Guild Wars 2

DarcShriek.5829:

Anet needs to sell an item for $50.00 that will instantly promote a character to level 80.

$50 is a little on the high side but I’d be very tempted to buy that.

DarcShriek.5829:

Anet needs to sell an item for $50.00 that will instantly promote a character to level 80.

Wrong topic, buddy.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/bltc/List-Of-Things-We-Want-In-Gemstore/first

Wanze.8410:

At least the new sickle got no bonus added…

Yes. Which makes me wonder if the Watchwork Pick was perhaps an experiment to see how the player base would react to the introduction of power creep (however slight) in gem store items. On the one hand, I’m pleased that we’re not seeing a continuation of the trend. On the other, I wonder if ANet is going to keep the Watchwork Pick as is since it’s now an aberration compared to every single other unlimited tool.

still waiting i guess

dAcIaW.5107:

still waiting i guess

Me too. At 50c, P2win with sprockets is going to take a long time.

Checks to see if it still takes tens of thousands of uses for the sprockets to justify having bought this pick financially

Hrmm… yep. Still does.

sprockets almost up to 1s each

OH NOES! 1s! Let me check something ….

Alfador.7649:

Checks to see if it still takes tens of thousands of uses for the sprockets to justify having bought this pick financially

Hrmm… yep. Still does.

Ah, the sky isn’t falling.

Obtena.7952:

OH NOES! 1s! Let me check something ….

Alfador.7649:

Checks to see if it still takes tens of thousands of uses for the sprockets to justify having bought this pick financially

Hrmm… yep. Still does.

Ah, the sky isn’t falling.

oh who said the sky was falling?

You should have bought a pick when you had the chance. Now your missing out on big sub-1s winning.

Please! Anybody, give me a rough estimate of how many hundreds of gold you’ve profited off of you Watchwork Pick plz. Also, the time invested mining to make this ‘profit’ would be very helpful as well. I was considering buying one if it is ever REREleased and I just want to make sure that all this fuss about them is justifiable in my decision to purchase one, should I get another chance, or if it is all just hyperbole. So, what kind of profits should I expect from my Watchwork pick exactly? I think, 5-10g a month would be well worth the investment (as long as it doesn’t cut too much into my 20-30g+/day dungeon speed clear routine). This is, of course, after the very short time it takes for the pick to pay for itself on my investment. I also heard that the Basic Ore Node upgrade is P2W and, I was thinking that I could invest in both to REALLY rake in the dough. Advice/data is very welcomed. Thanx.

Obtena.7952:

You should have bought a pick when you had the chance. Now your missing out on big sub-1s winning.

Thanks for agreeing that this is P2W, and that is why I would like to hear a response from Anet on the subject.

it’s incredible I need to explain to people that OP’s point is that the pick is not the problem, it’s the precedent it sets that is the problem.

dAcIaW.5107:

Obtena.7952:

You should have bought a pick when you had the chance. Now your missing out on big sub-1s winning.

Thanks for agreeing that this is P2W, and that is why I would like to hear a response from Anet on the subject.

I don’t agree it’s pay to win (I guess the sarcasm was just wasted on you). I just think you should have bought one if you think it’s such an epic amount of awesomeness. It doesn’t make sense to say the pick is full of win, then not take advantage of it … unless you’re just being obtuse.

The pick is here. It’s not going anywhere. It hasn’t brought people immense wealth or ‘WIN’, whatever that is. What kind of response are you actually waiting for Anet to give you? There isn’t anything to say. Maybe they could tell us how much revenue they made from the sales and compare that to operating costs, demonstrating how many months of funding it provided to keep this game free to play. Perhaps that would clear up the fit of ignorance some people are exhibiting.

Obtena.7952:

dAcIaW.5107:

Obtena.7952:

You should have bought a pick when you had the chance. Now your missing out on big sub-1s winning.

Thanks for agreeing that this is P2W, and that is why I would like to hear a response from Anet on the subject.

I don’t agree it’s pay to win (I guess the sarcasm was just wasted on you). I just think you should have bought one if you think it’s such an epic amount of awesomeness. It doesn’t make sense to say the pick is full of win, then not take advantage of it … unless you’re just being obtuse.

The pick is here. It’s not going anywhere. It hasn’t brought people immense wealth or ‘WIN’, whatever that is. What kind of response are you actually waiting for Anet to give you? There isn’t anything to say. Maybe they could tell us how much revenue they made from the sales and compare that to operating costs, demonstrating how many months of funding it provided to keep this game free to play. Perhaps that would clear up the fit of ignorance some people are exhibiting.

Your need to argue falls on deaf ears, but you make a good point about what kind of a response I would like to hear from Anet. I would like to know their thinking on why they choose to introduce a P2W item, maybe something a bit more in depth then “we want the monies”. I would also like to know if more of these types of items are to come in the future. Also perhaps if they do plan on moving the ‘line in the sand’ just how far are they moving it and where they have drawn their new line.

Hey, I already won by amassing sprockets, why are you guys still playing? Don’t you know you can’t win now that I have more sprockets than you?!?

mtpelion.4562:

Hey, I already won by amassing sprockets, why are you guys still playing? Don’t you know you can’t win now that I have more sprockets than you?!?

and another effortless strawman

Pie Flavor.1647:

mtpelion.4562:

Hey, I already won by amassing sprockets, why are you guys still playing? Don’t you know you can’t win now that I have more sprockets than you?!?

and another effortless strawman

Actually, it is a succinct mockery of the “P2W” argument.

Due to the way this game is designed, there are only two possibilities here:
1. GW2 has ALWAYS been P2W, thus the argument against P2W is moot.
2. GW2 cannot be P2W, thus the argument against P2W is moot.

Some people have raised various arguments regarding whether this sets a precedent for future content releases or whether paying for convenience is bad, and while those may be conversations with merit, anyone who raises “P2W” in their argument has legitimately opened themselves up to light-hearted mockery because their argument is moot.

mtpelion.4562:

Some people have raised various arguments regarding whether this sets a precedent for future content releases or whether paying for convenience is bad, and while those may be conversations with merit, anyone who raises “P2W” in their argument has legitimately opened themselves up to light-hearted mockery because their argument is moot.

Except the light-hearted mockery is all you’ve done, and all you’ve focused on, to both the “P2W” people -and- the people who have said “The pick sets some alarming precedents that worry us”

All you and most of the people in agreement with you have done is mock, lightly or otherwise. And then when people show up and talk about possible precedents, how that worries them, and how sprockets aren’t a part of their arguments, what do you do?

You stand over in your little corner, still going "HEY GUYS LOOK AT MY CLEVER AND WITTY COMMENTS THAT SHOW I’M MOCKING P2W ARGUMENTS BY HARPING ABOUT SPROCKETS AND HOW “WINNING” THEY MAKE ME"

Some people scream P2W and you mock them and go “NOU”
Some people scream Precedent and you still mock them and go “NOU”

In neither scenario have you ever added -anything- of worth to this thread. Arguably, you’ve added less to the conversation than even the P2W arguments.

There have only been three lines of complaints so far which are:
1. It’s P2W!
2. I’m alarmed that this sets a precedent.
3. Paying for convenience is bad.

To those:
1. It either always was P2W or it isn’t P2W, but in either case your argument is moot and/or completely wrong.
2. You’ve voiced your concern. End of story. You can’t have a discussion about a “trend” with a single data point because a single data point is a single data point and attempting to infer ANYTHING from it is automatically a fallacy.
3. You’ve chosen to play the wrong game as this one is funded through pay for convenience and pay for cosmetics.

In all three cases, there is no place for any type of productive conversation, which I’ve previously pointed out (both with and without snark). Since they all three continue to be repeated ad nauseum, they will continue to receive mockery ad nauseum.

So first you say that “Some people have raised various arguments regarding whether this sets a precedent for future content releases or whether paying for convenience is bad, and while those may be conversations with merit”

And then you turn around and say that the precedent point doesn’t have merit and that there’s no room for constructive conversation.

Make up your kitten mind. Which is it?

Actually, you know what? Just answer me this. Do you even have a point to any of this beyond wanting to mock people?

I mean, let’s go with the theoretical. That those arguing against the watchwork pick have won so far as future installments of unlimited tools are concerned (which -seems- to be the case, given the scythe). People are still buying these regular unlimited tools (at least so far as I can tell). ANet is still making money and as such can still fuel this game. The only thing that’s changed is that those who stopped spending money on ANet because of this product and would have remained not spending money are again spending money because trust has been regained.

I mean, what’s so bad about that? Did you actually like the pick? Is it that you were invested in it existing because -reason here-? Do you think more tools should do these things?

Or are you just being contrary for the sake of it? Because by being contrary you can lightly mock people?

Gene Archer.8560:

So first you say that “Some people have raised various arguments regarding whether this sets a precedent for future content releases or whether paying for convenience is bad, and while those may be conversations with merit”

And then you turn around and say that the precedent point doesn’t have merit and that there’s no room for constructive conversation.

Make up your kitten mind. Which is it?

Actually, you know what? Just answer me this. Do you even have a point to any of this beyond wanting to mock people?

I mean, let’s go with the theoretical. That those arguing against the watchwork pick have won so far as future installments of unlimited tools are concerned (which -seems- to be the case, given the scythe). People are still buying these regular unlimited tools (at least so far as I can tell). ANet is still making money and as such can still fuel this game. The only thing that’s changed is that those who stopped spending money on ANet because of this product and would have remained not spending money are again spending money because trust has been regained.

I mean, what’s so bad about that? Did you actually like the pick? Is it that you were invested in it existing because -reason here-? Do you think more tools should do these things?

Or are you just being contrary for the sake of it? Because by being contrary you can lightly mock people?

Just because something MAY have merit does not mean it does. Further, something that has merit may also not be an appropriate point of discussion, given the medium. Finally, merit may also be a point of personal preference, in which case it cannot be discussed because it isn’t logical, but rather emotional; all you’d be doing is shouting: “this is my opinion, please tell me you agree with me!”.

Items #2 & #3 may have merit, but they aren’t items that lend themselves to any constructive conversation because they are either purely opinions, not yet supported by facts, or are not appropriate conversations for this forum. As such, they are just reiterations of arguments.

The only reason I own the pick was to test the functionality regarding the potential loss of the bonus ore (which, side note, I finally did receive a single bonus ore with it for the first time earlier this week). I personally don’t like the idea of getting bonus items from using the pick, but I also understand that it is a non-issue because the advantage it provides is still purely convenience (it helps you earn fake money slightly faster, so the advantage is not over other players but rather in that it saves you a minute amount of time).

I’m frequently contrary, but that’s primarily because I have a compulsion to correct bad arguments.

mtpelion.4562:

Items #2 & #3 may have merit, but they aren’t items that lend themselves to any constructive conversation because they are either purely opinions, not yet supported by facts, or are not appropriate conversations for this forum. As such, they are just reiterations of arguments.

I believe #2 was precedent. In which case, it does lend itself to constructive conversation, or it would if not for you and the people like you out to mock and not actually add anything constructive.

As I’ve seen many people say in this forum and elsewhere before: ANet is not a charity, they are a business. And as a business, short of player feedback, they are going to release whatever they can that makes them even more money.

You say there’s no data point. There’s no precedent because it’s only the first time.

I say you’re bloody well ignoring modern business practices of the last decade, as well as basically every other cash shop that has ever existed in any game with a cash shop.

But please. Enlighten me. Even though ANet is a business and as such will, without feedback, make business-like decisions, like every other business in the world, what is it that makes ANet somehow better in that regards. What makes them magically able to not raise the stakes every time without feedback?

There’s plenty of data points. It’s called the world. It’s called the business world. It’s called “that part of the gaming industry where cashshops are a thing”.

mtpelion.4562:

I personally don’t like the idea of getting bonus items from using the pick,

So then…you agree with the people who dislike the pick (generally speaking, obviously you don’t agree with certain arguments). Yet you’re against us, because…

mtpelion.4562:

but I also understand that it is a non-issue because the advantage it provides is still purely convenience

Oh, this argument again. The one that ignores every other argument people have made. Like, you know, the one where no other pick in game does this kind of thing.

Basically, even this argument of yours banks on “LOL SPROCKETS ARE WORTHLESS GUYS SO IT’S OKAY.”

So answer me this. What if sprockets weren’t worthless?

mtpelion.4562:

I’m frequently contrary, but that’s primarily because I have a compulsion to correct bad arguments.

Too bad your own arguments in this instance are fairly bad.

People have posted here, with worries about the direction the cash chop is taking, because they care about the game and want to see it succeed and not go down the paths of other games, some of which are NCsoft titles.

And all you do is mock them, adding nothing to what could be a constructive conversation. Because you’re ultimately not even willing to hear or entertain the arguments being said. You’ve already decided they’re without merit because you magically know ANet is without flaw and would never go down the path that other, similar titles already have.

But of course, you still disagree with the pick in theory! So obviously you’ll be there if the day were to ever come that everything really did hit the fan! And you’ll be such a help! Joining those fellow voices when it’s already too late! Brava to you! Brava I say!

Gene Archer.8560:

I believe #2 was precedent. In which case, it does lend itself to constructive conversation, or it would if not for you and the people like you out to mock and not actually add anything constructive.

As I’ve seen many people say in this forum and elsewhere before: ANet is not a charity, they are a business. And as a business, short of player feedback, they are going to release whatever they can that makes them even more money.

You say there’s no data point. There’s no precedent because it’s only the first time.

I say you’re bloody well ignoring modern business practices of the last decade, as well as basically every other cash shop that has ever existed in any game with a cash shop.

But please. Enlighten me. Even though ANet is a business and as such will, without feedback, make business-like decisions, like every other business in the world, what is it that makes ANet somehow better in that regards. What makes them magically able to not raise the stakes every time without feedback?

There’s plenty of data points. It’s called the world. It’s called the business world. It’s called “that part of the gaming industry where cashshops are a thing”.

Allow me to summarize your argument: Germany had a depression. Germany invaded Poland. Kenya is having a depression. I therefore conclude that without a doubt, Kenya is going to invade Poland.

See how silly your argument is? That is why slippery slopes are fallacies. You don’t have a data set that backs up your argument, you have an inference based on unrelated things extrapolated to an unproven result.

So then…you agree with the people who dislike the pick (generally speaking, obviously you don’t agree with certain arguments). Yet you’re against us, because…

mtpelion.4562:

but I also understand that it is a non-issue because the advantage it provides is still purely convenience

Oh, this argument again. The one that ignores every other argument people have made. Like, you know, the one where no other pick in game does this kind of thing.

Basically, even this argument of yours banks on “LOL SPROCKETS ARE WORTHLESS GUYS SO IT’S OKAY.”

So answer me this. What if sprockets weren’t worthless?

The value of the sprockets is irrelevant. All the pick does is speed up your acquisition of them. It’s no different from Karma, Magic Find, or XP boosters. Or instant repair kits. You are paying real life money or in game time (gold to gem conversion) and in exchange you are receiving an item that saves you time. That is the definition of convenience.

Too bad your own arguments in this instance are fairly bad.

People have posted here, with worries about the direction the cash chop is taking, because they care about the game and want to see it succeed and not go down the paths of other games, some of which are NCsoft titles.

And all you do is mock them, adding nothing to what could be a constructive conversation. Because you’re ultimately not even willing to hear or entertain the arguments being said. You’ve already decided they’re without merit because you magically know ANet is without flaw and would never go down the path that other, similar titles already have.

But of course, you still disagree with the pick in theory! So obviously you’ll be there if the day were to ever come that everything really did hit the fan! And you’ll be such a help! Joining those fellow voices when it’s already too late! Brava to you! Brava I say!

I mock them for continuing to repeat debunked arguments. Try again.

mtpelion.4562:

Allow me to summarize your argument: Germany had a depression. Germany invaded Poland. Kenya is having a depression. I therefore conclude that without a doubt, Kenya is going to invade Poland.

My argument would be more akin to: Germany had a depression and a host of sociological issues, as well as an insane tyrant for a leader, and a decently sized military. Germany invaded Poland.

Kenya is having a depression and a host of sociological issues, as well as an insane tyrant for a leader, and a decent sized military (it doesn’t, so far as I know, but that’s beside the point of the analogy). I therefore conclude that Kenya is very likely to invade a sovereign nation in a manner similar to how Germany invaded Poland unless a careful eye is kept and preventative measures are taken.

If that’s a silly argument to you, then the only thing you and I will probably ever see eye to eye on is the unfortunate population problems that DR faces every time the LS events hit the second day of being alive.

mtpelion.4562:

See how silly your argument is? That is why slippery slopes are fallacies. You don’t have a data set that backs up your argument, you have an inference based on unrelated things extrapolated to an unproven result.

Allow me to summarize your argument: ANet would never act like a business, even though it’s a business, nor would it make business-like decisions in a market of business, with other businesses, that have already been down this road, and made the decision that generally increases profit, which is what businesses do. And ANet won’t act like this because I magically know they’re better than that, even though they’ve just released an item that tests those very same waters that have been tested before!

History has never repeated itself, after all! Russia would never encroach on the sovereignty of another nation after what happened with Georgia!

mtpelion.4562:

I mock them for continuing to repeat debunked arguments. Try again.

The problem is that you mock them at all. Nice reply change, by the way. Do tell about the personal attacks I made. Please, by all means. I’m curious.

Gene Archer.8560:

My argument would be more akin to: Germany had a depression and a host of sociological issues, as well as an insane tyrant for a leader, and a decently sized military. Germany invaded Poland.

Kenya is having a depression and a host of sociological issues, as well as an insane tyrant for a leader, and a decent sized military (it doesn’t, so far as I know, but that’s beside the point of the analogy). I therefore conclude that Kenya is very likely to invade a sovereign nation in a manner similar to how Germany invaded Poland unless a careful eye is kept and preventative measures are taken.

If that’s a silly argument to you, then the only thing you and I will probably ever see eye to eye on is the unfortunate population problems that DR faces every time the LS events hit the second day of being alive.

Keeping a watchful eye on something you believe to be likely is a perfectly fine use of a slippery slope argument (hence the “may be valid”). The problem is that the argument has been presented as being a precedent, which is something that ensures something in the future which has not yet been proven to be the case, thus it is a slippery slope.

By all means, watch them like a hawk. Just be aware that you don’t yet have the evidence that your surveillance is justified.

Aside: It’s a shame we can’t see eye to eye on this, but we should definitely team up sometime on our dying server!

Allow me to summarize your argument: ANet would never act like a business, even though it’s a business, nor would it make business-like decisions in a market of business, with other businesses, that have already been down this road, and made the decision that generally increases profit, which is what businesses do. And ANet won’t act like this because I magically know they’re better than that, even though they’ve just released an item that tests those very same waters that have been tested before!

History has never repeated itself, after all! Russia would never encroach on the sovereignty of another nation after what happened with Georgia!

Never said anything of the sort. I fully defend them making business decisions because they are a business. I’ve simply said that there is no evidence of a trend yet, nor have their decisions so far met the definition of P2W. They are selling convenience, which is fine by me.

The problem is that you mock them at all. Nice reply change, by the way. Do tell about the personal attacks I made. Please, by all means. I’m curious.

I mock the P2W people. I correct the others.
I misread your post and corrected my response accordingly.

The debate regarding ‘precedent’ can be put to rest … the latest harvesting tool doesn’t give bonus mats (the spinny robot barrel thing). There is your Anet response. Of course, that doesn’t mean Anet won’t do it again … which is only more reason to be prepared to buy it if they do.

So, all you watchwork defenders who pointed out that the pick isn’t OP because of the ‘cheap’ sprockets..

Price of sprockets has jumped 100% overnight.

I guess it’s not OP now to have sprockets sell at +1.2s now?

When they’re at iron prices, then I’ll feel a little bad about having a watchwork pick.

Vol.7601:

So, all you watchwork defenders who pointed out that the pick isn’t OP because of the ‘cheap’ sprockets..

Price of sprockets has jumped 100% overnight.

I guess it’s not OP now to have sprockets sell at +1.2s now?

I bought 3 of them .. i already made maybe 30 Gold since than with sprocktes … tomorrow i will rule the word.

Ohh .. i forgot to mention that i still have to make another 210 gold first, and that in the last 4 weeks i was doing nearly nothing else than harvesting Iron Ore, and i made maybe 1000 Golds with selling steel ingots.

Close this thread already. Get over it.

I don’t even see this in the gem store anymore, so does this thread even serve a purpose?

I guess when people run out of things to complain about, they would create threads to complain about phantom items.

On the other hand, if this watchwork mining pick ever do come on sale in the gem store again, I would definitely buy it now because of all the “advertisements” from this thread.

DarkSpirit.7046:

I don’t even see this in the gem store anymore, so does this thread even serve a purpose?

I guess when people run out of things to complain about, they would create threads to complain about phantom items.

On the other hand, if this watchwork mining pick ever do come on sale in the gem store again, I would definitely buy it now because of all the “advertisements” from this thread.

I mean I bought it and have been using it, but I still think it’s not right and I am not a defender of the pick. Does that make me a hypocrite? no, because my argument, and OP’s argument, and the argument that nobody seems to be able to grasp is that this sets a precedent.

I couldn’t care less about sprockets (well I need them for the spinal blade pack but that’s very small), I couldn’t care about the small margin of profit, that’s not why I bought it, and that’s not why I’m complaining about it. I’m afraid with the introduction of this tool there will be more and more gem shop items that are only exclusive to rich people and that give all kinds of advantages over others. Are my fears unfounded? that’s a matter of opinion.

And I still can’t believe people cannot understand this simple thing, and must resort to stupid strawmans to somehow belittle the OP and everyone who agrees with him.

oh and inb4 someone only reads half of my post and we start an argument over the meaning of the word “hypocrite”

Pie Flavor.1647:

I’m afraid with the introduction of this tool there will be more and more gem shop items that are only exclusive to rich people and that give all kinds of advantages over others. Are my fears unfounded? that’s a matter of opinion.

Think, you are talking about a MMO that allows people to convert real cash into gold in the game. Rich people are already having an advantage in this game! Just that, surprisingly, some of you have not even realized this. Take a moment and let that sink in…

So you are afraid of something that has already happened on the very first day of release.

There was a car maker in America once, they car they made got better gas mileage and was safer and was competitive to any vehicle created by Ford, Chevy or Chrysler. It was the “Tucker”, they failed because the public didn’t recognize the potential in the vehicle and because this “start-up” company was an unknown.

This watchwork pick is a lot like the car because it took a good idea (infinite harvesting tools or assembly line cars) and made it better. As sprockets approach 1.2S, I realize that this pick is the only one I have purchased that will pay for itself in any other fashion than saved inventory space/convenience and time.

One last analogy, I bought an Apple G3 years ago, awesome computer, super fast and very expensive, I think I paid $2800US for it back in 2002ish, if memory serves. 2 weeks after I bought it, the G4 was released. I was kittened because here comes the next best thing and I have another 12 months to pay for second best.

Did ANet make a mistake with the pick? Yup, the blowback was insane which is why the new sickle is the same vanilla as the molten/bone shard/chop it all variants. Should people who bought the pick feel bad because they were lucky enough to buy the “Tucker” of harvesting tools? No way. Sprockets can get to 5S and I won’t feel guilty.

Getting mad because “it’s not fair” is ridiculous, failure to see the potential in this pick was a very common mistake and I didn’t get the pick because of the sprockets, I got it because it looks cool. ANet tested the waters and pulled back from building more Tuckers and went back to building Fords. How this pick ultimately gives someone an advantage as a player and not as a gold gatherer is beyond me, get over it and move on.

For full transparency, I own 5 salvage-matics, 3 bone picks, a molten pick, the silly jack in the box scythe, the aetherblade scythe, the chop it all axe and the toxic axe. All my toons have the infinite tools in some fashion though not all have all infinite harvesting tools.

Cassocaster.4576:

Getting mad because “it’s not fair” is ridiculous, failure to see the potential in this pick was a very common mistake

So how is that different from straight-out converting that 1000 gems into gold instead of buying the pick. How many watchwork sprockets would that 1000 gems (converted to gold) get you compared to buying the pick?

Of course people who have 1000 gems can always convert that to a significant amount of gold, with or without the pick. But we already know that don’t we?

DarkSpirit.7046:

Cassocaster.4576:

Getting mad because “it’s not fair” is ridiculous, failure to see the potential in this pick was a very common mistake

So how is that different from straight-out converting that 1000 gems into gold instead of buying the pick. How many watchwork sprockets would that 1000 gems (converted to gold) get you compared to buying the pick?

Of course people who have 1000 gems can always convert that to a significant amount of gold, with or without the pick. But we already know that don’t we?

well, 65 gold for the gems would give me about 6300 sprockets, at today’s prices but your question was likely rhetorical. As I stated, I didn’t get the pick because of the sprockets and were it not for the ascended spinal guard as part of the final Scarlet LS, I might not have even paid them any mind. I guess what I am trying to understand is why people even care. If a friend and I buy lottery tickets and he wins and I don’t, I am happy for them, not mad. I am not comparing the pick to a lottery ticket but all I see in this rather long thread is people upset their infinite harvesting items don’t give a kick back.

As far as your gold comment, 1000 gems is a very small amount of gold in the big picture and cost about $12US. People probably spend more on coffee in a couple days….

Cassocaster.4576:

As far as your gold comment, 1000 gems is a very small amount of gold in the big picture and cost about $12US. People probably spend more on coffee in a couple days….

That’s right, which shows just how ridiculous this thread is. People keep complaining about a pick that would probably give you much < 6300 sprockets over a period of years, which translates to only $12US.

So we are spending all that time complaining about an advantage that is worth much less than a cup of coffee.

The pick itself is irrelevant when you consider that the people who can afford to buy one, can already afford to buy 6300 sprockets with their gems.

Vol.7601:

So, all you watchwork defenders who pointed out that the pick isn’t OP because of the ‘cheap’ sprockets..

Price of sprockets has jumped 100% overnight.

I guess it’s not OP now to have sprockets sell at +1.2s now?

If the drop rate was 300% instead of 30%, you might have a point. Besides, it’s easy to defend … everyone could buy one. The sprockets are up because of anticipated demand once living world was over. If more people owned the pick, sprockets wouldn’t be over 1s. Of course, it’s not the lack of picks making sprockets spike in price … it’s speculators. Frankly, this was an easy one to call.

The real fun will be to see if they EVER try to sell the molten or bone picks ever again…

Nike.2631:

The real fun will be to see if they EVER try to sell the molten or bone picks ever again…

I’m sure they’ll sell them again. Or at least ones that mirror the same functionality. They’re selling a threshing tool that to my knowledge doesn’t have any added bonuses or features.

Vol.7601:

So, all you watchwork defenders who pointed out that the pick isn’t OP because of the ‘cheap’ sprockets..

Price of sprockets has jumped 100% overnight.

I guess it’s not OP now to have sprockets sell at +1.2s now?

Everyone had the option to buy one of these picks. Every. Single. Player. It wasn’t restricted to a special few people. Everyone. Coming along after the fact and reviling those who decided to buy it is kind of silly.

Kanebrake.6192:

Nike.2631:

The real fun will be to see if they EVER try to sell the molten or bone picks ever again…

I’m sure they’ll sell them again. Or at least ones that mirror the same functionality. They’re selling a threshing tool that to my knowledge doesn’t have any added bonuses or features.

The most fun of all is to see if ANYONE from ANET even cares enough to look at posts that concern players……If you look at the number of responses it’s 6 TOTAL thread responses in the first 2 pages (2 of them were to close the threads ) now that is interest and involvement!!

Kanebrake.6192:

Vol.7601:

So, all you watchwork defenders who pointed out that the pick isn’t OP because of the ‘cheap’ sprockets..

Price of sprockets has jumped 100% overnight.

I guess it’s not OP now to have sprockets sell at +1.2s now?

Everyone had the option to buy one of these picks. Every. Single. Player. It wasn’t restricted to a special few people. Everyone. Coming along after the fact and reviling those who decided to buy it is kind of silly.

LOL ‘after the fact’ I am pretty sure this thread was started during the sprocket pick sale. I for one knew about it during the sale, and intentionally did not buy it, because I will not support Anet in their P2W schemes.

tkarr.9152:

Kanebrake.6192:

Nike.2631:

The real fun will be to see if they EVER try to sell the molten or bone picks ever again…

I’m sure they’ll sell them again. Or at least ones that mirror the same functionality. They’re selling a threshing tool that to my knowledge doesn’t have any added bonuses or features.

The most fun of all is to see if ANYONE from ANET even cares enough to look at posts that concern players……If you look at the number of responses it’s 6 TOTAL thread responses in the first 2 pages (2 of them were to close the threads ) now that is interest and involvement!!

As it is right now, there is nothing, absolutely NOTHING, worth buying in the gem store as the gem/gold conversion keeps going up in favor of gems, making their already-expensive cosmetic-only items even more expensive. They are so afraid of being called P2W that the only thing gems are good for is to convert them to gold.

Unless anyone here failed his elementary school math, even if the pick comes back, with the price of 1000 gems, with 1000 gems converted to gold today, you can buy thousands of sprockets. That is so much more than the pick can ever mine for you in many years to come. So is the pick really P2W? I don’t think so, if the price is so high that you can already win more sprockets without buying it than to buy it. Sounds more like P2L to me.

I think Anet should just delete all the sprocket picks from the game and call it good, it would be in line with what they like to do. For example remove people’s fractal achievements moving them down from 80 to 30, or making glory boosters totally pointless but not providing any sort of compensation of any sort.

dAcIaW.5107:

I think Anet should just delete all the sprocket picks from the game and call it good, it would be in line with what they like to do. For example remove people’s fractal achievements moving them down from 80 to 30, or making glory boosters totally pointless but not providing any sort of compensation of any sort.

Don’t forget to refund the price if they deleted items that people have actually paid for. They would be able to buy more sprockets with their refund than with the pick itself.

Or better yet, actually introduce something in their gem store that is mathematically proven to be worth buying FOR ONCE!

Hopefully, I know this would never happen, people here would learn how to perform elementary school math on item pricing before they claim something to be P2W when they are really P2L.

Scenario:

“New vendor added to the ruins of Lion’s Arch. He satisfies all your gathering tool needs, and in addition, he’s sealed a deal to be the sole outlet for the new Watchwork Infinite Mining Pick! Not like other infinite picks, no sirree! Due to its unique construction, it has the ability to magically extract sprockets from any ore node you mine! Amazing, no? Of course, this brand new technology comes with a steep price, but you’d expect nothing less for cutting edge machinery! 90G cash on the barrel and you walk away with it, and can whack nodes to your hearts content forever more!”

Ok, dubious advertising material aside, the gist is there.

Would those still claiming this pick is P2W consider THIS P2W despite the item being 100% accessible to all players via in-game currency?

As noted many times, anyone can generate gold, eventually, to buy this thing. Likewise, and all along, anyone could dish out real world cash to buy gems to convert to gold, to come into the game and buy it immediately.

Still P2W? Maybe looking at the gem store as just a really expensive in-game vendor could offer perspective.

DarkSpirit.7046:

Or better yet, actually introduce something in their gem store that is mathematically proven to be worth buying FOR ONCE!

Hehe, but all infinite gathering tools are mathematically proven to be worth buying. It’s just a question of whether you believe you’ll be playing (and gathering) long enough for it to pay off.

Having said that, gem store items need to stay very close to purely cosmetic to avoid long term, potentially undesirable, ripples in the game economy. I’d wager most of the people that have bought infinite gathering items will never see any major payoff in terms of in-game profits. Instead, they’ll just get major payoffs in terms of convenience, which is the point. In which case, these items are working as intended.

Kruhljak.2705:

DarkSpirit.7046:

Or better yet, actually introduce something in their gem store that is mathematically proven to be worth buying FOR ONCE!

Hehe, but all infinite gathering tools are mathematically proven to be worth buying. It’s just a question of whether you believe you’ll be playing (and gathering) long enough for it to pay off.

That is total BS. None of the infinite gathering tools are mathematically proven to be worth buying, quite the opposite. These people simply failed their elementary school math. They will take so many years to break even that most of them probably wouldn’t even be playing this game by then, much less mining consistently every day between then and now to break even. I am not even going to mention karma and the option to buy cheaper picks for mining the lesser ores.

Kruhljak.2705:

Having said that, gem store items need to stay very close to purely cosmetic to avoid long term, potentially undesirable, ripples in the game economy. I’d wager most of the people that have bought infinite gathering items will never see any major payoff in terms of in-game profits. Instead, they’ll just get major payoffs in terms of convenience, which is the point. In which case, these items are working as intended.

Then they are paying too much for too little convenience as most of them do not even realize that WvW merchants also sell gathering tools and you can enter WvW where ever you are.

Besides, this thread is all about claiming that the watchwork pick is P2W because it returns more gold, in the form of sprockets, than you put into buying the pick itself. This is totally BS.

How can it be considered P2W if you lose more gold buying it, than not buying it? Overpaying for small convenience is one thing, calling something that is so expensive that it causes you to lose more gold to buy and use it, a P2W item is another. That is just being stupid.