Guild Wars 2

This the kind of armor people are asking for more of in the post.

This is a reason i enjoy Tera over GW2 armor and weapons.. that said there is a limit though i happened across a MMO called Scarlet blade, that too me was too much..

but yes some skin is a lot nicer than 50 trench coats of varying lengths..

Mad Queen Malafide.7512:

phlemhacker.1372:

This really sums up the argument. There is nothing inherently sexual about clothing or even the lack thereof. It is the actions of a person that determine how they should be seen and treated. Now historically, at least in this country, revealing clothes started to be associated with hookers and whatnot because that is what a lot of them wore. In this game however, none of the characters in the game perform any actions that would get them labeled as sexual objects, and therefore should not immediately be assumed that’s what they are.

I’m going to disagree with that. While it is true that many of the women in this game are portrayed normally. The fact that sexy outfits had to be included for women, but not for men, shows that video games still haven’t gotten over the “women are hot” phase yet. It is objectification of women. And it has been going on for a very long time now. I encourage many of you to watch this video from Extra Credits regarding women in video games. It might open your eyes to what we’re objecting to:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R8ZVZRsy8N8

I watched the whole video (that guys voice is massively obnoxious) and from what I could tell, he doesn’t care if the girls are hot in the game, he is worried about how they are marketed in the games. Now last time I checked, Guild Wars 2 did a fantastic job of not plastering boobies all over their promotional material. Sooo…what’s the problem with this game here?

Zeefa.3915:

http://humon.deviantart.com/art/Skimpy-armor-for-dudes-289282243

Equality, sure go ahead Now give more skimpy for everyone + some not skimpy stuff.

Kinda looks like 300 movie

Also the Celtic warriors were mostly naked fighting the Romans

I really would like to vote for armour equality first and foremost. Why do the female characters (besides the asura and charr, I suppose) get the skimpiest armour? Also, why are the skimpiest armour sets for males in the Heavy category? That just makes no sense.

Winged armour. It looks fantastic on the female human, norn and sylvari, but the male counterpart (and the unisex for charr and asura) just looks so darn boring in comparison.
Then there’s the human light T3 cultural. Skimpy for females, but super boring for males.
The human T3 medium cultural female set has underboob. Males are completely covered??? How is that fair?

This game isn’t just played by men who like to ogle pretty female characters. There are also a whole lot of girls and women playing this (like me) who want to be able to ogle their pretty male characters properly. Covering them up completely is such a waste. Seriously.

Yes to skimpy armour, but please make it skimpy for both genders!

Mad Queen Malafide.7512:

As they explain in this episode from Extra Credits, there is nothing wrong with women being portrayed as sexy. But it is the sexist marketing that is so pervasive in the industry, that sets a terrible example. And that just bothers a lot of people, and not just women.

…which is the same message you disagreed with.

phlemhacker.1372:

This really sums up the argument. There is nothing inherently sexual about clothing or even the lack thereof. It is the actions of a person that determine how they should be seen and treated.

i.e. there isn’t anything sexual about clothing in and of itself, but if an marketing team puts a perverted spin on it, you can make anything sexual. Now is a bubble bath inherently sexual? Of course not! Kids love bubble baths and bubbles in general…but that won’t stop advertisers to spin it into something it isn’t inherently.

http://epicdemotivational.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/04/so-demotivational-posters-bubble-baths.jpg

http://salbehe.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/10/bubble-bath_him.jpg

Onshidesigns.1069:

This the kind of armor people are asking for more of in the post.

Um, the first one already exists, in fact, it looks like a cosplay. And the second one is bland, conventional, and not at all stylish. At least have the armor look good.

Mad Queen Malafide.7512:

Jemmi.6058:

Just curious. Are you against women being attractive?

If you had watched the video, you would not be asking that question dear.

As they explain in this episode from Extra Credits, there is nothing wrong with women being portrayed as sexy. But it is the sexist marketing that is so pervasive in the industry, that sets a terrible example. And that just bothers a lot of people, and not just women.

1. There is nothing wrong with women being portrayed as sexy
2. We’re asking for more revealing armors here, meaning either;
*) ANet doesn’t have enough of ’em
*) We inherently want them

Which brings us the question:
What’s the problem here again?

Another full circle on the way!

Leo G.4501:

i.e. there isn’t anything sexual about clothing in and of itself, but if an marketing team puts a perverted spin on it, you can make anything sexual. Now is a bubble bath inherently sexual? Of course not! Kids love bubble baths and bubbles in general…but that won’t stop advertisers to spin it into something it isn’t inherently.

That’s not the point I was trying to make. Allow me to clarify. Clothing can definitely be sexual and offensive. In fact, some of the outfits in GW2 for female characters clearly are more than just a little provocative.

But you can also have normal sexy outfits (which is not the same as outfits that blatantly show your underwear). There’s nothing wrong with showing a bit of skin in itself. We are not prudes. Bare skin does not offend us. Its the stereotypical depiction of women that offends us.

But what the gaming industry has done, and especially MMO’s, is market women in a pretty offensive way. Just look at the boothbabes that litter gaming conventions. Or all the women in skimpy outfits that are all over box art for games. Men are not marketed this way, they only do this to women, and they’ve been doing so for a very long time. This has tarnished the image of the gaming industry for a lot of women. Hell, even Guild Wars 1 is guilty of that:

http://wiki.guildwars.com/images/thumb/a/ae/Prophecies_Box_Art_Eve.jpg/200px-Prophecies_Box_Art_Eve.jpg

Countless MMO’s portray women in down right offensive outfits, where the female characters are basically stripped down to their underwear. Kudos to Anet for having the sense to at least change the design of one of the heavy armors, so it isn’t just a hand holding an exposed boob. But that’s the kind of designs a lot of female gamers have to deal with all the time. And sure, no one is forcing anyone to wear these outfits… but why this double standard? Why not treat female characters like they treat male characters, and just give them normal armors?

GuardianOMS.8067:

Onshidesigns.1069:

This the kind of armor people are asking for more of in the post.

Um, the first one already exists, in fact, it looks like a cosplay. And the second one is bland, conventional, and not at all stylish. At least have the armor look good.

Only one set similar to the first one. But it’s not the same armor.

I liked the ‘hand holding the boob’ design. It was unique and “edgy”, while not showing off anything you wouldn’t see in any other light armor outfit.

You can answer all your questions by remembering that males are the intended audience for these games.

GuardianOMS.8067:

You can answer all your questions by remembering that males are the intended audience for these games.

But they shouldn’t be. Plenty of women play games these days. Especially MMO’s cater to an audience that is pretty 50/50 made out of men and women. And I’ll admit not having exact figures on that. But it might be interesting to walk into Lion’s Arch on any given day, and ask how many of the players are men, and how many are women. I’m pretty sure a lot of them are women.

Anyone can forgive a game like God of War for having scantily clad women, because men are clearly the target audience. But there are a lot of games that have a wider appeal. This sort of sexism hurts that potential to appeal to female gamers.

GuardianOMS.8067:

You can answer all your questions by remembering that males are the intended audience for these games.

That’s an incredibly sexist statement.
And even if it’s true, then developers are insane for catering to a predominantly male audience. If they make games that appeal to both sexes without ostracising one in favour of the other, they have potentially doubled their audience.

Mad Queen Malafide.7512:

GuardianOMS.8067:

You can answer all your questions by remembering that males are the intended audience for these games.

rabble rabble rabble

I think you’re forgetting the fact that we don’t live in the perfect, equal, world. Video games are no exception. The GW2 forum is not a good place to attempt a soap box speech. We all get where you’re coming from, lots of us even agree with you, but there’s nothing ranting on the forums will accomplish. Did you ever see the web episode of Hey Ash Whatcha’ Playin’ when she spoke to a game developer at PAX about this issue? It was some awkwardly funny stuff. Give it a watch.

Of surveys conducted and general gamer population (as reliable as a survey can be), video games, especially MMOs are predominantly male. Don’t kid yourself that that’s not a fact. Yes, females make a good portion these days, but they are not the majority or targeted audience, and are least likely to stay with a game as long as a male will.

Mungrul.9358:

GuardianOMS.8067:

You can answer all your questions by remembering that males are the intended audience for these games.

That’s an incredibly sexist statement.
And even if it’s true, then developers are insane for catering to a predominantly male audience. If they make games that appeal to both sexes without ostracising one in favour of the other, they have potentially doubled their audience.

Truth hurts. Here’s some more you might not have known, the majority of game designers and developers are heterosexual males. Shhhhh, don’t tell anyone. And we all know what they want to see. bow chicka bow wow

GuardianOMS.8067:

Mad Queen Malafide.7512:

GuardianOMS.8067:

You can answer all your questions by remembering that males are the intended audience for these games.

rabble rabble rabble

I think you’re forgetting the fact that we don’t live in the perfect, equal, world. Video games are no exception. The GW2 forum is not a good place to attempt a soap box speech. We all get where you’re coming from, lots of us even agree with you, but there’s nothing ranting on the forums will accomplish. Did you ever see the web episode of Hey Ash Whatcha’ Playin’ when she spoke to a game developer at PAX about this issue? It was some awkwardly funny stuff. Give it a watch.

Of surveys conducted and general gamer population (as reliable as a survey can be), video games, especially MMOs are predominantly male. Don’t kid yourself that that’s not a fact. Yes, females make a good portion these days, but they are not the majority or targeted audience, and are least likely to stay with a game as long as a male will.

Mungrul.9358:

GuardianOMS.8067:

You can answer all your questions by remembering that males are the intended audience for these games.

That’s an incredibly sexist statement.
And even if it’s true, then developers are insane for catering to a predominantly male audience. If they make games that appeal to both sexes without ostracising one in favour of the other, they have potentially doubled their audience.

Truth hurts. Here’s some more you might not have known, the majority of game designers and developers are heterosexual males. Shhhhh, don’t tell anyone. And we all know what they want to see. bow chicka bow wow

A “perfect, equal, world” would be a world where nudity was fully accepted by everyone. And everyone was confident in their own self image.

GuardianOMS.8067:

I think you’re forgetting the fact that we don’t live in the perfect, equal, world. Video games are no exception. The GW2 forum is not a good place to attempt a soap box speech. We all get where you’re coming from, lots of us even agree with you, but there’s nothing ranting on the forums will accomplish.

I disagree. The world is what you make of it. And the only way to inspire a change, is by making developers more aware of this issue. If more of us would stand up against this stereotype, you can be sure that things would start to change. Keeping silent is the worst thing you could do. We need more women working in the games industry, and we need to make male designers more aware that they are appealing to a wider audience.

Guild Wars 1 and 2 both set a better standard in regards to the portrayal of women, when you compare the games to other MMO’s. But that is why it saddens me when they still venture into this sexist territory. I think many of us would have hoped the industry would have matured enough by now. Videogames appeal to a much older audience these days. Videogames contain more and more mature content, but in regards to writing, and the depiction of genders we’re not very mature yet. And I realize that makes me sound like a soapbox drama, but so be it.

I think it is important to make people think about these issues. You don’t have to agree with me, and its fine if you enjoy your skimpy outfits. But try and understand how this comes across to women. (and that’s basically my message to everyone else in the topic, not you, because I get the impression that you understand exactly what I’m talking about)

Mad Queen Malafide.7512:

I disagree. The world is what you make of it. And the only way to inspire a change, is by making developers more aware of this issue. If more of us would stand up against this stereotype, you can be sure that things would start to change. Keeping silent is the worst thing you could do. We need more women working in the games industry, and we need to make male designers more aware that they are appealing to a wider audience.

And to achieve that, ranting about it in a thread asking for developers to add more revealing outfit is not the first step.

Go to facebook or something, or to UN’s division for women’s stuff. Ask them to nag developers about it, ask women to start majoring in art, especially 3D modelling, 2d drawing, and story writing then have them apply for work in major game studios; get more women to play video games, maybe THEN, something will happen.

Men wants what men wants. I know, this is incredibly surprising to you, but the more you know.

Now, please. Less killing joys, more worthy discussion

Mad Queen Malafide.7512:

But what the gaming industry has done, and especially MMO’s, is market women in a pretty offensive way. Just look at the boothbabes that litter gaming conventions. Or all the women in skimpy outfits that are all over box art for games. Men are not marketed this way, they only do this to women, and they’ve been doing so for a very long time. This has tarnished the image of the gaming industry for a lot of women. Hell, even Guild Wars 1 is guilty of that:

Countless MMO’s portray women in down right offensive outfits, where the female characters are basically stripped down to their underwear. Kudos to Anet for having the sense to at least change the design of one of the heavy armors, so it isn’t just a hand holding an exposed boob. But that’s the kind of designs a lot of female gamers have to deal with all the time. And sure, no one is forcing anyone to wear these outfits… but why this double standard? Why not treat female characters like they treat male characters, and just give them normal armors?

The world of marketing is one that seeks results. Not that I’m disagreeing with your points, but it’s going to take a lot more than some game designer wagging his finger at gamers through a webseries or complaining on a forum.

And I’m not dismissing his or anyone’s efforts in particular, the gaming market speaks for itself…bad games don’t get bought, good games get more acclaim, profitable games get marketed more (and of course there are going to be exceptions to that). The image of women is wholly beside the point and even Mr. Portnow touches on gamer girls needing to play their part if a transition is to be made. Guys shouldn’t let themselves be manipulated into buying things just because of some TnA and girls should look past TnA and enjoy a game for what it is to get their foothold in the gaming market. When the female demographic is shown to be a major consumer of a product, the marketing professionals would be smart enough to not blow a huge share of their profits with bad advertising.

That is, you don’t put the wagon before the horse. You don’t not market your product to its intended audience to attempt to attract an audience that aren’t interested in your product. If your problem is how females are used to advertise games, the blame doesn’t fall squarely on the shoulders of males. Females should be expected to look past it to the game itself just like males are expected to look past the same thing to the game itself.

And pointing at every little peep of cleavage is doing the exact opposite of that.

Mad Queen Malafide.7512:

GuardianOMS.8067:

I think you’re forgetting the fact that we don’t live in the perfect, equal, world. Video games are no exception. The GW2 forum is not a good place to attempt a soap box speech. We all get where you’re coming from, lots of us even agree with you, but there’s nothing ranting on the forums will accomplish.

But try and understand how this comes across to women. (and that’s basically my message to everyone else in the topic, not you, because I get the impression that you understand exactly what I’m talking about)

If you’re going to attempt a sexism rampage, start here: Sexism doesn’t affect and offend just one sex, it hurts both. There are men that are willing to take your side, but they’ll be hesitant to do so if you come off as a sexist for the other side instead, and not equal rights.

And yes, I do know where you’re coming from. Being that gaming is in my interests, i have had good, long debates with friends and boyfriends about booth babes and how they get under my skin. I’ve had this battle, and it’s not going to be won on the GW2 suggestion forum.

My fundamental argument is that sexism is awful but screw it, this is a game. Take my money and make sexy leather armour.

there is nothing wrong with sexy but keep in mind that this game is still a T rated game, believe me when i say i love to see shiny catsuits and skimpy leather clothing for females but it just can’t be in a game rated for teens.

sorudo.9054:

there is nothing wrong with sexy but keep in mind that this game is still a T rated game, believe me when i say i love to see shiny catsuits and skimpy leather clothing for females but it just can’t be in a game rated for teens.

Someone else said here (forgot the post, too sleepy to search) that revealing outfits (as long as it’s not full frontal nudity) is still covered in Teen. Mature is for the alcohol and the rude language

sorudo.9054:

there is nothing wrong with sexy but keep in mind that this game is still a T rated game, believe me when i say i love to see shiny catsuits and skimpy leather clothing for females but it just can’t be in a game rated for teens.

ESRB:Teen
Content is generally suitable for ages 13 and up. May contain violence, suggestive themes, crude humor, minimal blood, simulated gambling and/or infrequent use of strong language.

MATURE:
Content is generally suitable for ages 17 and up. May contain intense violence, blood and gore, sexual content and/or strong language.

What this post is suggesting would fall under “suggestive themes”.

For it to be considered “sexual content”. There needs to be something more than revialing outfits.

To be pretty precise, I’m talking about armors such as these:

These screenshots are armor mods for Skyrim

the first is Schwertleite heavy armor by xinavro

the second is a retexture of Princess of the Woods by Dreamburrow. The armor mesh itself was made by SydneyB

As you can see, they’re quite revealing alright, but also looks good and fashionable. I want that kind of armor

Although I could use more skins, but I’d take good fashion above nudity any day

sexual content requires nudity, sexual acts, or clothes deemed sexual like clothes that outline the “toes” or are made spicifically for sexual gratification.
Suggestive Themes would be more like bikinis, bras, underwear, winking, sexy dances, GW1 had some decent clothes for the skimpy fans…why not bring more into GW2.

for all you parents that are fighting agianst this for your 13 yr olds childs eyes…im sry to tell you but they have already seen women in all their glory and so seeing a girl clothed all the time would actually be a step up for them. as for female 13 yr olds…they shouldnt care as they can look in the mirror. its not like there will be an only sock outfit for the males. i see no problem with a few skimpy eye candies…i dont play humans cause i am one thats not a very big fantasy to me or id just play as myself. I play charr, Asura, and sylvari…plus after 7 years of being a human in gw1 why would i want to be one.

Honestly, I think I’d be happy with more light armor in the style of the Ritualist armor from GW1. “Skimpy”, nicely detailed, fairly equal amount of skin shown for both sexes.

http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Ritualist_Armor

Leo G.4501:

Oh…and you’re going to break down one of my posts too?

Oh… and you’re going to avoid the topic too?

Yes, I break up my quotes. Why? Do you have a quote phobia? Do you stop breathing and keel over when you see someone quote? Might want to get some help for that.

I split a post into small sections to help organize my thoughts as I write, like when you write a long open-ended answer on a test at school (oh, but nowadays it’s easy multiple choice, right?)
I even do that as I read, by highlighting (selecting) each phrase with my mouse, to help me understand what’s being said. I do that all over the internet too, not just on forums
(Like how some people place a ruler/pencil/finger under phrases when they read a book)

Because they get to wear what they want…rather than what men tell them how to dress.
Has any woman in this thread said she wants to dress her female character in skimpy clothes because a man said to her she couldn’t? When? Or are you assuming that’s the case?

And it goes both ways, if the clothes available to you are skimpy, you could say The Man (the game) wants you to wear skimpy clothes. Mad Queen said she wants to wear something non-sexuallized on her scholar, but in Lv 80 armor that’s difficult to find.
(Hey MQM, how about AC armor, though? I just have one issue, ANet seems to think non-revealing clothes need to be really, really chunky and boring. (MQM also addressed this). Which makes the problem (lack of choice) feel worse, because people don’t want to wear hobo clothes so they bitterly resort to revealing clothes as a last choice, which are given more attention to detail and more beautiful designs than non-revealing armors . But Anet should learn that conservative clothes can still look amazing. They need to hire an artist that can do that).

And do you really think all these revealing clothes are made for women? Given the track record in the gaming industry (how old are you anyway?), women in games haven’t been designed for women. They’ve been designed for men. Care to dispute this?
So what makes you think the half-naked clothes are designed for women to enjoy?
A man has no right to tell a woman that she’s wrong for feeling sexualized. If she feels sexualized, she feels sexualized.

And why, if I’m a woman with a male character, why doesn’t the game also give me this choice to “wear what I want” (revealing clothes) too? Why is it female characters only that have to be half naked?

You also didn’t address the argument that a lot of men love to dress up too, as I described on my post.

I already made all these point to you in my other post, as has MQM many times.
Do I have to do all the thinking for you?

According to facts, sweetheart.

A fact means it must apply in all cases. You can’t say all swans are white when there is one black swan. Then it’s not a fact anymore. If a woman feels the armors are degrading to her gender, then it’s no longer a fact that “the armors are OK”.
And you can stick that big fat juicy “sweetheart” up your …

You’re talking about NPCs, not our characters.

The argument from the post you were quoting was indeed about NPCs…or at least included them in the overall portrayal of women in videogames…or are we dismissing examples here?

We’re talking about how we want to dress our characters, aren’t we?

But if you want to spread out to “how all female characters are portraied in all games”, then in my previous post I also wrote some examples of double standards (in Gw2), which you haven’t replied to or even acknowledged. As usual, you avoid the topic, either because you have poor attention span or reading comprehension, or you want to close your eyes and cover your ears and pretend those who take issue with the double standards don’t exist.

Mad Queen has said everything you need to understand. Go over her posts. Before and after you read each post think of this question:

I have read all of MQM’s posts and respect MQM’s opinion and freedom to express said opinion.

And again. You avoid the topic. Here’s the question again:

“Why must female characters be portrayed in a completely sexualized manner, as if they were Victoria’s Secret models or Samba dancers instead of just fighters, and in that case, why is it enough for male characters to be portrayed as just fighters? Why aren’t female characters portrayed as “just fighters” too, as opposed to “fighters with eyecandy on top”?

Until you learn reading comprehension and start addressing the questions posed to you, so we can actually discuss the topic, I won’t be replying to you anymore.

That’s the thing when it comes to revealing clothing.. People get all hyped up, saying it’s sexual and it’s provocative, but really…

It’s because you viewed it as sexual and provocative..
Skin =/= sexual

It just means you don’t like the revealing of other people’s skin and you’re just feel uncomfortable about revealing skin (whether it’s yourself or others), or simply you have no self control but to look at it in a sexual way..

It’s only sexual if you look at it like so..
(same goes if you make everything into a sexual joke.. anything can be made into a sexual joke if you’re creative enough.. xD)

A bikini is not sexual when worn at the pool/beach where you’re going to be swimming or playing on the water. The bikini has a purpose at the beach
Having female police officers wear a bikini as their uniform when the male police officers wear a normal and appropriate uniform for the job, it is sexist.

Or are you going to say it isn’t?

shouldnt you guys be more worried about the objectification of women in real life than a video game?

It’s not up to you to decide what someone feels degraded by. Games are part of our real world too, you know? We, real people, play the game, in our real chairs, our real desks, and our real computers.

You can answer all your questions by remembering that males are the intended audience for these games.

Even if, IF that were true, don’t ya think maybe, maaaaybe if they didn’t portray women as prostitutes, more women would be more inclined to want to play games?
By portraying women like that, it’s like they’re telling women “don’t buy our game, go away, we don’t want you here!”
Whereas someone might love the game, but not be able to buy them because it makes them feel degraded.

And funny enough, I have, and have always had, only male friends, even when I was in primary school. Yet, I know way more women that play games than men, and it’s not casual “cooking mama” games, it’s games “targeted at men” ;-)

Hey Mad Queen by the way, wish you could be my friend!

This argument is going nowhere and is only getting people heated. I do not think anyone is changing anyones mind on what is and isn’t sexist in this market.

At the size of this thread, I doubt ANet will be keeping up with it. Why don’t we all just sign off with a closing statement of what we think in regards to the topic at hand (More Skimpy Armor Please? [Merged]), and leave it at that? 1 post each.

I’ll start:

I would like to have more skimpy armour sets for my characters, but would also like to have a wider variety in armours available for both female and male characters alike.

We all get where you’re coming from, lots of us even agree with you, but there’s nothing ranting on the forums will accomplish.

Wrong.

By posting here, at the very least we raise awareness to those who might have not realized the issue, and hopefully garner more help in our efforts to make the gaming industry not as degrading to women (such as how one might raise awareness for men being victims of domestic violence too), and by posting here we are reaching out to other women who think the same as us, but always dismissed her feelings as “I’m just stupid, it’s my fault” and tries to bury her feelings… always feeling rage and wanting to change the world, but always cowering in a corner because she’s afraid.
You’d be surprised how many private messages I get saying thank you for posting and speaking about this topic, but those women don’t want to speak in public because they don’t want to be “outed” as “that feminist” or getting harassed by pms in the forums or in game.

And please don’t be disrespectful by describing our thoughts as “rambling”. Our posts are valid just like anyone else’s.

Truth hurts. Here’s some more you might not have known, the majority of game designers and developers are heterosexual males. Shhhhh, don’t tell anyone. And we all know what they want to see. bow chicka bow wow

And as a woman who’s been there and struggled through it ever since I was a very, very little girl, I could tell you why that’s true and that it’s not because women don’t want to, but because there are/were barriers in our way, I can send you a link or start a conversation by PM if you are truly interested. Won’t discuss it here since it would be off topic.
But I have a feeling you’re not interested, and just want to spout random things to make yourself feel good about who you are.

A “perfect, equal, world” would be a world where nudity was fully accepted by everyone. And everyone was confident in their own self image.

Yes, but only female nudity, am I right?

I disagree. The world is what you make of it.

Your life is what you make of it, but some of us want to make the world a better place for the next generation of daughters to come, so they can have a better life than we did. Right, Mad queen? ;-)

I would like more armor that shows fur, bioluminesce, and skin for both males and females. Not “near naked” armor but classy, sassy elegant armor that is not cover up everything and tack butt capes on top of it.

Raestloz.7134:

Men wants what men wants. I know, this is incredibly surprising to you, but the more you know.

Now, please. Less killing joys, more worthy discussion

“Yes, my lord. I shall leave the forum now and leave it to the men, we all know men are much smarter than women, and I belong in the kitchen anyway, as do all women. So I’ll go and leave the forum to those who matter, those who are real people, those who the world belongs to. Those who are not insignificant ants in this world, like me and other women.”

“But before I leave, I’ll bow so low that you can see down my cleavage. How do you like it? Hope you like it a lot. Also, on my way out, I’ll run like I’m dancing so my breasts and butt jiggle, for your viewing pleasure. Oh, oops!, is my skirt too short? No, it’s not, in fact it should be shorter, you can’t see enough of my butt and privates! I’m sorry my lord, I’ll fix that right away!”

“Also, I’ll trip and make nice, sensual moaning sounds as I hit the floor. And I’ll open my legs wide as I get up so you can get a nice, good view. And because I fell, now my shirt is ripped open at my breasts, exposing them, and my short skirt is all torn at the front, I hope you enjoy it!”

If you’re going to attempt a sexism rampage, start here: Sexism doesn’t affect and offend just one sex, it hurts both. There are men that are willing to take your side, but they’ll be hesitant to do so if you come off as a sexist for the other side instead, and not equal rights.

Well, they could just care about people in general? Why do you have to stick a label on it?
If I want to make the world a better place and improve things for the elderly, or the disabled, why would I have to come up with random reasons why it also affects me, a young non-disabled person? Why can’t I just help them because I care about them as people?

I don’t need to make it about “equal rights”, I need to make it about “elderly people” and “disabled people”.

lorazcyk.8927:

Jemmi.6058:

This argument is going nowhere and is only getting people heated. I do not think anyone is changing anyones mind on what is and isn’t sexist in this market.

At the size of this thread, I doubt ANet will be keeping up with it. Why don’t we all just sign off with a closing statement of what we think in regards to the topic at hand (More Skimpy Armor Please? [Merged]), and leave it at that? 1 post each.

I’ll start:

I would like to have more skimpy armour sets for my characters, but would also like to have a wider variety in armours available for both female and male characters alike.

We all get where you’re coming from, lots of us even agree with you, but there’s nothing ranting on the forums will accomplish.

Wrong.
And please don’t be disrespectful by describing our thoughts as “rambling”. Our posts are valid just like anyone else’s.

By posting here, at the very least we raise awareness to those who might have not realized the issue, and hopefully garner more help in our efforts to make the gaming industry not as degrading to women (such as how one might raise awareness for men being victims of domestic violence too), and by posting here we are reaching out to other women who think the same as us, but always dismissed her feelings as “I’m just stupid, it’s my fault” and tries to bury her feelings… always feeling rage and wanting to change the world, but always cowering in a corner because she’s afraid.
You’d be surprised how many private messages I get saying thank you for posting and speaking about this topic, but those women don’t want to speak in public because they don’t want to be “outed” as “that feminist”.

Truth hurts. Here’s some more you might not have known, the majority of game designers and developers are heterosexual males. Shhhhh, don’t tell anyone. And we all know what they want to see. bow chicka bow wow

And as a woman who’s been there and struggled through it ever since I was a very, very little girl, I could tell you why that’s true and why it’s not because women don’t want to, but there are/were barriers in their way, I can send you a link or start a conversation by PM if you are truly interested. Won’t discuss it here since it would be off topic.
But I have a feeling you’re not interested, and just want to spout random things.

Siiiigh. OK let’s make this thread useless then. I guess there is no point in having Arena Net hear our thoughts.

I did NOT say that you were rambling. I definitely understand and respect your opinion. I do disagree with parts of it though. My intention with the ending remarks was so that we can each have a say, so that Arena Net could have a good idea of what their playerbase wants, and not just the loud few who post over and over again (myself included on that one). That would give everyone a voice, including you, and would allow you to vocalize your concern about sexism.

Being as that is not what you want, let’s drown it out with more useless arguing that will just go in circles. I’ll start, you can rebuttle back saying the same thing and then I’ll return with a repeat of this post. OK here goes…

I do not think that having sexual clothing is sexist. I think sexism is only when one sex is given higher priority than the other. This can occur with sexual clothing, and in many cases it has. However, the solution is to not remove sexual clothing, but to add sexual clothing equally for both genders. This is a common request in this thread that you are arguing against.

You are clearly placing higher priority on women and are disregarding the opinion of almost all of the males. That is sexist. I am listening to and respecting your opinion, and even fighting for parts of it. You are putting words in my mouth and are mis-representing my point of view, which I am assuming because I am a man. That is sexist as well.

I am 100% in favour of equal opportunity and am against all forms of prejudice. The only way to adequately combat this is to act equally. If one side is receiving the short end of the stick, do not give them higher priority to steer them back, or you will over shoot. Think of it like Lane Changing when driving. You do not turn your wheel sharply to get in the other lane, you look where you want to be and drive as if you are there, and you will naturally hover into the lane. That is what we need to do with sexism. Act and think that both are equal, and they will be treated as such. That is how I act in ordinary life.

Essentially, if you fight as you are, you are only going to alienate males and make them annoyed. The end result will be a further dichotomy between men and women, rather than synergy.

EDIT: In reference to post above.. WTH?? Way to take what Raestloz way out of context. This is exactly what I am talking about.

Regardless of what is appealing to look at, we should be thinking about what is best for everybody. Not just ourselves, not just our friends, but the impact it has on all players.

The fact that it already is considered normal and not strange for women to be half-naked when going into battle, while men are fully covered, proves that people can be influenced by this. Making women look more sexual is one more push in the wrong direction.

While a few of us may be mature enough to realize how bizarre it is and not be negatively affected playing with it, it gives a bad impression to the rest. I think it’s better for gaming society in general to get out of this habit.

Siiiigh. OK let’s make this thread useless then. I guess there is no point in having Arena Net hear our thoughts.

Hold your horses, I want skimpy armor for male characters (and “beast” characters like charr and asura), and I take no issue with skimpy female armors for those who want them (but still respectful, or as respectful as skimpy male armors are).

Essentially, if you fight as you are, you are only going to alienate males and make them annoyed. The end result will be a further dichotomy between men and women, rather than synergy.

I expect people to be honest and say what they mean, and I do the same. So why do I have to walk on eggshells? Why can men in this thread say what they want, but I have to be all nice and write my posts in a way that make men feel good? I say what I mean and mean what I say. No more, no less. Just as I would expect from any other person.
So I don’t see why I need to walk on eggshells, specially when most men are mostly dismissing or attacking what has been super nice and polite conversation by Mad Queen.

Believe me, in my life, being affected by sexism, I won’t be walking on eggshells. You wouldn’t either if it affected your daily life since you were very little. Women who walk on eggshells don’t make the world better or make their situation better. That, I can tell you. I was smart enough to stop walking on eggshells when I was really little. (High five, past me!)

And it’s not just because I’m a woman, there are some issues that affect men that I feel just as strongly about and will speak out about it with just as much fervor, even if it’s against women.

EDIT: In reference to post above.. WTH?? Way to take what Raestloz way out of context. This is exactly what I am talking about.

What he said was super sexist. Why do you beat on me but not him? Hmm? But never mind, it doesn’t surprise me, again, a life time of sexist experiences, etc etc.
By being very graphic, I tried to show to him why I really care about this issue, why I won’t leave, and why his comment was sexist. Because words apparently aren’t doing anything, I had to be graphic.

lorazcyk.8927:

Siiiigh. OK let’s make this thread useless then. I guess there is no point in having Arena Net hear our thoughts.

Hold your horses, I want skimpy armor for male characters (and “beast” characters like charr and asura), and I take no issue with skimpy female armors for those who want them (but still respectful, or as respectful as skimpy male armors are).

Essentially, if you fight as you are, you are only going to alienate males and make them annoyed. The end result will be a further dichotomy between men and women, rather than synergy.

I expect people to be honest and say what they mean, and I do the same. So why do I have to walk on eggshells? Why can men in this thread say what they want, but I have to be all nice and write my posts in a way that make men feel good? I say what I mean and mean what I say. No more, no less. Just as I would expect from any other person.
So I don’t see why I need to walk on eggshells, specially when most men are mostly dismissing or attacking what has been super nice and polite conversation by Mad Queen.

Believe me, in my life, being affected by sexism, I won’t be walking on eggshells. You wouldn’t either if it affected you. Women who walk on eggshells don’t make the world better or make their situation better. That, I can tell you. I was smart enough to stop walking on eggshells when I was really little. (High five, past me!)

And it’s not just because I’m a woman, there are some issues that affect men that I feel just as strongly about and will speak out about it with just as much fervor, even if it’s against women.

EDIT: In reference to post above.. WTH?? Way to take what Raestloz way out of context. This is exactly what I am talking about.

What he said was super sexist. Why do you beat on me but not him? Hmm? But never mind, it doesn’t surprise me, again, a life time of sexist experiences, etc etc.
By being very graphic, I tried to show to him why I really care about this issue, why I won’t leave, and why his comment was sexist. Because words apparently aren’t doing anything, I had to be graphic.

OK cool, we are on the same page. Plus skimpy armors for all!

As for the egg-shells… I do not mean you should walk on egg shells, voice your opinion, but do so in a constructive way. The quoted story a couple posts above about men being better than women and women being in the kitchen etc is just offensive to men, as that is not at all what we are trying to say. It basically makes me feel like you cannot take anything I say seriously. I hope you can empathize with that situation?

I do not think his post was sexist. He stated that men want what men want. That’s true. You can’t really argue with that? The second part is offensive, but he did not say that he was being offensive because you were a women. That said, I disagree with his tactic of being offensive as well.

The quoted story a couple posts above about men being better than women and women being in the kitchen etc is just offensive to men

I wrote that very graphic example for Raestloz and Raestloz only, not all men, so he could see how his words were really sexist, because I don’t think he understands he’s being sexist. He thinks he’s being “reasonable” when he said those things.
So I have to be unreasonable to show him very clearly why what he said is unreasonable (if that makes sense). Reasonable talk won’t get the point across to him and people like him. Been there, done that.

I’m glad YOU don’t think his post was offensive, however, that doesn’t change the fact that I found it offensive and degrading. In his posts, you can tell he doesn’t care or believe that this issues affects women, and if it does, we should shut up on the forum (where the “men” are), and come back when we get some big guns.

I’ll be a “nice girl” and explain it in a easier to understand form. Though it’s completely unnecessary as the person I was addressing it to doesn’t care, as far as I can tell. So I’m doing it for you, not for him.

And to achieve that, ranting about it in a thread asking for developers to add more revealing outfit is not the first step.
Go to facebook or something, or to UN’s division for women’s stuff.

So as a woman, I can’t speak like a normal person and tell someone when what they do offends me. I need to go to some special authority as if I were requesting permission. And I still shouldn’t talk about it, I should let the big guns do the work for me and don’t speak about the issue again.

Ask them to nag developers about it

Also, as a woman, I’m not strong enough to do my own work, I need to seek help and have others do it for me.

When a person gives feedback saying that they want more gear grinding in this game, they don’t need to seek out the division of “of grinding’s stuff” in a big organization to tell the game devs about it. They just say it.

ask women to start majoring in art, especially 3D modelling, 2d drawing, and story writing then have them apply for work in major game studios; get more women to play video games, maybe THEN, something will happen.

They are already? And they too, struggle, as they are fighting male developers, male sponsors, and a men’s world.
A lot of men are telling me and mad queen that we have to speak in a way that’s relevant (?) to men, so why can’t men make games that are also relevant to women? Unless they live under a rock, they know the world is made of women too. Though I wonder if they make women in games that way because in the real world they see women that way: that they are there to look pretty and serve men. If so, that’s very sad.

Men wants what men wants. I know, this is incredibly surprising to you, but the more you know.

And women want what women want. So in other words, "people want what people want’. Women are people too. I know this is incredibly surprising to you, but the more you know.

Now, please. Less killing joys, more worthy discussion

Yes, because this discussion isn’t it worth anything to women affected by the issue. Hahaha, silly women! They think they’re people!

The quoted story a couple posts above about men being better than women and women being in the kitchen etc is just offensive to men

Why do you think I believe men think that? It was a short graphic story, the character there believes it, not me. I don’t think Raeslot believes that, atleast I hope he doesn’t, but I hope my short story will shock him into realizing what he said is just as bad as “if you want men to stop telling women to stay in the kitchen, don’t talk about it, go and ask UN women’s division so they can do something about it, until then, we don’t care, and we’ll keep ‘being men’ because that’s ‘how men are’ and that’s ‘what men want’.”

(Funny enough, his post is also degrading to men, as if men are so stupid they can’t make a game that’s good for all people of any age, gender, race, etc, but only for men. I believe lots of men are better than that, and those who aren’t could be, if they 1- were aware of the issue instead of dismissing it as many have 2- actually realized that it’s something that needs to be changed if you want to sell to a bigger audience 3- kept it in mind when they work in the game )

When I cook a meal for guests, I try to make it so it’s good for every person there. For example, I like really spicy food and can’t eat gluten, but when I have guests I tone down on the spiciness and I serve bread (etc, depending on the other guests). I’m not going to tell them “well, screw you! I like spicy food and can’t eat gluten!”

Pls. pls. pls do not speak for all women… seriously… most of the female gamers I’ve known, and myself included. Like that kind of armor, and I really really really want something that shows the bioluminence on my sylvari ranger, other than the named set.

Btw. (again) everyone is (still) agreeing on more options all in all. That is more sets that show some skin, for both males and females… not only females + more sets that does not show any or only little skin, but still stylish, realistic or whatnot also for both males and females… not just males.

Anyone gonna disagree with that? Or is it still a problem even though we are asking for the same for the male characters? If so why?

Perhaps there are issues, I wont deny that there are a certain representation of women in the gaming world. Not one that is bothering me… it seems kinda natural to me.
No I do not dress like that in real life, but I don’t go around killing monsters and gather, mine and stuff in real life… so yeah.
Either way the issues are minor in GW2 and with what we are asking (more of all kinds of armor skimpy and non skimpy for all, male and female) I don’t see the problem, some have with it.

lorazcyk.8927:

The quoted story a couple posts above about men being better than women and women being in the kitchen etc is just offensive to men

I wrote that very graphic example for Raestloz and Raestloz only, not all men, so he could see how his words were really sexist, because I don’t think he understands he’s being sexist. He thinks he’s being “reasonable” when he said those things.
So I have to be unreasonable to show him very clearly why what he said is unreasonable (if that makes sense).

I’m glad YOU don’t think his post was offensive, however, that doesn’t change the fact that I found it offensive and degrading.

I did find it offensive, I said as much. It just wasn’t sexist. He did not talk condescendingly because you were a women, he just talked condescendingly. I disagree with that too, but it wasn’t sexist.

That is unless you are talking about men want what men want? I guess that is the part what you bolded, but I really do not see how the could be considered offensive. Women want what women want too. Dogs also want what dogs want and chickens want what chickens want.

I understand that is why you posted what you did, that you were trying to imitate his unreasonable tone. However, my point is that matching unreasonable posts with unreasonable posts is not constructive. It merely makes both parties angry. If you want to get through you have to remain reasonable and constructive so the conversation steers that way.

Zeefa.3915:

Pls. pls. pls do not speak for all women..

No one is. No one is speaking for all women, and no one is speaking for all men.

Btw. (again) everyone is (still) agreeing on more options all in all.
(. . .) Anyone gonna disagree with that?
(. . .) I wont deny that there are a certain representation of women in the gaming world.

Even those of us who raising concerns still agree that more options, skimpy or not, would be nice. (AFAIK)
Like you, I believe it should be for everyone, not just humanoid females.

I did find it offensive, I said as much. It just wasn’t sexist. He did not talk condescendingly because you were a women, he just talked condescendingly. I disagree with that too, but it wasn’t sexist.

I already explained how it was both offensive and sexist to me. It’s fine if you don’t agree. But to me, it was. To be a “nice girl” I even explained to you why.

That is unless you are talking about men want what men want? I guess that is the part what you bolded, but I really do not see how the could be considered offensive. Women want what women want too. Dogs also want what dogs want and chickens want what chickens want.

Obviously?
So if I said “alright my dear chickens, I love your tasty eggs. But you rock buffington chicken lay the best eggs. I’m going to give you a nice comfy roost since you’re such a good chicken! And you, new hampshire red, your eggs are not so good so you can go sleep in a corner somewhere.” Wouldn’t that be offensive to chickens?

(I LOL, but since you wanted to go that way…)

Or are you saying that men and women are different species like dogs and chickens, and games are only made for one species, because one has paws and one has claws, so they need the game to be different?

I understand that is why you posted what you did, that you were trying to imitate his unreasonable tone. However, my point is that matching unreasonable posts with unreasonable posts is not constructive. It merely makes both parties angry. If you want to get through you have to remain reasonable and constructive so the conversation steers that way.

Been there, done that, as I said?!
I didn’t want to have a conversation with Raeslot, I wanted to say that and that only.

And why do you say all those things to me, but not to him?

I already told you that I see what you mean, and I already told you that I won’t do it and why. And I already did “reply to Raestol’s post nicely instead of snarky” as you asked. What more do you want? Leave me alone already? How about you go harass Raestol now?

lorazcyk.8927:

Hey Mad Queen by the way, wish you could be my friend!

Darling, I’m an evil Queen. I’m everyone’s greatest enemy. :P

lorazcyk.8927:

I disagree. The world is what you make of it.

Your life is what you make of it, but some of us want to make the world a better place for the next generation of daughters to come next, so they can have a better life than we did. Right, Mad queen? ;-)

Well the thing is, I’ve been receiving several private messages from female gamers as well, thanking me for addressing the issue, and not backing down. So that kind of illustrates that perhaps a lot of ladies share my opinion, but feel the hostility they would receive is kind of like jumping into a nest of angry wasps. But I’m not here just to take the side of an unpopular opinion of course. I’m honestly surprised that so many people were so quick to instantly brand me a feminist for addressing blatant sexism in a video game. I think more male gamers should stand up for it as well. Don’t we want everyone to enjoy these games? And don’t we want well written female characters in our games?

Its like going to the movies. If you keep going to stupid Michael Bay movies, you’re not going to inspire any change in Hollywood. But much like with movies, you can let the game developers know that if they want your money, they need to make mature games. And when I say mature games, I don’t mean games with explicit mature content (that’s pretty easy, right Mortal Kombat?), but games that treat both genders in a mature way.

I honestly think that GW2 is heading in the right direction with the way they’ve written the Charr. Women are equal in Charr society.

lorazcyk.8927:

I did find it offensive, I said as much. It just wasn’t sexist. He did not talk condescendingly because you were a women, he just talked condescendingly. I disagree with that too, but it wasn’t sexist.

I already explained how it was both offensive and sexist to me. It’s fine if you don’t agree. But to me, it was. To be a “nice girl” I even explained to you why.

I am sorry I got confused with so much text going by. I see your explanation now. I do see where he was saying the thing that could be considered sexist, about disregarding your view point here and going to FB etc. That wasn’t the part you originally quoted though.

That is unless you are talking about men want what men want? I guess that is the part what you bolded, but I really do not see how the could be considered offensive. Women want what women want too. Dogs also want what dogs want and chickens want what chickens want.
Obviously?
So if I said “alright my dear chickens, I love your tasty eggs. But you rock buffington chicken lay the best eggs. I’m going to give you a nice comfy roost since you’re such a good chicken! And you, new hampshire red, your eggs are not so good so you can go sleep in a corner somewhere.” Wouldn’t that be offensive to chickens?

(I LOL, but since you wanted to go that way…)

Or are you saying that men and women are different species like dogs and chickens, and games are only made for one species, because one has paws and one has claws, so they need the game to be different?

In fact all I was saying is that saying x want what x wants is an obvious statement. No where in the men want what men want did they say that someone should go sleep in a corner? You are putting words into peoples mouths based on your own bias.

And why do you say all those things to me, but not to him?

I am not saying anything to him for two simple reasons. 1. If someone posts a flaming post, I usually choose to disregard it. 2. He did not post anything that I wanted to debate about.

I already told you that I see what you mean, and I already told you that I won’t do it and why. And I already did “reply to Raestol’s post nicely instead of snarky” as you asked. What more do you want? Leave me alone already? How about you go harass Raestol now?

I am merely debating with you. I agree with many of your points and respect your opinion. I am sorry that you feel I am harassing you, that wasn’t my intention. My tone may have been a bit off, because I was trying to treat everyone fairly and your first word back at my post was “Wrong!” as if my voice didn’t matter. That set me off on the wrong foot.

I did find it offensive, I said as much. It just wasn’t sexist. He did not talk condescendingly because you were a women, he just talked condescendingly. I disagree with that too, but it wasn’t sexist.

Well, let’s just say what he condescendingly said about women was sexist and degrading to me as a woman?! LOL, I don’t see the difference. I try to avoid writing “LOL” in forums but your posts really make me open my eyes wide as I think “Whut?!”, pause for a couple seconds, then literally Laugh Out Loud like a maniac.

I am sorry I got confused with so much text going by. I see your explanation now. I do see where he was saying the thing that could be considered sexist, about disregarding your view point here and going to FB etc. That wasn’t the part you originally quoted though.

I quoted the part that summarized the opinion he expressed on the whole post, so to me it was as if quoting the whole post.
(quoting the whole thing makes the page really long and I hate that. wish other people would stop quoting walls of text but it’s up to them)

In fact all I was saying is that saying x want what x wants is an obvious statement. No where in the men want what men want did they say that someone should go sleep in a corner? You are putting words into peoples mouths based on your own bias.

Ofcourse it’s an… obvious… statement. I don’t see why it wouldn’t be obvious. I think everyone in the world knows it’s obvious x wants x unless they’re severally mentally incapacitated.
Sleep in a corner? Putting words in people’s mouth? Sigh. Looks like it’s you putting words in my mouth.
A little reading comprehension: I said that about chickens, not humans, since you brought it up. The “sleep in a corner” for humans in the gaming industry is “men are people, women are sexy objects”, which is what we’ve been talking about in this thread for many, many pages now.

I am not saying anything to him for two simple reasons. 1. If someone posts a flaming post, I usually choose to disregard it. 2. He did not post anything that I wanted to debate about.

1) But to you my post was also flaming, and 2), if you wanted to speak about how I write replies, not about what I actually said, why not send a private message (I would welcome it) instead of cluttering up the thread… but nevermind, I’m doing it now I guess, I mean, if I don’t reply to it now it’s as if I admit I was “bad”, which I don’t believe I was.

I am sorry that you feel I am harassing you

You are, you repeatedly insinuate I shouldn’t feel degraded about Raeslot’s post because you aren’t.

My tone may have been a bit off, because I was trying to treat everyone fairly and your first word back at my post was “Wrong!” as if my voice didn’t matter. That set me off on the wrong foot.

As if your voice doesn’t matter? Uh? Where did that come from? Now you’re speaking about another post, not about my post replying to Raeslot’s post.
It’s quite obviously “Wrong” as in “you are incorrect that speaking on this forum is not worth it”, as I clearly described on that post right after the word “Wrong”. So I clearly did take your voice into account, if I hadn’t, I wouldn’t have taken the time to describe why I think you were incorrect.

Just a little bit of reading comprehension.

I am merely debating with you.

No you’re not, you’re not debating about the topic in this thread, you’re giving me a lecture about how I wrote my post and why I shouldn’t feel degraded about what he said.

lorazcyk.8927:

Oh… and you’re going to avoid the topic too?

Yes, I break up my quotes. Why? Do you have a quote phobia? Do you stop breathing and keel over when you see someone quote? Might want to get some help for that.

I split a post into small sections to help organize my thoughts as I write, like when you write a long open-ended answer on a test at school (oh, but nowadays it’s easy multiple choice, right?)
I even do that as I read, by highlighting (selecting) each phrase with my mouse, to help me understand what’s being said. I do that all over the internet too, not just on forums
(Like how some people place a ruler/pencil/finger under phrases when they read a book)

Actually, I was talking about how you want to break down one of my posts that was pages and pages back and talking about a different thing than what you’re quoting it for. I have no problem (anymore) that you’re going to break my post down into little itty bitty chunks as that’s sort of in the past now…it’s like arguing something people were trying to convey months ago but since it’s cleared up, there’s no point in re-arguing about it.

Mad Queen said she wants to wear something non-sexuallized on her scholar, but in Lv 80 armor that’s difficult to find.

Balls. Not true. Plenty of options. Here’s one option that I think looks pretty nifty on Human females…it doesn’t really look very good on Asura though…like they’re wearing a neckbrace or something….

http://www.gw2armor.com/human/female/named/light/front.jpg

And do you really think all these revealing clothes are made for women? Given the track record in the gaming industry (how old are you anyway?), women in games haven’t been designed for women. They’ve been designed for men. Care to dispute this?
So what makes you think the half-naked clothes are designed for women to enjoy?
A man has no right to tell a woman that she’s wrong for feeling sexualized. If she feels sexualized, she feels sexualized.

You can feel all you want. When everything has to be tiptoeing around sensitivities and possible feelings, you get a sterile and stagnate product. While I can understand being careful not to offend, that’s far and away from being politically correct imbecile prudes that make a product no one cares about.

And why, if I’m a woman with a male character, why doesn’t the game also give me this choice to “wear what I want” (revealing clothes) too? Why is it female characters only that have to be half naked?

You also didn’t address the argument that a lot of men love to dress up too, as I described on my post.

You don’t read do you? Here’s one of my posts you failed to read or acknowledge:

Leo G.4501:

Heck, if you read my first post in this thread, I’m asking for more skimpy armor for MALES. That you’d bring up side-boob, light armor and such when people are asking for options WHERE THERE’S LITTLE OPTION AVAILABLE just because you’ve got some feminist opinion on it…yeah, don’t even need to bother.

Add more skimpy medium armor for both genders so my ranger has more options there.
Add more skimpy heavy armor for both genders.
Add more skimpy armor for males in general.

We’re talking about how we want to dress our characters, aren’t we?

What we’ve been talking about has SHIFTED over ELEVEN PAGES. What was being talked about in the post you quoted was the portrayal of women in video games. That isn’t isolated to player character females, but ALL females, PC or NPC.

But if you want to spread out to “how all female characters are portraied in all games”, then in my previous post I also wrote some examples of double standards (in Gw2), which you haven’t replied to or even acknowledged.

You haven’t wrote any double standards regarding GW2 in any posts targeted at what I wrote which demonstrated the portrayal of women in GW2. No one has disputed that the women in GW2 are somehow held back by the image of being sexual objects…even MQM has admitted that women are in a decent place in this game. Could it be better? Yeah, it always can, but it ain’t no super double standard that would require you to dig up old debates that have been settled and have been moved past while completely not understanding the context of what those debates were even about.

@Mad Queen

Yup, I get a lot of PMs thanking me or giving me thumbs up when I’m the sole “Supposedly Feminist” defender in threads like these :-)

I was actually going to PM you to thank you for posting (as I didn’t feel like being outed as “that PMSing feminist” for the millionth time), but I felt bad about only sending a PM as I know how bad it is to feel like you’re the only person talking about it in a thread full of sexist comments.

The thing about using money to let developers know we want fairness is that we would be practically left with no games to play and they wouldn’t know why we didn’t buy their game. Specially as they’re not going to change their game for “that weird feminist woman”, since not many women are willing to talk about it openly it seems like it’s just one or two people.

I wonder if the reason they won’t make sexy males is because 1) they have to appeal to the beefy Conan stereotype that (afaik) men dream of being like, instead of what is actually sexy to women (though I guess some women might like beefy Conan guys), and 2) (afaik) men can’t stand seeing another man in a “adult movies” as they’re better looking than he is, plus he wants to think that woman/women are his only.
So that having male characters be plain-looking is much easier for them to bear? Just wondering because it’s the same deal in American TV (other countries are much better about it)

lorazcyk.8927:

I wonder if the reason they won’t make sexy males is because 1) they have to appeal to the beefy Conan stereotype that (afaik) men dream of being like, instead of what is actually sexy to women (though I guess some women might like beefy Conan guys), and 2) (afaik) men can’t stand seeing another man in a “adult movies” as they’re better looking than he is, plus he wants to think that woman/women are his only.
So that having male characters be plain-looking is much easier for them to bear? Just wondering because it’s the same deal in American TV (other countries are much better about it)

This is very insightful in how women perceive men and their masculine mentalities. I don’t think men are all that complex either (me being one) but I don’t think men are as simple as you seem to think.

GuardianOMS.8067:

You can answer all your questions by remembering that males are the intended audience for these games.

What if I told you that not all boys are into oversexualized outfits? You’re putting all males in the same bucket. Not all men act like drooling caveman. My boyfriend prefers dignified outfits over sexy ones, so does my brother. Shocking i know. Inb4 labels.

Actually, I was talking about how you want to break down one of my posts that was pages and pages back and talking about a different thing than what you’re quoting it for.

Because I wanted to add something to it and it was on topic (IIRC)
If you didn’t want to reply, you didn’t/don’t have to.

http://www.gw2armor.com/human/female/named/light/front.jpg

Except for the second part of my quote you didn’t include that said "armors that are not “sexy” are chunky and/or very plain looking.
Wanting “not-sexualitzed” armors doesn’t mean armors can’t be tank tops or t-shirts or elbow-shirts, knee shorts or skirts, capris, skin-revealing boots and sandals (such as tied with ribbon), yet how many of the non-sexualized armors cover you head to toe?
Just because we don’t want to dress like a stripper it doesn’t mean we want to dress like a nun either. And that’s the point I was making, clothes can be non-sexualized and still have skin exposed, still be beautiful, still have a pretty design stamped on it or pretty borders like lace or silk, for example.

Which was pretty much what Mad Queen was saying IIRC, with my twist on it.

When everything has to be tiptoeing around sensitivities and possible feelings, you get a sterile and stagnate product.
While I can understand being careful not to offend, that’s far and away from being politically correct imbecile prudes that make a product no one cares about.

Haha, this only applies to male armor, apparently I will add this to my “double standards” post (the one you didn’t read, apparently)

You don’t read do you? Here’s one of my posts you failed to read or acknowledge:

I read that post, and I know you said that. I wasn’t asking you, it was a rhetorical question to the points I had raised prior to it. (Such as: “the sky is so boring, why can’t it be colored like the rainbow?”)

What was being talked about in the post you quoted was the portrayal of women in video games. That isn’t isolated to player character females, but ALL females, PC or NPC.

But the reason the person has talked about is because s/he is trying to make her point about character armor in Gw2, and why that matters so much to him or her.
It means that the person replying needs to read and try to understand what’s s/he said, and then take it into account when replying about character armors, not go talk about penguin clowns swimming in outer-space black holes.

You haven’t wrote any double standards regarding GW2 in any posts targeted at what I wrote which demonstrated the portrayal of women in GW2. No one has disputed that the women in GW2 are somehow held back by the image of being sexual objects…even MQM has admitted that women are in a decent place in this game. Could it be better? Yeah, it always can, but it ain’t no super double standard that would require you to dig up old debates that have been settled and have been moved past while completely not understanding the context of what those debates were even about.

Ummm… yes I did? Not just in this post but others too.

If you weren’t so keen about going offtopic you would have noticed it

Do read the whole list if you’d like to be better educated about the topic, but noteworthy, this part was directly addressed to you and you didn’t reply to it:

some women LIKE to show skin, strong women that are proud of their body and don’t care about the stereotypes of society.

So if a man doesn’t show skin, it means he’s not a strong man, and it means he’s not proud of his body, and that he does care about stereotypes?
See what I mean? Very sexist of you.