Feedback/Questions: Town clothes, Costumes, & Combat

Feedback/Questions: Town clothes, Costumes, & Combat

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Posted by: Twyll Blackleaf.9641

Twyll Blackleaf.9641

Yes, we do have to give up some of our current closet space and clothing to fit the new wardrobe in. Again, apologies for that.

It is quite rude to barge into someone else’s closet unasked to destroy their clothes.

Precisely! Although it’s more like barging into the closet, attaching random bits of fabric they brought with them to some of your shirts to turn them into “outfits,” and grouping up your other clothes and supergluing them together; so you still have your clothes, but you can’t use them like you used to. And then getting confused, because you still have your clothes! Sure, now they’ve got extra bits stuck all over them and some of them are glued together, but you still have them, right? …Right…?

And before anyone pulls the “they made the clothes so they can take them away” excuse: If I buy clothes from a store and then employees of that store take them away from me a few months later, though I thought I’d be able to, y’know, keep them, that is not an okay thing. If they had said at checkout, “You’re not actually buying these clothes; you’re renting them for a few months, and we’re going to change them after that,” I might not be so mad, although I’d still be a bit ticked when their reasons for changing them turn out to be either secret or completely unreasonable.

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Posted by: DeWolfe.2174

DeWolfe.2174

Additionally, every time we added something to town-clothes, it didn’t really help someone building their light, medium, or heavy look.

See….. Right there!!!! You aren’t giving us MORE choice. You’re squeezing us into “A” look, not one of our choosing. This obsession with light, medium, or heavy is a problem. Who ever said I want my Warrior to LOOK heavy??? And, no matter what, we’re not using appearance for combat. We’re using the targeting icon and opponent skills.

GG…

[AwM] of Jade Quarry.

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Posted by: Natsu Dragneel.1625

Natsu Dragneel.1625

I just want to be able to use my reading glasses as a in-combat helm skin ^^

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Posted by: Sharkinu.8096

Sharkinu.8096

Can you at least make the GW2 Dragon Shirt a chest armor skin? I can ask for refund for all my tonics, but no one is going to refund me a serial key.

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Posted by: CHEN.3645

CHEN.3645

You know I was actually quite excited for this patch until I read this thread.

Anet, to sum this thread up.

You have successfully flamed and angered the entire RP community (and I’m not even one of them) by implementing a system that as much as it fixes many of the current issues (Mostly for us real PVE/WvW and SPVP players) it however destroys and devastate another section of the community who ACTIVELY spend REAL money on things you are TRYING to now sell to us the regular players. All because you poorly implemented its system. All the while giving us the same excuse as clipping when THERE is STILL an entire RACE fraught with clipping issues and nonsensical attire that you have yet to fix after a YEAR AND A HALF because you didn’t feel like redesigning a whole sets for said race.

I wonder how tengu will turn out when you finally get around to them?

In all honesty, omit the changes for the town clothes system, at least until you can bang out all the rest of the KEY issues with the armor sets in general. This sounds like a really bad case of cutting corners and getting ahead of yourselves. And I’m sure there are still a few things you can include in from the town clothes system but you might want to give that animal some new thought. I do however appreciate the effort made and I think we all would like to see nothing more but this undertaking through, especially if you wish to continue making money on this game.

Sincerely an incredibly concerned player.

(edited by CHEN.3645)

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Posted by: Ohoni.6057

Ohoni.6057

I’m still hoping that some of the Town clothes will become available for light armor (and sold again). I wanted to put those shorts and some of the tops on my Light Armor characters, too much of the existing armor is overly “fancy,” while the town clothes just ad simple elegance.

“If you spent as much time working on [some task] as
you spend complaining about it on the forums, you’d be
done by now.”

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Posted by: whatsername.4128

whatsername.4128

The town clothing items mentioned as no longer being in the gem store were removed from the gem store in mid December. The official reason given was “streamlining” the gem store and players then rushed to buy them on the assumption that this was their last chance to get limited time items.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/info/updates/Game-Update-Notes-December-10-2013

As you have said, it’s a bit of a stretch to believe they did not have the outlines of the feature patch known by December. If they did have this change planned by then, the best that can be said of the way they removed those items is that it was deceptive. If they knew they were being removed because their functionality was being radically altered, they should have said so rather than going with the excuse of “streamlining,” putting up countdown timers in the gem store next to each of the items, and specifically stating in the patch notes that “Players who previously purchased these items will still retain the ability to use them” which any reasonable person at the time would have read as a reassurance that no significant changes would be made to the items.

This is where I feel extremely mislead and wronged by these changes. I didn’t care that I couldn’t have any more town clothes. I do care that my usage of them is being changed in such a drastic way that it makes them literally worthless to me.

Tarnished Coast – [NeX] [SASS]
Avalise [Sylvari Thief]

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Posted by: Xyonon.3987

Xyonon.3987

We do understand and sincerely apologize that there are creative combinations of town clothes that will not exist anymore.

So … you really ignore us and do your stupid stuff straight away? Seriously? No “ok we love so we will leave it as it is right now until we found a better solution” ?? MY GOD REALLY !?

We hope the benefits to the outfit system and wardrobe in terms of future support and additions will be clear, and you can look forward to more new outfits coming very soon.

HAHAHAHAH FORGET IT! I won’t pay a single $ anymore until the main issue has been fixed!

So much hate right now >:(

PS: I WANT MY MONEY BACK!!! IN GEMS!!

Ziggs Ironeye – Engineer | Madame Le Blanc – Mesmer | Mentor (PvE) | EU
“Mentoring engineers / mesmers and showing you what you can do with your fantastic class!
Just pm me for my advice! Always eager to help!”

(edited by Xyonon.3987)

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Posted by: Carighan.6758

Carighan.6758

So basically the whole “we are taking your concerns and feedback into consideration” was a bunch of nonsense. Glad to see that hasn’t changed. Just the usual typical PR spin meaning “we are not changing anything regardless of what you have to say”.

Considering how open he sounds about it, consider that it might actually be a technical issue. It might not be fixable without a full engine re-write.

The strength of heart to face oneself has been made manifest. The persona Carighan has appeared.

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Posted by: Twyll Blackleaf.9641

Twyll Blackleaf.9641

So basically the whole “we are taking your concerns and feedback into consideration” was a bunch of nonsense. Glad to see that hasn’t changed. Just the usual typical PR spin meaning “we are not changing anything regardless of what you have to say”.

Considering how open he sounds about it, consider that it might actually be a technical issue. It might not be fixable without a full engine re-write.

Unfortunately, there really wasn’t much openness in that “answer,” just vague, hollow reassurances and arguments that occasionally conflict with themselves. If it is truly a technical issue, then being “open” about it would mean telling us what the issue is. I’m especially interested to know what could possibly prevent mixing town clothes that are designed to be mixed with other town clothes with the town clothes they’re meant to be mixed with!

I was perfectly willing to give ANet the benefit of the doubt when I thought the answer they’d promised would be an actual answer. They’ve used their free try, though, and I doubt many people would be willing to give them the benefit of the doubt now.

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Posted by: Carighan.6758

Carighan.6758

If it is truly a technical issue, then being “open” about it would mean telling us what the issue is. I’m especially interested to know what could possibly prevent mixing town clothes that are designed to be mixed with other town clothes with the town clothes they’re meant to be mixed with!

Though my understanding of clothing in 3D engines is limited (never done work on animated stuff), Bonefield seems to have guessed correctly here: https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/Feedback-Questions-Town-clothes-Costumes-Combat/page/14#post3817507

The strength of heart to face oneself has been made manifest. The persona Carighan has appeared.

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Posted by: Asazi.7561

Asazi.7561

So basically the whole “we are taking your concerns and feedback into consideration” was a bunch of nonsense. Glad to see that hasn’t changed. Just the usual typical PR spin meaning “we are not changing anything regardless of what you have to say”.

Considering how open he sounds about it, consider that it might actually be a technical issue. It might not be fixable without a full engine re-write.

I still don’t understand why they couldn’t edit the models and make entirely new skins of each townclothing item. Make them as actual ‘armor’ instead, edit what needs to be edited. Or just, you know, leave the system people paid real money to use alone.

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Posted by: Twyll Blackleaf.9641

Twyll Blackleaf.9641

If it is truly a technical issue, then being “open” about it would mean telling us what the issue is. I’m especially interested to know what could possibly prevent mixing town clothes that are designed to be mixed with other town clothes with the town clothes they’re meant to be mixed with!

Though my understanding of clothing in 3D engines is limited (never done work on animated stuff), Bonefield seems to have guessed correctly here: https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/Feedback-Questions-Town-clothes-Costumes-Combat/page/14#post3817507

That still seems to be related to mixing armors of different types, though, which it’s already been established the new Outfits system won’t do. The question here is why it’s not possible to mix town clothes with other town clothes under this system: what could possibly make it impossible to create a custom Outfit out of just town clothes. It’s possible to wear combinations of town clothes and use different toys to Costume Brawl, which have a variety of animations; do combat animations really distort characters’ bodies so incredibly much that meshes that work just fine with each other for walking, running, jumping, dodging, punching, falling over, flailing, flying on broomsticks, and emoting every possible emote somehow don’t work with each other for combat? I can’t think of a single combat animation that is more complicated than what you can do in Costume Brawl, and town clothes can already do that. The excuse regarding town clothes that take up more than one slot doesn’t make any sense either, because if they can already cover more than one slot, then why do you have to force them to be all one piece so you can have clothes that cover more than one slot!?

And what happens if there is a problem? A bit of clipping? A bit of a hole in your character’s midriff for a brief moment while she executes a particularly twisty move that isn’t covered by what’s already possible in Costume Brawl? There are plenty of examples being given of clipping and even empty holes in skins that already happen with existing armor.

The Voice of ANet Speaking Through Curtis has talked about issues that are “not just clipping” but very conveniently neglected to mention what they are. That smacks of an excuse. While we were in the “speculation” phase of this discussion, “technical limitations” was a valid theory because we couldn’t know specifically what they were; but even if they really exist, ANet knows exactly what they are but refuses to explain and thus prove that they do exist, which throws doubt over the whole darned thing.

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Posted by: Mia Lunarfang.5826

Mia Lunarfang.5826

I’ve never played with town clothes before, never had the need or desire, and I’ve always prefered majestic armor anyways, so I never realized how important a feature it is to the player base until coming across this forum… bad move Anet.

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Posted by: Devildoc.6721

Devildoc.6721

We do understand and sincerely apologize that there are creative combinations of town clothes that will not exist anymore. Many have asked why remove town clothes as a concept. It boils down to we believe better armor skinning and the outfit system is something we can add more options to more often and will produce a better supported RP game for everyone with more variety in the future. In short, a healthier game.

To expand more on what I mean by better support, It helps if you think of town clothes as a 4th weight class of armor. Clothing was meant to offer visual options that break the class roles, however we were never completely happy with the way it was isolated from the rest of the game and still felt largely the same. Many pieces could have easily been mistaken for light or medium armor. In many ways it was more akin to building an alt character because town-clothes and armor were so separated. Additionally, every time we added something to town-clothes, it didn’t really help someone building their light, medium, or heavy look. And there was no way to add combat gear fairly without creating 3 versions on the back end (light, medium, and heavy). As a customization platform and sustainable expansion design it left a lot to be desired.

When we started looking at bringing more of the clothing back into armor with mix and match styles there are some fundamental incompatible things between weight classes. (part of how we set up every armor to allow many dye channels and styles per piece).. There really is no way at this point over six years since we started development to make absolutely everything work together. So we needed something new to continue to grow in the future.

Outfits give us a way to create highly stylized looks that aren’t constrained to armor slots or weight class. In addition to armor skins that are easier and cheaper to collect across characters and the account dye system we do believe the options across a players whole account are much more attractive now. You’ll see more outfits coming out this summer and additions to the game more often usable by your characters. We try not to allow too much ‘hoarder’ design where we just keep stacking more and more options on leaving lots of unsupported things hanging around. Yes, we do have to give up some of our current closet space and clothing to fit the new wardrobe in. Again, apologies for that.

As always we ask you to try out the new system of customization and see what’s available to you. I think many people will be surprised by how many pieces have become armor compatible. We hope the benefits to the outfit system and wardrobe in terms of future support and additions will be clear, and you can look forward to more new outfits coming very soon.

Be prepared to shell out refunds for the outfits you’ve ruined.

Here’s a major, major point that you’re completely throwing away.

People in the RP community especially WANT a separate outfit to wear in town when they’re not in battle.

Making these items useable in combat completely defeats their point.

Zapp – 80 Asura Afromancer

(edited by Devildoc.6721)

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Posted by: johnsonade.9547

johnsonade.9547

I think the best thing you could do as a company, instead of apologizing and chalking up losses in the RP community and other players upset about the wardrobe changes, is reintroduce some items that were slated to become potions as new temporary armor. Improve upon those items to have them fit within the scope of what needs to be done for light, medium, and heavy armors.

Also there should be a window of time where those actually concerned about the old town clothes can redeem a new version for free. It could be via the same system you have for infinite gathering tools that were soulbound and, after you visited a black lion vendor, account bound. Or it could be something that you mail to people that already had these items. Or you could just send upset gamers gems to purchase the newer versions you might release.

Honestly that’s the best solution I can come up with. And you can release newer versions of those old items at intervals more convenient for your development staff so you don’t sink all your resources into old news. If you haven’t already thought of such a plan, hopefully this idea could help you. All the other changes that ArenaNet is working on sound so promising. Thanks for the Living Story, all the great improvements and fixes, and such an amazing game. Good luck!

(edited by johnsonade.9547)

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Posted by: ProsaicPudding.6437

ProsaicPudding.6437

I just… I appreciate the explanation and the rationale to an extent. But I hope you realize two things. 1) I have (and I think a lot of people who wanted to design their own outfits have) no interest in wearing a premade costume. They’re fine to have, but not something I am interested in. 2) Without using outfits, people in my situation no longer get a second set of gear to switch to for free. It has taken away an option we had before. If you have to take away town clothes, and you have to introduce single piece costumes (in stead of multi piece costumes), at least let us drag away the shattered remains of the system we enjoyed by giving us a second wardrobe slot to switch to. So we can pretend to have a second set of nice clothes to wear when we want.

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Posted by: Soulmyr.8094

Soulmyr.8094

So the point is the concept of town clothes is gone. Those existing town clothes that can mix with armor are now armor skins (mostly hats), the clothes released as costumes are now fixed as such (no mixing) and the clothes that are not costumes or don’t mesh with any of the existing armor weight models are now tonics.
Costumes are what is replacing the whole town clothes idea.

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Posted by: runeblade.7514

runeblade.7514

If ANet can’t do a thing about converting town clothes as armor. Then don’t remove town clothes panel.

I do not want tonics. I want to dress up.

5x Warrior, 5x Ranger, 4x Elementalist, 4x Engineer,
4x Necromancer, 3x Mesmer, 4x Guardian, 4x Thief, 4 Revenant

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Posted by: Fire.5026

Fire.5026


I love to use my Wintersday town clothes on my human male, but I really hate how the hat looks on him. I much prefer the coolio aviator sunglasses that he is currently wearing.
I would be very disappointed if he always had to wear that hat. x_x

I do like the Mad King’s outfit on my Norn, but I would also like to show his face while wearing it. I would also be very disappointed if he had to wear the pumpkin head all the time. :/

A little added note here, Outfits will still respect the ‘hide helm’ toggle so you can absolutely wear Wintersday or Mad King outfit without the hat or pumpkin.

So i will NOT be able to wear my Wintersday Dress AND my Quaggan Hat/Sunglasses? I really like the wardrobe system but now it feels a little bit like “you can combine any skin except the ones you like”. I bought the hat just to show it with the dress and now i cant? I would really like to see the ‘hide helm’ toggle to show the original helm of the armor so you can show the hat and when you ‘hide helm’ you original armor and the outfit’s you see the blank head.

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Posted by: Sir Lysander.9842

Sir Lysander.9842

ChemicLord -

It really depends on WHEN they learned of the decision themselves. Just because you release features at the same time doesn’t mean you start working on them at the same time. I know someone said something about one of the designers working on them for 8 months, which depending on the development cycle at Arena.net, would have likely put that call from NCSoft around September or so… which would have been right after a lot of that seasonal stuff for Halloween was already committed to code.

(That’s just a wild guess as I don’t know what Arena.net’s development cycle usually runs, I’m just kinda averaging out my own experience of how development goes.)

As for Wintersday… that’s harder for me to explain other than maybe they did all that development in one lump package, but that is admittedly a stretch.

I understand – and, yes, even though I’m not privy to any of that information, either, a September initiation-point sounds right, developmentally, making the Halloween stuff “already done and (mostly) committed” (because, just because it’s done, doesn’t automatically mean it’s going to be released). The Wintersday outfits (and fire-sale of previous town clothes before removal) is much harder to justify, though if they came out and said they learned of the town clothes changes in late December, that might work.

On the other hand, Curtis did say

… however we were never completely happy with the way it was isolated from the rest of the game and still felt largely the same.

and

There really is no way at this point over six years since we started development to make absolutely everything work together.

Which leads me to believe (but, of course, is quite inconclusive either way) that radical changes or elimination of the town clothes system was either a frequent topic of discussion or “widely known”

In the end, while I may not like this decision, it’s one downcheck on a change package that otherwise has been rather positive.

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Posted by: Fire.5026

Fire.5026

Please! Dont remove what we love.

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Posted by: Fire.5026

Fire.5026

Or the other way … will i be able to only show the bloody prince’s face while wearing my normal armor? So will there be like a ‘hide body’ toggle in the outfit too?

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Posted by: Kolzi.5928

Kolzi.5928

As always we ask you to try out the new system of customization and see what’s available to you. I think many people will be surprised by how many pieces have become armor compatible. We hope the benefits to the outfit system and wardrobe in terms of future support and additions will be clear, and you can look forward to more new outfits coming very soon.

I don’t suppose you could list off which pieces can be used as armour?

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Posted by: EoNenmacil.2361

EoNenmacil.2361

I am Truly Saddens me to see this leave. There is no reason for this. I love my Town clothes as single items. I Would like a refund on all my Clothes that I have Payed Real money for. Why would you take away something so great is beyond me.

2nd Officer of Ethereal Guardians ~Syinne Rio~

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Posted by: Xyonon.3987

Xyonon.3987

To be honest I’d rather see NO wardrobe at all than beeing robbed by ANet for the city clothes diversity.

ö.ö

Ziggs Ironeye – Engineer | Madame Le Blanc – Mesmer | Mentor (PvE) | EU
“Mentoring engineers / mesmers and showing you what you can do with your fantastic class!
Just pm me for my advice! Always eager to help!”

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Posted by: Kraggy.4169

Kraggy.4169

We do understand and sincerely apologize that there are creative combinations of town clothes that will not exist anymore. Many have asked why remove town clothes as a concept. It boils down to we believe better armor skinning and the outfit system is something we can add more options to more often and will produce a better supported RP game for everyone with more variety in the future. In short, a healthier game.

Please, re-read that again, or get someone else to do so and explain to you the complete fallacy in what you wrote.

No, seriously RE-READ what you wrote until you understand.

Hint: a system based on an OUTFIT which is a single set of indivisible items cannot give MORE OPTIONS than a system where EACH COMPONENT is separate and can freely be mixed with others.

(edited by Kraggy.4169)

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Posted by: Scry.3829

Scry.3829

The chosen system feels a little odd and clunky for me personally, the whole things being pegged far too much as a Roleplayers issue, whilst i have dabbled I don’t class myself as a RPer and bought the gear in particular Halloween sets as i’m a huge fan of halloween, I too like to mix and match items, thereby i am hugely disappointed, i have a character who has a top hat and the Mad Kings Outfit for example… looks cool, not silly and adds a bit of flair for that character.

If the hardline ‘this is how it is… no changes’ is being taken I think it’s only appropriate for a list of the town clothes and how they will be translated should be given so people can get refunds or whatever now…. because people are clearly unhappy about this.

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Posted by: Max Lexandre.6279

Max Lexandre.6279

Meh, this thread proves that our feedback does nothing, ANet will go with their idea we like it or not.

I’m The Best in Everything.
Asura thing.

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Posted by: sMihaly.1492

sMihaly.1492

“Guild Wars 2 Fan Costume” is not supported anymore?

Attachments:

(edited by sMihaly.1492)

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Posted by: Zaoda.1653

Zaoda.1653

All I can say is I’m glad I never got into town clothing because I would have been even more devastated by the future update to it.

What I think should have happened is to have just made them separate skins – that way you can wear them whenever and however you like. #problemsolved

Forever a supporter of more male skimpy armor

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Posted by: Fozzik.1742

Fozzik.1742

There’s already a ton of clipping issues and incompatibility between armor sets in the game. Between pieces of armor, between hair and collars, between weapons and armor, weapons and backpacks, etc. etc.

How can that be an excuse for not allowing town clothes to be individual slot skins in our wardrobe? If there’s an incompatibility, players will work around it just like they already do with all of the already existing incompatibilities. They will try a combination, say “ooh, that clips and doesn’t work”, and will try something else. Nothing is lost by giving the freedom of putting the town clothes in the locker as individual armor skins.

In reality, this seems like an excuse to try and sell more stuff in the gem store. Sorry, we can’t give you the functionality you want with the things you already bought…buy these NEW things that will be so much better! Forced obsolescence is a crappy business tactic, and entirely unnecessary.

That being said, a few of the dev’s ambiguous statements could potentially mean that many of the town clothes pieces WILL be able to be applied to individual armor slots. If that’s the case, it would be nice if they were more clear on the matter. People will probably just need to wait and see whether this is actually a problem or not.

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Posted by: kurosov.2943

kurosov.2943

This is all I want from the system.

We could wear different helms with costumes in the gw1 system but from the looks of the info released so far not in gw2. With the horrible changes made to flamekissed on my asura this is the only decent look left. Being able to wear it alongside those glasses would make her complete.

I need it.

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Posted by: Felix.9170

Felix.9170

You sold us something dynamic colorful and fun, got us in invest time creativity and money in it and now you are ripping it away and replacing it with something static and restrictive. Supposedly because YOU like it better. Then, with the same breath try to sell us more of the new downgraded product. Why on earth would we ever buy more costumes? Or any thing else for that matter? We would be foolish to invest more money on something that could be changed or destroyed ant any time at the whim of the seller. Thats the message you are sending, expect to feel it in the bank book.
I am furious over the loss of content I loved and my trust in you products is shattered. I’m not sure it’s worth spending more time on this game at all.

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Posted by: Traced.3495

Traced.3495

I… never cared about my light, medium or heavy look though!

Well, I did care a bit. Somewhat. Or a lot. Well not heavy.

More accurately, I did not need everything to be about combat. Town clothes system was just amazing to play with.
I loved my toy collection the most in this game and I counted town clothes with those.
My remaining toys remain, I still love my characters very much… and with this update the one plus is dyes even if that is very much shadowed with all this stuff. I’m setting this game to a sort of “maintenance mode” after dealing with some loose ends.

let the sky fall

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Posted by: Daerian.6523

Daerian.6523

Would it be possible to add option to mix/match costumes with headgears from other costumes and armor skins?
I perfectly understand problems with mixing normal armor skins and costumes, but headgears shouldn’t really be that problematic, and after reading entire thread that would help a really big amount of people.

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Posted by: Pixelpumpkin.4608

Pixelpumpkin.4608

It is not just “some combinations” that are no longer possible; it is almost all of them, even if I didn’t count the dye jobs. And honestly, the entire concept of costumes is not for me.

I am not looking for a way to turn a dungeon run into a costume party and fight along a few more chefs and pirates, all of who look the same (no custom dyes) and none of who has any hair on their heads (seriously!!). This, for me, is akin to buying a cheap. low-quality Super Mario costume at Walmart and then finding you’re one of five identical Super Marios at the Halloween party.

This is not the way the GW2 community, has, so far, used town clothes. We have used them to take the parts and creatively turned them into something new, awesome, and individual. We came up with our own combinations to create a multitude of unique costumes. Something that expressed our characters’ unique personalities, far beyond “chef or pirate or witch”.

To suggest that costumes would ever make up for the loss of that shows, I think, that the devs were ignorant towards the way the town clothes were used so far.

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Posted by: Fire.5026

Fire.5026

î pls like the post above î

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Posted by: Xyonon.3987

Xyonon.3987

To suggest that costumes would ever make up for the loss of that shows, I think, that the devs were ignorant towards the way the town clothes were used so far.

beautiful to read

Ziggs Ironeye – Engineer | Madame Le Blanc – Mesmer | Mentor (PvE) | EU
“Mentoring engineers / mesmers and showing you what you can do with your fantastic class!
Just pm me for my advice! Always eager to help!”

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Posted by: NoxInfernus.2361

NoxInfernus.2361

What really chafes my backside in this whole thing is that this new system has obviously has been worked on for some time (the dev’s actually said so).
Despite the changes to the town clothes to costume system being developed and the limitations that arose from it, Anet still happily went ahead and provided Town clothes in the store that they knew were going to have a radical departure from the product that was originally marketed and sold.
They even went so far as to provide a sale for some of these items during the month of March, knowing that in a week or two they would announce that the item up for sale would be changed (i.e. pirate outfit)

Finally, they have the gall to say they will not refund customers gems/money for these town clothes turned outfits (although in fairness, they will for items turned tonics – As they should).

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Posted by: Kojast.6304

Kojast.6304

After having had a night to sleep on it, here’s my attempt at constructive feedback.

Can the system be modified to be this?:

  • Town clothing system and tab as it exists today stays the same
  • Outfit implementation as planned in the new patch stays the same
  • Headpiece and other convertible armor conversions are added to the wardrobe as planned in the new patch but also retained as town clothing pieces. Toys are converted to inventory items as planned in the new patch.
  • Make an announcement that no future updates will be made to the town clothing system. Add a disclaimer to the tab if you like so newcomers get an explanation for why it is there.

In other words, move forward with all the proposed changes (in no way do I want to affect people who are happy with the change) but also maintain backward compatibility for town clothing exactly the way it works now.

Is it technically possible to restore the old system as an unsupported grandfathered feature while still moving forward with the new system?

Again, I understand it’s not a pretty solution, but it seems a solution that would make everyone happy. Those who love the new combat functionality get it, those who love the old town clothing keep it. The only downside I can think of is that there’s a vestigial unsupported feature left in the game, but should design philosophy outweigh real world customer concerns?

(edited by Kojast.6304)

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Posted by: Kirimitsu.2049

Kirimitsu.2049

Dear Devs,

Every reason as to how this decision wills grief a unexpectedly sizable group of player has been mentioned in full – from a break in trust, to the sentimental value of mixing clothes and the importance of keeping a ‘non-armor class’ category of attire. There is really little I can add which is new, nor do I have any solutions that have not yet been mentioned by other players here. The only thing that remains for me is try and illustrate how this affects me personally. How egotistical!

As a Sylvari guardian on Piken Square, I spend about 28 to 36 hours a week in active roleplay, most of which revolves either in or around Divinity’s Reach. When she visits a tavern with her guidmates, she wears a mix of sets and loose town clothes. When she cooks for her friends, runs errands, flirts with an Asura around a campfire, or basically does ANYTHING that doesn’t require a heavy set of uncomfortable armor, she wears this nice mix of town clothing which I swap around every so often. Because this makes the game more immersive, and gives personality to her look.

With the taken path set in stone, the only other power I can use to show how deeply I oppose the dismantling of this core RP-feature seems to be by holding on to my wallet and asking for a limited amount of refunds. Not cool Devs, not cool at all. Nobody wins by that, nor does it satisfy me in the slightest.

I trust you are doing your best within the limitations of your available resources or new (?) direction set by NCSoft – I just ask for a fair resolution and sincere answer to the paying customers who feel wronged by this update.

(edited by Kirimitsu.2049)

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Posted by: Shadowcat.6752

Shadowcat.6752

Hear hear to that last post!
C’mon ANet. If you care like it is said you do, don’t go through with this change. The rest of the update is good. Just not this bit. Even if you can’t change it in just a few weeks, we can wait until you can.

I do not want an outfit I can’t dye or mix with other pieces of civvie dress.
I do not want a tonic that takes up valuable bag space.
I don’t care about outfits or town clothes being used in combat.

Dragonbanes Ho!

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Posted by: cakesphere.5910

cakesphere.5910

If your apology is truly that sincere you ought to offer us refunds not just for the items that will be turned into tonics, but all items that will no longer be what they were, because to many of us they have lost their purpose and would not have purchased if we had we known. You are destroying options that we have been happy with for a very long time. You are removing variety, not adding to it.

I believe a healthier game would be one where the developers actually listens to their playerbase and ask for their input before removing content. Especially when it is content that many have spent a lot of flesh world money on.

Exactly this.
I don’t understand why anet would push this change forward like it is and then have the nerve not to reimburse people whose town clothes aren’t becoming tonics yet still losing the original function that they had

Like how hard is it to be decent to your customers? How hard is it not to kitten over the people who like the game enough to not just buy utility things like bag slots, but town clothes

These are ONLY the people who are throwing money at you -rolls eyes-

Every part of their decision baffles me in a different way.

GS1’ing world bosses since 2013
#mesmerlyfe

(edited by cakesphere.5910)

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Posted by: Faowri.4159

Faowri.4159

I understand the compromise being made here and I’m not angry about the loss of the exact town clothes implementation that we have, primarily because it’s so restrictive as is that I rarely use it except during holiday events. That limitation meant I bought a lot fewer town clothes than I could have.

That said, I totally respect people’s concerns about the loss of previously existing combinations, and I still feel like we’re at a bit of an unfinished halfway point with resolving the point of town clothes and the way they interact with armour.

I almost feel like we should just ditch the outfit/town clothes system and turn everything into armour. It doesn’t have to be done for April 15th (again, I appreciate the difficulty of converting some of the full outfits), but maybe it could become a communicated end goal for the transformation of the system over the longterm, so that people can adjust their expectations/spending accordingly.

Anything that you can currently equip separately, per piece, should ideally become a piece of armour. I guess that’s what I’d like to see, since with skin transformations readily available, there isn’t really a conceptual point to having another cosmetic layer for ‘outfits’.

Overall I’m really looking forward to these changes, but that’s primarily because the town clothes issue doesn’t affect me enough to outweigh the wardrobe benefits.

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Posted by: Shifu.4321

Shifu.4321

I’m guessing they looked at the numbers, saw that the amount of people who would buy outfits if they were usable in combat outnumbered those who would be affected by the change, and decided that they were willing to risk angering those who regularly used town clothes. That’s probably what happened.

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Posted by: Light.7493

Light.7493

I love everything that’s being introduced – account bound dyes, the wardrobe system for armour skins – but Curtis, honey…

Tonics for certain Town Clothes pieces? It’s laughable. I can’t even imagine how such a suggestion could be put forth as anything other than a joke, and a poor one at that.

Like many others in this thread, I appreciate your responses and would appreciate it even more if you would explain why there is a problem with mixing town clothes with other town clothes, since that system works already.

I did like my costumes in GW, and you could create some lovely combinations with the different festival headgear, however they were severely limiting and often you would see a dozen other characters that had the exact same look, even down to the dyes. In GW2, despite the loss of many emotes and the ability to dye weapons, among other downgrades from the original, you gave us a greater variety of costuming options with town clothes, and I spent a fair bit of real money on them. The pieces I didn’t like – those hideous hats that make everyone bald, for instance – I actually destroyed, to make room in my bank for more of the pieces I did like.

And now you wish to take away this feature that so many of us have enjoyed so thoroughly, for so many months, without even the courtesy of a real explanation.

I love ANet, Curtis, but I will be among those queueing up for a fat refund when this goes live, and I will not be purchasing any of your future “outfits.”

I think he mentioned that. Town Clothes are compatible with other town clothes …
but thats just like making another armor class which is incompatible with everything else. They want to create a single ‘outfit’ without design limitations.
So… while light chest piece may be incompatible with heavy leg pieces, a full costume may be equipped which has the features of a light armor, or heavy armor, or a new arbitrary new armor since they are now a set and mix and match isn’t an issue. This will allow them to create more variety of outfit sets that bend the limitations which have to be put there to allow mix and match. Looking forward to the new stuff!

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Posted by: chemiclord.3978

chemiclord.3978

Since we’re playing on that “highly logical” extreme.

McDonalds would probably kick you out of the store long before two years to eat the burger you paid for. Just sayin’…

This feature film has been modified in proportion and duration to fit on your TV.

But it’s why I really dislike the “what if this was a restaurant?” analogy.

It’s beyond apples and oranges. It’s apples and streetcars. What is acceptable business for consumable goods is FAR different than reusable products. Of course your analogy sounds silly… because there’s absolutely no logical reason for the policies of either to overlap. The analogy is lost not because the logic of either side is unsound… but because the logic of either is completely and inherently incompatible to begin with. You CAN’T run a restaurant like a software company in any tangible way.

A much more accurate analogy, personally, would be equivalent to the shift from analog to digital TV. The change was GOING to happen, no matter how much previous adapters liked it or not. They even complained about buying a new analog set if companies KNEW it was going to change soon.

But that was going to happen no matter what. There was always going to be an unfortunate overlap somewhere, no matter WHEN they pulled the trigger. And at the end of the day, the best TV providers could do was offer a compromise while the transition was in place.

Because the transition was going to happen, and for the bulk of the customers base, it HAD to, and it wasn’t feasible to keep both methods running forever. At some point, analog signals HAD to go down permanently.

I see this as very similar. Arena.net is completely revamping how “town clothes” work… and it just isn’t realistic for them to have two completely different systems. It’s unfortunate that it’s upsetting people, but it’s unavoidable. I’m sorry, but you’re going to have to deal with it… or go somewhere else if you can’t.

At least in the case of Guild Wars 2, there are plenty of other games that might give you what you’re looking for.

(edited by chemiclord.3978)

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Posted by: Burnham.2613

Burnham.2613

It really isn’t all that difficult to do what they should do to make people happy, just time consuming and the tonics are a terrible shortcut and show an unwillingness to do what is right for your community. If the problem with Town Clothes is essentially that they are akin to a 4th set of armor or are basically weighted like light armor, then the solution is to actually take the time to modify them into the three different armor weights and make three separate models for the one piece. Every single person who bought the item should get three versions of the item added to their wardrobe (a light armor, medium armor, and heavy armor piece) Due to the weight changes they will look a little different but at the end of the day they will be properly weighted and can be used like any other armor piece.

This is really the route I think A.Net needs to take, and I’m sorry but the tonic route seems like a really lazy short cut to me. I just can’t get behind that decision at all.

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Posted by: chemiclord.3978

chemiclord.3978

I’m guessing they looked at the numbers, saw that the amount of people who would buy outfits if they were usable in combat outnumbered those who would be affected by the change, and decided that they were willing to risk angering those who regularly used town clothes. That’s probably what happened.

Oh, I’m reasonably certain that’s EXACTLY it.

With the new system, the only thing they have to worry about is each outfit being compatible with itself. They don’t have to make each mesh be somewhat compatible with every other piece of different outfits (which is destined to fail at some level).

It’s cheaper in terms of development, which is most likely the primary reason for the change. I honestly do not believe town clothes were the hot seller that the people in this thread want to believe it was. If town clothes were making Arena.net money… it wasn’t much.