Guild Wars 2

How often can you trigger guild bounties once it is researched?

Martin The Brave.8731:

Genewen.2415:

Martin The Brave.8731:

How do you intend to do this content with only with a small group? This is going to be the content which will indeed fill the role of Guild “Raids” and as such is content oriented toward Guild’s which can muster both Skill and Numbers. I am not not an anonymous chunk in my Guild, I personally know most of the active individuals in the Guild. And If I dont know them, I guess ill just have to meet a new friend wont I?

The part about contet scaling slipped your mind, didn’t it?
Also, you might check up on what “knowing” another person or being a “friend” is, because I think your definition of it might be a wee bit messed up.

And you think content worthy of the title “Guild Missions” will scale well with a small group? If this content as it is indeed portrayed to be it would seem that it much harder than any dynamic encounter in the game. Definition(s) Friends:
1. one attached to another by affection or esteem, 2. one that is not hostile. Exactly how does my understanding of what a “Friend” messed up?

Of course it should scale .. its part and parcel for many MMO’s to use difficulty scaling based on player levels or group numbers… the flipside is the rewards get scaled accordingly so that balance is maintained … look at how MMO’s that have a guild ranking system do it.. DDO utilises a server ranking system and dungeon scaling.. would it of been that difficult to implement such a system so as to allow all guilds access to the content…. it still means they have to work that much more to get the same rewards but its not forcing players to herd into super guilds in order to run the content and achieve the same goals… cmon its not exactly a new concept or rocket science!
Gating content this way is just not fun or engaging and like another poster has said… had ANET said they want the game to feel like an extension of your day job… I and all my guild would never of come to try the game out,
Each of us has invested 1000+ hrs into the game to date but at least now ANET have made our decision as to whether GW2 is worthwhile use of our time going forward much simpler.

Heijincks.9267:

Rifter.6591:

Soulstar.7812:

My small guild wants to remain small, we all live in the same town in RL.
Now we have to let in potential childish trolls and shift them all to see who remains active or who behaves?

I stop caring about the updates… my guild is already suggesting to switching games but I don’t know how I feel about it.

Im in the same boat, small guild of RL friends. Never going to be able to get the guild missions.

Anet OUTRIGHT LIED with the pre patch Q&A when answering the question about small guilds can still do missions just pull players from the map? seriously? how dense/stupid kitten do you have to be to think thats a viable option when only guild members get the good rewards(that get them acended items) and any pugs would get what, a few coppers/silver?

The idea that pugs will help your guild missionsis BEYOND LAUGHABLE and you still need a unobtainable amount of influence to unlock them in the first place making it irrelevent.

So…

Thanks for turning this into a elite vs poor guild game with even more of a vertical gear grind which goes against everything the manifesto said.

Thanks for making it IMPOSSIBLE to recruit new members even if we wanted to because now no one will join a guild unless you have the missions unlocked.

Thanks for lieing about it in the pre patch Q&A

All this is going to do is drive players away from this game.

If you want the content so soon, use an alt, represent a guild which has it unlocked, and have fun with it. Get your friends to join in as well. Doesn’t break the integrity of your own guild which you continue to progress towards the needed influence, and you get to do the stuff early. When you do have it unlocked for your own guild, then you can recruit people when you want to.

I see nothing impossible here like you state.

Sounds like a win-win situation to me.

And then people are going to wonder what the point is to even continue those smaller guilds, which leaves us in the dark.

Some people don’t want to join big guilds, and some people would like to work on their own guild if the goals set were only reachable.

Awwww sad times.

My girlfriend and I sat down last night, and slurped our chicken noodle soup in anticipation for the new guild missions to load.

Sadly, we found out the new content won’t be available to us due to the costs involved. For our small guild made up of working adults, we simply don’t have the time to gain that much influence. We estimated it would take us months to even unlock the missions, and so we’ve sadly decided to pass on this content.

Oh well…

Heijincks.9267:

Rifter.6591:

Soulstar.7812:

My small guild wants to remain small, we all live in the same town in RL.
Now we have to let in potential childish trolls and shift them all to see who remains active or who behaves?

I stop caring about the updates… my guild is already suggesting to switching games but I don’t know how I feel about it.

Im in the same boat, small guild of RL friends. Never going to be able to get the guild missions.

Anet OUTRIGHT LIED with the pre patch Q&A when answering the question about small guilds can still do missions just pull players from the map? seriously? how dense/stupid kitten do you have to be to think thats a viable option when only guild members get the good rewards(that get them acended items) and any pugs would get what, a few coppers/silver?

The idea that pugs will help your guild missionsis BEYOND LAUGHABLE and you still need a unobtainable amount of influence to unlock them in the first place making it irrelevent.

So…

Thanks for turning this into a elite vs poor guild game with even more of a vertical gear grind which goes against everything the manifesto said.

Thanks for making it IMPOSSIBLE to recruit new members even if we wanted to because now no one will join a guild unless you have the missions unlocked.

Thanks for lieing about it in the pre patch Q&A

All this is going to do is drive players away from this game.

If you want the content so soon, use an alt, represent a guild which has it unlocked, and have fun with it. Get your friends to join in as well. Doesn’t break the integrity of your own guild which you continue to progress towards the needed influence, and you get to do the stuff early. When you do have it unlocked for your own guild, then you can recruit people when you want to.

I see nothing impossible here like you state.

Sounds like a win-win situation to me.

Yeah other than the fact that most guild will kick you if you dont represent them while you are online 100% of the time, so no you really cant be in two guilds its either disband the small guild of RL friends and join a huge guild or miss out on guild missions.

guys, you can be in more than 1 guild. So just search for a big guild on your server and join it. This way you can do the guild missions.
It’s everywhere said, that precursors drop from these missions. But is the chance like dragon chests? (almost never) or will it be something like 5%.

ya I don’t see the big deal of joining large guild. Just turn off chat and buy a vent channel or something.

My guild chat is turned off 99% of the time. The people I regularly play with isn’t even on the same server.

And I’m sure someone said it before. “many” guilds dont’ require you to represent 100% of the time.

Put into the time to find a guild that dont’ require you to represent 100% of the time. Not that hard.

Heijincks.9267:

1. What is the point? Why did you start a small guild in the first place? That’s the reason.

2. Saying you don’t want to join big guilds to do a specific something is a lot like saying you want HoTW armor but don’t want to do HoTW. Of course, I may be a bit too cynical there, but that’s what it sounds like.

What about not having to join a zerg guild to get ascended earrings in a mostly reasonable time and cost?

Heijincks.9267:

Rifter.6591:

Heijincks.9267:

Rifter.6591:

Soulstar.7812:

My small guild wants to remain small, we all live in the same town in RL.
Now we have to let in potential childish trolls and shift them all to see who remains active or who behaves?

I stop caring about the updates… my guild is already suggesting to switching games but I don’t know how I feel about it.

Im in the same boat, small guild of RL friends. Never going to be able to get the guild missions.

Anet OUTRIGHT LIED with the pre patch Q&A when answering the question about small guilds can still do missions just pull players from the map? seriously? how dense/stupid kitten do you have to be to think thats a viable option when only guild members get the good rewards(that get them acended items) and any pugs would get what, a few coppers/silver?

The idea that pugs will help your guild missionsis BEYOND LAUGHABLE and you still need a unobtainable amount of influence to unlock them in the first place making it irrelevent.

So…

Thanks for turning this into a elite vs poor guild game with even more of a vertical gear grind which goes against everything the manifesto said.

Thanks for making it IMPOSSIBLE to recruit new members even if we wanted to because now no one will join a guild unless you have the missions unlocked.

Thanks for lieing about it in the pre patch Q&A

All this is going to do is drive players away from this game.

If you want the content so soon, use an alt, represent a guild which has it unlocked, and have fun with it. Get your friends to join in as well. Doesn’t break the integrity of your own guild which you continue to progress towards the needed influence, and you get to do the stuff early. When you do have it unlocked for your own guild, then you can recruit people when you want to.

I see nothing impossible here like you state.

Sounds like a win-win situation to me.

Yeah other than the fact that most guild will kick you if you dont represent them while you are online 100% of the time, so no you really cant be in two guilds its either disband the small guild of RL friends and join a huge guild or miss out on guild missions.

Then select your guilds. Not all guilds require 100% representation. There are plenty to choose from.

Not so easy, 2 friends in my small guild tried this as they like to run dungeons so were looking for a large guild to run dungeons with. They found one not a big deal didnt take long, they would represent the other guild while running dungeons and would represent our small guild when doing PvE with us. They both got kicked for not representing after less than a few weeks even though they both spent 1-2 hours a night dungeon running and representing them(apparantly the 12 hours a day on saturdays they spent on the weekend with us doing PvE and representing us was unacceptable).

And i dont blame the other guild at all for kicking them the fact of the matter is the way the guild system is set up is broken. They were taking up slots that could have been used by representing members so i dont blame other guild at all. You should be able to represent 2 guilds at a time but you cant.

And its worse now with the guild missions people will be easy to come by for the large guilds giving them even more reason to kick non-representing members.

laokoko.7403:

I honestly dont’ see the big deal of joining a large guild.

And hey, I never have guild chat turned on unless I do guild event so when people are talking about all the guild drama, or whatever whatever, I don’t even know what people are talking about.

Besides your small guild of 7 or whatever people can join multiple guild. Just join a large guild for the event and rest of the time you can be in your tiny society of whatever chatting and do whatever thing you want.

I’m in a tiny society too. I play with the same 5 people every day and we are all in differnet guild.

You know what you guys should do? buy a vent channel. You can chat any time you guys want in your tiny society.

Dooh small guilds predominantly like to focus on achieving goals for their own group not be herded into larger guilds in order to just be able to the run content and stockpile points, gold and gear etc or others, many of whom rarely log on in such guilds and are faceless and voiceless…. otherwise what was the reasoning to allow more than 1 guild in the game to start with, why not just say “click here to join the GW2 Guild, called Destiny’s Edge” – - 1 guild, millions of members, 1 Guild emblem/ banner, PvP will be just become 1v1, WvW will become 1 guild vs another 1 guild from A N other server… you think that’s a healthy recipe for an MMO.. I will grant you it will likely still fit ANETS mandate to be differnet though I guess.

I think people saying “just join a larger guild” are still not getting it. They must already be in a large guild or just completely blind to the situation.

There has already been a great analysis of this new content to which none of the join-large-guild-sayers have responded to.

My thoughts on the matter is that I think Guild Missions should have had their own guild upgrade category with the first tiers easily unlockable while the higher tiers needing a lot more – with possibly needing unlocks in other guild upgrade categories. This would allow low tiers to be accessible for all while the higher tiers would be more easily accessible for larger guilds. Whether or not your guild is able to do the content isn’t an issue since you can do it with other guilds (even if it really defeats the purpose of calling it a guild mission). I understand ANet wanting to expand their existing guild upgrade categories further but in my bones I feel this was the wrong road to take with Guild Missions.

Start a new community project.

Get together with a few small guilds and together, form an “alliance” guild, solely for doing guild missions. If you have 10 guilds of 10 people, that is one larger guild of 100 people for example. Once in a while, every member donates influence using a book, but other than that, every member is only in his/her small guild. Once you all get enough influence in the alliance guild, unlock the guild missions and do them together with the other small guilds that contributed.

Sure, it may take a little bit more time than a large guild, but you’ll get it done faster than on your own. And you may meet some new people.

come one people, show a little creativity. It’s not impossible for small guilds.

Bloodstealer.5978:

laokoko.7403:

I honestly dont’ see the big deal of joining a large guild.

And hey, I never have guild chat turned on unless I do guild event so when people are talking about all the guild drama, or whatever whatever, I don’t even know what people are talking about.

Besides your small guild of 7 or whatever people can join multiple guild. Just join a large guild for the event and rest of the time you can be in your tiny society of whatever chatting and do whatever thing you want.

I’m in a tiny society too. I play with the same 5 people every day and we are all in differnet guild.

You know what you guys should do? buy a vent channel. You can chat any time you guys want in your tiny society.

Dooh small guilds predominantly like to focus on achieving goals for their own group not be herded into larger guilds in order to just be able to the run content and stockpile points, gold and gear etc or others, many of whom rarely log on in such guilds and are faceless and voiceless…. otherwise what was the reasoning to allow more than 1 guild in the game to start with, why not just say “click here to join the GW2 Guild, called Destiny’s Edge” – - 1 guild, millions of members, 1 Guild emblem/ banner, PvP will be just become 1v1, WvW will become 1 guild vs another 1 guild from A N other server… you think that’s a healthy recipe for an MMO.. I will grant you it will likely still fit ANETS mandate to be differnet though I guess.

You dont’ want to get hand out by large guild? farm 2 hours. FARM 2 hours. That’s all you need to do.

Everyone only need to farm 2 hours. Buy influence and be done with that. but no… you guys keep complaining.

Seriously for once work for it. Form a nation. Get 10 small guild like yours and form a nation. Everyone contribute 1 gold and be done with that. You guys can be in your own little guild and only represent the nation when doing guild event. And there you worked for it.

There’s like a trillion work around. You said you want to work for it but apparently nop, you don’t.

And quite honestly I just think you guys who are complaining most likely guild leader are just affriad your guildmates might join a large guild and actually like it and never come back. I come from another game and like I said before, everyone want to be guild leader but no one want to work for it.

Tosha Daydreamer.9251:

Start a new community project.

Get together with a few small guilds and together, form an “alliance” guild, solely for doing guild missions. If you have 10 guilds of 10 people, that is one larger guild of 100 people for example. Once in a while, every member donates influence using a book, but other than that, every member is only in his/her small guild. Once you all get enough influence in the alliance guild, unlock the guild missions and do them together with the other small guilds that contributed.

Sure, it may take a little bit more time than a large guild, but you’ll get it done faster than on your own. And you may meet some new people.

come one people, show a little creativity. It’s not impossible for small guilds.

We are not getting paid to show creativity, they are !
If they base the influence on percentage of members then the problem is solved and this is even without using my wand of creativity.

I logged in here to reply to a perfectly legit thread being critical of what is going on in the game with regards to small guilds and the high cost — only to find it had been locked… since there’s no other option I suppose I’ll throw in my two cents here.

Small guilds have voiced their concerns before numerous times to the developers here and in other places… and each time there seems to be little effort to at the very least, understand where we’re coming from. Your consistant motto has been that content is available for all and is non-restrictive to those large and small… in the way that guild missions and their influence cost has been implimented this is now not the case. My small international guild, and even the NA branch of it will have no opportunities to advance or participate in these activities because of the restrictive cost. I know medium sized guilds in a relative same boat, and even smaller guilds than ours — haven’t a chance in hell now. International guilds in particular suffer from this problem, because they all have members that more or less, are in different timezones and are not always able to be on at the same time. We’ve worked hard since beta with normal gameplay and a little WvW to earn enough influence to finally finish the last tier for just our bank… you can do the math on how many months that took us. Meanwhile larger guilds got there quite a while ago, with ease.
We’ve all but begged, pleaded, and screamed at you to bring back the alliance mechanic to make the burden you’ve placed on us easier, to ease the gaping holes in the lack of communication, to restore the bonds of alliance friendships we once had worked hard to maintain while wanting to keep our own identities. Each time that door has been closed in our faces.

Of course we all know the easiest way to earn enough influence is to buy it with gold. Throw down 100G and you’ve probably got enough to buy your way to whatever you want… provided you have grinded enough to have that much money. If you haven’t got gold you can buy it with gems and your real life cash and convert it back. Which of course is what this all is about isn’t it?

I had hopes that this content would actually be something my guild could plan to do together… instead we’ve reached an impasse. We will not grind content for the sake of grinding and chasing the carrot on a stick in hopes we can one day do something worthwhile together. We will not merge or give up our standards nor will we invite just anyone in to pad numbers for the sake of earning influence.

When one is too small you can’t do a dungeon.
When one is too big you can’t do a dungeon without picking and choosing which friends to take with you.
When one is too small you really can’t do guild mission content because of the cost and some of the requirements are too great.
When one is big you’ll have no problem with that.
Who will want to join a small guild when a big guild offers a chance at content. Unfortunately the average player who just want rewards without friendships and a long slow slog of grinding influence will certainly not be choosing a small guild as their home. Big guilds suddenly became 100% more appealing.

See the issue here yet?

Leah’s wiki post about ‘’super small’’ guilds had previously given some hope… and this has fallen by the wayside now it seems.
By the way, for our part we didn’t even care about the rewards this new mechanic offered.. that is meaningless. We just actually were hopeful for content we could finally do together. That won’t be happening now.

Nice post, Aranel. I agree with it, for the record, incase anyone who makes decisions at ArenaNet is actually reading this, and is actually interested, which by now, I really doubt.

Heijincks.9267:

Rifter.6591:

Heijincks.9267:

Rifter.6591:

Heijincks.9267:

Rifter.6591:

Soulstar.7812:

My small guild wants to remain small, we all live in the same town in RL.
Now we have to let in potential childish trolls and shift them all to see who remains active or who behaves?

I stop caring about the updates… my guild is already suggesting to switching games but I don’t know how I feel about it.

Im in the same boat, small guild of RL friends. Never going to be able to get the guild missions.

Anet OUTRIGHT LIED with the pre patch Q&A when answering the question about small guilds can still do missions just pull players from the map? seriously? how dense/stupid kitten do you have to be to think thats a viable option when only guild members get the good rewards(that get them acended items) and any pugs would get what, a few coppers/silver?

The idea that pugs will help your guild missionsis BEYOND LAUGHABLE and you still need a unobtainable amount of influence to unlock them in the first place making it irrelevent.

So…

Thanks for turning this into a elite vs poor guild game with even more of a vertical gear grind which goes against everything the manifesto said.

Thanks for making it IMPOSSIBLE to recruit new members even if we wanted to because now no one will join a guild unless you have the missions unlocked.

Thanks for lieing about it in the pre patch Q&A

All this is going to do is drive players away from this game.

If you want the content so soon, use an alt, represent a guild which has it unlocked, and have fun with it. Get your friends to join in as well. Doesn’t break the integrity of your own guild which you continue to progress towards the needed influence, and you get to do the stuff early. When you do have it unlocked for your own guild, then you can recruit people when you want to.

I see nothing impossible here like you state.

Sounds like a win-win situation to me.

Yeah other than the fact that most guild will kick you if you dont represent them while you are online 100% of the time, so no you really cant be in two guilds its either disband the small guild of RL friends and join a huge guild or miss out on guild missions.

Then select your guilds. Not all guilds require 100% representation. There are plenty to choose from.

Not so easy, 2 friends in my small guild tried this as they like to run dungeons so were looking for a large guild to run dungeons with. They found one not a big deal didnt take long, they would represent the other guild while running dungeons and would represent our small guild when doing PvE with us. They both got kicked for not representing after less than a few weeks even though they both spent 1-2 hours a night dungeon running and representing them(apparantly the 12 hours a day on saturdays they spent on the weekend with us doing PvE and representing us was unacceptable).

And i dont blame the other guild at all for kicking them the fact of the matter is the way the guild system is set up is broken. They were taking up slots that could have been used by representing members so i dont blame other guild at all. You should be able to represent 2 guilds at a time but you cant.

And its worse now with the guild missions people will be easy to come by for the large guilds giving them even more reason to kick non-representing members.

Then this really falls onto what you want more between the content itself and the reward. You could temporarily put your small guild on a haitus, then come back to it once you tire of the guild mission content.

If not, then you can get the content yourself. Getting the influence really isn’t that hard. The exchange rate is 20c/influence point. I’d say starting with no money, it’d take less than a week of casual playing (as long as you know what you’re doing) to pool together the money needed.

I wonder how many others who are complaining know about this.

Perhaps, i herd they nerfed orr pretty good so im unsure if farming will yield as good of results as pre patch but ill find out soon enough when i get off work.

A very heartfelt Thank You to Martipzieu-KyA for succinctly and rationally addressing our concerns regarding the inequalities of the implementation of this additional content.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/New-guild-missions-opinions-concerns/page/14#post1522077

Please take the time to read it through. TL/DR does not apply.

Only input i can give is that as a member of a small guild (10 people) that maybe play 3 nights a week (we are grown ups with jobs) the guild missions wont ever be a part of the content we will be able to play with in the next year or so.

The requirements to get access is just absurd.

So i basically you built a feature for large guilds or hardcore (time wise) gamers.

Martin Kerstein.3071:

As this has probably been buried deep by know, I would like to quote Izzy again. I put aspects of his post that touch on the actual discussion in bold:

Isaiah Cartwright.8569:

I know there have been some concerns about Guild Bounties being in the Art of War line. Our goal with this system is to give guilds activities and long-term progression that they can accomplish by working together as a guild. These missions are meant to be difficult and challenging to not only unlock, but to accomplish.

We would also like to make every guild upgrade line valuable to every guild. Currently, Art of War is very focused on PvP and WvW, but our plan is to continue to add more guild upgrades in the Art of War line to accomplish this. These Guild Missions are the first step. Along with this system, we also added a number of new guild upgrades that guilds can earn.

In the end, our goal for all of this content is to give guilds new goals and challenges to accomplished once they have researched deeply into each line, as well as require guilds to have researched multiple lines to unlock some upgrades. We expect guild members to have to work together as a guild to earn the influence needed to unlock these new missions, as well as overcome the challenge of the missions themselves.

In the future, we plan to continue to add more guild upgrades, as well as continue to add challenging guild missions, as we don’t want guilds to run out of goals and accomplishments they can achieve.

~Izzy @-’—-

Are we playing the same game? Seems like you missed the point by about…well..as far as it can be missed.

Maybe have some third party read these forums and give you some highlights on what people are saying here. Because you clearly don’t know.

Edit: do what the poster above me suggested and read all of the post by Martipzieu-KyA. With an open mind to constructive criticism. Maybe hire this guy.

in most cases I defended A.Net’s choices , but I can’t do the same in this case: Guild Missions current state is the worst scenario possible, where numbers are rewarded over quality.
Why in the world Influence cost/gain isn’t scaled on the number of members?
With the actual system and the lack of an Alliance mechanic, you are just favouring elitism through sheer numbers which is a really bad bad bad BAD move especially for someone who claim to care about quality.
My communication skills aren’t enough to express how much I am disappointed by this trend.

While I think it is important that prominent guilds should have their presence felt by their server community, I am disappointed that the reward system does not reflect a more social environment. All a strong guild really needed is a permanent place to show for themselves, and the game world could even change slightly (within defined boundaries of course) to reflect their influence—a symbol of permanence, if you will, and also a sign of dedication to the server/game, that is right where all the public’s eyes are, near hubs, say, like southsun cove.

I’m really just trying to say guild halls without directly saying it here, because I think the equivalent of guild halls is a possibility, if guild halls are impossible. Because this is what drives the buzz. The island of the guilds can be a social hub, where guilds can interact with the public or with each other (say meetings for WvW, among other things, or a launch pad/meeting point for guild events. Better, with convenient services that makes those activities easier, like a board that shows the current WvW maps, and a bulletin that shows all guild events in the next 24 hours (this means guild events need to be activated 24hrs ahead of time, obviously)).

Have all the exciting planning and discussion shown to the public, non-guilded new players and they can get involved right away. This is what piques curiosity. The buzz generated will be more organic than the ones generated by artificial, ego-centric reinforcements. You’ll have people chat because the topic is interesting, not because it gives them their commendation they needed to farm. If all these is the ultimate reward (with an upkeep maintainence cost, likely) for guild events, we can see guilds clamoring for it, and without others feeling left out—glory and fame was never a goal for small guilds, but it is the best reward for the most social guilds.

The current system as is don’t drive rapport, rapport cannot be manufactured this way. Either people care or they don’t. The ascended gears on the rewards list is building resentment in the community already. I suppose having a short cut to ascended accessories will still make a more compelling advertisement than “Join our guild we have magic find 24/7”. However, the problem with people not being loyal to such guilds is not fixed. It’s simply pushed around. So now guilds are magic find dispensers, but also guild commendation dispensers.

Having more activities to do together is of course nice. Being rewarded for said activities is only reasonable, but stat boosting equipment is just missing the mark. The people who are chasing after the stat numbers are elitists, they are not community players. They want their 6-minute CoF1 runs. They are not going to waste time in LA discussing the current sPvP tournaments, or gossiping about events in WvW.

One could argue that since observer modes are not yet in and currently WvW match ups are too stale and shallow to be worth afternoon banter, that the current system can be a patch work fix. Let me ask you this question. Do you really believe that making GW2 end-game == equipment grind will give you a strong community like those other MMORPGs that lasted a decade plus?

No. It won’t. The people who are most interested in seeing a stronger server identity, and having a reason to login other than grinding for this or that, are staying away from guild missions. With this patch, you are definitely creating some community, but it isn’t one that talks to each other. It’s one that ask people to link equipments and either bail/kick before starting speedruns.

Heijincks.9267:

Nurse.1085:

Distaste.4801:

The only people being handed anything on a silver platter are the big guilds, IE YOU. The small guilds have to work far harder to gain influence for upgrades. What should have been done is influence costs scaling based on the number of players in the guild. That way the big and small guilds would have to put in the same amount of effort.

BAM!11!!1!!!
That’s the sound the Hammer made when you hit the nail on the head.

On that note, I’m in 2 Guilds. A small 10 man Guild and a Guild with 60+ players on. The 10 man has about 5k influence after saving (for the past few days), the 60+ player guild has OVER 40K.

It’s obviously more efficient to zerg in every aspect of this game. Now guilds.

I’ll play Devil’s Advocate.

Why should big guilds compromise for small guilds? People who form bigger guilds have put more effort into making their guilds. Why should their reward be the same as someone who poured less effort into their guild?

If you want to make things “fair”, then the cumulative work for both sized guilds should be the same. Otherwise, it just sounds like small guilds just want to be entitled to everything.

Also, you are able to represent more than one guild at once. Thus I don’t see small guilds “dying” because of this. If you have a small guild with your friends, should they leave your guild for the sake of the game, they aren’t really friends to begin with.

First of all, it should never be a question of compromise: good design should not create additional friction in the community at all.

You are saying bigger guilds put more effort into developing themselves, I beg to differ: bigger guilds generate influence much fater without any additional effort by theuir players.

You are not able to represent more than one guild at once, either!
You can only represent – thus earn influence – for one guild at a time.
Many bigger guild, especially the more serious ones (and especially now) require their members to represent at all times. The more influence is required by a guild (for bonuses and now for missions), the more restrictive they are about that “Represent us” business.
So yes, the changes are very damaging for small guilds.

The problem we would have as a guild of 10-25 people online, was that we had zero reason to meet up for content outside of WvW events. Forming a dungeon group always meant someone was left out. I see dungeons and Fractals as small guild content which we can’t do together unless they upped the amount of players allowed in. Guild Missions fills a gap for us, as we can take as many people as there are online to complete, everyone will be able to have a laugh on comms together, and it’s much more than just us all being in the same JP. We have to coordinate.

We are not a large group of hundreds, instead we fill the middle ground that a lot of guilds do. I would go as far to say, working as it was intended. Filling the gap that was needed for guilds who were not in dungeons because they are too small.

Yes they take a while to unlock, but we are here for the long run. How many years did we play GW1. We don’t want it all unlocked in a couple of months, we want something that keeps us going for the long months and years that we have planned to play this sequel.

I empathise, I do. But small guilds of 2-5 have dungeons and fractals, let us medium guilds of 10-25 have guild missions ):

MY SUGGESTIONS TO SOLVE THE INFLUENCE PROBLEM

The point of guild missions is to give people a reason to work together to achieve something. The current influence setup does not cater to this, because the more people that do things together, the less influence you net per person. That’s fine. It gives small guilds the ability to be able to keep up. It also makes the guild mission system necessary.

I’ll give my personal suggestions first, and then suggestions that mesh with your current setup more appropriately.

Personal suggestions:
1. Remove the influence cost on guild mission tiers.
2. Make the first Bounty Option available on guild creation.
3. The currency for opening new tiers would be based on the new guild currency received for completed missions. (Merits)
4. Remove the build timer. You already limit weekly merit, the build timer is unnecessary.
5. This system should be entirely different from influence, with NO connection between the 2.
6. Influence should be used for other things. The current system is kind of limited. Add in some nice, expensive consumables that make life easier for players. Example: Add a dungeon devoted lineup. By opening this you would open the path to consumables that say allow you to summon a repair npc, or banker, that can be used by guild members, in the dungeon. Create a crafting line that increases experience gained, or gives guild members a small chance for double items on creation. There are sooo many consumable types of items you could add in to lessen the influence banked up by large guilds. You could even have an ownership section, where GIGANTIC amounts of influence (it is called influence) are used to purchase affiliation with a map, lowering the cost of way-points and goods on that map by a percentage, or increasing the rewards from events in those areas. Make the affiliation temporary, like 2 weeks long, so that it is a constant expenditure. Imagine the larger pve guilds using this in say in Malchior, or the other Orr maps. This would also encourage all the guild members to play in the same section of the map, TOGETHER.

Suggestions more in line with current ANET ideas:
1. Base the influence cost on a curve determined by influence gained in the last 30 days. Small guilds would have to pay more influence per person, but with effort they could easily keep up with the large guilds this way. It would also mean that larger guilds would deplete their guild bank based on how much influence they bring in on average.
2. Decrease or even get rid of build time. Merits are already restricted per week. You don’t need to add another barrier to entry.
3. Remember that this is about fun. We already have to wait for the content because of the merit costs, and merit weekly restriction. It’s going to be a while before anyone gets to see this amazing content.

In theory you built this content so that it would have replayability for PvE players. If that’s the case, you don’t need to restrict access to it and draw it out over time.

It’s almost like a gear treadmill. You put the best gear at the end, but the only people who are ever going to get there are the people who either have huge amounts of support to carry them, or people who grind it out all the way up, and much of your playerbase doesn’t have that kind of time. The best rewards should not be restricted by the guild your in. They should be restricted by your capacity to play the game well. That does not mean being able to play mindlessly for hours, or being able to find the right people to help you. It means knowing your character, and knowing the game. All guilds want to be able to do things together. Scaling guild activities based on the amount of participating guild members could fix that.

My opinion:

The tiers in Guild Missions shouldn’t be there to restrict the content for large groups, they should be there to reward persistence regardless of group size.

Tier 3 guild missions shouldn’t require 50 players, but they should require time, effort, and experience in completing tiers 1 and 2.

They should all be scaled to the amount of participating members though, just like dynamic events, all be it difficult dynamic events.

By choosing to build this the way you have, you are successfully restricting content, which you said you’d never do. Some people might have claimed you did with Fractals but you didn’t. You could experience all 9 fractals at the beginning difficulties, so you did get access to the whole dungeon. But with the guild system as it is, many players will never get to see, experience, or be rewarded for some of these new missions types, and new content. How is that fair for the casual player?

It is pretty obvious who this content is for, WvW G.O.U.S.es. The guild missions are an attempt to lure WvW G.O.U.S.es out of WvW. Small PvE guilds do not need additional content and small PvE guilds do not contribute to WvW issues like long queues and culling.

Isaiah Cartwright.8569:

I know there have been some concerns about Guild Bounties being in the Art of War line. Our goal with this system is to give guilds activities and long-term progression that they can accomplish by working together as a guild. These missions are meant to be difficult and challenging to not only unlock, but to accomplish.

We would also like to make every guild upgrade line valuable to every guild. Currently, Art of War is very focused on PvP and WvW, but our plan is to continue to add more guild upgrades in the Art of War line to accomplish this. These Guild Missions are the first step. Along with this system, we also added a number of new guild upgrades that guilds can earn.

In the end, our goal for all of this content is to give guilds new goals and challenges to accomplished once they have researched deeply into each line, as well as require guilds to have researched multiple lines to unlock some upgrades. We expect guild members to have to work together as a guild to earn the influence needed to unlock these new missions, as well as overcome the challenge of the missions themselves.

In the future, we plan to continue to add more guild upgrades, as well as continue to add challenging guild missions, as we don’t want guilds to run out of goals and accomplishments they can achieve.

~Izzy @-’—-

I’m sorry but putting the start of pve content in a WvWvW tree only proves one thing, that you are out to get money from the Gems->Gold->Influence line, i have no problem with 1 of the missions being there, but you actually have to research art of war 5 before doing ANY guild missions, wich is stupid.

This entire system is cleary designed only to get money from this conversion from the people that are to impatient to wait.

Content should be gated by skill, not by time.
I’d ask for a reply but i’ll get none, since you don’t have an answer for this except “You’re correct” wich you can’t say. It’s a sad day for the mmo-gamer.

As a person who has always defended this game prior to launch and during the first months, i must say, i’m disgusted. And as an added bonus you made it practicly impossible to start new guilds now… GG

the thing is.for the small guild ..its really disappointing……….we cant even have GUILD allainces how are we suppsoe to join up merging another Guild?…and If you are gonna release this system.you ANET (YOU) should have warn ppl that Influences are very important in the upcoming Guild missions…….now that its out.we view in the requirement and one of my officer says " i tot they say this system are friendly to Small guild too"? well appreantly no.if we have this news coming about 1 month or so we could have saved more influences n upgrades those neccassry things instead…….YOU SHOULD HAVE give a heads up instead u mention this system are friendly even to smaler guild too which gives ppl the wrong kinda of impression that its alright even if you are in a small guild but it’s actually NOT!.seriosuly.NOT COOL!

The sheer amount of upset over the new guild mission system should be enough to tell the people in charge at ANet that they have made a mistake.

I understand that the design team are creative people who have a vision of where and what the game should be, but their primary goal must always be to change the game so as to retain and grow the number of players. With that in mind, the mass-influence-requiring, small-group-inaccessible guild mission system is not the way to go.

I’ve offered a complaint, here’s a possibility for a fix:

Guild missions become available immediately, without cost or research. As your rank in a guild skill tree raises, you are offered the option to do harder missions.

For example, at Art of War rank 1, the boss you fight for a bounty can be done by 2-3 players. At Art of War rank 3, you may choose whether to fight an easy boss (2-3 people), a medium boss (3-5 people), or a hard boss (5-8 people).

Etc, etc for higher ranks and for other skill trees. Higher ranks of mission offer higher rewards. Each guild mission can only be done once per day.

This allows smaller guilds access to the content immediately and without assistance. It gives larger guilds access to big group events. It incentivizes larger groups of people taking part in the guild missions, either through a larger guild or through recruiting outsiders. And it makes all the guild skill trees more important to level up.

No solution is going to please everyone. But you should try to please as large a wedge of the player base as possible.

Please see that you’ve made a mistake, and even more, please be willing to change your mind.

My 2 cents:

As a small guild put an advertisment “want to join larger guild for guild missions ONLY”
You get to do missions, get rewards and can work towards your guild achieveing your own goals in time. I dont think that any decent guild will refuse that.

Now, sheer costs and prerequisites can be discussed (and should) and IMO for 1st tier it should be lowered considerably. You can still make it time intensive so it takes a lot of time to research it all (with an option to speed it up with influence and THAT is what infuence cost should be used for).

2nd, ive seen few “small guilders” say that they dont want to recruit “childish mean people” but, believe or not, not everyone out there is “childish mean people” i find it just as an excuse to not have to do anything with anyone out there ever.

As much as i have been loud in other games against funneling people to raids, putting good stuff/development in raids only and that all playstyles (solo to raider) should have access to same rewards, simple socialization and finding good people out there is pretty much one of the pillars of MMO. Want to get influence faster? Recruit more good people. Yah, it requires some effort.

And on ascended items i encourage ANet to limit them to trinkets. It really doesnt add anything to the game except unnecessary grinds, and instead go the route putting awesome skins that take very long time to acquire instead ascended items. It will come down to either make ascended items a bit longer to acquire than exotics (which defeats their purpose) or be “left behind”. Its still not much of a problem with only trinkets, but with whole set…it will be. So to save you and us of all the problems of gear progression….just stop it while it hasnt escalated too far to be irrepairable.

Vey well written, Matipzieu KyA. I hope Anet at leasts considers what you wrote, even if they do not reply to it.

i only have small guild with 3 ppl

if u ask why dont u join larger guild?
some ppl have different online time to play
so it’s immposible if we must do guild mission together, so only "some ppl" on big guild can get the profit

so i think the solution is

1. please make guild mission can finish by 1 party
2. please remove the unlock things that very immposible for small guild
3. please reduce difficulty for time to do the mission (ex : bounty) its immposible kill 7 champ with 1 party on 15 minute
4. better guild mission have private area only for 1 party
5. make it daily like bounty t1 for 24 hour and reduce the build time, so some ppl can do on his own time
6. make the reward daily

Does anyone remember WoW guild perk introduction? How guilds sprung up just for the perks and everyone would join them during the leveling process for all the goodies they provided?

New guilds were (not sure how it is nowadays) strangled by the simple choice of new recruits comparing joining them, or joining an established perk guild.

I was getting tired of the game because I was feeling it too much individualistic.

The upcoming guild missions was going to solve this. My small guild (8 members, all real life friends) would play together.

I am really disappointed. We are few and don’t have enough influence (and never will) to do the guild missions.

Unfortunately, the guild mission system runs counter to a very simple tenet that is required for any successful game:
It must be easy to access, but difficult to master.
Easy access is necessary so that players get involved and engaged in it.
Difficult mastery is necessary to keep players challenged, so that they will keep coming back for more.

The guild missions are NOT easy to access due to the prohibitive cost for unlocking them. Accessing this requires:
1a. More guild influence points than a small guild (5 people) can muster;
OR
1b. Joining a larger guild, which may run counter to some people’s preferred playstyle;
AND
2. At least 10 active players to participate in any guild mission.

YES, small guilds CAN unlock guild mission content eventually, but will only start doing so months after larger guilds do so.
But NO, they will not be able to complete even the most simple mission without at least 10 players.

YES, players in small guilds CAN join larger guilds (without giving up their membership in the small guild), but if they do not like playing with large groups of strangers (and only prefer grouping with their close or real-life friends), they may not enjoy themselves, even if they would otherwise enjoy the content.

Unfortunately, because of the access barriers imposed to guild mission content, some players will never be able to earn any guild merits. And these players just happen to be exactly the casual players that are Guild Wars 2’s intended target audience.

Therefore, I am hoping that the next month or so, the developers will see the impact the current system will have collected feedback both in-game and out-of-game and will be able to adjust the system accordingly in order to please as many players as possible.
(Of course, on a personal note, I am hoping that they will add reduced-scale guild missions with a lower unlock cost for small guilds to earn (small amounts of) guild merits.)

I think the masses have spoken, the small guilds are in agreement that the current system alienates them from the guild mission content.

So what exactly is the Solution you are wondering.
Well the solution is actually in game already.
————————————
GUILD LICENSE
————————————
Yep, The guild license is the key to Making it easier for EVERYONE to experience the content provided with this recent patch.

So here is an example of what I am talking about.

Guild A has 9 players in it.
Guild B has 85 players in it.
& Guild C has 160 players in it.

Guild A has the default tier of guild status, and therefor does not need to update to tier 2, meaning their total influence cost to unlock the guild mission is 10,000.
-
Guild B has the tier 2 guild status, due to needing more members, and has the total influence cost to unlock the SAME guild mission is 20,000 influence.
-
And if you are following the pattern here, Guild C would be 30,000.

So with that in mind, I’m sure some of you are saying, well what is preventing people from exploiting this, and just branching off into a smaller guild to only have to pay 10,000.
Well that’s where the beauty of the license system comes into play. Every time the guild upgrades to the next tier, their missions become locked until they pay the remaining influence needed for that tier.
So going into an example again.

lets say Guild A has an explosion of members and needs to upgrade to tier 2.
They have unlocked their 10,000 influence quest, but now have it blocked again, until they pay 10,000 more influence to get up to the Tier 2 guild fee of 20k Influence for said mission.

Do you see where I’m going with this ? And before you scream at me that its unfair to block players from simply upgrading their numbers, you are missing the point entirely.

This is not meant to be a punishment to deter people from forming larger guilds. It is simply a balance to ensure that every guild pays their due for having a larger license.
Make no bones about it, if guild A went from 9 to 75 players. They would make that 10,000 Influence fee in absolutely no time at all.

I am bringing all this forward, because I know, personally, hundreds of players who feel discouraged that they have to expand their guild… when they formed it due to RL relationships. Or simply want to have a tight nit group of friends.
This should not be discouraged, but embraced. As we ALL have different preferences. And in guildwars 2, the main point of the game is to play it how you want. From the class, to the weapons, to the traits. To how you find your gear.
Crafting, Dungeons, farming, WVW… its all about choice.
And with this recent update, the game has moved away from that level of choice, in favor of the masses. Where you join a guild and become another faceless body in their endless ranks.

I for one, vote that the power be balanced in a more reasonable way. Ensuring that players can always do the things they want. And never feel that they have to abide by some arbitrary ruleset that demands they genuflect to the next big thing, less they fall behind in the content

If you approve this message. Please mark this up and Quote it in your post, that way Anet can see, they have a solution right in front of them. They just have to notice it.

:)

Just read that by participating in the guild missions you do not get the new currency or the rewards that were listed unless you were in the guild and present for the mission. I was starting to be ok with this patch- I figured I could join in other guilds missions when they started and get commendations while I waited for my guild to build up and one my guild can start the mission then people would WANT to help because they would get nice rewards. Now I see that is not the case.

What motivation do people have to come help guilds that do finally get the event kicked off? NONE No commendations or the other rewards for helping the guild out.

Could not get the quote to work but this is what I am talking about:

Shinzan.2908:

AnthonyOrdon.3926:

If you participated in the event to take the bounty down, you will immediately receive your personal reward for guild bounties for that week and your guild will receive completion credit for that target.

This makes it sound like any player participating will get 50 silver, the rare drops and a personal guild commendation, but only the guild that kicked the event off will receive a guild merit, correct?

No, you have have to be in the guild with a mission active. Sorry for the confusion, I wrote the whole thing from the perspective of someone who is trying to run a mission.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/Guild-bounty-hunt-Mission/first#post1514469

And that’s also a good point. Why the heck should I help other guilds do their guild missions when they’ll get better rewards than me?
They can go lick a bollock for all I care.

@Mungrul:
I am guessing it will count as a regular dynamic event for you. If you are still needing those for your daily achievement, you could join in.

I’d rather do a normal event than help some other guild get geared thank you very much.
And this is what the community at large will think.
It breeds resentment.

I don’t want to join a guild just for the access to the new BIS-items. I like to play with friends or random strangers without commitments. Now I HAVE to join a guild to get the fastest / “easiest” access to the new ascended trinkets / rings. That’s not fair – people from (preferably large) guilds get a huge headstart in the new itemization which causes imbalances though gear gating. Let me play your awesome game without being forced to join a guild for personal incentives. No guild deserves that.

I also agree with: https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/New-guild-missions-opinions-concerns/page/14#post1522077

I only see one glaring issue with the guild missions.

Yes, you can train other non-PVP/Non-WvW mission types from other trees,…BUT they require guild commendations (or whatever the currency is called) to UNLOCK them.

The only way to get commendations is to train War to lvl5 and then run the distasteful (to ME, hence MY issue) PvP style guild missions to get the PvE missions unlocked.

Can’t we simply remove the commendation requirements from the other unlocks? If GW2 is supposed to be a game where you get to choose your own play-style, and play the game as you enjoy it – this seems to be very much the opposite.

The gold for influence, the time, that will come – big deal. But being forced into a direction I resent and do not enjoy is not what I expected from ArenaNet. Honestly I had had no “downsides” to admit when talking to other MMO gamers. This is my first, and since it a game called *Guild*Wars, I consider it a big one.

Remove commendation requirements from other unlocks. That is my humble and fervent suggestion. Please.

I guess needing 5 players for a dungeon party is also needless gating of content…. just so unfair.

I’m a leader of a quite small guild (30 on the roster, actually the same 2-5 members are online in common, every additional one is a rare bonus and not really common).
We have Politics 4, Economy 4, Art of War 5 and Architecture 3 and currently saved 16K influence in the pipe that we didn’t dare to spend without knowing what will come in the future.

So, we lack 14K influence for unlocking the first tier of Guild Missions (Bounty), not even talking about the other tiers and mission types.
Anyway, keeping in my that you can participate in such guild missions without being in the guild that activated it: I don’t have any problems with not being able to activate those guild missions by ourselves the next weeks/months whatsoever.
Even if I would have expected you don’t have to unlock those in specific orders, instead of giving the guild the option which guild mission type to choose next (providing more variety of active guild missions in the world that way, instead of having the same types in the first weeks/months from all guilds out there).
And I would have thought that the first guild mission type (tier 1) isn’t difficult to unlock for any guild, giving them at least something from this new content type to experience by their own starting the first day, without the necessity to have luck being in the right spot if another guild is going to activate one. With the freedom of what type that first unlock would be, we wouldn’t certainly have that much peopl complain about that.

Additional to that, I’m actually more concerned about the fact that the reward for particpating (helping other guilds that obviously already unlocked those guild missions) is the same like participating in every other event. I would have expected that the reward will be more special, a bit at least, probably kind of help guilds to get those guild missions (or that specific type they helped out in)unlocked easier to some degree. Like “Help us in our guild mission, this helps you unlocking yours faster!”
Give them half amount of commendations than guild members of the activated mission get and/or something that makes sure guilds without any guild missions unlocked can get those other guild upgrades (decrease of WP costs and so on) some way! And adding new ascended gear that isn’t able to be accomplished through all the other content is kind of a concern as well for me, but not that much as the previous point…

But please make sure that this content is as challenging as possible. This is another chance to bring content that you can’t blast through without taking care of mates and yourself, especially for large groups of players! Hope the dynamic scaling is doing a good job here, not making content trivial after a certain amount of players joined in…

And the necessity of more than 10-20+ players to even have a chance to succeed in specific tiers of those guild missions is absolutely ok in my opinion as well, even if my guild will probably never have that much players online at the same time (apart from the fact that it will take ages to unlock those tiers…). Not every content has to adept to every amount of players, as long as the content doesn’t provide stuff (problem at the moment it seems is ascended earrings in general!) that you can’t get through any other content …

Allure.1249:

I think the masses have spoken, the small guilds are in agreement that the current system alienates them from the guild mission content.
:)

The masses have not spoken! The masses are playing the game happily… only the whiners have spoken..

Slowburn.5319:

I guess needing 5 players for a dungeon party is also needless gating of content…. just so unfair.

… You don’t have to join a guild or build up any relationship which some people don’t want just to complete dungeons. You can do them with random people from /m or gw2lfg. Those missions (and the new gear / precursor chances) force you to sozialize with institutions and theis specific structures (preferably large guilds) that some people don’t like. I prefer friends / contacts / random strangers over guilds that need a lot of caring…

Small close knit guilds have now been punished and will have problems recruiting, and huge guild companies are rewarded. This feels like a WoW model.

Slowburn.5319:

Allure.1249:

I think the masses have spoken, the small guilds are in agreement that the current system alienates them from the guild mission content.
:)

The masses have not spoken! The masses are playing the game happily… only the whiners have spoken..

Well, if there are 17+ pages of “whiners” about the same exact thing . . . maybe there IS a problem.

Slowburn.5319:

Allure.1249:

I think the masses have spoken, the small guilds are in agreement that the current system alienates them from the guild mission content.
:)

The masses have not spoken! The masses are playing the game happily… only the whiners have spoken..

Only thing worse that whiners are those who whine about whiners… 2nd order whiners? Lol.

Besides with ~25,000 views on this post alone there’s obviously a significant concern – not the majority clearly, but if you’re not one of them what are you doing?

Sowin.5187:

Slowburn.5319:

Allure.1249:

I think the masses have spoken, the small guilds are in agreement that the current system alienates them from the guild mission content.
:)

The masses have not spoken! The masses are playing the game happily… only the whiners have spoken..

Well, if there are 17+ pages of “whiners” about the same exact thing . . . maybe there IS a problem.

If all it takes to declare a problem is a 17+ page thread, we could be in real trouble. “I don’t like X” “go make a post on the forum, we’ll all chime in and once it hits page 18 they’ll have to change it”.