Guild Wars 2

I wonder if this gear set will allow me to afk meta events more effectively

If so, ANet, omega good job!

The Mexican Cookie.3690:

I wonder if this gear set will allow me to afk meta events more effectively

If so, ANet, omega good job!

Get a full hp regen with mango food warrior, GG. You can probably AFK most bosses and solo dungeons using only your elbows.

The perfect set for asuraball.

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fRAQNAodWjk0UcbtNm2wfbCrhS6AoA+1pPgFYDoqGA-T1QIABAcKAm9JAUx+DiBwM-w

I guess people can now play the ultimate waiting game where they just wait for the mobs to die of boredom, heh.

look at the bright side, I can invite my whole family now to play. Even my grands would’ve learned to play this game having this bubble boy set.

I can’t wait to macro staff guard as I afk to poop while playing pokemon

Thanks anet! You’ve made my dreams come true =^_^=

Lindbur.2537:

I guess people can now play the ultimate waiting game where they just wait for the mobs to die of boredom, heh.

Here, have my likes as usual.

Mesket.5728:

The Mexican Cookie.3690:

I wonder if this gear set will allow me to afk meta events more effectively

If so, ANet, omega good job!

Get a full hp regen with mango food warrior, GG. You can probably AFK most bosses and solo dungeons using only your elbows.

You’d probably get idlekicked before you ever killed the first mob.

i wonder if we can do some gw1 inspired invincible tanking builds using weird spammable skills to kill mobs.

I really want to see this gear in action for some reason :’(

To be honest, does it really matter if Puggies wear Cleric or the new Nomad gear? Sure, they’ll lose some DPS, let’s go with 20% just cause. If they were in Cleric gear before, they still weren’t responsible for more than 5% of the team DPS anyway. That means they’re now responsible for a whopping 4% of team DPS instead.
And unlike Cleric gear, Nomad stuff requires actual playing of the game, so all the Casuals will just whine about it and never actually get it.

Overall, won’t actually affect Dungeons at all, seeing as those who will be wearing Nomad stuff were those who ran Sentinel or Cleric before, and you wouldn’t want those on your team anyway.

The real letdown lies in the fact that, as someone stated above, we didn’t get something like POW/Prec/Condi. Damage instead, I’d have loved to experiment with that for Hybrid builds. Nomad gear… I don’t see any actual use for that even in WvW, maybe Zerg-leading Guards? I wouldn’t know.

Laar.5476:

Where is the crit and the power…
Where is the zerker that was DPSing…
They have passed like patched exploits…
Like unintended game mechanics…

The days have come down in these Forums…
Behind fake tanks and into shadow…
How did it come to this?

You, Sir, deserve a medal. No, all the medals. ALL THE MEDALS!

March 3 – 4, 3019. Never forget.

after some number crunching the nomad set just isn’t up to part for other options..

with a warrior traited 5/0/6/0/3 (vit/tough > power conversion) a full set of Knights gives more toughness and power than a full set of Nomads. In top tier everything other sets still produce more toughness. The vitality isn’t enough to boost the power beyond what you’d get.

With nomad all you are doing is sacrificing power for your health pool. Most classes won’t need this. I can see a zerk crit thief swapping out 2, maybe 3 pieces of armor for Nomads to give herself a boost during tough OHK fights. Otherwise, Nomad: Do not purchase / craft.

So….. has anyone come across this in their dungeon runs? I’m just curious and don’t venture too far outside arah where people generally know a little (JUST A LITTLE) bit better.

some guy in my guild is crafting an ascended set

Sera.6250:

some guy in my guild is crafting an ascended set

I’m truly curious as to why?

yeah, me too :[

Sera.6250:

yeah, me too :[

Then ask him, you blithering goose.

roachsrealm.9284:

after some number crunching the nomad set just isn’t up to part for other options..

with a warrior traited 5/0/6/0/3 (vit/tough > power conversion) a full set of Knights gives more toughness and power than a full set of Nomads. In top tier everything other sets still produce more toughness. The vitality isn’t enough to boost the power beyond what you’d get.

With nomad all you are doing is sacrificing power for your health pool. Most classes won’t need this. I can see a zerk crit thief swapping out 2, maybe 3 pieces of armor for Nomads to give herself a boost during tough OHK fights. Otherwise, Nomad: Do not purchase / craft.

There’s a catch to just swapping out some gear, though. I do this on my thief all the time, and I’m usually swapping out zerker pieces with valkyrie. If I need more survivability, I just swap out more pieces to get greater survivability.

Overall, you can summarize swapping gear like this:

Soldiers: high statistical bulk, doesn’t sacrifice the best damage stat. Has wide scales, letting you swing from one extreme to the other.
Knight: Not as durable as soldiers with only the same offense, but added advantage of maintaining precision for crit based effects.
Valkyrie: Not as durable, but maintains the largest portion of offense. Good with classes that have fury and solid crit boosting options, letting you better micromanage exactly how much health is needed to survive.
Cleric: Inferior to all above, except in circumstances where your class or playstyle already has a lot of heals (guardian, engi, ele mainly). In those exceptions. the massive healing pool can increase group sustain at the greatest sacrifice to offense.

But Nomads is nigh useless when compared to other options, especially considering that someone can always swap out more gear for more bulk. Nomad has only slightly more effective HP than soldiers, but sacrifices all the power. Nomad doesn’t preserve precision or ferocity. And as far as changing playstyles and sustaining the team goes, nomad offers less healing support and less offensive damage than clerics. Nomad is also more expensive, to boot.

Soldier’s is arguably the worst overall set for DPS just because you’re still running power main stat and you have no precision. The already-high might stat means that might/EA/banners have a reduced marginal effect, the lack of precision means ferocity from banners and food has zero effect, and the lack of ferocity means precision has a greatly reduced effect. Moreover, since your defensive stats are both minors, you have to trait more heavily into defensive lines to get the same level of survivability, which is a further DPS loss.

Compare that to Knights, which gets both power and precision in minors, guaranteeing that might and ferocity have the greatest marginal effect, and also has substantial toughness which is arguably the most important defensive stat. Even Clerics or Magi is better because you have a lower power stat (so might helps) and your defense is already through the roof so you can trait offensively and do more damage overall than a Soldier traiting defensively.

Obviously if you’re a Cleric traiting defensively you will do absolute crap for damage, but it’s still a better overall balance of stats if you build right.

I would be interested in crafting a set if I could get trinkets as well. Being able to alt-tab/afk meta events and WvW should make everything pretty easy. I could probably dual-screen a second game to play while I do this.

Im in the process of crafting whole set for my troll EARTH elementalist tank healer!!! PVT – the only holy trinity in one set!
But… this is so unbelieveably expensive O_O it will not stop me from becoming pve hero though.
ofc expensive = the best XDDD

Guanglai Kangyi.4318:

Soldier’s is arguably the worst overall set for DPS just because you’re still running power main stat and you have no precision. The already-high might stat means that might/EA/banners have a reduced marginal effect, the lack of precision means ferocity from banners and food has zero effect, and the lack of ferocity means precision has a greatly reduced effect. Moreover, since your defensive stats are both minors, you have to trait more heavily into defensive lines to get the same level of survivability, which is a further DPS loss.

Compare that to Knights, which gets both power and precision in minors, guaranteeing that might and ferocity have the greatest marginal effect, and also has substantial toughness which is arguably the most important defensive stat. Even Clerics or Magi is better because you have a lower power stat (so might helps) and your defense is already through the roof so you can trait offensively and do more damage overall than a Soldier traiting defensively.

Obviously if you’re a Cleric traiting defensively you will do absolute crap for damage, but it’s still a better overall balance of stats if you build right.

So… primary damage stat is inferior to two secondary damage stats, but two secondary defensive stats are inferior to primary defensive stat… Excuse me while I whip out my calculator.

Power is the most efficiently scaling direct damage stat in the game by a very large margin. It is something that a few of us worked out in the past, so I’ll continue to use this formula:

Power – Prec + 832 > 2100 / (0.5 + Critdmg)

At no ferocity, you need 3368 Power before a single point in precision is worthy of an investment. You may recognize that 3368 is roughly equivalent to full power primary + 6 power runes + 6 in the power trait line + full might. Knight gear barely pays in precision what it loses in power. Things only start to grow when you start to factor in food, team buffs, and signets. Even then, the scales are actually really close. Here, let me show you:

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fJAQFARjMdU7Z3HWeQHaAAAwMODVA-TRROwAcVCCY/BUK/QqDgs6PkBQfMA-e Knight Skeleton

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fJAQFARjMdU7Z3HWeQHaAAAwMODVA-TRROwAhV/Bw+DlU+NTJYRdAkBQfMA-e Identical soldier skeleton

Effective Power pre buffs (food included): 3088 Soldiers, 3170 Knight (2.7% difference)
Effective Power post buffs (spotter, discipline, strength, empower allies, 25 might, fury): 5439 Soldiers vs. 5832 Knight (7% difference)

So overall, the offensive difference between soldiers and knights gear is below the RNG aspect of combat (10%). The reason for this is quite simple: because soldier gear has less precision, the precision buffs mean much more than with knight gear. The difference between 25% and 50% crit rate is much more significant than 50% to 75%, after all.

Now comes durability. For this, you have to consider effective HP, which is the multiplier of HP by armor. The most efficient distribution of effective HP is essentially a square, where point per point via investment they are equal (or roughly when HP is 10 times armor, due to how vitality scales). So, calculating effective HP with 1832 armor as the baseline…

41,326 HP in Soldiers vs. 32,833 HP in Knights.

Meaning that soldiers gear can take 26% more direct damage than knights. Soldiers likewise can also take 41% more condition damage. The only advantage knights has is the increased healing efficacy from toughness, which gives about 12% more efficient heals. All of these numbers, of course, are well outside the RNG aspect of combat.

Soldiers (and likewise, Dire), is arguably the best gear in the game, and it is because of how efficiently the stats are placed. Prioritizes the most efficient damage stat, has secondary stats with a strong geometric relationship, with no true weaknesses to the build. Were it not for the fact that active defenses make passive defenses useless in PVE, we’d have a soldier meta. Because of this, if a player wants to swap out a few pieces of gear for greater defense, the best gear to do this with is soldiers, because it has the largest gains while sacrificing very little over other gear choices.

*Asterisk: A lot of this is dependent on classes and builds within those classes. The skeletal build above existed to demonstrate sheer statistical prowess, and is not representative of a meta build.

You’re overcomplicating it. It’s actually quite simple to look at the base marginal effect of might and fury on soldier’s vs. knights. Gonna round it a bit here.

Soldier has about 2k base power. Add 25 might = 875/2000 = ~44%.
Soldier has 0 precision. Add 20% crit chance = ~10% (ignoring the 4% base crit chance cause whatever, it doesn’t change that much).

Knight has about 1600 base power. 25 might = ~55%.
700 precision = about 35% crit chance = 17.5% boost before fury, 27.5% after = fury adds about 8.75%.

As you can see, the marginal impact of additional precision DRs much less harshly than the marginal impact of additional power.

Then you get to the practical aspects, like:

- Power buffs tend to be more common in general. Might gets thrown around tons, fury rarely unless you’ve got a non-bearbow ranger or an ele who knows what he’s doing. Strength banner is also more common in pugs than Discipline for whatever reason.
- Having higher precision = more procs. For some reason pugs with soldier’s and no crit chance seem to love to pile on on-crit proc traits and gear anyway, I have no idea why. Most of them are crappy procs anyway (Sigil of Fire, etc.) but if it’s an engie, thief, or warrior, you’re getting extra vuln out of the knight’s pug than the soldier’s pug
- If you’ve got pugs in soldier’s you’re probably not a zerk group which means all fights will take a very long time. It’s been a while since I last calculated the amount of damage you’d need to take in a knight’s set to offset the extra HP pool you can take at the start of a fight in soldier’s, but IIRC it wasn’t that much, something like 30k total damage, which a pug will easily take over the course of a boss fight.

A little lesson: a generic analysis is never superior to the more comprehensive and elaborate analysis. You’re not factoring in runes and traits, which contribute to the overall stats of the player. You aren’t looking at where you start: 2k power at 4% crit rate is better than 1.6k power and 35% crit rate. You also aren’t looking at the multiplicative nature of precision, which benefits greatly from having more base power to begin with. You also aren’t looking at the variability of might application. You also aren’t looking at benchmarks of survivability and personal sustain vs. variable sustained incoming damage.

Case in point looking at the two sets under your circumstances:
Pre buffs: 2040 effective power soldier vs 1880 effective power knights.
Post might and fury: 3220 effective power soldiers vs. 3155 effective power knight.
Post might no fury: 2933 soldiers vs. 2833 knight
Post Fury, no might: 2240 soldiers vs. 2040 knight

Soldiers wins. Every time. I’ve already mentioned the preservation of procs as a possible reason to go for knight over soldier, and the whole “swap to more defensive gear” discussion exists already in the pretense that swapping for more defensive gear is personally necessary, so questioning the given situation is just a distraction.

Yeah knights is simply better because of on crit procs. But Soldiers will always yield slightly higher effective power.

Guang the reason we never take you seriously is because you do things like this:
“Soldier has 0 precision. Add 20% crit chance = ~10% (ignoring the 4% base crit chance cause whatever, it doesn’t change that much).”

Ignoring base values, excluding traits and giving rough estimates does not help to increase your credibility.

You can’t factor in runes and traits because we’re basically looking at pugs here. If you could control what they were running the whole soldier vs. knight thing would be irrelevant anyway cause you’d put them in zerker.

If you do want to look at exact numbers, though, let’s just look strictly at multipliers.

Full Exotic Knight: 210%
Full Exotic Soldier: 219.5%

Knight with 25 might: 321.7%
Soldier: 315.1%

Knight with fury: 227.6%
Soldier: 241.1%

Knight with might and fury: 348.7%
Soldier: 346%

Knight with banners/EA: 270.5%
Soldier: 268%

Knight with fury and banners/EA: 296.3%
Soldier: 297.6%

Knight with might, fury, and banners/EA: 428.3%
Soldier: 410.7%

Now obviously you can adjust those numbers however you like using consumables, traits, runes, etc. but those will vary wildly depending on the actual player. The takeaway though is that Knight’s generally benefits better from situations where you have comparatively more power and ferocity boosts and soldier’s is better when you are getting precision and crit chance boosts. I don’t think that’s a surprise to anyone but as you can see from the multipliers above it’s actually quite close.

Incidentally Celestial actually scales better than either; it has a lower base damage but the lower power stat, lower precision stat, and presence of ferocity means it benefits the most from any given buff and with max buffs it actually has more damage than either knight or soldier.

Don’t listen to guang, ever. He has absolutely zero knowledge about actual game circumstances and his theorycrafting isn’t any better. Even his spreadsheet and rotations used to be full of errors.

Also: If claims aren’t ridiculous, they ain’t guang.

Go ahead and disprove it then. Otherwise please leave, grownups are talking.

I’m actually wondering how old Guang is, and whether he is actually a grownup.

Because I really don’t want to feel old, I’m not going to ask.

Effective power (basically what Guang is calculating) is very simple. Equations below for anyone to use.

CritCh = 1/100 x Floor[(Prec – 822)/21] (**Add 420 to Prec for fury, or 0.20 to CritCh directly)
CritDmg = 1/100 x (150 + Fero/15)
EffPower x [CritDmg x CritCh + (1 – CritCh)]

Everything else about Guang aside, his figures comparing Knight/Soldier here looks correct. Knight does have lower effective power without buffs, but will easily come ahead with some/full buffs.

Lilith Ajit.6173:

I’m actually wondering how old Guang is, and whether he is actually a grownup.

Because I really don’t want to feel old, I’m not going to ask.

You aren’t old, most of our officers and guide-writers are in or above your age.

Guanglai Kangyi.4318:

Go ahead and disprove it then. Otherwise please leave, grownups are talking.

Common sense is my evidience.

Guanglai Kangyi.4318:

You can’t factor in runes and traits because we’re basically looking at pugs here. If you could control what they were running the whole soldier vs. knight thing would be irrelevant anyway cause you’d put them in zerker.

If you do want to look at exact numbers, though, let’s just look strictly at multipliers.

Full Exotic Knight: 210%
Full Exotic Soldier: 219.5%

Knight with 25 might: 321.7%
Soldier: 315.1%

Knight with fury: 227.6%
Soldier: 241.1%

Knight with might and fury: 348.7%
Soldier: 346%

Knight with banners/EA: 270.5%
Soldier: 268%

Knight with fury and banners/EA: 296.3%
Soldier: 297.6%

Knight with might, fury, and banners/EA: 428.3%
Soldier: 410.7%

Now obviously you can adjust those numbers however you like using consumables, traits, runes, etc. but those will vary wildly depending on the actual player. The takeaway though is that Knight’s generally benefits better from situations where you have comparatively more power and ferocity boosts and soldier’s is better when you are getting precision and crit chance boosts. I don’t think that’s a surprise to anyone but as you can see from the multipliers above it’s actually quite close.

Incidentally Celestial actually scales better than either; it has a lower base damage but the lower power stat, lower precision stat, and presence of ferocity means it benefits the most from any given buff and with max buffs it actually has more damage than either knight or soldier.

You miss 1400 stats points because you disregarded traits. That’s quite a lot considering the difference between Knight’s and Soldier’s is miniscule.

haviz.1340:

You miss 1400 stats points because you disregarded traits. That’s quite a lot considering the difference between Knight’s and Soldier’s is miniscule.

Traits skew the discussion even further, as pretty much any offensive trait spec will heavily favor Knight over Soldier (the only stat where Knight falls short of Soldier relatively is precision, and this is easily offset by 1.) traiting into power, and 2.) 4 of the 8 professions having ferocity in the precision line as well). I think we can agree to ignore defensive traits, yes?

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/13KQ8cDeTNifn7vsJzuJkWto_5fyifDpKhmentXtod1w/edit?usp=sharing

This was an old spreadsheet I haven’t updated, and the crit chance equation off by 10 precision. Effective power without the universal % multipliers for most armor is compared with most trait distributions is shown, along with the ability to make your own adjustments to anything (food, runes/sigils, traits, buffs, etc).

tl;dr — Soldier is a one-trick pony and thus has reached more of its potential than Knight, so it will gain less with traits and support from the party.

DaveGan.8065:

Traits skew the discussion even further, as pretty much any offensive trait spec will heavily favor Knight over Soldier (the only stat where Knight falls short of Soldier relatively is precision, and this is easily offset by 1.) traiting into power, and 2.) 4 of the 8 professions having ferocity in the precision line as well). I think we can agree to ignore defensive traits, yes?

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/13KQ8cDeTNifn7vsJzuJkWto_5fyifDpKhmentXtod1w/edit?usp=sharing

This was an old spreadsheet I haven’t updated, and the crit chance equation off by 10 precision. Effective power without the universal % multipliers for most armor is compared with most trait distributions is shown, along with the ability to make your own adjustments to anything (food, runes/sigils, traits, buffs, etc).

tl;dr — Soldier is a one-trick pony and thus has reached more of its potential than Knight, so it will gain less with traits and support from the party.

I’m not disagreeing, just saying he disregarded major input to simplify calculations.

haviz.1340:

I’m not disagreeing, just saying he disregarded major input to simplify calculations.

I don’t think he dismissed them completely, as he did mention that most buffs are power-based, which give more benefit to Knight. He also offered a calculation showing how/why Knight received more benefit. I do agree he could have done a bit more to address (directly) why the calculations could be simplified, rather than just doing it.

That said, I do disagree with your earlier statement that the difference between Knight and Soldier is miniscule, and I was somewhat trying to demonstrate that with my last post. Difference shoots up to about 10% with traits, runes, and buffs.

Ooh a theorycrafters debate, love those. Mind if I join?

Guanglai Kangyi.4318:

soldier’s is better when you are getting precision and crit chance boosts.

Blood Red Arachnid.2493:

Case in point looking at the two sets under your circumstances:
Pre buffs: 2040 effective power soldier vs 1880 effective power knights.
Post might and fury: 3220 effective power soldiers vs. 3155 effective power knight.
Post might no fury: 2933 soldiers vs. 2833 knight
Post Fury, no might: 2240 soldiers vs. 2040 knight

Soldiers wins. Every time.

Mes with power-meta traits/runes/sigils/food:

No Might/ No Fury:

• Soldier – 2,882 dps
• Knight – 3,325 dps (+15%)

25 Might / No Fury:

• Soldier – 3,973 dps
• Knight – 4,832 dps (+22%)

No Might / With Fury:

• Soldier – 3,094 dps
• Knight – 3,508 dps (+13%)

25 Might / With Fury:

• Soldier – 4,260 dps
• Knight – 5,089 dps (+19%)

Guanglai Kangyi.4318:

You can’t factor in runes and traits because we’re basically looking at pugs here.

Alright. Same scenario but with terribad runes/sigils/food:

No Might/ No Fury:

• Soldier – 2,284 dps
• Knight – 2,614 dps (+14%)

25 Might / No Fury:

• Soldier – 3,212 dps
• Knight – 3,897 dps (+21%)

No Might / With Fury:

• Soldier – 2,418 dps
• Knight – 2,729 dps (+13%)

25 Might / With Fury:

• Soldier – 3,397 dps
• Knight – 4,062 dps (+20%)

Knights gear will always, ALWAYS, be better than Soldiers. The ONLY case where soldiers is better than knights is when hitting non-critable objects.

Guanglai Kangyi.4318:

Go ahead and disprove it then. Otherwise please leave, grownups are talking.

Now, both of you, see the door on the left? Don’t let it hit you on the way out…

Thats curious lol. I remember several months ago people were argueing that soldier was better and it achieved higher effective power than knights. So basically the guy who was telling me i was wrong was wrong himself. Shame i was too lazy to do the math for defensive gear myself. I assume ferocity has nothing to do with this?

spoj.9672:

Thats curious lol. I remember several months ago people were argueing that soldier was better and it achieved higher effective power than knights. So basically the guy who was telling me i was wrong was wrong himself. Shame i was too lazy to do the math for defensive gear myself. I assume ferocity has nothing to do with this?

Guy made a reddit post with 0 traits 0 runes 0 sigils 0 food 0 spreadsheets 0 calculations shown. Soldier has an advantage here, but pretty much any slight tickle will turn things around.

Said post got a lot of upvotes and became scripture.

EDIT: Ferocity change did hurt knight more than it hurt soldier, but not nearly enough to turn things around.

Guanglai Kangyi.4318:

You can’t factor in runes and traits because we’re basically looking at pugs here.

No, no, no, no no. We’re looking at a player who has personally found it necessary to swap out a few pieces from the max DPS zerk gear. Thus, the given is that this player is already running max DPS zerk gear, and is probably running near meta build, too, what with videos and guides and stuff. This poses a methodological problem: If you are going to presume stupidity and failure on the part of the experiment, then what is to stop anyone from assuming an exact opposite level of stupidity and failure that works for their own case?

As for your numbers: What is there to disprove? You’re basically just agreeing with the analysis I had in the first place: Knight has miniscule increases in offense in certain circumstances over Soldiers. I find it hilarious that you pick numbers and circumstances that favor my conclusion better than the ones I pick myself.

frifox.5283:

stuff with no linked build

Blood Red Arachnid.2493:

*Asterisk: A lot of this is dependent on classes and builds within those classes. The skeletal build above existed to demonstrate sheer statistical prowess, and is not representative of a meta build.

Seriously, there’s a reason why I included this. If a build happens to be extremely proc heavy, or natively stack a lot of ferocity, then knights becomes better offensively. As for the defenses, AKA why we’re swapping out pieces of zerker for knight/soldier, that has no contest. Anyway for comparison, the ele staff DPS build 6/2/2/2/2 with both soldiers and knights.

No boons: 3084 Soldiers, 3170 Knights (2.8% difference)
Fury (reasonable given the build:) 3398 soldiers, 3445 Knights (1.4% difference)
Fury and Max might: 4477 Soldiers, 4698 Knights (4.9% difference)
Effective HP: 28,610 Soldiers, 19,739 Knight, (44.9% difference)

Knight gives nigh negligible to small increases in offense in lieu of far worse defense, as it usually does. But, the important thing to see here is that, in the staff DPS build, there are no damage procs, let alone one that would meaningfully discriminate between 41% crit rate, and 76% crit rate. I guess you could consider the Sigil of Strength, which would be only 58% as effective on the full soldier build as the knight build but given the internal cooldown and AoE nature of the ele along with group contributions of might, that difference might not even show up in many circumstances.

So, to reiterate, your mileage may vary.

I’m curious as to how everyone’s ending up with stat calculations that are so different but I don’t think it really changes the general conclusion which is that Knight scales better overall. Frifox if you want to run Celestial as well that may be good to check the numbers with because I’m getting higher max buff numbers with Celestial than either Soldier or Knight.

Blood Red Arachnid.2493:

frifox.5283:

stuff with no linked build

Base setup: link (6/4/0/0/4 w/ travelers, no sigils)
Numbers obtained with: link (mesmer dps spreadsheet)

Blood Red Arachnid.2493:

Seriously, there’s a reason why I included this. If a build happens to be extremely proc heavy, or natively stack a lot of ferocity, then knights becomes better offensively.

Ok, I took out all on-crit damage procs from my calculations. Both Soldier and Knight builds had exactly +16% critical damage (236 ferocity) which is just pathetic compared to a proper zerks +56% (845 ferocity). The 0/0/0/0/0 build Soldier/Knight tests had +2% (36 ferocity). It would be stupid to call either those “a lot of ferocity”.

No Might / No Fury

• 2,039 dps – Celestial
• 2,132 dps – Soldier
• 2,276 dps – Knight

25 Might / Fury

• 3,116 dps – Soldier
• 3,286 dps – Celestial
• 3,438 dps – Knight

Now, the same test but with a 0/0/0/0/0 build (because pug builds are equally horrible)

No Might / No Fury

• 1,137 dps – Celestial
• 1,311 dps – Soldiers
• 1,339 dps – Knights

25 Might / Fury

• 1,969 dps – Celestial
• 1,987 dps – Soldiers
• 2,129 dps – Knights

Same story, Knights is better than Soldier. Under full might/fury Celestial actually becomes BETTER than soldiers but still not as good as Knights. Not sure why you keep refusing to accept the inevitable. Soldiers gear is just terribad no matter how you look at it.