Guild Wars 2

So far in every dungeon I’ve run the strategy is the same. Everyone follows the one guy who knows the map, we find a little corner then stand on top if each other and spam all our skills while standing there.

Then you run past all the mobs and find another corner to stack up in and repeat…

It turns dungeons into a mindless and pointless affair. Most of the dungeon’s contents are never seen or experienced by players and player skill is not rewarded as there is no skill involved in standing still on top of everyone else and just pressing the 1-9 keys.

There are a few simple ways to prevent this game breaking phenomenon.

1. Have the enemies dodge out of AoE circles and not blindly walk back into them.
2. Turn on collision for player characters so they can’t stand in the exact same spot as another character.
3. Place doors in the dungeons that require keys to open. The keys are dropped by random mobs in the dungeon. This way encounters can’t always be bypassed and players actually will have to play the dungeon and fight some monsters in order to progress further.
4. Have the monsters drop better loot progressively. The more enemies you kill, the better the quality of loot becomes. By the end of the dungeon if you fight all the mobs there is a chance of exotic drops, but if you bypass all the mobs, the loot will be green quality at best.

I was already missing those threads.

1. I recall hearing that in the beta, enemies would move out of AoE circles, but they took it out because it basically made AoE useless.
2. I’ve said it before, I’ll say it again: people would start using bodyblocking as a griefing method. It’s inevitable.
3. This is basically telling speedrunners to go kitten themselves, pretty obvious how and why.
4. Now this I can agree with. Incentivisation is, compared to coercion, a more “peaceful” approach, for lack of a better word. Sure, some people will complain about it, but at least they won’t have any sound logical basis for their complaints for the most part.

B B B Bingo!!! phyw edition!

Don’t like stacking?
Than don’t do it.
Put up your own LFG indicating NO stack, full clear, etc.

I’ve done no skipping/stacking runs before. They take FOREVER. Even when everyone knows the path and the major encounters.

Its the meta way to run dungeons, not because Anet said to do it, but because players discovered its far more effecient to do it that way instead of killing everything. Why remove something the players came up with because it doesn’t fit into how you like to play?

Oh look, an “I don’t like it so don’t let others play this way” thread.

General considerations re: stacking

1) In multiple cases stacking on top of each other (or walling for that matter) is no longer optimal, people do it because ‘its how we always did it’. Look at Alpha – most people still stack on it even in p1 and 3 where cone AE would only hit one person if Alpha was surrounded instead of being directly stacked.
2) Stacking allows pulling groups of monsters into a tight bunch for easier cleaves. Unless monsters are rooted in place or hit so hard/fast that multiple mobs are guaranteed to wipe the party, this isn’t something you can get rid of easily.
3) ANet is no longer working on dungeons (to the best of my knowledge) so nothing short of exploits will likely be fixed

More specific considerations re: constructive suggestions
1) AI is an issue across the board. Having monsters dodge from AE would be nifty, but it is likely going to cause more issues than solve
2) Collision eats resources. This will require a lot more data to be processed (to see if the positions overlap), which is taxing. Furthermore this can be used for griefing and/or exploiting.
3) Then there will be a simple calculation – is the clearing of the dungeon worth the final reward? Yes – people will speed clear, and nothing will change. No – you lose about 50% (if not more) dungeon population, and get a fallout on boards.
4) Once again, this will simply have people ask whether complete clearing of trash is worth it on reward per unit time basis. If no, people will keep speed running. If yes, people will stack pull almost all trash and AE it down.

Bottom line – Does stacking and skipping NEED a fix? If so, is it worth risking applying a fix that might break more things that it will fix in a game mode support for which has been largely discontinued? I don’t believe ANet cares enough about dungeons to do something like this.

This is a much higher quality post than most anti-stacking threads. Decent suggestions for the most part. Forgive the folks who jump down your throat for making the suggestion — we’re not used to people framing things constructively and tend to react rather nastily when these topics crop up.

You’re wasting your time, though, OP. People have been asking for this for three years (usually with far more spelling and grammar errors, not to mention the raging tone and complete lack of thought going into their suggestions…). ArenaNet has said nothing and done nothing, so I wouldn’t expect anything to change. After all, dungeon development is a thing of the past for ArenaNet. They won’t be touching these dungeons again.

I like suggestion 4 though. It’d be a pretty nice solution that we could discuss. The discussion would be completely in vain, ofc, but I don’t think we’ve really weighed the pros and cons of such an approach on here before.

lol, good luck finding a group that actually wants to play through a dungeon instead of speed running it… ZZzzzZzZ snore…

Yeah, obviously it’s more efficient to bypass the whole dungeon instead of actually playing it. Seeing as I personally know dozens of friends who simply won’t play dungeons, and many more who quit playing the game altogether because of the current Meta when it comes to playing group content, I can tell you it seriously hurts the game. For every one player who is willing to do a dozen stacking runs, there’s three players who refuse to even enter the dungeon because it’s all about stacking and running then leaving anybody who dies behind. Where’s the teamwork and group play enjoyment there? It’s basically a every man for himself free for all run until you stack then bypass more mobs and leave behind anyone who either isn’t trained for run survival or doesn’t have the best gear available.

GW2 has lost many many players due to this unhealthy play style. Dungeons are supposed to be a cooperative group experience, but the way they are played now is anything but

I started this thread because I have been trying to bring back players for HoT. However, many have simply refused because they find the game to lack enjoyability, or are simply frustrated by how players actually play the game. I was hoping for some fixes to encourage players to stick together and support each other as they go through a dungeon and enjoy its content and challenge.

Just Saturday evening I managed to convince a friend to come back and do twilight arbor. Then less than a third of the way into the dungeon, he died and the rest of the group after mocking him for not knowing how to run the dungeon, then proceeded to vote to kick him for dying. This is not an isolated incident. At least one out of four dungeon runs I have been on have ended this way with people getting booted or rage quitting instead of having the group come together and try to go back and revive the dead player.

This is basically the opposite of what most players who are looking for a multiplayer game want. The purpose of a group is to support each other, however the stacking and running meta actually punishes anyone who wants a multiplayer experience.

ANet abandoned dungeons a long time ago. Their focus is all about Open World PvE (with sPvP trailing far away second).

Derenek.8931:

lol, good luck finding a group that actually wants to play through a dungeon instead of speed running it… ZZzzzZzZ snore…

Yeah, obviously it’s more efficient to bypass the whole dungeon instead of actually playing it. Seeing as I personally know dozens of friends who simply won’t play dungeons, and many more who quit playing the game altogether because of the current Meta when it comes to playing group content, I can tell you it seriously hurts the game. For every one player who is willing to do a dozen stacking runs, there’s three players who refuse to even enter the dungeon because it’s all about stacking and running then leaving anybody who dies behind. Where’s the teamwork and group play enjoyment there? It’s basically a every man for himself free for all run until you stack then bypass more mobs and leave behind anyone who either isn’t trained for run survival or doesn’t have the best gear available.

GW2 has lost many many players due to this unhealthy play style. Dungeons are supposed to be a cooperative group experience, but the way they are played now is anything but

Maybe you and these dozens of friends could play together? No one is forcing you to join our groups and play our way. So why do you insist on having the game changed so we have to play your way? Not that I doubt you know people, but a meta is created and maintained by the majority. It isn’t a meta unless it is accepted by the majority.

Make your own group? It works… really it does.

Most speedrunning groups don’t actually stack anymore, it just takes pugs several months to catch on, instead they kill bosses on the spot.

Anyone who full clears Arah p4 should get a legendary, should be an achievement called “Are you having fun now?”

@OP I am going to assume you do not run dungeons often otherwise you would understand why there is stacking.

NeoVaris.4806:

Most speedrunning groups don’t actually stack anymore, it just takes pugs several months to catch on, instead they kill bosses on the spot.

Basically this. Before fiery great sword was nerfed the meta was, stack in a corner and rush the boss to death. Now we just fight the boss where it spawns, freeze with Ice Bow then burst it down.

(What is the difference kill the boss in the open or in a corner? If you are only pressing 1 and not dying (while stacked), you are being carried by someone else…)

Well I do agree that dungeons at the moment are some what mindless mainly due to the insane burst damage meta.

[i]Maybe you and these dozens of friends could play together? No one is forcing you to join our groups and play our way. So why do you insist on having the game changed so we have to play your way? Not that I doubt you know people, but a meta is created and maintained by the majority. It isn’t a meta unless it is accepted by the majority.

Make your own group? It works… really it does. [\i]

I take it you are one of the types who would vote to kick a player for not being able to keep up with your elite dungeon running knowledge… There’s no reason for hostility. The truth if the matter is that putting up a LFG for a group that actually wants to play the game doesn’t work. So I can already guess your response.

“Well then, you and your friends shouldn’t play dungeons. They are perfectly fine the way they are.”

Of course, they clearly aren’t, since the majority of the people who came into the game with me no longer play. (For the aforementioned reasons) Even with a couple dozen friends, getting more than two or three online simultaneously isn’t easy. Then we have to pick up a couple extra strangers, and the same problem pops up.

I am. It going to back down from wanting some changes to the dungeons to encourage team play and accessibility to players who are more casual and not as expert as you might be.

@Derenek I feel like you missed a point along the way.

There are two types of players at the moment. (Stay with me regarding this crude example)

1. Someone who hasn’t run explorable paths 100’s of times.
2. Someone who has run explorable paths 100’s of times.

Most of us here have already experienced the “role playing” portion of completing dungeons and their novelty has worn off and we moved on to the next content to consume. Turns out, there isn’t much more content to complete unfortunately. So as we continue to run explorable paths more and more we refine our approach to completing the content which involves shortcuts and optimizations.

It is in this optimization, that a higher level of team play is achieved through group synergy and maximizing total group dps. The only advice I can offer is try to find like minded people through a guild or the lfg tool. If that doesn’t work, then I don’t know what to tell you other than you probably aren’t looking hard enough.

Gyler.8150:

Anyone who full clears Arah p4 should get a legendary, should be an achievement called “Are you having fun now?”

try doing the cannon event after simin, it’s hella fun.

did it once, probably wouldn’t do it again lol.

@tree I understand where you’re coming from. I also have run the dungeons many many many times. I don’t run them anymore for loot as I got all ascended gear. Now I mainly run them out of boredom or to try and help my newer friends or more casual players. Or get in on PUGs. So I experience a lot of their frustration and can seriously empathize. The design of the dungeons combined with the play style of more experienced players seriously turns those newer players away from the game. Those of us with elite gear and that have run the dungeon hundreds of times really should be the first to ask for redesign to assist newer players. We don’t need to run them anymore for gear and loot. So to grief people or resist any changes is just pointless and is a matter of mental inertia or laziness. Why should newer players and casual players have to adjust to our play style when we’ve done the dungeon so many times we could do it in our sleep? It’s the elite players who should use their advanced gear and experience to adapt to the weaker players. You know the line from Spider-Man, “with great power comes great responsibility.” But seriously, I dare you to go to the dungeon LFG menu and find a group that isn’t asking for lvl 80’s or full zerker gear. Out of all of then less than 10% will be open to newer toons

I guarantee you I could boot the game up right now and there would be a couple of lfgs which don’t have those requirements.

oh what a surprise, over half of the lfgs are simply specifying path numbers, a player specifying they are new to the path or “anyone welcome”.

so yeah, cool story bro, feel free to carry on lying about what you see on the LFG.

So you would like us to clear most of the dungeon ( for the better loot )
Yet no stacking at all against any enemy?

Derenek.8931:

So far in every dungeon I’ve run the strategy is the same. Everyone follows the one guy who knows the map, we find a little corner then stand on top if each other and spam all our skills while standing there.

It turns dungeons into a mindless and pointless affair. Most of the dungeon’s contents are never seen or experienced by players and player skill is not rewarded as there is no skill involved in standing still on top of everyone else and just pressing the 1-9 keys.

You are 100% right. There is no skill involved when you are being carried through everything.

TheRandomGuy.7246:

Derenek.8931:

So far in every dungeon I’ve run the strategy is the same. Everyone follows the one guy who knows the map, we find a little corner then stand on top if each other and spam all our skills while standing there.

It turns dungeons into a mindless and pointless affair. Most of the dungeon’s contents are never seen or experienced by players and player skill is not rewarded as there is no skill involved in standing still on top of everyone else and just pressing the 1-9 keys.

You are 100% right. There is no skill involved when you are being carried through everything.

Conjure Frost Bow is the number one carry we need, but not the one we deserve.

What I’d like is for dungeons to run like other RPG’s. Where the group moves forward together while supporting each other. Then each player has a chance to use their individual charzcter’s skills to progress through the dungeon together as a team. Also to make use of the excellent action mechanics of the game. Dodge evasions, avoiding AoE, calling targets, reviving fallen team members… You know, actual group multiplayer tactics.

Right now, the incentives to actually do that are missing. To do it would be slow, but the treasure rewards aren’t in line with actually playing the game, so most of the dungeon content is rapidly bypassed. So better loot rewards would be a good incentive. Stacking in a corner basically takes a lot of what’s great about GW2’s combat system and throws it out the window. Movement, dodging, group support, all these things aren’t used because you are standing on top of each other just using combined damage in a single location to kill enemies. So if stacking was prevented it would force players to actually move around and play the game. Also if there was something in place to keep the groups together it would keep players from just leaving newer players behind. Which actually happens quite often.

lol @maha there’s no reason to be hostile. It actually does happen that newer players are kicked from groups or shunned after the dungeon starts for not knowing exactly what to do in order to finish dungeons ASAP. Since most of my friends are newer or casual players, I see it happen to them a lot. It truly frustrates me.

I want the game to be welcoming to casual players and encourage team play.

I wonder, if you activate forced collision (melee assist) can you whirlwind into a wall of allies and not go through them? (or enemies). Would FGS work if so? Funny how ideas come out of nowhere!

EcoRI.9273:

TheRandomGuy.7246:

Derenek.8931:

So far in every dungeon I’ve run the strategy is the same. Everyone follows the one guy who knows the map, we find a little corner then stand on top if each other and spam all our skills while standing there.

It turns dungeons into a mindless and pointless affair. Most of the dungeon’s contents are never seen or experienced by players and player skill is not rewarded as there is no skill involved in standing still on top of everyone else and just pressing the 1-9 keys.

You are 100% right. There is no skill involved when you are being carried through everything.

Conjure Frost Bow is the number one carry we need, but not the one we deserve.

https://youtu.be/oL7PSlUuWPs you made me think of this….

On purpose I am sure

NeoVaris.4806:

Most speedrunning groups don’t actually stack anymore, it just takes pugs several months to catch on, instead they kill bosses on the spot.

It’s been almost half a year now and they still stack.

I seriously doubt that you can back up that GW2 lost a lot of players due to the dungeon meta, it’s more likely that you made this up simply because you and your friends don’t like the way GW2 handles this type of content – which is fine, don’t get me wrong. Even though GW2 tries to cater to the largest possibe audience, it’s not possibly to satisfy ever possible player in the long run.

You overlook something important, though. The dungeons we have are old content. There was a time when the majority of players was not able to clear a dungeon path without their characters leaving said dungeon path in underwear. Today it’s almost common knowledge how to get the job done and most players who go into a dungeon want to make a (more or less) quick buck.

Nerfing the meta – which actually allows even more casual players to join those runs if they care at least a bit about the game mechanics – wouldn’t improve the actual content, it would mostly taking away a reliable way to get gold and that’s about it. Few people would care about those dungeons anymore if not for the reward at the end which simply doesn’t justify spending hours doing a single run in its current state.

And talking about group play enjoyment: If you’re looking for the enjoyment of group play, a pick up group is the wrong place. I can only speak for myself, but I enjoy spending time with my friends even during a slow dungeon run. I don’t enjoy spending the same amount of time with strangers not getting the job done in a group looking for experienced dungeon runners – that’s what beginner or free for all runs are for.

Gyler.8150:

Anyone who full clears Arah p4 should get a legendary, should be an achievement called “Are you having fun now?”

How long does it take?
I dont remember how much trash there might be, but with a decent balanced group it might be fun.
Thanks for tip (if anyone wants to join next few days, mail me on EU).

@alicornus you’re right. I didn’t do a survey of thousands of players to determine the outliers and center of my Z distribution. It is anecdotal evidence of my friends and I. It may be a bit arrogant to think that the twenty people I know are representative of gamers in general. However, there’s really no reason to assume that they are not. All I know is that people I know who love games, RPG’s, and play other MMO’s as well, have expressed frustration with what’s going on. Truth be told, I couldn’t really honestly disagree with their complaints. Guild wars is a great game, but nothing on this earth is perfect. There are many little things that could be changed and it would make it a better game.

I know even you must have small gripes about the game as well. It’s not a dig on the game, there’s always room for improvement in any product. Instead of shooting down attempts to ask for changes or improvements you should make some suggestions of your own. The dungeons are far from perfect.

On your actual suggestions (for reference, I don’t agree with the “game breaking” part):

Derenek.8931:

There are a few simple ways to prevent this game breaking phenomenon.

1. Have the enemies dodge out of AoE circles and not blindly walk back into them.
2. Turn on collision for player characters so they can’t stand in the exact same spot as another character.
3. Place doors in the dungeons that require keys to open. The keys are dropped by random mobs in the dungeon. This way encounters can’t always be bypassed and players actually will have to play the dungeon and fight some monsters in order to progress further.
4. Have the monsters drop better loot progressively. The more enemies you kill, the better the quality of loot becomes. By the end of the dungeon if you fight all the mobs there is a chance of exotic drops, but if you bypass all the mobs, the loot will be green quality at best.

1. Making a “good” AI is not as simple as it seems. Sure, you can try putting things in like enemies constantly dodging your attacks, kiting you around, interrupting your stuff within milliseconds (GW1 mesmer AI anyone) and so on – but that will just turn combat into an annoyance. That aside, if enemies avoid all AoE, what is the point of having such skills in the first place?

2. This will result in griefing whenever crowded places are involved: Towns, world-bosses, WvW anyone? Basically, you hurt everyone playing outside of dungeons, while you likely don’t change much for the dungeons themselves. Even with some collision on, I would think that 5 players can bunch up and achieve the desired “cluster”-effect just fine.

3. A “key” system is already in place. You have to defeat bosses or certain events at set locations. Making this random means you will potentially spend a lot of time running around the dungeon trying to find mobs. Especially for new players who are not aware of all locations/spawns, this will hurt more than help.

4. The most interesting point you raised so far. The problem here is that these rewards will have to be worth the extra time spent. If you can “rush” several explorable paths within the same time it requires you to fully clear a single one, the potential exotic drops are likely not worth it.

Lastly, about helping new players:

Derenek.8931:

Those of us with elite gear and that have run the dungeon hundreds of times really should be the first to ask for redesign to assist newer players. We don’t need to run them anymore for gear and loot. So to grief people or resist any changes is just pointless and is a matter of mental inertia or laziness. Why should newer players and casual players have to adjust to our play style when we’ve done the dungeon so many times we could do it in our sleep? It’s the elite players who should use their advanced gear and experience to adapt to the weaker players. You know the line from Spider-Man, “with great power comes great responsibility.” But seriously, I dare you to go to the dungeon LFG menu and find a group that isn’t asking for lvl 80’s or full zerker gear. Out of all of then less than 10% will be open to newer toons

To me, this sounds like some weird kind of entitlement. Personally, when I’m new to a game and/or its content, I expect some kind of learning curve. What I certainly don’t expect is veteran players being obligated to carry me through the content or getting content completed simply because “I’m there”.

Let me point out that I don’t agree with griefing new players or mocking them for being less experienced. But when different players have different kind of skill-levels, let them use different tactics and let them form appropriate groups?! They will never have to play with each others if they use and respect the lfg-tool appropriately.

@Harny P4 Arah took my old guild group nearly four hours from start to finish. It was freakin awesome and terrifyingly difficult all at the same time. We died a bunch of times, got back together formulated a new strategy, died again, tried a new strategy, and eventually made it through. It was immensely satisfying to finish such an epic challenge.

Dungeons sure aren’t perfect, but the mechanics of stacking and LoS and skipping and such are all fine. If you don’t want to experience these things, make an appropriate LFG and you’ll get exactly what you want.

The only way ANet could change this is to make more complex boss mechanics which actually require movement throughout the boss’s arena and have additional mechanics. If ANet actually did that, I can safely speak for all elitists in this forum when I say that we’re happier about it than the people who don’t want stacking/LoSing in the first place.

FWIW, it’s much more satisfying to me to crush something with flawless play than to die repeatedly and narrowly beat something after a great deal of failure.

I’m not so sure about that dusk, I know 90% of the time when I get volcanic fractal people in my party dread about the imbued grawl shaman. If people don’t icebow 5, you can’t really stack or LOS that boss and alot of people from my experiences actually hate that.

@satenia
1. Making a “good” AI is not as simple as it seems. Sure, you can try putting things in like enemies constantly dodging your attacks, kiting you around, interrupting your stuff within milliseconds (GW1 mesmer AI anyone) and so on – but that will just turn combat into an annoyance. That aside, if enemies avoid all AoE, what is the point of having such skills in the first place?

R: Smarter enemies I feel are more of a challenge than an annoyance. I’m not talking about Dark Souls difficulty here. But mindlessly walking into six stacked AOE spells isn’t good monster AI design. Probably more along the lines of Dragon Age or Skyrim level AI. Both those games are incredibly fun and the monsters aren’t as mindless as the dungeon mobs.

2. This will result in griefing whenever crowded places are involved: Towns, world-bosses, WvW anyone? Basically, you hurt everyone playing outside of dungeons, while you likely don’t change much for the dungeons themselves. Even with some collision on, I would think that 5 players can bunch up and achieve the desired “cluster”-effect just fine.

R: This is just a common sense thing. Turn it on in dungeons, but off in towns and high population areas. Dungeons are already instances for small groups so this type of briefing is inherently more difficult for players to achieve. Start up the game and then get five friends and have them stand so they are clearly separated from each other. The area they cover is not insignificant. A larger exterior area of a circle will allow monsters greater range of mobility and action. This will increase the necessity of movement on the part of individual players, this then forces active play instead of static standing in one spot.

3. A “key” system is already in place. You have to defeat bosses or certain events at set locations. Making this random means you will potentially spend a lot of time running around the dungeon trying to find mobs. Especially for new players who are not aware of all locations/spawns, this will hurt more than help.

R: this is true for some parts of some dungeons. However not in all spots of all dungeons. Take Arah for instance. There are incredibly long run spots where less experienced players will die and the checkpoint is such a large distance away, the dead player is usually just discarded or kicked rather than having the group go back to save them.

4. The most interesting point you raised so far. The problem here is that these rewards will have to be worth the extra time spent. If you can “rush” several explorable paths within the same time it requires you to fully clear a single one, the potential exotic drops are likely not worth it.

R: The range of loot needs to change. Fast runs should only be rewarded with smaller groups. However with larger groups, dungeon completion should be rewarded. So a two man group that runs the dungeon In 10 minutes should get a comparable reward to a five man group that kills all the monsters.

Derenek, I don’t see myself as a fanboy of any sorts. I even have criticized the game and its developers on more than one occasion in the past and I still don’t think of GW2 being the best possible game, although I like it enough to care and play nonetheless.
But as I wrote earlier, I don’t think that it would improve the game by any means to merely stretch old and well known content. If you don’t use the well known tactics and play with casuals, a run will take hours to complete, and I doubt that this is what casual players are actually looking for if they want to have fun with a game. The dungeon meta is actually the easy way of getting the job done and for a player who is at least not a stranger to the game mechanics, has a decent equipment (which is not hard to get) and is able to play monkey see, monkey do with the more experienced players in the group, it’s not hard to enter the world of dungeons in GW2.
Nerfing the current way of doing things would make things more challenging as would new content with more complex mechanics. Rising Dusk hit the nail right on the head by pointing out that more complex boss mechanics and the like would rather leave casual players behind than helping them to join the fun.
For seasoned veterans this would actually improve the dungeon part of the game. Casuals would end up between a rock and a hard place, though, as opposed to the current dungeon meta.

Yeah. Perhaps introduce difficulty settings. Add in the smarter monsters and refined mechanics, and scale damage modifiers. Get better rewards for higher difficulties while still granting the same tactical gameplay challenge to all players. Guys with legendaries like you and I could run at max difficulty, while casuals would run it at normal. Then balance things so each level is challenging, but not impossible.

Hi, welcome to fractals where we alraedy have that in a silly RNG based package with mediocre drops causing everyone to cry about them. But, good news is they’re fun Except a fwe of them… much hate for snowblind.

Jerus.4350:

Hi, welcome to fractals where we alraedy have that in a silly RNG based package with mediocre drops causing everyone to cry about them. But, good news is they’re fun Except a fwe of them… much hate for snowblind.

Much of the behavior coding necessary has already been completed in fractals. Use some living world sessions between HoT and the next expansion due out in Feb 12, 2525. Updating monsters with smarter AI

Good heavens, you’re so out of schedule. We were supposed to get that 247th anti-stacking thread weeks ago.

We needed this back in our lives guys <3

I swear they always come up with the biggest wall of text. They’re so cute!

Derenek.8931:

1. Have the enemies dodge out of AoE circles and not blindly walk back into them.

Annoying. You might think this would be fun, but it wouldnt.

Derenek.8931:

2. Turn on collision for player characters so they can’t stand in the exact same spot as another character.

Annoying. Dying because you were blocked by a teammate out of an AOE is frustating. Annoying.

Derenek.8931:

3. Place doors in the dungeons that require keys to open. The keys are dropped by random mobs in the dungeon. This way encounters can’t always be bypassed and players actually will have to play the dungeon and fight some monsters in order to progress further.

A…..annoying.

Derenek.8931:

4. Have the monsters drop better loot progressively. The more enemies you kill, the better the quality of loot becomes. By the end of the dungeon if you fight all the mobs there is a chance of exotic drops, but if you bypass all the mobs, the loot will be green quality at best.

You truly believe that change would encourage people to kill mobs. You couldnt be more wrong. I’d still rush the end chest than clear all trash mobs who are dull and boring to fight, with no mechanics whatsoever.

Another annoying suggestion.

Keep trying. I hope your next one doesn’t continue the Annoying-scale I’ve assembled during this post.

You must be new here. I recommend reading the FAQ. (Link)

Start with this post: (Link)

Nokaru.7831:

You must be new here. I recommend reading the FAQ. (Link)

Start with this post: (Link)

So it doesn’t tell you anything that there are hundreds if posts by different people all complaining about the same thing? Why bother defending the status quo? You can’t say that people are happy with the dungeon design if so many people vehemently write so many posts against it. If a thousand people say something sucks, but you’re tired of reading it, it doesn’t make the thing good.

Random dodges from NPCs are annoying though. Dodges that follow certain rules are still manipulatable. And dodges that are endless and just OP are well… just OP.

If it were, “dodge out of AE circle” on a say 20s reuse, then sure, you drop a weak or quickly reusable one initially then drop your bomb in the replaced NPC… still maniplatable and simply one more step. If it’s “dodge AE circles 50% of the time” then it’s just this mobile enemy where you drop any attacks that use AE circles as it’s no longer worth using them outside of maybe Meteor and Ice bow (currently still worth praying for it). If it’s dodge out of every AE circle, again, you just don’t use any AE circles becuase it’s just going to lead to a ton of evade frames.

So really, how would you approach it and keep it fun and keep the options in the players hands? Shoudl we not be allowed to use field damage? Isn’t that restricting our options? Is having to use them slightly more intelligently really going to change anything?

I just don’t really see a way to have a fun change to the status quo. I haven’t seen a game before do it well, as most mobile enemies have always been annoying, unless the challenge is simply herding them as part of a gimmicky event.

The only thing that bothers me with stacking is how most ranged enemies will not reposition themselves when you hide from their line of sight or when you engage them in melee range.

When you aggro a Dredge Ratnik (the dredge with a rifle) and then hide behind a wall, the Dredge will run towards you, go round the wall and then do ranged auto-attacks in melee range. Why isn’t he repositioning himself once he has sight of you so that he can do his ranged auto attacks safely?

It’s funny how the low level Tamini archers from Queensdale have this kind of AI, but end game dungeon mobs don’t.

Derenek.8931:

You are a pathetic troll.

My my. Have we resorted to name-calling this soon? It usually occurs somewhere around page two.

FenrirSlakt.3692:

My my. Have we resorted to name-calling this soon? It usually occurs somewhere around page two.

Even the threads are getting more optimized

FenrirSlakt.3692:

Derenek.8931:

You are a pathetic troll.

My my. Have we resorted to name-calling this soon? It usually occurs somewhere around page two.

I admit I did feel bad for posting that so I edited it somewhat. I’m down for constructive criticism, but general “your ideas suck” comments get on my nerves. I apologize to all the good people here for falling to that guy’s level.