Thaddeauz [xQCx]- QC GUILD
Do you think Raids in GW2 were a bad idea?
Here’s a tip for anyone trying to sus out reward numbers: If you, yourself are not willing to do content under those kinds of rewards, then you have no business suggesting that level of reward for other people.
If you’re actually interested in debate and compromise, you’ll go from there.
Here, help me help you what exactly do you have a problem with again given the solution above ?
Because the reward is non-existent meaning nobody will do it more than once to experiment the content. Just like almost nobody is doing the fractal level 1-10 or story mode dungeons.
See there is a spectrum of reward that easy-mode have. Obviously almost nobody want easy-mode to have the exact same reward as normal raid. At least nobody that is worst listening to.
But it’s equally dump to give near zero rewards.
There is a point in between those two extreme where you can satisfy both side. It need to be low enough reward that doing normal raid is more profitable. That if you have the skill and group, it’s worth practising the normal raid to get those reward. But at the same time, the reward for easy mode need to be high enough that they are worst doing every week.
Again, I repeated myself a lot on that. Just like pre-hot fractal. Everybody wanted to do the level 50 because it’s the best rewards. But some people could still have decent reward by doing level 20, 30 or 40. Either because they don’t have the gear, or the knowledge. And there was enough reward that people doing level 50 could want to do those low level after or help some friend in those lower level without feeling that they wasted their time.
Thaddeauz [xQCx]- QC GUILD
The problem is the shards. In my ideal reward distribution, Normal raid would have the exclusivity on Legendary armor (as long as other armor are in other mode) and unique skin rewards.
Shards is the easiest to deal with if Easy mode is done right. Just make it so easier difficulties require less phases to succeed, then give the same shards you would get as if you had failed at the next phase. For example: easy mode Vale Guardian contains just the first phase (before the first split), if you succeed you get the same amount of shards as if you failed at the split phase in normal mode. Problem solved.
It’s the same with achievements really. For achievements, if they require a specific phase, then if you do that specific phase you get the achievement (for example beating split phase within a time limit), there is no need to get them only in “normal mode”, since in this case it would be the exact same thing.
The boss kill achievements, and the legendary armor, are a lot trickier to deal with though. And so is the final boss chest RNG
So what’s is the incentive to do hard mode if guilds can just shard cap on easy mode and get collections and achievements in it?
RP enthusiast
But it’s equally dump to give near zero rewards.
No it’s not. Near zero rewards are appropriate for near zero effort. Remember when some people are asking for an easy mode, in reality they are asking for free hand-outs. They are asking for the content to be balanced for non-min maxed Exotics with a couple of Rares, in total random compositions and builds. That’s even worse than zero effort, it’s a joke.
Want a real “easy mode”? Get some reduced rewards for it and all is fine.
Want to get them for completely free? Then you will get near zero rewards.
It’s a really complicated issue which is becoming harder to “solve” when the ideas for what an easy mode would be, how it would work are completely different. One reward system is appropriate for easy mode A but a completely different one is appropriate for easy mode B.
I think the entire discussion was done completely backwards. Instead of discussing the potential rewards for an easy mode, we haven’t yet agreed upon, why not try to find a good “easy mode” that we can agree on, and then start discussing appropriate rewards for that specific easy mode.
Shards is the easiest to deal with if Easy mode is done right. Just make it so easier difficulties require less phases to succeed, then give the same shards you would get as if you had failed at the next phase. For example: easy mode Vale Guardian contains just the first phase (before the first split), if you succeed you get the same amount of shards as if you failed at the split phase in normal mode. Problem solved.
It’s the same with achievements really. For achievements, if they require a specific phase, then if you do that specific phase you get the achievement (for example beating split phase within a time limit), there is no need to get them only in “normal mode”, since in this case it would be the exact same thing.
The boss kill achievements, and the legendary armor, are a lot trickier to deal with though. And so is the final boss chest RNG
You didn’t read my text right? Just like Sird said, if you give shards in easy-mode then people will
1) Have access to all the reward normal raid have.
2) Since the shards are capped there will be no incentive little incentive to do the normal raid.
The #2 can easily be fix. Just had a easy-mode cap of like 20 or 50 shard per week that is different from the 100 cap from the normal raid. That said, it still mean that easy-mode raider will have access to all unique skin reward, which I don’t think is a good idea. I think that the unique skins and minis should be exclusive to normal raid.
Thaddeauz [xQCx]- QC GUILD
Iunno. Fractals? Dungeons? Some new form of content we haven’t seen yet? What if Luminescent armor was a precursor?
Well, that would certainly speed things up, but since some players would have to pay for LS2, I doubt that would go over well. Seriously though, if there were easy mode raids, and if there was a second PvE method for unlocking Legendaries, why NOT combine the two?
The word is modal. Not model. Multimodal as in “it has more than one mode”. Though now that I think about it, having some models in raids would be good. Is Karrueche Tran a model?
Yeah, I misspell things from time to time.
It’s not the best. We’ve seen it before. It don’t work no good.
Maybe not for you, and even more dubiously, maybe not for WoW, but it works good for me, and I believe it would work for the players of GW2.
Ohoni.6057:
I hope you don’t mind if I quote you the next time Doc suggests LFG updates as a panacea.
I always mind when people take my quotes out of context.
Oh, don’t worry, I’ll keep it 100% in context.
I would probably expect a lower participation rate compared to the market. But no, the participation rate is higher.
If they expected a lower participation rate then why on earth would they bother making it at all? My assumption is that they believed they would design a different sort of raid, one that would appeal to a much larger audience than the raids in most MMOs. Whether it’s succeeded at that is dubious, and perhaps they never intended that, btu if not, I don’t see the point.
More specifically, the solution to your desires should never be “hey maybe I should dogmatically pursue a very specific multimodal raid structure without considering alternate positions on the official forums”.
I consider all possible options, I just reject the ones that prove inferior.
The broad conclusions we can draw from the data-set is that multimodal raids will not make up for the rest of the game being weak.
Well that’s true, and I wouldn’t expect raids, in any form, to “save” GW2, should it need saving. But having multiple difficulties would increase the likely participation rate, because it would broaden the range of players who could potentially find raiding to be a fun and rewarding use of their time. Done right, you would have tens of thousands more players raiding on a weekly, or at least occasional basis. That’s a net positive. And no matter how much work you think it may take to implement, it can’t be more work than actually implementing brand new content, so it’s a workload savings too.
Win-win-win.
Granted, I am being slightly hyperbolic, my apologies. Still, the point remains; if your exact parameters for the difficulty of the content are met, yet you cannot achieve them, will we be seeing you again asking for a third difficulty, or for nerfs to the new second difficulty?
And as I said, if they meet the parameters I laid out, I think it’s practically impossible for me to not complete it. But to entertain your hypothetical, if they do design the easy mode so that the overwhelming majority of players, given a few hours, could pass it, and yet somehow I am not one of these people, then I could accept that.
You don’t earn raid rewards like you earn money. You earn them like you earn an award. You complete an achievement, you get the reward. You get 90% or higher on the test, you get an A. You do the boss’s mechanics well enough, you get your rewards.
And yet the rewards and the content they are attached to are completely arbitrary and at ANet’s whim. Today, the only way to earn the Legendary armor involves raiding. Tomorrow it could involve walking up to an NPC in LA and pressing “f”, and that would be “earning” it by your standards because you met the goal ANet set for you. I think that “earning” any reward in the game should be a matter of putting in a necessary amount of time and effort, I just believe that the game should try to be flexible with players, so that they ENJOY the time and effort they put in, because that works out better for EVERYONE. The only ones who could possibly oppose something like that are people who can only be happy at other people’s expense, and I do not pander to those people.
If you are truly determined to earn the raid rewards, perhaps you should begin the long, hard slog to mastering the raids.
Again, you know that this is not a helpful comment, and yet you say it anyway, and there is a term for that.
Legendaries aren’t those short term rewards. They’re long term rewards
I totally agree, which is why they should be available in multiple places. I’m not talking about making it take less time or effort to earn them, just that the method should be more flexible.
Ohoni.6057:
If that is true, then hard mode should not exist, end of story
.
Raid participation rates have exceeded their targets.
But again YOU are the one claiming that they would be incapable of meeting these targets if they could not hold certain rewards completely hostage. If YOU are correct in that, then raids do not justify their existence. All that would mean is that players really want those rewards and would do any horrible thing to get them. They could save a lot of time by just having an NPC that you have to chase around a field and press “f” every few seconds near him a hundred thousand times. It’d take little time to code and keep you all busy for quite a while, apparently.
Are you implying that raiders don’t enjoy raiding? The specific reason raids were added was because there wasn’t much challenging content and people who wanted that challenge can now chew on raids.
No, YOU are implying that they don’t like raiding, because YOU claim that if there were ANY easier path to those rewards, it would become impossible to find nine other players who would bother with serious raiding anymore. I’m only taking you at your word, nothing more.
Also your reward model isn’t significantly lower. It’s barely lower. You still get all the important items from your dream ezmode without much trouble.
It would take at least three times as long, representing dozens of hours of work, that’s plenty of trouble.
“If you spent as much time working on [some task] as
you spend complaining about it on the forums, you’d be
done by now.”
you spend complaining about it on the forums, you’d be
done by now.”
I compromised i went from junk to some silver, and gave into the idea of an easy mode even existing. Should one exist its rewards should be barebones.
All that shows is that you don’t understand what the word “compromise” means.
“If you spent as much time working on [some task] as
you spend complaining about it on the forums, you’d be
done by now.”
you spend complaining about it on the forums, you’d be
done by now.”
I think that the unique skins and minis should be exclusive to normal raid.
The only thing that you must do to access the unique rewards, is finish the Raid just once. For Spirit Vale, Kill Sabetha once in your lifetime and then you can just wipe-farm at Vale Guardian for the shards.
The easiest way to prevent easy mode from getting the unique rewards is to keep them locked even if they defeat the boss in easy mode. Then the rewards will be unlocked once they finish the normal mode bosses at least once on their account. Then it’s up to them to decide which mode to farm for the shards, since easy mode and wipe-farming at VG aren’t much different, if you care only about the shards.
tl;dr unlock the rewards only after you beat normal mode boss, shards are fine
No it’s not. Near zero rewards are appropriate for near zero effort. Remember when some people are asking for an easy mode, in reality they are asking for free hand-outs. They are asking for the content to be balanced for non-min maxed Exotics with a couple of Rares, in total random compositions and builds. That’s even worse than zero effort, it’s a joke.
Want a real “easy mode”? Get some reduced rewards for it and all is fine.
Want to get them for completely free? Then you will get near zero rewards.It’s a really complicated issue which is becoming harder to “solve” when the ideas for what an easy mode would be, how it would work are completely different. One reward system is appropriate for easy mode A but a completely different one is appropriate for easy mode B.
I think the entire discussion was done completely backwards. Instead of discussing the potential rewards for an easy mode, we haven’t yet agreed upon, why not try to find a good “easy mode” that we can agree on, and then start discussing appropriate rewards for that specific easy mode.
We won’t get to figure out what is a good easy mode because nobody agree. Don’t get me wrong it’s a good discussion to have and it have been done before too, but nobody will agree on that either.
In my version, I would try to keep as much mechanics I could, but more easy to complete.
1) Remove all enrage timers
2) For VG. Remove the 4th Seeker, make them do only 75% of their normal damage. Instead of 5 blue teleport attack, there is only 4 of them. You only need 2 players in the green circle. The illuminated floor only does 75% of their normal damage.
2) For Gorseval. Spirits only buff Gorseval by 5% when he eat them instead of 10%. Gorseval have 75% of his normal hp. At first I wanted to add like 2 others updraft or maybe make all updraft be able to be used twice, but this started to be more work for the devs. Dropping his hp a bit is a cheaper ways to achieve the same thing. Make it easier to phase him.
3) Canons spawn each 60sec instead of each 30seconds. The Flamewall have a cooldown of 90sec instead of kitten , but still start each time Sabetha get back on the platform. Karde have now 75% of his normal hp. There is always only 1 timed bomb, not 2 at the end.
4) Slothazor. Tantrum does 33% of his normal damage. Volatile Poison spawn each 60sec instead of each 25sec. No evolve Slubling. Remove half of the condition on Wet dog.
5) Bandit Trio. I consider this fight to be an easy-mode by itself.
6) Matthias. I want to have more experience with this fight before pronouncing myself.
All of this can vary. The goal is to keep as much mechanics as possible (all mechanics if possible), but to make them a little bit less punishing or a bit less frequent, but they should still be raid wiper if you miss too much of them. That way, people will learn them in easy mode, not just ignore them and freak out when to try the normal raid. I also wanted to remove most dps check so that people in pugs with not good composition or people with none meta build could still complete it.
But I know that not everybody have the same opinion than me on that.
Thaddeauz [xQCx]- QC GUILD
I like your ideas Thaddeus, about having to beat normal raid once to unlock specific raid rewards as mini or skins. I still think that the legendary armor should stay behind normal raid (it’s legendary after all…).
And your propositions about easy raid mechanisms seem realistic, but since you’re talking about keeping wipe mechanisms, some people won’t agree with you because, you know, it’s too stressfull to wipe…
Look at Fractals. The rewards are the same across all the levels, only droprates are different. Yet still people do the highest tier fractals, even when they are more difficult than level 1-10 ones. Quantity does matter.
(don’t bring swamp up, here we have the problem with quantity being the same for different difficulty, which is not anything anyon argues here for)Sorry, I disagree. The data can’t be considered fairly when Swamps is in the mix. Swamps does not actually add any difficulty and it adds a trivial amount of time to the process. You need to be looking at the older data as Thaddeus points out.
Older data (when Fractals were in the “random three + boss” mode) supports it even more. People _were _running as high fractal level reward tier as they could manage. Even if just running tier 1 was easiest.
Way to avoid the point completely.
Either after the split there will still be enough hard mode players to sustain it, in which case it’s not an argument, or there won’t be, in which case there wasn’t enough of them to justify the mode in the first place.But raids as they are have exceeded their target participation rate so there’s no need to implement the model in the first place.
First, that’s a misquote (it’s not what has been said – and you already know it). Second, the raid population argument was not used to justify easy mode. It was used to justify a claim that splitting that population would hurt raid. By you. You can’t at the same time argue that raid population is thriving, and that it’s so small that it cannot survive the easy mode. And yet, that’s what you’re trying to do.
I get what you’re saying but there’s no need to make multimodal raids when they’re already justifying their resource expenditure and then some.
Then it’s good that easy mode is not meant to be addressed primarily for that population, isn’kitten
Yes, but the apple tree is not Raid. It’s ANet. Raid is just the box you pick them from – there’s no reason why they can’t also be in a different box.
I dunno. I think I’ve made myself clear on which rewards I think should be offered through other avenues and which shouldn’t. Legendary armor through a second avenue, sure, accessories with new stat spreads, sure, skins, I’d rather not.
Maybe, but that had nothing to do with the argument that started the apples discussion. You claimed, that 50 apples is the same kitten apples, that quantitative distinction is unimportant. Not to you specifically, but in general.
The problem is the shards. In my ideal reward distribution, Normal raid would have the exclusivity on Legendary armor (as long as other armor are in other mode) and unique skin rewards.
There’s not going to be a different legendary armor in other modes. Not when Anet’s suspending Legendary weapons. At this moment any ideas that are based on its existence are pointless.
Actions, not words.
Remember, remember, 15th of November
Remember, remember, 15th of November
And no matter how much work you think it may take to implement, it can’t be more work than actually implementing brand new content, so it’s a workload savings too.
(Link)
I don’t know why you insist on making any sort of reference to how hard or easy something is to implement when you were specifically told not to. Are you deliberately trying to mislead people, or are you just forgetful?
Gaile Gray.6029:With all due respect, unless you’re a developer for GW2 you are not qualified to make a statement about the time needed, difficulty involved, or feasibility of such a feature.
Well, that would certainly speed things up, but since some players would have to pay for LS2, I doubt that would go over well. Seriously though, if there were easy mode raids, and if there was a second PvE method for unlocking Legendaries, why NOT combine the two?
…What? You have to pay for HoT anyway.
Because having two rewards from the same raid in two different difficulties is boring and lazy.
If they expected a lower participation rate then why on earth would they bother making it at all? My assumption is that they believed they would design a different sort of raid, one that would appeal to a much larger audience than the raids in most MMOs. Whether it’s succeeded at that is dubious, and perhaps they never intended that, btu if not, I don’t see the point.
Because they projected a reasonable amount of developer effort for a return that they considered reasonable? We’re going backwards here.
And they’ve made those raids. It’s called Dragon’s Stand.
I consider all possible options, I just reject the ones that prove inferior.
You haven’t proven anything lol
Well that’s true, and I wouldn’t expect raids, in any form, to “save” GW2, should it need saving.
Well it’s good that you can agree that I actually have some knowledge on something. Raids, whether they have multiple modes or not, won’t save GW2.
But having multiple difficulties would increase the likely participation rate, because it would broaden the range of players who could potentially find raiding to be a fun and rewarding use of their time. Done right, you would have tens of thousands more players raiding on a weekly, or at least occasional basis. That’s a net positive.
You can’t say it’s a net positive when the amount of work required to implement the content is an unknown, non-negligible number, you don’t know the uptake rates, you don’t know the current uptake rates and you don’t know the targets.
And no matter how much work you think it may take to implement, it can’t be more work than actually implementing brand new content, so it’s a workload savings too.
…are you really making the argument that “if they introduce easy modes they get to make less content”
am i taking crazy pills? i put it in big letters because it’s important
And as I said, if they meet the parameters I laid out, I think it’s practically impossible for me to not complete it. But to entertain your hypothetical, if they do design the easy mode so that the overwhelming majority of players, given a few hours, could pass it, and yet somehow I am not one of these people, then I could accept that.
Consider my breath bated. Or is it baited. idk
And yet the rewards and the content they are attached to are completely arbitrary and at ANet’s whim. Today, the only way to earn the Legendary armor involves raiding. Tomorrow it could involve walking up to an NPC in LA and pressing “f”, and that would be “earning” it by your standards because you met the goal ANet set for you. I think that “earning” any reward in the game should be a matter of putting in a necessary amount of time and effort, I just believe that the game should try to be flexible with players, so that they ENJOY the time and effort they put in, because that works out better for EVERYONE. The only ones who could possibly oppose something like that are people who can only be happy at other people’s expense, and I do not pander to those people.
Everyone who disagrees with you is a sadist. Got it.
Again, you know that this is not a helpful comment, and yet you say it anyway, and there is a term for that.
I am sorry that you didn’t take any information from these stories to heart?
I totally agree, which is why they should be available in multiple places. I’m not talking about making it take less time or effort to earn them, just that the method should be more flexible.
I agree, legendary armor should be available in more places. I said this a few posts ago. Now on yer way
But again YOU are the one claiming that they would be incapable of meeting these targets
did not make this claim
if they could not hold certain rewards completely hostage. If YOU are correct in that, then raids do not justify their existence. All that would mean is that players really want those rewards and would do any horrible thing to get them. They could save a lot of time by just having an NPC that you have to chase around a field and press “f” every few seconds near him a hundred thousand times. It’d take little time to code and keep you all busy for quite a while, apparently.
bro, reducing the difficulty by reducing the game to ‘pressing f on an npc’ is the logical fallacy that i should be using on you, not the other way around
No, YOU are implying that they don’t like raiding, because YOU claim that if there were ANY easier path to those rewards, it would become impossible to find nine other players who would bother with serious raiding anymore. I’m only taking you at your word, nothing more.
not implying that. i’ve already told you about decision making when enjoyment is equal
It would take at least three times as long, representing dozens of hours of work, that’s plenty of trouble.
uh, no, we’ve explained why this is wrong several times before
Nalhadia – Kaineng
And your propositions about easy raid mechanisms seem realistic, but since you’re talking about keeping wipe mechanisms, some people won’t agree with you because, you know, it’s too stressfull to wipe…
To be honest I don’t really mind. This content isn’t targeting me, since I’ll continue to do normal raid anyway. So if more people want a no difficulty raid that you can’t wipe at all and you can ignore the mechanics or remove the mechanics all together, then fine. It’s will take more time to create those (changing a timer or the damage is faster than to remove a mechanics out of a fight). But if that’s the case, then I agree with people saying that there should be near zero reward. No legendary, no shards, no unique rewards, no ascended drop, just like 5-25% of the gold, some xp and some rare.
The problem is the shards. In my ideal reward distribution, Normal raid would have the exclusivity on Legendary armor (as long as other armor are in other mode) and unique skin rewards.
There’s not going to be a different legendary armor in other modes. Not when Anet’s suspending Legendary weapons. At this moment any ideas that are based on its existence are pointless.
You are right. I guess there was still some hope in me about gw2. In that case my opinion is simple. If the easy-mode keep most if not all mechanics from the current raid, just less punishing or less frequent then they could have legendary armor in them but it need to be longer to achieve. Maybe something like the legendary back item in fractal. You receive an item each time you kill a boss each week and you need to accumulate a certain quantity before advancing in the collection. Or they could just put this legendary armor elsewhere and not in easy mode. Like in PvP, WvW or Open World.
If the easy more is not wipable and super easy like dungeon, then they shouldn’t have Legendary as a reward, but they should still put them as a reward in PvP, WvW or Open World. (Ideally all 3 of them).
Thaddeauz [xQCx]- QC GUILD
I see a lot of raiders giving in to the idea of easy mode raids, but I still think it’s a terrible idea.
I’ve seen two main reasons for easy mode raids. 1) They want to complete the content. 2) They want the unique rewards, usually legendary armor.
Regarding 1 – Easy mode raids are not the best avenue for easy content. You’ll still need to find 10 people to group up with. You’ll (likely) still need to fulfill certain roles — tank, dps, healer, condi, etc. These organizational barriers (though not, in my opinion, very high) stop some from raiding. They’ll likely stop you from easy raiding too.
And, if you want content where you don’t need roles, or organization, you have it! Dungeons. Fractals. World bosses. Map metas. This content caters to your skill level.
The fact is, not all content is caters to all skill levels. You need some skill to beat arah. Liadri. Triple trouble. There’s no easy mode there. Why? Because there’s tons of easy content to enjoy. Ask for more fractals. More dungeons.
And, some raids bosses are easier than others. Like dungeons. Trio is easier than sloth. VG is easier than gorseval.
Not all content needs to be complete-able by the lowest skill level.
Regarding 2 – So there’s no gear treadmill in Guild wars 2. Which is great. Your gear stays relevant for a long time.
But post 80 players need something to work towards. And that’s skins. And, to a lesser extent, legendaries.
So I don’t really understand the hubbub against unique skins. Every game mode has them. Pvp, wvw, super adventure box, silverwastes, every hot map, dungeons – I could go on. Skins show other players you beat that content. Seems ok to me.
Now legendaries. Ok. They have the same stats as ascended. The stat change is mostly useless, because you can’t change sigils and runes. You could make 1000 exotics or 20 ascended weapons for the price of 1 legendary. But some people want them.
So I don’t think we need an easy mode just so people can get legendary armor. Seems like a round about way to solve a particular problem. The obvious solution is to provide a different way to acquire them.
It apparently takes a long time to do this, based on the legendary weapon fiasco. So let’s assume they won’t add alternate methods for the foreseeable future.
It’s not unprecedented to have legendaries tied to particular game modes. For weapons, it’s pve. For backpieces, it’s pvp (and, eventually, fractals). For armor, it’s raids. And so are you “forced” to do raids to get legendary armor. Yes. Just like you are forced to do open world pve, or forced to do pvp, for the other legendaries.
I won’t be getting another legendary weapon any time soon. The new HOT maps aren’t that fun for me. But I don’t demand alternate ways to get them. I don’t demand different HOT maps. When I see that legendary staff, I think, wow, that guy did a lot of pve. When I see the legendary backpiece, I think, wow, that guy is good at pvp. And when you see the legendary armor, you’ll think, wow, that guy did a lot of raids.
But his armor won’t be any better than yours. Just like the legendary staff isn’t any better than mine. It’s a prestige item. As it should be.
I see a lot of raiders giving in to the idea of easy mode raids, but I still think it’s a terrible idea.
I’ve seen two main reasons for easy mode raids. 1) They want to complete the content. 2) They want the unique rewards, usually legendary armor.
Oh i’m aware its a terrible idea. Which was why i went through the farce okittennowledging a hypothetical existence of one.
Sadly it was proven pretty easily that what the players want is not to complete the content, it’s the rewards. I have a huge problem with people wanting rewards for no effort in the game, especially considering you’re already awarded for failing. Seriously, stop being lazy, go learn the fights, and beat them.
You’ll never ever appease this crowd of people because at the end of the day they’ll feel slighted that easy mode gives less, or even that they had to have an easy mode. Heck if that easy mode isn’t easy enough they’ll come back and complain more. Sad really.
I bet as soon as they announce a different set of Legendary Armor obtained anywhere else in the game the vast majority of these complaints would be gone.
Nope.
Yep, and rather than leave it at that like your one-word retort:
- Legendary Armor stat changes (fairly insignificant QoL given the rune costs) are something people are chiming in a lot for. See every single misconception argument about Legendary > Ascended.
- Purple > Pink, people will go for the shiny always. It looks better and unlike raids, can be earned in a manner that one might find more ‘in-line’ for their interests.
You going to deny these points?
If not, we can approach those current arguments as being selfish given years of unique content that has not been raged about and yet has done the same thing without an outcry. SAB, Queen’s Jubilee, LS1…
Just because you haven’t noticed it, does not mean that this has not been discussed.
Oh there were threads…of about maybe 4 posts deep for those kinds of things. Idle chatter, there were not waves of people complaining about SAB weapons, actually a lot of the complaints were just about SAB accessibility in general which continues to this day. Hell, think I might make another SAB thread right now, it’ll get more responses than any of the topics I mentioned, or get merged with the megathread.
Nothing remotely on the scale that is continued to be brought up here though.
Suicidal Warrior.
Putting Perspective on Zerg Sizes since 2012. Common Suffixes for 40+ include ~Zilla and ~Train
“Seriously, just dodge.”
Putting Perspective on Zerg Sizes since 2012. Common Suffixes for 40+ include ~Zilla and ~Train
“Seriously, just dodge.”
there were not waves of people complaining about SAB weapons
That’s actually easily understandable. Given those weapons’ unusual graphic style, the people that were interested in them were generally the same people that were interested in SAB itself. There was no disassociation of rewards from content.
Unlike Raids, in this case saying that if you weren’t interested in SAB, you weren’t interested in rewards from it was mostly true.
And as for LS, you have noticed how most of the old LS skins were, in fact, brought back as a result of players asking for them?
Actions, not words.
Remember, remember, 15th of November
Remember, remember, 15th of November
For example: easy mode Vale Guardian contains just the first phase (before the first split), if you succeed you get the same amount of shards as if you failed at the split phase in normal mode. Problem solved.
But this would fail at the “identical mechanics to the actual raid” test, and ultimately wouldn’t be a terribly fun experience, or terribly useful really since it would basically be just playing hard mode and giving up after the first phase. We’ve already been saying that the rewards for easy mode would be basically equivalent to the pity-shard rewards, but it should be for completing the entire encounter, not just the first phase.
So what’s is the incentive to do hard mode if guilds can just shard cap on easy mode and get collections and achievements in it?
I don’t think you would be able to shard cap on easy mode, at least not until more wings are added. You might be able to shard cap by completing all the easy modes and then faring pity-shards a bit, but not through easy mode alone.
Near zero rewards are appropriate for near zero effort. Remember when some people are asking for an easy mode, in reality they are asking for free hand-outs.
No, in reality, when people ask for easy mode, they are asking for easy mode, that’s why they say “easy mode.” It would still be effort, it would still be time, and it would deserve fewer rewards than hard, but not negligible rewards. As easy as it would be when compared to hard mode content, it would still be equivalent to most content in the game, so there’s no reason why it would not be as rewarded as other content areas, beyond punitive measures by those who just do not like easy mode as a concept.
The easiest way to prevent easy mode from getting the unique rewards is to keep them locked even if they defeat the boss in easy mode. Then the rewards will be unlocked once they finish the normal mode bosses at least once on their account. Then it’s up to them to decide which mode to farm for the shards, since easy mode and wipe-farming at VG aren’t much different, if you care only about the shards.
But this misses the entire point of easy mode, which is to provide an ALTERNATIVE to EVER completing hard mode for those who are not suited for hard mode. That is the primary goal, for players to never have to beat a hard mode encounter unless they want to do that of their own free will. All your method would lead too is lazy hard moders using it as a cheap farming method, or non-hard moders paying for runs so that they can cross that hurdle and then going back to easy. It would be the worst of all world, and you should know better than to believe otherwise.
I still think that the legendary armor should stay behind normal raid (it’s legendary after all…).
This statement is too meaningless to be repeated as often as it is. Legendary armor is not “legendary,” that is just a term that they chose to apply to it. Earning it does not make you legendary, it just means you’ve done some raiding. Big whup! Nobody cares! Stop worrying about stroking your own ego raw, and start thinking about what would make the most people the most happy. Restricting armor to only the very few that enjoy hard mode raiding benefits no one.
And your propositions about easy raid mechanisms seem realistic, but since you’re talking about keeping wipe mechanisms, some people won’t agree with you because, you know, it’s too stressfull to wipe…
Agreed. Wiping should be possible, but only through the layering of multiple successive failures. There should be no mechanisms that would take an otherwise successful run and cause it to wipe within seconds if you screw that one mechanic up. Any mechanic that can lead to inevitable failure on only a single bad situation is too much of the core issue with hard mode raiding.
…What? You have to pay for HoT anyway.
Because having two rewards from the same raid in two different difficulties is boring and lazy.
Well yes, but there are plenty of people who own HoT already but do not own season 2, so if you told them you’d have to play through season 2 to get the Legendary armor, I’m sure there would be outcry. Again, not my problem, I do have full Lumi, but I don’t think it would work out well across the community.
You can’t say it’s a net positive when the amount of work required to implement the content is an unknown, non-negligible number, you don’t know the uptake rates, you don’t know the current uptake rates and you don’t know the targets.
I can’t give exact figures, certainly, but I think we can make reasonable estimates using basic Fermi problem calculations. No matter how much work it would take to turn hard mode raids into easy ones, it would inevitably be less work than building equivalent content from the ground up, agreed? I mean 99% of the things that you would need to create an instanced encounter, the environment, the mob design and animation, the attack sequences, all that stuff is already done, no need to re-invent the wheel. So in terms of adding content to the game, even if this would take longer than I assume, it would still take less time than just about anything else they could add to the game of equivalent length and replayability.
…are you really making the argument that “if they introduce easy modes they get to make less content”
am i taking crazy pills? i put it in big letters because it’s important
It’s true. Now obviously they should add other content, as much as they possibly can, but it would take a little of the pressure off, since it would give people more stuff to do. I’m not saying they should throw 100% of their resources into easy mode raiding as a methadone for LWs3, they need to get that out too, but if they could devote a few resources to easy mode raiding and get that out the door relatively quickly, it might keep people occupied for a time, or if it would take a while, they could drop it between LWs3 releases. Either way, assuming they don’t completely screw it up, there will be plenty of people who would be engaged by it, and more content is better than not.
Everyone who disagrees with you is a sadist. Got it.
Hey, they’re the ones that make the case for that, not me. How else could you justify wanting to keep things away from people, when it would in no way hurt you for them to have it?
Regarding 1 – Easy mode raids are not the best avenue for easy content. You’ll still need to find 10 people to group up with. You’ll (likely) still need to fulfill certain roles — tank, dps, healer, condi, etc. These organizational barriers (though not, in my opinion, very high) stop some from raiding. They’ll likely stop you from easy raiding too.
1. They’re apparently improving LFG. While this is not the overall panacea that Doc thinks it is, it would improve the ability to find groups.
2. If it’s easier, then FAR more people would be open to doing it. Instead of being a likely several hours of nothing but pity-shards and failure, it would be a fun and rewarding dungeon crawl, finding a party shouldn’t be at all difficult, far easier than finding a party for hard mode.
3. While group comp might have some value, it would be far less vital than in hard mode because the tolerances would be looser. The only “role” you’d actually need for VG, for example, would be one character with slightly higher toughness than everyone else, and at least a few capable of boon stripping and another few that can deal some condi damage. This would go slightly beyond my “the easy way to make easy mode” methods, but ideally they could have like a little shrine outside certain bosses that would give a “+200 Toughness” buff to only a single player per run, making it easier for one to pull ahead of the others in toughness even with everyone in random builds.
And, if you want content where you don’t need roles, or organization, you have it! Dungeons. Fractals. World bosses. Map metas. This content caters to your skill level.
Again, different content is not the same content. When I say I want easy raids, I would not be satisfied even if they built an entirely new “easy raid” from the ground up, just for me, because that’s not what I’m asking for. I’m asking to play in the current raid, just without as much risk of wiping.
And, some raids bosses are easier than others. Like dungeons. Trio is easier than sloth. VG is easier than gorseval.
True, but some of these you cannot reach unless you’ve passed previous ones or have someone carry you to them. And even so, I would like to be able to take on the more challenging bosses, like Sabetha, just with the lower risk. I want to put myself up against their mechanics and do the best I can against them, I just don’t want the entire run to fail when I mess them up.
Not all content needs to be complete-able by the lowest skill level.
No, it doesn’t need to, but if it can be, why not?
So I don’t really understand the hubbub against unique skins. Every game mode has them. Pvp, wvw, super adventure box, silverwastes, every hot map, dungeons – I could go on. Skins show other players you beat that content. Seems ok to me.
The value in “shows that a player did X content” is relatively negligible. The true value in a skin is how it looks, and liking how a skin looks has nothing to do with liking the content it’s attached to. If you want something that shows off that you accomplished something, titles or nametag flair are a MUCH better way of doing that, since that doesn’t change how your character looks. Skins should not be used for this purpose, and examples of places where ANet has gotten that wrong does not justify future cases.
It’s not unprecedented to have legendaries tied to particular game modes. For weapons, it’s pve. For backpieces, it’s pvp (and, eventually, fractals). For armor, it’s raids. And so are you “forced” to do raids to get legendary armor. Yes. Just like you are forced to do open world pve, or forced to do pvp, for the other legendaries.
And again, I am all for opening those up to alternate methods of earning them. That an item is currently tied to a single content type is a flaw, not a pillar to rest an argument on.
I won’t be getting another legendary weapon any time soon. The new HOT maps aren’t that fun for me. But I don’t demand alternate ways to get them. I don’t demand different HOT maps.
You choose apathy. That’s fine if it makes you happy, but it doesn’t mean that other players are wrong to complain about elements they do not like, in hopes that they will be fixed. If you don’t like the HoT legendaries and maps, then you are entirely within your rights to push for alternatives, and I would hope you get them.
When I see the legendary backpiece, I think, wow, that guy is good at pvp.
So this time next year, when you see me in my legendary wings, you’ll say “wow, that guy is good at pvp?” Because I assure you that I’m like B- at best.
“If you spent as much time working on [some task] as
you spend complaining about it on the forums, you’d be
done by now.”
you spend complaining about it on the forums, you’d be
done by now.”
That’s actually easily understandable. Given those weapons’ unusual graphic style, the people that were interested in them were generally the same people that were interested in SAB itself. There was no disassociation of rewards from content.
Personally I was never bothered by SAB rewards because I thought that the blue ones looked great, and that the yellow and green ones were awful looking. I got all the blue weapons I wanted and then some. If someone runs around with those I’m not in awe, I pity them. Now if the default colors had been yellow, and the rare colors had been blue and maybe red or purple, oh, there would have been a firestorm.
“If you spent as much time working on [some task] as
you spend complaining about it on the forums, you’d be
done by now.”
you spend complaining about it on the forums, you’d be
done by now.”
there were not waves of people complaining about SAB weapons
That’s actually easily understandable. Given those weapons’ unusual graphic style, the people that were interested in them were generally the same people that were interested in SAB itself. There was no disassociation of rewards from content.
Unlike Raids, in this case saying that if you weren’t interested in SAB, you weren’t interested in rewards from it was mostly true.
And as for LS, you have noticed how most of the old LS skins were, in fact, brought back as a result of players asking for them?
Agreed, the only notable SAB weapons that I ever saw the cries for were the Warhorn (you know…ugh) and the Rifle/Pistol which had a noise to them. It is still something critical to point out as those skins are literally out of reach for a lot of players. I am fairly certain they won’t take out Forsaken Thicket, that’s a zone that will stick around from here on out.
The LS items (brought back in the latest fractal update as a very rare drop, aetherized in particular) outcry died down, no one batted an eye until they brought them back, there was no constant 2 year thread about them. There’s no way we can say it was our voices that did it, the far more likely rationale was that they were brought back on a whim.
Suicidal Warrior.
Putting Perspective on Zerg Sizes since 2012. Common Suffixes for 40+ include ~Zilla and ~Train
“Seriously, just dodge.”
Putting Perspective on Zerg Sizes since 2012. Common Suffixes for 40+ include ~Zilla and ~Train
“Seriously, just dodge.”
Hey, they’re the ones that make the case for that, not me. How else could you justify wanting to keep things away from people, when it would in no way hurt you for them to have it?
Because as usual you’re misrepresenting what people are saying and it’s plain as day.
Come on man
Nalhadia – Kaineng
Personally I was never bothered by SAB rewards because I thought that the blue ones looked great, and that the yellow and green ones were awful looking. I got all the blue weapons I wanted and then some. If someone runs around with those I’m not in awe, I pity them. Now if the default colors had been yellow, and the rare colors had been blue and maybe red or purple, oh, there would have been a firestorm.
I find it amusing you pretend in one post to be advocating for the “good of the game” when another post like this so transparently shows all you care about are things you personally find shiny.
Agreed, the only notable SAB weapons that I ever saw the cries for were the Warhorn (you know…ugh) and the Rifle/Pistol which had a noise to them. It is still something critical to point out as those skins are literally out of reach for a lot of players. I am fairly certain they won’t take out Forsaken Thicket, that’s a zone that will stick around from here on out.
The thing is, though, the blue versions, at least, were never out of reach of anyone. Earning them required relatively minimal effort, and when SAB was running, even the market prices were very reasonable when compared to the other stuff we’re talking about here. Now of course they are more expensive to get, since SAB’s been completely unavailable for years, but of course people want it brought back, and comparing discontinued content to the difficulty of active content is apples and oranges.
I find it amusing you pretend in one post to be advocating for the “good of the game” when another post like this so transparently shows all you care about are things you personally find shiny.
I wasn’t saying what you wanted me to be saying. I can advocate for the good of the game while still expressing what personally interests me or not. The two are not mutually exclusive in any way. I was just expressing why I personally wasn’t bothered by the way SAB rewards were structured, because I felt it might be informative about why there was no general outcry about SAB weapons. Now if there was a serious and earnest effort to get easier access to the green and yellow weapons, I would have supported it in principle, such an effort just never existed.
“If you spent as much time working on [some task] as
you spend complaining about it on the forums, you’d be
done by now.”
you spend complaining about it on the forums, you’d be
done by now.”
stuff
I gotta admire your ability to keep at this. Futile discussions are not my thing. Good Luck.
There are two kinds of gamers, salty, and extra salty
1) Remove all enrage timers
For Vale Guardian you either remove enrage timers or you reduce other mechanics because there is no DPS check there. Gorseval has many DPS checks, breaking the walls for the updrafts, destroying the orbs etc but Vale Guardian has none of those. Without an enrage timer at VG everyone can go Healer and faceroll it. So your easy mode will be your defensive/healing gear if you remove enrage, there is no need to change anything else.
For Vale Guardian you either remove enrage timers or you reduce other mechanics because there is no DPS check there.
There is a DPS check, it’s just a soft one. You don’t have to deal a lot of DPs in a short amount of time, but you can certainly hit the enrage timer with plenty of HP to go if you aren’t pumping out damage fast enough.
Without an enrage timer at VG everyone can go Healer and faceroll it. So your easy mode will be your defensive/healing gear if you remove enrage, there is no need to change anything else.
I think almost any change to difficulty would allow a heal-tank team to become stronger, that’s inevitable, but also fine, because it’s easy mode and meant to be easy.
“If you spent as much time working on [some task] as
you spend complaining about it on the forums, you’d be
done by now.”
you spend complaining about it on the forums, you’d be
done by now.”
For Vale Guardian you either remove enrage timers or you reduce other mechanics because there is no DPS check there.
There is a DPS check, it’s just a soft one. You don’t have to deal a lot of DPs in a short amount of time, but you can certainly hit the enrage timer with plenty of HP to go if you aren’t pumping out damage fast enough.
Yes that’s the thing, there is nothing else that you need to DPS, other than the enrage timer. You can build full defensively and forget about DPS completely if there is no enrage timer. And going full defense will make it much easier, so what’s the point of extra mechanic reductions?
All I’m saying is to either remove the enrage timer or make other mechanic reductions, no reason to have both. At Vale Guardian a removal of the enrage timer, or adding a couple of minutes to the timer will make the fight considerably easier already. There is little need to go further and reduce anything else. Or reduce mechanic severity but keep the enrage timer as it is, one or the other, both make it a faceroll, not just “easy”.
I like your ideas Thaddeus, about having to beat normal raid once to unlock specific raid rewards as mini or skins. I still think that the legendary armor should stay behind normal raid (it’s legendary after all…).
And your propositions about easy raid mechanisms seem realistic, but since you’re talking about keeping wipe mechanisms, some people won’t agree with you because, you know, it’s too stressfull to wipe…
Legendary armor cannot be locked exclusively behind raid at all, because it contradicts to whole GW2 design since very beginning. There must be another source of it, or it must be tradable as very bare minimum. Otherwise this game should be named WoW.
Kiijna, Xast, Satis Ironwail, Sekhaina, Shira Forgesparkle, Sfeno, Nasibi, Tegeira, Rhonwe…
25 charracters
25 charracters
I like your ideas Thaddeus, about having to beat normal raid once to unlock specific raid rewards as mini or skins. I still think that the legendary armor should stay behind normal raid (it’s legendary after all…).
And your propositions about easy raid mechanisms seem realistic, but since you’re talking about keeping wipe mechanisms, some people won’t agree with you because, you know, it’s too stressfull to wipe…Legendary armor cannot be locked exclusively behind raid at all, because it contradicts to whole GW2 design since very beginning. There must be another source of it, or it must be tradable as very bare minimum. Otherwise this game should be named WoW.
Ad Infinitum, The Ascension …. and various other unique rewards beg to differ.
Yes that’s the thing, there is nothing else that you need to DPS, other than the enrage timer. You can build full defensively and forget about DPS completely if there is no enrage timer. And going full defense will make it much easier, so what’s the point of extra mechanic reductions?
Because part of the goal is to REMOVE build necessity. The whole point is not just to make a mode in which an elite team who exploits every loophole can have an easier time of it than they currently do. The point is to make an experience where CASUAL players with imperfect builds can get through it easier.
I mean, the three pillars of making a successful easy mode are:
- Players can bring whatever class they are most comfortable with, and so long as there is some reasonable diversity, it will work out. No specific class will be absolutely essential for a random pug.
- Players are not required to build to any specific meta. So long as their build is reasonably successful at anything (ie they aren’t trying to run a DPS spec in Nomads), they should be fine. They do not need to be zerk for DPS, Sinister/Viper for Condi, etc.
- Players are not required to perform every mechanic perfectly, a failure on a mechanic causes a setback, but never directly to a wipe. Only multiple successive failures would risk a wipe.
Now obviously if those three pillars are achieved, and easy mode is made effective for the players who need it, then the players who don’t need it can take advantage of that laxness. They can min-max on the new parameters and figure out ways to make the encounters significantly more easy than the target baseline. This is inevitable, but it is not a problem. It is factored into the reduced loot involved.
Sure, if a team of players want to gear out in tanky-healer gear and facetank their way to eventual victory, I don’t see any way to stop them, but so what? That’s their business. The loot is low enough that nobody should really care how they choose to get there. Easy mode is not intended for min-maxers, and cannot be balanced around what they might do, given the opportunity. If anything, it at least allows a zone for experimentation, since high-end raiders can try out Crazy-Eddie strategies that would never work in hard mode, like all one class, or going DPS on traditionally support classes, or other weird builds.
I don’t know that the timer itself needs to be moved, but the HP should be lowered a bit, so that the DPS check is looser.
“If you spent as much time working on [some task] as
you spend complaining about it on the forums, you’d be
done by now.”
you spend complaining about it on the forums, you’d be
done by now.”
Ad Infinitum, The Ascension …. and various other unique rewards beg to differ.
This is two legendary backpacks from two different game modes. What exactly you trying to say?
Kiijna, Xast, Satis Ironwail, Sekhaina, Shira Forgesparkle, Sfeno, Nasibi, Tegeira, Rhonwe…
25 charracters
25 charracters
This is two legendary backpacks from two different game modes. What exactly you trying to say?
He’s saying you shouldn’t be able to get the same skins from separate modes, which is a reasonable position, but I don’t think it’s what you were saying.
Nalhadia – Kaineng
He’s saying you shouldn’t be able to get the same skins from separate modes, which is a reasonable position, but I don’t think it’s what you were saying.
Yes, I was talking about legendary armor at all, not raid-specific one.
Kiijna, Xast, Satis Ironwail, Sekhaina, Shira Forgesparkle, Sfeno, Nasibi, Tegeira, Rhonwe…
25 charracters
25 charracters
I like your ideas Thaddeus, about having to beat normal raid once to unlock specific raid rewards as mini or skins. I still think that the legendary armor should stay behind normal raid (it’s legendary after all…).
And your propositions about easy raid mechanisms seem realistic, but since you’re talking about keeping wipe mechanisms, some people won’t agree with you because, you know, it’s too stressfull to wipe…Legendary armor cannot be locked exclusively behind raid at all, because it contradicts to whole GW2 design since very beginning. There must be another source of it, or it must be tradable as very bare minimum. Otherwise this game should be named WoW.
Just wait a little and you’ll probably have legendary armor from pvp too. I agree that legendary armor should’t be locked behind one game mode only. I Just don’t want some cheesy way to have it…(and easy mode raid is a cheesy way)
Ad Infinitum, The Ascension …. and various other unique rewards beg to differ.
There is 2 main differences.
1) There is different legendary back items from different sources. The specific skin are unique to a specific game mode, which is fine, but if you don’t PvP, you can still get an Legendary Back item from Fractal and we know that more will come over time to add more diversity. Ideally, all game mode will have their own Legendary Back Item.
Legendary don’t have that and won’t have that for a long long long time. If you don’t do raids, either because you don’t have the skill, you don’t have the organization, you don’t the time or you just don’t like them, well you just can’t have a legendary armor, even if you are an hardcore PvPers, or able to farm thousands of gold.
2) Legendary weapons need times, but there is not a hard skill cap on it. A casual can get one of them even if it take them 1 year of play to accumulate all the materials. The Ascension is pretty much in the same situation. Anyone can do it with enough time. Almost the same thing for Ad Infinitum. Anybody can do most of it, it’s just the last collection that need you to reach diamond at least once. Which is not that hard if you focus on that in 1 particular season. It’s a little bit more limiting than the other legendary in term of skill, but not by much.
Legendary armor on the other hand is limiting. We can’t deny that a good portion of the community just can’t get pass VG or Gorseval. They tried, and failed. This doesn’t happen with the other legendary. Which is fine if you ask me. In my ideal game, all legendary would be like that. But that’s not how gw2 worked up to this point, so why change that all of the sudden?
Thaddeauz [xQCx]- QC GUILD
Because part of the goal is to REMOVE build necessity. The whole point is not just to make a mode in which an elite team who exploits every loophole can have an easier time of it than they currently do. The point is to make an experience where CASUAL players with imperfect builds can get through it easier.
And this is the problem with your proposed easy mode. Having the perfect build is not beyond any casual player’s capability, because actually making most of the perfect builds is done through general PVE alone. Every casual player can play a Berserker Tempest or a Phalanx Strength Warrior, it’s not beyond their capabilities, nor beyond their limits.
Just wait a little and you’ll probably have legendary armor from pvp too.
Riiiight. They will make it just after they’ll finish doing legendary weapons.
…oh wait.
I agree that legendary armor should’t be locked behind one game mode only. I Just don’t want some cheesy way to have it…(and easy mode raid is a cheesy way)
That’s just your own personal prejudices speaking.
Anybody can do most of it, it’s just the last collection that need you to reach diamond at least once.
Actually you don’t need to do that in one season. Instead of one diamond, you can do sapphire two times. Or emerald four times.
Actions, not words.
Remember, remember, 15th of November
Remember, remember, 15th of November
(edited by Astralporing.1957)
Anybody can do most of it, it’s just the last collection that need you to reach diamond at least once.
Actually you don’t need to do that in one season. Instead of one diamond, you can do sapphire two times. Or emerald four times.
Are you sure? The achievement read ‘’Cross 4 league division thresholds during a PvP season.’’ You can do that achievement in more than 1 season? If so, then it’s even less limiting.
Thaddeauz [xQCx]- QC GUILD
Anybody can do most of it, it’s just the last collection that need you to reach diamond at least once.
Actually you don’t need to do that in one season. Instead of one diamond, you can do sapphire two times. Or emerald four times.
Are you sure? The achievement read ‘’Cross 4 league division thresholds during a PvP season.’’ You can do that achievement in more than 1 season? If so, then it’s even less limiting.
Yes, that’s confirmed. The description is just a bit misleading on this.
Actions, not words.
Remember, remember, 15th of November
Remember, remember, 15th of November
Yes, that’s confirmed. The description is just a bit misleading on this.
Oh thanks. Than my point is reinforced. No legendary in the game have any skill gate to it except the Legendary Armor. A casual can slowly grind at his pace any of the legendary weapons or legendary back item, but can’t do the same with Legendary Armor.
Thaddeauz [xQCx]- QC GUILD
Yes, that’s confirmed. The description is just a bit misleading on this.
Oh thanks. Than my point is reinforced. No legendary in the game have any skill gate to it except the Legendary Armor. A casual can slowly grind at his pace any of the legendary weapons or legendary back item, but can’t do the same with Legendary Armor.
I would argue that if you have the time to commit over a year to a legendary, then you can learn how to do raids.
I would argue that if you have the time to commit over a year to a legendary, then you can learn how to do raids.
And you would be wrong. Which has been explained many times already in detail in multiple threads.
Actions, not words.
Remember, remember, 15th of November
Remember, remember, 15th of November
I like your ideas Thaddeus, about having to beat normal raid once to unlock specific raid rewards as mini or skins. I still think that the legendary armor should stay behind normal raid (it’s legendary after all…).
And your propositions about easy raid mechanisms seem realistic, but since you’re talking about keeping wipe mechanisms, some people won’t agree with you because, you know, it’s too stressfull to wipe…Legendary armor cannot be locked exclusively behind raid at all, because it contradicts to whole GW2 design since very beginning. There must be another source of it, or it must be tradable as very bare minimum. Otherwise this game should be named WoW.
Sure. A different kind of Legendary Armor can come from other type of content. A completely different skin from completely different content. Who says they won’t do that once we get the full Envoy armor?
Sure. A different kind of Legendary Armor can come from other type of content. A completely different skin from completely different content. Who says they won’t do that once we get the full Envoy armor?
Anet. You really think they are going to make a second set of legendary armor (which was not promised or even hinted at) when they cancel work on Legendary Weapons (which were not only promised, but actually paid for)?
Somehow i don’t think so.
Actions, not words.
Remember, remember, 15th of November
Remember, remember, 15th of November
Sure. A different kind of Legendary Armor can come from other type of content. A completely different skin from completely different content. Who says they won’t do that once we get the full Envoy armor?
Anet. You really think they are going to make a second set of legendary armor (which was not promised or even hinted at) when they cancel work on Legendary Weapons (which were not only promised, but actually paid for)?
Somehow i don’t think so.
Maybe because Envoy armor is still too far away? For all we know Tier 2 Envoy will require Raid 2 and Tier 3 will require Raid 3. Both with 3 full wings. I certainly hope that is NOT the case because otherwise we’ll see Envoy Armor in 2018, or they might even scrap it before it’s done. One way or another nothing is confirmed on what will happen.
I would argue that if you have the time to commit over a year to a legendary, then you can learn how to do raids.
And you would be wrong. Which has been explained many times already in detail in multiple threads.
I’ve posted my reply in other threads, but I think it’s worth posting here.
So the primary response I get is “I can’t get commit to raiding for large amounts of continuous time.” I don’t really buy this response.
I think 1-hour chunks is plenty of time to make significant progress in learning how to raid. And we’re talking about making progress over a year. It’s been 5 months – we aren’t even halfway there yet.
And I seriously doubt the complainers are even putting in significant amounts of time. It probably takes hundreds of hours to get a legendary weapon. Are people even trying to raid? Or do they give up after a couple of attempts?
Join a guild that does raid teaching runs. Join pug groups. Have someone explain exactly what your role is in the fight. Know what gear you need. This isn’t pvp — there are several scripted mechanics that you can anticipate and overcome with practice.
All my “first kills” in wing 2 were in pug groups. Just last week, I joined several wing 1 groups that had first timers. Guess what? We beat them. It took less than an hour.
You actually have it easier now, because more people know what they’re doing. So you only need to concentrate on your personal performance, and not worry about anyone else’s mistakes.
You don’t like raiding? Fine. That’s ok. You don’t need to like everything in this game. But stop coming up with excuses why you can’t beat the raid. You can. You just need to put in the effort.
I would argue that if you have the time to commit over a year to a legendary, then you can learn how to do raids.
Take time to accumulate what you need isn’t the same as having a skill gate. For exemple, if it take about 200 hours to craft a legendary item. An hardcore player could do that in like 5 weeks by playing 40 hours per week. But a casual playing only 5 hours per week will be able to get it in 40 weeks. It’s not a big commitment really, he just play a bit each week, but he will still have a long term goal and frankly that represent most players in gw2 going after a Legendary. Either because you only play 5 hours per week in the game or because you only put 5 hours per week toward your legendary, while the rest of your time you play something else in the game that doesn’t really help you toward your legendary. You can’t do that with raid.
Again. IMO all legendary should need a heavy commitment. Either by asking to be good in several portion of the game or to master one specific portion of the game. PvP legendary should ask you to be Dragon in Diamon League, WvW should ask you to have more than 1 thousand kills or at least a rank of several hundreds, it should ask you to go through raid, etc.
But Anet didn’t do that for any of the Legendary item so far. Either you put legendary behind heavy commitment or you don’t. Either you ask for a skill gate or you don’t. If all of your Legendary don’t ask that, except one, that just weird design. Especially since it’s the only version of Legendary armor in the game. I wouldn’t be against it if that was just the skin that was lock behind raid.
Thaddeauz [xQCx]- QC GUILD