Guild Wars 2

IndigoSundown.5419:

Vayne.8563:

Except that Guild Wars 1 sold 7 million copies of 3 games….not 7 million copies of one game. They aren’t saying 7 million copies of Prophecies sold. So I personally bought 6 of those copies sold (since I had two full accounts). My wife bought another 6.

Fixed that for you.

Eye of the North could not be played without owning at least one of the 3 campaigns.

Are you 100% certain they’re not counting Eye of the North as sales?

Astralporing.1957:

Vayne.8563:

Astralporing.1957:

coglin.1867:

Considering GW2 sold 7 times more copies the GW did. you would need 3 times the population GW1 ever reached just to hit 40%-50% of the GW2 player base.

The last info places GW2 currently at 3.5 mil copies sold, and a peak concurrency of about 460 k people playing at once (which happened during first months, by the way, i doubt we get as high nowadays). That’s still less than number of GW1 copies sold.
Of course, GW2 is out for only a year, so it has still a lot of time to catch up, but claiming that it has sold 7 times GW1 copies is a flat out lie. It still has to equal it, in truth.

Except that Guild Wars 1 sold 7 million copies of 4 games….not 7 million copies one one game. They aren’t saying 7 million copies of Prophecies sold. So I personally bought 8 of those copies sold (since I had two full accounts). My wife bought another 8.

That means that probably there are a whole lot less individual Guild Wars 1 consumers than Guild Wars 2 consumers to date.

Even if we assume that we have to divide the total number of copies sold by 4, we still get 1.75 mil full accounts. That’s much higher than 7 times less than GW2 has now. And the actual numbers are higher than 1.75, because not every account was a full one, and bundle sales (all 4 campaigns + EotN in one pack) were treated as one sale, not four. So in the end, while the number of consumer accounts for GW1 might have been smaller, it was still high enough to make the 40% figure a very distinct possibility.
(no, the fact that there were people like you that bought more than one account is completely irrelevant, because there are people like it in this game as well).

Sure, but those 7 million copies happened in 7 years…not in 1 year. When Guild Wars 1 was this old, how many copies did it sell.

I’d wager it’s a lot less than Guild Wars 2 has, that’s my point.

I’d go as far to wager that Guild Wars 2, by the time it’s as old as Guild Wars 1 (assuming it’s still going), will have made for the company many times the amount of money. Obviously if they don’t come out with expansions you wouldn’t be able to compare sales, but you would be able to compare profit.

Guild Wars 1 was a niche game. Guild Wars 2 seems to be shaping up into a niche game too…I think it’s a bigger niche.

That is to say, by dumbing down the game, which has clearly been done, you can appeal to a wider range of people…just not necessarily the same people.

Vayne.8563:

Astralporing.1957:

Vayne.8563:

Astralporing.1957:

coglin.1867:

Considering GW2 sold 7 times more copies the GW did. you would need 3 times the population GW1 ever reached just to hit 40%-50% of the GW2 player base.

The last info places GW2 currently at 3.5 mil copies sold, and a peak concurrency of about 460 k people playing at once (which happened during first months, by the way, i doubt we get as high nowadays). That’s still less than number of GW1 copies sold.
Of course, GW2 is out for only a year, so it has still a lot of time to catch up, but claiming that it has sold 7 times GW1 copies is a flat out lie. It still has to equal it, in truth.

Except that Guild Wars 1 sold 7 million copies of 4 games….not 7 million copies one one game. They aren’t saying 7 million copies of Prophecies sold. So I personally bought 8 of those copies sold (since I had two full accounts). My wife bought another 8.

That means that probably there are a whole lot less individual Guild Wars 1 consumers than Guild Wars 2 consumers to date.

Even if we assume that we have to divide the total number of copies sold by 4, we still get 1.75 mil full accounts. That’s much higher than 7 times less than GW2 has now. And the actual numbers are higher than 1.75, because not every account was a full one, and bundle sales (all 4 campaigns + EotN in one pack) were treated as one sale, not four. So in the end, while the number of consumer accounts for GW1 might have been smaller, it was still high enough to make the 40% figure a very distinct possibility.
(no, the fact that there were people like you that bought more than one account is completely irrelevant, because there are people like it in this game as well).

Sure, but those 7 million copies happened in 7 years…not in 1 year. When Guild Wars 1 was this old, how many copies did it sell.

I’d wager it’s a lot less than Guild Wars 2 has, that’s my point.

I’d go as far to wager that Guild Wars 2, by the time it’s as old as Guild Wars 1 (assuming it’s still going), will have made for the company many times the amount of money. Obviously if they don’t come out with expansions you wouldn’t be able to compare sales, but you would be able to compare profit.

Guild Wars 1 was a niche game. Guild Wars 2 seems to be shaping up into a niche game too…I think it’s a bigger niche.

That is to say, by dumbing down the game, which has clearly been done, you can appeal to a wider range of people…just not necessarily the same people.

That’s what WoW did and look what’s happening to that game

Vayne.8563:

Astralporing.1957:

Vayne.8563:

Astralporing.1957:

coglin.1867:

Considering GW2 sold 7 times more copies the GW did. you would need 3 times the population GW1 ever reached just to hit 40%-50% of the GW2 player base.

The last info places GW2 currently at 3.5 mil copies sold, and a peak concurrency of about 460 k people playing at once (which happened during first months, by the way, i doubt we get as high nowadays). That’s still less than number of GW1 copies sold.
Of course, GW2 is out for only a year, so it has still a lot of time to catch up, but claiming that it has sold 7 times GW1 copies is a flat out lie. It still has to equal it, in truth.

Except that Guild Wars 1 sold 7 million copies of 4 games….not 7 million copies one one game. They aren’t saying 7 million copies of Prophecies sold. So I personally bought 8 of those copies sold (since I had two full accounts). My wife bought another 8.

That means that probably there are a whole lot less individual Guild Wars 1 consumers than Guild Wars 2 consumers to date.

Even if we assume that we have to divide the total number of copies sold by 4, we still get 1.75 mil full accounts. That’s much higher than 7 times less than GW2 has now. And the actual numbers are higher than 1.75, because not every account was a full one, and bundle sales (all 4 campaigns + EotN in one pack) were treated as one sale, not four. So in the end, while the number of consumer accounts for GW1 might have been smaller, it was still high enough to make the 40% figure a very distinct possibility.
(no, the fact that there were people like you that bought more than one account is completely irrelevant, because there are people like it in this game as well).

Sure, but those 7 million copies happened in 7 years…not in 1 year. When Guild Wars 1 was this old, how many copies did it sell.

And? Please reread my original post, and the post that i was responding to, and then tell me how what you say now is relevant.

Hint: i will point you to the certain part of my post:

Of course, GW2 is out for only a year, so it has still a lot of time to catch up, but claiming that it has sold 7 times GW1 copies is a flat out lie.

The rest of what you wrote (about how much money Gw2 may make compared to GW1) was completely out of the blue, with no connection whatsoever to what was being discussed. I don’t know why you decided to include that at all.

[/quote]
That is to say, by dumbing down the game, which has clearly been done, you can appeal to a wider range of people…just not necessarily the same people.[/quote]

^^This
I always said I don’t need to use my brain to play GW2 (never won GvG game in GW1 but loved the challenge)
Spam /dodge/ get out of the red circle
It is a game for kids
It does not matter how many copies GW2 sells It is not fun as GW1.

Astralporing.1957:

Vayne.8563:

Astralporing.1957:

Vayne.8563:

Astralporing.1957:

coglin.1867:

Considering GW2 sold 7 times more copies the GW did. you would need 3 times the population GW1 ever reached just to hit 40%-50% of the GW2 player base.

The last info places GW2 currently at 3.5 mil copies sold, and a peak concurrency of about 460 k people playing at once (which happened during first months, by the way, i doubt we get as high nowadays). That’s still less than number of GW1 copies sold.
Of course, GW2 is out for only a year, so it has still a lot of time to catch up, but claiming that it has sold 7 times GW1 copies is a flat out lie. It still has to equal it, in truth.

Except that Guild Wars 1 sold 7 million copies of 4 games….not 7 million copies one one game. They aren’t saying 7 million copies of Prophecies sold. So I personally bought 8 of those copies sold (since I had two full accounts). My wife bought another 8.

That means that probably there are a whole lot less individual Guild Wars 1 consumers than Guild Wars 2 consumers to date.

Even if we assume that we have to divide the total number of copies sold by 4, we still get 1.75 mil full accounts. That’s much higher than 7 times less than GW2 has now. And the actual numbers are higher than 1.75, because not every account was a full one, and bundle sales (all 4 campaigns + EotN in one pack) were treated as one sale, not four. So in the end, while the number of consumer accounts for GW1 might have been smaller, it was still high enough to make the 40% figure a very distinct possibility.
(no, the fact that there were people like you that bought more than one account is completely irrelevant, because there are people like it in this game as well).

Sure, but those 7 million copies happened in 7 years…not in 1 year. When Guild Wars 1 was this old, how many copies did it sell.

And? Please reread my original post, and the post that i was responding to, and then tell me how what you say now is relevant.

Hint: i will point you to the certain part of my post:

Of course, GW2 is out for only a year, so it has still a lot of time to catch up, but claiming that it has sold 7 times GW1 copies is a flat out lie.

The rest of what you wrote (about how much money Gw2 may make compared to GW1) was completely out of the blue, with no connection whatsoever to what was being discussed. I don’t know why you decided to include that at all.

Obviously there’s a thought process you’re missing.

By the end of year 1, Guild Wars 1 came out with Factions. That would have added to the number of sales by the end fo the first year. Guild Wars 2 is using a different method to provide content. One that doesn’t involve sales.

Let’s say 2 million people bought Prophecies during the first year (I have no idea if that’s how many did, but let’s pretend). And let’s pretend that 1.5 million of them bought factions. That would bring Guild Wars 1 up to 3.5 million sales, but only two million players.

Anet didn’t release an expansion, so the success of the game can’t really be shown by how many sales it made, once Factions came out. You’re no longer comparing apples to apples.

But you can compare how much each game made.

That, of course, has it’s own drawbacks, but it’s about as reasonable as trying to compare sales directly.

Vayne.8563:

Obviously there’s a thought process you’re missing.

By the end of year 1, Guild Wars 1 came out with Factions. That would have added to the number of sales by the end fo the first year. Guild Wars 2 is using a different method to provide content. One that doesn’t involve sales.

Let’s say 2 million people bought Prophecies during the first year (I have no idea if that’s how many did, but let’s pretend). And let’s pretend that 1.5 million of them bought factions. That would bring Guild Wars 1 up to 3.5 million sales, but only two million players.

Anet didn’t release an expansion, so the success of the game can’t really be shown by how many sales it made, once Factions came out. You’re no longer comparing apples to apples.

But you can compare how much each game made.

That, of course, has it’s own drawbacks, but it’s about as reasonable as trying to compare sales directly.

While that thought process is fine and dandy, I’m not sure how it’s relevant to the discussion at hand; pertaining to the “carryover” of player from GW1 to GW2.

I do suspect that percentage of veterans IS lower than us veterans would like to admit, though.

chemiclord.3978:

Vayne.8563:

Obviously there’s a thought process you’re missing.

By the end of year 1, Guild Wars 1 came out with Factions. That would have added to the number of sales by the end fo the first year. Guild Wars 2 is using a different method to provide content. One that doesn’t involve sales.

Let’s say 2 million people bought Prophecies during the first year (I have no idea if that’s how many did, but let’s pretend). And let’s pretend that 1.5 million of them bought factions. That would bring Guild Wars 1 up to 3.5 million sales, but only two million players.

Anet didn’t release an expansion, so the success of the game can’t really be shown by how many sales it made, once Factions came out. You’re no longer comparing apples to apples.

But you can compare how much each game made.

That, of course, has it’s own drawbacks, but it’s about as reasonable as trying to compare sales directly.

While that thought process is fine and dandy, I’m not sure how it’s relevant to the discussion at hand; pertaining to the “carryover” of player from GW1 to GW2.

I do suspect that percentage of veterans IS lower than us veterans would like to admit, though.

It pertains to the conversation I was having. People have claimed in this thread that Guild Wars 1 was more successful than Guild Wars 2. I was answering and talking about that claim.

How is it relevant which game is more popular? Maybe it’s not relevant to people who played Guild Wars 1 and feel disenfranchised, but that’s surely not all Guild Wars 1 players, since some of us do like this game.

The other argument is that Guild Wars 1 was such a winning formula, it was so successful that they should have continued it. Of course, this project is much bigger in scope, with a bigger staff, and bigger expectations. So the popularity of Guild Wars 1, and how niche it was suddenly has to be questioned.

Were there truly enough hard core Guild Wars 1 fans to make this game a success, given the larger staff, the larger expectations and the scope of the game?

No one could say for sure, but I’m thinking there weren’t.

It was higher early on, but some of us are still around. I think that seeing more gw1 features make it to gw2 might bring some folks back.

coglin.1867:

Gandarel.5091:

I dare to say more than 50% of the GW2 playerbase came from GW1. Or at least 40%.

Honestly this mentality is one of the serious issues this game has. Sooooooo many posters have no concept of actual facts when compared to their presumption of things.

Considering GW2 sold 7 times more copies the GW did. you would need 3 times the population GW1 ever reached just to hit 40%-50% of the GW2 player base.

GW2 is a good game. It is not GW1 or a remake of it. It is a new game based on the same lore. It is a solid game, and one of the fastest selling MMOs for a very good reason. If you dislike the game as some of you in this thread appear to, then don’t play it. Its okay. Everyone cannot like everything. But some of the demands here are just ludicrous. Its like people would rather demand odd or insignificant changes to suit them personally, just to let the game fail because those wants are illogical to expect the general public to desire as well.

GW1 sold nearly 7 million copies, counting the expansions, while GW2 sold 3 millions. Since not everyone had all of them and Complete Collection (which has all) counts as one, I’d say the GW1 population was 2-3 million. And most of them bought GW2. I srsly couldn’t really find too many guys who who didn’t, except the few that still plays GW1. But even some of them bought it and went back.

You are the one who should get his facts right. Next 5 times you go into a random dungeon pug, ask who played GW1. You will be shocked.

“One of the fastest selling MMOs” – would have been impossible to achieve without GW1, because those players gave the base population.

And actually, the lore has been changed to match the new plot of GW2.

Vayne.8563:

It pertains to the conversation I was having. People have claimed in this thread that Guild Wars 1 was more successful than Guild Wars 2. I was answering and talking about that claim.

Not true. The discussion you referenced was on topic of how much percentage of GW1 players are in GW2 (or were at start). Most of what you have said so far is completely irrelevant to that point.

Sleuth.7964:

Erick Alastor.3917:

I’ll try to post it again and if this lead (again) to the thread cancellation: my apologies.

From Eurogamer Expo 2013
Q: How close are you to the manifesto you posted before the game’s release?
A: Still hold core values but had to make some adjustments during development. Sometimes we have to stray away from what we have said in the past.

Let’s see what was declared with the manifesto:

Points they are still close to:

• The look of Guild Wars 2 is stylized. We’re going for a painterly, illustrated aesthetic.
• Cause and effect: A single decision made by a player cascades out in a chain of events.

Points from which they have decided to stray away:
- Guild Wars 2 takes everything you love about Guild Wars 1 and puts it into a persistent world.

• B2P sustaining itself mainly through the release of new campaigns. No.
• GvG? No.
• Guild halls. No.
• Guild capes. No.
• UW? FoW? Alliance battle? No.
• Focus on Horizontal progression? No.
• Secondary profession? No.
• Region free servers? No.
• Alliance system? No.
• Skills capturing? No.
• Heroes? No.
• Low and persisting level cap? No.
• Hard Mode? No.
• Costumes? No.
• Dances differentiated by profession and gender. No.
• Lore. Are you serious?
• Etc etc. No. xD

- A game that defies existing conventions: (old school Mmorpg vs. Guild Wars 2)

• Vertical Progression. -> Vertical Progression (but slower)
• Farming. -> Farming.
• Quest system. -> Renamed: Hearts, Dailies, Living Story.
• Raid. -> (World Bosses?) ~ Work in progress ~
• Trinity. DPS/Tank/Healer -> Redefined: Warrior-Guardian-Mesmer

- We just don’t want players to grind in Guild Wars 2. No one enjoys that. No one finds it fun. We want to change the way that people view combat.

• Open PvE: Join the zerg spam 1, dodge if required (if not, you will roam alone in an almost dead world)
• Interact with “put some random object name” in the world for hundreds of times.
• Kill “put some random mob name” in the world for hundreds of times.

- As a structure, the MMO has lost the ability to make the player feel like a hero. Everybody around you is doing the same thing you are doing.

• Run in circle (Frostgorge/Queensdale/…) to kill Champions doing the same things others are doing and in the same order at the same time.
• You make all the hard work during the personal story, a salad take the credits.

- We respect you—as a player, as a human being.

• So they decided to totally ignore our feedback on forum and close every thread that disagree with their decisions, without giving us any response.

Best post I’ve read in months quoting their manifesto catching them redhanded

It was actually me that asked that question at the Eurogamer dev chat (find the video on the Eurogamer youtube channel, goto 23 minutes and its the first question in the Q&A) and I actually asked it over other questions I had written down because the dev chat for “New content”, showed nothing new at all

Fair play to Erick Alastor.3917, for posting my question and the response by Mike Z. I was very annoyed at the response and every other question having a response of “Nothing is off the table”, which we all know is rubbish, as LOTS of things have been taken off the table already

Astralporing.1957:

Vayne.8563:

It pertains to the conversation I was having. People have claimed in this thread that Guild Wars 1 was more successful than Guild Wars 2. I was answering and talking about that claim.

Not true. The discussion you referenced was on topic of how much percentage of GW1 players are in GW2 (or were at start). Most of what you have said so far is completely irrelevant to that point.

Are you saying this conversation never took place? That no one said that one or the other sold more copies?

raptor.1064:

Anet hates GW1 players because they expect GW1 quality updates

they would be happy if all the GW1 players quit forever and stopped complaining

^This xD

Vayne.8563:

Astralporing.1957:

Vayne.8563:

It pertains to the conversation I was having. People have claimed in this thread that Guild Wars 1 was more successful than Guild Wars 2. I was answering and talking about that claim.

Not true. The discussion you referenced was on topic of how much percentage of GW1 players are in GW2 (or were at start). Most of what you have said so far is completely irrelevant to that point.

Are you saying this conversation never took place? That no one said that one or the other sold more copies?

…sometimes i think that you really don’t look at the posts you reply to.

Considering GW2 sold 7 times more copies the GW did. you would need 3 times the population GW1 ever reached just to hit 40%-50% of the GW2 player base.

This is what you tried to defend with your first reply, and what started the whole conversation.

Astralporing.1957:

Vayne.8563:

Astralporing.1957:

Vayne.8563:

It pertains to the conversation I was having. People have claimed in this thread that Guild Wars 1 was more successful than Guild Wars 2. I was answering and talking about that claim.

Not true. The discussion you referenced was on topic of how much percentage of GW1 players are in GW2 (or were at start). Most of what you have said so far is completely irrelevant to that point.

Are you saying this conversation never took place? That no one said that one or the other sold more copies?

…sometimes i think that you really don’t look at the posts you reply to.

Considering GW2 sold 7 times more copies the GW did. you would need 3 times the population GW1 ever reached just to hit 40%-50% of the GW2 player base.

This is what you tried to defend with your first reply, and what started the whole conversation.

Mate, give up. Arguing with Vayne is an endless war (no offense). :P

Astralporing.1957:

Vayne.8563:

Astralporing.1957:

Vayne.8563:

It pertains to the conversation I was having. People have claimed in this thread that Guild Wars 1 was more successful than Guild Wars 2. I was answering and talking about that claim.

Not true. The discussion you referenced was on topic of how much percentage of GW1 players are in GW2 (or were at start). Most of what you have said so far is completely irrelevant to that point.

Are you saying this conversation never took place? That no one said that one or the other sold more copies?

…sometimes i think that you really don’t look at the posts you reply to.

Considering GW2 sold 7 times more copies the GW did. you would need 3 times the population GW1 ever reached just to hit 40%-50% of the GW2 player base.

This is what you tried to defend with your first reply, and what started the whole conversation.

It remains true that there’s really no good way to compare the two. There’s no way that would work until Guild Wars 2 is out as long as Guild Wars 1 and has as many expansions. That’s all I’m trying to say, at this point anyway.

If people would stop responding the conversation would have died ages ago. lol

Vayne.8563:

If people would stop responding the conversation would have died ages ago. lol

Translation: I have to have the last word.

Vayne.8563:

If people would stop responding the conversation would have died ages ago. lol

So you can add another tick to your chalkboard on how many times you’ve won an argument on the forums through pure white knight word play?

Seems reasonable.

On topic:

GW2 might have sold a ton more copies than GW ever did, but GW retained more players during it’s time than GW2 did 2 months into the game. There’s a reason ANet releases those kittenty concurrencies and during the LS patches instead of player totals averaged over a quarter.

IndigoSundown.5419:

Vayne.8563:

If people would stop responding the conversation would have died ages ago. lol

Translation: I have to have the last word.

It’s Vayne, what you expect? Lol.

IndigoSundown.5419:

Vayne.8563:

If people would stop responding the conversation would have died ages ago. lol

Translation: I have to have the last word.

The real translation, however is quite different. I was raised at a time when you responded to people, rather than ignore them. It really is that simple. If I’m having a conversation and someone says something to me, I usually say something back. Not only if I disagree. It’s just because it’s how I was raised.

Skan.5301:

Vayne.8563:

If people would stop responding the conversation would have died ages ago. lol

So you can add another tick to your chalkboard on how many times you’ve won an argument on the forums through pure white knight word play?

Seems reasonable.

On topic:

GW2 might have sold a ton more copies than GW ever did, but GW retained more players during it’s time than GW2 did 2 months into the game. There’s a reason ANet releases those kittenty concurrencies and during the LS patches instead of player totals averaged over a quarter.

Many of the arguments I “win” are because the people who are arguing with me often have no data at all to back up their spurious claims.

And since I have agreed with negative things and posted my own negative things, your definition of white knight is probably substantively different from mine.

Vayne.8563:

It remains true that there’s really no good way to compare the two.

It is also true that you tried to defend a blatant lie with arguments that were completely irrelevant to the discussion at hand.

Vayne.8563:

If people would stop responding the conversation would have died ages ago. lol

Sure, if some people would stop responding to discussions they haven’t read only to post something not connected (or had the courage to admit they made a mistake, if they really feel the need to respond out of courtesy), we wouldn’t have this argument. Glad you have noticed that.

Astralporing.1957:

Vayne.8563:

It remains true that there’s really no good way to compare the two.

It is also true that you tried to defend a blatant lie with arguments that were completely irrelevant to the discussion at hand.

Astralporing.1957:

Of course, GW2 is out for only a year, so it has still a lot of time to catch up, but claiming that it has sold 7 times GW1 copies is a flat out lie. It still has to equal it, in truth.

I’m not trying to argue, but how do you know it is a lie? You keep making this accusation but show nothing to prove that it is a lie. Do you have some real data to back this up?

If you have no evidence, then that is a pretty inflammatory and unsubstantiated accusation.

I’ve already said earlier in this thread that I think it’s a mistake to try to compare GW1 unit sales directly with GW2 sales and try to come to any meaningful or useful comparison between the two. They both rolled with very different business models, and it’s just a difficult comparison all around, for several reasons. That said, if numbers are going to be part of the discussion, here are some numbers:

GW2 sold 3,500,00 games in its first year.

GW1 sold 3,000,000 units in about 20 months after launch, a window that saw all three campaigns, but not yet Eye of the North.The last press release on their official page is from 2009, celebrating 6,000,000 units. You can find other milestones on the press release page, but these two seem like the most significant or relevant.

coglin.1867:

Considering GW2 sold 7 times more copies the GW did. you would need 3 times the population GW1 ever reached just to hit 40%-50% of the GW2 player base.

I think this is the first case of someone using the “7 times” metric that people are referring to (though I didn’t look very thoroughly,) and it’s just nonsensical, especially without any context as to the sales window, what versions of the game are included, etc. GW1 hit 2,000,000 sales about 13 months after launch, which included the first month of Factions sales, which would, extremely roughly, put GW2 at 1.75 times the sales of GW1in a roughly comparable window. Of course, a lot of people who bought Prophecies probably bought factions, which means that anyone trying to use these sales numbers to estimate player population, without any better, more specific data, is just making stuff up / guestimating.

So, yeah, numbers are of very limited use here. Please enjoy numbers responsibly. Carry on.

Atlas.9704:

christiniae.7834:

And yes, I did want GW1 with better graphics! I miss that game but I can’t go back.

You can’t physically log back into GW1? Or is this more of an emotional thing due to completing the stories and such?

The one thing that stops me logging into GW1 in 2013 isn’t the graphics or the jumping, its the lack of populations, people moved on, not just to Guildwars 2 and to pass the really hard content playing Guildwars 1 entails you need a population, henchmen don’t cut it, sorry.

Would i like a Guildwars 1 with Guildwars 2 graphics and some mechanics added, hell yes, i don’t even care about jumping honestly.

The things most people forget here is the times, when GW1 sold 3-6 million copies it was going head to head with WoW at a time when WoW was super popular, it was the juggernaut at the time, and Guildwars 1 was the only real MMO of the day that was competing with it..

With Guildwars 2 it popped at a relatively dead period of the MMO genre, even WoW had had it’s time, so obviously everyone and their dog was hyped for it, it was the biggest hyped MMO..

Still 7 times the Guildwars 1 accounts, nope not a hope, last i read GW2 had 3mill accounts, GW1 doubled that at least.

Dante.1508:

Atlas.9704:

christiniae.7834:

And yes, I did want GW1 with better graphics! I miss that game but I can’t go back.

You can’t physically log back into GW1? Or is this more of an emotional thing due to completing the stories and such?

The one thing that stops me logging into GW1 in 2013 isn’t the graphics or the jumping, its the lack of populations, people moved on, not just to Guildwars 2 and to pass the really hard content playing Guildwars 1 entails you need a population, henchmen don’t cut it, sorry.

Would i like a Guildwars 1 with Guildwars 2 graphics and some mechanics added, hell yes, i don’t even care about jumping honestly.

The things most people forget here is the times, when GW1 sold 3-6 million copies it was going head to head with WoW at a time when WoW was super popular, it was the juggernaut at the time, and Guildwars 1 was the only real MMO of the day that was competing with it..

With Guildwars 2 it popped at a relatively dead period of the MMO genre, even WoW had had it’s time, so obviously everyone and their dog was hyped for it, it was the biggest hyped MMO..

Still 7 times the Guildwars 1 accounts, nope not a hope, last i read GW2 had 3mill accounts, GW1 doubled that at least.

I keep saying this and people keep ignoring it. Guild Wars 1 wasn’t going head to head with WoW and it was most certainly not an MMO. It has a different player base, looking for a different game and, more importantly, it had NO MONTHLY FEE.

We know from experience there are many people who adamantly refuse to pay a monthly fee, period. So for multiplayer fantasy games that were free to play when Guild Wars 1 launched, there was precisely one choice.

jheryn.8390:

I’m not trying to argue, but how do you know it is a lie? You keep making this accusation but show nothing to prove that it is a lie. Do you have some real data to back this up?

Yes, we know the numbers. The sales for GW2 has been announced at 3.5 million lately. This is also the number of accounts (so, max of 3.5 million accounts). We know that the last announced sales for GW1 were over 6 million units sold. This is less that 6 million accounts, of course, as each campaign when sold separately (and not in bundle) was counted also separately (unit is a sigle digital sale, or a single box – and box can contain either a single campaign/expansion, or a bundle). At worst (if we assume that every GW1 account is 3 campaigns and expansion, and we ignore bundles), that’s 1.5 mil accounts. The real number is higher of course – not everyone bought all campaigns (in fact, i bet a lot of people bought only one, and dropped the game), and there were unknown number of bundles. It cannot be estimated (and there’s no official info on number of accounts, so we can only guess here). It’s likely at least comparable with current GW2 numbers (yes, Vayne, yes, i know GW2 is much younger and can still grow, but the comparison involved its current, not future numbers).

coglin.1867:

Considering GW2 sold 7 times more copies the GW did. you would need 3 times the population GW1 ever reached just to hit 40%-50% of the GW2 player base.

For that statement to be true, GW2 would need to have over 10 million sales at the very least. It doesn’t come even close. Thus, the statement is a flat out lie.

The statement was not meant to be taken literally, it was an intended gross over exaggeration intended to mock the OPs gross exaggeration in claiming at lest 50% of all GW2 players came from GW1.

It does suggest much though, to see several of you ignore one lie, to bash another. Seems everyone is perfectly fine supporting fiction when it falls on their side of the line, but are zealots when it comes to condemning the other.

coglin.1867:

The statement was not meant to be taken literally, it was an intended gross over exaggeration intended to mock the OPs gross exaggeration in claiming at lest 50% of all GW2 players came from GW1.

It does suggest much though, to see several of you ignore one lie, to bash another. Seems everyone is perfectly fine supporting fiction when it falls on their side of the line, but are zealots when it comes to condemning the other.

I say this all the time, and there’s an element of truth to it. I often fight an exaggeration with an exaggeration…people are always willing to call me on it.

If someone says the game is dying, I say it’s prospering. Everyone is willing to let the first person go without a word of admonition even though there’s no evidence either way, but when I reply with a contrary position, people are quick to jump on me.

Astralporing.1957:

Yes, we know the numbers. The sales for GW2 has been announced at 3.5 million lately. This is also the number of accounts (so, max of 3.5 million accounts). We know that the last announced sales for GW1 were over 6 million units sold. This is less that 6 million accounts, of course, as each campaign when sold separately (and not in bundle) was counted also separately (unit is a sigle digital sale, or a single box – and box can contain either a single campaign/expansion, or a bundle).

You say you know the numbers, but not who or where you obtained them. I don’t disbelieve your numbers, I just want to know where you got them. I am wanting to do a little research on the game myself, and I want to know your source so I can look it up for myself. Again, I don’t disbelieve you, but there are a lot of people throwing a lot of numbers around.

Look at Redenaz post above mine – since he posted all the necessary links, i didn’t think it necessary to include them.
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/Arenanet-totally-forgot-GW1-fans/page/6#post3023336 <- here

coglin.1867:

The statement was not meant to be taken literally, it was an intended gross over exaggeration intended to mock the OPs gross exaggeration in claiming at lest 50% of all GW2 players came from GW1.

How do you know that it was a gross exaggeration? It’s certainly much, much closer to the truth than what you tried to claim. At least, it is within the realm of possibility, while yours clearly isn’t.

Who remembers “Adam and the Ants”? They started as a hard core punk band who betrayed their cult following by going mainstream for the money. That’s what happened with GW. The original GW1 much-stated core philosophy was ‘community play’ and ‘no grind’. Then came hero’s then came grinding.

Guys… ANET is a business and it’s in it for the money… Period… Get over it.

The GW1 hero’s meant anyone could do almost everything solo, the GW2 blandness between classes mean anyone can do GW2 alone, and the grinding meant more people staying for longer. It’s all about the money. So if you have any complaints / suggestions, make them useful in the context of ANET being a business.

But it’s not all bad. I used to watch with awe as GodlikeSatan solo’d the toughest dungeons in GW1. Now I watch Strife and team. But for the mere mortals among us we still have to join a group to do a dungeon, and that was not the case in the last years of GW1 with hero’s. So ANET have reintroduced something they lost in GW1. We’ll done ANET.

Personally, I hate the blandness between classes so that any class can do anything apart from dungeons. Hey, ANET, if dungeons do have to be done in teams then add specialist skills that only work with balanced teams.

Personally, I hate the real-money gouging that is sometimes so painfully obvious – anyone finished SAB without an infinite coin? But thats life and thats business.

Personally, there’s a number of things I hate about GW2. But I’m still playing the game, and so are you…

NightDreaming.8670:

Who remembers “Adam and the Ants”? They started as a hard core punk band who betrayed their cult following by going mainstream for the money. That’s what happened with GW. The original GW1 much-stated core philosophy was ‘community play’ and ‘no grind’. Then came hero’s then came grinding.

Guys… ANET is a business and it’s in it for the money… Period… Get over it.

The GW1 hero’s meant anyone could do almost everything solo, the GW2 blandness between classes mean anyone can do GW2 alone, and the grinding meant more people staying for longer. It’s all about the money. So if you have any complaints / suggestions, make them useful in the context of ANET being a business.

But it’s not all bad. I used to watch with awe as GodlikeSatan solo’d the toughest dungeons in GW1. Now I watch Strife and team. But for the mere mortals among us we still have to join a group to do a dungeon, and that was not the case in the last years of GW1 with hero’s. So ANET have reintroduced something they lost in GW1. We’ll done ANET.

Personally, I hate the blandness between classes so that any class can do anything apart from dungeons. Hey, ANET, if dungeons do have to be done in teams then add specialist skills that only work with balanced teams.

Personally, I hate the real-money gouging that is sometimes so painfully obvious – anyone finished SAB without an infinite coin? But thats life and thats business.

Personally, there’s a number of things I hate about GW2. But I’m still playing the game, and so are you…

If you don’t think there was grind in Guild Wars 1, you must have not played for very long. There was no grind FOR BIS gear.

Most of the quotes people bring up about grind don’t have anything about BIS gear in them.

I think you and I must have been playing a different game if you thought there was no grind in Guild Wars 1.

If nothing else grind for Luxon/Kurzick points, Lightbringer, the lucky title track and the wisdom title track (all of which granted in game benefits) were long, hard roads.

Vayne, yes of course there was a level of grind, but are you really comparing those in GW1 with the ‘achievements’ in GW2 or the acquisition of legendary items? They are worlds apart. On top of that is the soulbound mechanic which means you can’t choose to play for gold and buy your way through, you actually have to go do it. Personally I believe allowing different paths to achieve the same goal is a good idea.

Vayne.8563:

If nothing else grind for Luxon/Kurzick points, Lightbringer, the lucky title track and the wisdom title track (all of which granted in game benefits) were long, hard roads.

The Lux/Kurz & Lightbringer skill tracks were for a measly 1 skill per class. One.

And the lucky/wisdom tracks were convenience mechanics at best. All they did was spare you a few plat.

Long, hard road? Please.

NightDreaming.8670:

Vayne, yes of course there was a level of grind, but are you really comparing those in GW1 with the ‘achievements’ in GW2 or the acquisition of legendary items? They are worlds apart. On top of that is the soulbound mechanic which means you can’t choose to play for gold and buy your way through, you actually have to go do it. Personally I believe allowing different paths to achieve the same goal is a good idea.

I agree with you. I also think there should be different paths to the same goal. But you have to remember, there were stupid grinds in Guild Wars 1. Legendary Defender of Ascalon where you had to death level…which was silly.

But a lot of those titles and achievements were also achievable with no skill at all. You could get most missions and dungeons run for a relatively modest fee. You could leech points in the case of Asuran rep. You could get Legendary Survivor by facing Kilroy in a weekend. It was all just silly.

I’m not saying the achievements in this game are perfect or even good. I’m just saying that glorifying Guild Wars 1 when there was plenty of grind there isn’t going to change this game at all.

If you don’t like something in this game, don’t like it. But to say it wasn’t like this in Guild Wars 1….even if it was true (and in some cases it’s not), it’s not a strong argument for change.

A strong argument for change is some people don’t enjoy crafting. Some people don’t want to run fractals for an ascended back piece.

Those are good arguments.

I understand that everyone wants money. The question is about why someone as good as creators of GW1 decided to buy people with cheap marketing instead of quality and advanced community.
You know for example in GW1 even armor clipping between different sets was getting fixed… While in GW2 even mechanics are not anywhere near being in place. Not even to mention the outstanding (even though DX9) graphics… with eye-bleeding animations and skins.
I do feel this game going wrong way when my guildies tell me that hair clipping during any movement and 1 meter long daggers held at the very tip of handle is normal.

Ichishi.9613:

I understand that everyone wants money. The question is about why someone as good as creators of GW1 decided to buy people with cheap marketing instead of quality and advanced community.
You know for example in GW1 even armor clipping between different sets was getting fixed… While in GW2 even mechanics are not anywhere near being in place. Not even to mention the outstanding (even though DX9) graphics… with eye-bleeding animations and skins.
I do feel this game going wrong way when my guildies tell me that hair clipping during any movement and 1 meter long daggers held at the very tip of handle is normal.

Guild Wars 1 had exactly 1 race. That’s 1 set of fixes for everyone. There’s no way you can compare that with races that have different body types and styles. That’s why games that have a single race find it easier to fix clipping than games that have multiple races. The more varied the races, the harder it will be to fix clipping issues (or the more work it will be at any rate).

Ichishi.9613:

I understand that everyone wants money. The question is about why someone as good as creators of GW1 decided to buy people with cheap marketing instead of quality and advanced community.
You know for example in GW1 even armor clipping between different sets was getting fixed… While in GW2 even mechanics are not anywhere near being in place. Not even to mention the outstanding (even though DX9) graphics… with eye-bleeding animations and skins.
I do feel this game going wrong way when my guildies tell me that hair clipping during any movement and 1 meter long daggers held at the very tip of handle is normal.

Unfortunately, the ArenaNet that made GW1 and came up with the GW2 “manifesto” is not the same ArenaNet we have now

RIP ArenaNet

I don’t have an issue with the Ascended gear deal, even as a GW1 player. What I miss are Guild Halls, Cantha, Elona, some of the armor styles, the warped sense of humor (still around sometimes), missions, etc.

There was a lot of grind in GW1 too; if you wanted certain skins, or to max certain titles, etc, you absolutely had to grind.

I also miss some of the old titles. Why does maxing thirst slayer NOT reward folks with ‘Drunkard’ or ‘Incorrigible Ale-Hound’ like 1 did?

2 out of 3 of the GW developers left over ideas on how to proceed with GW2. Guess who and what the idea was and you’ll have the answer as to why GW2 is currently like this.

NightDreaming.8670:

Vayne, yes of course there was a level of grind, but are you really comparing those in GW1 with the ‘achievements’ in GW2 or the acquisition of legendary items? They are worlds apart. On top of that is the soulbound mechanic which means you can’t choose to play for gold and buy your way through, you actually have to go do it. Personally I believe allowing different paths to achieve the same goal is a good idea.

Both achievements and Legendaries are purely optional and either offer you pretty much negligible (eg. +1% gold) benefits or just cosmetics. Provides stuff to do for the hardcore players, which is a good thing.

Stuff being soulbound has its advantages, one being that it lets you show off your achievements. People raged at how Legendaries provided you with the alternative option of just buying it outright.

Skan.5301:

2 out of 3 of the GW developers left over ideas on how to proceed with GW2. Guess who and what the idea was and you’ll have the answer as to why GW2 is currently like this.

Evidence of this? Oh you mean two of the three FOUNDERS left. Founders aren’t necessarily the only devs. Have you looked at what those founders are doing now?

For one thing, Jeff Strain left Anet and was working for NcSoft directly before he ended up leaving NCsoft, so I’m not even sure that what you’re saying makes any sense.

Then he went to design a zombie MMO for consoles.

What evidence do you have that the two founders left because they didn’t like the direction the game was going in?

Dante.1508:

Atlas.9704:

christiniae.7834:

And yes, I did want GW1 with better graphics! I miss that game but I can’t go back.

You can’t physically log back into GW1? Or is this more of an emotional thing due to completing the stories and such?

The one thing that stops me logging into GW1 in 2013 isn’t the graphics or the jumping, its the lack of populations, people moved on, not just to Guildwars 2 and to pass the really hard content playing Guildwars 1 entails you need a population, henchmen don’t cut it, sorry.

Would i like a Guildwars 1 with Guildwars 2 graphics and some mechanics added, hell yes, i don’t even care about jumping honestly.

The things most people forget here is the times, when GW1 sold 3-6 million copies it was going head to head with WoW at a time when WoW was super popular, it was the juggernaut at the time, and Guildwars 1 was the only real MMO of the day that was competing with it..

With Guildwars 2 it popped at a relatively dead period of the MMO genre, even WoW had had it’s time, so obviously everyone and their dog was hyped for it, it was the biggest hyped MMO..

Still 7 times the Guildwars 1 accounts, nope not a hope, last i read GW2 had 3mill accounts, GW1 doubled that at least.

What?
You can’t do a piece of content in GW1 with only heroes?
All PvE is doable with 7 heroes, even Urgoz and the Deep.
And of course GW1 accounts are so cheap you can get a second one just for the extra 3 heroes in Urgoz/Deep.
HM DoA, Urgoz, Deep and Underworld might be a bit hard but still doable.

GW1 sold over 7 million boxes, not 7 million unique accounts.
Just in my house I have some 30 boxes.
4 boxes for my main account +2 collectors editions later on for the dances
4 boxes for my girl account +2 collectors editions later on for the dances
4 boxes for my 2nd account
4 boxes for my girl 2nd account
4 boxes for the account to hold the Guild Leader position
4 boxes for the kid
4 boxes for the 2nd kid

Yeah, 32 boxes, 4 players.

If those 7 million boxes represent 1 player that bought Prophecies box+Factions Box+Nightfall Box+GWEN box, it translate to 1.75 million players.

Now there are things I miss from GW1: Guild Halls, Heroes, Missions, the frontline-midline-backline style of combat (not so much the healing, but stuff like Aegis and shout chains, fighting mobs that fought like a group).

There are also things I dislike in GW2 like the ascended weapons, the all skin transmutation process ($/€10 for a single use armor skin, paying 100g for cultural armor that is only rare and require more CS items to be used), the way one needs a new armor set for each stats combo, the way the crafted rare 80s look better than the crafted exotic 80s.

But there are also strong positives like the individual combat (I prefer GW1 team combat, but at the individual level, GW2 is superior), the open world, the dynamic events.

Well the 2 out of 3 founders that left were responsible for horizontal progression and leveling system in gw1.

Ichishi.9613:

Well the 2 out of 3 founders that left were responsible for horizontal progression and leveling system in gw1.

Again evidence? Do you know that Mike O’Brien wasn’t responsible for the horizontal progression and leveling system in Guild Wars 1. Because he did work on both projects. So did Colin Johansan and Eric Flannum.

What evidence do you have of this? Because I’m a pretty hard core fan and I haven’t seen anything to back up what you say.

Ichishi.9613:

Well the 2 out of 3 founders that left were responsible for horizontal progression and leveling system in gw1.

And that is why TERA has horizontal progression and a low level cap system? (Patrick Wyatt is Chief Operations Officer for En Masse).
We will have to wait and see how the Zombie MMORPG for consoles from Jeff Strain works out. State of Decay a single player game is available for the Xbox360.

Swoo.5079:

Ichishi.9613:

Well the 2 out of 3 founders that left were responsible for horizontal progression and leveling system in gw1.

And that is why TERA has horizontal progression and a low level cap system? (Patrick Wyatt is Chief Operations Officer for En Masse).
We will have to wait and see how the Zombie MMORPG for consoles from Jeff Strain works out. State of Decay a single player game is available for the Xbox360.

I’d forgotten about that. One of the Anet devs IS in one of the main guys at En Masse now. That’s pretty fun, when you look at some of the claims.

Vayne.8563:

Do you know that Mike O’Brien wasn’t responsible for the horizontal progression and leveling system in Guild Wars 1.

No, we don’t know what he was (or wasn’t) responsible for. The same for other devs. All we know is that Mike O’Brian had clearly stated several times since GW2 started that he considered GW1 horizontal progression and levelling systems to be bad, and that he prefers vertical progression. Hard to say whether those were his original thoughts, or if he changed his mind at some point after GW1.