Guild Wars 2

Thanks for the notice, I bought four of them.

If I can somehow raise 500 gold before the sale ends, I’ll buy four more.

I was just thinking last night about the gathering tools in this game. Open the menu, click equipment, check the charges left, mouseover comparisons for the quality to make sure I’m using the relevant pick… Hardly a problem, but a constant minor nuisance.

Certainly does make the unlimited gathering tools alluring, but the cost to convenience is just kind of of silly. And this particular one just seems…skeevy.

SaintSnow.6593:

I’d poop myself from laughter if they stealth nerfed the pick a week after the current sale. Hyped pick gets bought up by everyone and then anet puts it on the chopping block. Now that’s an amazing marketing ploy.

You’d be entitle to a refund, as they’ve shown when they’ve changed other gem items from what they were advertised as.

Certainly does make the unlimited gathering tools alluring, but the cost to convenience is just kind of of silly. And this particular one just seems…skeevy.

What would be fantastic, is if you slot an unlimited gathering tool, all your alts could use it. None of this place in bank, swap, place in bank, swap.

THEN, it would be totally worth 1000g.

It’s not bad at all. I took it out, did some mining in Brisbane and then some area completion. Got about an extra1.5 gold.

Astral Projections.7320:

It’s not bad at all. I took it out, did some mining in Brisbane and then some area completion. Got about an extra1.5 gold.

ZOMG!!!!111 Thats game breaking and needs to be nerfed!!!! Its pay to win!!! QQ QQ QQ Whine whine cry sniffle boo hoo!!!!

[/sarcasm]

I would gladly swap my molten pick for a watchwork one. Please enable this.

pdavis.8031:

Astral Projections.7320:

It’s not bad at all. I took it out, did some mining in Brisbane and then some area completion. Got about an extra1.5 gold.

ZOMG!!!!111 Thats game breaking and needs to be nerfed!!!! Its pay to win!!! QQ QQ QQ Whine whine cry sniffle boo hoo!!!!

[/sarcasm]

I’ll bank that gold and in 5 or 6 months (or 7 or 8, but who’s counting) I’ll break even from buying that pick. After that, that extra gold or two a day will be used to dominate the trading post. I’ll use it to drive out all you lesser beings and take over the whole land of Tyria.

Bwahahahahahahah.

(Ow, evil laughs hurt my throat)

Astral Projections.7320:

pdavis.8031:

Astral Projections.7320:

It’s not bad at all. I took it out, did some mining in Brisbane and then some area completion. Got about an extra1.5 gold.

ZOMG!!!!111 Thats game breaking and needs to be nerfed!!!! Its pay to win!!! QQ QQ QQ Whine whine cry sniffle boo hoo!!!!

[/sarcasm]

I’ll bank that gold and in 5 or 6 months (or 7 or 8, but who’s counting) I’ll break even from buying that pick. After that, that extra gold or two a day will be used to dominate the trading post. I’ll use it to drive out all you lesser beings and take over the whole land of Tyria.

Bwahahahahahahah.

(Ow, evil laughs hurt my throat)

SEE!? SEE!? What have you done ANet!? You’ve created the most OP player bent on turning the TP into his personal play ground!! Please!! Have mercy!!!

Picked up two, now all of my level 80’s have an infinite pick (others have molten alliance, because it looks the best)

pdavis.8031:

Astral Projections.7320:

pdavis.8031:

Astral Projections.7320:

It’s not bad at all. I took it out, did some mining in Brisbane and then some area completion. Got about an extra1.5 gold.

ZOMG!!!!111 Thats game breaking and needs to be nerfed!!!! Its pay to win!!! QQ QQ QQ Whine whine cry sniffle boo hoo!!!!

[/sarcasm]

I’ll bank that gold and in 5 or 6 months (or 7 or 8, but who’s counting) I’ll break even from buying that pick. After that, that extra gold or two a day will be used to dominate the trading post. I’ll use it to drive out all you lesser beings and take over the whole land of Tyria.

Bwahahahahahahah.

(Ow, evil laughs hurt my throat)

SEE!? SEE!? What have you done ANet!? You’ve created the most OP player bent on turning the TP into his personal play ground!! Please!! Have mercy!!!

That much gold was earned over a 2 hour period. If you do the math (pulls out calculator and pushes buttons while frowning thoughtfully) that works out to 1.25 silver a minute or 75 silver in an hour, where the time was spent doing extensive farming. (Just a warning to all, if you aren’t actively, extensively farming, this amount of gold is not flowing into your pockets). Now I know you puny TP barons out there cannot wrap your minds around such wealth, such income, but let me tell you, it pays for the waypoints! That’s is, it will after it pays for itself in a few months.

World domination. Who knew it would be so easy.

Why are you so fixated on the money aspect?

The infinite tools never were designed to pay for themselves, you buy them for the convenience.

Even if you would constantly use them by the time you would break even, the next generation of tools will be out.

Rengaru.4730:

Why are you so fixated on the money aspect?

The infinite tools never were designed to pay for themselves, you buy them for the convenience.

Even if you would constantly use them by the time you would break even, the next generation of tools will be out.

The money aspect is why people think that the watchwork pick should no longer have a chance to gain a sprocket, or that all the other picks should provide the same function.

Rengaru.4730:

Why are you so fixated on the money aspect?

The infinite tools never were designed to pay for themselves, you buy them for the convenience.

Even if you would constantly use them by the time you would break even, the next generation of tools will be out.

Because this entire thread over a period of four months has been one long complaint about how unfair this item is because of all the extra money it generates.

Numerous complaints. Numerous wishes that it be nerfed and numerous posts where they specifically said they were bumping the thread to keep the issue of its unfairness on the front page of the forum.

Well, I have one now. It pays for the waypoints and a little extra as long as I make the effort to get the nodes and do farming.

Paid for waypoints. That’s pretty much what this pick boils down to. After it pays for itself first after 4 months to a year, depending on how often you go out farming

Actually, I (and I assume a lot of other people) think the sprockets should be removed because it’s the first (and thank god only so far) instance of vertical progression in the gem store.

It really doesn’t mater if the <Insert Random Item> generated by <Insert Random Tool Name> is worth 4c 4s or 4g. As long as there is a definite better tool we have vertical progression and that is a pandora’s box i’d like to see shut rather sooner than later.

edit:

Because this entire thread over a period of four months has been one long complaint about how unfair this item is because of all the extra money it generates.

Those people are really few or trolling. You are basically “cherry” picking here, hence my question why you are so fixated on the money aspect.

Rengaru.4730:

Actually, I (and I assume a lot of other people) think the sprockets should be removed because it’s the first (and thank god only so far) instance of vertical progression in the gem store.

It really doesn’t mater if the <Insert Random Item> generated by <Insert Random Tool Name> is worth 4c 4s or 4g. As long as there is a definite better tool we have vertical progression and that is a pandora’s box i’d like to see shut rather sooner than later.

For a more elaborate explanation click this.

hide spoiler

The main issues with the Pick:

• Vertical Progression in the Gem Store: The new Pick is flat out better than any of the old Picks. This means vertical progression in the Gem Store is something ANet is fine with and we might see other items replaced by better versions.

• Trust in your purchase: People who bought any of the previous Pickaxes may feel cheated and might be more reluctant to buy any further “infinite” items, lowering future revenue and thus harming ANet and by extension all of the players.

• Extreme lack of communication: Despite over one thousand responses in multiple threads in the “Guild Wars 2 Discussion” and “Black Lion Trading Co” subforums, there is still no official response from ANet for over four months. Even threads specifically asking for a response (this one) get completely ignored.

edit:

Because this entire thread over a period of four months has been one long complaint about how unfair this item is because of all the extra money it generates.

Those people are really few or trolling. You are basically “cherry” picking here, hence my question why you are so fixated on the money aspect.

So, are you telling me that the complaints are not based on the value that the sprockets have? If the sprockets were valueless, worth nothing at all, there would still be the same number of complaints?

I can’t speak for the whole community, but I can speak for myself.

If sprockets were valueless (no vendor value and untradeable), the Watchwork Pick would still be superior to any other pick as it provides otherwise hard to get materials.

If sprockets were wortless (no vendor value, untradeable and no use in crafting) the Watchwork Pick would actually be inferior as it would clog your inventory up with junk.

In both cases I would be in favor of removing the additional drops.

Rengaru.4730:

I can’t speak for the whole community, but I can speak for myself.

If sprockets were valueless (no vendor value and untradeable), the Watchwork Pick would still be superior to any other pick as it provides otherwise hard to get materials.

If sprockets were wortless (no vendor value, untradeable and no use in crafting) the Watchwork Pick would actually be inferior as it would clog your inventory up with junk.

In both cases I would be in favor of removing the additional drops.

You were talking about vertical progression previously. I would like to comment on that point.

ANet has a long history of what I would consider vertical progression in its cash shop. http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Guild_Wars_In-Game_Store Dating back to when Guild Wars 1’s cash shop was put in. With cash you could unlock

1) all the PvE skills.
http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Skill_Unlock_Pack
2) all the PvP runes and insignias. http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/PvP_Item_Unlock_Pack
3) all the PvP weapons, armor. skill, upgrades, heroes. http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/PvP_Access_Kit
4) all the ranger pets.
http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Pet_Unlock_Pack
5) a fire imp to fight alongside you, at your level.
http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Guild_Wars_2008_Upgrade
6) mercenary heroes. Like regular heroes, you could outfit them with the best armor and select their skills. You could make them use particular skills at your command. People beat the game with a well outfitted set of mercenaries and heroes.
http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Mercenary_Hero_Slot
7) max level weapons at level one
http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Game_of_the_Year_Upgrade
As well as missions that were not part of the regular game.
http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Guild_Wars_Bonus_Mission_Pack

ANet has been doing this sort of thing since 2006 or so. They are comfortable with it and see nothing wrong with offering it.

Hey, this thread has a point after all! Thanx for letting me know it’s back, bought one.

Astral Projections.7320:

Rengaru.4730:

Actually, I (and I assume a lot of other people) think the sprockets should be removed because it’s the first (and thank god only so far) instance of vertical progression in the gem store.

It really doesn’t mater if the <Insert Random Item> generated by <Insert Random Tool Name> is worth 4c 4s or 4g. As long as there is a definite better tool we have vertical progression and that is a pandora’s box i’d like to see shut rather sooner than later.

For a more elaborate explanation click this.

hide spoiler

The main issues with the Pick:

• Vertical Progression in the Gem Store: The new Pick is flat out better than any of the old Picks. This means vertical progression in the Gem Store is something ANet is fine with and we might see other items replaced by better versions.

• Trust in your purchase: People who bought any of the previous Pickaxes may feel cheated and might be more reluctant to buy any further “infinite” items, lowering future revenue and thus harming ANet and by extension all of the players.

• Extreme lack of communication: Despite over one thousand responses in multiple threads in the “Guild Wars 2 Discussion” and “Black Lion Trading Co” subforums, there is still no official response from ANet for over four months. Even threads specifically asking for a response (this one) get completely ignored.

edit:

Because this entire thread over a period of four months has been one long complaint about how unfair this item is because of all the extra money it generates.

Those people are really few or trolling. You are basically “cherry” picking here, hence my question why you are so fixated on the money aspect.

So, are you telling me that the complaints are not based on the value that the sprockets have? If the sprockets were valueless, worth nothing at all, there would still be the same number of complaints?

What i didnt like about its introduction was that it was basically a better version of the molten pick.

When i bought the molten, i thought it would be the only one i will ever need but they released one that was superior to it.

Wanze.8410:

Astral Projections.7320:

Rengaru.4730:

Actually, I (and I assume a lot of other people) think the sprockets should be removed because it’s the first (and thank god only so far) instance of vertical progression in the gem store.

It really doesn’t mater if the <Insert Random Item> generated by <Insert Random Tool Name> is worth 4c 4s or 4g. As long as there is a definite better tool we have vertical progression and that is a pandora’s box i’d like to see shut rather sooner than later.

For a more elaborate explanation click this.

hide spoiler

The main issues with the Pick:

• Vertical Progression in the Gem Store: The new Pick is flat out better than any of the old Picks. This means vertical progression in the Gem Store is something ANet is fine with and we might see other items replaced by better versions.

• Trust in your purchase: People who bought any of the previous Pickaxes may feel cheated and might be more reluctant to buy any further “infinite” items, lowering future revenue and thus harming ANet and by extension all of the players.

• Extreme lack of communication: Despite over one thousand responses in multiple threads in the “Guild Wars 2 Discussion” and “Black Lion Trading Co” subforums, there is still no official response from ANet for over four months. Even threads specifically asking for a response (this one) get completely ignored.

edit:

Because this entire thread over a period of four months has been one long complaint about how unfair this item is because of all the extra money it generates.

Those people are really few or trolling. You are basically “cherry” picking here, hence my question why you are so fixated on the money aspect.

So, are you telling me that the complaints are not based on the value that the sprockets have? If the sprockets were valueless, worth nothing at all, there would still be the same number of complaints?

What i didnt like about its introduction was that it was basically a better version of the molten pick.

When i bought the molten, i thought it would be the only one i will ever need but they released one that was superior to it.

Yah, I can see that. Maybe they should have offered an exchange NPC. A exchange of an old pick for the new one. Or a refund/exchange/upgrade from support.

I still fail to see why a refund or upgrade should even be offered. Just like the iphone. The iphone 4 was released, than a few months later, the iphone 4S. No free upgrades, or refunds were given. The same principle applies here I think.

Go ANet go! Those are the kind of items that we need in the gem store – the kind that would makes it worth our while to buy. The rest of the money losing cosmetic stuff in the store are just not as worth it.

I didn’t know that it is totally worth buying until you guys pointed that out on this thread. Now I really want one! Thank you guys for keeping this thread alive! I have not bought any of the infinite tools so, unlike some of you, I don’t feel any pain about this one.

Astral Projections.7320:

[…]

Besides everything you have listet being GW1 related, all of your examples are of horizontal progression (more options/skins/same stats) not vertical progression (straight up better stats/more loot)

1-4 are all basic examples of horizontal progression (not straight up better, just more options) besides they are all unlockable via PvE.

5 is a temporary (level 1-19) and unreliable (dies quickly, long cooldown) bonus than can be substituted with other summoning stones, which makes it another case of horizontal progression. The only advantage of it is being infinite (kinda like the regular vs infinite picks).

6 is again horizontal progression (more options) you can still use the regular heroes which are good enough for most of the content.

7 max level weapons at level one deal awfull damage because their requirements are not being met.

8? The bonus missions offer new content, which reward no better stats, just new looks (horizontal progression).

It seems to me you did not know the difference between vertical and horizontal progression.
 
 
 

I have not bought any of the infinite tools so, unlike some of you, I don’t feel any pain about this one.

Don’t worry, if this becomes a trend the pain will come in time.

Rengaru.4730:

Astral Projections.7320:

[…]

Besides everything you have listet being GW1 related, all of your examples are of horizontal progression (more options/skins/same stats) not vertical progression (straight up better stats/more loot)

1-4 are all basic examples of horizontal progression (not straight up better, just more options) besides they are all unlockable via PvE.

5 is a temporary (level 1-19) and unreliable (dies quickly, long cooldown) bonus than can be substituted with other summoning stones, which makes it another case of horizontal progression. The only advantage of it is being infinite (kinda like the regular vs infinite picks).

6 is again horizontal progression (more options) you can still use the regular heroes which are good enough for most of the content.

7 max level weapons at level one deal awfull damage because their requirements are not being met.

8? The bonus missions offer new content, which reward no better stats, just new looks (horizontal progression).

It seems to me you did not know the difference between vertical and horizontal progression.
 
 
 

I have not bought any of the infinite tools so, unlike some of you, I don’t feel any pain about this one.

Don’t worry, if this becomes a trend the pain will come in time.

Ok, true, horizontal then.

On the other hand, someone can buy the PvP skills and the PvP gear and walk into PvP for the first time, fully maxed out. No need to grind for any of that and then PvP with people who were still unlocking skills, heroes and upgrades.

They can also walk into the PvE area and not need to play the game to get the skills unlocked.

They can make a brand new character and have something better than a starter weapon. Maybe the weapons weren’t so good, but they were better than what character creation gives you.

You could start a new character and on your first minute, no money needed to buy from another character or by playing the game, you have a NPC (the fire imp) alongside you.

If all these items, or equivalent items, had been in the Guild Wars 2 gem shop would people have called them pay to win? My belief is, yes. Just like I’ve seen some people call the pick pay to win.

What I’m saying is, ANet has a long history of selling items in the shop that give some sort of advantage.

Rengaru.4730:

Don’t worry, if this becomes a trend the pain will come in time.

I would cross that bridge when I get to it. At the meantime, I plan to enjoy every benefit my money can buy.

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

Picked up two, now all of my level 80’s have an infinite pick (others have molten alliance, because it looks the best)

5 Molten, 2 Bone and 3 Watchwork so far .. but 13 80s .. think about buying at least one more now .. hmmmm

hooray, this finally came around again!
I didn’t buy it before on principle then kicked myself cos I do really like the sounds it makes.
Would be happy if the sprocket generation was removed.

I’m bitterly disappointed that you put up a “7 day only” sale for the permanent bone pick and then a few short weeks later you put up a “7 day only” sale for the BETTER watchwork mining pick. That pick also yields watchwork sprockets and is thus better than the bone pick. You really let me down here and I have supported the game by purchasing gems on more than one occasion.

^They sent me a generic “post your suggestion on the forums” response to this support issue I submitted, I would like a refund of the 1000 gems I wasted on the lesser pick since the better one came out almost immediately afterward.

I will never buy anything tagged “7 days only” again.

I must be in the severe minority thinking that the sprocket generation is a good thing. Personally, I’d prefer to see all the other gem store infini-tools get a similar upgrade. Power creep is pervasive in nearly every MMO except GW2 with expansions and other paid content. Adding a very minor benefit to paying customers (which non-paying customers can still cash in on through the gold → gems exchange) is a small way of saying “thank you for supporting us,” IMO.

As for the financial benefit, this doesn’t hold a candle to the kind of coin people make on daily dungeon raids. I really don’t see this as being detrimental to the economy at all. And it’s not like the tools are going away and only those who already bought them will benefit as we’ve seen with the return of the WW pick.

I’d like to see other time-gated or limited supply mats get the same sort of refresh — azurite, passion flowers, zhaitaffy, etc. When huge supplies of some of these mats are necessary for certain recipes, the idea of farming limited-supply nodes for literally a year or two — especially for the casual player or those who prioritize family over gaming — is prohibitive and discouraging.

Aurelian Omenkind.2470:

I must be in the severe minority thinking that the sprocket generation is a good thing. Personally, I’d prefer to see all the other gem store infini-tools get a similar upgrade. Power creep is pervasive in nearly every MMO except GW2 with expansions and other paid content. Adding a very minor benefit to paying customers (which non-paying customers can still cash in on through the gold -> gems exchange) is a small way of saying “thank you for supporting us,” IMO.

As for the financial benefit, this doesn’t hold a candle to the kind of coin people make on daily dungeon raids. I really don’t see this as being detrimental to the economy at all. And it’s not like the tools are going away and only those who already bought them will benefit as we’ve seen with the return of the WW pick.

I’d like to see other time-gated or limited supply mats get the same sort of refresh — azurite, passion flowers, zhaitaffy, etc. When huge supplies of some of these mats are necessary for certain recipes, the idea of farming limited-supply nodes for literally a year or two — especially for the casual player or those who prioritize family over gaming — is prohibitive and discouraging.

I agree with you. I don’t know why MMO people always think that rewards ought to be based on the amount of time you have in real life instead of skills. Time is money and can be bought with money and vice versa.

If you tell me that a specific reward can only be gained with SKILLs then I would agree that it should not be obtainable through gold or money. If, on the other hand, you tell me that this specific reward can be obtained through TIME farming content and so on, then I would say it should be obtainable through money also. Why? Because a working parent is not necessarily less skillful than a non-working person with no real life responsibilities. No real life responsibilities does NOT equate to more skills.

Therefore, why should a person with no real life responsibilities be rewarded more in the game? Time spent in the game, can and should be able to be countered with money. However, skills rewards have and should always be unique. Don’t confuse time-based rewards with skill-based ones.

Ok .. Bought 3 more … now all my 13 80s have endless picks. That will take again a lot of mining to get the money back

“Here’s our philosophy on microtransactions: We think players should have the opportunity to spend money on items that provide visual distinction and offer more ways to express themselves. They should also be able to spend money on account services and on time-saving convenience items. But it’s never OK for players to buy a game and not be able to enjoy what they paid for without additional purchases, and it’s never OK for players who spend money to have an unfair advantage over players who spend time.”
- Mike O’Brien (https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/mike-obrien-on-microtransactions-in-guild-wars-2/)

I guess things have changed…

People can get the sprockets without spending money though, and they can get the pick without spending money as well, by spending time.

I’m glad they re-released it. Shows that the bumping of nonsense threads doesn’t deter Anet from following their plans. I’m looking forward to more ‘bonus mat’ harvesting tools in LW Season 2.

DarkSpirit.7046:

I agree with you. I don’t know why MMO people always think that rewards ought to be based on the amount of time you have in real life instead of skills. Time is money and can be bought with money and vice versa.

Originally, MMOs were subscription-based, and pretty cheap at that. They were funded on the idea that a lot of people paying a little money could pay for the servers and other expenses of an always-running system while providing enough extra for development and profit. The typical sub is $15 a month, which works out to about 50 cents a day. However, for every day you don’t log in, you still pay 50 cents even though you didn’t use “your” time in the game. So someone who plays 5 hours a day, every day, ends up paying about 10 cents an hour to play. Someone who only logs in for 5 hours on Saturday and Sunday pays about 37.5 cents per hour, almost 4x more.

Even though the price is the same, a sub-based game is a better value for someone who has a lot of time to play. People with responsibilities like a full-time job and a family may be able to afford the sub price more easily than someone who is a student or unemployed slacker, but it seems like less of a value for them because they cannot devote as much time to it. So early on there was a distinct advantage to having more time to play over having more money.

And the emphasis on open PvP environments in early games didn’t help this. Someone who devoted 30+ hours a week to the game would naturally be more experienced, higher level, and more familiar with the game than someone who only played 10 hours a week. So players who “have a life” were disadvantaged and discouraged from playing because those who could play all day, every day, dominated the game.

There are some disadvantages to this, however. Those players who had a lot of free time eventually graduated, got jobs, got married and/or had children, etc. Or their bills overwhelmed them and they had to make sacrifices and it’s easier to give up a video game than eating (for most of us). So experienced players end up moving on after a while because their situation changes and now they have more money but less time and are the ones at a disadvantage. And the success of early MMOs spawned countless imitators, so even the players with a lot of free time had other games competing for their attention, and many drifted from game to game because there was always something new to try after the old game got boring.

Eventually someone realized that these gamers would pay more money to play less time if it meant they could catch up to the no-lifers who played more often. So they dropped the subscriptions but offered advantages for cash and “pay to win” was born. Because these games had no sub fee, they attracted the no-lifers who could now play for even less money than the sub-based games, and once committed to the game they realized that those who were willing to pay to play would have an advantage.

This is why there are so many complaints about “pay to win,” and why these complaints don’t stop companies from doing it. They have learned that the sub-based model can only support so many players (most of whom are already committed to WoW), and most sub-based games don’t make enough money to stay afloat. But no matter how much the no-lifers complain about pay-to-win, there are enough people who will open their wallets to compete with those who can play all day, every day to make free to play games profitable.

And in the end, the game company exists to make a profit.

dAcIaW.5107:

“Here’s our philosophy on microtransactions: We think players should have the opportunity to spend money on items that provide visual distinction and offer more ways to express themselves. They should also be able to spend money on account services and on time-saving convenience items. But it’s never OK for players to buy a game and not be able to enjoy what they paid for without additional purchases, and it’s never OK for players who spend money to have an unfair advantage over players who spend time.”
- Mike O’Brien (https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/mike-obrien-on-microtransactions-in-guild-wars-2/)

I guess things have changed…

Not really, it depends on prespective. There are several ways to get sprockets in game without the mining pick. The node was available for free with the marionette event, and later you could get the node again in the bazaar. You can also buy the sprockets on the TP. It’s not an unfair advantage. If you spent time in game you also have the same opportunities to get sprockets. This isnt “pay to win” in the slightest. Oh yeah, and the pick is once again available in the gemstore, thus reducing the so call advantage a player who bought the pick when it was first available. I still fail to see how this pick creates an unfair advantage for anyone. Unless you feel like everything should be given to everyone upon logging in, legendaries, precursors, ascended, minis etc. Its entitlement at its finest plain and simple. There is no argument for this item being an advantage without including that same sense of entitlement. Period.

But… but… it’s a slippery slope.

tolunart.2095:

Eventually someone realized that these gamers would pay more money to play less time if it meant they could catch up to the no-lifers who played more often. So they dropped the subscriptions but offered advantages for cash and “pay to win” was born. Because these games had no sub fee, they attracted the no-lifers who could now play for even less money than the sub-based games, and once committed to the game they realized that those who were willing to pay to play would have an advantage.

This is why there are so many complaints about “pay to win,” and why these complaints don’t stop companies from doing it. They have learned that the sub-based model can only support so many players (most of whom are already committed to WoW), and most sub-based games don’t make enough money to stay afloat. But no matter how much the no-lifers complain about pay-to-win, there are enough people who will open their wallets to compete with those who can play all day, every day to make free to play games profitable.

And in the end, the game company exists to make a profit.

I don’t see anything wrong with that. It is a well-known fact of life that a game company has to make a profit to survive. Who is going to continue to pay the salaries of all the game devs, designers, artists, marketing, etc. employees over time if it keeps losing money? And they have their own families to feed and pay their own bills.

In some ways a sub-based game is more straight-forward. They only need to continue to attract subscribers and not to worry about a cash shop. For a fee-to-play game like GW2, they would need a cash shop. The game is maturing fast and soon it would disappear from the shelves, having been displaced by the hoard of newer games gushing in.

Therefore, they need a way to get a continued flow of income. And what is the best way? Get those players with the money to help them to catch up with the rest for the players with the time. Because the players with the money would want to look as cool and be as strong as everybody else.

On the matter of sprockets, so what if they can get a pick that gives them a random chance of some sprockets. Sprockets only equate to gold and gold equates to gems and gems can always be gotten through money. If any of you think that you deserve to be ahead, in terms of gold, because you have farmed for a long time, then think again because even if the money-rich players do not buy this pick, they have always had the chance to convert their money to gems then to gold at any time. So I really don’t see what is the big deal about this pick, considering that the money-gem-gold route has always existed since the beginning.

The only reason, I can think of, as to why threads like these ones existed for so long is because of the jealousy of players who have bought previous unlimited picks who now try to rile up the crowd in order to pressure ArenaNet into adding new features into their previous purchases. They do this obviously for selfish reasons even though they try to justify it by calling this a “slippery slope” of “pay-2-win” in the game.

Therefore it depends on what you define as “win” in this game. If simply having the most gold in the game is “win”, according to your definition, then it is already “pay-to-win” ever since beta. But simply having the most gold would not guarantee you victories in sPvP tournaments. So every time when someone mentions “pay-to-win” think about what “win” means in his context.

DarkSpirit.7046:

Therefore it depends on what you define as “win” in this game. If simply having the most gold in the game is “win”, according to your definition, then it is already “pay-to-win” ever since beta.

I don’t have a problem with it either… in fact I prefer the option to spend more money on the game over the requirement to pay to play. I paid $60 (or more) for Rift, SWTOR, ESO when they were released, and though I can afford to pay a sub, it does bother me a bit that I have to “rebuy” the game every four to six months just to keep playing it.

Sub-based games use delaying tactics like grinding for tokens/points and gear resets to keep players subbed. If you spend two hours a day doing daily quests for faction points to get access to the advanced content (gear, raids, titles, whatever) over three months, chances are good that you won’t just walk away from it when your 3-month sub runs out. And when they raise the level cap and add new content to grind you essentially begin the whole process over again.

Players have been taught to expect this, to the point that some don’t know how to play a game that does not do this. SWTOR failed to live up to expectations in part because the devs spent so much time and money on the setting and story that they didn’t put in enough things for players to do at “endgame.” So millions of players rushed through the carefully crafted maps, spacebarred through the fully voiced story without bothering to listen to what anyone had to say, and ended up at the end of the game instead of the endgame.

GW2 is a lot like this, the entire game is the endgame, there aren’t an endless series of raids and gear resets to look forward to after the busywork is done. Playing your character from level 1 on is the point of the game, not just something to stretch out your sub by another month or two.

As far as pay to win goes, it’s a convenient excuse for a lot of people. Most games that launched in the last few years sell extras, Rift provided a mount, a bigger backpack, and some other stuff for players who spent more money. SWTOR also, and ESO went further, unlocking an entire race for those who paid more for their account. And two of these are now free to play with cash shops anyway… I expect the third will follow by the end of the year.

Now, paying to win only really affects anything when the game is PvP-focused. I briefly tried a free to play game last year, Age of Wu Shu, until I realized that it was mostly about open-world PvP – and pay to win. Subscribers continue to build up points on their characters while logged out, free players do not. That means someone who pays for the game can go to work or school all week, log in on the weekend and be as powerful (or more so) than free players who spent all week grinding. If a free player doesn’t devote enough time to the game he’s likely to spend most of his time being beaten up by paid players, not something that I would enjoy.

Buying a flashy weapon skin or cultural armor that doesn’t have any effect on the way other players experience the game? Not pay to win.

The sprockets aren’t even a big deal, there are extremely limited ways to produce them and over time if Anet doesn’t continually reintroduce them during events the price will climb to the point where most players cannot use them for anything. If there is any effect at all from this pick, it’s keeping them more affordable for everyone.

tolunart.2095:

Hey, this thread has a point after all! Thanx for letting me know it’s back, bought one.

Hehe I did too. I need those sprockets to turn into blade shards to finish my back piece. Can’t get enough from that node in my home instance, so this pick will serve its purpose quite nicely.
Sorry Molten alliance pick, your lava and flames hold no candle to the awesomeness of a sprocket dropping watchwork pick.

I picked up one. So soon I will have wealth beyond imagination! Bwahahaha!

What?

Infernia.9847:

tolunart.2095:

Hey, this thread has a point after all! Thanx for letting me know it’s back, bought one.

Hehe I did too. I need those sprockets to turn into blade shards to finish my back piece. Can’t get enough from that node in my home instance, so this pick will serve its purpose quite nicely.
Sorry Molten alliance pick, your lava and flames hold no candle to the awesomeness of a sprocket dropping watchwork pick.

Perhaps a new thread demanding an update on the harvesting animation is needed.

How about 3 or 4 Watchknights bounding around the node, each holding up a sprocket in her hand?

Wow. O.o I’m honestly surprised they did bring it back. Guess that means nothing’s off the table really. We definitely should be prepared for future unlimited tools potentially having additional bonuses then.

What I really dislike is having different tools with the same price, yet one of them is unquestionably a better buy than all the others due to its additional bonus. I still think that the additional watchwork drop should be removed OR the existing tools get upgraded so they also give an additional bonus (Molten picks give Azurite, Frost Wasp Axe gives snowflakes etc.) to keep it fair.

In any event, even with the re-introduction of the Watchwork Pick, prices for Sprockets are still decent. (Dropped from 3.5 silver to about 3 silver.) So I decided to bite the bullet and upgraded my Molten Picks to Watchwork ones. On Sunday alone I earned about 150 extra Sprockets from my harvesting (I harvest a LOT, mind you); at that kind of return, the Picks will pay for themselves within a couple of months.

I was surprised to see the watchwork pick back on sale as well. So I guess I retract my statement that I didn’t think they would sell it again. Whether or not we’ll see more of these types of unlimited tools with special bonuses, I honestly don’t know.

Still, people are kittening about it again. Over something relatively trivial in the broader scope of things. Go figure.

I did opt to buy the pick this time around, as did my husband. Only because we’re making multiples of the ascended spinal back piece (which is the cheapest one to do). Thus requiring lots and lots of sprockets (and blade shards, which are easier to option via the MF than via aether grinding). After that, the sprockets are just TP food.

Zaxares.5419:

(…)
In any event, even with the re-introduction of the Watchwork Pick, prices for Sprockets are still decent. (Dropped from 3.5 silver to about 3 silver.) So I decided to bite the bullet and upgraded my Molten Picks to Watchwork ones. On Sunday alone I earned about 150 extra Sprockets from my harvesting (I harvest a LOT, mind you); at that kind of return, the Picks will pay for themselves within a couple of months.

Taking the current value of approx 120G (if you would exchange gold for gems to buy the tool) at 3s you would break even at 4000 sprockets. You’d need only another 26 days like that. Care to guess how many nodes you harvested on Sunday?

Rouven.7409:

Taking the current value of approx 120G (if you would exchange gold for gems to buy the tool) at 3s you would break even at 4000 sprockets. You’d need only another 26 days like that. Care to guess how many nodes you harvested on Sunday?

I wasn’t keeping an exact count, but I’d say probably around 60 – 80 nodes. It included all the nodes in my Home Instance, the Quartz at Labyrinthine Cliffs, and then my usual haunts for Iron/Silver/Gold/Platinum. Plus, it being the weekend, I also made a detour to Southsun for the Karka Queen. LOTS of Mithril Ore to harvest there, especially on the west side of the island. (Although the karkas do make harvesting there a bit annoying.)

Last night being a weekday, and having much less time to harvest, I still managed to come away with 37 Sprockets during my couple of hours of gaming.

Hey, guys! Good news! I was informed that the reason I can’t get an exchange is because I purchased the molten pick when it was still character bound and, thus, 800 gems. So for you guys who bought the bone pick or the molten pick at 1000 gems, it should be no problem to submit a ticket and get an exchanged pick! Either that or they were pointing out that the molten pick was 800 gems when I bought it for no apparent reason at all…

Are you trying to trade your Molten Pick for a Watchwork Pick? (i.e. “I purchased the wrong pick from the Gem Store.”) If so, then their explanation is correct; you bought the Molten Pick when it was 800 gems and the new picks are now 1000 gems.

You could potentially ask for a 800 gem refund and then add another 200 gems of your own to make up the difference, although as far as I know, they are only offering refunds if you purchased multiple copies of the soulbound picks and now want to trade some back because they’re account bound.

Anet must of missed this thread since they re-released the item a short while ago