Guild Wars 2

Well, if you can find dedicated “Refs” that wouldn’t mind running along with 64 groups each through the same dungeon path for a whole day, then optimally you’d only need 2 of them (But I honestly doubt that’ll be enough).

Maybe just find ~10 or so that takes turns?

http://www.dtguilds.com/forum/m/6563292/viewthread/13284824-announcing-death-taxes-invitational-competitive-pve-tournament

Death and Taxes [DnT] is proud to announce The Death and Taxes Invitational, the first competitive PvE tournament. Eight teams of five will compete for the fastest, smoothest dungeon runs in a competitive environment on Saturday, June 28, 2014 at a time convenient for both NA and EU players.

First prize will be 500 Gold to the winning team and additional prize support will be announced moving forward.

The Format

The teams will be paired up before each round for a best of three path contest, and one randomly selected team will have the right to pick which path is run first. Their opponents will pick which path is run second. If a third path is required, Death and Taxes [DnT] will pick a dungeon path. The two teams will begin their dungeon runs simultaneously at an appointed server time, which the runs broadcast live on Twitch.tv. At least one member of each team must be able to live stream the run in order to participate.

The dungeon runs themselves will be regulated and timed according to the http://gwscr.com restricted rule set found here: http://gwscr.com/redirect?id=restricted-records-rules

In addition to the Guild Wars Speed Clear Rules, a defeated player may not resurrect at a waypoint, and may not be resurrected by his teammates. Should a player be defeated, the remaining 4 must complete the dungeon. Should the last member of the team be defeated, or point in the dungeon be reached that cannot be completed with the remaining members of a team (i.e. only two members alive for Shaggoth in Arah Path 1 or the Brazier puzzle in Citadel of Flame Path 1) that will be considered a “Wipe.”

As long as the team that is still alive is able to finish the path without wiping, the finishing team will be given the win regardless of time. Should both teams wipe, the game will be considered a draw and will move onto the next path. If both teams wipe in the third path of the match, the team furthest into the dungeon will be considered the winner.

The Teams

Teams will register with 5 members and one optional alternate. The registration will list the account name of each player and the profession that player will be playing. Players must run the same profession they register with throughout the entire course of the tournament. The alternate player can fill in for any player on the team and may play any desired profession.

This will promote a risk reward proposition between an “all around” team composition that can tackle all paths of every dungeon and one designed to sacrifice utility for additional offense. The alternate will allow creative teams to tweak their team compositions to their advantage.

Registration

The tournament will be by invitation only, however we are soliciting for interested guilds or teams. Guilds may fill multiple teams if they have sufficient members. Any interested guilds or teams may register in the registration thread on the Death and Taxes forum. http://dtguilds.com/forum

The 8 invited teams will be announced on June 21, 2014.

Members of Death and Taxes will be excluded from participation in this tournament.

Questions or Help

Should you have any questions regarding any aspect of the tournament, please post them in the official tournament thread on the Death and Taxes forum.

If you would like to donate prize support (gems, gold, precursors, legendaries) please contact me in game, my IGN is ‘Nike’.

I would like to donate 5 Gem store armors for prizes.

I put your post on the first page Tree if you don’t mind.

Bravo! I would like to donate 5 packs of 10 transmutation charges for the Runner-Up team.

To say the least, these are all interesting ideas. We’ve thought several times over at GWSCR about having similar contests but ultimately haven’t done anything fearing it would be a waste of time due to lack of interest. (And I can only speculate but it is my belief ArenaNet isn’t exactly fond of GWSCR or the speed clear community in general :P So official support wouldn’t be there)

I’m glad to see DnT is interested in doing this though. Best of luck to all the teams!

I am so excited for this. Special thanks to [DnT] for hosting the first wave of this as we move to get more support from ANet. I will make sure that we get ANet visibility for this when it happens, and I’m fairly confident I can even get a dev or two into the stream itself. That will be the first step to moving towards bigger things.

I like that there is a speed consideration with a twist. I’m glad that went through. I want every ‘twist’ that happens to be done in a way that discourages blindly powerhousing through the dungeons with max dps and super risky things. These risky moves should be balanced against the threat they post to the team’s success. Encouraging teams to maybe go a little bulkier to be successful is very awesome. This is a great place to start.

I guarantee that I would be an asset to any team, I have a L80 of every class geared in meta setups, can think quick on my feet, have soloed GL, and absolutely want to participate. If any team with serious intent to participate needs or wants a member, and wants to test me with any test in-dungeon, please let me know and I will make every attempt to meet and exceed your expectations.

Go dungeon tournaments! Let’s make this a success so that ANet will eventually sponsor these things with gem cards and actual rewards!

Prize pool now above 1000g. =D

edit:

Speedexploit for 500g?
Should I take this serious?

If it will be so easy and trivial, you should have no problem winning =P

Holy moly! Exciting!

Speedexploit for 500g?
Should I take this serious?

RoyalPredator.9163:

Speedexploit for 500g?
Should I take this serious?

Exploits will get you disqualified faster than you can drop your FGS and think to press 4.

Sounds good!
I did some brainstorming and came up with some suggestions:

• Have a clear ruleset in case a something unexspected happens. For example a boss not turning hostile or a player dc’ing. Considering you’ll have 8 teams times potential 3 runs, there will be a lot of room for these kinds of failures to happen.
• Since it’s an invitational tournament I’d also consider splitting the price pool up in a way that most or even all participants get at least something, of course with consideration of their performance too.
• Since it is the first time this is done I would consider to define the the gwscr rules further. While the rules are mostly as clear as they can be, there is always a lot of drama when it comes to vague interpretations of rules.
  To give a few examples: The rock in arah p1, Lupi@wall, wraithlord event triggers etc.
• Along the same line (drama avoiding) I’d tie the “tiebreaker dungeon” to RNG. Have a judge use random.org to determine the dungeon path. Otherwise you may potentially run into the issue of people calling you bias towards one team (in terms of the composition).

Agony.3542:

Sounds good!
I did some brainstorming and came up with some suggestions:

• Have a clear ruleset in case a something unexspected happens. For example a boss not turning hostile or a player dc’ing. Considering you’ll have 8 teams times potential 3 runs, there will be a lot of room for these kinds of failures to happen.
• Since it’s an invitational tournament I’d also consider splitting the price pool up in a way that most or even all participants get at least something, of course with consideration of their performance too.
• Since it is the first time this is done I would consider to define the the gwscr rules further. While the rules are mostly as clear as they can be, there is always a lot of drama when it comes to vague interpretations of rules.
  To give a few examples: The rock in arah p1, Lupi@wall, wraithlord event triggers etc.
• Along the same line (drama avoiding) I’d tie the “tiebreaker dungeon” to RNG. Have a judge use random.org to determine the dungeon path. Otherwise you may potentially run into the issue of people calling you bias towards one team (in terms of the composition).

Wise suggestions, I +1 this.
I hope we can garner enough support and interest for this initiative and that many more will follow in the future.
It’s high time we show the world that the high-end PvE scene fosters considerable interest from the community and that ArenaNet needs to devote more resources towards the development of the same.

I just wish it were easier to get into a group for this without being in one of the top speed clearing guilds. People have a difficult time getting involved in any of these things and that is going to hurt these sorts of tournaments down the road. We want “fresh meat” as it were or the competitions will get stale very fast and it’ll feel like rewards are just being handed to the same people over and over without new representation.

I’ll speak for myself here—I’m convinced I can compete and am willing to prove it to any team willing to give me a try, but I am not, however, able or willing to just give up my guild of many years and join a dungeon running guild that requires 90% repping. If we placed, I don’t even want any of the rewards; I just want to participate! I’ve never before been so excited for a tournament and yet I feel like I just don’t have the right connections to compete, and that sucks!

Thanks for the feedback Agony. in regards to your points…

We will discuss what to do if a dungeon bugs out. Any good ideas will be considered. In the case of a DC the person can reconnect so long as they weren’t down or defeated when they disconnected.

The prize will be be proportioned out once it’s finalized. I anticipate getting more prize support before then so I don’t want to give any definite breakdowns now.

I think most of the gwscr rules for particular issues are resolved, but if there is any ambiguity on anything we can discuss it.

The tie breaker paths will be preselected from a list before the tournament begins. So long as no one picks the particular path that is due we will just go in order. If someone happens to pick the tie breaker path early, we will skip it and use the next one on the list. Since the paths for tiebreakers will be pre-determined (but hidden from competitors) there won’t be any shenanigans or gamesmanship.

edit: Registration closed Friday June 20, 2014 at 12:00pm PDT

Answeres are bold

Thanks for the feedback Agony. in regards to your points…

We will discuss what to do if a dungeon bugs out. Any good ideas will be considered. In the case of a DC the person can reconnect so long as they weren’t down or defeated when they disconnected.
For me there are 3 possible ways.

• A complete restart for both teams.
• Let the unbugged team wait for the other team to get back to where they were.
• Let the bugged team restart and compare the time needed for completion (gwscr restricted ruleset timer)
  In any of these cases a player who died during the previous run would have to die at the same spot again.

The prize will be be proportioned out once it’s finalized. I anticipate getting more prize support before then so I don’t want to give any definite breakdowns now.
Completely understandable
I think most of the gwscr rules for particular issues are resolved, but if there is any ambiguity on anything we can discuss it.
The tie breaker paths will be preselected from a list before the tournament begins. So long as no one picks the particular path that is due we will just go in order. If someone happens to pick the tie breaker path early, we will skip it and use the next one on the list. Since the paths for tiebreakers will be pre-determined (but hidden from competitors) there won’t be any shenanigans or gamesmanship.
Good solution, the list should be made public once the group compositions are set.

edit: Registration closed Friday June 20, 2014 at 12:00pm PDT

Rising Dusk.2408:

I just wish it were easier to get into a group for this without being in one of the top speed clearing guilds. People have a difficult time getting involved in any of these things and that is going to hurt these sorts of tournaments down the road. We want “fresh meat” as it were or the competitions will get stale very fast and it’ll feel like rewards are just being handed to the same people over and over without new representation.

I’ll speak for myself here—I’m convinced I can compete and am willing to prove it to any team willing to give me a try, but I am not, however, able or willing to just give up my guild of many years and join a dungeon running guild that requires 90% repping. If we placed, I don’t even want any of the rewards; I just want to participate! I’ve never before been so excited for a tournament and yet I feel like I just don’t have the right connections to compete, and that sucks!

That’s always the crux of inviational tournaments. Usually there is a “wildcard” or a qualifier held for one or two spots. However I’d consider this as something like a “proof of concept”. If it goes well and if more people (maybe even anet) get involved there may be a “dungeon legends open”.

Agony.3542:

Answeres are bold

Thanks for the feedback Agony. in regards to your points…

We will discuss what to do if a dungeon bugs out. Any good ideas will be considered. In the case of a DC the person can reconnect so long as they weren’t down or defeated when they disconnected.
For me there are 3 possible ways.

• A complete restart for both teams.
• Let the unbugged team wait for the other team to get back to where they were.
• Let the bugged team restart and compare the time needed for completion (gwscr restricted ruleset timer)
  In any of these cases a player who died during the previous run would have to die at the same spot again.

One thing on the “let them catch back up” option. Ability refreshes would be changed. FGS/Timewarps/Norn elites back up in situations wher they shouldn’t be and what not. It’s an unfortunate situation but I think that option would have the potential to change things too much. And if one team has to restart why not just have both teams restart /shrug.

EDIT: I am currently not in a state to make any statements. An rT team will register for the invitational tournament, and rT will be supporting the project to its fullest once it moves to a more broad scale.

As I am currently on fieldwork and any other working officers from rT aren’t likely to respond to the forums, this is presumably the only official reply from rT until next week.

I just want to remind everyone that this is an Invitational Tournament, where the scale is small, with a few participants and very limited technical support from ANet. What we want to show here is how the ideas from the dungeon community can be realized and how this tournament can be as fun and challenging as a competitive pvp tournament. The experience gained from this tournament will become a valuable reference material for our continuing discussion.

Since Josh’s post, we all realize that the ultimate goal is to pass the torch to ANet one day so that they can make an official tournament.

Iris Ng.9845:

I just want to remind everyone that this is an Invitational Tournament, where the scale is small, with a few participants and very limited technical support from ANet. What we want to show here is how the ideas from the dungeon community can be realized and how this tournament can be as fun and challenging as a competitive pvp tournament. The experience gained from this tournament will be a valuable reference material for our continuing discussion.

Since Josh’s post, we all realize that the ultimate goal is to pass the torch to ANet one day so that they can make an official tournament.

Technical support from Anet? Are we that gullible?

Agony.3542:

That’s always the crux of inviational tournaments. Usually there is a “wildcard” or a qualifier held for one or two spots. However I’d consider this as something like a “proof of concept”. If it goes well and if more people (maybe even anet) get involved there may be a “dungeon legends open”.

Sure, but even beyond that, there isn’t a mechanism within this community to really “form a tournament-ready group” outside of “apply for a speed clearing guild”. I think that’s far more important to the general viability of this or any tournament than it’s getting credit for being. Those guilds are big enough that they can “look internally” for people, and outside that you’re pretty much out of luck. Even in a “dungeon legends open” tournament, simply asking in a thread for a team isn’t going to be very effective.

haviz.1340:

Technical support from Anet? Are we that gullible?

I don’t foresee them doing any work for us, but I do foresee them providing gem cards and such as rewards if we can drum up a serious level of interest.

haviz.1340:

Iris Ng.9845:

I just want to remind everyone that this is an Invitational Tournament, where the scale is small, with a few participants and very limited technical support from ANet. What we want to show here is how the ideas from the dungeon community can be realized and how this tournament can be as fun and challenging as a competitive pvp tournament. The experience gained from this tournament will be a valuable reference material for our continuing discussion.

Since Josh’s post, we all realize that the ultimate goal is to pass the torch to ANet one day so that they can make an official tournament.

Technical support from Anet? Are we that gullible?

There is no harm in hoping. We’re still having our fun in the process.

While I am not good enough to participate in this dusk, I know I would join your group in a heartbeat. I recommend seeking out people from less intense dungeon guilds (LoD comes to mind for me, Colesy mentioned REN) and see if any of their veteran members can join you. These smaller guilds probably won’t be able to get “the group” together. But they might have a few people who can add to your group.

Or we can start a LFG thread, Lilith! Just like how it happened when the first ToL PvP rolled out.

Iris Ng.9845:

There is no harm in hoping. We’re still having our fun in the process.

Sure, there’s no harm. But shouldn’t you be a bit more realistic? Hoping for unicorns in real life hasn’t got anyone anywhere.

Lilith Ajit.6173:

While I am not good enough to participate in this dusk, I know I would join your group in a heartbeat. I recommend seeking out people from less intense dungeon guilds (LoD comes to mind for me, Colesy mentioned REN) and see if any of their veteran members can join you. These smaller guilds probably won’t be able to get “the group” together. But they might have a few people who can add to your group.

Im in the same boat, I’d offer to join or even help form, but I wouldn’t subject someone to my newbishness quite yet. I still haven’t perfected a lot of paths. This whole thing though makes me wnt to practice so eventually I could though. I’ve done these things in other games but I’m just not there yet in this one.

haviz.1340:

Iris Ng.9845:

There is no harm in hoping. We’re still having our fun in the process.

Sure, there’s no harm. But shouldn’t you be a bit more realistic? Hoping for unicorns in real life hasn’t got anyone anywhere.

Don’t tell the bronies that

The Mexican Cookie.3690:

Don’t tell the bronies that

I wouldn’t dare to destroy their world.

Edit 1: Well, I’m know for being Fluttershy. I guess I should leave this discussion to more realistic people.

Edit 2: I must say that I’m very disappointed at some sarcasms here.

Grouch is helping me work out the technical details so Brazil and I can shoutcast it.

Prize support is up to 1200g+.

First,

Thank you all at Death and Taxes for being willing to put this on the line first.

Second,
of course as the announcement rolled out and i thought to myself maybe i could see about a team. Chaos at work will not allow me to attend. So I will be supporting you all in other manners, because i really do think this is awesome.

Third.

TO ALL THE TEAMS I PERSONALLY WISH YOU THE VERY BEST OF LUCK! make this something fun, make it awesome.

and show the rest of the Guild Wars community that we “play how we want” too

haviz.1340:

Iris Ng.9845:

There is no harm in hoping. We’re still having our fun in the process.

Sure, there’s no harm. But shouldn’t you be a bit more realistic? Hoping for unicorns in real life hasn’t got anyone anywhere.

You’re wrong, North korea has a cave full of unicorns, the fact ya all haven’t seen them yet is cause North Korea is the one and only blessed country FACT. (Pic4proof)

On a more serious note, seems like this is actually lifting off, so i’m just gonna wish ya’ll good luck!

I can’t wait to listen Brazil shoutcast it. It would feel so forced! and so uhh…can’t wait!

Ariete The Phoenix.8276:

I can’t wait to listen Brazil shoutcast it. It would feel so forced! and so uhh…can’t wait!

Brazil shoutcasting means at least one comment about Bear Force One. I’m in!

Now that I think of it, the best support Anet could give to this initiative is actually a post.

“Anet, as a studio and including its non-development agents, wishes to sincerely express an apology to the PvE community of GW2. Anet acknowledges that it has actively acted against the best efforts of the community to promote PvE. Anet understands that it failed in its mission, and it recognises the need to actually listen to the people playing the game. Just kidding, Anet won’t ever listen to you, but Anet promises not to interfere with your endeavors anymore. As such, Anet will commit to the following:
- Anet will not remove content
- Anet will not stealth change anything
- Anet will not abuse rhetoric
- Anet will not abuse its powers in PvF
- Anet may add content, but will always discuss it with its players first so that new content is not useless”

No trees, butterflies, rabbits, or moderators were harmed in the making of this message.

Tree.3916:

Grouch is helping me work out the technical details so swiftpaw can call everyone kittens.

If this becomes a popular and continuing activity, perhaps a Leaderboard can be formed… that’d be nice since Anet is unable/unwilling to fulfill their promise of creating one.

Whaaaa?? I take a break and come back and there’s an actual DEV on these forums I shouldn’t have drank that much…

Anet has kindly offered to sweeten the pot.

2k gems to each player on the winning team
800 gems to each player on the second place team

You guys need to register for this.

0.o

hellfriggin yeah!!!!!!!

Every team that participates will get a prize! Regardless of placement Absolutely nothing to lose

I’m still a bit confused. Can anyone register and participate or only certain people/guilds?

Tree.3916:

Anet has kindly offered to sweeten the pot.

2k gems to each player on the winning team
800 gems to each player on the second place team

You guys need to register for this.

So fabulous!

The winners will totally be rolling in it. Hehe

NovaanVerdiano.6174:

I’m still a bit confused. Can anyone register and participate or only certain people/guilds?

I’m not the head organizer, but I believe anyone can put together a team and then register it at on the DnT website. After the deadline, we will send out invitations to 8 registered teams to participate.

NovaanVerdiano.6174:

I’m still a bit confused. Can anyone register and participate or only certain people/guilds?

Preference will be given to guilds that have current or past speed run records on gwscr, but after that the remainder of the invites will be raffled.

Tree.3916:

NovaanVerdiano.6174:

I’m still a bit confused. Can anyone register and participate or only certain people/guilds?

Preference will be given to guilds that have current or past speed run records on gwscr, but after that the remainder of the invites will be raffled.

Ah, thanks for clearing that up.

I’m just hoping the donations will actually continue to come after the first tournament, so we can actually keep things going.

So long as the event works out to be a success we should be in good shape.

About when will the first dungeon runs take place, by the way? It might be somewhat problematic getting NA and EU teams together at the same time.

First run would be something like 11am EST / 8am PST. That should make it somewhere around 5-7pm for most of EU. To make the finals it might be a late-ish night, but I reckon perhaps all three rounds will take 6 hours maximum counting down time between rounds. Hopefully that isnt too late for EU.