Guild Wars 2

Spammable static field is quite hilarious.

Isaac.6041:

I was never one to complain about buffs but from the unofficial release notes, it looks like almost every class is getting a ton of buffs and it’s a little disturbing.

Yes, ArenaNet in the past has nerfed many skills to the point of uselessness. But this patch seems to be going to the opposite extreme of making everything overpowered.

You can say no problem we all needed some buffs, but just remember the monsters will probably be buffed too.

Since I have an 80 of each class I’ll have a lot of new stuff to play with if all these changes are made. Hope they don’t make the game worse in the long run though.

link please?

Curo.2483:

As a mesmer, I think torment is going to be great for us. We have the lowest mobility, so enemies are often able to escape as easily. Torment will make that a bit harder for them now. However thieves have insane mobility and can already stick to you like glue. I don’t understand why they need torment. If you don’t move, a thief will kill you in about 2 seconds. For mesmers, unless we are running a specifically traited shatter zerker build, we aren’t going to kill you that fast, so hurting you when you run is not as devastating vs us as it is vs thieves.

I’m worried more about my warrior than my mesmer. If any class should get torment it should be the warrior, seeing how its mobility is second worst, next to the mesmer. An AoE torment via “Fear Me!” would be fantastic in helping warriors avoid being kited to death.

Zindrix.1750:

Isaac.6041:

I was never one to complain about buffs but from the unofficial release notes, it looks like almost every class is getting a ton of buffs and it’s a little disturbing.

Yes, ArenaNet in the past has nerfed many skills to the point of uselessness. But this patch seems to be going to the opposite extreme of making everything overpowered.

You can say no problem we all needed some buffs, but just remember the monsters will probably be buffed too.

Since I have an 80 of each class I’ll have a lot of new stuff to play with if all these changes are made. Hope they don’t make the game worse in the long run though.

Did you read the notes for Rangers? Ouch. I bet they were hoping for positive changes and instead they got spit in the face. I only leveled mine up for farming anyways, but I guess I’ll have to wait another 6 months until Anet decides to make them viable.

What’s coming for rangers?

Roman Legionary.6715:

link please?

Not 100% but I think he means this:

https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/upcoming-skill-and-trait-changes/

A welcomed change!

Weakness: Changed from 50% fumble on regular attacks to 25% fumble on all attacks. Now only stacks up to 5 times.

Not being dependent on crit is great, it can now be useful to mitigate burst damage in PvP and can be used consistently in PvE.

I would like some clarifications on the stacking though. What is stacking? How is it stacking in intensity? Does it still have a 50% proc chance?

What I said on the Guild Wars 2 Google + group:

Re the Torment Condition:
Actually think that is a good change if its used in the right skills. It also gives them the ability to include a movement impairing condition that could work on bosses without creating balance issues – so hopefully it will ignore/bypass defiant? and unshakeable.

On the patch notes overall:
This to me is looking like one of the better patches they will have ever done. It will do a lot to increase build diversity if it lives up the the claims in the article. More of this, less of my other recent concerns…?

And since for some reason no one in this thread bothered to link what they were actually discussing, here it is:
https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/upcoming-skill-and-trait-changes/

weakness is still weak.
should be 100% fumble (deal 50% damage) always

actually, they made it weaker! facepalm.jpg

the old weakness at least have a confirmed 50% damage reduction against non critical attacks.

Balkanwarrior.5132:

Zindrix.1750:

Isaac.6041:

I was never one to complain about buffs but from the unofficial release notes, it looks like almost every class is getting a ton of buffs and it’s a little disturbing.

Yes, ArenaNet in the past has nerfed many skills to the point of uselessness. But this patch seems to be going to the opposite extreme of making everything overpowered.

You can say no problem we all needed some buffs, but just remember the monsters will probably be buffed too.

Since I have an 80 of each class I’ll have a lot of new stuff to play with if all these changes are made. Hope they don’t make the game worse in the long run though.

Did you read the notes for Rangers? Ouch. I bet they were hoping for positive changes and instead they got spit in the face. I only leveled mine up for farming anyways, but I guess I’ll have to wait another 6 months until Anet decides to make them viable.

What’s coming for rangers?

Huge nerf to most pets’ damage . Since pets are about 25-50% of the dps rangers have , it’s a huge nerf . Anet is not even bothering themselves with buffing direct weapons damage other than some longbow buff (which still suck) .

Roman Legionary.6715:

link please?

Not posting it on here, because might get infracted for it.

Look on reddit, it’s on the GuildWars2 frontpage.

Deimos Tel Arin.7391:

weakness is still weak.

should be 100% fumble (deal 50% damage) always

Yeah, I read your post and then I realised it makes so much sense! It’s so obvious! How could I not see this? Weakness should be 90% damage reduction + 100% endurance degeneration and give you 3 ectos per cast as well!

Lévis.5489:

Balkanwarrior.5132:

Zindrix.1750:

Isaac.6041:

I was never one to complain about buffs but from the unofficial release notes, it looks like almost every class is getting a ton of buffs and it’s a little disturbing.

Yes, ArenaNet in the past has nerfed many skills to the point of uselessness. But this patch seems to be going to the opposite extreme of making everything overpowered.

You can say no problem we all needed some buffs, but just remember the monsters will probably be buffed too.

Since I have an 80 of each class I’ll have a lot of new stuff to play with if all these changes are made. Hope they don’t make the game worse in the long run though.

Did you read the notes for Rangers? Ouch. I bet they were hoping for positive changes and instead they got spit in the face. I only leveled mine up for farming anyways, but I guess I’ll have to wait another 6 months until Anet decides to make them viable.

What’s coming for rangers?

Huge nerf to most pets’ damage . Since pets are about 25-50% of the dps rangers have , it’s a huge nerf . Anet is not even bothering themselves with buffing direct weapons damage other than some longbow buff (which still suck) .

But it’s not every skill of every pet. Take the Jellyfish or example. I used that all the time. The damage output was way over the top. That’s how I was farming the armored scales with the sharks. I’d get five or six sharks, pop my F2 skill and watch their healths halve. It was too much.

Sure I loved it, but I recognized it was OP. Even at 50% down that skill is still viable. And the rest of the attack skills on the jellyfish weren’t nerfed.

Zelyhn.8069:

Deimos Tel Arin.7391:

weakness is still weak.

should be 100% fumble (deal 50% damage) always

Yeah, I read your post and then I realised it makes so much sense! It’s so obvious! How could I not see this? Weakness should be 90% damage reduction + 100% endurance degeneration and give you 3 ectos per cast as well!

ow. -90% damage reduction and -100% endurance regeneration is too much.

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Weakness
Endurance regeneration decreased by 50%; 50% of Non Critical hits are glancing blows (50% damage); stacks duration.

that is what we have as of now.

should be like this:
Endurance regeneration decreased by 50%; all attacks are glancing blows (50% damage); stacks duration.

the weakness in guild wars 1 is much stronger.
http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Weakness

Condition. While suffering from this Condition, you deal less damage with attacks and all of your attributes are reduced by 1.

Concise description: You deal 66% less damage with attacks and your attributes are reduced by 1.

it makes basic auto attacks deal very little damage.
extra damage from skills are not affected though.

Bright.9160:

Roman Legionary.6715:

link please?

Not posting it on here, because might get infracted for it.

Look on reddit, it’s on the GuildWars2 frontpage.

pffft

http://pastebin.com/2rrFg9pS

Lévis.5489:

Balkanwarrior.5132:

Zindrix.1750:

Isaac.6041:

I was never one to complain about buffs but from the unofficial release notes, it looks like almost every class is getting a ton of buffs and it’s a little disturbing.

Yes, ArenaNet in the past has nerfed many skills to the point of uselessness. But this patch seems to be going to the opposite extreme of making everything overpowered.

You can say no problem we all needed some buffs, but just remember the monsters will probably be buffed too.

Since I have an 80 of each class I’ll have a lot of new stuff to play with if all these changes are made. Hope they don’t make the game worse in the long run though.

Did you read the notes for Rangers? Ouch. I bet they were hoping for positive changes and instead they got spit in the face. I only leveled mine up for farming anyways, but I guess I’ll have to wait another 6 months until Anet decides to make them viable.

What’s coming for rangers?

Huge nerf to most pets’ damage . Since pets are about 25-50% of the dps rangers have , it’s a huge nerf . Anet is not even bothering themselves with buffing direct weapons damage other than some longbow buff (which still suck) .

Shortbow is down to 900 range as well.

Don’t you think I was being ironical ?

Anyway, can anyone give some explanations about the stacking?

Weakness currently stacks in duration, so only 5 stacks would mean it has a duration cap, though additional applications would just overwrite it. Since this doesn’t make sense, they probably changed it to stacking in intensity, like bleeding. That would mean 25% chance to fumble * # of stacks would be a max of 125% chance to fumble.

what’s ironical? dunno what that meant. sorry.

“Weakness: Changed from 50% fumble on regular attacks to 25% fumble on all attacks. Now only stacks up to 5 times.”

oh the stacking! hmmm.
no idea really. have to wait and see what it does i guess.

Healix.5819:

Weakness currently stacks in duration, so only 5 stacks would mean it has a duration cap, though additional applications would just overwrite it. Since this doesn’t make sense, they probably changed it to stacking in intensity, like bleeding. That would mean 25% chance to fumble * # of stacks would be a max of 125% chance to fumble.

Yeah that’s what I am confused about: 125% chance?
or maybe it stacks geometrically?

Viking Jorun.5413:

. If any class should get torment it should be the warrior, seeing how its mobility is second worst, next to the mesmer.

what ?_?
i think you should check better, warrior has the best mobility after thief

Vayne.8563:

Sure I loved it, but I recognized it was OP. Even at 50% down that skill is still viable. And the rest of the attack skills on the jellyfish weren’t nerfed.

Yep, because they barely have any other : skill 2 is an AoE heal and skill 3 an underwater smoke screen . Let’s face it, rangers have been nerfed to the grounds :

- Overall damages of pets decreased + leash range more than halved (2000 vs 5000) with no real compensation whatsoever from ranger own DD. While I agree it was needed in PvP (especially the leash range and the birds F2 damages), it is a shame for PvE. I mean, that’s not like we see rangers kicked every day from dungeons/fractals runs…

- Shortbow nerfed (again), range decreased with no compensation. They only added some damages to skills that are not use to damage the opponent. The longbow buff was needed but is not enough : skill 2 is still weaker than shortbow auto-attack and longbow auto attack damages are still meh.

- Where are the (real) spirits buffs ? Two traits have been merged, good, but what the point if spirits still die in seconds. Though I’d agree that the increased range is a step in the right direction.

Weakness will now cause all hits, both critical and non-critical, to have a chance to become a glancing blow. We went through and rebalanced a lot of the weakness durations for this change. We think this change will make the condition more meaningful and give it much more play.

you just made weakness even weaker.

make weakness to cause all hits to be glancing blows. then we’ll talk.

Bad things:
1. Torment to thieves
2. Condition removal with burst skills for warriors (you could already remove conditions with shouts). In Spvp it means that if condition types meet a team of warriors (possible to do, because now you’re allowed to enter with pre-made friends teams) condition types become utterly useless.
3. Stuns break with more abilities. I can see how it is good for PVE, but once again bad for Spvp. You chose a build with no stun breakers, another person chose a build heavy on stuns. Does that mean that now you can counter a certain build without even trying?
4. Elementalist grandmaster trait allowing instant air recharge. Sounds really useless to me.
Good things:
Torment for Necromancers.
I’ll see how it turns out when they release full patch notes. It doesn’t seem too bad so far, but it seems that this patch will imbalance more than it will balance.

I believe fear has a stack limit that prevents additional fear time being added once it hits that limit; this is likely to be the same.

Looking forward to how torment works in PvE and whether or not the AI will be smart enough to stop moving.

People genuinely are clueless if they think that Thieves are just getting a buff with these balance changes. I’m about 99.9% certain that the D/P build will take a hit in the Shadow Arts tree and I have no doubt that there will be adjustments made elsewhere too.

My main is a Thief and I “hope” they rebalance the D/D & D/P builds in order to prevent perma stealth, because it really is needed. In doing that however they need to make sure they buff other aspects of the class in order to leave those builds viable to some extent.

I really do want more build variety for the Thief because I personally find D/D & D/P to be extremely boring. A small buff to the S/D or even the S/P builds would be welcomed!!! Remove root from Pistol Whip!!!!

Zindrix.1750:

Lévis.5489:

Balkanwarrior.5132:

Zindrix.1750:

Isaac.6041:

I was never one to complain about buffs but from the unofficial release notes, it looks like almost every class is getting a ton of buffs and it’s a little disturbing.

Yes, ArenaNet in the past has nerfed many skills to the point of uselessness. But this patch seems to be going to the opposite extreme of making everything overpowered.

You can say no problem we all needed some buffs, but just remember the monsters will probably be buffed too.

Since I have an 80 of each class I’ll have a lot of new stuff to play with if all these changes are made. Hope they don’t make the game worse in the long run though.

Did you read the notes for Rangers? Ouch. I bet they were hoping for positive changes and instead they got spit in the face. I only leveled mine up for farming anyways, but I guess I’ll have to wait another 6 months until Anet decides to make them viable.

What’s coming for rangers?

Huge nerf to most pets’ damage . Since pets are about 25-50% of the dps rangers have , it’s a huge nerf . Anet is not even bothering themselves with buffing direct weapons damage other than some longbow buff (which still suck) .

Shortbow is down to 900 range as well.

Thief cluster bombs too.

It seems A net doesn’t want people to use short bows.

If any thing long bow needed a buff. Not having short bow nerfed until it was more useless than it.

Kain Francois.4328:

Hoping for nice engineer and ranger changes!

Looking at the leaked notes you shouldn´t expect much, just the same old theme: engi gets some half usefull stunbreakers removed and others added to skills which still nobody will take.

No stunbreaker or condi-removal on kits but one more condition added to the game.

Pistol-Grandmaster users get some love, the rest are mostly halfbaked changes without real impact – which I already consider good as an engi-player (aka no nerfs, especially to HGH – besides one more for Elixir R)

Kind of a side thought related to the new condition.

In terms of counter play, the condition to boon ratio is off. With a new condition entering the field, what is the counteractive boon to torment?

Aegis → Blind
Fury → (Weakness)
Might → (Weakness)
Protection → Vulnerability
Regeneration → Bleeding, Poison, Burning
Retaliation → Confusion
Stability → Fear
Swiftness → Chilled, Crippled, Immobilized, Torment
Vigor → Weakness

Even then, with condition conversion skills, these do not directly apply the mechanical counter play boon. The logic seems off.

Mobility and Regeneration are heavy stacked with conditions, while the remaining conditions are acting as multiple counter plays in a wishy washy way.

More boon/condition tactics would make combat a little more interesting in this game and add a new level of counter play on top of just condition spamming the target. Smart use of conditions and boons could add more skill the gamers.

just tried things out on the test server, and it seems well bala… oh wait.

I’m really excited to see that the Necromancers are getting Torment and the ability to apply burning effect. I’m new to the game and love my Necro, but am struggling with the lack of options in terms of varied conditions I can apply at any one time.

I have tried every profession, and think that the changes are good all over. I’m not concerned that the Thief and the Mesmer will become OP (or more OP if you already think they are), as it’s probable that other skills may be nerfed slightly, or the skills the receive may work in different ways.

From what I can see, Anet work extremely hard to give us balance, and yes, changes here and there knock some things out slightly and people need to adapt their builds to accommodate, but if nothing ever changed I feel we’d see the same number of complaints from all the same people.

CMF.5461:

Kind of a side thought related to the new condition.

In terms of counter play, the condition to boon ratio is off. With a new condition entering the field, what is the counteractive boon to torment?

Aegis -> Blind
Fury -> (Weakness)
Might -> (Weakness)
Protection -> Vulnerability
Regeneration -> Bleeding, Poison, Burning
Retaliation -> Confusion
Stability -> Fear
Swiftness -> Chilled, Crippled, Immobilized, Torment
Vigor -> Weakness

Even then, with condition conversion skills, these do not directly apply the mechanical counter play boon. The logic seems off.

Mobility and Regeneration are heavy stacked with conditions, while the remaining conditions are acting as multiple counter plays in a wishy washy way.

More boon/condition tactics would make combat a little more interesting in this game and add a new level of counter play on top of just condition spamming the target. Smart use of conditions and boons could add more skill the gamers.

Torment seems like a replacement for confusion. Seeing as confusion is very weak in PVE, yet PVE mobs are usually always moving. Making torment extremely effective.

Azure Prower.8701:

Torment seems like a replacement for confusion. Seeing as confusion is very weak in PVE, yet PVE mobs are usually always moving. Making torment extremely effective.

Yeah the direct translation of the boon/conditions is not real concrete. I took the dev wording on torment and applied it to a “movement” boon.

Still you make a very good point that confusion and retaliation are somewhat lack luster in pve due to the slow predictable attacks and that would make torment effective in kiting NPCs. Now the down side is that PvP those previous skills are strong so adding torment on top of them is a source of a lot of frustration for the community it seems.

i think that you are a pve player, and basiclly you dont care about balance patches, since mobs are stupid as your opinion.
Elixir R nerf no more stun breaker. o 40s CD for 2 more dodges? When you wanna use it ? when there is not stun at you ?
Nohing changed to kits, as i tought that engieer is a kit user, but not for arena.
Right now arena is forcing as to use rifle or pistol/pistol to burst down ONE kittenING target. Great combinaction. Super duper for WvW.
Slick Shoes pretty uselss, even when you will have from F stunbreaker. Im already on kittening perma swiftness, dont need this kitten anymore.
Rocket Boots 20s CD/No stunbreaker/no CC – great skill, pretty kittening usless again. Why i would use skill to jump into kittening zerg and just die ? How kittener you need to be. Even for runing, this kitten is usless, since you will get any stun and BYE BYE Engi.
From turret thumper, Rumble from F – 1s stability ? gimme kittening break i need to lose my utility to have a stunbreaker and turret, that i will never use ? WOW GENIUS.
In my opinion..
Arena have to much GENIUSES in thier company. If this patch notes are real, then right now im deleting my engineer, since he will be usless. Its clrearly for me that they dont care about kittening engineer. Its better for them to AGAIN and AGAIN and AGAIN buff kittening Mesmer and Thief, lets give them new condi, bcuz kittening thief and mesmer players, are to kittening kittener, to use shattering, so lets THIER TARGETS DONT MOVE LOL!
Im tired of this company. Im just glad that i made my necro for WvW.

So basically with torment on your only option is:
Melee: immobilize the enemy and teleport / rushing / leaping via skills to it
Ranged: Hit from the distance of course.

In both ways we should consider a few things before allarming:
- Would evading count as movement or is just WASD?
- Will this Torment last only a few seconds?

If above are true, maybe is acceptable, because it should be meant to limit your options, not to make you a standing target :/

lol yea I did love how, in the unofficial patch notes, 2 of the 3 most popular classes are getting buffed, while only 1 of the hugely unpopular classes is getting buffed. =D

They really REALLY seem to like having everyone playing one or two classes, huh? =D

Oh my ….
What Anet is doing to rangers is, frankly, unbelievable. I lost hope for this class months ago, but never expected something like this.

Anet might as well delete this class from the game,

Isaac.6041:

But this patch seems to be going to the opposite extreme of making everything overpowered.

How can “everything” be overpowered? Overpowered means that something or someone is powered over something or someone else…

Deimos Tel Arin.7391:

what if …

PvE monsters are able to dodge?

I’d never stop playing this game. Smart monsters

idk… lately everything just felt like fights took too long or i was unable to kill others… i like buffs more than nerfs for sure. so why complain… unless ur thief ofc…

IF the notes are true, they nerf 50% of the damage from pets that almost doesn´t hit a moving target anyways… kitten Ai sees to that…
so if they fix the “not hitting moving target thing” I have nothing against the nerf.
If not I really consider quitting the game for a bit.
My main is a Ranger and almost all my money got in his equipment…
And of course I am a BM Shortbow Ranger ^^
Both of the things more or less destroyed with this patch…. But I will wait and see for the original Notes…

From what I’ve seen so far, it looks like the three weakest classes are getting their just desserts and some people don’t like that apparently.

It’s about time imo.

the AI could have been enhanced and not listed because these are just leaked notes btw. not official.

and really they aren’t fixing everything they have just made some minor changes to the traits/skills that were problematic in the first place.

Deimos Tel Arin.7391:

what if …

PvE monsters are able to dodge?

Some use evasion abilities.

jalmari.3906:

I think anet simply went insane if they’re going to just give thief and mesmer new condition, especially condition like that. With current mechanics you need to MOVE to avoid their attacks (which somewhat instakill you if you don’t) and now you’d just get damage for doing it. Way to go. Clever. Good work etc.

I just hope this also means thief and mesmer get a meganerf at same time. i.e. Mesmer GS loses 20% dmg and vuln from autoattack and thief loses stealth from dagger 5.

mesmer autoattack doesn’t deal vulnerability, is the attack number 2! the torment according to the unofficial patch notes it will be the skill 4 of off hand sword… it is a counterattack, not spammable (tell me how many mesmer with off hand sword did you met in pvp).

same goes for thief, i don’t know the class, but i read poison on 1 attack has been replaced with torment.

all of this and mesmer attack apparently will be nerfed thanks to people crying over it for ever and ever.

keep in mind that at least for mesmers high condition means low dps already, so no, i don’t think mesmer will be over powered, they will be the same with major nerf on the gs. i wish they gave us back the real deal of mesmers… confusion

Its about time we had some buffs…

Half the skills/traits across the classes are totally useless and never used…

Also, there is a lack of build diversity, you can only use perhaps 1 or 2 builds per class, if you use anything else, you are purposely underpowering yourself…

I welcome buffs, makes a lovely change from the endless nerfs…

Nerfs make me not want to play that character…

Buffs make me want to play about with different builds, experiment with skills/traits, you know play more and generally have fun?

we are talking like torment will deal 1k damage per second 100k damage if moving…
and like it lasts for ever…
it will be like 1s for 10 damage you’ll see

Where did you see the changes about rangers?

What’s the point of this thread when you don’t know all the facts of the release notes. Its like arguing which cake is better on their appearance but you haven’t tasted any of them.

I’d hold on for a while and wait for actual patch notes to start the discussion, because this is rather misleading and can cause some people get a wrong idea about something that is not even out yet.

Facts people, thats what we need to discuss this topic, otherwise is as good as witch hunt.

Yes, just kill the mesmer & thief class because “they’re just so hard! they kill me to fast! OMG I need skillz to face them?! NERF THEM”

jalmari.3906:

I think anet simply went insane if they’re going to just give thief and mesmer new condition, especially condition like that. With current mechanics you need to MOVE to avoid their attacks (which somewhat instakill you if you don’t) and now you’d just get damage for doing it. Way to go. Clever. Good work etc.

I just hope this also means thief and mesmer get a meganerf at same time. i.e. Mesmer GS loses 20% dmg and vuln from autoattack and thief loses stealth from dagger 5.

The point of this thread is that early feedback is given in hopes that unthought of side effects of the proposed changes could be addressed prior to them becoming live.

Of course we have to caveat this all with, those are leaked and unconfirmed changes . Without the hard numbers behind some of the skills, we can only speculate the extent of damage things like torment will do.

Keep in mind though, that the devs have closed other threads and directed us to discuss the upcoming changes here on this one consolidated thread so they could hear the feedback. Which is a sort of unsaid “the patch notes are true” indicator.

I am sure it will not be out of line by itself, but the idea of torment stacked with multiple other things going on becomes frighteningly overpowered in the minds of many. Especially with the proposed classes it will be given to.

In the end, there is not a lot of time to make drastic changes now. They could tweek the numbers, but the mechanics are set in stone until the next big changing sweep.

The trait changes are also pretty elaborate and we have to just hope for the best, with more balancing acts as time goes on.

So again, to answer your question on what is the point of this thread: It is because we care about the game we play and are invested in it’s future. You are correct though, we need to approach this with a grain of salt until it all comes to fruition.