Guild Wars 2

So an update to my warrior alt. I haven’t been spending skill points and gold on unlocking traits yet (though I am farming skill challenges in preparation). She just hit 48 and I got a trait point, first time in forever that my hero panel had an exclamation mark on it. I haven’t been unlocking traits specifically except for one, so I’ve unlocked 6 traits:

- 5 of them are in the arms trait. One of those is a green trait I cannot use. I think I got that one in WvW.
- 1 is in defense, and it is also green, so I think I also got that one via WvW?

I already had 2 points in arms to use Crack Shot, the game won’t let me go to master tier yet, so I can’t put more points in arms to use the other traits, and I can’t use the master traits I have unlocked.

So if I put 2 points in one of my other traits, I have an empty unfillable hex staring at me. So I had to put 1 in defense and 1 in strength. And this is supposed to feel satisfying how? “Oh a new trait point, I can get a new ability! … Oh wait I can’t…”

Bellizare.5816:

Ascimator.6735:

Lobo Dela Noche.5127:

why should we settle for something that is not as good as we had before. Ya ever heard the saying if it isn’t broken then don’t fix it. That was one part of the game that was fine and did not need fixing. So why should we settle for something less than we had before.

Oh, you wouldn’t believe how often things like that happen in every sphere of life. Slightly better than demanding more and more until your natural human greed can’t be satisfied.
As I’ve said, I don’t see how the SP/silver cost for a newbie is so insurmountable, unless they are completely unable of planning ahead and mapping out a general way they want to play their character. And most of the people I see complaining (I really want to use a harsher word because it fits better, but I’ve been warned once already) are on their 2nd-5th chars, have enough gold (do you REALLY need every single trait?), have access to leveling/SP tomes and are generally more experienced, allowing them to plan ahead better and buy only the traits they know are good.
It also would not really be repelling for a newbie to discover they can’t unlock this one major trait yet. Most likely they will either scrounge up 2sp and how much silver again it was or will be patient. Unless, of course, some heartbroken lvl 80 walks up to them and whispers “pssst, quit this game, you don’t deserve the world to be SO CRUEL”. You are only complaining because it’s been easier for you before.
Besides, if you want to test different builds, there’s this shiny mode called sPvP where you can tinker with every trait without any effort and test them out on dummies and NPCs.
tl:dr: the new change does not really harm neither newbies nor veterans, the only reason of 29 pages here is because people have accepted the mentality of “ANET WHY DONT YOU LISTEN TO US!?” instead of adapting.

This is what happens when you feed trolls. They keep coming back for more.

No intention of trolling here, though I do see now that debating with you is useless. If I was truly intending to troll, I wouldn’t feel like I wasted my time.

Ascimator.6735:

A few months passed and people are STILL acting all entitled about this?

Well I wouldn’t say I’m “entitled”, but I still don’t agree with these changes. As a more “rewarding experience” it doesn’t make sense; the open-endedness that used to exist in progression through the PvE world was plenty rewarding. It makes way more sense as a means of ‘herding’ or spreading the population throughout the game world, but that could’ve been achieved without touching the trait progression.

Bear in mind: This is not a “doom and gloom” post; I certainly don’t think these changes spell ‘death’ for leveling, and if you’re still new to the game you’re probably going to be too engaged in the world to care. But I would argue that this new system is less enjoyable, and can certainly make replaying it a bit more tiresome.

Ascimator.6735:

Oogabooga.9138:

If you enjoy playing this game the way Anet wants you to play then so be it. Although, I would recommend actually reading the posts before making such a callous response regarding other players mentality. I wish I could go through life with blinders on too.

And I would recommend you to avoid implying that I “have blinders on” because I dare to think that it’s not as bad as you’re making it out to be.
But really, you’d think people would realize after 6 months of tugging on Anet’s skirt that they will not listen because it’s their game and they want it to remain like this because they like the change. It seems that after all, the charts did not show a massive enough downfall of players, which implies that whoever actually quit the game is in the minority.

April 15th was 6 months ago? Huh.

Haha, seriously? How could you even defend this new system Ascimator? Your logic fails. 30 pages of suggestions, sound logic, and reasoning, has come to the conclusion that this new system fails for new alts and new players. You are in the minority, and the majority of players dislike this new system.

nexxe.7081:

Haha, seriously? How could you even defend this new system Ascimator? Your logic fails. 30 pages of suggestions, sound logic, and reasoning, has come to the conclusion that this new system fails for new alts and new players. You are in the minority, and the majority of players dislike this new system.

You claim that my logic fails, yet you mix up the majority of players who posted here and the majority of players overall? These values do not correlate, you know.

Ascimator’s points are valid in his mind, as I am sure there are a few that actually like this new system. Haven’t meet anybody yet but to many play this game.

Now for the big question! Are we doomed to suffer thru this new trait rework or is A-net going to fix it? If not, I sure hope the developers keep me interested with frequent fresh new content. My alt building days are over as long as this system is in place.

KStudios.2850:

So, yeah… I now have kill the grub in EBG for my rare XII trait (trait-line #5). I need it for a build I’m trying to use so I’m rather kitten without it for the time being. Problem is, we’re green this week in WvW (and have been since the end of season because we’re top of our tier) and my understanding is the grub is NOT solo’able.

So, here I am. I’ve now likely been blocked in half map chat (who are all at this point telling me to shut up) for begging the Commander to swing by and help me grab it (in enemy territory, near their spawn). Such was one of my only two real options here. It’s either that, or wait until we’re blue some random week (which as stated, hasn’t been since season ended).

…….. Sigh……..

Thank you Anet, for the delightful time… By that, I of course mean I’m glad I have absolutely no reason to ever make any more alts ever again, and am doing everything in my power to warn others of the potential strife in doing so themselves. The reaction to the screenies I took of my brand new lvl 80 with a complete wall of locked traits got a huge reaction from my guild on our website. They were met with a mixture of disbelief and/or hilarity. Mostly at my expense. Some members of our rather large guild even have since went on hiatus from the game itself.

/resign

Why haven’t you just bought it, then?

I think, if they would do something like say “kill a champion in the 25-35 zones” for any blue trait, “kill a champion in any 50-60 zone” for any green, and “kill a champion in any 70-80 zone” for yellow traits with us being able to select from a drop-down menu which trait of that level we want, would be perfect. If it were something like this, it would be much more doable, and better all around.

Keysha.2815:

I think, if they would do something like say “kill a champion in the 25-35 zones” for any blue trait, “kill a champion in any 50-60 zone” for any green, and “kill a champion in any 70-80 zone” for yellow traits with us being able to select from a drop-down menu which trait of that level we want, would be perfect. If it were something like this, it would be much more doable, and better all around.

Not bad not bad at all.

or even if they just fixed what you have to do to unlock ADEPT traits instead of being in places that you wont go until way later !

Or never get to unless real lucky ( WvW unlocks)

Ascimator.6735:

Lobo Dela Noche.5127:

why should we settle for something that is not as good as we had before. Ya ever heard the saying if it isn’t broken then don’t fix it. That was one part of the game that was fine and did not need fixing. So why should we settle for something less than we had before.

Oh, you wouldn’t believe how often things like that happen in every sphere of life. Slightly better than demanding more and more until your natural human greed can’t be satisfied.
As I’ve said, I don’t see how the SP/silver cost for a newbie is so insurmountable, unless they are completely unable of planning ahead and mapping out a general way they want to play their character. And most of the people I see complaining (I really want to use a harsher word because it fits better, but I’ve been warned once already) are on their 2nd-5th chars, have enough gold (do you REALLY need every single trait?), have access to leveling/SP tomes and are generally more experienced, allowing them to plan ahead better and buy only the traits they know are good.
It also would not really be repelling for a newbie to discover they can’t unlock this one major trait yet. Most likely they will either scrounge up 2sp and how much silver again it was or will be patient. Unless, of course, some heartbroken lvl 80 walks up to them and whispers “pssst, quit this game, you don’t deserve the world to be SO CRUEL”. You are only complaining because it’s been easier for you before.
Besides, if you want to test different builds, there’s this shiny mode called sPvP where you can tinker with every trait without any effort and test them out on dummies and NPCs.
tl:dr: the new change does not really harm neither newbies nor veterans, the only reason of 29 pages here is because people have accepted the mentality of “ANET WHY DONT YOU LISTEN TO US!?” instead of adapting.

When a restaurant changes its recipes sometimes it works and sometimes it doesn’t. If I preferred what they had before and I tell the owner, he might take it personally or he might listen and go back to the old recipe(especially if enough people do the same). Its true some people might not think the stuff is that bad but everyone who tasted the good stuff will tell all there friends and family that its not as good anymore and it will affect their business.

I may be the exception but when I enjoy something I tell everyone and when I dislike something I do the same. For about the first year of this game I told many people about how good the game was trying to get as many as I could to join. Now many of them ask me sarcastically how the game is going because the word is out there already that GW2 is a flop. Then when I tell them about the state of the game and all the wonderful updates they just laugh because its kittening pitiful.

Becka Williams.4978:

KStudios.2850:

So, yeah… I now have kill the grub in EBG for my rare XII trait (trait-line #5). I need it for a build I’m trying to use so I’m rather kitten without it for the time being. Problem is, we’re green this week in WvW (and have been since the end of season because we’re top of our tier) and my understanding is the grub is NOT solo’able.

So, here I am. I’ve now likely been blocked in half map chat (who are all at this point telling me to shut up) for begging the Commander to swing by and help me grab it (in enemy territory, near their spawn). Such was one of my only two real options here. It’s either that, or wait until we’re blue some random week (which as stated, hasn’t been since season ended).

…….. Sigh……..

Thank you Anet, for the delightful time… By that, I of course mean I’m glad I have absolutely no reason to ever make any more alts ever again, and am doing everything in my power to warn others of the potential strife in doing so themselves. The reaction to the screenies I took of my brand new lvl 80 with a complete wall of locked traits got a huge reaction from my guild on our website. They were met with a mixture of disbelief and/or hilarity. Mostly at my expense. Some members of our rather large guild even have since went on hiatus from the game itself.

/resign

Why haven’t you just bought it, then?

Oh no, I did… But is FARMING skill points really a great alternative?
Is that what we’re relegated to now? That’s what has been placed in our lap? Someone remind me how this is intended to be fun?

It is incomprehensible how Anet has said nothing – flat out zilch, nothing, about this yet. The dev post tracker is full of tech tickets resolutions, but .. lack of commentary on a seriously pressing issue, for literal months, over and above and past the time they once kidded to us that they were listening?

I am tired of this. Seriously freaking tired.

Lheimroo.2947:

It is incomprehensible how Anet has said nothing – flat out zilch, nothing, about this yet. The dev post tracker is full of tech tickets resolutions, but .. lack of commentary on a seriously pressing issue, for literal months, over and above and past the time they once kidded to us that they were listening?

I am tired of this. Seriously freaking tired.

Do they ever look in this forum ?

Kohlteth.3715:

Lheimroo.2947:

It is incomprehensible how Anet has said nothing – flat out zilch, nothing, about this yet. The dev post tracker is full of tech tickets resolutions, but .. lack of commentary on a seriously pressing issue, for literal months, over and above and past the time they once kidded to us that they were listening?

I am tired of this. Seriously freaking tired.

Do they ever look in this forum ?

Well, this is the official feedback thread that was provided.

radioAspen.6829:

Kohlteth.3715:

Lheimroo.2947:

It is incomprehensible how Anet has said nothing – flat out zilch, nothing, about this yet. The dev post tracker is full of tech tickets resolutions, but .. lack of commentary on a seriously pressing issue, for literal months, over and above and past the time they once kidded to us that they were listening?

I am tired of this. Seriously freaking tired.

Do they ever look in this forum ?

Well, this is the official feedback thread that was provided.

Exactly

I’m sure they are aware of this issue.

Wethospu.6437:

I’m sure they are aware of this issue.

I am starting to believe “The Publisher” made this decision to change the trait system. This may be why the dev’s are so silent or they can’t say anything. Gee! this got changed on april 15 and China release May 15th. One month should be enough time to work the kinks out huh!

I am just 1 player who’s time has really been cut in half because of it. Buy things from the gem store?? Not anymore, would make me feel like I’m actually supporting this horrible new trait system. Why does something silly have to always ruin a GREAT game?

@Ascimator:

Speaking as someone who has easily dropped (since the start of this game and being one of the many Beta weekend players), I’ve dropped a few hundred dollars on this game for myself and family members in gemcards. Whether they were for some extra cosmetic items from the gemstore, utility items, or expansion slots for one of my many alts, i’ve dropped some serious real life coin for this game. I did this because i felt that for them to continue making quality things for the game that they needed the financial support for it. I love this game. I am a LONG time Guild Wars player and GW2 player. I WANT this gamer to not only succeed, but to thrive in the field of the MMOs out there now and those yet to come out. I’m also usually one of the staunchest defenders of the developers in this game, however this particular update is rediculous.

Some quick points here for you: First, if Anet is trying to tout build diversity and the ability to change your build on the fly for free, it is counter intuitive to argue that they also didn’t mean for people to unlock and get EVERY trait in the game. If they say they are trying to make it so people aren’t beholden to the meta, then it is counter intuitive to build your trait system so people have to study and plan out to make builds that fit the meta. Its perfectly fine if you don’t feel the need to unlock all of the traits and are happy with whatever ones you unlock while playing and then buy 2 or three more for the one (maybe 2) builds you might run, but some of us play PvE and WvW and have a toon fills more than just one or two roles even in one night of play and need a certain amount of build diversity. A new player coming into the game as it is now doesn’t have the breadth of knowledge about builds and traits that I or others might have, and they certainly don’t know enough about the game mechanics to make whatever traits they do stumble upon worthwhile as they level. In many cases that might make them feel like they are running sub-optimal builds just for running around in the world and if they don’t have someone helping them, they might get too drustrated with the game and leave before getting very far. That is money Anet won’t be getting. Second: When a system gates things like traits, which are specific to the abilities of an individual toon, behind events that occur in PvP areas like WvW, or in dungeon completion you will have many players opting to either not do it, or once again get frustrated with the game. For myself, i know i HATE doing dungeons most days. i really have to get myself into the mindset to do one and I didn’t even do my first one until I was level 80. Even then I needed to scrape together people to do it since most LFG people didn’t want me running with them if I didn’t know the dungeon. Now there will be even more people that don’t know the dungeons AND they won’t even have traits to use in said dungeon runs which means fewer people even getting to do the content even if they wanted to do it.

This update hurts the game. Period. I am currently running a small experiment and trying to level a new necro with no access to the money I accrued on my account, or karma, or materials. I’m trying to “re-see” the game as a new player as best as possible and seeing how easy or hard certain things are. There have been some positive things from this experiment, but I’m not level 30 yet, so traits and how they will or won’t affect me has yet to come up. What I do know is that i currently have a level 80 guardian that i leveled under the new system and her traits that I got organically and the ones I just bought for her still leave her feeling grotesquely incomplete. Can she function in PvE? Sure. But she doesn’t “play” they way I’d like her to and for a new player, that can be a turn off. i know for me I’ve stopped buying gem cards for a while now and i’m not the only one.

PookieDaWombat.6209:

@Ascimator:

Speaking as someone who has easily dropped (since the start of this game and being one of the many Beta weekend players), I’ve dropped a few hundred dollars on this game for myself and family members in gemcards. Whether they were for some extra cosmetic items from the gemstore, utility items, or expansion slots for one of my many alts, i’ve dropped some serious real life coin for this game. I did this because i felt that for them to continue making quality things for the game that they needed the financial support for it. I love this game. I am a LONG time Guild Wars player and GW2 player. I WANT this gamer to not only succeed, but to thrive in the field of the MMOs out there now and those yet to come out. I’m also usually one of the staunchest defenders of the developers in this game, however this particular update is rediculous.

Some quick points here for you: First, if Anet is trying to tout build diversity and the ability to change your build on the fly for free, it is counter intuitive to argue that they also didn’t mean for people to unlock and get EVERY trait in the game. If they say they are trying to make it so people aren’t beholden to the meta, then it is counter intuitive to build your trait system so people have to study and plan out to make builds that fit the meta. Its perfectly fine if you don’t feel the need to unlock all of the traits and are happy with whatever ones you unlock while playing and then buy 2 or three more for the one (maybe 2) builds you might run, but some of us play PvE and WvW and have a toon fills more than just one or two roles even in one night of play and need a certain amount of build diversity. A new player coming into the game as it is now doesn’t have the breadth of knowledge about builds and traits that I or others might have, and they certainly don’t know enough about the game mechanics to make whatever traits they do stumble upon worthwhile as they level. In many cases that might make them feel like they are running sub-optimal builds just for running around in the world and if they don’t have someone helping them, they might get too drustrated with the game and leave before getting very far. That is money Anet won’t be getting. Second: When a system gates things like traits, which are specific to the abilities of an individual toon, behind events that occur in PvP areas like WvW, or in dungeon completion you will have many players opting to either not do it, or once again get frustrated with the game. For myself, i know i HATE doing dungeons most days. i really have to get myself into the mindset to do one and I didn’t even do my first one until I was level 80. Even then I needed to scrape together people to do it since most LFG people didn’t want me running with them if I didn’t know the dungeon. Now there will be even more people that don’t know the dungeons AND they won’t even have traits to use in said dungeon runs which means fewer people even getting to do the content even if they wanted to do it.

This update hurts the game. Period. I am currently running a small experiment and trying to level a new necro with no access to the money I accrued on my account, or karma, or materials. I’m trying to “re-see” the game as a new player as best as possible and seeing how easy or hard certain things are. There have been some positive things from this experiment, but I’m not level 30 yet, so traits and how they will or won’t affect me has yet to come up. What I do know is that i currently have a level 80 guardian that i leveled under the new system and her traits that I got organically and the ones I just bought for her still leave her feeling grotesquely incomplete. Can she function in PvE? Sure. But she doesn’t “play” they way I’d like her to and for a new player, that can be a turn off. i know for me I’ve stopped buying gem cards for a while now and i’m not the only one.

I think you nailed the exact problem….

This new trait system does not serve new or old players well. It just doesn’t. It is bad that ANET still hasn’t commented to so much as let us know that they’re working on it. I can only assume that they just do not give a kitten.

So, I’ve just read over the requirements for unlocking everything. I like the idea behind this change, but the execution is… well… terrible.

You can no longer ‘choose how you play’, as you are given a roadmap of things to accomplish that are so specific that Anet may as well have just set up invisible walls to keep us from going off the path.

Seriously, I was looking forward to seeing how the new system worked (even deleted one of my lowbies to experience the new system), and now I’m unsure if I even want to keep playing anything besides my previous 80’s.

Now, I’m done with complaints. I have one suggestion that I believe could fix most peoples problems with this system.

Make the requirements more general.

I’m okay with asking people to finish a leg of their personal quest. But, how about instead of telling us a specific area to 100% explore… You just tell us to 100% explore ANY area other than the racial cities? Maybe instead of “take specific point in WvW”, just make an adept unlock “take A point in WvW”.

That’s all I got. If something isn’t done to these requirements, I don’t think I’m playing any more alts… more importantly, though… I don’t think I could recommend this game to new players.

BourbonDingo.6187:

So, I’ve just read over the requirements for unlocking everything. I like the idea behind this change, but the execution is… well… terrible.

You can no longer ‘choose how you play’, as you are given a roadmap of things to accomplish that are so specific that Anet may as well have just set up invisible walls to keep us from going off the path.

Seriously, I was looking forward to seeing how the new system worked (even deleted one of my lowbies to experience the new system), and now I’m unsure if I even want to keep playing anything besides my previous 80’s.

Now, I’m done with complaints. I have one suggestion that I believe could fix most peoples problems with this system.

Make the requirements more general.

I’m okay with asking people to finish a leg of their personal quest. But, how about instead of telling us a specific area to 100% explore… You just tell us to 100% explore ANY area other than the racial cities? Maybe instead of “take specific point in WvW”, just make an adept unlock “take A point in WvW”.

That’s all I got. If something isn’t done to these requirements, I don’t think I’m playing any more alts… more importantly, though… I don’t think I could recommend this game to new players.

Either make the requirements more general, or make it so that you get a choice of events to unlock specific traits. No one really should be forced into WvW to unlock a trait. It’s sort of silly. No one should have to run a dungeon.

For me it doesn’t matter, because I play all content in the game, and I’m happy to do pretty much anything, but I think this will throw a lot of people off who have a narrower comfort zone.

I recently picked up the game again.

Had 2 80’s ..I only noticed the new trait system when I jumped on my lowbie toons and I have to say that it’s rather silly.

The system that does not feel rewarding during the leveling process and actually discourages people from delving into alts etc.
Not a fan at all. I’ll be sticking to my 80’s. Having nothing to aim for in an incremental fashion during the leveling process is stupid.

I’m wondering why the old system was discarded, it worked very well and gave people more control over their build and leveling process.

Vayne.8563:

BourbonDingo.6187:

So, I’ve just read over the requirements for unlocking everything. I like the idea behind this change, but the execution is… well… terrible.

You can no longer ‘choose how you play’, as you are given a roadmap of things to accomplish that are so specific that Anet may as well have just set up invisible walls to keep us from going off the path.

Seriously, I was looking forward to seeing how the new system worked (even deleted one of my lowbies to experience the new system), and now I’m unsure if I even want to keep playing anything besides my previous 80’s.

Now, I’m done with complaints. I have one suggestion that I believe could fix most peoples problems with this system.

Make the requirements more general.

I’m okay with asking people to finish a leg of their personal quest. But, how about instead of telling us a specific area to 100% explore… You just tell us to 100% explore ANY area other than the racial cities? Maybe instead of “take specific point in WvW”, just make an adept unlock “take A point in WvW”.

That’s all I got. If something isn’t done to these requirements, I don’t think I’m playing any more alts… more importantly, though… I don’t think I could recommend this game to new players.

Either make the requirements more general, or make it so that you get a choice of events to unlock specific traits. No one really should be forced into WvW to unlock a trait. It’s sort of silly. No one should have to run a dungeon.

For me it doesn’t matter, because I play all content in the game, and I’m happy to do pretty much anything, but I think this will throw a lot of people off who have a narrower comfort zone.

No one should have to do map completion for a single trait, something that requires a lot of tasks to be done over an extended period of time. For a single trait that might not even be useful. That’s one of the things that makes me wonder about just how much thought was put into this system.

None of this really has effected me since I had all traits unlocked except the new ones, I play WvW alot, the trait unlocks shouldnt be there, yesterday I must have helped people befriend the merc camps 10 times, at least half of those times we got beaten too it or ran over, then another 10 min wait til we could try again, these people will prob not want to come back to WvW again once they finished.

And Kill the grub? Do the people responsible know how long that thing takes to die? You are not going to get people to help in wvw that dont need this. I know Im not going to waste 5 mins beating up on something that will give me 4-6 boh when in that time i could have prob gotten alot more.

You can not force people to play a way they dont want to, give people an alternative thats not skill points and gold, the new one traits I paid for on my alts.. but ive been here since beta and that still burns that i will have to pay 15g an alt just for the new ones. Tbh I hate dungeons I have 1 class missing and this has made me realise I dont need it so i wont bother ( thats a char slot that i no longer have to buy)

I really hope that these threads are being read by people that can do something to change this, what happened to play the way you want.. this is not cosmetic, these traits are needed so people have a choice.

/end rant (off to kill another 50+ dredge because I cant say no to people that need help)

ThanatosAngel.8024:

No one should have to do map completion for a single trait, something that requires a lot of tasks to be done over an extended period of time. For a single trait that might not even be useful. That’s one of the things that makes me wonder about just how much thought was put into this system.

Not nearly enough, and that’s what a lot of us are protesting here. Many of us have even started fresh, no-inheritence characters, earning only what we did in game, just so we can understand how terrible this is. It begs the question, where were the playtesters in all this? The current trait system was very deliberate, but it seems no one polled about its actual playability.

Vayne.8563:

BourbonDingo.6187:

So, I’ve just read over the requirements for unlocking everything. I like the idea behind this change, but the execution is… well… terrible.

You can no longer ‘choose how you play’, as you are given a roadmap of things to accomplish that are so specific that Anet may as well have just set up invisible walls to keep us from going off the path.

Seriously, I was looking forward to seeing how the new system worked (even deleted one of my lowbies to experience the new system), and now I’m unsure if I even want to keep playing anything besides my previous 80’s.

Now, I’m done with complaints. I have one suggestion that I believe could fix most peoples problems with this system.

Make the requirements more general.

I’m okay with asking people to finish a leg of their personal quest. But, how about instead of telling us a specific area to 100% explore… You just tell us to 100% explore ANY area other than the racial cities? Maybe instead of “take specific point in WvW”, just make an adept unlock “take A point in WvW”.

That’s all I got. If something isn’t done to these requirements, I don’t think I’m playing any more alts… more importantly, though… I don’t think I could recommend this game to new players.

Either make the requirements more general, or make it so that you get a choice of events to unlock specific traits. No one really should be forced into WvW to unlock a trait. It’s sort of silly. No one should have to run a dungeon.

For me it doesn’t matter, because I play all content in the game, and I’m happy to do pretty much anything, but I think this will throw a lot of people off who have a narrower comfort zone.

There are 3 ways to unlock traits currently – you can stumble upon the unlock naturally while playing, pursue a specific trait unlock or buy it with gold and skillpoints. I think that’s quite enough. There are some unlock reqs which are really out of the way/frustrating to obtain, though.

Ascimator.6735:

Vayne.8563:

BourbonDingo.6187:

So, I’ve just read over the requirements for unlocking everything. I like the idea behind this change, but the execution is… well… terrible.

You can no longer ‘choose how you play’, as you are given a roadmap of things to accomplish that are so specific that Anet may as well have just set up invisible walls to keep us from going off the path.

Seriously, I was looking forward to seeing how the new system worked (even deleted one of my lowbies to experience the new system), and now I’m unsure if I even want to keep playing anything besides my previous 80’s.

Now, I’m done with complaints. I have one suggestion that I believe could fix most peoples problems with this system.

Make the requirements more general.

I’m okay with asking people to finish a leg of their personal quest. But, how about instead of telling us a specific area to 100% explore… You just tell us to 100% explore ANY area other than the racial cities? Maybe instead of “take specific point in WvW”, just make an adept unlock “take A point in WvW”.

That’s all I got. If something isn’t done to these requirements, I don’t think I’m playing any more alts… more importantly, though… I don’t think I could recommend this game to new players.

Either make the requirements more general, or make it so that you get a choice of events to unlock specific traits. No one really should be forced into WvW to unlock a trait. It’s sort of silly. No one should have to run a dungeon.

For me it doesn’t matter, because I play all content in the game, and I’m happy to do pretty much anything, but I think this will throw a lot of people off who have a narrower comfort zone.

There are 3 ways to unlock traits currently – you can stumble upon the unlock naturally while playing, pursue a specific trait unlock or buy it with gold and skillpoints. I think that’s quite enough. There are some unlock reqs which are really out of the way/frustrating to obtain, though.

There are two ways to unlock traits currently. You can pay through the nose for it, or you can do the largely level-inappropriate tasks. Stumbling on the tasks does not make that a third option. It just means you got lucky.

This change was good when I tried it for the first time but gets boring after second and third.They should made unlock for tiers and not for all the traits that way there can be unique unlocks for all classes

it wasnt thought out well is what it boils down to. Traits are a personal thing, so the unlocks should have, for most of them, been personal ( a few high end, or special new traits needing teams would be fine)
since this is something every new charachter would need to do, it should have been different for each profession.
Low level traits should have been easier, and more about learning the game for unlocks.

pushing to level 36 made level 10-30 pretty boring.

the problems are numerous, if this was actually playtested, it would not have gone through most likely, but we know they couldnt playtest this really, hardcore playing would probably take you 1-2 weeks to level up to 80, and longer if you had to do these events, they would need to simulate people being in the world, events not being up etc.

I did a spreadsheet showing what level each unlock is, compared to when that tier is available. I would hope a visual would let the devs see what we are saying. Is it ok to post a link to google docs here with this? Or is there a way to get it to the devs that is better?

Devs know about this they just dont care

Keysha.2815:

I did a spreadsheet showing what level each unlock is, compared to when that tier is available. I would hope a visual would let the devs see what we are saying. Is it ok to post a link to google docs here with this? Or is there a way to get it to the devs that is better?

Outside links are tolerated as long as they do not lead to anything bad. The site just gives you a warning before you leave acknowledging that the link leads off-site.

phys.7689:

it wasnt thought out well is what it boils down to. Traits are a personal thing, so the unlocks should have, for most of them, been personal ( a few high end, or special new traits needing teams would be fine)
since this is something every new charachter would need to do, it should have been different for each profession.
Low level traits should have been easier, and more about learning the game for unlocks.

pushing to level 36 made level 10-30 pretty boring.

The reason it is so difficult now before lvl 80, before you at least got those passive traits at lower levels. This would let your character progress naturally thru the higher levels because you had a stat boost. (power, vitality, toughness, ect..)

The way it sits now is to hurry up and get to lvl 80, then start the game. Wonder if the population of EOTM has increased, sure seems like it!

Daggos Skelito.2910:

The reason it is so difficult now before lvl 80, before you at least got those passive traits at lower levels. This would let your character progress naturally thru the higher levels because you had a stat boost. (power, vitality, toughness, ect..)

Precisely the point. There really is no beginning the game now until you’re lvl 80. Beyond perhaps Personal Story missions in the meantime. But those generally skip a few levels at a time between missions. So it’s do a story, grind two levels, do your next story, etc. That’s not entertaining at all.

I guess you could at least sPvP if you wanted to. But I’d not recommend trying to WvW with no traits to get to 80. You’ll be eating dirt literally all the time.

Lheimroo.2947:

It is incomprehensible how Anet has said nothing – flat out zilch, nothing, about this yet. The dev post tracker is full of tech tickets resolutions, but .. lack of commentary on a seriously pressing issue, for literal months, over and above and past the time they once kidded to us that they were listening?

I am tired of this. Seriously freaking tired.

Agreed. How can you make such a big change with so little care?

Anyhow, the system fails because it does nothing but slow down progression, and that naturally is bad for people who’ve already done it a few times. It makes it more clear that your character is nothing until they hate 80.

If they really wanted to make leveling more engaging, they should have increased the difficulty of mid-level zones and drastically increased the difficulty of higher level zones, as well as boosting the rewards accordingly. This way, people that don’t want to care about leveling can just sandbag away in the faceroll easy low zones, when people that actually want a little challenge, can, you know, be actually forced to understand the character’s mechanics. I don’t really get how adding more restrictions and having less freedom to “play the way you want” makes content more meaningful. It just stratifies the game too much to what the creators want.

Right now it does nothing but make people do more easy content and actually pve in a lot of places is easier, making the gap between the open world and instanced content even bigger and thus becomes even more worthless as a learning tool, unless you want to learn to zerg I guess. Others just buy the way their past through it, rendering the system moot.

As played IMO they should auto unlock all current adept and master traits, possibly refund people that wasted if possible, and introduce more unlockable traits in those tiers. This allows the presence of unlockable content that becomes an option, but does not cripple the player should they choose to not partake in it or at most just suffer a mild inconvenience in buying it. Such a endeavor actually requires effort, of course so if they fear balance issues to not allow them in pvp possibly.

So my husband and I rolled new characters because he wanted to try a new profession, and I wanted to level with him and recapture the fun of it. We had 80s already so we had an instant-20 scroll thing, then a few tome of knowledge for a couple more freebie levels. Bought same level green gear, and set out.

The first thing I noticed about leveling with no traits at the point we were both used to getting them on low characters is how weak you feel. And yes, this is coming from someone with geared 80s, but I’m not comparing a downleveled state of ability, I’m comparing the old leveling process to the new one. I already had one of each profession, so I know what it was like to level them originally, without good gear, but with traits. Now I still don’t have good gear (blues/greens, no special runes/sigils) but no traits.

Ok, so we went off to try and unlock a few. At this point, the easiest are probably the eotm ones, because you can join a karma train and in maybe half an hour to an hour get those three. Obsidian sanctum isn’t too bad either (if you’re ok at jumping puzzles) since even on my server (Blackgate) people generally are in OS to gvg or get their box, they don’t really care about ganking someone else.

But the rest of the traits? I hope you have a small army at your beck and call. Or that you have ample time to sit around and wait for an event to kick off. We tried just getting some of the adept traits, since we’re in our 40s and have that tier opened. Impossible, even with two of us. WHY would adept trait line traits be for boss events in a level 50 zone? WHY?

I don’t want to spend skill points and in game money to buy them. Yeah, I have 80s, but I’m not rich. I’m not sitting on a thousand gold like some, where I can just throw money at it and buy all 13 traits for all 5 trees.

So, tl;dr, it’s not fun. When it’s supposed to be fun to level. You can leave it at an unlock system, but change the location to something more appropriate. You open up the adept tier at 30? So make the adept traits all unlock in a level 30-40 zone. I don’t mind petitioning the zone for help to kill a champ, at least with the megaserver it means there’s always someone else around. But why it’s 20 levels higher than it should be is just mindboggling. Unless the whole point was to expect people to craft/tome their way to 80, buy gear and THEN go back and grind out their traits. At which point, I wonder what you were thinking, because that’s even less fun.

Very disappointed.

xvalkyrie.6742:

So my husband and I rolled new characters because he wanted to try a new profession, and I wanted to level with him and recapture the fun of it. We had 80s already so we had an instant-20 scroll thing, then a few tome of knowledge for a couple more freebie levels. Bought same level green gear, and set out.

The first thing I noticed about leveling with no traits at the point we were both used to getting them on low characters is how weak you feel. And yes, this is coming from someone with geared 80s, but I’m not comparing a downleveled state of ability, I’m comparing the old leveling process to the new one. I already had one of each profession, so I know what it was like to level them originally, without good gear, but with traits. Now I still don’t have good gear (blues/greens, no special runes/sigils) but no traits.

Ok, so we went off to try and unlock a few. At this point, the easiest are probably the eotm ones, because you can join a karma train and in maybe half an hour to an hour get those three. Obsidian sanctum isn’t too bad either (if you’re ok at jumping puzzles) since even on my server (Blackgate) people generally are in OS to gvg or get their box, they don’t really care about ganking someone else.

But the rest of the traits? I hope you have a small army at your beck and call. Or that you have ample time to sit around and wait for an event to kick off. We tried just getting some of the adept traits, since we’re in our 40s and have that tier opened. Impossible, even with two of us. WHY would adept trait line traits be for boss events in a level 50 zone? WHY?

I don’t want to spend skill points and in game money to buy them. Yeah, I have 80s, but I’m not rich. I’m not sitting on a thousand gold like some, where I can just throw money at it and buy all 13 traits for all 5 trees.

So, tl;dr, it’s not fun. When it’s supposed to be fun to level. You can leave it at an unlock system, but change the location to something more appropriate. You open up the adept tier at 30? So make the adept traits all unlock in a level 30-40 zone. I don’t mind petitioning the zone for help to kill a champ, at least with the megaserver it means there’s always someone else around. But why it’s 20 levels higher than it should be is just mindboggling. Unless the whole point was to expect people to craft/tome their way to 80, buy gear and THEN go back and grind out their traits. At which point, I wonder what you were thinking, because that’s even less fun.

Very disappointed.

Exactly what I was saying, and odd how many pages on a thread that Anet asked for feedback and got tons all basically saying the same, yet nada from them……

I have this sinking feeling that even ‘if’ the dev’s feel the new trait acquisition is not working as intended, the best we can hope for are some tweaks here and there.

It reminds me of another issue that had multiple pages of valid arguments against it and the problem went away. It wasn’t fixed or made easier it was simply accepted over time.
And like that other ‘thing’, this too shall pass. New people that come to the game, never knowing what it was like before, won’t see a problem. They may feel a little bored or even upset when they aren’t accepted in dungeons. Yet those that truly oppose this will either accept it and move forward, or move on.

Personally I wish they had left it alone and only added new traits to each tier that we could hunt. I wish that the requirements were much less specific and level appropriate.
At this stage there would be a lot of players upset about wasting gold and skill points if it was reverted. I don’t expect Anet to reverse anything but I do hope they will make it a lot more friendly to alts, new players, and all those that wish this had never happened.

Yea, I think this will become accepted over time out of necessity, and I may one day get more characters but considering I have to get gems for a new slot at this point, it’s just discouraging though I will finish my thief (5th slot).

It could definitely be worse but I just feel the changes did make the game first, and the silence on the issue along with other things may not cause the game to collapse and we’ll live with it, but it does cause the game to sink lower, and enough of this will cause the game to sink into mediocrity, it’s just that it’s been accepted and a lot of people in this thread wouldn’t accept what they perceive as mediocre.

The game is still fine though, but I do feel it’s squandered so much potential by aggressively imposing their own ideas with disregard to what their player base thinks. Sure, if one doesn’t like it, leave, right? Sure, but I find the situation shouldn’t have been reached in the first place.

Personally, I’m at a crossroads here. The April patch has overall dealt a huge blow to my confidence in the game. Before that, I was pretty optimistic and always encouraged people to play the game while overlooking its flaws, but honestly, it’s getting harder and harder to encourage people . I talk about the cool stuff like wvw special events, and world bosses and skins but people just get bored because they have to get to 80 via content that can be seen as patronizing to people who’ve played a lot.

The one question was “well, why do I have to put all this effort into all this busy work when they could fire up another game that doesn’t gate them like that?” And this is with the previous system which I thought was dull but a necessary evil, though when I look at the new system and its costs that are unreasonable for new players, I can no longer recommend the game to people as much.

Honestly, if it weren’t for community and guild interaction, I would have quit the game a while back. Of course, Anet doesn’t care about that, as proven by their megaservers, so it is distressing that they’re willing to casually toss one of the few reasons for me to play the game in trash. That’s left me retreated to wvw and the occasional guild/server boss raid. And wvw itself is in a terrible shape, stupid, and stagnant as all crap but it still remains the only content that I can still enjoy. Which doesn’t really speak well of what I think elsewhere right?

Anyhow, i’d love to support the game and spend a few bucks in gems if they make a deserving game. Our money is for the taking for years to come. Just be careful and less stubborn it’ll happen.

Hi. Player interested in trying this title again.

What’s up with the traits? They got smaller but harder to get a hold of? Like you have to complete a certain named dungeon or take named point in WvW?

Can someone catch me up speed?

No longer unlocked auto.

Cant get any till lvl 30 +

Get one trait point every 6 lvls, not 30 anymore, now 14 ( I think) 1 every 6 until lvl 66 then 2 every 6 .

Have to unlock them all thru PvE or WvW content or pay with Skill Points and money.

Have to go to Higher lvl areas to unlock even lvl 30 traits ( lvl 50 some of them)

Or need group to unlock ( some locked behind world boss / champs)

Kohlteth.3715:

xvalkyrie.6742:

So my husband and I rolled new characters because he wanted to try a new profession, and I wanted to level with him and recapture the fun of it. We had 80s already so we had an instant-20 scroll thing, then a few tome of knowledge for a couple more freebie levels. Bought same level green gear, and set out.

The first thing I noticed about leveling with no traits at the point we were both used to getting them on low characters is how weak you feel. And yes, this is coming from someone with geared 80s, but I’m not comparing a downleveled state of ability, I’m comparing the old leveling process to the new one. I already had one of each profession, so I know what it was like to level them originally, without good gear, but with traits. Now I still don’t have good gear (blues/greens, no special runes/sigils) but no traits.

Ok, so we went off to try and unlock a few. At this point, the easiest are probably the eotm ones, because you can join a karma train and in maybe half an hour to an hour get those three. Obsidian sanctum isn’t too bad either (if you’re ok at jumping puzzles) since even on my server (Blackgate) people generally are in OS to gvg or get their box, they don’t really care about ganking someone else.

But the rest of the traits? I hope you have a small army at your beck and call. Or that you have ample time to sit around and wait for an event to kick off. We tried just getting some of the adept traits, since we’re in our 40s and have that tier opened. Impossible, even with two of us. WHY would adept trait line traits be for boss events in a level 50 zone? WHY?

I don’t want to spend skill points and in game money to buy them. Yeah, I have 80s, but I’m not rich. I’m not sitting on a thousand gold like some, where I can just throw money at it and buy all 13 traits for all 5 trees.

So, tl;dr, it’s not fun. When it’s supposed to be fun to level. You can leave it at an unlock system, but change the location to something more appropriate. You open up the adept tier at 30? So make the adept traits all unlock in a level 30-40 zone. I don’t mind petitioning the zone for help to kill a champ, at least with the megaserver it means there’s always someone else around. But why it’s 20 levels higher than it should be is just mindboggling. Unless the whole point was to expect people to craft/tome their way to 80, buy gear and THEN go back and grind out their traits. At which point, I wonder what you were thinking, because that’s even less fun.

Very disappointed.

Exactly what I was saying, and odd how many pages on a thread that Anet asked for feedback and got tons all basically saying the same, yet nada from them……

Don’t know if you can say nada, since they did make major changes to some of the trait unlocks based on feedback. Like all the mid level vanquishes they used to have. And for all anyone knows, they’re working on more changes.

I was referring to this thread that they created for feedback on the new system, and then nothing back from them, not a word in 30 pages.

Merlin.4058:

Hi. Player interested in trying this title again.

What’s up with the traits? They got smaller but harder to get a hold of? Like you have to complete a certain named dungeon or take named point in WvW?

Can someone catch me up speed?

If you’re playing on a character that was created before April 15th of this year, the traits are automatically unlocked at the appropriate levels, except for one of the grandmaster traits in each line. Each of the 14 points counts as five from the old system, and you get your first trait point at level 30.

If you are on a new character, the major traits that you slot will all have to be unlocked. You can use gold and skillpoints (approximately 40g and 360 skillpoints if you want all of them) to unlock the traits you want, or you can do a trait task to unlock a specific trait. The wiki has a full list of all the tasks.

Traits used to cost about 4g to unlock all of them. But, hey, now you can change up your traits anywhere, so… there’s that.

Reason for edit: A wild kitten appeared!

Kohlteth.3715:

I was referring to this thread that they created for feedback on the new system, and then nothing back from them, not a word in 30 pages.

So you’re saying that changing stuff isn’t as good as them saying something in this thread.

Anet put in an update and asked for comments. They changed what they did based on comments. You come in and say they did nada.

What they didn’t do was type something on a forum. What they did do was change something people asked to be changed. I’m convinced more changes are coming but that they’ll take time.

Why not say something? Possibly because they’re trying a variety of things and don’t want to talk about stuff they can’t do.

ANet employees haven’t unlocked the Trait Points to the forums, so cannot read your concerns …

Please do not create duplicate posts, as it makes it more difficult for us to gather your feedback in a timely and organized manner. Thank you for your understanding.

I made the mistake somehow of missing this thread and thankfully was pointed here but while knowing you guys have alot going on, season 2 starting, a bunch of changes in the works, I have to ask myself as a returning player, seeing this thread 2 months old and 30 pages deep, what size sample of feedback you need before realizing the players believe there is an issue.

I’m a returning player, that had thought long ago about rerolling (having not settled on any one thing playing through season 1 on multiple toons and enjoying them) that came back without an 80, yet I’ve been playing since day 1 headstart. Not an issue. I knew traits were unlocked now at 30, 60, and 80 from skimming the patch notes and had apparently missed the whole part about the trait books and having to unlock them now.

No big deal, my bad. I’ll work around it, but then as I thought about it, and looked up the requirements for these things, I started thinking to myself holy kitten, that gold REALLY adds up, as well as all of the skillpoints necessary to unlock them, I’m going to have to cherry pick my way through and pray I can get some of these world quests done. I love doing some wvw on the side and pve so no big deal having to play the game, except for the actual tasks themselves.

Sign me up for wishing they were more generic. I remember fondly elite hunting in Guild Wars 1 and see this is as a pretty kitten-poor nod to that.

Personally, I agree with alot of the others that this really kills the ‘play it your way’ mentality that you guys were going for. Love the revamps of the trees, love the concept of the new unlocking tiers at certain levels, that’s fine, love the free talent respecs (thank you, great idea) and other things, hate the skill point thing. It wouldn’t be so bad if A) it didn’t cost a fortune and B.) the actual unlocking didn’t require small armies and vast amounts of luck to get groups for at the best of times.

I’ll get through it of course, but only because I’m a returning player with some time and some capital saved up from when I played the TP before I left. That said, its a little daunting if I can’t get world unlocks to think about having to spend money I could have geared myself out with and built some crafting on along the way to fill in gaps for skills instead.

[bold]In any case, in the feedback and suggestion category. I would:[/bold]

Leave the tier unlocks at the levels they are, leave the new point allocation system (much better and less hassle) and take acquiring traits back to how you did them before, give trait points at certain levels and just let us put them where we want. That’s freedom. It is going to be far more frustrating for the new player or the person leveling an alt that is cherry picking their abilities because of being unable to get certain skills to be locked out of missing that ‘one’ that they feel they need to level properly along the way because they just can’t get it.

Vayne.8563:

Kohlteth.3715:

I was referring to this thread that they created for feedback on the new system, and then nothing back from them, not a word in 30 pages.

So you’re saying that changing stuff isn’t as good as them saying something in this thread.

Anet put in an update and asked for comments. They changed what they did based on comments. You come in and say they did nada.

What they didn’t do was type something on a forum. What they did do was change something people asked to be changed. I’m convinced more changes are coming but that they’ll take time.

Why not say something? Possibly because they’re trying a variety of things and don’t want to talk about stuff they can’t do.

Obviously they do not have the QA for proper testing so they should run these things by the community for feedback on any possible outcomes they haven’t thought of. So they should say something. Dropping blind and untested changes over and over is a recipe for failure