Easy mode raids
Why? What would the point be when Raids aren’t that hard to do currently? Or this about wanting rewards of Raids without putting in the time and effort? What would easy mode provide the game that doesn’t already exist? And you have to remember Raids were and are designed for a specific target audience who asked for Anet to provide them with content tailored to their needs of challenging group content that takes coordination.
Already in the game. Escort,trio,MO.
Can we haz some?
Only if you cannot progress achievements/collections or get loot from the boss chests which includes legendary insights.
pff casual….
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/dungeons/The-real-issue-with-raiding-as-a-raider/first
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/dungeons/A-Plea-for-a-Raid-Story-Mode/first
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/dungeons/The-raids-need-an-easy-story-mode/page/5#post6546356
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/dungeons/Raids-dont-need-an-easy-mode/first#post6534767
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/dungeons/Easy-mode-for-Raids
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/dungeons/Baby-raid-mode-ever-being-a-reality
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/dungeons/Raid-Normal-Hard-Mode/first
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/dungeons/Raids-in-GW2/first#post6427724
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/dungeons/Making-tiers-in-Raids-like-fractals/page/4#post6385098
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/dungeons/Raid-problem-solutions/first#post6389222
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/dungeons/An-issue-raids-and-their-accesibility/first
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/dungeons/Practice-Raid-mode
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/dungeons/turn-raid-encounters-into-fractals
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/dungeons/Raids-with-STORY-MODE
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/dungeons/Suggestion-Raid-Difficulty-Settings-Merged
maybe learn how the game works?
You know, the responses I read to this OP question are exactly why I posted my thread. There is ABSOLUTELY nothing wrong with raids that have multiple levels of difficulty. Having Story mode raids that award achievements and have less rewards that a Hard Mode version would NOT discourage the community. The Legendary gear should NOT be accessible in a SM raid; I agree whole hardheartedly.
However, newer players without a raid guild, simply cannot get into the raids and learn because the COMMUNITY is blocking good players with KP and LI requirements. Having the same mechanics in a toned down manner would allow new talent to develop which I don’t think that is such a bad thing. Plus they already set that expectation by having 4 tiers for fractals. So any argument about not putting in the effort for the same reward is simply a load of bull. I run T4 fractals and I think the effort required at each tier is pretty much similar… especially if you are in a T1 with a bunch of new ppl . Its the mechanic difficulty that increases as such player skill develops. Raids, as they are right now, don’t develop skill — they simply cater to the elitists in this game who will kick you for not having 100 LIs that are impossible to get unless someone is willing to teach.
So please, in the future save your snide comments about time and effort, and your spam links of forum threads etc. Instead, offer less experienced raiders kindness and solid advice on what to do until ANet realizes they are leaving a good group of players behind.
However, newer players without a raid guild, simply cannot get into the raids and learn because the COMMUNITY is blocking good players with KP and LI requirements.
First, you should read some of the other threads on the topic. The responses to this wouldn’t be like this if the OP also read the other threads. You know in those threads there was lot of discussion on the subject.
However, I’ll stay on this particular part. How is an easy mode Raid going to help with KP and LI requirements? Are you saying that the easy mode Raids will award kill achievements and LI? Because you said:
The Legendary gear should NOT be accessible in a SM raid; I agree whole hardheartedly.
Which is it?
Why? What would the point be when Raids aren’t that hard to do currently? Or this about wanting rewards of Raids without putting in the time and effort? What would easy mode provide the game that doesn’t already exist? And you have to remember Raids were and are designed for a specific target audience who asked for Anet to provide them with content tailored to their needs of challenging group content that takes coordination.
I would like to be able to join raids and put time and effort to learn without being kicked for being too inexperienced.
5x Warrior, 5x Ranger, 4x Elementalist, 4x Engineer,
4x Necromancer, 3x Mesmer, 4x Guardian, 4x Thief, 4 Revenant
4x Necromancer, 3x Mesmer, 4x Guardian, 4x Thief, 4 Revenant
maybe learn how the game works?
I would love to learn how the raid bosses work if the groups let me join them.
5x Warrior, 5x Ranger, 4x Elementalist, 4x Engineer,
4x Necromancer, 3x Mesmer, 4x Guardian, 4x Thief, 4 Revenant
4x Necromancer, 3x Mesmer, 4x Guardian, 4x Thief, 4 Revenant
maybe learn how the game works?
I would love to learn how the raid bosses work if the groups let me join them.
Well join a learning group aka training run group. Exp group is not for learning is just to get the boss down with exp people.
Why? What would the point be when Raids aren’t that hard to do currently? Or this about wanting rewards of Raids without putting in the time and effort? What would easy mode provide the game that doesn’t already exist? And you have to remember Raids were and are designed for a specific target audience who asked for Anet to provide them with content tailored to their needs of challenging group content that takes coordination.
I would like to be able to join raids and put time and effort to learn without being kicked for being too inexperienced.
Then I have great news for you! You can join raids and put in time and effort to learn without being kicked for being too inexperienced! Sounds too good to be true doesn’t it? Well, I assure you that it isn’t. It’s really simple.
All you have to do is either join inexperienced groups, join a guild that offers training runs and helps players that are new to raids, or make 9 friends and learn the raids with them.
There are whole communities in the raid world that are dedicated to bringing in new players and teaching them the ropes. You just need to find one and join up with them.
Joining an experienced group as someone who is inexperienced (esp when it isn’t a training run) is poor etiquette on your part. Expecting to join an experienced group to take someone who is inexperienced and a complete random is completely unrealistic.
maybe learn how the game works?
I would love to learn how the raid bosses work if the groups let me join them.
Great news! There are tons of videos and guides out there that will teach you how the bosses work. You can then take that knowledge and start with training groups, and build from there. Just having the knowledge beforehand, of what to expect, gives you a leg up on others.
maybe learn how the game works?
I would love to learn how the raid bosses work if the groups let me join them.
How do you suppose the active raiders learned it? Born with the abilities? Granted by a divine intervention? Transferred to them with alien technology?
maybe learn how the game works?
I would love to learn how the raid bosses work if the groups let me join them.
How do you suppose the active raiders learned it? Born with the abilities? Granted by a divine intervention? Transferred to them with alien technology?
Ohh ohh its obviously alien technology.
Git gud…………….
maybe learn how the game works?
I would love to learn how the raid bosses work if the groups let me join them.
- Guild Recruitment, on Reddit — includes raiding guilds and LFGuild.
- The Raides Inn, A Discord Community
- LFGuild on these very forums
John Smith: “you should kill monsters, because killing monsters is awesome.”
(edited by Illconceived Was Na.9781)
Already in the game. Escort,trio,MO.
Actually, I’d add almost all bosses to that list :P
Warning! This post may contain traces of irony, sarcasm and peanuts.
There is no loyalty without betrayal. -Ann Smiley
There is no loyalty without betrayal. -Ann Smiley
I love this. Joke topic from 3 weeks ago is still on the front page. Keep it!
maybe learn how the game works?
I would love to learn how the raid bosses work if the groups let me join them.
How do you suppose the active raiders learned it? Born with the abilities? Granted by a divine intervention? Transferred to them with alien technology?
Ohh ohh its obviously alien technology.
It would explain the problems sitting down for a prolonged period of time.
I love this. Joke topic from 3 weeks ago is still on the front page. Keep it!
Perhaps, just perhaps it is a joke only to you.
Actions, not words.
Remember, remember, 15th of November
Remember, remember, 15th of November
I love this. Joke topic from 3 weeks ago is still on the front page. Keep it!
It’s still on the front page because it is still an issue for a lot of people – even when people go out of their way to ridicule or belittle others for even bringing the topic up.
At this point, most of what can be said about this has been said – but the topic remains the most discussed point regarding raids here, on reddit and on pretty much every media and fan site. That alone shows that some kind of change is needed in how raids are developed.
And, yes, there is a very vocal group opposed to that kind of action. But the solutions proposed (story mote, multiple modes) wouldn’t take ANYTHING away from those players. Most of the arguments against story or easy modes are selfish ones, plain and simple.
It will probably be a while before we see the next raid wing. Hopefully Anet takes that time to come up with a real solution to this issue (which, no matter how many times people try to mock or belittle it, is still a real issue for many).
Just because a subset of players are asking for something, doesn’t mean that it should be given to them. Raids were designed solely for those that wanted challenging group content. “Easier” encounters were added to ease players in such as the escort. It wasn’t designed for those that want an easy mode. Just like how WvW wasn’t designed for the PvE player.
(edited by Ayrilana.1396)
I love this. Joke topic from 3 weeks ago is still on the front page. Keep it!
It’s still on the front page because it is still an issue for a lot of people – even when people go out of their way to ridicule or belittle others for even bringing the topic up.
At this point, most of what can be said about this has been said – but the topic remains the most discussed point regarding raids here, on reddit and on pretty much every media and fan site. That alone shows that some kind of change is needed in how raids are developed.
And, yes, there is a very vocal group opposed to that kind of action. But the solutions proposed (story mote, multiple modes) wouldn’t take ANYTHING away from those players. Most of the arguments against story or easy modes are selfish ones, plain and simple.
It will probably be a while before we see the next raid wing. Hopefully Anet takes that time to come up with a real solution to this issue (which, no matter how many times people try to mock or belittle it, is still a real issue for many).
In my opinion, the reason we see these “troll” posts is because the constant stream of “we need EZ mode raids” are essentially the gw2 forum equivalent of a Facebook “bump”. All it does it bring an existing thread back to the forefront with no value added.
In that case, the appropriate response is just for someone to link any of the hundreds of pages of posts that this topic has already been discussed on. If after reading, the poster still feels like they can bring some value to the conversation, by all means add it in. The problem here is that we’ve been going in circles for over a year.
To be 100% truthful, keeping these posts at the top of the forum with a “bump” post doesn’t give ANET any more incentive to take your suggestion. The conversation does, and the conversation is stale at this point.
(edited by ButterPeanut.9746)
In my opinion, the reason we see these “troll” posts is because the constant stream of “we need EZ mode raids” are essentially the gw2 forum equivalent of a Facebook “bump”. All it does it bring an existing thread back to the forefront with no value added.
In that case, the appropriate response is just for someone to link any of the hundreds of pages of posts that this topic has already been discussed on. If after reading, the poster still feels like they can bring some value to the conversation, by all means add it in. The problem here is that we’ve been going in circles for over a year.
To be 100% truthful, keep these posts at the top of the forum with a “bump” post doesn’t give ANET any more incentive to take your suggestion. The conversation does, and the conversation is stale at this point.
You are oversimplifying the issue. People post because this is something they feel passionate about – not simply to “bump” a topic.
Additionally, we see new people join the conversation on a regular basis. Even when these threads have died away or, in very rare situations, been closed, they only resurface a few days later by someone new to the conversation who didnt see the NOVELs of text already posted on this issue.
Personally, I have consciously avoided posting too much in any of these threads for the past few weeks because I felt I was dominating too much of the conversation. To no surprise, the topic remained relevant, even with no new raids or raid related announcements from Anet.
People can try to play this topic off as trollish or unimportant or “its just people bumping posts” all they want – reality is, it isn’t going away because it is still something a group of players want in the game. It doesn’t take anything away from the challenge of what is there now. It adds replayability and extends the experience to more players. It really is something that is needed.
Additionally, we see new people join the conversation on a regular basis. Even when these threads have died away or, in very rare situations, been closed, they only resurface a few days later by someone new to the conversation who didnt see the NOVELs of text already posted on this issue.
People can try to play this topic off as trollish or unimportant or “its just people bumping posts” all they want – reality is, it isn’t going away because it is still something a group of players want in the game. It doesn’t take anything away from the challenge of what is there now. It adds replayability and extends the experience to more players. It really is something that is needed.
This is my point exactly. By “trolling” posts I didn’t mean the ones who are asking for EZ mode raids, I meant the responses to them that are like “haha git gud, EZ”.
For a new player, it is fine if they have these same concerns and have a post. My point is that when this occurs we don’t really need another thread that is 30 pages long. A simple post with “Hey this has been discussed on the forum very heavily, here are some links to those threads” would suffice. Then after reading, if that new person feels they can add some value to the conversation, then sure feel free to keep adding comments. Otherwise, the post with the links could be the end of it.
My point is that having new people, old people, etc constantly repeat the same arguments back and forth with no value added doesn’t get us anywhere. It certainly doesn’t give ANET any more reason to meet the needs of the people asking for change.
They know this is a concern. They know that the number of players it affects is constantly changing. We really don’t need to have the same conversation today as we did 1 year ago. A simple link to it and “please feel free to add comments if you feel your thoughts haven’t been addressed by the previous discussion” should be enough.
I’m not trying to silence anyone. I’m trying to keep the discussion relevant with new value added/thoughts. Not to keep it around just to say “me too”.
Just because a subset of players are asking for something, doesn’t mean that it should be given to them.
True. At the same time however, just because some people speak against it, doesn’t mean it’s a bad idea.
It wasn’t designed for those that want an easy mode.
Well, duh. If it was designed for them, they wouldn’t be asking for easy mode, would they.
We really don’t need to have the same conversation today as we did 1 year ago.
But we do – if only to send a message that everything in those past conversations is still as relevant as before, and the topic won’t go away on its own until something is done about it.
Actions, not words.
Remember, remember, 15th of November
Remember, remember, 15th of November
(edited by Astralporing.1957)
This is my point exactly. By “trolling” posts I didn’t mean the ones who are asking for EZ mode raids, I meant the responses to them that are like “haha git gud, EZ”.
For a new player, it is fine if they have these same concerns and have a post. My point is that when this occurs we don’t really need another thread that is 30 pages long. A simple post with “Hey this has been discussed on the forum very heavily, here are some links to those threads” would suffice. Then after reading, if that new person feels they can add some value to the conversation, then sure feel free to keep adding comments. Otherwise, the post with the links could be the end of it.
My point is that having new people, old people, etc constantly repeat the same arguments back and forth with no value added doesn’t get us anywhere. It certainly doesn’t give ANET any more reason to meet the needs of the people asking for change.
They know this is a concern. They know that the number of players it affects is constantly changing. We really don’t need to have the same conversation today as we did 1 year ago. A simple link to it and “please feel free to add comments if you feel your thoughts haven’t been addressed by the previous discussion” should be enough.
I’m not trying to silence anyone. I’m trying to keep the discussion relevant with new value added/thoughts. Not to keep it around just to say “me too”.
I actually respect this point of view – and it is another reason I haven’t been active in these threads the past few weeks.
The issue I have is when people (not you) try to play it off as a dead topic because they think it has somehow been resolved – or by downplaying it and using a lack of recent posts as evidence of that. Or, even worse, by mocking and belittling the people who bring the topic up (which happens WAY too much in these threads).
It is still a very relevant topic, even with pretty much every point/counterpoint having been made. I have some trust that ArenaNet sees and understands that, but I also know that they tend to ignore topics that aren’t actively being discussed here, on reddit, etc.
I do agree that there needs to be a good way to bring new participants up to speed on the topic without rehashing every argument every single time.
@Blaeys.3102
Just because some new player to raiding open a topic every few weeks doesnt mean it is relevant, without metrics.
Because a player that joins the game and dont care about raids wont post. A player who joins the game and enjoy raids the way they are wont post either.
So only people that want to change raids will open topics about a raid change, so this is why its not a relevant metric to use.
So “Oh look this topic again by a player so this proves that raid need easy mode!”, no its prove nothing.
And seeing how A-Net is handling other contents ( pvp and wvw ) and changing it in a way that you cant get it without actually investing in the gamemode ( looking at pvp dailies and wvw armor/weapons/backpack). I am pretty confident that there will not be an easy mode raids ever.
I can attest first hand that it is EXTREMELY difficult to discuss this topic on the forums or reddit. You will be attacked. You will be mocked. You may even (as I did last year) get death threats.
And I agree with Onizuka on one point – the simple existence of these threads isn’t reason enough to make one argument stronger than the other. At the same time, there is no good reason to shut down the dialogue – especially as new people enter the conversation.
To the point about other game modes. you cannot really compare pvp and pve in terms of scaling difficulty. All a developer can do in PVP is try their best to match people with comparable skill together in either leagues or ladders (which is EXACTLY what Anet tries to do for both PvP and WvW).
In PvE, where the opponent is the AI, that kind of matchmaking comes from difficulty tiers – matching player skill, dedication, etc to the tier that best fits their playstyle and skill. True, you can use different game content to accomplish this, but when you do, you might as well be designing completely different games. When you do that, you introduce exclusion and ego into the mix in a way that segments and DAMAGES the game’s community.
Up until the introduction of raids, this is something Anet clearly understood very well – and something they could fix with tiered levels of difficulty inside raids.
Up until the introduction of raids, this is something Anet clearly understood very well – and something they could fix with tiered levels of difficulty inside raids.
So lets discuss this statement.
You say that A-Net understood that you need tiered difficult until raids were introduced, Right?
So just explain to me, because i missed it, where is the Hard Mode of ascalon catacombs ?
Where is the hard mode shadow of behemoth ?
And where is the easy mode of Arah p4 and TA Aetherpath ?
So outside of fractals everything in the game always had only 1 mode. And should stay that way.
And before you say we have story dungeon and explorable mode.
Well we have scort on w4 and mathias in w2. The same comparison ( because story and explorable dont offer the same encounters, dont offer the same rewards so its not tiered difficuly dungeons).
Up until the introduction of raids, this is something Anet clearly understood very well – and something they could fix with tiered levels of difficulty inside raids.
So lets discuss this statement.
You say that A-Net understood that you need tiered difficult until raids were introduced, Right?
So just explain to me, because i missed it, where is the Hard Mode of ascalon catacombs ?
Where is the hard mode shadow of behemoth ?
And where is the easy mode of Arah p4 and TA Aetherpath ?
So outside of fractals everything in the game always had only 1 mode. And should stay that way.
And before you say we have story dungeon and explorable mode.
Well we have scort on w4 and mathias in w2. The same comparison ( because story and explorable dont offer the same encounters, dont offer the same rewards so its not tiered difficuly dungeons).
It is about degrees and mathematic-based skill walls. None of the examples you cite above utilize any kind of mathematical barriers to success – with the possible exception of Simin during the brief period where that fight was overtuned (but even that was adjusted). As a result, there are no builds that cannot realistically overcome any of those fights, even in unskilled hands. It just makes the fights longer.
Regardless of how many videos you show of skilled players using off meta classes to beat the fights, the same isnt true in raids. Yes, the enrage timers and burst damage phases in the raids are not as strict as they could be, but they still exist – and help define the difficulty of the fights. And, for the record, I think that is fine in the more difficult modes.
The most difficult modes should be there for those looking for the challenge. That has never been in question as far as I am concerned. The inclusion of lesser difficulty modes would be there for those players who just want to experience the content without the dedication or with the professions they enjoy (and, of course, the rewards should be considerably less than what is given in harder modes).
Up until the introduction of raids, this is something Anet clearly understood very well – and something they could fix with tiered levels of difficulty inside raids.
So lets discuss this statement.
You say that A-Net understood that you need tiered difficult until raids were introduced, Right?
So just explain to me, because i missed it, where is the Hard Mode of ascalon catacombs ?
Where is the hard mode shadow of behemoth ?
And where is the easy mode of Arah p4 and TA Aetherpath ?
So outside of fractals everything in the game always had only 1 mode. And should stay that way.
And before you say we have story dungeon and explorable mode.
Well we have scort on w4 and mathias in w2. The same comparison ( because story and explorable dont offer the same encounters, dont offer the same rewards so its not tiered difficuly dungeons).It is about degrees and mathematic-based skill walls. None of the examples you cite above utilize any kind of mathematical barriers to success – with the possible exception of Simin during the brief period where that fight was overtuned (but even that was adjusted). As a result, there are no builds that cannot realistically overcome any of those fights, even in unskilled hands. It just makes the fights longer.
Regardless of how many videos you show of skilled players using off meta classes to beat the fights, the same isnt true in raids. Yes, the enrage timers and burst damage phases in the raids are not as strict as they could be, but they still exist – and help define the difficulty of the fights. And, for the record, I think that is fine in the more difficult modes.
The most difficult modes should be there for those looking for the challenge. That has never been in question as far as I am concerned. The inclusion of lesser difficulty modes would be there for those players who just want to experience the content without the dedication or with the professions they enjoy (and, of course, the rewards should be considerably less than what is given in harder modes).
With “mathematical barriers to success” you mean the enrage? There is only two bosses that you cant fight then for 10 hours, Sabetha and Gorseval, both on wing 1, so besides this two encounters out of 13 encounters you cant go on with full nomads, all the other 11 encounters you can. (But even sab and gors are really lenient in what builds you can bring ). So no build limiting as you point.
With “mathematical barriers to success” you mean the enrage? There is only two bosses that you cant fight then for 10 hours, Sabetha and Gorseval, both on wing 1, so besides this two encounters out of 13 encounters you cant go on with full nomads, all the other 11 encounters you can. (But even sab and gors are really lenient in what builds you can bring ). So no build limiting as you point.
Again, it is not a black or white, yes or no situation. It is about realistic degrees. And it isnt limited to enrage timers. It may come in the form of burst damage phases (short periods where much higher damage is needed to avoid a wipe or extreme negative situation) or other similar mechanics. As it stands, the fight is WAY more forgiving with groups that bring the “right” professions (and again, that is how it should be at the highest difficulty levels), and exponentially more frustrating for groups that do not (again, not absolutes – degrees).
Im just looking for a way for the “other” players to realistically (very important word) enjoy the content.
(edited by Blaeys.3102)
With “mathematical barriers to success” you mean the enrage? There is only two bosses that you cant fight then for 10 hours, Sabetha and Gorseval, both on wing 1, so besides this two encounters out of 13 encounters you cant go on with full nomads, all the other 11 encounters you can. (But even sab and gors are really lenient in what builds you can bring ). So no build limiting as you point.
Again, it is not a black or white, yes or no situation. It is about realistic degrees. And it isnt limited to enrage timers. It may come in the form of burst damage phases (short periods where much higher damage is needed to avoid a wipe or extreme negative situation) or other similar mechanics. As it stands, the fight is WAY more forgiving with groups that bring the “right” professions (and again, that is how it should be at the highest difficulty levels), and exponentially more frustrating for groups that do not (again, not absolutes – degrees).
Im just looking for a way for the “other” players to realistically (very important word) enjoy the content.
They wont enjoy the content by adding easy mode.
You know that topics about dungeons were really good and we dont get the same feeling from fractals? Wondered why?
Fractal are instanced content where you fight mobs, then fight bosses, with some mechanic between then ( like the snow torch run in Chaos ). Just like dungeons.
But why players dont get the same feeling from fractals? Because fractals is tiered content, and dungeons are not. And by not being tiered content they feel a lot more organic.
Raids are the same without tiered content they feel more organic and epic, they feel like they are part of the world of GW. If you make it tiered you just remove it and then it become 10 man fractals.
You are oversimplifying the issue. People post because this is something they feel passionate about – not simply to “bump” a topic.
With all due respect, people who are asking for easy mode raids couldn’t possibly be passionate about them. It would be the same as saying “I’m a huge Ferrari fan, I only wish they made cars at 20k price tag, preferably vans because I have a large family”. You can’t be passionate about something when you’re missing it’s whole purpose.
People who are passionate about raids are those who play them on a regular basis. That’s why we play them, because we enjoy the content and have fun experiencing it. The rest may be passionate about many things, but raids aren’t one of them.
You are oversimplifying the issue. People post because this is something they feel passionate about – not simply to “bump” a topic.
Yes. Because someone posting (and I quote the opening post):
Can we haz some?
is not to bump the topic but to start a discussion and because they are passionate about it. There ARE threads that offer something on the subject like someone asking something actually worth discussing, like this one: https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/dungeons/Raid-learning-Issue-question-for-dev/first
talking about an automated system in Raids. I believe that suggestion has been shown to have major issues but there WAS an actual discussion there.
This thread? This one is just a troll one for the bump and nothing else.
Yes. Because someone posting (and I quote the opening post):
Can we haz some?
Well, no, that one was self-admitted troll that seemed to be anti-easymode in attitude and didn’t believe the topic would hold. Joke’s on him – if he didn’t want to see this topic returning, he shouldn’t have started it. And the best part is that the discussion wouldn’t have started if the other anti-easymode posters did not try to respond to him.
So, again, this wasn’t the bump you speak of. It was an attempt to ridicule the topic that backfired.
Actions, not words.
Remember, remember, 15th of November
Remember, remember, 15th of November
(edited by Astralporing.1957)
Yes. Because someone posting (and I quote the opening post):
Can we haz some?
Well, no, that one was self-admitted troll that seemed to be anti-easymode in attitude and didn’t believe the topic would hold. Joke’s on him – if he didn’t want to see this topic returning, he shouldn’t have started it. And the best part is that the discussion wouldn’t have started if the other anti-easymode posters did not try to respond to him.
So, again, this wasn’t the bump you speak of. It was an attempt to ridicule the topic that backfired.
You mean, my effort to make a zero effort post and see how many people will perpetuate it backfired? It seemed like it worked just fine, thanks.
I’m not trolling, but it is amusing to see the clamor generated with 3 little words.
Oh back on topic. Easy mode raids, can we haz some?
Oh back on topic. Easy mode raids, can we haz some?
Hopefully yes.
Actions, not words.
Remember, remember, 15th of November
Remember, remember, 15th of November
But why players dont get the same feeling from fractals? Because fractals is tiered content, and dungeons are not. And by not being tiered content they feel a lot more organic.
There are more reasons.
For example the rewards are identical. Why should I bother and play nightmare or chaos when I can also do snowblind, vulcano or jade?
Fractals are 2012 content. Most players have also stopped to play GW1. Fractals are as old as some GW1 content. Some new levels might improve the experience, but its still “the same”.
Fractals are also ~10-15 minute content. That’s a very limited amount. An 2 hour fractal doesn’t belong into this system.
But honestly I don’t think the whole debate makes any sense. Anet has shown that they don’t like casual groups. Players should either play solo open world or raids. There is no in between. If you are more casual and hope for teamcontent I’d recommend to buy another MMO and leave GW2 behind. Anet won’t change. It was the same with dungeons in 2012 which were also a bit more on the difficult side and left a lot of former GW1 players behind because there was nothing else to play together.
Since then Anet has made very clear that GW2 is mostly open world solo content and maybe a bit raids for the hardcore-teamcontent crowd. They give a kitten about casual guilds.
I can attest first hand that it is EXTREMELY difficult to discuss this topic on the forums or reddit. You will be attacked. You will be mocked. You may even (as I did last year) get death threats.
And I agree with Onizuka on one point – the simple existence of these threads isn’t reason enough to make one argument stronger than the other. At the same time, there is no good reason to shut down the dialogue – especially as new people enter the conversation.
To the point about other game modes. you cannot really compare pvp and pve in terms of scaling difficulty. All a developer can do in PVP is try their best to match people with comparable skill together in either leagues or ladders (which is EXACTLY what Anet tries to do for both PvP and WvW).
In PvE, where the opponent is the AI, that kind of matchmaking comes from difficulty tiers – matching player skill, dedication, etc to the tier that best fits their playstyle and skill. True, you can use different game content to accomplish this, but when you do, you might as well be designing completely different games. When you do that, you introduce exclusion and ego into the mix in a way that segments and DAMAGES the game’s community.
Up until the introduction of raids, this is something Anet clearly understood very well – and something they could fix with tiered levels of difficulty inside raids.
Maybe that your idea isn’t well-received here, on the forums, or by anet is evidence that your idea isn’t very good?
But why players dont get the same feeling from fractals? Because fractals is tiered content, and dungeons are not. And by not being tiered content they feel a lot more organic.
There are more reasons.
For example the rewards are identical. Why should I bother and play nightmare or chaos when I can also do snowblind, vulcano or jade?
Fractals are 2012 content. Most players have also stopped to play GW1. Fractals are as old as some GW1 content. Some new levels might improve the experience, but its still “the same”.
Fractals are also ~10-15 minute content. That’s a very limited amount. An 2 hour fractal doesn’t belong into this system.But honestly I don’t think the whole debate makes any sense. Anet has shown that they don’t like casual groups. Players should either play solo open world or raids. There is no in between. If you are more casual and hope for teamcontent I’d recommend to buy another MMO and leave GW2 behind. Anet won’t change. It was the same with dungeons in 2012 which were also a bit more on the difficult side and left a lot of former GW1 players behind because there was nothing else to play together.
Since then Anet has made very clear that GW2 is mostly open world solo content and maybe a bit raids for the hardcore-teamcontent crowd. They give a kitten about casual guilds.
How there is no mid ground? Fractals are the mid ground, they have updates. And they are guild friendly.
I was not saying fractals are bad, they are not, but they are not organic like raids because they have tiered levels. If we only had one level of each fractals it would be much more organic, instead of having an easy nightmare at 25 and a hard at 100CM, we would have someting like urban batleground being an easy fractal and nightmare a hard one without tiers, they would have a much better feeling to it, like they make part of GW2 world
How there is no mid ground? Fractals are the mid ground, they have updates. And they are guild friendly.
Fractals are mostly 2012/2013 content. Since then Anet has afaik only introduced 2 new fractals. In 4 years. Even a guild which plays twice a year (….) should have done them now.
Especially casual groups don’t tend to repeat content hundreds of times, that’s more a hardcoreplayer thing.
But why players dont get the same feeling from fractals? Because fractals is tiered content, and dungeons are not. And by not being tiered content they feel a lot more organic.
There are more reasons.
For example the rewards are identical. Why should I bother and play nightmare or chaos when I can also do snowblind, vulcano or jade?
Fractals are 2012 content. Most players have also stopped to play GW1. Fractals are as old as some GW1 content. Some new levels might improve the experience, but its still “the same”.
Fractals are also ~10-15 minute content. That’s a very limited amount. An 2 hour fractal doesn’t belong into this system.But honestly I don’t think the whole debate makes any sense. Anet has shown that they don’t like casual groups. Players should either play solo open world or raids. There is no in between. If you are more casual and hope for teamcontent I’d recommend to buy another MMO and leave GW2 behind. Anet won’t change. It was the same with dungeons in 2012 which were also a bit more on the difficult side and left a lot of former GW1 players behind because there was nothing else to play together.
Since then Anet has made very clear that GW2 is mostly open world solo content and maybe a bit raids for the hardcore-teamcontent crowd. They give a kitten about casual guilds.How there is no mid ground? Fractals are the mid ground, they have updates. And they are guild friendly.
I was not saying fractals are bad, they are not, but they are not organic like raids because they have tiered levels. If we only had one level of each fractals it would be much more organic, instead of having an easy nightmare at 25 and a hard at 100CM, we would have someting like urban batleground being an easy fractal and nightmare a hard one without tiers, they would have a much better feeling to it, like they make part of GW2 world
There’s no mid ground because they were not designed, nor intended, to be that way. Some concessions have been made to ease newer players into encounters such as the w3 escort but raids are for those that want a challenge.
Nonsense. You can say dungeons are the abandoned middle ground (which they are), but fractals are getting updates recently. So that’s the obvious middle ground aimed for players who lack the time/dedication to do raids but seek a challenge greater than the completely casual open world. It doesn’t matter if the guild “would have done the two new fractals”. The guilds have done W4, too. It doesn’t mean they stopped playing these. It is impossible to create new content with the speed the players exhaust it, so every content is meant to be replayed over and over again, no matter how casual the target audience for it.
Nonsense. You can say dungeons are the abandoned middle ground (which they are), but fractals are getting updates recently.
Yeah, and every update shows that devs do not think of them as the middle ground either. Jockum has a point here. Anet, when designing group content, does not balance it around average players, but is thinking more in terms of the hardcore crowd. I’m pretty sure that any new fractals we’ll get will be around (or above) Nightmare level, not around, say, Ascalon , Harpies or Underwater ones. And any reworks they will do (if they’ll do any) will only increase the difficulty of reworked fractals.
I can attest first hand that it is EXTREMELY difficult to discuss this topic on the forums or reddit. You will be attacked. You will be mocked. You may even (as I did last year) get death threats.
And I agree with Onizuka on one point – the simple existence of these threads isn’t reason enough to make one argument stronger than the other. At the same time, there is no good reason to shut down the dialogue – especially as new people enter the conversation.
To the point about other game modes. you cannot really compare pvp and pve in terms of scaling difficulty. All a developer can do in PVP is try their best to match people with comparable skill together in either leagues or ladders (which is EXACTLY what Anet tries to do for both PvP and WvW).
In PvE, where the opponent is the AI, that kind of matchmaking comes from difficulty tiers – matching player skill, dedication, etc to the tier that best fits their playstyle and skill. True, you can use different game content to accomplish this, but when you do, you might as well be designing completely different games. When you do that, you introduce exclusion and ego into the mix in a way that segments and DAMAGES the game’s community.
Up until the introduction of raids, this is something Anet clearly understood very well – and something they could fix with tiered levels of difficulty inside raids.
Maybe that your idea isn’t well-received here, on the forums, or by anet is evidence that your idea isn’t very good?
It’s not well received by a small group of players that fight against it tooth and nail, yes. That’s not a proof that this idea is bad, merely that there are some people that find it inconvenient for them (but then, any idea, no matter how good or bad, has some people that dislike it).
Actions, not words.
Remember, remember, 15th of November
Remember, remember, 15th of November
(edited by Astralporing.1957)
Anet, when designing group content, does not balance it around average players, but is thinking more in terms of the hardcore crowd. I’m pretty sure that any new fractals we’ll get will be around (or above) Nightmare level, not around, say, Ascalon , Harpies or Underwater ones. And any reworks they will do (if they’ll do any) will only increase the difficulty of reworked fractals.
If that was true then why are the reworks making Fractals easier? Other than the Swamp change, which was indeed made harder, the other changes made parts of their respective fractals easier. Mobs hitting for way less damage, mobs having way less hit points. Sure they added some new mechanics but those are something you can learn and then the content becomes easier.
Also, out of the 2 new Fractals they added, Chaos Isles was easier than average and Nightmare was harder than average. How do you conclude that the changes in Fractals are making them harder is beyond me.
There’s nothing hardcore about normal mode Nightmare. The new and reworked fractals (Swampland, Snowblind) are more mechanically heavy, but they are definitely nowhere near the difficulty of the raids. The existence of more combat mechanics actually make them a better middle ground, as they can now give players a much better idea what to expect in the actual hardcore content (which is being raids). Additionally, fractals are tiered and lower tiers are a complete joke. So if T4 is too hardcore for you, there’s T2 as middle ground.