Guild Wars 2

When a person comes to a “all zerk, be experienced” or “want X class for X content” party and the person who clearly don’t fit the bill and didn’t bother reading the lfg and joins gets kicked, why is it that the elitest players gets the hate?..

If people want to do things casually they can, just open up lfg and put your descriptions something like “no trash skips, play casually” or “all cleric gear party” there. I really doubt there would be zerker elitest players joining that party, and if they do, you can do same thing and kick them!.. win win situation

Because everyone should play how he wants except zerkers because they’re toxic.

In all honesty though, don’t even bother to find logic in that regard.

I honestly just don’t even anymore. They join without reading, or they read and join anyway and expect a charity run just for them. It’s like the lights are on but nobody is home.

Because we’re all evil scumbags, taught by our grand kitten master swiftpaw.

Just the fact that simply the playstyle of preferring an optimized gameplay is called “zerker elitism”, says so much about this game xD

I feel so baffled why this is so unacceptable here, meanwhile in other games it’s absolutely normal to gear and behave efficiently.
The question is, where these kind of players come from?

A subset of them are the original “Play how I tell you” group, intolerant of people that didn’t ‘play right’. That’s not the bad part though … it’s when people started getting kicked because of gear pings, etc… Now that is practiced by other players who aren’t as knowledgeable/skilled, so it just breeds other intolerances. It’s just a matter of time before we have people that can’t play with each other because of trivial bits of stupidity. Maybe it’s misdirected but through association, these people get the ire of the community.

Well, because they ARE evil… I didn’t keep a straight face, did I?

To be honest, it is probably for several reasons. Some people who have damage oriented gear really don’t know how to play the game and try to blame others for their own mistakes (the wannabe elitists), people who don’t read or flat out ignore the lfg description join the group and then get kicked (and this isn’t limited to the zerk only groups), and because the all natural jealousy and envy towards people who can and do play the game very well in damage-oriented gear.
There’s probably more reasons, but those are the 3 that come to mind right now.

@Dalanor: “these kinds of players” are the people who aren’t doing dungeons in other games because of efficiency v. personal preference. They came “here” because GW2 supposedly did away with requirements.

Some people have the idea that anyone should be able to enter any PuG group. I’m torn, myself. I believe that anyone should be able to group with others who share a desire for the same type of play experience. I also believe that anyone who establishes that kind of requirement should have to take responsibility for their preferences and make a group out of friends and guild lists. I believe that no one should own PuGging. In fact, I think MMO’s were better games when people didn’t have this particular convenience feature.

I’m also sure my position is not popular and is not going to happen. I’m just expressing an opinion that features that remove social aspects from MMO’s are not a good thing.

Elitists exclude others. The excluded people don’t like it. End of story.

The elites like to say “play with your type of player” but only the elitists see different types of players. The causal runner just wants to play with everyone and doesn’t differentiate between players. Everyone is their type.

I feel this question is almost like asking why do people not like Jewish people during WWII?(Disclaimer: I have nothing against Jewish people)

Because I have an evil character.

I’m proud of being zerker elitist jerk.

I really don’t know. The play-how-you-want crowd are really hypocritical, because they’re getting mad at someone for playing how they want. They aren’t really a play-how-you-want crowd, they’re an I-have-a-right-to-every-group crowd. I don’t participate in zerker only groups, but I don’t yell at them for playing how they want.

Morsus.5106:

I really don’t know. The play-how-you-want crowd are really hypocritical, because they’re getting mad at someone for playing how they want. They aren’t really a play-how-you-want crowd, they’re an I-have-a-right-to-every-group crowd. I don’t participate in zerker only groups, but I don’t yell at them for playing how they want.

^ A gentleman and a scholar right here folks. They are the self entitled group who think they can join anyone and anything and don’t care who’s experience they are impacting on.

Oh look, it`s this thread again.

I have no idea what you’re talking about, threads like this rarely happen at all.

Threads of people playing badly or using suboptimal gear in gearcheck groups and getting booted are rampant though.

I’m enjoying this, along with someone coming out from his natural habitat in the guardian forums to share his enlightening insight.

They say when you jump into the swamp, you may not be able to claw your way out

Morsus.5106:

I really don’t know. The play-how-you-want crowd are really hypocritical, because they’re getting mad at someone for playing how they want.

That’s not the problem at all. It’s when some of play how I tell you crowd act out, harrassing and kicking people. I don’t see play how you want people insulting players for wrong builds, etc…accusing them being selfish and wasting people’s time … or kicking people from teams because they dodged a half second too late.

Play how you want people aren’t hypocrites because they don’t care what you want to do.

Lunar Sunset.8742:

Elitist argue the same kitten everyday, don’t you ever get tired of smelling your own kittening farts. Gawd

Obtena.7952:

Morsus.5106:

I really don’t know. The play-how-you-want crowd are really hypocritical, because they’re getting mad at someone for playing how they want.

That’s not the problem at all. It’s when some of play how I tell you crowd act out, harrassing and kicking people. I don’t see play how you want people insulting players for wrong builds, etc…accusing them being selfish and wasting people’s time … or kicking people from teams.

No, instead you see them asking for berserker gear to be nerfed, removed, and a serving of angry condescension, with phrases like “monkey rolling”, “zerkids”, “exploiters”, “stack and press random keys” and the obligatory “elitist” when someone says something they disagree with, because you just can’t have arguments without ad hominems being thrown around on this forum.

Both sides are in the wrong, but don’t pretend that the “play how you want” crowd is in the clear here, because they’re absolutely not.

Its funny & weird both have personal goals although the game ( guildwars ) doesnt know or care about them.

maha.7902:

Obtena.7952:

Morsus.5106:

I really don’t know. The play-how-you-want crowd are really hypocritical, because they’re getting mad at someone for playing how they want.

That’s not the problem at all. It’s when some of play how I tell you crowd act out, harrassing and kicking people. I don’t see play how you want people insulting players for wrong builds, etc…accusing them being selfish and wasting people’s time … or kicking people from teams.

No, instead you see them asking for berserker gear to be nerfed, removed, and a serving of angry condescension, with phrases like “monkey rolling”, “zerkids”, “exploiters”, “stack and press random keys” and the obligatory “elitist” when someone says something they disagree with, because you just can’t have arguments without ad hominems being thrown around on this forum.

Both sides are in the wrong, but don’t pretend that the “play how you want” crowd is in the clear here, because they’re absolutely not.

That’s the first time I’ve heard “monkey rolling”, please use it in a sentence for me.

Also I bet we could get a mod to make a “Dungeon Whining Superthread” sticky and just move all the duplicate posts there.

monkey rolling is best

maha.7902:

Obtena.7952:

Morsus.5106:

I really don’t know. The play-how-you-want crowd are really hypocritical, because they’re getting mad at someone for playing how they want.

That’s not the problem at all. It’s when some of play how I tell you crowd act out, harrassing and kicking people. I don’t see play how you want people insulting players for wrong builds, etc…accusing them being selfish and wasting people’s time … or kicking people from teams.

No, instead you see them asking for berserker gear to be nerfed, removed, and a serving of angry condescension, with phrases like “monkey rolling”, “zerkids”, “exploiters”, “stack and press random keys” and the obligatory “elitist” when someone says something they disagree with, because you just can’t have arguments without ad hominems being thrown around on this forum.

Both sides are in the wrong, but don’t pretend that the “play how you want” crowd is in the clear here, because they’re absolutely not.

There are extremists on EACH side but one thing I do know is that if a person truly believes people should play how they want, they won’t tell someone they aren’t playing the right build, complain about what builds others use or kick someone for using a certain build. On the other hand … ALL of those things originated from play how I tell you people and are still being practiced to some degree. Why are ‘elitists’ hated? Well, this sort of explains itself doesn’kitten

So far the only person that I see that deserves respect is Obal because he simply presents information on how to maximize DPS. There is no name calling, labeling, riot act, threats … You guys could learn something from his approach.

I’m playing how I want, in my own party that I create. People join and expect me to put up with how they want to play. They ignore my request in the lfg, they don’t care about pinging gear and somehow we are on equal footing when it comes to being in the wrong. I don’t think so. They can make their own parties the same as I make mine. I’m not forcing anything on them, they can choose to join my group and adhere to my rules or they can choose to make their own group with their own rules. Never have I joined their groups and told them off for running terrible builds or doing stupid crap because I respect their rules, now all I do is expect that in return and I get abuse hurled at me and labelled an elitist. Lol.

It’s probably because the “elitists” tend to have an air of “My way is right, your way is wrong” about them, which rubs people the wrong way. Their playstyle is undeniably the most efficient, and I don’t begrudge them for doing what they do really well. I still get my dungeon/Fractal completions with PHIW PUGs, so I don’t think it’s a real issue either.

However, if the power disparity between the two playstyles gets too wide over time, this can breed a “You’re having issues? Lern2zerk, noob.” mentality in the game where basically only one playstyle is deemed to be valid. I don’t think that’s a good thing. Variety and novelty are the spice of life; otherwise, why even bother having a choice of weapons or armor on characters when the only thing groups will accept are a select few choices? Frustrated players who have their playstyle rejected will leave, and this ultimately leads to stagnation where everybody is just running the same thing over and over using the same old “tried and true” methods. This then leads to boredom and players leaving. I’ve seen it happen in other MMO’s many times before.

I feel I should close by saying that the fault is not with the “elitists” or the “zerkers”. Players will ALWAYS gravitate to the best, most effective method of solving a problem. What ANet needs to ensure is that there are enough alternate solutions, each as effective and rewarding as each other, to give us a feeling of a new experience every time we do a dungeon or Fractal.

There needs to be one of those Captcha things that people have to fill out before they join a group to ensure that they read the lfg lol.

If theres one justified reason to hate on ‘the elitists’ (lol), its because of people who go into threads on these forums where people are trying to make a build that floats their boat and they get told they have to/should play meta. I get that people want to spread information about what is the most optimal and all that, but if people are making their own threads and minding their own business it seems pretty silly to me to go and preach the ways of zerker to them. They aren’t going into a ‘meta build’ thread and asking for help there, they made their own thread.

There are enough public resources available on these forums for people to decide whether or not they want to play meta. If someone makes a thread trying to put together a ‘unique’ build then let them be, they quite probably decided the meta builds weren’t their cup of tea.

There are other things as well but really as Obtena pointed out, the problem comes from extremists and no one side of this on-going drama is without blame.

Obtena.7952:

maha.7902:

Obtena.7952:

Morsus.5106:

I really don’t know. The play-how-you-want crowd are really hypocritical, because they’re getting mad at someone for playing how they want.

That’s not the problem at all. It’s when some of play how I tell you crowd act out, harrassing and kicking people. I don’t see play how you want people insulting players for wrong builds, etc…accusing them being selfish and wasting people’s time … or kicking people from teams.

No, instead you see them asking for berserker gear to be nerfed, removed, and a serving of angry condescension, with phrases like “monkey rolling”, “zerkids”, “exploiters”, “stack and press random keys” and the obligatory “elitist” when someone says something they disagree with, because you just can’t have arguments without ad hominems being thrown around on this forum.

Both sides are in the wrong, but don’t pretend that the “play how you want” crowd is in the clear here, because they’re absolutely not.

There are extremists on EACH side but one thing I do know is that if a person truly believes people should play how they want, they won’t tell someone they aren’t playing the right build, complain about what builds others use or kick someone for using a certain build. On the other hand … ALL of those things originated from play how I tell you people and are still being practiced to some degree. Why are ‘elitists’ hated? Well, this sort of explains itself doesn’kitten

So far the only person that I see that deserves respect is Obal because he simply presents information on how to maximize DPS. There is no name calling, labeling, riot act, threats … You guys could learn something from his approach.

Clearly my teaching of others and willingness to let people play what they want, while willing to show them alternatives if they are curious is not worthy of any sort of respect.

I feel like people who are not willing to adapt to different situation in dungeon (I.E. using Wall of reflection, blind spam, weakness, etc.) is like trying to tank on a healer in WoW, or trying to DPS on a healer,

If you’re going to do something, better make sure you are doing it right, for your own sake and your party.

why are we labeling them as elitist? They are just better players

J Eberle.9312:

I’m playing how I want, in my own party that I create. People join and expect me to put up with how they want to play. They ignore my request in the lfg, they don’t care about pinging gear and somehow we are on equal footing when it comes to being in the wrong. I don’t think so. They can make their own parties the same as I make mine. I’m not forcing anything on them, they can choose to join my group and adhere to my rules or they can choose to make their own group with their own rules. Never have I joined their groups and told them off for running terrible builds or doing stupid crap because I respect their rules, now all I do is expect that in return and I get abuse hurled at me and labelled an elitist. Lol.

Exactly.

Party labeled “80” I expect everyone to be level 80
Party labeled “exp” I expect everyone to know what to do.
Party labeled “Zerk” I expect everyone to be in zerker gear (or assassin)
Party unlabeled or labeled “fun run” or something, then I have no expectations as none were given.

It’s really as simple as that. I’ve been in far fewer groups that were open to anything and had zerker people come in and complain than I have had people come into parties labeled 80 zerk exp and ignore those.

The term “elitist” is used as a catch all “I did not enjoy playing with that player” sort of insult. It’s about as worthy of rescue as “newbie” or “casual” anymore… not really worth it.

Might as well filter all of ’em to “kitten”

However, if the advertisement for the party says “wear a funny hat”*, I expect folks to wear a funny hat, or not join.

*standing in for any restriction

Trice.4598:

your party.

The thing PHIWs don’t care about. The thing I value the most over everything else.
If – unless you’re trolling with your friends or doing a drunk run – you value doing “your own thing” over the well-being of your party (I won’t take wor at shaman lvl 50 because I’m signet guardian! dps burn build! <— heard so many of this kind it’s revolting…), you’re not worthy of any respect in my eyes. No, I don’t care if you’re “having fun” while your team dies because you don’t pull your own weight and refuse to use a critical skill at a critical moment. I’ll hate you and despise you for that because you put yourself in front of 4 other people that trusted you. I don’t care if you want to play how you want. Off the door you go, with a kick in the kitty.

I’ll never manage to get on well with a PHIW, we’re just too different >.< Why, why would you be spamming staff 1 even if they ask you not to, while your team needs you… especially if you’re pugging… I don’t even…
/walks away mumbling

Obtena.7952:

Morsus.5106:

I really don’t know. The play-how-you-want crowd are really hypocritical, because they’re getting mad at someone for playing how they want.

That’s not the problem at all. It’s when some of play how I tell you crowd act out, harrassing and kicking people. I don’t see play how you want people insulting players for wrong builds, etc…accusing them being selfish and wasting people’s time … or kicking people from teams because they dodged a half second too late.

Play how you want people aren’t hypocrites because they don’t care what you want to do.

If that is true, then why are there tons of posts of this sort of people complaining that they were kicked from a run? The players who kicked them were just playing the way they wanted, meaning without the kicked players. Quite simple, really. Your post is hillarious. More, please!

deSade.9437:

you put yourself in front of 4 other people that trusted you.

This. Such simple words. Really describes how I feel.

deSade, I present to you today’s prestigous +1 Award.

And I’m off to bed.

The only "elitists" I see as "evil" are the ones who post LFGs like "5 war 5k+ AP no noobs" and then kick people for no reason, refusing to acknowledge their own weaknesses.

Axelwarrior.9084:

The only “elitists” I see as “evil” are the ones who post LFGs like “5 war 5k+ AP no noobs” and then kick people for no reason, refusing to acknowledge their own weaknesses.

Why? Anyone who joins that group probably derserves a kick for being stupid along with the host.

I think i’m a little elitist zerk jerk (lol it rhymes) but only if i play with my full ascended elementalist. And we all know how much a gold sink is to craft entire light armor and ascended backitem (i have shiny fractal one) and 3 ascended weapons. If i spent gold and gold and so much effin gold on these items, if i run lvl 50 i prefer people to have proper ar and not die every time instability hits. I prefer to do a quick run with reasonable people and not leechers that spam autoattack from max range while i’m sticking my neck in front row with my 14k health and actually use dodge unlike the ranged people. I like not to wipe 7 times on the boss and do as much dmg as possible because being in dungeon 3+ hours is not appealing to me. And if i, filthy casual crafted my zerk armor and weapons with no grinding whatsoever…. please. I just want a smooth run with people who know what to do, if i’m elitist jerk because of that, so be it.

I prefer the term “Anti-Casual” over “elitist jerk”

J Eberle.9312:

I’m playing how I want, in my own party that I create. People join and expect me to put up with how they want to play. They ignore my request in the lfg, they don’t care about pinging gear and somehow we are on equal footing when it comes to being in the wrong. I don’t think so. They can make their own parties the same as I make mine. I’m not forcing anything on them, they can choose to join my group and adhere to my rules or they can choose to make their own group with their own rules. Never have I joined their groups and told them off for running terrible builds or doing stupid crap because I respect their rules, now all I do is expect that in return and I get abuse hurled at me and labelled an elitist. Lol.

That’s a nice story but play how I tell you people have been hating on play how I want people since BEFORE the LFG thing was established. You aren’t a victim, but you certainly have created an atmosphere of intolerance in both groups.

Obtena.7952:

J Eberle.9312:

I’m playing how I want, in my own party that I create. People join and expect me to put up with how they want to play. They ignore my request in the lfg, they don’t care about pinging gear and somehow we are on equal footing when it comes to being in the wrong. I don’t think so. They can make their own parties the same as I make mine. I’m not forcing anything on them, they can choose to join my group and adhere to my rules or they can choose to make their own group with their own rules. Never have I joined their groups and told them off for running terrible builds or doing stupid crap because I respect their rules, now all I do is expect that in return and I get abuse hurled at me and labelled an elitist. Lol.

That’s a nice story but play how I tell you people have been hating on play how I want people since BEFORE the LFG thing was established.

That’s irrelevant and doesn’t take away from the fact that this is happening.

SkyFallsInThunder.8257:

Obtena.7952:

Morsus.5106:

I really don’t know. The play-how-you-want crowd are really hypocritical, because they’re getting mad at someone for playing how they want.

That’s not the problem at all. It’s when some of play how I tell you crowd act out, harrassing and kicking people. I don’t see play how you want people insulting players for wrong builds, etc…accusing them being selfish and wasting people’s time … or kicking people from teams because they dodged a half second too late.

Play how you want people aren’t hypocrites because they don’t care what you want to do.

If that is true, then why are there tons of posts of this sort of people complaining that they were kicked from a run? The players who kicked them were just playing the way they wanted, meaning without the kicked players. Quite simple, really. Your post is hillarious. More, please!

OK, let follow this bit of stupidity you posted … Play how I want people are hypocrits because … they are complaining they got kicked. Explain …

J Eberle.9312:

Obtena.7952:

J Eberle.9312:

I’m playing how I want, in my own party that I create. People join and expect me to put up with how they want to play. They ignore my request in the lfg, they don’t care about pinging gear and somehow we are on equal footing when it comes to being in the wrong. I don’t think so. They can make their own parties the same as I make mine. I’m not forcing anything on them, they can choose to join my group and adhere to my rules or they can choose to make their own group with their own rules. Never have I joined their groups and told them off for running terrible builds or doing stupid crap because I respect their rules, now all I do is expect that in return and I get abuse hurled at me and labelled an elitist. Lol.

That’s a nice story but play how I tell you people have been hating on play how I want people since BEFORE the LFG thing was established.

That’s irrelevant and doesn’t take away from the fact that this is happening.

I’m not arguing it’s not happening … I don’t even get the point of bringing it up.

Here is an interesting mind experiment … make a game where 100% of the people that play it play how they want … would that game have all of these hateful threads about elitists, etc….? You guys aren’t recognizing that cause and effect here. You slap a guy, he slaps you back. Now your complaining you got slapped? That’s some good revisionist history there.

Obtena.7952:

J Eberle.9312:

Obtena.7952:

J Eberle.9312:

I’m playing how I want, in my own party that I create. People join and expect me to put up with how they want to play. They ignore my request in the lfg, they don’t care about pinging gear and somehow we are on equal footing when it comes to being in the wrong. I don’t think so. They can make their own parties the same as I make mine. I’m not forcing anything on them, they can choose to join my group and adhere to my rules or they can choose to make their own group with their own rules. Never have I joined their groups and told them off for running terrible builds or doing stupid crap because I respect their rules, now all I do is expect that in return and I get abuse hurled at me and labelled an elitist. Lol.

That’s a nice story but play how I tell you people have been hating on play how I want people since BEFORE the LFG thing was established.

That’s irrelevant and doesn’t take away from the fact that this is happening.

I’m not arguing it’s not happening … I don’t even get the point of bringing it up.

Here is an interesting mind experiment … make a game where 100% of the people that play it play how they want … would that game have all of these hateful threads about elitists, etc….? You guys aren’t recognizing that cause and effect here. You slap a guy, he slaps you back. Now your complaining you got slapped? That’s some good revisionist history there.

Sorry not seeing how me making my own party, minding my own business and then having people ignore my requirements and abuse me = my fault.

J Eberle.9312:

Obtena.7952:

J Eberle.9312:

Obtena.7952:

J Eberle.9312:

I’m playing how I want, in my own party that I create. People join and expect me to put up with how they want to play. They ignore my request in the lfg, they don’t care about pinging gear and somehow we are on equal footing when it comes to being in the wrong. I don’t think so. They can make their own parties the same as I make mine. I’m not forcing anything on them, they can choose to join my group and adhere to my rules or they can choose to make their own group with their own rules. Never have I joined their groups and told them off for running terrible builds or doing stupid crap because I respect their rules, now all I do is expect that in return and I get abuse hurled at me and labelled an elitist. Lol.

That’s a nice story but play how I tell you people have been hating on play how I want people since BEFORE the LFG thing was established.

That’s irrelevant and doesn’t take away from the fact that this is happening.

I’m not arguing it’s not happening … I don’t even get the point of bringing it up.

Here is an interesting mind experiment … make a game where 100% of the people that play it play how they want … would that game have all of these hateful threads about elitists, etc….? You guys aren’t recognizing that cause and effect here. You slap a guy, he slaps you back. Now your complaining you got slapped? That’s some good revisionist history there.

Sorry not seeing how me making my own party, minding my own business and then having people ignore my requirements and abuse me = my fault.

Of course not … you haven’t done anything to promote intolerance in the game ever ><

Obtena.7952:

J Eberle.9312:

Obtena.7952:

J Eberle.9312:

Obtena.7952:

J Eberle.9312:

I’m playing how I want, in my own party that I create. People join and expect me to put up with how they want to play. They ignore my request in the lfg, they don’t care about pinging gear and somehow we are on equal footing when it comes to being in the wrong. I don’t think so. They can make their own parties the same as I make mine. I’m not forcing anything on them, they can choose to join my group and adhere to my rules or they can choose to make their own group with their own rules. Never have I joined their groups and told them off for running terrible builds or doing stupid crap because I respect their rules, now all I do is expect that in return and I get abuse hurled at me and labelled an elitist. Lol.

That’s a nice story but play how I tell you people have been hating on play how I want people since BEFORE the LFG thing was established.

That’s irrelevant and doesn’t take away from the fact that this is happening.

I’m not arguing it’s not happening … I don’t even get the point of bringing it up.

Here is an interesting mind experiment … make a game where 100% of the people that play it play how they want … would that game have all of these hateful threads about elitists, etc….? You guys aren’t recognizing that cause and effect here. You slap a guy, he slaps you back. Now your complaining you got slapped? That’s some good revisionist history there.

Sorry not seeing how me making my own party, minding my own business and then having people ignore my requirements and abuse me = my fault.

Of course not … you haven’t done anything to promote intolerance in the game ever ><

I surely haven’t. I’m a nice person! Ask my references! :D

People can magically tell who has done bad things just so they can go and invade their parties and throw abuse?

You should just accept that some people are intolerable scum that will go out of their way to impose their ideals on others. This happens from both sides obviously. But ive witnessed more white knight PHIW’s than abusive elitists. Never forget the times ive had my instance destroyed while selling because someone didnt like it.

Some people just know if you have an evil character.