Guild Wars 2

You’re talking about a dungeon related guild. Some people aren’t looking for that. In addition, as far as I know (I’m not sure if I know well), [noob] isn’t being run by helpers, but there’s also no ranking system for players who proved to go out of their way (videos, reading, etc.).

What I suggested is that the “casuals” form a list/guild like the one I described in my previous post. The helpers help, the casuals take care of the rest, and the ones going the extra miles are promoted. In addition, it can be used to get a black list and a praise list. Players get the chance to earn their reputation, and vice versa.

Conclusion: The next time a “casual” is being a jerk, you could do more than prove he’s a jerk. You could point him toward the thread (and/or a guild, if it actually happens) and show him that the other side was willing to go out of his way for him. If he didn’t go out of his way, and he’s still complaining, then he’s only making fun of himself. He won’t only find no legitimacy, but will also find the opposite.

Huh? You’re not very informed about how [noob] is structured. There’s a rank which is reached by students that prove themselves to be good, so they’re like “promoted”.
Dunno if it has changed now. It was like this only a couple of months ago.
How many guilds do helpful players have to create, how many thread stickied, how many discussions linked, so the casuals and PHIWs wake up and start helping themselves?
And why are you referring to a guild that isn’t dungeon related? I thought we were talking about help in dungeons. If they don’t want that, they can join one of those huge 500-members, uber casual guilds.

deSade.9437:

one of those huge 500-members, uber casual guilds.

Dat feel when you jump into a random pug and all of them have the tag of one of those guilds.

:|

J Eberle.9312:

deSade.9437:

one of those huge 500-members, uber casual guilds.

Dat feel when you jump into a random pug and all of them have the tag of one of those guilds.

:|

Oh, my dear, I know. I know.
/pat
It devastates me every single time.
It’s funny, though, because one of my buddies often represents TKT and nobody fully understands why – why he represents and why he’s still in there. For the funny chat, he says.
Giggles guaranteed, and we can always blame him if we die.

J Eberle.9312:

deSade.9437:

one of those huge 500-members, uber casual guilds.

Dat feel when you jump into a random pug and all of them have the tag of one of those guilds.

:|

That’s when you sit back, relax, grab a drink and turn on your favorite recording tool for pugventures: daily life of the PHIW.

deSade.9437:

Huh? You’re not very informed about how [noob] is structured. There’s a rank which is reached by students that prove themselves to be good, so they’re like “promoted”.
Dunno if it has changed now. It was like this only a couple of months ago.
How many guilds do helpful players have to create, how many thread stickied, how many discussions linked, so the casuals and PHIWs wake up and start helping themselves?
And why are you referring to a guild that isn’t dungeon related? I thought we were talking about help in dungeons. If they don’t want that, they can join one of those huge 500-members, uber casual guilds.

Yes and no. Quite a few of those uber casual guilds resent the so called “elitists” and their ways for no good reason. Yes, I said no good reason. Jerks are a part of each and every community. That said, those might not be the best places to learn how to improve your performance. Some of those guilds do anything but promote tolerance or help players who want to improve their performance in every way possible.

The guild I’m suggesting will help with various aspects of improving one’s performance:

• Helping people find a way to get the info (like videos, reading materials, etc.) they’re looking for.

• Helping people improve their dodging skills.

• Helping people find like minded players to play with.

• Helping people find a refuge from intolerance promoting guilds.

• There are probably other things I didn’t mention here.

Basically it’s going to help people, who want to do that extra mile, find many more who’re willing to help. Some of the new members will eventually become teachers, reducing the huge load there is on the current helpers…. (and so on…)

I stand corrected about [noob], although I said I wasn’t sure if I’m informed in the first place.

Edit:

It’s also going to help the players who wanted to help others since they’re going to face far less grief than they currently do (when it’s unorganized).

Most of what you list there represents what [Noob] already does. We help teach the game mechanics to others and help them understand boss/fight/dungeon mechanics and setups. What we don’t do, at least not straightforward, is the ethical stuff. We passively teach that to others by showing them how to communicate to others and such.

Darius.4710:

Quite a few of those uber casual guilds resent the so called “elitists” and their ways for no good reason. Yes, I said no good reason. Jerks are a part of each and every community. That said, those might not be the best places to learn how to improve your performance. Some of those guilds do anything but promote tolerance or help players who want to improve their performance in every way possible.

That’s absolutely 100% true. I tried one of those 500 casual guilds for a few months and they had stricter rules than rT. Far stricter. For instance, if you were someone like me or spoj you couldn’t possibly form a party with guildies, because putting ANY requirement or request in the LFG guild message was forbidden. So you couldn’t ask for someone with a bit of experience in the dungeon, for a class you felt was needed (say you had 4 warrs and you really, badly needed reflects)… if you asked for zerk, OHMAHGAWD, punch him ‘til he can’t get back up.
I wonder if spoj knows what I’m talking about
Also, you couldn’t really disagree with officers.
Nobody really answered when you asked for party in chat. They were only spamming kitten.
Needless to say I just blocked the chat and joined them for GMs only.
So yeah, I see where you’re coming from. Makes sense. The thing is, I doubt there would be many people willing to put effort into one more “helping” guild. It might turn into a second job.

The ethical aspect is highly important. The attitudes some of the “casuals” show, when people are trying to help them (politely!) are terrible, or worse. In addition, dungeons might seem like a huge undertaking for some of new players who just want to join. They might simply want a place to find friendly teachers and friends so they can improve their performance in every way possible.

When someone simply joins a random casual guild (knowing there’s a teaching guild), he’s just looking for company. When someone joins this helping guild, he wants to improve his performance and maybe even be a teacher in the long run.

deSade.9437:

Darius.4710:

Quite a few of those uber casual guilds resent the so called “elitists” and their ways for no good reason. Yes, I said no good reason. Jerks are a part of each and every community. That said, those might not be the best places to learn how to improve your performance. Some of those guilds do anything but promote tolerance or help players who want to improve their performance in every way possible.

That’s absolutely 100% true. I tried one of those 500 casual guilds for a few months and they had stricter rules than rT. Far stricter. For instance, if you were someone like me or spoj you couldn’t possibly form a party with guildies, because putting ANY requirement or request in the LFG guild message was forbidden. So you couldn’t ask for someone with a bit of experience in the dungeon, for a class you felt was needed (say you had 4 warrs and you really, badly needed reflects)… if you asked for zerk, OHMAHGAWD, punch him ‘til he can’t get back up.
I wonder if spoj knows what I’m talking about
Also, you couldn’t really disagree with officers.
Nobody really answered when you asked for party in chat. They were only spamming kitten.
Needless to say I just blocked the chat and joined them for GMs only.
So yeah, I see where you’re coming from. Makes sense. The thing is, I doubt there would be many people willing to put effort into one more “helping” guild. It might turn into a second job.

First of all, if they don’t walk that extra mile, they’re absolutely no right to demand anything from the so called “elitists”. When the opportunity was presented, and they said no, they can only (and I mean only) blame themselves.

Now, seeing as it might become a second job, you could do what (some of) the helpers from [noob] do. They allocate their time properly so they don’t get tired of it. In addition, the helping guild’s purpose is also to create more teachers and relieve the administrative chores from the helpers.

The “casuals” will either have to walk that extra mile or blame themselves for not doing so (when complaining).

deSade.9437:

Darius.4710:

I was in one of those kind of guilds as well. They were a wvw guild that did the gms during the weekend. By god how ignorant they were of pve unfortunately and how much crap they used to talk about pve. I remember we were doing KQ in between the mgs and they started complaining because they were trying to face tank her. They got mad at me when I told them they needed to dodge and said something along the lines of how they had such and such amount of toughness and hp…needless to say I didn’t last there too much longer after that.

And that’s not the worst part. If there was a PvE reward (they wanted) that was unattainable, you’d see them starting to avoid the ill performing members while finding every excuse to play with the well performing ones. Been there, done that, I’ve been to the most casual guilds possible as well as the most hardcore ones since UO (Ultima Online). It has nothing to do video games. It has to do with human nature.

Many players find their way to such guilds, and then people wonder where’s all that intolerance coming from. Real Elitism has to do with “we’re better than them (for moral reasons, usually)”. Just try getting them to face this truth and see how far you get.

The table has been set. The idea is formed and the “casuals” need to pick up the glove. Either they do that or have no legitimate reason to complain about the so called “elitists” (who’re not jerks, which many of them aren’t).

Problem is that the people who keep complaining don’t care about picking up the glove.

I know their kind. The know them very well. They’re often looking for legitimacy and/or a place where they can get back (sort of) at the so called elitists. They don’t stand a chance to get what they’re looking for with:

• The arguments. https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/dungeons/Why-are-elitists-viewed-as-the-evil-ones/page/5#post4273377 and https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/dungeons/Why-are-elitists-viewed-as-the-evil-ones/page/5#post4273378.

• The fact [noob] exists. I’ve seen some complainers back off when faced with this fact.

• The fact others have come up with the current idea and are willing to be helpers.

• The fact that, after all of the above (points) combined, even some of the “casuals” are going to slap the complainers. I’ve seen it happen on forums and inside guilds.

J Eberle.9312:

I always tell old man coleslaw, ’don’t help anyone you don’t know unless it benefits you as well’ because they’re rarely thankful, they’re rude and obnoxious towards any suggestions and they often think its their god given right to be carried and if you refuse to then you’re the selfish one.

I’ve always been a believer in Egoism, in that it’s the idea that no one does anything without personal gain to themselves. Helping others isn’t done for altruistic reasons, it’s done because it makes the person doing it feel good about themselves. And with that I agree with it.

At best you get thanked and everyone is happy. At worst you get kicked from your own group and you LOL yourself to sleep that night.

Jerus.4350:

J Eberle.9312:

I always tell old man coleslaw, ’don’t help anyone you don’t know unless it benefits you as well’ because they’re rarely thankful, they’re rude and obnoxious towards any suggestions and they often think its their god given right to be carried and if you refuse to then you’re the selfish one.

I’ve always been a believer in Egoism, in that it’s the idea that no one does anything without personal gain to themselves. Helping others isn’t done for altruistic reasons, it’s done because it makes the person doing it feel good about themselves. And with that I agree with it.

At best you get thanked and everyone is happy. At worst you get kicked from your own group and you LOL yourself to sleep that night.

I used to feel good about it regardless.. but after the constant abuse I just feel kinda dead inside.. Like wow I just spent all this time and effort on someone who doesn’t deserve it at all.. I could have been doing something way more productive in this time or actually helping someone I know who will be appreciative of it. T_T

J Eberle.9312:

Jerus.4350:

J Eberle.9312:

I always tell old man coleslaw, ’don’t help anyone you don’t know unless it benefits you as well’ because they’re rarely thankful, they’re rude and obnoxious towards any suggestions and they often think its their god given right to be carried and if you refuse to then you’re the selfish one.

I’ve always been a believer in Egoism, in that it’s the idea that no one does anything without personal gain to themselves. Helping others isn’t done for altruistic reasons, it’s done because it makes the person doing it feel good about themselves. And with that I agree with it.

At best you get thanked and everyone is happy. At worst you get kicked from your own group and you LOL yourself to sleep that night.

I used to feel good about it regardless.. but after the constant abuse I just feel kinda dead inside.. Like wow I just spent all this time and effort on someone who doesn’t deserve it at all.. I could have been doing something way more productive in this time or actually helping someone I know who will be appreciative of it. T_T

I hear ya, and I don’t think anyone could blame you for that. While I’m not really on the level to be mentoring people in GW2 I did a lot of it in older games and as time went on I was leaning more towards your opinion there. You can only get snapped at for helping so many times before you say “screw you all it isn’t worth it!”

My rule since then has become “if they ask a question, I’ll answer, but if they can’t ask, then they’re probably more trouble than it’s worth to try and teach.”

Jerus.4350:

My rule since then has become “if they ask a question, I’ll answer, but if they can’t ask, then they’re probably more trouble than it’s worth to try and teach.”

Best rule eva.

I just help people whom I find worthy. So that means there has to be a certain… alchemy between me and him/her. An affinity.
If I like them – their attitude and their personality, there’s a very good chance they’re gonna happily be influenced by my jerkism, and that I’ll happily show them what I know.
How to troll dem PHIWs! MUAHAHAHA
Ahem.

One day they walk up to you and say…
“Magister, I don’t know what’s wrong with me! I can’t stand pugs anymore! Everytime I see a bearbow my blood pressure goes through the roof; everytime I see a staff guardian I feel like I’m going to snap! I keep making up excuses not to play with my kittened guildmates in nomad, and I’m starting to have dirty thoughts about lupi! What should I do? Is it a bad thing?”
At that point I’ll just pat them on the head, smile and say: “My dearest, it’s incurable.”

deSade.9437:

One day they walk up to you and say…
“Magister, I don’t know what’s wrong with me! I can’t stand pugs anymore! Everytime I see a bearbow my blood pressure goes through the roof; everytime I see a staff guardian I feel like I’m going to snap! I keep making up excuses not to play with my kittened guildmates in nomad, and I’m starting to have dirty thoughts about lupi! What should I do? Is it a bad thing?”
At that point I’ll just pat them on the head, smile and say: “My dearest, it’s incurable.”

0.o

(( sobs uncontrollably in a fetal position in the corner ))

deSade.9437:

I just help people whom I find worthy. So that means there has to be a certain… alchemy between me and him/her. An affinity.
If I like them – their attitude and their personality, there’s a very good chance they’re gonna happily be influenced by my jerkism, and that I’ll happily show them what I know.
How to troll dem PHIWs! MUAHAHAHA
Ahem.

One day they walk up to you and say…
“Magister, I don’t know what’s wrong with me! I can’t stand pugs anymore! Everytime I see a bearbow my blood pressure goes through the roof; everytime I see a staff guardian I feel like I’m going to snap! I keep making up excuses not to play with my kittened guildmates in nomad, and I’m starting to have dirty thoughts about lupi! What should I do? Is it a bad thing?”
At that point I’ll just pat them on the head, smile and say: “My dearest, it’s incurable.”

“In order to know virtue, we must first acquaint ourselves with vice."

— The other de Sade

Unfortunately, most of the solutions to the presented problems involve better communication in dungeon PuG’s with random strangers on the internet. While this happens, it’s not all that likely.

dlonie.6547:

deSade.9437:

I just help people whom I find worthy. So that means there has to be a certain… alchemy between me and him/her. An affinity.
If I like them – their attitude and their personality, there’s a very good chance they’re gonna happily be influenced by my jerkism, and that I’ll happily show them what I know.
How to troll dem PHIWs! MUAHAHAHA
Ahem.

One day they walk up to you and say…
“Magister, I don’t know what’s wrong with me! I can’t stand pugs anymore! Everytime I see a bearbow my blood pressure goes through the roof; everytime I see a staff guardian I feel like I’m going to snap! I keep making up excuses not to play with my kittened guildmates in nomad, and I’m starting to have dirty thoughts about lupi! What should I do? Is it a bad thing?”
At that point I’ll just pat them on the head, smile and say: “My dearest, it’s incurable.”

“In order to know virtue, we must first acquaint ourselves with vice."

— The other de Sade

The less famous and less awesome de Sade*

Ughhhhhnnn nononono please stop whipping me

IndigoSundown.5419:

Unfortunately, most of the solutions to the presented problems involve better communication in dungeon PuG’s with random strangers on the internet. While this happens, it’s not all that likely.

Yes and no. Yes they’ll need to prove themselves to be helped, which includes some communication aspects. No they won’t be just complete PuG strangers because:

• They already walked that extra mile (more like 3 feet) when they joined the list/guild. This fact proves they have the motivation and probably know they’ll have to change (to an extent).

• They probably know that they can be promoted, and praised, for showing a good attitude.

• They probably know there’ll be consequences (kicked and their name slandered in public) for bad attitude, as there should be.

This is very different than random PuG strangers.