Guild Wars 2

GW2 ended up in a way different way that we all imaged it would have been...
I have to admit, I was hugely disappointing when GW2 was first released. I actually took a break from GW2 during Halloween 2012 and started again around Dragon Bash, since it felt like I was being falcon punched right in my face. So many things has been changed during the 2009 TRAILER and Beta weekend(s) from what it is today.
Sad but true..

Here’s a problem:

Veterans will stay. The issue is new players. To bring in new players, you’d have to change or add stuff because if it stayed the same since the beginning its not going to help.

You’ll ask why they didn’t do either and they will say they already had. Whether or not it was the right things doesn’t change the fact they did add and change stuff.

Again, its the result of poor choices. We have seen proof posted here that ArenaNet likes to dump nearly finished content and restart to make something completely new.

Don’t fix what isn’t broken. Yes the new dailies are an improvement over the old ones in many respects, however the old system wasn’t broken or even bad. The old ones most of the time also didn’t require you to go out of your way to get dailies. The new player experience (NPE) straight up took away a lot of what made GW2 good when I was a new player. The NPE has personally made me extremely reluctant to level any new alts by adding needless grind to the game. Yes, giving new players a helping hand is a good thing. However I feel that Anet is on their own “island” so to speak. How many new players does GW2 get these days? My guess is not too many. Ncsoft themselves have said that the core playerbase has stabilized with most of their income coming from established players. GW2 hasn’t really done any advertising to attract new players and has been pretty low on the radar in terms of MMO releases and expansions(probably because GW2 has none so far). My vain hope is that the developers and marketers at Anet haven’t gone completely bonkers and that they released things such as the NPE and new dailies to pave the way for an expansion of some sort. But that might be wishful thinking on my part.

As many have said before me I feel like Anet is paying too much attention to statistics and metrics which are easily measured. However, statistics alone without any background context are meaningless. It is extremely difficult to turn things like player opinion and desires into a metric. However, this information is invaluable and gives meaning to statistics and metrics. Anet seems to be sacrificing long term gains and player loyalty to gain income in the short term.

I am not sure what kind of feedback, if any, Anet takes from players. Players have been begging for changes such as new skills/weapons sets, new dungeons, more new areas. However, Anet’s priorities don’t seem to match what the general player base wants and while they are getting better on content delivery, it is not enough .

On the surface, Anet seems to be out of touch. These problems are magnified by the fact that Anet has a closed door policy and does not communicate their plans with the fanbase. How are fans supposed to get excited if literally nothing is announced until a month or less before release? Yes, players are going to be disappointed and complain if a feature or piece of content doesn’t quite pan out but honestly, the devs at Anet need to toughen up. Anet can hide behind forum moderations all they want, but they cannot hide from reality. How can a company, especially a company focused on creating games expect to succeed without good communication with their customers and fanbase? Ultimately Anet needs to pump out some real, significant content and get rid of their current communication policy. Sure tomorrow, most players will still be here, but how long until even the most stalwart of veterans start leaving one after another out of sheer boredom?

Did “play how I want” ever actually exist in gw2? Seems to have been more like a unicorn than an actual thing.

Lishtenbird.2814:

The “Play How I Want” concept of the originally developed and advertised game (disregarding the origin of the quote) is steadily fading away with every patch:

It’s extremely important that we stay true to our philosophy that you should be able to play Guild Wars 2 the way you want to play the game in order to reach the most powerful rewards. — from Colin Johanson on Guild Wars 2 in the Months Ahead, January 2013

How did it happen?

WORLD BOSSES

Before:

• Open an online timer for your server, group with like-minded players and do events that you want when you want. Feel yourself as a hero who willingly saves Tyria from daily threats! Feel how the world is living and changing because of you, coordinate with people and announce the next boss you gonna beat!
• Beat a world boss with some 3-5 people next to you at low hours, and feel great because it was challenging and fun! Or do not beat it and understand that your efforts were not enough and you should get better.

Now:

• After the Megaservers improvement, put a list of times for world bosses next to your PC and stop doing whatever you were doing offline to join the boss you want to play. Feel like you’re doing a scheduled task at your job in the office.
• Always be accompanied by a megazerg, tag and spam “111” to win. No need to know the encounter, you won’t see anything because of particle effects and lags.

HOME WORLDS

Before:

• Choose a server you like, be it a Spanish server or an unofficial RP server, speak the language of your choice and get to know “your” people.
• See the same people, get acquainted and say “hi” on your favourite journeys.
• Build a WvW community, recruit and ask for help!

Now:

• After the Megaservers improvement, get placed with random people who speak different languages and can’t care less about you and your interests.
• Meet random people you’ve never seen before and never will.
• Forget about talking about WvW in map chat.

UNLOCKING TRAITS

Before:

• Start leveling and get new stuff to make your build better (with 3 tiny payments) straight away. Do what you want and enjoy the aspects of the game you like! It doesn’t matter if it’s your 1st or 64th character, you simply play!

Now:

• After the Trait improvement, grind all over the world (including WvW) with each and every character doing the same stuff over and over again. Or pay tons of money with gold and skillpoints (which you have to collect and which have gold value) to unlock it for each and every character.

UNLOCKING SKILLS

Before:

• Start leveling and unlock new skills gradually and rapidly. Receive skillpoints to unlock skills here and now.
• Do content depending on your skill, and not your level. 10th character? Will feel like a breeze!
• Equip weapons and kill stuff to unlock all 5 weapon skills straight away. Love GS5 skill? Unlock it and use it now!

Now:

• After the NPE improvement, start leveling and grind with “1111211112” to the level where you can unlock the skills. Wait for levels to get some skillpoints.
• Do content depending on your level, and not earlier. 10th character? Your problem.

PERSONAL STORY

Before:

• Play PS when you want and how you want. Experienced? Jump above the level requirement and beat it because you can!

Now:

• After the NPE improvement, play PS in chunks when they know for sure you can beat it and won’t uninstall the game from the frustration of understanding that you’re not skilled enough. Experienced and want challenge? Your problem, grind and wait.

EXPLORATION

Before:

• Walk around the world and feel like a free hero. Do what you want when you want.

Now:

• After the NPE improvement, follow the arrows (and press [F] to win). No need to make decisions.

Spot on thread

+1
Facts. I’ve been saying that “play how you want” died at the moment when the new Trait System was introduced. Worst call I have seen in MMORPGs in many years.

But what bothers me the most about all this, that there’s people there in Anet that keep making terrible calls for the game, that most people really dislike and even when the community makes a thread with 3400 replies and 160 000 views about how bad a certain change is, Anet refuses to do anything except adding more designs that ruin the game even further.

:S

I think changes are good. “Old” players will not feel bored because of changes.
Discussion (about changes) on forum is part of the fun to some. And interesting to ANET. Changes could be “bad” looking from some angle, but it’s okay if they are about as good as before, only thing that changes is point of view.
And I really don’t know wether ANET is reading forums or not – but what else are they here for. I’ve been thinking, WoW is Blizzard’s game and they have forums, and that game is about war, and war is profit, if gamers would have some interesting ideas to give for the game —> blizzard —> USA. Now that’s just conspiracy and off-topic… but a way to use forums too.

On another hand forums can be used to develop the game and consider the ideas —> potential profit material
I would rather ask, why wouldn’t ANET read these forums, if at least by glance?
Of course they are gonna read.
It’s this doubt/faith thing we have with other people sometimes, when we feel like our relationship is not well.
I’ve been trigger-happy doubting some people in close past because of my own psychological imbalance.
And when playerbase goes skritt-forged-pack-intuition, all we need are about 2-4 first players to comment agreeingly on the matter and the rest come cheering after.

Back to the matter of changes.
Take christmas toys from few years ago, and my little sister for example. Her old toys pile up somewhere and become forgotten. That was not quite the case with me, actually, but even I must confess getting new things for me is exciting.
All new shiny clean.
Who doesn’t want? It’s like when you get wild in market and come out with twice as much stuff than you intended to.
I saw cute plushies of one brand I didn’t know about in the grocery store and I bought each type of them. They are small, cute, and you want them.

GW2 does updates because other games do that too – and it’s also important to keep “old” players playing and possibly buying things from gem store.

Since I’m new player, I can’t tell, but GW2 could use something revolutionary update, just like any other game at some point. And more advertising.
Now my thoughts have crumbled, have your delicious puzzle here.

I can agree with some of what OP mentioned, most of it however overly exaggerated, like World Bosses and Megaserver. Megaserver was a necessary evil, i don’t really see the point in complaining about it. And all that crap about feeling like a free hero. Just, please. Hero who toggles #1 and alt tabs during oh so heroic WB fights, that’s how they used to be and some of them still are.

I completely disagree, however, on achievements part. Here’s the counter example of how new achieves allow me to play how i want. Usually during Teq fight i prefer to man a turret, for various reasons, but because of old achieves system i always felt forced to not to and to go do something else instead, something that would help me complete said achieves, because there’s a daily laurel pressure behind those achieves. With new system it’s not the case anymore, i can do whatever the kitten i want. And if i don’t want to complete them at all — i can, there’s no laurel pressure anymore. There’s no kind of pressure behind achieves anymore, except for the puny 10 ap which i don’t give a flying kitten about.

samo.1054:

+1
Facts. I’ve been saying that “play how you want” died at the moment when the new Trait System was introduced. Worst call I have seen in MMORPGs in many years.

But what bothers me the most about all this, that there’s people there in Anet that keep making terrible calls for the game, that most people really dislike and even when the community makes a thread with 3400 replies and 160 000 views about how bad a certain change is, Anet refuses to do anything except adding more designs that ruin the game even further.

:S

It started earlier than that. The introduction of Ascended pushed people into doing fractals, which ArenaNet acknowledged was a bad idea to have only 1 avenue for players to obtain ascended. Of course they (didn’t) remedied that months later by adding more ascended that was gated behind dailies and guild missions that only larger guilds could complete. So we went from play any content you want and get exotics, to Fractals for rings, dailies and guild missions for amulets and rings, and now crafting for armor/weapons. The trait system just furthered the “push” towards playing how ArenaNet wants, there are also dozens of farming nerfs, content changes, and grindy content that help push players too.

Anyone remember when Karma was meant to be the play how you want currency? That’s the real litmus for the death of play how you want, when the currency that backed it is abandoned you know it’s dead.

Lishtenbird.2814:

EXPLORATION

Before:

• Walk around the world and feel like a free hero. Do what you want when you want.

Now:

• After the NPE improvement, follow the arrows (and press [F] to win). No need to make decisions.

OP – +1 and thank you. Having experienced the NPE on my alt, it’s not something I wish to revisit. I do not require arrows to show me where the next vista is, in fact I find it insulting. The core of this game – PvE wise – was built around exploration and discovery. I was amazed at all the things I found simply by running and jumping as a new player. But now who in their right minds can possibly recommend a game that treats you like a four-year old? Last time I checked this wasn’t Pirates 101.

Lishtenbird.2814:

The “Play How I Want” concept of the originally developed and advertised game (disregarding the origin of the quote) is steadily fading away with every patch:

It’s extremely important that we stay true to our philosophy that you should be able to play Guild Wars 2 the way you want to play the game in order to reach the most powerful rewards. — from Colin Johanson on Guild Wars 2 in the Months Ahead, January 2013

EXPLORATION

Before:

• Walk around the world and feel like a free hero. Do what you want when you want.

Now:

• After the NPE improvement, follow the arrows (and press [F] to win). No need to make decisions.

I am not happy with many of the changes you mention either. Even so they do not, for the most part, have much (or anything) to do with, “powerful rewards.”

Also, You can still walk around the world doing what you want while exploring.

Lishtenbird.2814:

DAILIES

Before:

• Play what you want, how you want, when you want and get rewarded naturally with stuff, experience and AP for loyally playing the game.
• Never go out of your way if you don’t want to and still get it naturally.

I frequently, usually actually, had to go out of my way to complete dailies. Still do under the new system but now I can finish going out of my way more quickly than was the case before.

Perhaps I am wrong but I always thought about the idea of “playing how I want” coming from the fact that you can play the game using any profession, build, utilities, weapons and etc. You can play your character whatever you want from start to end game.

Now if talk about something more specific: I do think the new daily takes away a bit of the liberty from players. Dailies should be a general quest, like was before. I can’t see the reason why only a certain fractal level would count towards daily when you have a range of 1-50, with same content, changing only the difficulty; or even why do we need to play with a specific profession on PvP.

Play as you want is not gone.

You can play this game however you’d like (within the actual confines of the game and it’s mechanics of course).

Getting item/reward you want any time you want does not equal play as you want.

pdavis.8031:

Thats about all I can think of at the moment. Please feel free to add to the list, but I believe those cover most of the arguments against this change. Thanks!

I’m honestly surprised you haven’t listed the main con concern voiced many times:

• The source of slower, but steady AP gain which came from simply playing the game has been removed. Now you have to go out of your way to get 10AP (and experience for alts), and cannot get 5-8AP by simply playing the game the way you want.

That’s why for a PvE player with his preferences (be it Tequatl and Wurm or dungeons and fractals or Silverwastes and Dry Top) it’s next to impossible to get any achievement points unless he goes out of his way. And I bet that PvE players who know what they like to play each evening or each weekend are the majority.

Lishtenbird.2814:

HOME WORLDS

Before:

• Choose a server you like, be it a Spanish server or an unofficial RP server, speak the language of your choice and get to know “your” people.
• See the same people, get acquainted and say “hi” on your favourite journeys.
• Build a WvW community, recruit and ask for help!

Now:

• After the Megaservers improvement, get placed with random people who speak different languages and can’t care less about you and your interests.
• Meet random people you’ve never seen before and never will.
• Forget about talking about WvW in map chat.

This 1000%. God, I miss my old Tarnish Coast community. Truly.

All your other points are spot-on as well. I hope someone on the development team reads it.

Probably the best thread ever seen on these forums.

Play the way you want! As long as you do it exactly like we tell you to.

GOSU.9574:

I play how I want every time I log in.

+1 Same here!

Reply to OP+
World Bosses & Megaservers/Home Worlds
They were needed and good additions in my book, since it added a time set for the major world bosses so they were easier to organize for being Teq Tri-wurm and Karka. Also it helped them be successful in the late night and early morning time-zone as the players have a time to aim for them, the rest still seem the exact same as they were before.

The homeworld part I really can care less, since I see the home world and always has as my WvW pool not my player pool. But I have always had friends on all the different servers due to a lot of my GW1 friends going to different places.

Traits, Skills, & Leveling
You nailed it!

Personal Story & Exploration
I find the arrow can be very helpful when your looking for that last PoI mapping, otherwise I dis-regard it completely.

Story wise, well I never really noticed the change till I tried to keyfarm since most my toons I level in WvW so they can do the 1-80 story by the time I get to it without a hitch even now. (If they removed from 10 up I think would fix this problem since that would still hinder the keyfarmers and not the rest of the players.)

Dailies & more….
I partially agree with you ont he daily change, I have yet to have any incentive to touch anything in PvE because I would do dungeon or Fractals when they were daily mainly and with it being low level Fractals and have yet to see a dungeon and most of it being open world stuff… I mapped twice, if I wanted to run around those maps again I would be doing mapping a third time and that will only happen when I need to do it for another legendary….. I have 11 80s on my account give ME something to do with those 4 you give me, not LOW LEVEL CRUD! I am not here to help level your lowbies anet and if my friends want help with that THEY CAN ASK! PvP I like that they are trying to get people to try out new classes daily, it will help the playerbase IMO in the long run. WvW they did great.

And I so can’t agree more I miss being able to do over 50 on Fractals, hell I have still yet to get my level back to 50 since the change… they killed a lot of my Fractal push with that change… Still don’t get why us people that were up there got punished and had to relevel that crud…

Past that you make some valid points that I really have little care about. But I do agree, would be nice to be able to do toypocalyspe with friends. (I really didn’t get affected by the gem change since it was fixed before I even noticed there was no custom exchange and was correcting people that there was one….)

TL:DR
I agree with some of his points and partially with others and not at all with a couple.

On the new players side
Skill unlocking the way it is may be better for them, they don’t know all the skills on all the classes at that point so it is less of an annoyance and can be helpful on their first character, but I do not see why it effects anything past the first character.
Traits, it gives new players aim to explore, but then they make a new character and get pushed away from that because they either have to do the same thing again or farm tons of gold to get all the traits and not just that, even to get just the useful ones.
Personally Story I think hinders the new player, I can see stoping them at 10 to push them on to doing something to progress their character to show them they can take a break from story if needed past that it should never be every 10 levels.
Home Worlds and Megaservers is better for them then making the wrong choice and finding no one to play with. So only thing this really effects is WvW. (I veiw EotM as PvE not WvW)

Conclusion
They are taking steps in the right direction, I will give ANet that, but they are going way to far with things in aiming at ONLY NEW players and not EXISTING players that it is going to hurt them since after that first 80 the new players are technically now an exisiting player. So being pushed to do the same thing to progress 8 different classes really will kill a person, at least before you could choose how you leveled a character and built it, now you have to pay to do some in either doing the same thing 8 times or gold. The leveling system is okay, but the soulbound unsellable/unsalvageable crap is really stupid and if you really do have to get to the level to unlock the vistas and skill points on a new account I really feel sorry for them.

Since many are still focusing on “PHIW means you get best gear” and ignoring everything else, added the following to OP:

Of course it’s not only about “most powerful rewards” (even if enjoyment is the best reward you can get from a game), but about the overall feeling of freedom the game had – which definitely existed and which is the reason “Play How I Want” quote became so popular and went far beyond the meaning of “get BiS gear anywhere” in the community.

You know you can turn that arrow off entirely if you want, right?

And megaservers were the best thing to happen to world bosses. Before that, on most servers it was “run with the reset zerg or miss out” for most bosses, and I don’t miss that at all.

I always wonder about people that always brings up the whole “Play as you want” thingy.

Where would you draw the line?
Should I be allowed to sit around in DR and chat all day and get everything in the game? If not, why not? Maybe that is how I want to play? Shouldn’t I, based on your adamant stance on the play as you want statement, be allowed to do just that and still get everything in the game?

Traced.3495:

Locce.8405:

Dailies used to count toward festival meta events, so that an avid player could easily skip festival activities that he did not like. But this Winterday they do not count and we need 11 of 11 available achievements…

I just learned about this and I’m pretty shocked. Why this kind of step backwards? I thought the festival worked brilliantly last year. I got a lot of it done with the dailies. Doing things I wanted to do anyway. :/

The lists:
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/A_Very_Merry_Wintersday_%28achievements%29

Usually I don´t care for achievements but this years meta-reward is something I actually want.

Now I´m left to decide to hate Anet for not getting the reward or for forcing me to grind 500 bell-choir-notes in a MMO (of course even with adjusting my keymapping every time I work on it; would rather do the jumping-puzzle achievemant than that)

However one interprets “play however you want”, what really matters is that the current direction is clearly much more restricting for gameplay than before.

I just have a hard time to see how restricting options should attract more players and hold the vets interested – and why the usual crowd thinks it´s a good idea to kitten off players instead of pleasing more with a few easy adjustments and more options.

Hyper Cutter.9376:

You know you can turn that arrow off entirely if you want, right?

Yes, I do. Does it vanish from existence and stops spoonfeeding players if I turn it off?

lordkrall.7241:

Should I be allowed to sit around in DR and chat all day and get everything in the game? If not, why not? Maybe that is how I want to play? Shouldn’t I, based on your adamant stance on the play as you want statement, be allowed to do just that and still get everything in the game?

I’m afraid the shine of your celestial armour makes it hard for you to see what people actually say.

Lishtenbird.2814:

I’m afraid the shine of your celestial armour makes it hard for you to see what people actually say.

Krall, when did you get a full set of that?! How? I want the shinies!

“play how i want” is different from “i want to get what i want as i please”

-100

Another misinterpretation of a text.

Lishtenbird.2814:

I’m afraid the shine of your celestial armour makes it hard for you to see what people actually say.

But wouldn’t play as you want to get the best stuff (as the statement actually says) also mean that I should get all the best stuff from just chatting?

lordkrall.7241:

But wouldn’t play as you want to get the best stuff (as the statement actually says) also mean that I should get all the best stuff from just chatting?

John Smith.4610:

No.

I think I’m going to start a thread:

List of Threads Lishtenbird Has Started To Complain About the Same Things

I’ll be sure to reserve at least 5-6 posts at the beginning for future links.

I wish Colin would just show up and clarify that “play how you want” is indeed referring to getting top-stat gear, NOT skins, NOT legendaries, NOT low-population world bosses, NOT optimal builds, NOT traits, NOT anything other than “you can get max-stat gear in WvW… you can get max-stat gear in open-world PvE… you can get max-stat gear in dungeons…”

I still play the way I want, because GW2 is not my only option.

Nobody is forcing anyone to play GW2 and if you feel you are forced to play a certain way then move on to something better. That is what I did a while back and still enjoying my gaming time, and I play what I want, the way I want…

I still visit the forums time to time because I still have some hope for this game.

Lishtenbird.2814:

Vayne.8563:

The idea of play how you want has been taken so far out of it’s original context, it’s lost all it’s meaning. Anet was pretty clear on what they meant.

In most games, you level by going quest hub to quest hub and that’s pretty much what you do, until you get to a high enough level to go to the next quest hub, afterwhich you do dungeons then you raid. That’s the PvE experience of most themepark MMOs.

Here you go:

It’s extremely important that we stay true to our philosophy that you should be able to play Guild Wars 2 the way you want to play the game in order to reach the most powerful rewards.

I want to play Tequatl and Fractals 50 and CoE speedruns to get AP to get the most powerful rewards of Hellfire and Vambrace skins and the upcoming Pinnacle weapon skins.

Can I? No. I have to grind Queensdale events and harvest plants in Caledon. Yay?..

And I want to be able to sit in Lion’s Arch chatting with friends and have Eternity mailed to me from the heavens. I guess neither of us get to play how we want, huh….

+1 You have a gift Lishten.

timmyf.1490:

I wish Colin would just show up and clarify that “play how you want” is indeed referring to getting top-stat gear, NOT skins, NOT legendaries, NOT low-population world bosses, NOT optimal builds, NOT traits, NOT anything other than “you can get max-stat gear in WvW… you can get max-stat gear in open-world PvE… you can get max-stat gear in dungeons…”

When one can’t argue on the problem itself, he argues on the words someone used to describe it…

timmyf.1490:

I think I’m going to start a thread:

List of Threads Lishtenbird Has Started To Complain About the Same Things

I’ll be sure to reserve at least 5-6 posts at the beginning for future links.

…or about that someone who talked about the problem.

Draknar.5748:

Lishtenbird.2814:

I want to play Tequatl and Fractals 50 and CoE speedruns to get AP to get the most powerful rewards of Hellfire and Vambrace skins and the upcoming Pinnacle weapon skins.

Can I? No. I have to grind Queensdale events and harvest plants in Caledon. Yay?..

And I want to be able to sit in Lion’s Arch chatting with friends and have Eternity mailed to me from the heavens. I guess neither of us get to play how we want, huh….

It’s actually not necessary to be hyperbolic or to curb-stomp a straw man to make the point.

Hellfire skins are SKINS. They are not the “most powerful rewards.” AP are not necessary for the “most powerful rewards.”

Maybe English is not Lishten’s first language. “Most powerful,” in this context, cannot mean “best.” If Colin had meant “best,” he would have written “best.”

Colin specifically said “most powerful” because GW2 is a game designed so that you don’t have to do the treadmill of other games:

Run dungeons to get gear for raid 1. Run raid 1 for gear so you can run raid 2. Run raid 2 so you can get gear for raid 3.

That is, very accurately and specifically, what he meant. You’re welcome to pervert it to mean that “you can run world bosses with just 3-5 people” if you like, but that doesn’t mean anybody else will take you seriously.

As a side note, everybody is perfectly welcome to dislike the changes ArenaNet has made and the direction they are taking. I count myself among you! I think we need more 5-man instanced challenging content in this game…

…but you don’t get to pretend that a blog post from Colin in January 2013 somehow justifies every minor quibble you have with the game.

It’s not a betrayal. It’s just changes you don’t like. Get a grip.

Lishtenbird.2814:

timmyf.1490:

I wish Colin would just show up and clarify that “play how you want” is indeed referring to getting top-stat gear, NOT skins, NOT legendaries, NOT low-population world bosses, NOT optimal builds, NOT traits, NOT anything other than “you can get max-stat gear in WvW… you can get max-stat gear in open-world PvE… you can get max-stat gear in dungeons…”

When one can’t argue on the problem itself, he argues on the words someone used to describe it…

timmyf.1490:

I think I’m going to start a thread:

List of Threads Lishtenbird Has Started To Complain About the Same Things

I’ll be sure to reserve at least 5-6 posts at the beginning for future links.

…or about that someone who talked about the problem.

I see what you did there.

Lishtenbird.2814:

lordkrall.7241:

But wouldn’t play as you want to get the best stuff (as the statement actually says) also mean that I should get all the best stuff from just chatting?

John Smith.4610:

No.

So instead of actually coming up with an argument, you link a comment from a red poster that is completely irrelevant to my post?

If you are going to complain about stuff, at least be ready to argue for why it is wrong/right or should be change.

Greetings Listenbird,

You’ve outlined many of the changes that I would say were a step back for Guild Wars 2.

Stand above the vocal posters who continue to state their opinion over and over. It’s been quite obvious for some time that they only intent to belittle disgruntled players into thinking they are “wrong”, even though it’s entirely subjective.

Until they are able to post their valid opinion without either belittling anthers post or starting an argument for the sake of one, then frankly skip their post.

timmyf.1490:

As a side note, everybody is perfectly welcome to dislike the changes ArenaNet has made and the direction they are taking. I count myself among you! I think we need more 5-man instanced challenging content in this game…

…but you don’t get to pretend that a blog post from Colin in January 2013 somehow justifies every minor quibble you have with the game.

It’s not a betrayal. It’s just changes you don’t like. Get a grip.

timmyf.1490:

That is, very accurately and specifically, what he meant. You’re welcome to pervert it to mean that “you can run world bosses with just 3-5 people” if you like, but that doesn’t mean anybody else will take you seriously.

That’s why this part is right there, in the OP after the quote:

Lishtenbird.2814:

Of course it’s not only about “most powerful rewards” (even if enjoyment is the best reward you can get from a game), but about the overall feeling of freedom the game had – which definitely existed and which is the reason “Play How I Want” quote became so popular and went far beyond the meaning of “get BiS gear anywhere” in the community.

You may deny it and stick to the formal reading (because it easier to argue on), but instead look around at what people have been repeatedly saying for the last year in multiple threads, which is summarised in this thread and +1ed many times (including the “starred thumbs up” icon which posts now rarely ever get). The game screamed “play how I want” and “freedom” back then, and now it screams “fool-proof”, “gated”, “spoonfed”. The change may be to your liking, but the change is there and tangible.

I wonder, if I rename the thread to “Freedom Is Gone”, will people still find a way to argue on why “freedom” is a misused word, instead of looking at the problem it describes?

lordkrall.7241:

So instead of actually coming up with an argument, you link a comment from a red poster that is completely irrelevant to my post?

If you are going to complain about stuff, at least be ready to argue for why it is wrong/right or should be change.

Sorry, but I’m can’t take your over-exaggerated strawman (which has already been answered tens of times if you care to read this thread and the dailies thread) seriously. I’ve replied to arguments and will be replying to (new) arguments. But I’m not going to waste time on playing that favourite “I miss the point completely, honestly!” forum game of yours, sorry; I can suggest playing my “quote random red post in reply” game, though, since it might be fun and would make just as much sense

Antara.3189:

Greetings Listenbird,

You’ve outlined many of the changes that I would say were a step back for Guild Wars 2.

Stand above the vocal posters who continue to state their opinion over and over. It’s been quite obvious for some time that they only intent to belittle disgruntled players into thinking they are “wrong”, even though it’s entirely subjective.

Thanks for support and thanks for reading

Lishtenbird.2814:

Hyper Cutter.9376:

You know you can turn that arrow off entirely if you want, right?

Yes, I do. Does it vanish from existence and stops spoonfeeding players if I turn it off?

No, and if that legitimately bothers you, then I suggest you re-examine your priorities in life.

You can play whatever content you want whenever you want and how much or little you want, and you will still progress similarly to other players doing different things. The only reason anybody dares come on here and completely misuse the “play how you want” quote is that they want the rewards more than they want to work for them.

I don’t really have much interest in arguing with you, Listingbird. I have no hope of changing your mind and I honestly don’t give a rat’s kitten what you think.

That said, I believe that it is a bad idea to take developer statements so far out of context. It means that, over time, we’ll get less and less communication. In addition, the communication we do get will have to be so heavily vetted, it will become bland and useless. We’ve already seen it. You’re making it worse.

You may deny it and stick to the formal reading (because it easier to argue on)

If the “formal reading” – the actual meaning, not the one you made up – is “easier to argue on,” I assume that means I’m right.

By reading the comments as stated, my point stands.

By reading the comments based on years worth of forum-poster reimaginings, your point stands.

I’m happy with that assessment.

Andred.1087:

No, and if that legitimately bothers you, then I suggest you re-examine your priorities in life.

I’m looking at it as a creator, not as a generic consumer. Thus the global picture is of higher importance to me than personal experience, even though I can use personal experience as my own source of “metrics” since other “metrics” are only available to me through forums, guild chat/teamspeak, and extrapolations from my knowledge.

timmyf.1490:

If the “formal reading” – the actual meaning, not the one you made up – is “easier to argue on,” I assume that means I’m right.

By reading the comments as stated, my point stands.

By reading the comments based on years worth of forum-poster reimaginings, your point stands.

I’m happy with that assessment.

I’m quite happy with having that assessment as well. Some people see it this way, others extrapolate it and see it that way. The first are right because it is what was said, the second are right because it is what people felt and saw making sense; they had a cool quote which matched the gist and labeled it.

Thus I would also be happy if people actually argued on the “freedom” in question itself rather than whether they agree on the other side’s reimagination or not.

Antara.3189:

Greetings Listenbird,

You’ve outlined many of the changes that I would say were a step back for Guild Wars 2.

Ehh, I see them as side-steps. They change things without making a sum forward development towards solving the problems intended to be solved. (Probably because some of those problems can’t be solved through patches and shifts of the game rules/construction – they’re problems more in the underlying nature of MMOs.)

But as I still find the game playable, I spare the time when I have it to play. Of course, that got pretty rare the last several weeks . . .

Stand above the vocal posters who continue to state their opinion over and over. It’s been quite obvious for some time that they only intent to belittle disgruntled players into thinking they are “wrong”, even though it’s entirely subjective.

Eh, some things are not entirely subjective. Like being required to have Ascended/Legendary to play the game (and not referring to higher-level Fractals with Agony). Or speaking of the requirement to have Best-in-Slot everything on every character.

Now, “play as I want to play” is entirely subjective, and by necessity user-defined. Not to mention possibly problematic if two players’ choices happen to contradict . . . Which is why it irritates me when it comes up in that manner.

Until they are able to post their valid opinion without either belittling anthers post or starting an argument for the sake of one, then frankly skip their post.

All right, here goes.

It is my opinion the concept of “play as you want”, much like “no grind ever” was a misinterpretation and misattribution of what was said in various early interviews and attached to a soundbite to make it sound as though the developers promised something which was not specifically promised.

It is my opinion that, while the original post outlined some interesting points of how things shifted and there was room to talk about it, he keeps shooting himself in the foot by either letting himself be baited personally or by conversation away from the original point to where he can be “right” instead of “worthy of conversation”.

(Because, mind you, the first posts aren’t about ‘right’ but about ‘this is how I see where the game has headed’. It’s subjective, which is okay in and of itself . . . but it’s not “Truth Indisputable”.)

It is my opinion Guild Wars 2 continues to be a relatively decent game underneath a pile of minor issues which stem from repeated attempts to “recalibrate” the core game from where it began. At this point, it needs to be looked at carefully as a whole and not in parts . . . because that’s how we got to this point anyway (what with specific recent changes merging together to form problems these changes were meant to solve in the first place).

It is also, sadly, my opinion we’re going to see probably another round of said “recalibration” before things begin to shift back into making forward progress.

Lastly, it is my opinion having only the people who post on the forums decide what happens to the game is an exercise in shooting yourself in the knee before you go to work in the morning. Ditto for only relying on in-game feedback . . . or survey results . . . or metrics . . .

The real problem is that this is a distraction from the reality. Here’s what your real problem is:

Player retention in this game is bad. I don’t know how bad, but given that having 3500 Achievement Points puts you in the top 10% should give you an idea. 90% of accounts on this game have less than 3500 AP.

80% have less than 1800 AP.

Do you know what the 50/50 split is? It’s somewhere around 800 AP.

If half of the accounts in the game don’t even have 800 AP, that’s a pretty good sign that player retention is not great. For a game that needs people logging in to buy gem store stuff in order to continue to earn revenue, that’s a disaster in waiting.

Now, you need the revenue, so this means you have a couple options: try to bring your old players back (expansion) or try to create new players (sales and retention).

The problem? If you haven’t been retaining players who bought the game in the first two years, there’s no reason to expect you’ll retain the new customers without changes. So: the New Player Experience. If all these players are quitting before they’ve even seen all the content… why? What about the game isn’t appealing to players? That’s what they attempted to fix with the NPE and, to an extent, Megaserver.

My hope is that they’re finished with the “appeal to new players” portion of the strategy and will now move on to “appeal to veteran players” and “bring back lapsed players.” That would mean more content that is traditionally called “end-game” (but I hate that term.)

Anyway, arguing about stupid PHIW kitten just distracts from that core problem: the game isn’t retaining players and changes were needed for it to be financially viable in the long-term.

Allisa Wonderland.8192:

bloodletting wolf.2837:

I think you missed the point. One step forward two steps back.

After reading the OP’s post and Vayne’s response, I suggest that you are the one missing the point.

“White Knight” is being used as a derogatory against people who have aee enjoying the changes, which is the lowest form of argument. If you disagree with Vayne, you are welcome to contribute meaningful discourse to support your counter claim.

I am not 100% on board with every change made to the game, but I don’t expect that I should be. To blanket out this many claims against the evolution of the game really makes me think that the game must still be amazing compared to competing offerings, for people who find so much wrong to still invest large amounts of time in the game.

Funny I never said white knight. That is a derogatory term that I choose not to use.

You are right about this game being better than the competition for now. I would prefer that this game stay better than the competition. That is the reason I state my opinions.

Addressing the core of the game is at least a more impacting solution, something that has been highly underdeveloped since launch. There are several frustrating things about the game play that generally turns people off, one of the main things being the camera. So the fundamentals, the way a player views your game day in and day out, aren’t being addressed or are being band-aided to the point of those minor changes being mostly useless and in some cases detrimental.

I think Birds points are valid and that they have also moved in and back-peddled many times over the course of 2.5 years. When dailies first came out they were pretty restrictive and people complained. They loosened them up and it seemed like most of the complaints vanished. Now they tightened them back up again. 3/4 total, fairly specific, daily tasks is a step back, no matter how you look at it.

If they actually sat down in these design meetings and came up with new and interesting ways to get players to play certain content instead of trying to funnel players around through the daily reward program, they would actually see much better results and far less complaints. These band-aids are getting tiresome.

munkiman.3068:

3/4 total, fairly specific, daily tasks is a step back, no matter how you look at it.

Sure. But they are making a blatantly obvious attempt to get players who only do PvE to participate in the other game modes. Look at the “PvP 101” segment on Points of Interest for an additional example.

You can feel however you like about that, but in the end, it’s 3/12, not 3/4. It’s only by player choice that it becomes 3/4.

And that is “playing how you want.” You can get your dailies only in PvE. Or only in WvW. Or only in PvP. It may not be EASY, but it’s POSSIBLE. (And reasonably possible, it seems.)

munkiman.3068:

If they actually sat down in these design meetings and came up with new and interesting ways to get players to play certain content instead of trying to funnel players around through the daily reward program, they would actually see much better results and far less complaints. These band-aids are getting tiresome.

Now this I agree with completely. The problem is that changing the dailies to try to encourage these other game modes is a relatively easy change. And let’s be real: PvE is doing okay (at least comparatively). The goal is to encourage WvW and PvP.

There’s two huge problems, though. 1) How do you fix them? 2) How long will that take?

I haven’t heard a whole lot of solutions to #1 that don’t make #2 unmanageable.

I think the issue is that both the title, “Play How I Want”, and the proposed revision to “Freedom Is Gone”, are both highly subjective. Personally, I don’t feel that any of the changes referenced in the OP have had an adverse affect on me or my play style. And the revisions to the Dailies/AP acquisition similarly have no effect on me or my play style.

Will I concede that that the previous version of dailies was obtainable without even focusing on it? Sure. Most days, the image and chest would pop up and I would blink a couple of times and think, “Oh, cool”. But I no more went out of my way then to tag 20 rats for Ambient Killer or make sure I was logging in on my necro so I could get Condition Applier just to get the daily then I would now to hop into a different zone to chop down trees while humming the Lumberjack Song from Monty Python because that’s not how I want to play.

How I want to play is still very much alive in the game. I understand that some of the changes over the past year have had a negative impact on other folks’ play styles, but some of the changes have also had a positive effect on people’s play styles. To generalize your own experience, or even the experience of a good percentage of folks, and state that the game cannot be played in the way anyone wants is a bit of a stretch.

timmyf.1490:

The real problem is that this is a distraction from the reality. Here’s what your real problem is:

Player retention in this game is bad. I don’t know how bad, but given that having 3500 Achievement Points puts you in the top 10% should give you an idea. 90% of accounts on this game have less than 3500 AP.

80% have less than 1800 AP.

Do you know what the 50/50 split is? It’s somewhere around 800 AP.

But you assume that this is somehow special, that GW2 is different in that regard, that other game do different.

Do you know how many game did I tried and not got into, or pick up for only a couple weeks? And everybody is like that. Saying that GW2 is not good at keeping their player because half of ppl that bought the game don’t play that much. Do you know how many hours in game does 800 AP mean in average. That’s between 100-200 hours. That’s a lot of hours for most games. With that amount of time, you play a MMO like you play any single player game. You go through the storyline once, you level up your character get some cool stuff you are stop playing. That’s what most ppl do even in MMO. So many game out there, the vast majority of ppl send a limited amount of time in a game before switching to another game.

How GW2 does? I don’t know. We will need to compare it to other game to really know. But you can’t just assume that the game don’t keep its player base because about 50% of their player only play through the story and dungeon only once. That’s what most ppl do in most of their games.