Guild Wars 2

I am 100% certain that there are people who comb through these forums on an official capacity. I highly doubt they are the developers themselves, and I am also 100% certain they don’t interact because they know they would be kitten on and shouted down by the dissatisfied masses that swarm to official forums to voice their displeasure.

dalendria.3762:

Lambent.6375:

A breakdown of mats needed to craft an ascended for any interested.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/crafting/Ascended-Crafting-Material-List/first#post2746832

This is a joke post, right?
The requirements are dangerously close to Legendaries which are supposed to be rare in acquisition. So is an Ascended weapon supposed to be rare? Something only the most “dedicated” players can acquire? Exotics do not have these type of requirements. Also, why can we not obtain any Ascended item using Karma? Why even make that an option at launch for all other gear tiers if you were never going to do it for Ascended? you know the real max stat gear you intended but could not get into the release window.

Also, when will you be increasing the mob difficulty to correspond with the increase stats? I mean unless the original mobs took into account the Ascended power level, then open world content will become even easier. Will it not?

Nah, not a joke post, the only thing I’m worried about is how often chest will give these t7 mats, and how many, and how often an exotic will produce dark matter.

10 Dark matter
500 Pile of Bloodstone Dust
500 Empyreal Shard
500 Dragonite Ore

Maybe I’m missing some things, but the rest of the stuff seems to just require you to make daily trips to low to high level zones, and gather all the metal and wood you see, or just gather them as you’re passing, and doing something else, or if you have the gold, buy them on the tp.

The minute I hit level 80, I instantly bought full exotics and was completely geared.

Literally, within 10 minutes…

Luckily for me, I’m an adult and can set goals for myself, so I still had plenty of things I wanted to accomplish. None of them centered around bettering my character, they were things I simply did for fun.

I’m looking forward to some new goals being introduced that are based around bettering my character, even if slightly.

It’s funny, though… people complain about a lack of progression, a lack of things to do at 80, etc… then they introduce a new tier of item and everyone complains about that.

You can’t make everyone happy, and this seems especially true in Guild Wars 2.

Except for me. I’m happy.

IndigoSundown.5419:

I agree with much of what you say. However, I don’t agree that those who desire gear to work for are more likely to buy gems than people who have the cash, but not the time to “work” for something in a game. It may be that the tryhards are contributing to the system by “working” for gold which they exchange for gems, but if your desire is to work in a game, why spend money also — if the game is set up so that you don’t have to?

I think, rather, that catering to that group was more about high concurrency and less backlash on fan sites and in the media. Big numbers look better. “No end-game” articles and posts have had a negative effect on a lot of games.

You may be right.

But I guess they should not have been saying “endgame is the whole game” for months before and after launch. Also, they should not have written an article post-launch (September) called Endgame Reimagined in which they talk about the endgame being the same at lvl 80 as it was at lower levels (e.g. doing the same things once you reach level cap).

In fact, they should not have said anything about this not being a traditional MMO. About it focusing on keeping people playing by making it fun and introducing new gear based on looks instead of stats.

If they had not said these things just months before and after launch, many of us who believed it would not be disappointed now.

BTW, for years they have been saying this and taking hits in the press. I actually did a lot of research on their horizontal progression approach. Had never seen a MMO like it before so I was trying to understand why they kept saying Guild Wars was different. The press did not always agree with their approach.

So why get skittish now after 7 years of proving the industry wrong?

Guild Wars 1 was successful and has over 6 million box sales. Guild Wars 2 successful by their own admission and is considered one of the fastest selling MMOs. Wonder who bought it? People who read like me about their horizontal, fun for fun sake approach or people who like gear-stat, endgame raiding approach.

And people knew it was not going to be traditional. Found tons of forum posts with discussions about no raids, no higher gear tiers post launch, etc.

I’m fine with Ascended weapons if that’s where they draw the line. Exotics were a bit too easy to feel like I really accomplished something so Ascended weps look like they’ll give me some satisfaction after crafting.

Tsezar.6950:

ascended gear is the biggest lie anet does.. they dont know that they gonna destroy the game with it… i see it coming that ppl gonna leave because of it.. already 5 ppl i know said when more ascended comes into the game they gonna quit.. i mean anet shouldnt forget that this year elder scrolls online comes out.. ppl who start to play it will never come back to gw2 because other ppl have way better gear then them and tehy are miles behind

I am in the TESO beta and I can tell you this,it wont happen.TESO is the SWToR of 2013.

I think a large problem with Arena.net’s approach is that they are falling into the trap of trying be something for everybody. A little bit of “hardcore” content that requires repeated regearing (Fractals), an e-sport for competitive PvPers, a casual environment, etc.

As I result, every time improvements or adjustments are made to one, the rest of the player base feels left out and ignored.

dalendria.3762:

IndigoSundown.5419:

I agree with much of what you say. However, I don’t agree that those who desire gear to work for are more likely to buy gems than people who have the cash, but not the time to “work” for something in a game. It may be that the tryhards are contributing to the system by “working” for gold which they exchange for gems, but if your desire is to work in a game, why spend money also — if the game is set up so that you don’t have to?

I think, rather, that catering to that group was more about high concurrency and less backlash on fan sites and in the media. Big numbers look better. “No end-game” articles and posts have had a negative effect on a lot of games.

You may be right.

But I guess they should not have been saying “endgame is the whole game” for months before and after launch. Also, they should not have written an article post-launch (September) called Endgame Reimagined in which they talk about the endgame being the same at lvl 80 as it was at lower levels (e.g. doing the same things once you reach level cap).

In fact, they should not have said anything about this not being a traditional MMO. About it focusing on keeping people playing by making it fun and introducing new gear based on looks instead of stats.

If they had not said these things just months before and after launch, many of us who believed it would not be disappointed now.

BTW, for years they have been saying this and taking hits in the press. I actually did a lot of research on their horizontal progression approach. Had never seen a MMO like it before so I was trying to understand why they kept saying Guild Wars was different. The press did not always agree with their approach.

So why get skittish now after 7 years of proving the industry wrong?

Guild Wars 1 was successful and has over 6 million box sales. Guild Wars 2 successful by their own admission and is considered one of the fastest selling MMOs. Wonder who bought it? People who read like me about their horizontal, fun for fun sake approach or people who like gear-stat, endgame raiding approach.

And people knew it was not going to be traditional. Found tons of forum posts with discussions about no raids, no higher gear tiers post launch, etc.

Fwiw, GW2 still has all that end-game is the whole game content. However, the game does seem to be catering more to the traditional views. Many people seem to complain about games like GW’s that have no (or limited) open world. However, when a game has an open world, they then race through it to get to max level, and the lobby portion of the game — thereafter ignoring the open world. Wouldn’t it be better to just cut to the chase?

Xae Isareth.1364:

IndigoSundown.5419:

Vayne.8563:

MikaHR.1978:

Vayne.8563:

JK Arrow.7102:

Vayne.8563:

snip

I didn’t completely answer your question when you asked me the same thing so I thought about it a bit more.

The biggest difference I see between the EotN skills and Ascended gear is that the skills did not replace something that players previously did or earned. They did not make anything else purchased obsolete. While some people may feel Exotics are cheap and easy to obtain, not everyone feels that way and is one of the reasons they may complain about the added vertical progression.

Another thing is that the PvE skills were named that because they were not allowed in any form of PvP. That is also not the case for Ascended gear and is why some of the WvW crowd is upset. Especially as that gear was not available at the same time in that game mode.

The last thing that came to mind is that GW1 was very dependent on specific builds. Some builds took advantage of PvE skills, others did not. Gear is not optional. Everyone has to wear it. It will affect every event, challenge, build decision, etc. Many outcomes and decisions are impacted by a gear change.

I’ll see if I can stir up any additional thoughts.

Anet seperated PvP into WvW and SPvP and said, from the very beginning, WvW was never meant to be balanced. That’s why gear is allowed in WvW.

I don’t think exotics are so expensive that it’s such an issue that we have to replace them…particularly because the content doesn’t require it to be replaced.

As for the skills in Guild Wars 1…they were still more neccesary (or at least they’ll make a bigger difference in the long term, than ascended weapons will.

Thats why youll see “transended” weapons next year. Its a gear tremill, no point in denying it.

Sorry but without the content requiring the upgrade it’s not a treadmill. If I don’t need that gear to play the game…then it’s not a treadmill.

I played Rift. I needed a specific amount of focus to queue for a dungeon. Not to beat it…to queue for it.

That’s why I say it’s not a treadmill. In games with gear treadmills there’s a new tier of gear every 3-4 months. If Anet introduced a tier of gear every year and a half, slowly in stages, I wouldn’t call it a treadmill.

I would. Because one treadmill is set at a shallower incline than the other one does not make it “not a treadmill.” People get on real treadmills not because they want to go somewhere, but because they want a result — usually, cardio. A lot of them dislike the process (reading or listening to music to distract themselves), but they want the result.

It’s not about needing the gear, either. It’s about keeping the players who can go to other games to feed their playstyle, while hoping that the ones who don’t want this crap will stay anyway, because there’s nowhere else to go. Don’t you defend so many aspects of GW2 so vehemently because this game gives you enjoyment you cannot find in other games? So, you don’t value having BiS gear. There are people who do.

To me, a gear treadmill is when they keep introducing statistically better gear to the game. If Ascended is the highest it gets to and we don’t see a new level cap with better gear 6 months down the line, its fine.

If in 6 months they go ‘Oh, we got Heroic gear now guys’, then its gonna be GW2, meet
the delete key.

That was the same argument we heard months ago when they introduced the concept of higher stats on legendary, it’s still not anymore true today then it was in 2012.

It’s a treadmill when :

A: you have to work for another set of gear that wasn’t there before
B: the gear you’re working towards improves your overall performance in ANY aspect of the game (ie WvW)
C: you have to work towards the next set of crafting/gathering materials to get there.

If it walks like a treadmill and talks like a treadmill, it’s a treadmill. The fact remains and the naysayers cannot stand to hear this I know, is that this wasn’t part of the game because originally they were against the treadmill entirely Exotic was IT. Then it wasn’t even two months later they decided to add another tier of gear and wait a few months (because they knew that even more people might leave while the community was up in arms about these changes) to reveal them and reveal what you had to do to get them.

This is history folks. It’s sad that some people can’t see what’s really happening here.

The real tragedy is that people are still playing with blinders on instead of actually speaking their mind to the devs to have them change it, no one ever made a difference by just sitting around going “oh well, they got us, hyuck hyuck I still enjoy the game, can i have more punishment for my faith in you please?!” smh

By saying that Legendary weapons will always be upgraded to the highest possible stat available, they are tacitly admitting that they plan to introduce further gear progression in the future, in other words a gear treadmill. If this were not the case, they would just say that Legendary will have same stat bonuses as Ascended, but they went further and said that Legendary will always in the future be upgraded to match the highest available stats, that means they already envision introducing higher gear than ascended in the future.

MandJ.8965:

Ascended Weapons.. ascended Gear.. buff for more HP and other stats in WvW..

@Arena-Net.:
Please do not destroy this game!Please no things like in World of Warcraft, no itemspiral!!! Guild Wars 2 is a wonderful game for PvP (WvWvW), because there is no itemspiral, no buff you get when you play more PvP (WvWvW) than others. It’s a wonderful game because you need skill! And thats why I play this game. I have a chance when I play three times a week against players who played every day five hours. And that makes Guild Wars 2 be one of the best MMO’s ever! So please Arena Net, don’t destroy the game with those alterations!
Why do you tout with this, and now you want to take it in the game? The reasons below were the reasons to buy this game. And now you change it? In my opinion the game will be destroyed with this.
So guys, don’t let this happen. If some guys want an itemspiral than why you play GW2? Make no sense. Arena Net, you had created a game which is different than normal MMO’s. And thats why I love it.
And whats next? Healers and Tanks? You cannot advertise with something, and then after a Year add things you never want to!

At least, sorry for my bad english :P

I agree but its to late. For some reason they feel they need to copy Wow. Once the game becomes the gear treadmill that wow is, it will be all over and most will leave. I also blame it on those lvl 80’s that complain they have nothing to do.

One of the major reasons that Gw2 has only reached a 400k concurrency is due to not having tanks and healers. There are literally millions of mmo players who enjoy tanking and healing and will never buy this game because of that.

Sylv.5324:

MandJ.8965:

If two Guyd fight against, both are good Players. One use full exotic, one use full ascended gear. The ascended gear guy will win. And Guild Wars 2 said, you will win with skill, not gear. So now I -> must <- grind to get this stuff, to have no disadvantage.

Or you can get slightly better and neutralise his slight advantage— not that WvW is often 1v1 anyway. People always come up with this scenario (most who don’t WvW), but that is one of the rarest scenarios in WvW.

It’s difficult to just walk up and faceroll someone just because of a slight stat advantage. If you kite, fight intelligently, learn the enemy’s moves, and are patient, you can beat just about anyone.

He can’t kill you if he can’t really touch you.

Problem is not everyone is intelligent as you think and its easier said then done.

IndigoSundown.5419:

Vayne.8563:

MikaHR.1978:

Vayne.8563:

JK Arrow.7102:

Vayne.8563:

So you ground out stuff. And you were happy to ground out stuff.

I got the max titles for the skills so I could have BIS skills on many characters including Sunspear, Lightbringer, Norn, Asura, Deldrimor and Ebon Vanguard.

And if you say those skills didn’t mean a whole lot more to GW 1 PvE than BIS gear here, I’d say you were dead wrong. Do you know why Anet limited those skills to 3 per skill bar? Because even with three you were too OP to play normal content. If you could have 5 or 6 of those skills you’d be unbeatable.

So you say over and over again my gear was the best, but your skills weren’t. And yet somehow that’s okay with you. The question is why are skills and grinding out that different from gear.

I say it’s in your head.

I didn’t completely answer your question when you asked me the same thing so I thought about it a bit more.

The biggest difference I see between the EotN skills and Ascended gear is that the skills did not replace something that players previously did or earned. They did not make anything else purchased obsolete. While some people may feel Exotics are cheap and easy to obtain, not everyone feels that way and is one of the reasons they may complain about the added vertical progression.

Another thing is that the PvE skills were named that because they were not allowed in any form of PvP. That is also not the case for Ascended gear and is why some of the WvW crowd is upset. Especially as that gear was not available at the same time in that game mode.

The last thing that came to mind is that GW1 was very dependent on specific builds. Some builds took advantage of PvE skills, others did not. Gear is not optional. Everyone has to wear it. It will affect every event, challenge, build decision, etc. Many outcomes and decisions are impacted by a gear change.

I’ll see if I can stir up any additional thoughts.

Anet seperated PvP into WvW and SPvP and said, from the very beginning, WvW was never meant to be balanced. That’s why gear is allowed in WvW.

I don’t think exotics are so expensive that it’s such an issue that we have to replace them…particularly because the content doesn’t require it to be replaced.

As for the skills in Guild Wars 1…they were still more neccesary (or at least they’ll make a bigger difference in the long term, than ascended weapons will.

Thats why youll see “transended” weapons next year. Its a gear tremill, no point in denying it.

Sorry but without the content requiring the upgrade it’s not a treadmill. If I don’t need that gear to play the game…then it’s not a treadmill.

I played Rift. I needed a specific amount of focus to queue for a dungeon. Not to beat it…to queue for it.

That’s why I say it’s not a treadmill. In games with gear treadmills there’s a new tier of gear every 3-4 months. If Anet introduced a tier of gear every year and a half, slowly in stages, I wouldn’t call it a treadmill.

I would. Because one treadmill is set at a shallower incline than the other one does not make it “not a treadmill.” People get on real treadmills not because they want to go somewhere, but because they want a result — usually, cardio. A lot of them dislike the process (reading or listening to music to distract themselves), but they want the result.

It’s not about needing the gear, either. It’s about keeping the players who can go to other games to feed their playstyle, while hoping that the ones who don’t want this crap will stay anyway, because there’s nowhere else to go. Don’t you defend so many aspects of GW2 so vehemently because this game gives you enjoyment you cannot find in other games? So, you don’t value having BiS gear. There are people who do.

But a treadmill, by definition, never ends. So if legendary is the final tier, then it can’t be a treadmill, because it’s final. That’s a definition.

You can call a bird a stone, but a bird isn’t a stone.

Vayne.8563:

IndigoSundown.5419:

Vayne.8563:

MikaHR.1978:

Vayne.8563:

JK Arrow.7102:

Vayne.8563:

So you ground out stuff. And you were happy to ground out stuff.

I got the max titles for the skills so I could have BIS skills on many characters including Sunspear, Lightbringer, Norn, Asura, Deldrimor and Ebon Vanguard.

And if you say those skills didn’t mean a whole lot more to GW 1 PvE than BIS gear here, I’d say you were dead wrong. Do you know why Anet limited those skills to 3 per skill bar? Because even with three you were too OP to play normal content. If you could have 5 or 6 of those skills you’d be unbeatable.

So you say over and over again my gear was the best, but your skills weren’t. And yet somehow that’s okay with you. The question is why are skills and grinding out that different from gear.

I say it’s in your head.

I didn’t completely answer your question when you asked me the same thing so I thought about it a bit more.

The biggest difference I see between the EotN skills and Ascended gear is that the skills did not replace something that players previously did or earned. They did not make anything else purchased obsolete. While some people may feel Exotics are cheap and easy to obtain, not everyone feels that way and is one of the reasons they may complain about the added vertical progression.

Another thing is that the PvE skills were named that because they were not allowed in any form of PvP. That is also not the case for Ascended gear and is why some of the WvW crowd is upset. Especially as that gear was not available at the same time in that game mode.

The last thing that came to mind is that GW1 was very dependent on specific builds. Some builds took advantage of PvE skills, others did not. Gear is not optional. Everyone has to wear it. It will affect every event, challenge, build decision, etc. Many outcomes and decisions are impacted by a gear change.

I’ll see if I can stir up any additional thoughts.

Anet seperated PvP into WvW and SPvP and said, from the very beginning, WvW was never meant to be balanced. That’s why gear is allowed in WvW.

I don’t think exotics are so expensive that it’s such an issue that we have to replace them…particularly because the content doesn’t require it to be replaced.

As for the skills in Guild Wars 1…they were still more neccesary (or at least they’ll make a bigger difference in the long term, than ascended weapons will.

Thats why youll see “transended” weapons next year. Its a gear tremill, no point in denying it.

Sorry but without the content requiring the upgrade it’s not a treadmill. If I don’t need that gear to play the game…then it’s not a treadmill.

I played Rift. I needed a specific amount of focus to queue for a dungeon. Not to beat it…to queue for it.

That’s why I say it’s not a treadmill. In games with gear treadmills there’s a new tier of gear every 3-4 months. If Anet introduced a tier of gear every year and a half, slowly in stages, I wouldn’t call it a treadmill.

I would. Because one treadmill is set at a shallower incline than the other one does not make it “not a treadmill.” People get on real treadmills not because they want to go somewhere, but because they want a result — usually, cardio. A lot of them dislike the process (reading or listening to music to distract themselves), but they want the result.

It’s not about needing the gear, either. It’s about keeping the players who can go to other games to feed their playstyle, while hoping that the ones who don’t want this crap will stay anyway, because there’s nowhere else to go. Don’t you defend so many aspects of GW2 so vehemently because this game gives you enjoyment you cannot find in other games? So, you don’t value having BiS gear. There are people who do.

But a treadmill, by definition, never ends. So if legendary is the final tier, then it can’t be a treadmill, because it’s final. That’s a definition.

You can call a bird a stone, but a bird isn’t a stone.

nice analogy

SplendidDust of AncientSuns.8453:

MandJ.8965:

SplendidDust of AncientSuns.8453:

xephire.8324:

SplendidDust of AncientSuns.8453:

I tear up people in wvw who are undoubtedly geared with ascended trinkets and full exo when I’m in my under leveled char. Ascended trinkets aren’t going to break anything. Period. Skill determines the outcome, not the gear. I can’t believe the outrage people are in over this.

No matter how you rationalize it, all you whiners and wannabe developers will never get everything you want. Don’t like it? Go play something else. If you’re gonna stay than kitten up.

Post a video of you tearing up a fully geared and lvled guy on forum with normal white gear then i believe you.

He’s level 67 and no he’s not in white gear. My point being, Ascended gear with 10% better stats isn’t going to break the game or set the skill bar any higher. It’s based on player knowledge, skill and experience.

And no, I’m not making a video to prove it.

Hahaha. Do you want to make a battle? You with yellow gear and i am full exotic? Winner gets 500 gold.
When two guys fight against, one in full Ascended gear one in full exotic and both have the same skill, same class and so on, the full exotic will lose.

Honestly, if you want to show off the size of your E-wiener, that’s cool, but I don’t care.

If I was a betting man I would bet he would be “The Wiener.”

Geemo.6018:

One of the major reasons that Gw2 has only reached a 400k concurrency is due to not having tanks and healers. There are literally millions of mmo players who enjoy tanking and healing and will never buy this game because of that.

The legions of MMOs with groups begging for a tank and/or healer would suggest otherwise.

chemiclord.3978:

Geemo.6018:

One of the major reasons that Gw2 has only reached a 400k concurrency is due to not having tanks and healers. There are literally millions of mmo players who enjoy tanking and healing and will never buy this game because of that.

The legions of MMOs with groups begging for a tank and/or healer would suggest otherwise.

I love tank and healing and cc control, it makes the game more interesting……..

Krustydog.3072:

SplendidDust of AncientSuns.8453:

MandJ.8965:

SplendidDust of AncientSuns.8453:

xephire.8324:

SplendidDust of AncientSuns.8453:

I tear up people in wvw who are undoubtedly geared with ascended trinkets and full exo when I’m in my under leveled char. Ascended trinkets aren’t going to break anything. Period. Skill determines the outcome, not the gear. I can’t believe the outrage people are in over this.

No matter how you rationalize it, all you whiners and wannabe developers will never get everything you want. Don’t like it? Go play something else. If you’re gonna stay than kitten up.

Post a video of you tearing up a fully geared and lvled guy on forum with normal white gear then i believe you.

He’s level 67 and no he’s not in white gear. My point being, Ascended gear with 10% better stats isn’t going to break the game or set the skill bar any higher. It’s based on player knowledge, skill and experience.

And no, I’m not making a video to prove it.

Hahaha. Do you want to make a battle? You with yellow gear and i am full exotic? Winner gets 500 gold.
When two guys fight against, one in full Ascended gear one in full exotic and both have the same skill, same class and so on, the full exotic will lose.

Honestly, if you want to show off the size of your E-wiener, that’s cool, but I don’t care.

If I was a betting man I would bet he would be “The Wiener.”

Goes to show he’s all talk

zenleto.6179:

Chuo.4238:

All I can say at this point that we’ve been arguing amongst ourselves over months and multiple threads and issues, and ArenaNet have remained silent.

They’ve an agenda that we’ll not change. We waste our time and energy here; particular opinions are of no import.

Why the hell would anyone from Anet want to join in on any of the crap on these forums?

Though we don’t know who people are in an unofficial capacity…

Maybe because we are the customers that pay their bills?

Lambent.6375:

Nah, not a joke post, the only thing I’m worried about is how often chest will give these t7 mats, and how many, and how often an exotic will produce dark matter.

10 Dark matter
500 Pile of Bloodstone Dust
500 Empyreal Shard
500 Dragonite Ore

Maybe I’m missing some things, but the rest of the stuff seems to just require you to make daily trips to low to high level zones, and gather all the metal and wood you see, or just gather them as you’re passing, and doing something else, or if you have the gold, buy them on the tp.

So we don’t know how much dust/shards/ore will drop from champs. 500 sounds like a lot though, if we get between say 0 and 5 per champ it will be completely unacceptable.

Wow.. so each ascended weapon is going to cost at least 100g to make eh… I was just estimating when I said getting the mats for ascended is 1/8th the way to legendary so you may as well skip it but heck, I was right… ditch the ascended, get the legendary. At least you’ll have changeable stats and know you’re future proofed…

Vayne.8563:

But a treadmill, by definition, never ends. So if legendary is the final tier, then it can’t be a treadmill, because it’s final. That’s a definition.

You can call a bird a stone, but a bird isn’t a stone.

Legendary is not a gear tier. Legendary is a prestige skin. Legendary stats are not different than the stats of whatever the highest tier is. Thus, it cannot be thought of as a final tier. If ANet never adds another tier beyond Ascended, then Ascended would be the highest tier. We don’t yet know if that will or won’t be the case.

No definition of treadmill that I can find includes “never ends” as part of it. A treadmill does include an endless belt as one of its components. The belt is important to the treadmill’s function, but it is not the purpose of the treadmill.

That said, the function of a treadmill is to allow or cause the user to walk in place. However, the purpose of a treadmill is not to be “always on.” It is to power something or get health results. The purpose of a gear treadmill in an MMO is to promote the game’s longevity in the face of players who desire to play the game a lot. That is the purpose of Ascended.

Sometimes, people argue about the meaning of words to sidetrack from the real issues being discussed. I prefer to talk about purpose and intent rather than about whether a word that has been altered to fit a particular context is being used “properly” or not. The rapid evolution of words in popular culture means that their meaning cannot be set in stone. Thus, discussing the meanings of words is important in discourse so we know what each other is talking about. However, that discussion should be tangential to the real issues, rather than being used as a means to win an argument.

IndigoSundown.5419:

Vayne.8563:

But a treadmill, by definition, never ends. So if legendary is the final tier, then it can’t be a treadmill, because it’s final. That’s a definition.

You can call a bird a stone, but a bird isn’t a stone.

Legendary is not a gear tier. Legendary is a prestige skin. Legendary stats are not different than the stats of whatever the highest tier is. Thus, it cannot be thought of as a final tier. If ANet never adds another tier beyond Ascended, then Ascended would be the highest tier. We don’t yet know if that will or won’t be the case.

No definition of treadmill that I can find includes “never ends” as part of it. A treadmill does include an endless belt as one of its components. The belt is important to the treadmill’s function, but it is not the purpose of the treadmill.

That said, the function of a treadmill is to allow or cause the user to walk in place. However, the purpose of a treadmill is not to be “always on.” It is to power something or get health results. The purpose of a gear treadmill in an MMO is to promote the game’s longevity in the face of players who desire to play the game a lot. That is the purpose of Ascended.

Sometimes, people argue about the meaning of words to sidetrack from the real issues being discussed. I prefer to talk about purpose and intent rather than about whether a word that has been altered to fit a particular context is being used “properly” or not. The rapid evolution of words in popular culture means that their meaning cannot be set in stone. Thus, discussing the meanings of words is important in discourse so we know what each other is talking about. However, that discussion should be tangential to the real issues, rather than being used as a means to win an argument.

Legendary is a final tier, because Anet has said if you get a legendary it will be equal to the final tier of gear. I have a legendary trident on my necro and a legendary rifle on my engineer.

That means the day this new tier goes life, I have top tier gear without grinding or farming. You can say it’s not a tier all you want…but it works as a tier. And therefore, it’s not a treadmill, or wouldn’t be if ascended armor works the same way.

What exactly is there to destroy if they haven’t even got the opportunity to add anything?

IndigoSundown.5419:

Vayne.8563:

But a treadmill, by definition, never ends. So if legendary is the final tier, then it can’t be a treadmill, because it’s final. That’s a definition.

You can call a bird a stone, but a bird isn’t a stone.

Legendary is not a gear tier. Legendary is a prestige skin. Legendary stats are not different than the stats of whatever the highest tier is. Thus, it cannot be thought of as a final tier. If ANet never adds another tier beyond Ascended, then Ascended would be the highest tier. We don’t yet know if that will or won’t be the case.

No definition of treadmill that I can find includes “never ends” as part of it. A treadmill does include an endless belt as one of its components. The belt is important to the treadmill’s function, but it is not the purpose of the treadmill.

That said, the function of a treadmill is to allow or cause the user to walk in place. However, the purpose of a treadmill is not to be “always on.” It is to power something or get health results. The purpose of a gear treadmill in an MMO is to promote the game’s longevity in the face of players who desire to play the game a lot. That is the purpose of Ascended.

Sometimes, people argue about the meaning of words to sidetrack from the real issues being discussed. I prefer to talk about purpose and intent rather than about whether a word that has been altered to fit a particular context is being used “properly” or not. The rapid evolution of words in popular culture means that their meaning cannot be set in stone. Thus, discussing the meanings of words is important in discourse so we know what each other is talking about. However, that discussion should be tangential to the real issues, rather than being used as a means to win an argument.

Gear treadmills serve two purposes in MMO’s that implement them as a game mechanic.

1. Progression- Allows the player to “feel” as if they are becoming more powerful compared to what they were before they had the new gear. Bigger numbers.

2. Content gating- Content can only be completed reliably by having a certain gear score or dps/armor/heal rating attributed to having said gear.

GW2 currently only follows the first purpose as implemented by game mechanics. Any current content can be completed (besides fractals) reliably with exotic or lower gear.

It is a treadmill in the sense of progression, but not in the sense of content gating. Any content gating is put in place by the players themselves, not actual game mechanics.

Whether this stays true in the future (the new Teq fight seems a lot like a dps race, and may be turned into a gear encounter instead of a skill encounter) remains to be seen.

And Legendary would be a tier of gear considering it would be a final step, with never having to invest in gear again after acquiring it.

Vayne.8563:

IndigoSundown.5419:

Vayne.8563:

But a treadmill, by definition, never ends. So if legendary is the final tier, then it can’t be a treadmill, because it’s final. That’s a definition.

You can call a bird a stone, but a bird isn’t a stone.

Legendary is not a gear tier. Legendary is a prestige skin. Legendary stats are not different than the stats of whatever the highest tier is. Thus, it cannot be thought of as a final tier. If ANet never adds another tier beyond Ascended, then Ascended would be the highest tier. We don’t yet know if that will or won’t be the case.

No definition of treadmill that I can find includes “never ends” as part of it. A treadmill does include an endless belt as one of its components. The belt is important to the treadmill’s function, but it is not the purpose of the treadmill.

That said, the function of a treadmill is to allow or cause the user to walk in place. However, the purpose of a treadmill is not to be “always on.” It is to power something or get health results. The purpose of a gear treadmill in an MMO is to promote the game’s longevity in the face of players who desire to play the game a lot. That is the purpose of Ascended.

Sometimes, people argue about the meaning of words to sidetrack from the real issues being discussed. I prefer to talk about purpose and intent rather than about whether a word that has been altered to fit a particular context is being used “properly” or not. The rapid evolution of words in popular culture means that their meaning cannot be set in stone. Thus, discussing the meanings of words is important in discourse so we know what each other is talking about. However, that discussion should be tangential to the real issues, rather than being used as a means to win an argument.

Legendary is a final tier, because Anet has said if you get a legendary it will be equal to the final tier of gear. I have a legendary trident on my necro and a legendary rifle on my engineer.

That means the day this new tier goes life, I have top tier gear without grinding or farming. You can say it’s not a tier all you want…but it works as a tier. And therefore, it’s not a treadmill, or wouldn’t be if ascended armor works the same way.

I see you ignored the rest of my post. Nice dodge of the real issues in favor of more arguments about semantics.

Krustydog.3072:

zenleto.6179:

Chuo.4238:

All I can say at this point that we’ve been arguing amongst ourselves over months and multiple threads and issues, and ArenaNet have remained silent.

They’ve an agenda that we’ll not change. We waste our time and energy here; particular opinions are of no import.

Why the hell would anyone from Anet want to join in on any of the crap on these forums?

Though we don’t know who people are in an unofficial capacity…

Maybe because we are the customers that pay their bills?

lol yeah sure. And because I pay taxes, and civil servants are paid from those taxes, I’m their boss? Right?

I’ve seen a dev drop into a complaints thread and it only increased the complaining, whining, speculation, finger pointing and general negativity. I can’t remember who it was but I doubt he’ll be doing again in a hurry, whether we keep him employed or not.

MandJ.8965:

Ascended Weapons.. ascended Gear.. buff for more HP and other stats in WvW..

@Arena-Net.:
Please do not destroy this game!Please no things like in World of Warcraft, no itemspiral!!! Guild Wars 2 is a wonderful game for PvP (WvWvW), because there is no itemspiral, no buff you get when you play more PvP (WvWvW) than others. It’s a wonderful game because you need skill! And thats why I play this game. I have a chance when I play three times a week against players who played every day five hours. And that makes Guild Wars 2 be one of the best MMO’s ever! So please Arena Net, don’t destroy the game with those alterations!
Why do you tout with this, and now you want to take it in the game? The reasons below were the reasons to buy this game. And now you change it? In my opinion the game will be destroyed with this.
So guys, don’t let this happen. If some guys want an itemspiral than why you play GW2? Make no sense. Arena Net, you had created a game which is different than normal MMO’s. And thats why I love it.
And whats next? Healers and Tanks? You cannot advertise with something, and then after a Year add things you never want to!

At least, sorry for my bad english :P

I totally agree with you and i hope this isn´t the end for this beautiful game..
Guys, if u defend what a-net is doing with ascended equipment and the treadmill which is ongoing slowly, pls… go and play stupid games like WoW and sh..-.-
I am sure ascended is not the end of the item progression

We should thank a-net and all players, who were crying about endcontent, better stats & stuff like that, for this bullsh..

If u wanna play a world of warcraft, then please do us a favour and GO to world of warcraft godd…it!!

IndigoSundown.5419:

Vayne.8563:

IndigoSundown.5419:

Vayne.8563:

But a treadmill, by definition, never ends. So if legendary is the final tier, then it can’t be a treadmill, because it’s final. That’s a definition.

You can call a bird a stone, but a bird isn’t a stone.

Legendary is not a gear tier. Legendary is a prestige skin. Legendary stats are not different than the stats of whatever the highest tier is. Thus, it cannot be thought of as a final tier. If ANet never adds another tier beyond Ascended, then Ascended would be the highest tier. We don’t yet know if that will or won’t be the case.

No definition of treadmill that I can find includes “never ends” as part of it. A treadmill does include an endless belt as one of its components. The belt is important to the treadmill’s function, but it is not the purpose of the treadmill.

That said, the function of a treadmill is to allow or cause the user to walk in place. However, the purpose of a treadmill is not to be “always on.” It is to power something or get health results. The purpose of a gear treadmill in an MMO is to promote the game’s longevity in the face of players who desire to play the game a lot. That is the purpose of Ascended.

Sometimes, people argue about the meaning of words to sidetrack from the real issues being discussed. I prefer to talk about purpose and intent rather than about whether a word that has been altered to fit a particular context is being used “properly” or not. The rapid evolution of words in popular culture means that their meaning cannot be set in stone. Thus, discussing the meanings of words is important in discourse so we know what each other is talking about. However, that discussion should be tangential to the real issues, rather than being used as a means to win an argument.

Legendary is a final tier, because Anet has said if you get a legendary it will be equal to the final tier of gear. I have a legendary trident on my necro and a legendary rifle on my engineer.

That means the day this new tier goes life, I have top tier gear without grinding or farming. You can say it’s not a tier all you want…but it works as a tier. And therefore, it’s not a treadmill, or wouldn’t be if ascended armor works the same way.

I see you ignored the rest of my post. Nice dodge of the real issues in favor of more arguments about semantics.

Okay I didn’t think I’d have to respond to the rest of it, because it makes no sense.

What is a treadmill? It’s something you walk on and you get nowhere. Why do you get nowhere…because it’s just the illusion of progression. This is why it’s called a treadmill. By definition it has no end, because companies keep coming out with gear. I’m pretty sure that most people understand that.

A treadmill isn’t doing something until you get to the end, because if you can get to the end, it’s not a treadmill.

I didn’t have a lot of time when I responded to the first part of your post, and I have more time now…so explain to me.

How is a treadmill something the stops. Because saying the definition doesn’t include endless blows my mind completely. That’s the whole point of using a treadmill as an analogy. If they wanted an end they’d have used an escalator.

Vayne.8563:

IndigoSundown.5419:

Vayne.8563:

IndigoSundown.5419:

Vayne.8563:

But a treadmill, by definition, never ends. So if legendary is the final tier, then it can’t be a treadmill, because it’s final. That’s a definition.

You can call a bird a stone, but a bird isn’t a stone.

Legendary is not a gear tier. Legendary is a prestige skin. Legendary stats are not different than the stats of whatever the highest tier is. Thus, it cannot be thought of as a final tier. If ANet never adds another tier beyond Ascended, then Ascended would be the highest tier. We don’t yet know if that will or won’t be the case.

No definition of treadmill that I can find includes “never ends” as part of it. A treadmill does include an endless belt as one of its components. The belt is important to the treadmill’s function, but it is not the purpose of the treadmill.

That said, the function of a treadmill is to allow or cause the user to walk in place. However, the purpose of a treadmill is not to be “always on.” It is to power something or get health results. The purpose of a gear treadmill in an MMO is to promote the game’s longevity in the face of players who desire to play the game a lot. That is the purpose of Ascended.

Sometimes, people argue about the meaning of words to sidetrack from the real issues being discussed. I prefer to talk about purpose and intent rather than about whether a word that has been altered to fit a particular context is being used “properly” or not. The rapid evolution of words in popular culture means that their meaning cannot be set in stone. Thus, discussing the meanings of words is important in discourse so we know what each other is talking about. However, that discussion should be tangential to the real issues, rather than being used as a means to win an argument.

Legendary is a final tier, because Anet has said if you get a legendary it will be equal to the final tier of gear. I have a legendary trident on my necro and a legendary rifle on my engineer.

That means the day this new tier goes life, I have top tier gear without grinding or farming. You can say it’s not a tier all you want…but it works as a tier. And therefore, it’s not a treadmill, or wouldn’t be if ascended armor works the same way.

I see you ignored the rest of my post. Nice dodge of the real issues in favor of more arguments about semantics.

Okay I didn’t think I’d have to respond to the rest of it, because it makes no sense.

What is a treadmill? It’s something you walk on and you get nowhere. Why do you get nowhere…because it’s just the illusion of progression. This is why it’s called a treadmill. By definition it has no end, because companies keep coming out with gear. I’m pretty sure that most people understand that.

A treadmill isn’t doing something until you get to the end, because if you can get to the end, it’s not a treadmill.

I didn’t have a lot of time when I responded to the first part of your post, and I have more time now…so explain to me.

How is a treadmill something the stops. Because saying the definition doesn’t include endless blows my mind completely. That’s the whole point of using a treadmill as an analogy. If they wanted an end they’d have used an escalator.

Treadmill is used because it perfectly fits in WoW and its clones and in GW2 now.

You get a lot of crap thrown at you and you go nowhere just walking in place. But if you stop walking you fall off.

You should get a bit more experience in MMOs before trying to discuss.

But then ignorance is bliss for you.

wow big kittenin deal, i already have ascended trinkets and an ascended weapon isn’t gonna make too much of a difference.

and with all the crafting you have to do to get it i’m not even gonna bother getting ascended weapons. i’ll stick with exotics and still spank scrubs with dual legendaries in wvw.

Barret.4095:

wow big kittenin deal, i already have ascended trinkets and an ascended weapon isn’t gonna make too much of a difference.

and with all the crafting you have to do to get it i’m not even gonna bother getting ascended weapons. i’ll stick with exotics and still spank scrubs with dual legendaries in wvw.

Ye, seems that “spanking scrubs” is the pinnacle of your game.

MikaHR.1978:

Vayne.8563:

IndigoSundown.5419:

Vayne.8563:

IndigoSundown.5419:

Vayne.8563:

But a treadmill, by definition, never ends. So if legendary is the final tier, then it can’t be a treadmill, because it’s final. That’s a definition.

You can call a bird a stone, but a bird isn’t a stone.

Legendary is not a gear tier. Legendary is a prestige skin. Legendary stats are not different than the stats of whatever the highest tier is. Thus, it cannot be thought of as a final tier. If ANet never adds another tier beyond Ascended, then Ascended would be the highest tier. We don’t yet know if that will or won’t be the case.

No definition of treadmill that I can find includes “never ends” as part of it. A treadmill does include an endless belt as one of its components. The belt is important to the treadmill’s function, but it is not the purpose of the treadmill.

That said, the function of a treadmill is to allow or cause the user to walk in place. However, the purpose of a treadmill is not to be “always on.” It is to power something or get health results. The purpose of a gear treadmill in an MMO is to promote the game’s longevity in the face of players who desire to play the game a lot. That is the purpose of Ascended.

Sometimes, people argue about the meaning of words to sidetrack from the real issues being discussed. I prefer to talk about purpose and intent rather than about whether a word that has been altered to fit a particular context is being used “properly” or not. The rapid evolution of words in popular culture means that their meaning cannot be set in stone. Thus, discussing the meanings of words is important in discourse so we know what each other is talking about. However, that discussion should be tangential to the real issues, rather than being used as a means to win an argument.

Legendary is a final tier, because Anet has said if you get a legendary it will be equal to the final tier of gear. I have a legendary trident on my necro and a legendary rifle on my engineer.

That means the day this new tier goes life, I have top tier gear without grinding or farming. You can say it’s not a tier all you want…but it works as a tier. And therefore, it’s not a treadmill, or wouldn’t be if ascended armor works the same way.

I see you ignored the rest of my post. Nice dodge of the real issues in favor of more arguments about semantics.

Okay I didn’t think I’d have to respond to the rest of it, because it makes no sense.

What is a treadmill? It’s something you walk on and you get nowhere. Why do you get nowhere…because it’s just the illusion of progression. This is why it’s called a treadmill. By definition it has no end, because companies keep coming out with gear. I’m pretty sure that most people understand that.

A treadmill isn’t doing something until you get to the end, because if you can get to the end, it’s not a treadmill.

I didn’t have a lot of time when I responded to the first part of your post, and I have more time now…so explain to me.

How is a treadmill something the stops. Because saying the definition doesn’t include endless blows my mind completely. That’s the whole point of using a treadmill as an analogy. If they wanted an end they’d have used an escalator.

Treadmill is used because it perfectly fits in WoW and its clones and in GW2 now.

You get a lot of crap thrown at you and you go nowhere just walking in place. But if you stop walking you fall off.

You should get a bit more experience in MMOs before trying to discuss.

But then ignorance is bliss for you.

More insults from a guy who doesn’t have a valid point to make.

I have people in my guild who aren’t on the gear treadmill. They’re not on the achievement point treadmill. They log in, they do a few things, they log out. Easy right.

Some of those people have run the occasional dungeon with me, including Arah.

I’d love to see this in other games. Someone that doesn’t log in, doesn’t gear up, and tries to run the current raid or even the current dungeon. It’s not possible in most games…it is possible here.

With the exception of high level fractals, which were designed for grinders specifically, can you explain to me what content is denied people wearing rares. I’d really like to know.

Vayne.8563:

MikaHR.1978:

Vayne.8563:

IndigoSundown.5419:

Vayne.8563:

IndigoSundown.5419:

Vayne.8563:

But a treadmill, by definition, never ends. So if legendary is the final tier, then it can’t be a treadmill, because it’s final. That’s a definition.

You can call a bird a stone, but a bird isn’t a stone.

Legendary is not a gear tier. Legendary is a prestige skin. Legendary stats are not different than the stats of whatever the highest tier is. Thus, it cannot be thought of as a final tier. If ANet never adds another tier beyond Ascended, then Ascended would be the highest tier. We don’t yet know if that will or won’t be the case.

No definition of treadmill that I can find includes “never ends” as part of it. A treadmill does include an endless belt as one of its components. The belt is important to the treadmill’s function, but it is not the purpose of the treadmill.

That said, the function of a treadmill is to allow or cause the user to walk in place. However, the purpose of a treadmill is not to be “always on.” It is to power something or get health results. The purpose of a gear treadmill in an MMO is to promote the game’s longevity in the face of players who desire to play the game a lot. That is the purpose of Ascended.

Sometimes, people argue about the meaning of words to sidetrack from the real issues being discussed. I prefer to talk about purpose and intent rather than about whether a word that has been altered to fit a particular context is being used “properly” or not. The rapid evolution of words in popular culture means that their meaning cannot be set in stone. Thus, discussing the meanings of words is important in discourse so we know what each other is talking about. However, that discussion should be tangential to the real issues, rather than being used as a means to win an argument.

Legendary is a final tier, because Anet has said if you get a legendary it will be equal to the final tier of gear. I have a legendary trident on my necro and a legendary rifle on my engineer.

That means the day this new tier goes life, I have top tier gear without grinding or farming. You can say it’s not a tier all you want…but it works as a tier. And therefore, it’s not a treadmill, or wouldn’t be if ascended armor works the same way.

I see you ignored the rest of my post. Nice dodge of the real issues in favor of more arguments about semantics.

Okay I didn’t think I’d have to respond to the rest of it, because it makes no sense.

What is a treadmill? It’s something you walk on and you get nowhere. Why do you get nowhere…because it’s just the illusion of progression. This is why it’s called a treadmill. By definition it has no end, because companies keep coming out with gear. I’m pretty sure that most people understand that.

A treadmill isn’t doing something until you get to the end, because if you can get to the end, it’s not a treadmill.

I didn’t have a lot of time when I responded to the first part of your post, and I have more time now…so explain to me.

How is a treadmill something the stops. Because saying the definition doesn’t include endless blows my mind completely. That’s the whole point of using a treadmill as an analogy. If they wanted an end they’d have used an escalator.

Treadmill is used because it perfectly fits in WoW and its clones and in GW2 now.

You get a lot of crap thrown at you and you go nowhere just walking in place. But if you stop walking you fall off.

You should get a bit more experience in MMOs before trying to discuss.

But then ignorance is bliss for you.

More insults from a guy who doesn’t have a valid point to make.

I have people in my guild who aren’t on the gear treadmill. They’re not on the achievement point treadmill. They log in, they do a few things, they log out. Easy right.

Some of those people have run the occasional dungeon with me, including Arah.

I’d love to see this in other games. Someone that doesn’t log in, doesn’t gear up, and tries to run the current raid or even the current dungeon. It’s not possible in most games…it is possible here.

With the exception of high level fractals, which were designed for grinders specifically, can you explain to me what content is denied people wearing rares. I’d really like to know.

“With the exception…blah blah blah”

In raid centric games you can run pretty much anything casually….with the exception of latest raids.

All the games you mention have all the things you mention. Games have evolved quite a bit, in fact most of them do it much better than GW2.

Warning: Level of ignorance reaching critical level

zenleto.6179:

Chuo.4238:

All I can say at this point that we’ve been arguing amongst ourselves over months and multiple threads and issues, and ArenaNet have remained silent.

They’ve an agenda that we’ll not change. We waste our time and energy here; particular opinions are of no import.

Why the hell would anyone from Anet want to join in on any of the crap on these forums?

Though we don’t know who people are in an unofficial capacity…

lol true, I’ve been suspicious of one in particular for a while now

MikaHR.1978:

Vayne.8563:

MikaHR.1978:

Vayne.8563:

IndigoSundown.5419:

Vayne.8563:

IndigoSundown.5419:

Vayne.8563:

But a treadmill, by definition, never ends. So if legendary is the final tier, then it can’t be a treadmill, because it’s final. That’s a definition.

You can call a bird a stone, but a bird isn’t a stone.

Legendary is not a gear tier. Legendary is a prestige skin. Legendary stats are not different than the stats of whatever the highest tier is. Thus, it cannot be thought of as a final tier. If ANet never adds another tier beyond Ascended, then Ascended would be the highest tier. We don’t yet know if that will or won’t be the case.

No definition of treadmill that I can find includes “never ends” as part of it. A treadmill does include an endless belt as one of its components. The belt is important to the treadmill’s function, but it is not the purpose of the treadmill.

That said, the function of a treadmill is to allow or cause the user to walk in place. However, the purpose of a treadmill is not to be “always on.” It is to power something or get health results. The purpose of a gear treadmill in an MMO is to promote the game’s longevity in the face of players who desire to play the game a lot. That is the purpose of Ascended.

Snip

Legendary is a final tier, because Anet has said if you get a legendary it will be equal to the final tier of gear. I have a legendary trident on my necro and a legendary rifle on my engineer.

That means the day this new tier goes life, I have top tier gear without grinding or farming. You can say it’s not a tier all you want…but it works as a tier. And therefore, it’s not a treadmill, or wouldn’t be if ascended armor works the same way.

I see you ignored the rest of my post. Nice dodge of the real issues in favor of more arguments about semantics.

Okay I didn’t think I’d have to respond to the rest of it, because it makes no sense.

What is a treadmill? It’s something you walk on and you get nowhere. Why do you get nowhere…because it’s just the illusion of progression. This is why it’s called a treadmill. By definition it has no end, because companies keep coming out with gear. I’m pretty sure that most people understand that.

A treadmill isn’t doing something until you get to the end, because if you can get to the end, it’s not a treadmill.

I didn’t have a lot of time when I responded to the first part of your post, and I have more time now…so explain to me.

How is a treadmill something the stops. Because saying the definition doesn’t include endless blows my mind completely. That’s the whole point of using a treadmill as an analogy. If they wanted an end they’d have used an escalator.

Treadmill is used because it perfectly fits in WoW and its clones and in GW2 now.

You get a lot of crap thrown at you and you go nowhere just walking in place. But if you stop walking you fall off.

You should get a bit more experience in MMOs before trying to discuss.

But then ignorance is bliss for you.

More insults from a guy who doesn’t have a valid point to make.

I have people in my guild who aren’t on the gear treadmill. They’re not on the achievement point treadmill. They log in, they do a few things, they log out. Easy right.

Some of those people have run the occasional dungeon with me, including Arah.

I’d love to see this in other games. Someone that doesn’t log in, doesn’t gear up, and tries to run the current raid or even the current dungeon. It’s not possible in most games…it is possible here.

With the exception of high level fractals, which were designed for grinders specifically, can you explain to me what content is denied people wearing rares. I’d really like to know.

“With the exeption…blah blah blah”

All the games you mention have all the things you mention.

Simply put, you’re wrong. There are 8 dungeons in this game and every one of them can be done in rares…including every explorable path. Every boss in the open world can be done in rares. SPvP has nothing to do with your gear so that can be done. And even WvW, many people run around in rares.

And then we have the fractals. And yes, you can do the fractals up to level 20 with no agony resistance whatsoever. So if you want to see what the fractals are like you can play them. You can play them over and over again at lower levels. It’s only an issue if you want to do higher levels, but get this. The stuff you need to do level 20 fractals you can get from the fractals. It’s absolutely self-contained and doesn’t affect any other dungeon.

Now what MMRPG can you tell me is like that. Name one.

Imo item spiral is not especially a bad thing. Only if you time gate it. Players should be rewarded for their hard work and not for logging in every day.

;Vayne.8563:

Simply put, you’re wrong. There are 8 dungeons in this game and every one of them can be done in rares…including every explorable path. Every boss in the open world can be done in rares. SPvP has nothing to do with your gear so that can be done. And even WvW, many people run around in rares.

And then we have the fractals. And yes, you can do the fractals up to level 20 with no agony resistance whatsoever. So if you want to see what the fractals are like you can play them. You can play them over and over again at lower levels. It’s only an issue if you want to do higher levels, but get this. The stuff you need to do level 20 fractals you can get from the fractals. It’s absolutely self-contained and doesn’t affect any other dungeon.

Now what MMRPG can you tell me is like that. Name one.

You see, your lack of experience shows. Every MMO released in last 5 years had dungeons (even raids) playable in “greens”.

Please, refrain from posting just for the sake of posting.

I just don’t see much replayability in the game. Any content completed for the first time provides no draw for a second. Giving me more trinkets just for doing the same thing repeatedly won’t do much to change that. Lack of class variation coupled with an easy and forgiving gameworld don’t do much, either.

I blame Dark Souls, really. That game has spoiled me in challenge, aesthetics, and depth.

SSalp.6423:

Imo item spiral is not especially a bad thing. Only if you time gate it. Players should be rewarded for their hard work and not for logging in every day.

The concern is players becoming disinterested once they acquire said items.
The answer to that is to create interesting content.

The other concern is players gaining an ‘advantage’ ‘too early’.
The answer to that is to not create the advantage.

Smith.1826:

The concern is players becoming disinterested once they acquire said items.
The answer to that is to create interesting content.

The other concern is players gaining an ‘advantage’ ‘too early’.
The answer to that is to not create the advantage.

I’ve been asking for interesting content and a level playing field ever since it became obvious that they took everything I loved about Guild Wars and threw it in the bin.

I’m having a really difficult time understanding why they’re so obsessed with making this gear grind, time-gating, and a very rickety Living Story and refusing to implement more interesting content, and all those quality and polish things that players have been asking for over the past year.

Annoying things will keep people playing only so long. Fun things will keep them around for years. Did they forget everything they learned from Guild Wars? Or did they just not learn anything?

I have my theories, and they’re not pretty, but still…

MikaHR.1978:

;Vayne.8563:

Simply put, you’re wrong. There are 8 dungeons in this game and every one of them can be done in rares…including every explorable path. Every boss in the open world can be done in rares. SPvP has nothing to do with your gear so that can be done. And even WvW, many people run around in rares.

And then we have the fractals. And yes, you can do the fractals up to level 20 with no agony resistance whatsoever. So if you want to see what the fractals are like you can play them. You can play them over and over again at lower levels. It’s only an issue if you want to do higher levels, but get this. The stuff you need to do level 20 fractals you can get from the fractals. It’s absolutely self-contained and doesn’t affect any other dungeon.

Now what MMRPG can you tell me is like that. Name one.

You see, your lack of experience shows. Every MMO released in last 5 years had dungeons (even raids) playable in “greens”.

Please, refrain from posting just for the sake of posting.

Slow down, cowboy. Way to miss a point.

I didn’t say that other games didn’t have dungeons you could or couldn’t do in greens. In your desire to discredit but, you didn’t understand what I said.

Try again. Other games have dungeons you can’t do without having the required gear. That’s the point. Let me give you a crystal clear example.

In Rift, in order to queue for a specific dungeon, I had to have the requisite stats. In order to get those stats I had to do OTHER DUNGEONS. And in order to raid I had to do specific dungeons to get the gear for those raids. And you couldn’t skip a raid and do the next raid.

Now I have a friend on these very forums who played Rift since launch and then had to work a lot. He couldn’t raid with his buddies. Storm Legion came out and he couldn’t be there. His guild moved on. Leveled up. Geared up. They were raiding. He comes back to the game a couple of month later and he can’t get 20 people he needs to do the old raid from his own guild. He was leveling up by himself. He couldn’t do the new content because he didn’t have the gear.

Contrast to this guy in my guild who came back after a four month break and ran Arah with us.

There aren’t many games you can do that. Sure you can sit and do old content with lower level gear, but you need to gear up to do newer content and that’s the difference.

If you can’t see this, that’s okay. I’m sure most other people have already understood what I’ve been saying.

I"ll freely admit to being pretty critical of Anet on a lot of their design decisions and actions, but I for one welcome ascended gear. The bottom line is that exotics are far too easy to acquire, they’re essentially meaningless. Time gating Ascended gear may be annoying and in my onion not the best way to handle it, but at least ascended gear gives me a goal to work towards. People can panic and lose their kitten minds over whatever they think is a treadmill all they want, I’m a GW1 player, ascended gear is fine. A little vertical progression where its needed isn’t going to kill anyone, emphasis on little. The gap between exotics and ascended is smaller than the gap between rare and exotic.

HappyPrimes.3904:

I"ll freely admit to being pretty critical of Anet on a lot of their design decisions and actions, but I for one welcome ascended gear. The bottom line is that exotics are far too easy to acquire, they’re essentially meaningless. Time gating Ascended gear may be annoying and in my onion not the best way to handle it, but at least ascended gear gives me a goal to work towards. People can panic and lose their kitten minds over whatever they think is a treadmill all they want, I’m a GW1 player, ascended gear is fine. A little vertical progression where its needed isn’t going to kill anyone, emphasis on little. The gap between exotics and ascended is smaller than the gap between rare and exotic.

I see where you’re coming from. I’d just rather have something more interesting and fun to do than grind gear. I can get gear grind, and done better, in many other MMO’s.

VIVA LA REVOLUCION.

Or in other words… join the club of people who loved GW2 and got betrayed by Anet who loves grinding and made GW2 into WoW instead.

HappyPrimes.3904:

I"ll freely admit to being pretty critical of Anet on a lot of their design decisions and actions, but I for one welcome ascended gear. The bottom line is that exotics are far too easy to acquire, they’re essentially meaningless.

You mean just like the game was advertised and why most of the people bought the game?

And if i want vertical progression ill go to (back to) a game that does it much better (pretty much any other game).

And theres no such thing as “little vertical progression”

To All the Silly People who jump in when not knowing facts , here is a bit of confirmed news , the new gear will be available in W v W v W also from levelling/rewards etc so Stop Crying TY !!

Vayne.8563:

MikaHR.1978:

;Vayne.8563:

Simply put, you’re wrong. There are 8 dungeons in this game and every one of them can be done in rares…including every explorable path. Every boss in the open world can be done in rares. SPvP has nothing to do with your gear so that can be done. And even WvW, many people run around in rares.

And then we have the fractals. And yes, you can do the fractals up to level 20 with no agony resistance whatsoever. So if you want to see what the fractals are like you can play them. You can play them over and over again at lower levels. It’s only an issue if you want to do higher levels, but get this. The stuff you need to do level 20 fractals you can get from the fractals. It’s absolutely self-contained and doesn’t affect any other dungeon.

Now what MMRPG can you tell me is like that. Name one.

You see, your lack of experience shows. Every MMO released in last 5 years had dungeons (even raids) playable in “greens”.

Please, refrain from posting just for the sake of posting.

Slow down, cowboy. Way to miss a point.

I didn’t say that other games didn’t have dungeons you could or couldn’t do in greens. In your desire to discredit but, you didn’t understand what I said.

Try again. Other games have dungeons you can’t do without having the required gear. That’s the point. Let me give you a crystal clear example.

In Rift, in order to queue for a specific dungeon, I had to have the requisite stats. In order to get those stats I had to do OTHER DUNGEONS. And in order to raid I had to do specific dungeons to get the gear for those raids. And you couldn’t skip a raid and do the next raid.

Now I have a friend on these very forums who played Rift since launch and then had to work a lot. He couldn’t raid with his buddies. Storm Legion came out and he couldn’t be there. His guild moved on. Leveled up. Geared up. They were raiding. He comes back to the game a couple of month later and he can’t get 20 people he needs to do the old raid from his own guild. He was leveling up by himself. He couldn’t do the new content because he didn’t have the gear.

Contrast to this guy in my guild who came back after a four month break and ran Arah with us.

There aren’t many games you can do that. Sure you can sit and do old content with lower level gear, but you need to gear up to do newer content and that’s the difference.

If you can’t see this, that’s okay. I’m sure most other people have already understood what I’ve been saying.

You mean just like fractals.

Warning: ignorance reached critical level

Only thing your post is evidence is how crappy his guild is, nothing else. The only advice your friend need is to kick that guild and look for better one (one who takes care of their members just like we run low level fractals for our members, not because we enjoy it but because they cannot play without them and have to play catch up)

And, BTW, all dungeons and fractals are old content, been in game for a year now.

I on the other hand don’t mind changes. Hell if somebody play more than me, he deserves to have better stats than me. It’s not USSR where everybody is equal. If it’s in form of ascended gear I’m fine with that. Those things will be account bind so no pay to win also (some of ingredients will be buy-able but not all of the).

sAdam.5876:

I on the other hand don’t mind changes. Hell if somebody play more than me, he deserves to have better stats than me. It’s not USSR where everybody is equal. If it’s in form of ascended gear I’m fine with that. Those things will be account bind so no pay to win also (some of ingredients will be buy-able but not all of the).

So legendaries are P2W.