Guild Wars 2

I was getting ready to re-download this today and start playing again, but after reading all these post about the new trait system, it looks like a no-go for me. I’m pretty bummed out about this considering I haven’t played in a LONG time and was really looking forward to getting back into this. I had close to a level 50 Engineer, but now that I’d have to respec him and lose all those hard earned traits, I’ll just stay away.

You’d think with all these fellow gamers talking about this issue, there would at least be a response from someone at the company or something. I’ll keep checking back in hopes it’ll return to it’s former glory. fingers crossed Later guys!

Well, if you have an existing character, all traits will be unlocked for you, no worries. It only counts for characters created after April.

maybe if we all posted this somewhere more public, like G4 or IGN or something, maybe Anet would comment ?

Peer pressure and PA resources can be of use both ways !

Illysharia.7286:

I am utterly perplexed at how this entire Trait re-vamp was managed. 2 months without an attempt at communication tells me quite clearly that the expiration date for any discussion or change has passed.

I think I can explain it.

People have complained that GW2 has no “end game”. So, they changed traits so that you get most of the points for them in the late and end game, and that’s when you can start to really unlock the traits as well.

That’s right, they took the old trait system and tried to turn it into late/end game content. That’s why so many of even the first tier traits are linked to things at a much higher level. For new players, getting the gold and skill points to unlock them quickly will slow them down in other areas of the game, making them play other “content” for longer.

Illysharia.7286:

I am utterly perplexed at how this entire Trait re-vamp was managed. 2 months without an attempt at communication tells me quite clearly that the expiration date for any discussion or change has passed.

This was probably written in stone from the powers to be. How can you communicate on something that can’t be changed. All we can hope for is that this POOR decision quickly negatively effects income. When this happens A-net, don’t sit around a table wondering why, just read this thread and it will become clear. Then you need to have a few words with those responsible for this mess.

I was thinking about starting a new character.

So if I create a totally new one, I wont have access to traits? But if I have an existing one (say, my level 31 theif), I will still have the normal trait selection?

From what I understood (correct me if I am wrong) I thought that any character under level 80 has to do the trait hunts.

Why did they put some traits in zones that are 10+ levels higher than you from the point you have access to them? I don’t get how that even happens in game development when considering players that are totally new to the game…

petespri.6548:

I was thinking about starting a new character.

So if I create a totally new one, I wont have access to traits? But if I have an existing one (say, my level 31 theif), I will still have the normal trait selection?

From what I understood (correct me if I am wrong) I thought that any character under level 80 has to do the trait hunts.

Why did they put some traits in zones that are 10+ levels higher than you from the point you have access to them? I don’t get how that even happens in game development when considering players that are totally new to the game…

If that level 31 thief was created before the trait changes, he will already have all traits unlocked (save for the 13th one of each line). Your new character however will have to unlock ALL the traits. :/

Well, my altaholism is cured. Now that I just play my 80’s, I am accumulating hordes of gold that I don’t need to spend. I definitely don’t need to buy any jewels.

So how does this help them make a profit exactly?

Bellizare.5816:

Well, my altaholism is cured. Now that I just play my 80’s, I am accumulating hordes of gold that I don’t need to spend. I definitely don’t need to buy any jewels.

So how does this help them make a profit exactly?

This. Though less with making gold and more doing PvP and world completion. I wanted to buy a new character slot to make a guardian, but every time I think about doing it I get put off by the trait system.

CrashTestAuto.9108:

Bellizare.5816:

Well, my altaholism is cured. Now that I just play my 80’s, I am accumulating hordes of gold that I don’t need to spend. I definitely don’t need to buy any jewels.

So how does this help them make a profit exactly?

This. Though less with making gold and more doing PvP and world completion. I wanted to buy a new character slot to make a guardian, but every time I think about doing it I get put off by the trait system.

Heh, the gold comes from salvaging etc all the stuff I don’t really need.

BTW, that new map is a great place for all sorts of drops. Also I broke down and traded some gold for gems to buy the ninja outfit (Looks great on my Asura). Barely dented my hoard though.

I too wanted a few more characters but have decided against it for now. In fact I was going to try to get one more slot for a character to get all the beginning skins for the wardrobe and I am going to wait for that as well. I don’t want to seem as though I am supporting this decision in the least.
I know I am only one customer and it would only be one extra character slot for creating/deleting for the skins but if enough people had that attitude the numbers wouldn’t show much of a loss.
The idea behind hunting skills was a good one but skills != traits. I don’t mind the new traits being added having to be unlocked, but this, well plenty of people have said it much better than I could throughout almost 30 pages.

If they made it so you had all the Adept traits unlocked by 36, the Master by 66 and the Grand Master by 80 then it wouldn’t be a problem. The problem is having adept traits being unlocked in 55-65 zone.

Galphar.3901:

If they made it so you had all the Adept traits unlocked by 36, the Master by 66 and the Grand Master by 80 then it wouldn’t be a problem. The problem is having adept traits being unlocked in 55-65 zone.

That would be much better.

Maybe this is just one step before they remove levels from the game…. I’d call that a great move. We don’t even need them anyway!

Bellizare.5816:

Well, my altaholism is cured. Now that I just play my 80’s, I am accumulating hordes of gold that I don’t need to spend. I definitely don’t need to buy any jewels.

So how does this help them make a profit exactly?

Another former Altaholic myself.
I used to enjoy character creation, starting new toons and playing through the zones. Now its just… work.

I really dislike the new trait system. It feels like it goes against the “play how you want to” philosophy that Anet said gw2 has. Now if I want to level through WvW or PvP I have to unlock traits with gold. How lame.

Galphar.3901:

If they made it so you had all the Adept traits unlocked by 36, the Master by 66 and the Grand Master by 80 then it wouldn’t be a problem. The problem is having adept traits being unlocked in 55-65 zone.

This would probably work as long as you didn’t have to do this hunting insanity in undoable places. Having everything unlocked before 80 gave you time to figure things out before getting to the fun stuff!

Well I posted earlier how much I hated this system and just wanted to post how it did actually hurt anet financially.

I had purchased a character slot and total make-over kits spending 30 dollars to level 2 more mesmers so I could change my race and to have something to do in the game. I had planned on doing map completion eventually and unlocking story modes, honestly most of the stuff that the trait unlock system required anyway. I used a birthday gift and leveled up cooking and one other craft, so that put me at about level 35. I leveled in the starter areas until about level 40 and was so frustrated from having no trait points available through game play I just stopped. It was absoulutly tedious and boring having only weapon skills and the few skills I had unlocked to kill things. I purchased ffixv ankitten ow playing that. The lS season 2 was most certainly not enough to pull me back into the game even on my main character. So now instead of playing this game and leveling a new character I turned to a new game and will most likely be putting my time and money there. I doubt this is a single person occurrence, but when you don’t have updates that give substantial content for 2 years and then completely break leveling new characters, players will look for something else to do with their time and money. I was a costumer that gave them money for gemstore items fairly frequently, and now that money will be going to another game. Anyway, this change won’t be altered by Anet imo and is here to stay. Those that are waiting and hoping I really hope they are not holding their breath.

The new trait system is just a nightmare for new players and players who wants to level alts. Basically Anet forced the players to explore the world, instead of encouraging or giving an incentive to do so. It is a grind and not fun. There is no sense of level progression with this system.

Trait-line 1, trait VII (Pyromancer’s Alacrity for elementalist) took me over a week and a half to get. Simply because we’ve been green for weeks on end and I’d have to venture up there to the ogre camp by myself to attempt it (usually inevitably to become a loot bag). I FINALLY got it after considerable begging to my guild and finding a few others to help team up with me to run all the way over there into red’s territory to get it unlocked.

This, is not even fun in the slightest… This particular trait, along with the Hylek camp trait (trait-line 2, trait VII) can potentially take forever to get. All things depending on availability via what color you happen to be that week in WvW or the availability of dependable help (in my case whining and crying in guild chat for ages cause everyone knew it was likely suicide to go up there).

I hate the fact that most of these traits are for your own personal character, yet they are group events, and you rely on other people to help you complete them. Even harder when there are no other players around to help you do said events.

Tuathal.7208:

I hate the fact that most of these traits are for your own personal character, yet they are group events, and you rely on other people to help you complete them. Even harder when there are no other players around to help you do said events.

Exactly my previous point. This sucks. =(

The ones like Karka Queen, sure. Those are done on a pretty regular basis, but some of these are pretty obscure.

While I love the game and have been playing since beta, the change to the trait system is horrible. The one alt I have left that was created after the trait change is incredibly tedious to level. How can you expect players to complete events in far away regions for an adept trait? That’s ridiculous. New players won’t even know how they can get to these zones.

This is a change that no one asked for. It’s not needed, doesn’t make the game better and only widens the gap between old and new players. I really hope you will revert this.

Everyone’s said it better than me before. My guild is full of a bunch of longtime friends, and we’ve returned to the April update, but all the good stuff is soured by the trait unlock system. I’m the only one currently running a fresh alt and it is excruciating, others have said that unless things changed their alts will be the old grandfathered ones they already had, because they’re just not willing to deal with the trait unlock system.

I also convinced a friend to pick up the game before I realize how bad it was and she is having much less fun with it because she cant freely experiment with her build. Sure, she would’ve had to pay respec costs before, but how often did you need to actually reassign your points, really?

= What I’m doing to circumvent the cost =

Instead of paying attention to your neat content I’m waypoint hopping while it’s still cheap, clearing out skill challenges on all maps. The 200 skill points I can get this way should get me through most of the skill point cost, which is the worst of it for a veteran player running alts. If you’re a new player even if you’re doing the skill challenges you’ll never have the gold. It’ll still wipe out my bank balance and make sure I’ll never be able to afford all that nifty cultural and order armor you guys put so much effort into.

Additionally I’ve looked up guides to determine what build I want and I’m focussing only on getting the traits I need for that unlocked. This isn’t what you wanted with multiple viable builds, now people are going even more flavor of the month because of the huge cost associated with getting even a single build up and running.

Is this how you want us to play the game? O_o

= The problems =

- Trait unlock quests are the same for every class. 100% Lornar’s Pass? Well I already did world completion on my main, but okay. I’ll do it again. And again. And again. And OH GOD KILL ME PLEASE. I did it today, never again. It took me all day to 100% Lornar’s Pass. I don’t even wanna think about some of the other zones. And you want me to do this for every alt I roll? Doing the same story dungeon over and over? I can’t even get my guildmates to do explorable token runs.

- Speaking of explorables, those paths tend to be merciless. Without proper traits, they’ve become that much harder for new players to get in on. Imagine pugging; “Oh, you’re a new player? Sorry dude. /kick”.

- Purchase price is ridiculous, at 360 skillpoints and almost 50 gold. This is impossible for new players who will be stuck with bad traits, feeling bored and stuck with the same gameplay until they reach either 60 and they can start grinding out skill scrolls in WvW to unlock traits, or 80 if they’re into PvE. Even giving the benefit of the doubt that 50% of the unlocks aren’t ridiculous tasks, that’s still 180 skillpoints and 24 gold to buy the rest. It’s just not feasible for anyone but the most dedicated, veteran of players. I’ve played for well over a year and I can’t afford to do it.

- Trait unlocks require WvW/don’t allow WvW. Some people like leveling exclusively in WvW, some people hate PvP and want nothing of it. When you’re forcing people to do Obsidian Sanctum for their falling damage mitigation trait, you’re forcing them to deal with PvP they might not be interested in. Without the falling damage mitigation trait, doing jumping puzzles is unwise at best, cutting off people from a huge chunk of PvE content unless they spend the cost again. Vice versa, those with no taste for PvE can’t unlock the vast majority of traits.

- Uplevels are now a liability in WvW. Whereas before an uplevel could tweak their build as needed as they progressed through levels to offer maximum efficiency to their server, now they’re bland, untraited, generic and just not very good. And I’m saying this as someone who runs uplevels through WvW. I’m not just there for free exp, I want to be useful and that’s basically impossible now.

- A lot of the content is impossible to solo. This makes it even more of a drag to unlock traits.

= Possible solutions =

What should be done at minimum is to make the unlocks account-based and not character based, because making me 100% Lornar’s Pass over and freaking over is just ridiculous. I know someone is very proud of the work they did on that zone, but I hate that zone and after the 2nd time 100%ing it I am well and truly sick of it.

What you should really do is tone down the money cost (its like 20 times as expensive as it used to be), remove the skill point cost entirely, make the activities required to unlock traits soloable activities, or at least activities you can do with a small group of 2-3 people, and have a WvW and a PvE unlock activity for every trait. And even then, if you can’t be bothered making the activities unique for every class, then make them account bound. If you get to be lazy, so do we.

Oh and I’ll add that I really love the free retraiting. Issue is, I only love it on my pre-April character who was level 80 long before this change hit. I loathe it with the fiery fury of a thousand suns otherwise.

Is anyone even listening at anet? Seriously. Argument after argument is laid out for you and yet nothing. It is CLEAR this was a bad decision. Just deal with the failure. Please fix it.

Not sure if this horrible trait system, or the fact they shoved it down our throats and walked away is causing my recent bad attitude about the game. Call me a rebel, but brutally forcing me to do something makes me hate it and not wanting to do it.

For what it’s worth…..looking for a new game never crossed my mind until after trying out the new trait system. Truly Sad!

Maybe they will change ot in the next feature pack

ozmaniandevil.6805:

Is anyone even listening at anet? Seriously. Argument after argument is laid out for you and yet nothing. It is CLEAR this was a bad decision. Just deal with the failure. Please fix it.

Agreed, they are delusional if they think these changes are good in the long term, in fact screwing with the core character progression experience was hands down the worst decision they made with the game.

The new content is a temporary fix to a problem that is causing the player base to dwindle.

Like others, I’ve left plenty of feedback outlining exactly why this system does NOT promote PvE and how players are circumventing it.

I’m done with this game and with being ignored by this company.

Scientia.8924:

I’m done with this game and with being ignored by this company.

I agree. I just can’t find anywhere else better to go. Since the trait change I haven’t even bothered doing dailys etc (with the exception of the LS2 episode 1 which I enjoyed).

4 empty character slots on this, my EU account, which will never be filled. Several outfits and armour skin sets which will never be bought. I guess I should thank Anet for breaking my altitis.

End of page 29 and STILL no feedback on a thread that Anet merged to get feedback.. Player have given feedback, why nothing yet from Anet ?

Not even a " we are looking into this", nada …….

A few months passed and people are STILL acting all entitled about this? You could have unlocked everything you need on all 5 characters during that time instead of raging and demanding that Anet changes their game.
For the record:
1. You don’t need to unlock every trait anyway unless you want to be switching builds every few seconds, and if you have multiple sets of armor with different stats for that, I don’t see why are you complaining.
2. I leveled my second character, a mesmer, post-patch without having a biased opinion about the change and guess what, I faced no problems.
3. Don’t delude yourself with thinking that you are important enough to listen to your every whim. You already bought the game.

Ascimator.6735:

A few months passed and people are STILL acting all entitled about this? You could have unlocked everything you need on all 5 characters during that time instead of raging and demanding that Anet changes their game.
For the record:
1. You don’t need to unlock every trait anyway unless you want to be switching builds every few seconds, and if you have multiple sets of armor with different stats for that, I don’t see why are you complaining.
2. I leveled my second character, a mesmer, post-patch without having a biased opinion about the change and guess what, I faced no problems.
3. Don’t delude yourself with thinking that you are important enough to listen to your every whim. You already bought the game.

It’s not entitlement, it was literally a bad idea to gate things like this. I’ve had friends who started right after the change leave because it’s too much work, especially after they heard it didn’t use to be like this. Anet is losing money over this, and no business in their right mind would keep it going without rolling back or deciding on a fix on it and saying “We were wrong.”

@Ascimator.6735

1. Irrelevant point because the majority of traits are not simple+stat modifiers that are found on armor sets.
2. YMMV. Though I will say you are in the minority when compared to the other 1400 posts.
3. Irrelevant point – this is an MMO, not an offline single player game. How do you think Anet pays for all the ongoing 24/7 server upkeep and employee labor in a game without subscription fees? If they don’t retain players, they are paying out of pocket.

Scientia.8924:

@Ascimator.6735

1. Irrelevant point because the majority of traits are not simple+stat modifiers that are found on armor sets.
2. YMMV. Though I will say you are in the minority when compared to the other 1400 posts.
3. Irrelevant point – this is an MMO, not an offline single player game. How do you think Anet pays for all the ongoing 24/7 server upkeep and employee labor in a game without subscription fees? If they don’t retain players, they are paying out of pocket.

1. I meant it in the sense that you won’t be willing to switch between different builds (DPS, survivability, etc) without having different sets of gear to fit these playstyles.
2. Point taken.
3. I have serious suspicion that the majority of people who complain about changes buy gems regularly. And until they do, they are little more than a waste of server space, not to offend. Besides, a significant part of the playerbase, as it often happens, might not be visiting forums at all, so that “everyone wants change you are losing players anet” attitude is prone to be exaggerated. Potential players Anet will lose because the complainers will tell all their friends “Don’t buy gw2, they made it so you have to put in a little more effort to become cool” is, on a rough estimation, nothing next to the influx of newcomers through various channels.
To put it simply, go ahead and quit if you so desire. Unless you spent more money on gems regularly than on the game itself, that will be a net gain for Anet. And I’ll personally be glad to have less lag and less players with a bad attitude.

Ascimator.6735:

Scientia.8924:

@Ascimator.6735

1. Irrelevant point because the majority of traits are not simple+stat modifiers that are found on armor sets.
2. YMMV. Though I will say you are in the minority when compared to the other 1400 posts.
3. Irrelevant point – this is an MMO, not an offline single player game. How do you think Anet pays for all the ongoing 24/7 server upkeep and employee labor in a game without subscription fees? If they don’t retain players, they are paying out of pocket.

1. I meant it in the sense that you won’t be willing to switch between different builds (DPS, survivability, etc) without having different sets of gear to fit these playstyles.
2. Point taken.
3. I have serious suspicion that the majority of people who complain about changes buy gems regularly. And until they do, they are little more than a waste of server space, not to offend. Besides, a significant part of the playerbase, as it often happens, might not be visiting forums at all, so that “everyone wants change you are losing players anet” attitude is prone to be exaggerated. Potential players Anet will lose because the complainers will tell all their friends “Don’t buy gw2, they made it so you have to put in a little more effort to become cool” is, on a rough estimation, nothing next to the influx of newcomers through various channels.
To put it simply, go ahead and quit if you so desire. Unless you spent more money on gems regularly than on the game itself, that will be a net gain for Anet. And I’ll personally be glad to have less lag and less players with a bad attitude.

Though you do have some very valid points, have you tried ( from a new player with no saved up gold etc) to actually " play their way" and use the supposed flexability of builds since the patch…

Where for a lvl 30’s skill you have to be in a lvl 50 area, or kill a boss that takes a major event chain ( new player remember so no guild mates)

Or get slaughtered over and over in WvW when the trait you need is in a green area and they are dominating the war and you are red !

Or maybe you say buy them …. great but new players are going to need the skill points and for sure are not going to have all that gold as dungeon farming is basically lvl 80 onwards (lvl 80 Zerk only LFG ) especially now that new players are not going to have the needed traits……

Ascimator.6735:

Scientia.8924:

@Ascimator.6735

1. Irrelevant point because the majority of traits are not simple+stat modifiers that are found on armor sets.
2. YMMV. Though I will say you are in the minority when compared to the other 1400 posts.
3. Irrelevant point – this is an MMO, not an offline single player game. How do you think Anet pays for all the ongoing 24/7 server upkeep and employee labor in a game without subscription fees? If they don’t retain players, they are paying out of pocket.

1. I meant it in the sense that you won’t be willing to switch between different builds (DPS, survivability, etc) without having different sets of gear to fit these playstyles.
2. Point taken.
3. I have serious suspicion that the majority of people who complain about changes buy gems regularly. And until they do, they are little more than a waste of server space, not to offend. Besides, a significant part of the playerbase, as it often happens, might not be visiting forums at all, so that “everyone wants change you are losing players anet” attitude is prone to be exaggerated. Potential players Anet will lose because the complainers will tell all their friends “Don’t buy gw2, they made it so you have to put in a little more effort to become cool” is, on a rough estimation, nothing next to the influx of newcomers through various channels.
To put it simply, go ahead and quit if you so desire. Unless you spent more money on gems regularly than on the game itself, that will be a net gain for Anet. And I’ll personally be glad to have less lag and less players with a bad attitude.

I spent hundreds of dollars on this game and it is why I have complained. I feel most of those that complain do it because they, like me, feel ripped off that they spent so much money on this game, only for anet/ncsoft to ruin it.

EDIT: oh yeah and thank you for bumping this thread we need all the help we can get to keep it alive till anet does something

Kohlteth.3715:

Though you do have some very valid points, have you tried ( from a new player with no saved up gold etc) to actually " play their way" and use the supposed flexability of builds since the patch…

Where for a lvl 30’s skill you have to be in a lvl 50 area, or kill a boss that takes a major event chain ( new player remember so no guild mates)

Or get slaughtered over and over in WvW when the trait you need is in a green area and they are dominating the war and you are red !

Or maybe you say buy them …. great but new players are going to need the skill points and for sure are not going to have all that gold as dungeon farming is basically lvl 80 onwards (lvl 80 Zerk only LFG ) especially now that new players are not going to have the needed traits……

Or you could just accept that you won’t necessarily have access to every trait in the tier just because you can equip them already. You don’t complain that you are not granted all the lvl 45 gear once you’re lvl 45, right?
Think of them as goals, not rewards.

You obviously have NOT read a word anyone else in this thread has said about the ludicrous things you have to do to unlock some of these traits……..

Funniest one I have found yet is having to complete Obsidian Sanctuary JP for the Falling Damage one ……..

If they were maybe account bound, not so bad, but a Charr or Norn doing that JP has so many camera issues it is dumb !

Ascimator.6735:

Kohlteth.3715:

Though you do have some very valid points, have you tried ( from a new player with no saved up gold etc) to actually " play their way" and use the supposed flexability of builds since the patch…

Where for a lvl 30’s skill you have to be in a lvl 50 area, or kill a boss that takes a major event chain ( new player remember so no guild mates)

Or get slaughtered over and over in WvW when the trait you need is in a green area and they are dominating the war and you are red !

Or maybe you say buy them …. great but new players are going to need the skill points and for sure are not going to have all that gold as dungeon farming is basically lvl 80 onwards (lvl 80 Zerk only LFG ) especially now that new players are not going to have the needed traits……

Or you could just accept that you won’t necessarily have access to every trait in the tier just because you can equip them already. You don’t complain that you are not granted all the lvl 45 gear once you’re lvl 45, right?
Think of them as goals, not rewards.

why should we settle for something that is not as good as we had before. Ya ever heard the saying if it isn’t broken then don’t fix it. That was one part of the game that was fine and did not need fixing. So why should we settle for something less than we had before.

Ascimator.6735:

Kohlteth.3715:

Though you do have some very valid points, have you tried ( from a new player with no saved up gold etc) to actually " play their way" and use the supposed flexability of builds since the patch…

Where for a lvl 30’s skill you have to be in a lvl 50 area, or kill a boss that takes a major event chain ( new player remember so no guild mates)

Or get slaughtered over and over in WvW when the trait you need is in a green area and they are dominating the war and you are red !

Or maybe you say buy them …. great but new players are going to need the skill points and for sure are not going to have all that gold as dungeon farming is basically lvl 80 onwards (lvl 80 Zerk only LFG ) especially now that new players are not going to have the needed traits……

Or you could just accept that you won’t necessarily have access to every trait in the tier just because you can equip them already. You don’t complain that you are not granted all the lvl 45 gear once you’re lvl 45, right?
Think of them as goals, not rewards.

There are 9 out of 30 adept-level traits that are achievable at level 36 via normal gameplay. Please, try to defend that.

(Reason for edit: Math is hard!)

Ascimator.6735:

…….
To put it simply, go ahead and quit if you so desire. Unless you spent more money on gems regularly than on the game itself, that will be a net gain for Anet. And I’ll personally be glad to have less lag and less players with a bad attitude.

I have spent more money on gems than on the game itself, but no more. I liked leveling alts, but no more. So although I have not stopped playing I have stopped buying slots for alts. In some regards this new trait system is good for me since I will not level a character under this new trait system and 10 characters really is enough.

EDIT: I still enjoy playing GW2 with my level 80 characters but a fun part of the game is no longer available to me. And I can no longer recommend this game to others and I no longer have a GW2 banner in my sig file on other forums.

So, yeah… I now have kill the grub in EBG for my rare XII trait (trait-line #5). I need it for a build I’m trying to use so I’m rather kitten without it for the time being. Problem is, we’re green this week in WvW (and have been since the end of season because we’re top of our tier) and my understanding is the grub is NOT solo’able.

So, here I am. I’ve now likely been blocked in half map chat (who are all at this point telling me to shut up) for begging the Commander to swing by and help me grab it (in enemy territory, near their spawn). Such was one of my only two real options here. It’s either that, or wait until we’re blue some random week (which as stated, hasn’t been since season ended).

…….. Sigh……..

Thank you Anet, for the delightful time… By that, I of course mean I’m glad I have absolutely no reason to ever make any more alts ever again, and am doing everything in my power to warn others of the potential strife in doing so themselves. The reaction to the screenies I took of my brand new lvl 80 with a complete wall of locked traits got a huge reaction from my guild on our website. They were met with a mixture of disbelief and/or hilarity. Mostly at my expense. Some members of our rather large guild even have since went on hiatus from the game itself.

/resign

Lobo Dela Noche.5127:

why should we settle for something that is not as good as we had before. Ya ever heard the saying if it isn’t broken then don’t fix it. That was one part of the game that was fine and did not need fixing. So why should we settle for something less than we had before.

Oh, you wouldn’t believe how often things like that happen in every sphere of life. Slightly better than demanding more and more until your natural human greed can’t be satisfied.
As I’ve said, I don’t see how the SP/silver cost for a newbie is so insurmountable, unless they are completely unable of planning ahead and mapping out a general way they want to play their character. And most of the people I see complaining (I really want to use a harsher word because it fits better, but I’ve been warned once already) are on their 2nd-5th chars, have enough gold (do you REALLY need every single trait?), have access to leveling/SP tomes and are generally more experienced, allowing them to plan ahead better and buy only the traits they know are good.
It also would not really be repelling for a newbie to discover they can’t unlock this one major trait yet. Most likely they will either scrounge up 2sp and how much silver again it was or will be patient. Unless, of course, some heartbroken lvl 80 walks up to them and whispers “pssst, quit this game, you don’t deserve the world to be SO CRUEL”. You are only complaining because it’s been easier for you before.
Besides, if you want to test different builds, there’s this shiny mode called sPvP where you can tinker with every trait without any effort and test them out on dummies and NPCs.
tl:dr: the new change does not really harm neither newbies nor veterans, the only reason of 29 pages here is because people have accepted the mentality of “ANET WHY DONT YOU LISTEN TO US!?” instead of adapting.

Oogabooga.9138:

If you enjoy playing this game the way Anet wants you to play then so be it. Although, I would recommend actually reading the posts before making such a callous response regarding other players mentality. I wish I could go through life with blinders on too.

And I would recommend you to avoid implying that I “have blinders on” because I dare to think that it’s not as bad as you’re making it out to be.
But really, you’d think people would realize after 6 months of tugging on Anet’s skirt that they will not listen because it’s their game and they want it to remain like this because they like the change. It seems that after all, the charts did not show a massive enough downfall of players, which implies that whoever actually quit the game is in the minority.

Ascimator.6735:

3. I have serious suspicion that the majority of people who complain about changes buy gems regularly. And until they do, they are little more than a waste of server space, not to offend.

My guildmates who are no longer rolling alts (they love alts) would buy around $10 worth of gems a month, sometimes more. They’re not gonna be buying new character slots, ANet is earning less. I bought 80 euros worth of gems this past couple weeks, thinking of spending more to get the infinite axe. I also brought in a new player who thinks the game is kinda grindy and boring muchly because of the trait system.

So uh. Yeah.

Ascimator.6735:

Oogabooga.9138:

If you enjoy playing this game the way Anet wants you to play then so be it. Although, I would recommend actually reading the posts before making such a callous response regarding other players mentality. I wish I could go through life with blinders on too.

And I would recommend you to avoid implying that I “have blinders on” because I dare to think that it’s not as bad as you’re making it out to be.
But really, you’d think people would realize after 6 months of tugging on Anet’s skirt that they will not listen because it’s their game and they want it to remain like this because they like the change. It seems that after all, the charts did not show a massive enough downfall of players, which implies that whoever actually quit the game is in the minority.

I honestly believe it is because most players have not experienced it yet. I am curious to see what the uproar will be like when they, if they, introduce a new class or race. I am willing to bet it will be insane.

Ascimator.6735:

Or you could just accept that you won’t necessarily have access to every trait in the tier just because you can equip them already. You don’t complain that you are not granted all the lvl 45 gear once you’re lvl 45, right?
Think of them as goals, not rewards.

Comparing traits to gear does not work.

You can buy any stat combination you want, or at least have workable stat combinations, when you are at lvl 45. Not having every skin available at that level, or at any level, is not going to impact your gameplay.

This is not the case with traits.

For instance, the first trait I always get is the one for reduced falling damage. I am a jump puzzle addict so this, for me, is a necessary trait if I want to fully enjoy the game. No, I am not good enough to not fall so, yes, I need this trait. I also suck bigtime at PvP of any kind, including WvW.

Having this stuck behind the Obsidian Sanctum JP meant that, if I wanted to do JPs on this new character, I had to buy it because, while I can do OS, I can’t do it if any enemies are there. The cherry on top would be that I would have had to do it on my lowbie… without the trait and with low gear.

Luckily I had some scrolls so I could buy it. If I had been a new player, this would have screwed me badly.

Ascimator.6735:

I don’t see how the SP/silver cost for a newbie is so insurmountable, unless they are completely unable of planning ahead and mapping out a general way they want to play their character.

The drop rate for the scrolls is rather bad. I decided to farm my way up to have enough scrolls to buy these things if needed. I went into EotM on a geared 80 and farmed 40-50 champ bags.

I got 7 scrolls. Seven. If the drop rate was better, I would not be as bothered by this. I don’t have enough time to spend many hours in game. As it is I have to choose between spending my game time farming these things in EoTM or doing stuff that I like and slowly, very slowly, accumulating them in normal play.

A newbie would have to farm for them in areas they can get into. He could farm in Edge of the Mists if he knows about it and gets into a good zerg. His frustration tolerance would have to be high because, while he is leveled up, his gear is not. Likely he would die even more frequently than I, a crappy PvPer, do.

The character I rolled post patch is a Guardian, I have been playing since Beta. I have not played a Guard before but have more of a clue than someone new to the game, obviously.

It would be difficult for a new player to plan ahead and farm these scrolls. Then, what if this newbie wants to change his strategy/ finds that what he planned doesn’t work/ etc?

He is screwed.

I am not going to quit the game over this but I think this Guard is my last alt. I am not going to quit buying gems but I will be buying less since I don’t need any new character slots, no more bag slots (I max them), or anything else that goes on a new character.

Eniko.1476:

My guildmates who are no longer rolling alts (they love alts) would buy around $10 worth of gems a month, sometimes more. They’re not gonna be buying new character slots, ANet is earning less. I bought 80 euros worth of gems this past couple weeks, thinking of spending more to get the infinite axe. I also brought in a new player who thinks the game is kinda grindy and boring muchly because of the trait system.

So uh. Yeah.

I have well over 12 now, for various race/class combos and looks. I’m not buying any new slots, after my first experiment went flush down the toilet.

But yes, ANet is losing potential players in its NA/EU market from this. We’re not recommending this game to our friends, even though we still play it. We’re not buying new character slots. Which means buying less cosmetic items (outfits, transmutation charges, gear skins…) to support those characters.

Sad thing is, if they would just make the challenges level-appropriate and make them less reliant on mob events (Obsidian Sanctum, temple defenses), a lot of us would actually like it a little. There’s dozens of posts in previous pages in this thread that would make this new trait design work, if ANet would actually listen.

Ascimator.6735:

Lobo Dela Noche.5127:

why should we settle for something that is not as good as we had before. Ya ever heard the saying if it isn’t broken then don’t fix it. That was one part of the game that was fine and did not need fixing. So why should we settle for something less than we had before.

Oh, you wouldn’t believe how often things like that happen in every sphere of life. Slightly better than demanding more and more until your natural human greed can’t be satisfied.
As I’ve said, I don’t see how the SP/silver cost for a newbie is so insurmountable, unless they are completely unable of planning ahead and mapping out a general way they want to play their character. And most of the people I see complaining (I really want to use a harsher word because it fits better, but I’ve been warned once already) are on their 2nd-5th chars, have enough gold (do you REALLY need every single trait?), have access to leveling/SP tomes and are generally more experienced, allowing them to plan ahead better and buy only the traits they know are good.
It also would not really be repelling for a newbie to discover they can’t unlock this one major trait yet. Most likely they will either scrounge up 2sp and how much silver again it was or will be patient. Unless, of course, some heartbroken lvl 80 walks up to them and whispers “pssst, quit this game, you don’t deserve the world to be SO CRUEL”. You are only complaining because it’s been easier for you before.
Besides, if you want to test different builds, there’s this shiny mode called sPvP where you can tinker with every trait without any effort and test them out on dummies and NPCs.
tl:dr: the new change does not really harm neither newbies nor veterans, the only reason of 29 pages here is because people have accepted the mentality of “ANET WHY DONT YOU LISTEN TO US!?” instead of adapting.

This is what happens when you feed trolls. They keep coming back for more.

what we wanted: more flexibility in traits – we did got that
what we got as extra: allot more grind and traits locked away behind objectives way to far in the game – no one asked for that

what the solution would be: remove the extra, keep the asked feature.