Guild Wars 2

MikaHR.1978:

sAdam.5876:

I on the other hand don’t mind changes. Hell if somebody play more than me, he deserves to have better stats than me. It’s not USSR where everybody is equal. If it’s in form of ascended gear I’m fine with that. Those things will be account bind so no pay to win also (some of ingredients will be buy-able but not all of the).

So legendaries are P2W.

Yes

Chuo.4238:

MikaHR.1978:

sAdam.5876:

I on the other hand don’t mind changes. Hell if somebody play more than me, he deserves to have better stats than me. It’s not USSR where everybody is equal. If it’s in form of ascended gear I’m fine with that. Those things will be account bind so no pay to win also (some of ingredients will be buy-able but not all of the).

So legendaries are P2W.

Yes

Definitely yes,YES,YESA!!!!

Chuo.4238:

MikaHR.1978:

sAdam.5876:

I on the other hand don’t mind changes. Hell if somebody play more than me, he deserves to have better stats than me. It’s not USSR where everybody is equal. If it’s in form of ascended gear I’m fine with that. Those things will be account bind so no pay to win also (some of ingredients will be buy-able but not all of the).

So legendaries are P2W.

Yes

Want to hear it from him since he went to elaborate how its “not P2W” without putting much thought in it.

Doubt well hear from him again though

MikaHR.1978:

sAdam.5876:

I on the other hand don’t mind changes. Hell if somebody play more than me, he deserves to have better stats than me. It’s not USSR where everybody is equal. If it’s in form of ascended gear I’m fine with that. Those things will be account bind so no pay to win also (some of ingredients will be buy-able but not all of the).

So legendaries are P2W.

Pretty much. Most people are annoyed about Ascended gear not Legendarily items. I like idea of legendaries, idea of them being sold on market not so much.

(some of ingredients will be buy-able) LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLO

sAdam.5876:

MikaHR.1978:

sAdam.5876:

I on the other hand don’t mind changes. Hell if somebody play more than me, he deserves to have better stats than me. It’s not USSR where everybody is equal. If it’s in form of ascended gear I’m fine with that. Those things will be account bind so no pay to win also (some of ingredients will be buy-able but not all of the).

So legendaries are P2W.

Pretty much. Most people are annoyed about Ascended gear not Legendarily items. I like idea of legendaries, idea of them being sold on market not so much.

BTW, all ingredients for ascended can be bought on TP except weapon itself, you can buy it all of TP and just craft 1 without any restrictions.

People first of all calm down. Second of all it feels like there is so much hate against stuff that objectivity is being thrown out of the window by a lot of people.

This is an MMO… an MMO is a game thats played by tons of people. Different People have different tastes. What one may feel makes an awesome MMO for another could be the main reason while they’ll never play that game.

So consider statements like Ascended gear has ruined this game in that context.

For us who liked the fact it was easy to get BiS in Gw1 and never had to worry about gear for subsequent years thats an easy one to relate too. Yet for some players that was also the reason why Gw1 was the worst game they’ve ever seen. Because of that Ascended gear might be whats “destroying” this game…. but not having Ascended gear would also be something that would “destroy” this game.

So Arenanet did something thats very wise.

They made Ascended gear take a long long time to get. They didnt do that by making it super grindly like legendary weapons, they made it take a long time by time gating stuff required to build it.

They also made it so Ascended doesnt provide big power boost. There is a reason why the gap between Exotic to Ascended is smaller then the gap between all the others. Not just that but dont forget equipment gives only 1/2 the stats so whatever the gap it is, its actually half of what it seems.

Some people are concerned that once those who want vertical progression finish gearing up they’ll ask for a new tier. Most likely yes. But those same people have been arguing how time gating is making acquiring ascended gear too long and how this is bad design on Arenanet’s part. This is where hate is in my opinion hindering good judgment. Time gating is there so that Arenanet arent forced to make a new tier or loose all vertical progression players any time soon. Not sure how crafting is gonna change anything but with the daily it took 225 days to fully gear up a single character. Multiplying that with 4 alts it would be like 3 years before we faced that problem. I understand that people want this done and forgotten about but think of the repercussions. If you can be done quickly so will those who want vertical progression and what then? As it stands, the longer it takes to acquire a full ascended set the better. Because its just one tier its entirely optional so there is no big deal not having it already. And those who say otherwise please note that we have played the game effectively and grumbled how easy it is for a whole year without an ascended weapon or any other armor piece. Now that we’re getting ascended weapons tomorrow the game doesnt suddenly become too hard without having one.

My point is be careful what you wish for because in some of the posts the wishes I’ve seen contradicted each other.

MikaHR.1978:

Chuo.4238:

MikaHR.1978:

sAdam.5876:

I on the other hand don’t mind changes. Hell if somebody play more than me, he deserves to have better stats than me. It’s not USSR where everybody is equal. If it’s in form of ascended gear I’m fine with that. Those things will be account bind so no pay to win also (some of ingredients will be buy-able but not all of the).

So legendaries are P2W.

Yes

Want to hear it from him since he went to elaborate how its “not P2W” without putting much thought in it.

Doubt well hear from him again though

My emphasis was on that more avid players deserve better gear. If they can muster time to gain necessary materials why not let them. We need to keep in mind that difference between exotic and ascended is not game breaking.

MikaHR.1978:

Vayne.8563:

MikaHR.1978:

;Vayne.8563:

Simply put, you’re wrong. There are 8 dungeons in this game and every one of them can be done in rares…including every explorable path. Every boss in the open world can be done in rares. SPvP has nothing to do with your gear so that can be done. And even WvW, many people run around in rares.

And then we have the fractals. And yes, you can do the fractals up to level 20 with no agony resistance whatsoever. So if you want to see what the fractals are like you can play them. You can play them over and over again at lower levels. It’s only an issue if you want to do higher levels, but get this. The stuff you need to do level 20 fractals you can get from the fractals. It’s absolutely self-contained and doesn’t affect any other dungeon.

Now what MMRPG can you tell me is like that. Name one.

You see, your lack of experience shows. Every MMO released in last 5 years had dungeons (even raids) playable in “greens”.

Please, refrain from posting just for the sake of posting.

Slow down, cowboy. Way to miss a point.

I didn’t say that other games didn’t have dungeons you could or couldn’t do in greens. In your desire to discredit but, you didn’t understand what I said.

Try again. Other games have dungeons you can’t do without having the required gear. That’s the point. Let me give you a crystal clear example.

In Rift, in order to queue for a specific dungeon, I had to have the requisite stats. In order to get those stats I had to do OTHER DUNGEONS. And in order to raid I had to do specific dungeons to get the gear for those raids. And you couldn’t skip a raid and do the next raid.

Now I have a friend on these very forums who played Rift since launch and then had to work a lot. He couldn’t raid with his buddies. Storm Legion came out and he couldn’t be there. His guild moved on. Leveled up. Geared up. They were raiding. He comes back to the game a couple of month later and he can’t get 20 people he needs to do the old raid from his own guild. He was leveling up by himself. He couldn’t do the new content because he didn’t have the gear.

Contrast to this guy in my guild who came back after a four month break and ran Arah with us.

There aren’t many games you can do that. Sure you can sit and do old content with lower level gear, but you need to gear up to do newer content and that’s the difference.

If you can’t see this, that’s okay. I’m sure most other people have already understood what I’ve been saying.

You mean just like fractals.

Warning: ignorance reached critical level

Only thing your post is evidence is how crappy his guild is, nothing else. The only advice your friend need is to kick that guild and look for better one (one who takes care of their members just like we run low level fractals for our members, not because we enjoy it but because they cannot play without them and have to play catch up)

And, BTW, all dungeons and fractals are old content, been in game for a year now.

I talked about fractals. You ignored me (and continue to call me ignorant, something you wouldn’t do if you can win the arguments with actual facts).

So again…people can do fractals with no ascended gear. They can go all the way up to level 20. And if they do that, they can get what they need from fractals to do more fractals. It’s self contained. That’s the point.

If I want to see what fractals are about, I can see EVERY fractal. All of them. All 9.

If I want to see every raid in WoW, can I just see a raid, without gearing up? How about most other MMOs.

In your attempt to put this game down, you only make yourself look disingenuous.

sAdam.5876:

MikaHR.1978:

Chuo.4238:

MikaHR.1978:

sAdam.5876:

I on the other hand don’t mind changes. Hell if somebody play more than me, he deserves to have better stats than me. It’s not USSR where everybody is equal. If it’s in form of ascended gear I’m fine with that. Those things will be account bind so no pay to win also (some of ingredients will be buy-able but not all of the).

So legendaries are P2W.

Yes

Want to hear it from him since he went to elaborate how its “not P2W” without putting much thought in it.

Doubt well hear from him again though

My emphasis was on that more avid players deserve better gear. If they can muster time to gain necessary materials why not let them. We need to keep in mind that difference between exotic and ascended is not game breaking.

Why? Now go back about what they said about legendaries and your statement goes against everything they said. In fact they sold the game under “skill not gear”

In fact in competitive environment 10% (ascended gives much more) is HUGE.

Vayne.8563:

If I want to see every raid in WoW, can I just see a raid, without gearing up? How about most other MMOs.

Yes you can.

Get in the present, its obvious you talk about distant past (lack of experience) or more likely ignorance.

MikaHR.1978:

Vayne.8563:

If I want to see every raid in WoW, can I just see a raid, without gearing up? How about most other MMOs.

Yes you can.

Get in the present, its obvious you talk about distant past (lack of experience)

Okay, if this changed, that’s fine. But that still doesn’t change my point about gear being required in MOST MMOs to do raid content. And if you don’t have that gear in MOST MMOs, you can’t do that content.

If you can deny this you’re not as experienced as you think.

Vayne.8563:

MikaHR.1978:

Vayne.8563:

If I want to see every raid in WoW, can I just see a raid, without gearing up? How about most other MMOs.

Yes you can.

Get in the present, its obvious you talk about distant past (lack of experience)

Okay, if this changed, that’s fine. But that still doesn’t change my point about gear being required in MOST MMOs to do raid content. And if you don’t have that gear in MOST MMOs, you can’t do that content.

If you can deny this you’re not as experienced as you think.

Again, please stop talking about things you have NO CLUE about.

MikaHR.1978:

Vayne.8563:

MikaHR.1978:

Vayne.8563:

If I want to see every raid in WoW, can I just see a raid, without gearing up? How about most other MMOs.

Yes you can.

Get in the present, its obvious you talk about distant past (lack of experience)

Okay, if this changed, that’s fine. But that still doesn’t change my point about gear being required in MOST MMOs to do raid content. And if you don’t have that gear in MOST MMOs, you can’t do that content.

If you can deny this you’re not as experienced as you think.

Again, please stop talking about things you have NO CLUE about.

Insult away. It’s okay. I can take it.

You obviously can’t win an argument with actual information.

Vayne.8563:

MikaHR.1978:

Vayne.8563:

MikaHR.1978:

Vayne.8563:

If I want to see every raid in WoW, can I just see a raid, without gearing up? How about most other MMOs.

Yes you can.

Get in the present, its obvious you talk about distant past (lack of experience)

Okay, if this changed, that’s fine. But that still doesn’t change my point about gear being required in MOST MMOs to do raid content. And if you don’t have that gear in MOST MMOs, you can’t do that content.

If you can deny this you’re not as experienced as you think.

Again, please stop talking about things you have NO CLUE about.

Insult away. It’s okay. I can take it.

You obviously can’t win an argument with actual information.

Its you who is completely out of loop and dont have ANY actual information.

Mabye if you get actual experience in other games you could say something tangible, but it seems that it is easier just being ignorant.

MikaHR.1978:

Vayne.8563:

MikaHR.1978:

Vayne.8563:

MikaHR.1978:

Vayne.8563:

If I want to see every raid in WoW, can I just see a raid, without gearing up? How about most other MMOs.

Yes you can.

Get in the present, its obvious you talk about distant past (lack of experience)

Okay, if this changed, that’s fine. But that still doesn’t change my point about gear being required in MOST MMOs to do raid content. And if you don’t have that gear in MOST MMOs, you can’t do that content.

If you can deny this you’re not as experienced as you think.

Again, please stop talking about things you have NO CLUE about.

Insult away. It’s okay. I can take it.

You obviously can’t win an argument with actual information.

Its you who is completely out of loop and dont have ANY actual information.

Show me where I insulted you, or called you ignorant. The fact that you can’t converse like a civilized human being has been noted…and not just by me.

You should probably try to stick to talking about ideas instead of trying to malign people. It’s really not a good look.

Vayne.8563:

MikaHR.1978:

Vayne.8563:

MikaHR.1978:

Vayne.8563:

MikaHR.1978:

Vayne.8563:

If I want to see every raid in WoW, can I just see a raid, without gearing up? How about most other MMOs.

Yes you can.

Get in the present, its obvious you talk about distant past (lack of experience)

Okay, if this changed, that’s fine. But that still doesn’t change my point about gear being required in MOST MMOs to do raid content. And if you don’t have that gear in MOST MMOs, you can’t do that content.

If you can deny this you’re not as experienced as you think.

Again, please stop talking about things you have NO CLUE about.

Insult away. It’s okay. I can take it.

You obviously can’t win an argument with actual information.

Its you who is completely out of loop and dont have ANY actual information.

Show me where I insulted you, or called you ignorant. The fact that you can’t converse like a civilized human being has been noted…and not just by me.

You should probably try to stick to talking about ideas instead of trying to malign people. It’s really not a good look.

Calling ignorant ignorant is what it is.

You have been explained at least 10 times about same thing and you just ignore it=ignorant.

Its pretty simple.

MikaHR.1978:

Vayne.8563:

MikaHR.1978:

Vayne.8563:

MikaHR.1978:

Vayne.8563:

MikaHR.1978:

Vayne.8563:

If I want to see every raid in WoW, can I just see a raid, without gearing up? How about most other MMOs.

Yes you can.

Get in the present, its obvious you talk about distant past (lack of experience)

Okay, if this changed, that’s fine. But that still doesn’t change my point about gear being required in MOST MMOs to do raid content. And if you don’t have that gear in MOST MMOs, you can’t do that content.

If you can deny this you’re not as experienced as you think.

Again, please stop talking about things you have NO CLUE about.

Insult away. It’s okay. I can take it.

You obviously can’t win an argument with actual information.

Its you who is completely out of loop and dont have ANY actual information.

Show me where I insulted you, or called you ignorant. The fact that you can’t converse like a civilized human being has been noted…and not just by me.

You should probably try to stick to talking about ideas instead of trying to malign people. It’s really not a good look.

Calling ignorant ignorant is what it is.

You have been explained at least 10 times about same thing and you just ignore it=ignorant.

Its pretty simple.

A disagreement of opinion doesn’t make one ignorant. You think this is a gear grind and compare this to other MMOs. Other MMOs come out with new tiers of gear 3, maybe for times a year. This game has one tier of gear that isn’t even finished coming out yet. One tier. And you call it a treadmill and then call me ignorant.

Calling someone ignorant that has a different opinion is simply sad. And again, if you had facts to back it up…hey how many tiers of gear does WoW come out with a year?

What did I say?
is/isn’t all the way.

Yargesh.4965:

What did I say?
is/isn’t all the way.

Its pretty clear what it is and what it isnt, except to some ignorant people (i choose to believe its “selective ignorance” in question).

:/ thats why when vayne’s here gg post….

xephire.8324:

:/ thats why when vayne’s here gg post….

takes 2 to tango as they say.

MikaHR.1978:

sAdam.5876:

My emphasis was on that more avid players deserve better gear. If they can muster time to gain necessary materials why not let them. We need to keep in mind that difference between exotic and ascended is not game breaking.

Why? Now go back about what they said about legendaries and your statement goes against everything they said. In fact they sold the game under “skill not gear”

In fact in competitive environment 10% (ascended gives much more) is HUGE.

Why what? Why somebody who plays more deserves better gear, than casual gamer like me? To show off , to reward for commitment. I would be disappointed if somebody who plays less than me got better items(now I’m not talking about buying via market).

They told what exactly? I must say I don’t remember to which statement you are referring.

About selling points. One of them was home district changing alongside our adventure. I’m still waiting on that :P Some thing change, some get sidetracked. Maybe they decided that gear progression is what players want.

Huge, but not game breaking. I don’t think it’s so easy to distinguish tier of armor in for example WvW (I rarely do PvP). Maybe with introduction of duels problems would arise.

Yargesh.4965:

xephire.8324:

:/ thats why when vayne’s here gg post….

takes 2 to tango as they say.

Yep and whose the cause of the tango?

xephire.8324:

Yargesh.4965:

xephire.8324:

:/ thats why when vayne’s here gg post….

takes 2 to tango as they say.

Yep and whose the cause of the tango?

how do you cause a tango?

Yargesh.4965:

takes 2 to tango as they say.

Tango with PR is always welcome.

I really only have a few simple problems with the gearing in this game:

1) Legendaries being tradeable: this is just wrong and it makes them seem less an actual achievement to obtain and more of a “look at how much gold I have”.

2) These items that Anet said are supposed to “bridge” the gap between legendaries and exotics are more like a large detour. They just siphon away resources that could have gone towards a legendary weapon (they utilize a lot of similar mats in most cases it seems). See what I mean by a detour?

They should have maybe made these weapons “upgradeable” over time to like a precursor or something at least. Example; after you craft such and such weapon/armor, when equipped it gain experience as you complete activities and eventually levels up to become precursor weapon. The mats would be at a stage much lower than that of a legendary weapon, but give the option to players to time gate instead of grind gate a precursor.

3) The reward system is not very balanced between the different activities in game. So, you end up stuck grinding away at whatever the flavor of the month dungeon is making the most gold and/or best drops; or grinding champs.

I mean they should definitely NOT just hand out legendaries/precursors and other good rewards, especially not for failing an event, but you should be rewarded for completing the many various activities you can participate in throughout GW2 and feel you are getting something out of it. Some of the activities in this game seem to just feel left out of the loop when it comes to rewards and then anyone that enjoys those aspects of GW2 has to stop doing what they enjoy about the game to go grind it out in order to get anything new (as opposed to just grinding out the aspects of the game they enjoy).

I do enjoy the fact that they are reusing lower level areas; I have always really hated games where you play through an area and then it becomes obsolete after you complete a handful of quests. Providing events and new “content” to refresh less some of the less used zones is great; although, I do believe that there need to be more permanent changes to those zones as things progress. Towns being overrun and destroyed, new structures being built, etc. where players can return to later on (for instance in flame and frost; they could have had a major town/outpost destroyed and left in a ruined state for players to see as they run through the area later on. Maybe post an NPC warden or something there players can chat with to learn about the history of the ruined town, like a summary of the event. “The molten alliance created many refugees, this is one of the towns that unfortunately was overrun.” etc.)

AGONOIZE.7269:

I totally agree with you and i hope this isn´t the end for this beautiful game..
Guys, if u defend what a-net is doing with ascended equipment and the treadmill which is ongoing slowly, pls… go and play stupid games like WoW and sh..-.-

I don’t have a problem with it.

One: none of the content requires it. Not WvW, not PvE, you can go out in full exotics and still be extremely efficient and effective. sPvP won’t be affected at all.

Two: acquiring it is a slow process. We don’t even have all of the sets and pieces available to us, and we’ve had a long time now just to get things like accessories and backpacks. If you haven’t managed to acquire ANY of that gear and you have played more than a month or two, that is very strange for folks who claim to want BiS for everything.

And three: Even if all ascended gear were released tomorrow, you would still be competitive in the current BiS and you will be for a long time. It was designed not to make the previous tier obsolete.

I prefer flat progression too, but the way you guys are freaking out and exaggerating makes me want ANet to speed up the schedule! If you’re so bad in WvW that you believe you will automatically lose if you fight someone wearing a few higher-tier pieces than you, then stop letting your gear carry you now and start improving your game!

The problem with WoW is that a new tier gets released every six months in its entirety, and is locked behind raids. This stuff is NOT locked behind raids. It’s accessible to anyone. And it’s not going to see big stat hikes every six months. Stop freaking out and assuming this game is turning into WoW.

Vayne.8563:

I didn’t have a lot of time when I responded to the first part of your post, and I have more time now…so explain to me.

edit: on further reflection I’ve been doing the same thing you have, arguing about use of a term instead of the real issues, so I’ll cede the point — not because I agree that the arbitrary adaptation of a term needs to stay locked in stone, but because there are more important issues to discuss.

killcannon.2576:

IndigoSundown.5419:

Vayne.8563:

But a treadmill, by definition, never ends. So if legendary is the final tier, then it can’t be a treadmill, because it’s final. That’s a definition.

You can call a bird a stone, but a bird isn’t a stone.

Legendary is not a gear tier. Legendary is a prestige skin. Legendary stats are not different than the stats of whatever the highest tier is. Thus, it cannot be thought of as a final tier. If ANet never adds another tier beyond Ascended, then Ascended would be the highest tier. We don’t yet know if that will or won’t be the case.

No definition of treadmill that I can find includes “never ends” as part of it. A treadmill does include an endless belt as one of its components. The belt is important to the treadmill’s function, but it is not the purpose of the treadmill.

That said, the function of a treadmill is to allow or cause the user to walk in place. However, the purpose of a treadmill is not to be “always on.” It is to power something or get health results. The purpose of a gear treadmill in an MMO is to promote the game’s longevity in the face of players who desire to play the game a lot. That is the purpose of Ascended.

Sometimes, people argue about the meaning of words to sidetrack from the real issues being discussed. I prefer to talk about purpose and intent rather than about whether a word that has been altered to fit a particular context is being used “properly” or not. The rapid evolution of words in popular culture means that their meaning cannot be set in stone. Thus, discussing the meanings of words is important in discourse so we know what each other is talking about. However, that discussion should be tangential to the real issues, rather than being used as a means to win an argument.

Gear treadmills serve two purposes in MMO’s that implement them as a game mechanic.

1. Progression- Allows the player to “feel” as if they are becoming more powerful compared to what they were before they had the new gear. Bigger numbers.

2. Content gating- Content can only be completed reliably by having a certain gear score or dps/armor/heal rating attributed to having said gear.

GW2 currently only follows the first purpose as implemented by game mechanics. Any current content can be completed (besides fractals) reliably with exotic or lower gear.

It is a treadmill in the sense of progression, but not in the sense of content gating. Any content gating is put in place by the players themselves, not actual game mechanics.

Whether this stays true in the future (the new Teq fight seems a lot like a dps race, and may be turned into a gear encounter instead of a skill encounter) remains to be seen.

And Legendary would be a tier of gear considering it would be a final step, with never having to invest in gear again after acquiring it.

I agree on the number of purposes, but they are actually 1) to provide a sense of character progression; and 2) to motivate play through a non-optional power progression. They are actually strongly related but separate in terms of the purposes for which VP is employed.

Content-gating is simply a side-effect of VP and not required to define it. It has nothing to do with treadmills, they are all around VP proper. The definition is complete in the two words that make up the concept. Content-gating, usually by power level, is part of the non-optional motivation to play in VP and it will always occur at some point on the power curve. This is self evident.

I can’t believe the OP was infracted for his post… He’s right. They’re unplugging one hole to plug another one. How long until the lack of class/build variety makes people like us quit or at least quit playing WvW ot just stop taking it seriously altogether?

ANet had a very fun and alt-friendly game in WvW. It had a lot of varied gameplay with different builds within those alts as well. The game didn’t get old bc you weren’t locked to your best equipped char or “main”. Because they could all have top gear and be all “mains” and you could focus in having fun instead of getting gear.

Now it’s kittened. You’ll have to chose one character and one build to be top of your game while your other chars and builds are subpar. Do you even want to play with a subpar char/build? or even grind all that nonsense for BiS in your now forced main?

Harbard.5738:

I can’t believe the OP was infracted for his post… He’s right. They’re unplugging one hole to plug another one. How long until the lack of class/build variety makes people like us quit or at least quit playing WvW ot just stop taking it seriously altogether?

ANet had a very fun and alt-friendly game in WvW. It had a lot of varied gameplay with different builds within those alts as well. The game didn’t get old bc you weren’t locked to your best equipped char or “main”. Because they could all have top gear and be all “mains” and you could focus in having fun instead of getting gear.

Now it’s kittened. You’ll have to chose one character and one build to be top of your game while your other chars and builds are subpar. Do you even want to play with a subpar char/build? or even grind all that nonsense for BiS in your now forced main?

That’s the way Anet works nowadays. Someone tells the truth and it doesn’t fit in with their prospects… they try to discredit that someone. It’s all going to waste.

Lord Kuru.3685:

No doubt by the time we’re able to grind out Ascended gear for all our mains (just forget about gearing up any alts!), we’ll certainly have the next tier of gear foisted upon us.

They claim ascended is the last tier. But oh wait, infusions. Do you trust them enough that there won’t be a never ending influx of infusions? Rare, exotic, ascended infusions…. so much fun…

Harbard.5738:

Lord Kuru.3685:

No doubt by the time we’re able to grind out Ascended gear for all our mains (just forget about gearing up any alts!), we’ll certainly have the next tier of gear foisted upon us.

They claim ascended is the last tier. But oh wait, infusions. Do you trust them enough that there won’t be a never ending influx of infusions? Rare, exotic, ascended infusions…. so much fun…

No, they claim ascended is last tier…in 2013 Expect somrhing like this:

Remember that infusions are at “fine” quality so lots of room for new tiers there. It will look somewhat:

ascended weapons
masterwork infusions
ascended armor
rare infusions
ascended sigils
exotic infusions
ascended runes
ascended infusions

new level cap rendering all of the above obsolete.

Welcome to new Gear Wars 2! Its all about gearflation! And we have grind too!

They went 180 form gw1 to gw2. I remember their promotional slogan was “your skill will be your legend”. Good they didn’t use this with gw 2

I have full exotic gear and I can kill most 80’s 1v1. I usually don’t use food buffs and oils but I can still kill them even if they have them.

Now assuming that they also got full exotic gear like I am, they still have the upper edge with food buffs and maintenance oil which gives more than 10% stats.

Point is, it is still more skill based than stat based like most other mmo’s.

BalloonShark.6739:

I have full exotic gear and I can kill most 80’s 1v1. I usually don’t use food buffs and oils but I can still kill them even if they have them.

Now assuming that they also got full exotic gear like I am, they still have the upper edge with food buffs and maintenance oil which gives more than 10% stats.

Point is, it is still more skill based than stat based like most other mmo’s.

So you can pwn bads/upleveled so that makes it alright?

Raine.1394:

killcannon.2576:

IndigoSundown.5419:

Vayne.8563:

But a treadmill, by definition, never ends. So if legendary is the final tier, then it can’t be a treadmill, because it’s final. That’s a definition.

You can call a bird a stone, but a bird isn’t a stone.

Legendary is not a gear tier. Legendary is a prestige skin. Legendary stats are not different than the stats of whatever the highest tier is. Thus, it cannot be thought of as a final tier. If ANet never adds another tier beyond Ascended, then Ascended would be the highest tier. We don’t yet know if that will or won’t be the case.

No definition of treadmill that I can find includes “never ends” as part of it. A treadmill does include an endless belt as one of its components. The belt is important to the treadmill’s function, but it is not the purpose of the treadmill.

That said, the function of a treadmill is to allow or cause the user to walk in place. However, the purpose of a treadmill is not to be “always on.” It is to power something or get health results. The purpose of a gear treadmill in an MMO is to promote the game’s longevity in the face of players who desire to play the game a lot. That is the purpose of Ascended.

Sometimes, people argue about the meaning of words to sidetrack from the real issues being discussed. I prefer to talk about purpose and intent rather than about whether a word that has been altered to fit a particular context is being used “properly” or not. The rapid evolution of words in popular culture means that their meaning cannot be set in stone. Thus, discussing the meanings of words is important in discourse so we know what each other is talking about. However, that discussion should be tangential to the real issues, rather than being used as a means to win an argument.

Gear treadmills serve two purposes in MMO’s that implement them as a game mechanic.

1. Progression- Allows the player to “feel” as if they are becoming more powerful compared to what they were before they had the new gear. Bigger numbers.

2. Content gating- Content can only be completed reliably by having a certain gear score or dps/armor/heal rating attributed to having said gear.

GW2 currently only follows the first purpose as implemented by game mechanics. Any current content can be completed (besides fractals) reliably with exotic or lower gear.

It is a treadmill in the sense of progression, but not in the sense of content gating. Any content gating is put in place by the players themselves, not actual game mechanics.

Whether this stays true in the future (the new Teq fight seems a lot like a dps race, and may be turned into a gear encounter instead of a skill encounter) remains to be seen.

And Legendary would be a tier of gear considering it would be a final step, with never having to invest in gear again after acquiring it.

I agree on the number of purposes, but they are actually 1) to provide a sense of character progression; and 2) to motivate play through a non-optional power progression. They are actually strongly related but separate in terms of the purposes for which VP is employed.

Content-gating is simply a side-effect of VP and not required to define it. It has nothing to do with treadmills, they are all around VP proper. The definition is complete in the two words that make up the concept. Content-gating, usually by power level, is part of the non-optional motivation to play in VP and it will always occur at some point on the power curve. This is self evident.

Uh how is it self evident if it isn’t evident?

You can have gear progression with content gating, GW2 does it (for whatever reason they have), outside of fractals.

There is zero reason to chase gear in the pve game outside of personal desire.

No reaction? No answer? Come on ANet one answer!

I fear it’s too late at this point. One year after launch we still have no real systems to facilitate the cosmetic progression we were supposed to have. Instead stat inflation is worse than ever. Just try bringing a character in greens to WvWvW and see how long you can survive without exotics and ascended. Skill no longer accounts for much outside of SPvP and it’s sad.

I think the crux of the issue here is that ArenaNet has largely abandoned their original vision in favor of some weird hybrid which isn’t really pleasing anyone.

Fungalfoot.7213:

Just try bringing a character in greens to WvWvW and see how long you can survive without exotics and ascended.

You can survive very well in yellows, which are also extremely cheap.

Ascended weapons are just beginning. Considering that you will need at least 3, but 4-6 just for 1 character and 1 build makes it huge grind just for that.

Now throw in all trinkets just for 1 character and one build, at least 14-16new infusions (with every new tier, they are at blue atm so expect a lot of that) and 6 armor pieces (which will be even bigger grind than weapons), 4-6 ascended sigils and 6 ascended runes just for 1 character and 1 build.

Legendary weapon grind will seem like a fond memory.

What you are looking at is Korean grinder in the making that puts even classic Korean grinders like L2 to shame.

And then level cap raise will come and render it all obsolete.

Or if your build gets nerfed to the ground lol

Its obvious they are putting their eggs in eastern market basket.

Sylv.5324:

Fungalfoot.7213:

Just try bringing a character in greens to WvWvW and see how long you can survive without exotics and ascended.

You can survive very well in yellows, which are also extremely cheap.

And you survive much much better in exotics. Your point?

MikaHR.1978:

Sylv.5324:

Fungalfoot.7213:

Just try bringing a character in greens to WvWvW and see how long you can survive without exotics and ascended.

You can survive very well in yellows, which are also extremely cheap.

And you survive much much better in exotics. Your point?

I do fine in yellows in WvW in small fights (I did upgrade my trinkets to ascended finally and I have exotic weapons). In zergs, the stat difference is pretty irrelevant. It’s not a dealbreaker to start out in WvW in yellows or exotics, neither of which are prohibitively expensive, whilst saving laurels and whatnot for ascended trinkets.

You folks are -really- overblowing the difference in WvW (greens, really?). I kinda think you guys don’t WvW very much.

Sylv.5324:

In zergs, the stat difference is pretty irrelevant.

Utter nonsense. In zergs upscaled players and poorly geared players alike typically end up as resurrection fodder for the enemy.

MikaHR.1978:

So legendaries are P2W.

What? How are Legendaries P2W exactly?

1. You can obtain Legendaries through the game. Unless I’ve missed something and Legendaries bought with Gold exchanged from the gemstore are better than other Legendary weapons.

2. Legendary weapons only make a difference in WvW where you can join in at level 2, meaning that, by your logic, if someone was level 20 and bought gear through gold from the gemstore, that would also be P2W, since it has higher stats.

dalendria.3762:

The requirements are dangerously close to Legendaries…

They’re really not.

Have you seen the requirements for Legendary weapons?

It’s a minimum of 327 ecto’s and that’s providing you get a Mystic Clover every time, which never happens (on average, I think someone worked out people will use 481 ecto’s, just getting their clovers). Not to mention the minimum spend of 120g 50s (100g for the Icy Runestones, 20g for crafting recipies, 50s for the Gift of Battle).

Ascended with their 12 ecto’s and the 11g, 35s, 20c cost pales in comparison. This isn’t even going into the other requirements.

Fungalfoot.7213:

Sylv.5324:

In zergs, the stat difference is pretty irrelevant.

Utter nonsense. In zergs upscaled players and poorly geared players alike typically end up as resurrection fodder for the enemy.

And a player in rares or exotics is not poorly geared, so your point is?

(edit: typo, keyboard dying!)

TheDaiBish.9735:

They’re really not.

Have you seen the requirements for Legendary weapons?

It’s a minimum of 327 ecto’s and that’s providing you get a Mystic Clover every time, which never happens (on average, I think someone worked out people will use 481 ecto’s, just getting their clovers). Not to mention the minimum spend of 120g 50s (100g for the Icy Runestones, 20g for crafting recipies, 50s for the Gift of Battle).

Ascended with their 12 ecto’s and the 11g, 35s, 20c cost pales in comparison. This isn’t even going into the other requirements.

Yeah.

Your cost of making one is, depending on the legendary, usually between 1200 to 1500g (more right now with the mat hike) if you buy your precursor. As far as I know, it will not cost that much to make an ascended weapon.

I really wish people stopped exaggerating to make their argument.

I agree with the OP. I like the fact that I can take large breaks for GW2 and still have my 80’s be at equal gear levels as the people who play religiously. It makes me feel like I’m still viable and won’t have to quit playing permanently because of the “No Hope” to catch up treadmill of traditional themeparks.

And why did the OP get an infraction for his/her post? hahaha

EATtheDEAD.4768:

I agree with the OP. I like the fact that I can take large breaks for GW2 and still have my 80’s be at equal gear levels as the people who play religiously. It makes me feel like I’m still viable and won’t have to quit playing permanently because of the “No Hope” to catch up treadmill of traditional themeparks

Well, not any more unfortunately.

In fact it will take much more time and grind in GW2.