now stuck on litterally worst gear. But chin up! Here, buy these to transfer the skins to your new improved gear or better yet buy the whole skin again.

Also, we totally didnt make crafting purposely super grindy we swear. By the way, we’re selling crafting boosters.

Stay tuned as we roll out Super Ascended gear in a couple of months time, so we can get you pay a 3th time for that skin you bought.

Here, also buy this skin we wholesale ripped from ourselves! The human cultural armor, only we made it better! Wow, you seem kittened… maybe reel that one in a little…

In the meantime, hey everyone who bought the convenience of a permanent gathering tool, look at this undeniably superior permanent gathering tool thats just flat out better.
We promise we wont kitten with the economy just to bump up its usefullness… honest, you know we’re good for it. But if we do, we will stop after we release the super-duper mark3 gathering tools after these that are even a step better!

Oh yes, i like where this is going. This slope is more slippery then a politician under oath.

Terrahero.9358:

This is the bussiness model theyve moved towards, obviously they didnt advertise it but it goes a little something like this.

“We will have you pay over and over for the same stuff you already bought”

Of course, what else would you expect them to do? Like I have said, it is their goal to make you spend as much money in the gem store as possible, not to help you save money.

Granted it shows that they have ran out of ideas for new high demand items in their gem store, so they recycled an old idea that worked well, with a new twist. Without that new twist, then there is no reason for that new pick, when the old pick is still around. New purchases for the old unlimited pick must be running out of steam so they need to do something to kick start gem purchases again. What is so surprising about that?

This game is feeling more and more like a business plan with a game attached than a game with a business plan attached.

mtpelion.4562:

Talonblaze.3175:

mtpelion.4562:

Leaving out a bonus feature is NOT false advertising.

Well, its still not something that is allowed in common day marketing iirc, even if the technical term might be something else. It’s still omitting information that could affect purchases, be it for itself or others.

It absolutely is allowed. Omitting unnecessary information from your advertising is perfectly fine and happens all the time.

Uh.
Given that this is the thing that separates This pick from the Molten-Bone picks, this is extremely necessary. It’s like selling a car and not telling them one of the new features. I doubt anyone would put a serious law suite if it’s a good feature, but at the same Time, the feature they failed to include to be the difference between purchasing it and not.

On topic, I honestly think it’s lame that they’re not responding at all. So many people are dire to hearing at least something on both sides of the fence. And ANet just sits around silent.

Come on ANet, have some decency. And respect for your player base.

tolunart.2095:

I’m still not convinced it’s a problem – if you have the “bonus” home instance nodes you have an endless supply of candy corn, quartz, etc. A mining pick that gives a bonus once in a while is not as much of a big deal as people seem to think.

The only surprising thing is that people are surprised. It’s a business, and they are going to do things that they think will make money. It’s not shocking.

No one has to pay for the one in the instance. And that’s only once a day. I can guarantee as someone who used to do their Node Runs vigorously, that if you clear all the nodes in a day it’s very, very easy to get a large amount of sprockets, assuming one drops every node, or even every two nodes. Plus, keep in mind it gives more incentive to hit nodes below Ori on the way to your Ori nodes. Which only increases the number of sprockets you can have.

There was a response:

• https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/support/account/Infinite-Gathering-Tools-Some-Info-for-you/first#post3577753
• https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/support/account/Infinite-Gathering-Tools-Some-Info-for-you/first#post3578602

tl;dr: as time goes by, stuff you bought will become obsolete, and that should be considered natural.

Seven Star Stalker.1740:

No one has to pay for the one in the instance. And that’s only once a day. I can guarantee as someone who used to do their Node Runs vigorously, that if you clear all the nodes in a day it’s very, very easy to get a large amount of sprockets, assuming one drops every node, or even every two nodes. Plus, keep in mind it gives more incentive to hit nodes below Ori on the way to your Ori nodes. Which only increases the number of sprockets you can have.

Which also increases the number of other materials, since the sprockets don’t replace copper, iron, etc. More mats in circulation lowers the price of everything and makes ascended gear more accessible.

Remember, the price of these materials is not fixed, but depends on supply compared to demand. Increase the supply by a significant amount, and each individual sprocket is worth less. Yes, they should have done the same thing with azurite and quartz, perhaps they will update the other gathering tools.

Actually it sounds like devs thought this one through pretty well…

Also… “assuming one drops every node…” the chance to get a sprocket is 1 in 5. Why would you assume one drops every node, and not one every five nodes? Much of the overreaction is based on assumptions and fearmongering. The sky isn’t going to fall because you can make an extra 10c a minute if all you do is run around mining nodes. In fact you’ll get a lot more income/hr by doing the Queensdale champ train than by mining.

Fun fact: many posters have blasted the infinite tools because it’s nearly impossible to recoup the price of the tool through normal use. It costs so much that the money you save by not buying tools would take years to pay for it. So they add value to the tool (a few copper every four or five strikes) which should reduce this calculation a bit, and people blast the infinite mining pick because it offers more value. Pretty interesting…

tolunart.2095:

Fun fact: many posters have blasted the infinite tools because it’s nearly impossible to recoup the price of the tool through normal use. It costs so much that the money you save by not buying tools would take years to pay for it. So they add value to the tool (a few copper every four or five strikes) which should reduce this calculation a bit, and people blast the infinite mining pick because it offers more value. Pretty interesting…

But that is not the main issue people have with the new ones.
The main issue is what it might mean for the future.

Sure, right now it is a “worthless” and easily obtainable item being added, but what if they would have added Azurite instead? Which is very hard to come by at this time.

lordkrall.7241:

tolunart.2095:

Fun fact: many posters have blasted the infinite tools because it’s nearly impossible to recoup the price of the tool through normal use. It costs so much that the money you save by not buying tools would take years to pay for it. So they add value to the tool (a few copper every four or five strikes) which should reduce this calculation a bit, and people blast the infinite mining pick because it offers more value. Pretty interesting…

But that is not the main issue people have with the new ones.
The main issue is what it might mean for the future.

Sure, right now it is a “worthless” and easily obtainable item being added, but what if they would have added Azurite instead? Which is very hard to come by at this time.

Such speculation is pointless. They should (and probably will, if this pick sells well) update existing tools or add new ones that increase the supply of azurite and quartz. I believe the addition is part of a long-range plan, and not a simple money grab as many people seem to think. If that was the point, they’d make a big deal out of the fact that it provides bonus mats – as it is, the description in the game doesn’t even mention it, and a much smaller percentage of their customers research the items on the website or read the forums.

If it’s a money grab, they need to fire their marketing guys, because they provide no reason to buy this item over the previous items.

As for speculating what may happen in the future, there’s nothing – absolutely nothing at all – stopping Anet from introducing the “Legendary Black Lion Chest” with its own special keys and a chance to drop a precursor. As money grabs go, this would be a no-brainer, they’d make millions in the first week as people assume that they are going to get a precursor if they buy a five-pack of keys, then try again and again until they get it.

If that’s the kind of thing you’re afraid of, cut your losses and go play something else. The actual impact of something like the new pick is unnoticeable, and the backlash from something like the error in judgment that led to reskinned cultural armor being sold in the gem shop is far more serious – and was handled immediately and with sensitivity towards the game and its players.

If all they cared about was making money, they would have followed up the reskinned armor with gem shop versions of other cultural armor. Throw fire, rainbows, glitter, whatever on the best looking skins in the game and sell them for cash, now that’s greed. Adding a few coppers as a bonus to the third version of a mining tool when most people who would want it already have one is not.

this needs to be addressed by someone….do not let this thread die…anet needs to respond to there customers…..

warchanter.9574:

this needs to be addressed by someone….do not let this thread die…anet needs to respond to there customers…..

They have already responded. Read the posts in this thread. How many times must you keep asking them to respond?

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/bltc/Watchwork-Pick-Why-No-Response/page/2#post3578383

DarkSpirit.7046:

warchanter.9574:

this needs to be addressed by someone….do not let this thread die…anet needs to respond to there customers…..

They have already responded. Read the posts in this thread. How many times must you keep asking them to respond?

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/bltc/Watchwork-Pick-Why-No-Response/page/2#post3578383

I guess you haven’t read it …. cause this was the response:

Gaile Gray.6029:

Guys, for the most part I think this has been a civil and helpful conversation. I want to thank you (well most of you) for keeping a constructive tone, and sharing your thoughts.

If I could ask you to share your thoughts on the item in the appropriate forum — I am pretty sure that would be the Black Lion Trading Company Forum — I’d appreciate it. Please know I am not trying to deflect or shut down the discussion, just get it where it belongs and is most likely to be noted.

Thanks for understanding.

warchanter.9574:

DarkSpirit.7046:

warchanter.9574:

this needs to be addressed by someone….do not let this thread die…anet needs to respond to there customers…..

They have already responded. Read the posts in this thread. How many times must you keep asking them to respond?

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/bltc/Watchwork-Pick-Why-No-Response/page/2#post3578383

I guess you haven’t read it …. cause this was the response:

Gaile Gray.6029:

Guys, for the most part I think this has been a civil and helpful conversation. I want to thank you (well most of you) for keeping a constructive tone, and sharing your thoughts.

If I could ask you to share your thoughts on the item in the appropriate forum — I am pretty sure that would be the Black Lion Trading Company Forum — I’d appreciate it. Please know I am not trying to deflect or shut down the discussion, just get it where it belongs and is most likely to be noted.

Thanks for understanding.

Like I said, they have already responded so why did you claim that they have not responded?

That’s not really a “response” though. No offense to Gaile (<3 your work on the Account sub-forum, Gaile! Keep up the good work!), but that’s the equivalent of the “I’m sorry, you’ve called the wrong department. Let me transfer you.” phone call.

If you called a store to make a complaint about how you weren’t satisfied with their product, would you call being stuck on hold for hours and being transferred between departments a “response”?

Anyway, wasn’t Gaile’s response from the thread about the change from soulbound to account bound tools? It doesn’t have anything to do with this issue at all.

Lishtenbird.2814:

There was a response:

• https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/support/account/Infinite-Gathering-Tools-Some-Info-for-you/first#post3577753
• https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/support/account/Infinite-Gathering-Tools-Some-Info-for-you/first#post3578602

tl;dr: as time goes by, stuff you bought will become obsolete, and that should be considered natural.

That fallacy has been clearly refuted here and doesn’t apply in this case. I’m very disappointed that Gaile Gray has taken that stance on something thats clearly even more of poor decision than the flamekissed armor. Yet that one they decide to fix this one they don’t. It looks like that is only because the outcry on this hasn’t been large enough.

tolunart.2095:

lordkrall.7241:

tolunart.2095:

Fun fact: many posters have blasted the infinite tools because it’s nearly impossible to recoup the price of the tool through normal use. It costs so much that the money you save by not buying tools would take years to pay for it. So they add value to the tool (a few copper every four or five strikes) which should reduce this calculation a bit, and people blast the infinite mining pick because it offers more value. Pretty interesting…

But that is not the main issue people have with the new ones.
The main issue is what it might mean for the future.

Sure, right now it is a “worthless” and easily obtainable item being added, but what if they would have added Azurite instead? Which is very hard to come by at this time.

Such speculation is pointless.

Its most certainly not pointless.

Companies will constantly see how far they can push it, and if they get away with it, they try and push it even further.
Thats why people keep calling this a slippery slope.

No, right now this pick in and of itself is not a big deal. But the step this signifies most certainly is.
Arenanet is now sending the message they are okay with selling you the absolute best possible something for money, and making it exclusive to the gemstore.

And if they feel they can get away with this, they will push it further next time. Thats not speculation anymore, thats a guarentee. Because these descisions are not being made for the quality of the game by its devs, but to milk the playerbase for all its worth.
And when it comes to suits trying to squeeze money, its never enough.

The longer this issue goes without a response more substantive than “please talk about this in the appropriate location,” the more it becomes a customer relations problem compared to what it started out as. An item was added to the gem store, and a non-trivial number of people were concerned by it. That would have been the point to address the issue in some way, even with a “we have heard your concerns and your feedback is important to us” kind of noncommittal statement.

By saying nothing with respect to the concerns themselves, the message being silently conveyed is, “we do not care what our players think of our choices,” which stands in direct contradiction to the ongoing CDI efforts that are being made elsewhere. Surely they can understand that this has the appearance of hypocrisy and is bad for the corporate image.