Guild Wars 2

mtpelion.4562:

“Random” means “unable to be predicted” (a definition that is becoming less and less applicable as we expand our knowledge of science and thus can predict things).

Loot is not random, it is dropped from a table with set probabilities. How those probabilities are controlled is through a bit of software known as a “random number generator”, which is an algorithm that seeks to imitate randomness while keeping overall drop rates within the defined probability margins. Everything about getting loot is formulaic, thus not random. That being said, the idea that some accounts are flagged to get more drops makes for a good consolation story to ease your jealousy when you hear about someone else’s fortunate drop, it would be a business practice that quickly lead to the collapse of the game once news of it got out (which it would).

I agree. It also makes zero sense that such a punitive anti-loot code would be applied to a gw1 player (who spent money) that is now a gw2 collectors edition player (who spends money). However, and this is the important part, for whatever reason (and I’m not calling it a corporate conspiracy) my account does not get drops. I got my very first ascended ring drop last night from a WvW rank bag.

I have played 3k hours and gotten 6 precursor drops so I think the system is all right. Heck, once I got two precursors in row from the forge.

Great now precursor price went up to almost 1k (atleast when it comes to dusk/spark/legend) You just cant afford on buying with gold and keeping up with the price.

Sakri.7234:

I have played 3k hours and gotten 6 precursor drops so I think the system is all right. Heck, once I got two precursors in row from the forge.

Broken as intended.

The bug in final rest that caused it not to drop for 9 months :P If there is any weighting in favor, it’s going to be a bug (or at least called one).

Mono.7320:

munkiman.3068:

The bug in final rest that caused it not to drop for 9 months :P If there is any weighting in favor, it’s going to be a bug (or at least called one).

you think that RNG is bugged?

Mono.7320:

Mono.7320:

munkiman.3068:

The bug in final rest that caused it not to drop for 9 months :P If there is any weighting in favor, it’s going to be a bug (or at least called one).

you think that RNG is bugged?

Ha, no. I was just saying that if there was a weighted system behind why certain people have crummy drops while others have already received 6 or more precursors, it would come down to been called a bug. One that has been overlooked for 2 years. I’m not being serious about it.

munkiman.3068:

Mono.7320:

Mono.7320:

munkiman.3068:

The bug in final rest that caused it not to drop for 9 months :P If there is any weighting in favor, it’s going to be a bug (or at least called one).

you think that RNG is bugged?

Ha, no. I was just saying that if there was a weighted system behind why certain people have crummy drops while others have already received 6 or more precursors, it would come down to been called a bug. One that has been overlooked for 2 years. I’m not being serious about it.

Disagree—there is a bug in the code—they just can’t find it.
Kinda like the sudden acceleration problem that Toyota kept denying. How did that work out for them? 1.2 billion!

Blude.6812:

Disagree—there is a bug in the code—they just can’t find it.
Kinda like the sudden acceleration problem that Toyota kept denying. How did that work out for them? 1.2 billion!

If the probability that a Precursor drops is 1 in 1,000,000, that doesn’t mean that you will get a Precursor every 1,000,000 kills, it means that across the entire game, the current ratio of kills to Precursors is going to be approximately 1,000,000:1.

Because you’d need to have the data on every single kill and every single drop from every single player in order to make any kind of determination, there is no way that you can say that there is or that there is not a bug.

Taku.6352:

4.2k hours played since headstart, +1k gold down the forge, 0 precursor drops yet 4 legendaries and 1 precursor waiting to be crafted all thanks to the wonders of the TP.

If you want a legendary then just buy the kitten thing from the TP.

Yeah cause it’s really cooler to buy a legendary instead of earning it..

Kal Spiro.9745:

tigirius.9014:

Kal Spiro.9745:

Valandil Dragonhart.2371:

Can you explain then why people’s accounts are seemingly cursed, and other’s, seemingly blessed? Farm as much as you like, I don’t care, you clearly don’t farm on the same server as I do. People get lucky, yes… and for some reason, they get a lot luckier than others. Not just once.

I get named exo’s from the forge, and that’s as far as it goes. I’ll occasionally get an exo drop (not like the reward chest I mentioned earlier), but that’s as far as it goes. Like I mentioned in my last post which you seem to have glossed over, this is possibly the most stupid RNG mechanic I’ve ever seen in any game. Brutally simplistic retorts don’t help anyone, and are far from productive.

Because RNG is RNG? I really don’t think you understand how statistics and chance work.

Actually you don’t understand how RNG works. Mathematically randomness is never completely random. If you believe otherwise it’s you who need to return to statistics class and learn what the greats have already discovered, there’s always a slant one way or another.

I continued to see reports of this happening after they revamped the magic find system, and supposedly found the 9 month long bug in their loot system. They haven’t fixed it in the least and in fact promise to make things worse with some of their updates if they don’t act soon enough when this launches this month.

True randomness is a figment of the imagination. RNG is RNG. Bugs are another thing, but I must not read the right forums cause I don’t know of anything to that point.

Then you haven’t been playing long or you don’t read the forums much, there was a bug/discrepency found in the RNG/loot table approximately a year ago that was reported by the devs here in the forums and was supposedly addressed, but, I DON’T THINK SO. RNG may be RNG to you, but, to some it’s a conspiracy.

mtpelion.4562:

“Random” means “unable to be predicted” (a definition that is becoming less and less applicable as we expand our knowledge of science and thus can predict things).

Loot is not random, it is dropped from a table with set probabilities. How those probabilities are controlled is through a bit of software known as a “random number generator”, which is an algorithm that seeks to imitate randomness while keeping overall drop rates within the defined probability margins. Everything about getting loot is formulaic, thus not random. That being said, the idea that some accounts are flagged to get more drops makes for a good consolation story to ease your jealousy when you hear about someone else’s fortunate drop, it would be a business practice that quickly lead to the collapse of the game once news of it got out (which it would).

What do you mean ‘Loot is not random’ with your definition of random.

It can’t be predicted, so it’s random.

It may have an algorithm for how likely, but then it comes down to random whether you roll right to get it.

The mere fact this is an issue is why the system is one of the stupidest I’ve seen in a video game in general.

Its bad enough that the only real “end game” content they give to players who may be more use to a vertical progression system are Legendary weapons and Ascended armor, but because of the poor drop rate and grind it takes to make money, its no different than being on auto pilot for thousands of hours of your life.

Its not skill based in the least bit to make one but its the only real thing they’ve given players to accomplish outside of the “main game” (i.e. personal story).

I think the reason people enjoy things like Legendary weapons so much is because in many games where bosses and dungeons and events are scaled for multiple people and groups, its the one thing that can prove personal achievement. There aren’t any dungeons or rewards for soloing and there aren’t really 1 on 1 arenas or a dueling system, so its not surprising people care so much about trying to get one.

Personally, I think its best to just not bother with it until you get a pre-cursor or they come up with a new way to get one. Its a real waste of time and eventually they’ll introduce new fancy skins that they’ll make everyone grind for because despite not having “vertical progression”, this has always felt even more grindy than my experiences with WoW.

Oscar.4628:

Taku.6352:

4.2k hours played since headstart, +1k gold down the forge, 0 precursor drops yet 4 legendaries and 1 precursor waiting to be crafted all thanks to the wonders of the TP.

If you want a legendary then just buy the kitten thing from the TP.

Yeah cause it’s really cooler to buy a legendary instead of earning it..

cooler? there is NOTHING cool about buying legendary from TP? its called legendary for a reason and to work your butt off to get one. Goal here is to create one

Aidenwolf.5964:

Taku.6352:

4.2k hours played since headstart, +1k gold down the forge, 0 precursor drops yet 4 legendaries and 1 precursor waiting to be crafted all thanks to the wonders of the TP.

If you want a legendary then just buy the kitten thing from the TP.

Nothing legendary about that.

Nothing legendary at all about Legendaries whether you buy the precursor or just grind to get rares to send to the toilet.

Mono.7320:

Oscar.4628:

Taku.6352:

4.2k hours played since headstart, +1k gold down the forge, 0 precursor drops yet 4 legendaries and 1 precursor waiting to be crafted all thanks to the wonders of the TP.

If you want a legendary then just buy the kitten thing from the TP.

Yeah cause it’s really cooler to buy a legendary instead of earning it..

cooler? there is NOTHING cool about buying legendary from TP? its called legendary for a reason and to work your butt off to get one. Goal here is to create one

Pretty sure he was being sarcastic.

On a solution side, still no further commentary on getting a precursor every 10k achievement points.

Purely random drops should be only an alternative to get non-cosmetic things. Never the only source.

Legendary items are not just for prestige now. They can switch attributes. So they are no longer like those exotic unique skins you can get from champion bags. They have an use, and so there should be a way to get a guaranteed access to them, without randomness and without having to rely in the trading post. It doesn’t have to be fast, it doesn’t have to be easy, but that alternate way of getting precursors must guarantee that you will get them.

With exotics, you can get them as drops, or craft them, or earn them with tokens.

The random mode is the cheapest method, but it’s also the most unreliable, to the point that you may never get any in your entire life.

There has to be also the other methods: The relatively faster “earning” by doing some missions or quests that require experience and skill, and the much slower but easier crafting that requires mostly time.

MithranArkanere.8957:

There has to be also the other methods: The relatively faster “earning” by doing some missions or quests that require experience and skill, and the much slower but easier crafting that requires mostly time.

IE, every 10k achievement points?

yes some noob gona get lucky and we gona suffer he gona get rich more money then we can make farming and so on just cuz STUPID RNG!!!!

Vol.7601:

Why are people cursed? Again, they are not ‘cursed’, they’re just victims to RNG. There really isn’t much to explain about it and you’re making a big deal out of something so simple.

It also doesn’t help that these same people who seemingly spend thousands of hours in game yet haven’t got anything are doing the wrong types of content to get a good chance at more rolls.

Quiz time for you – who do you think has a better chance at getting a precursor?
-A player who spends 3000 hours in WvW
-A player who spends 3000 hours in dungeons
-A player who spends 3000 hours farming open world, high density mobs

And yes, anyone can farm events in one server, like the dozens of people who farmed events like shelt/pen in the old days, to angaria farm today.

But not many people even considered the thought of guesting and completing these events on multiple servers, which increased the # of mobs they killed and the # of loot rolls…until my guide was released.

In fact, the metrics show that at least 80 people have downloaded the metaevent timer, and at least 8 people are using it right at this moment. Before, there were only 424 downloads (499 now) and 2 active users.

You must be feeling really special right about now.

However your sampling on those said 3000 hour players fails to address the real inherent issue. They could get one the very minute after that 3000 hours ticks over, or never at all. They could get it by tagging mobs effectively or by stupid luck. As one of the people who fits into your last category (farming high-density mobs), I can safely say that me doing that has no better chance at a precursor roll than you have, because I’ve been there too.

Farming high-density mobs in the game has never had a proud history, regardless of your results. Why’s that? Because it brings out the greed-merchants who are only interested in tagging and bagging the same as you are. And what happens to those people and what they farm? Oh that’s right, it eventually gets nerfed. Same can be said for ember farming, Arah gates, right the way back to Cursed Shores and Straits of Devastation in the old days.

To throw a legendary-sized spanner in the works, here’s a simple hypothesis — some noob who has no idea of how to tag any mob in the game, and has less than 1k AP, in fact is less than say two hours old in the game… they have an identical chance of getting said precursors in far less time. Anecdotal evidence has presented itself far more often here by lucky players than by dedicated ones. What kind of a message is this sending to us? More to the point, what kind of message is Anet trying to send us?

Anything worth anything in this game just won’t happen because of RNG, WORKING AS INTENDED, now THAT’S legendary.

SonOfJacob.7396:

MithranArkanere.8957:

There has to be also the other methods: The relatively faster “earning” by doing some missions or quests that require experience and skill, and the much slower but easier crafting that requires mostly time.

IE, every 10k achievement points?

Seems fair, but would be too much of a ‘gimme’ to Anet.

It took me 3900 hours and 362 days to get a precursor. The Lover dropped from a champ bag I picked up from Orr. I sold it and gave every last copper to my boyfriend to help pay for his Twilight. Another friend actually dropped Lover from Behe day before yesterday and a month after mine; sold it, bought Dawn. Guildmate had played for about a year and got Leaf of Kudzu from CoF. He sold it and bought, you guessed it, Lover. One more friend got Lover from forge when he was trying for Spark.

Lovers, Lovers everywhere…

Mono.7320:

Great now precursor price went up to almost 1k (atleast when it comes to dusk/spark/legend) You just cant afford on buying with gold and keeping up with the price.

With the announcement of account bound legendaries / ascended, I saw this coming… To bad the most gold I have ever had was 50g… Which was given to me! Lol.

WvW doesn’t pay well.

SonOfJacob.7396:

[…]

IE, every 10k achievement points?

No. Something more like this:

To earn, epic instanced battles. Something like 5-player instanced versions of world bosses like Tequatl or the Golem Mark II that do not leave a lot of room for error. About 1 boss per map could do.
Each of the battles would count separately towards a repeatable achievement, and once each one is done once, the achievement completes and gives a loot bag with the item.
A really good player would be able to get them done relatively fast, then the achievement reward goes on cooldown for a month or two so no matter how good you are you can’t do too many.

As for the slow craft, the core of it would be doing many events. These events would spawn vendors on success. The vendors would have limited stocks so you can’t buy all of the stuff in one go, an have to come back later and do events again and buy again once in a while after the NPCs restock for you. Then using the materials from the drops and the event vendors to craft more stuff, along items purchased with skill points and karma, crafting timed items. All of that for a long time. A minimum of 3 months if buying some stuff off the TP, 6 months on average, but never more than a year when doing all of it on your own.

Vol.7601:

Maybe your son knows how to efficiently tag mobs and you don’t…

Valid except I’m usually the first to engage and tag everything I can during the engagement to catch ’em on fire.

tigirius.9014:

Kal Spiro.9745:

Valandil Dragonhart.2371:

Can you explain then why people’s accounts are seemingly cursed, and other’s, seemingly blessed? Farm as much as you like, I don’t care, you clearly don’t farm on the same server as I do. People get lucky, yes… and for some reason, they get a lot luckier than others. Not just once.

I get named exo’s from the forge, and that’s as far as it goes. I’ll occasionally get an exo drop (not like the reward chest I mentioned earlier), but that’s as far as it goes. Like I mentioned in my last post which you seem to have glossed over, this is possibly the most stupid RNG mechanic I’ve ever seen in any game. Brutally simplistic retorts don’t help anyone, and are far from productive.

Because RNG is RNG? I really don’t think you understand how statistics and chance work.

Actually you don’t understand how RNG works. Mathematically randomness is never completely random. If you believe otherwise it’s you who need to return to statistics class and learn what the greats have already discovered, there’s always a slant one way or another.

I continued to see reports of this happening after they revamped the magic find system, and supposedly found the 9 month long bug in their loot system. They haven’t fixed it in the least and in fact promise to make things worse with some of their updates if they don’t act soon enough when this launches this month.

I can get behind the “slanting”. My RNG slants one way at first, then the other way on next roll, continuing to keep me at perfect “nolootforyou” range

KraunK.2319:

I’m agree that people can craft their own precursor, in a long term and maybe gated 1 per 2 months or something with materials account bound.
I mean, drops in these games are based on luck, but when I heard that after 3000 4000 hours of playing people aren’t still able to drop it, it’s a shame.
Actually, I don’t care a lot about legendary, but people deserve to drop or make or whatever a precursor, after so many hours played, just for saying: jesus christ! I got you!

Btw I’m quite sure that this RNG is related to the Gem Store.
I’ve put like 1000 rares in the forge and nothing and then..
I’ve noticed that after spend some money buying gems, the same day I’ve got a Dawn and a Dusk in the MT with like 250 rares and the following days my drop rate was enourmously increased, exotics and rares from trash.
I don’t usually spend money on the gem store so it was obviously evident this change.
After 1 months I put over 1000s rares in one day and nothing, few trash exotics.
So I don’t know, there is something dirty.

Well said mate!! but this topic going nowhere if we just rage and argue all day :/ better keep this topic busy so devs would notice us.

MithranArkanere.8957:

SonOfJacob.7396:

[…]

IE, every 10k achievement points?

No. Something more like this:

To earn, epic instanced battles. Something like 5-player instanced versions of world bosses like Tequatl or the Golem Mark II that do not leave a lot of room for error. About 1 boss per map could do.
Each of the battles would count separately towards a repeatable achievement, and once each one is done once, the achievement completes and gives a loot bag with the item.
A really good player would be able to get them done relatively fast, then the achievement reward goes on cooldown for a month or two so no matter how good you are you can’t do too many.

As for the slow craft, the core of it would be doing many events. These events would spawn vendors on success. The vendors would have limited stocks so you can’t buy all of the stuff in one go, an have to come back later and do events again and buy again once in a while after the NPCs restock for you. Then using the materials from the drops and the event vendors to craft more stuff, along items purchased with skill points and karma, crafting timed items. All of that for a long time. A minimum of 3 months if buying some stuff off the TP, 6 months on average, but never more than a year when doing all of it on your own.

Personally I am down for anyway on making precursor will it be WvW,PVE or PVP or special fractal thingy. BETTER than playing lottery at mystic forge like you are in Las Vegas or something >.> ANYTHING is better than that. Also how do you expect someone to make 900 gold or more to get just precusor???? prices keep rising!!! you never caught up with the price unless people stop buying gold or flipping **** in the trading post. Why should people rage and quit the game for 1 item, i mean is it that significant thing to do ArenaNet? why you all torchering us to get what we like.

Im Mudbone.1437:

Kal Spiro.9745:

tigirius.9014:

Kal Spiro.9745:

Valandil Dragonhart.2371:

Can you explain then why people’s accounts are seemingly cursed, and other’s, seemingly blessed? Farm as much as you like, I don’t care, you clearly don’t farm on the same server as I do. People get lucky, yes… and for some reason, they get a lot luckier than others. Not just once.

I get named exo’s from the forge, and that’s as far as it goes. I’ll occasionally get an exo drop (not like the reward chest I mentioned earlier), but that’s as far as it goes. Like I mentioned in my last post which you seem to have glossed over, this is possibly the most stupid RNG mechanic I’ve ever seen in any game. Brutally simplistic retorts don’t help anyone, and are far from productive.

Because RNG is RNG? I really don’t think you understand how statistics and chance work.

Actually you don’t understand how RNG works. Mathematically randomness is never completely random. If you believe otherwise it’s you who need to return to statistics class and learn what the greats have already discovered, there’s always a slant one way or another.

I continued to see reports of this happening after they revamped the magic find system, and supposedly found the 9 month long bug in their loot system. They haven’t fixed it in the least and in fact promise to make things worse with some of their updates if they don’t act soon enough when this launches this month.

True randomness is a figment of the imagination. RNG is RNG. Bugs are another thing, but I must not read the right forums cause I don’t know of anything to that point.

Then you haven’t been playing long or you don’t read the forums much, there was a bug/discrepency found in the RNG/loot table approximately a year ago that was reported by the devs here in the forums and was supposedly addressed, but, I DON’T THINK SO. RNG may be RNG to you, but, to some it’s a conspiracy.

I don’t think apathy can be effectively interpreted as conspiracy, but whatever. Unless it was posted on every forum, which I know it wasn’t, it’s entirely possible for me to miss it. I only read a small handful of the forums in that time period and it wasn’t widely linked at the time, if at all.

Yeah so I ranked up in wvw and got an exotic dagger drop and almost had a heart attack. I calmed down once I saw it was “Usoku’s Needle” which has the same icon and in game skin as “Spark” the precursor for t he dagger.
Thanks arena net

MithranArkanere.8957:

SonOfJacob.7396:

[…]

IE, every 10k achievement points?

No. Something more like this:

To earn, epic instanced battles. Something like 5-player instanced versions of world bosses like Tequatl or the Golem Mark II that do not leave a lot of room for error. About 1 boss per map could do.
Each of the battles would count separately towards a repeatable achievement, and once each one is done once, the achievement completes and gives a loot bag with the item.
A really good player would be able to get them done relatively fast, then the achievement reward goes on cooldown for a month or two so no matter how good you are you can’t do too many.

As for the slow craft, the core of it would be doing many events. These events would spawn vendors on success. The vendors would have limited stocks so you can’t buy all of the stuff in one go, an have to come back later and do events again and buy again once in a while after the NPCs restock for you. Then using the materials from the drops and the event vendors to craft more stuff, along items purchased with skill points and karma, crafting timed items. All of that for a long time. A minimum of 3 months if buying some stuff off the TP, 6 months on average, but never more than a year when doing all of it on your own.

I guess I’m just of the mindset that what you’re suggesting, while perhaps legendary in scope, is not what the devs are considering because it’s an entire revamp requiring a LOT of coding…my solution was meant to be simple for precursor attainment without solving further mat requirements or making it additionally complicated. After Jormag’s defeat, you need to talk to the NPC to buy 100 Icy Runestones (which is similar to part of your suggestion).

The only legendary content on the level you’re speaking of was the one-time Karka event on a Sunday back in November of 2012. I got a 20 slot inventory bag. That was cool. But if that’s the type of content you want, it can’t be based on RNG. Hence why I recommend the 10k achievement point level – it requires very little programming from Anet, puts a standard out there, lowers prices, and makes it achievable but not immediate FOR EVERYONE ACROSS THE BOARD.

Equalization – that’s what the core of the RNG issue is about. They don’t need to revamp the whole process. Just how to obtain the precursor.

7.1k hours spent in gw2 since the launch and stress test, not a single precurser.

Pie Flavor.1647:

JCROY.5730:

Pie Flavor.1647:

JCROY.5730:

Just for my info..why is having a legendary so important? Is it just the achievement? Is it the changeable stats? The looks?
As for the upper reasons, speaking for myself:
Achievement: I couldn’t care less
Changeable stats: Great…since it most of the time players choose to have assassin or berserker..and does it really hit that much harder then ascended/exotic?
Looks: I have greenies with better looks then the legendaries..but thats a matter of taste

So again..why is this so important?

human achievement is always relative to what others have acheived, also known as “bragging rights”

If everyone had a legendary, nobody would be making one. I reckon only 1% of the playerbase has a legendary, and that’s why people find it so important to have one, it’s the prestige, it’s the exclusivity.

I guess that 1% playerbase is in my guild…LOL

1% of 2 million players is around 20,000 players.

does your guild have 20,000 players?

Almost…LOL
No, but statistics of 1% don’t apply to my guild…We have around 200+ active members and I am sure at least 20 of them own a legendary..or even more then one.

Aidenwolf.5964:

Sakri.7234:

I have played 3k hours and gotten 6 precursor drops so I think the system is all right. Heck, once I got two precursors in row from the forge.

Broken as intended.

It’s interesting to me to see this topic brought up again. It seems even with maxed out magic find that the loot still has not been repaired in this game after all this time.

Still DPS based on events, still based on if in group, still based on a biased hidden +luck factor on character creation, still affected by DR.

It’s time to fix this please.

(When I say a biased hidden +luck factor it’s been demonstrated on youtube that one can go thru and create multiple toons, look for factors while playing beginner zones that indicate your account has this +luck stat through gameplay, then level it, get to max level and drops will be on par with the players who get multiple precursors.)

tigirius.9014:

Aidenwolf.5964:

Sakri.7234:

I have played 3k hours and gotten 6 precursor drops so I think the system is all right. Heck, once I got two precursors in row from the forge.

Broken as intended.

(When I say a biased hidden +luck factor it’s been demonstrated on youtube that one can go thru and create multiple toons, look for factors while playing beginner zones that indicate your account has this +luck stat through gameplay, then level it, get to max level and drops will be on par with the players who get multiple precursors.)

If there is a video, I’d like to see that. Please link it.

Lankybrit.4598:

What do you mean ‘Loot is not random’ with your definition of random.

It can’t be predicted, so it’s random.

It may have an algorithm for how likely, but then it comes down to random whether you roll right to get it.

It may not be able to be predicted by you, but it is not random.
It’s like how to you, meteorites are random because you can’t predict when they will show up but to an astronomer or astrophysicist, the meteorites are completed scheduled.

Loot drops based on a formula. That formula is hidden from view and further veiled by an algorithm that selects a number to give it the appearance of randomness. It is not random though.

mtpelion.4562:

Lankybrit.4598:

What do you mean ‘Loot is not random’ with your definition of random.

It can’t be predicted, so it’s random.

It may have an algorithm for how likely, but then it comes down to random whether you roll right to get it.

It may not be able to be predicted by you, but it is not random.
It’s like how to you, meteorites are random because you can’t predict when they will show up but to an astronomer or astrophysicist, the meteorites are completed scheduled.

Loot drops based on a formula. That formula is hidden from view and further veiled by an algorithm that selects a number to give it the appearance of randomness. It is not random though.

dude its all RNG! random newbie can roll 4 rares and get precursor or few in a row i seen many people who did that and only had 2k achievement points

“Several computational methods for random number generation exist. Many fall short of the goal of true randomness — though they may meet, with varying success, some of the statistical tests for randomness intended to measure how unpredictable their results are (that is, to what degree their patterns are discernible). However, carefully designed cryptographically secure computationally based methods of generating random numbers do exist, such as those based on the Yarrow algorithm and the Fortuna (PRNG) and others.” – Wikipedia, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Random_number_generation

I don’t know whether or not Anet uses a method that passes or not, but I really don’t care. The problem is not the “randomness” of the RNG, it’s what people “feel” is fair. I decided a long time ago that I wouldn’t actively pursue a Legendary. Then I changed my mind. I have alternatives as well: craft an equal stat Ascended relatively easily (compared to crafting a Legendary) or else purchase the components of a Legendary or wait for a drop. I will be waiting for a long time if I choose the latter option.

All this is to say that based on the last year and a half of gameplay, it would make sense for Anet to institute a standard precursor award (random which one you get) at 10k achievement points because, if you got there, you worked for it. There are STILL all the level 6 mats required…plus 100 gold for 100 Icy Runestones. It’s not going to destroy the Legendary “effectiveness” if everyone obtains one every 10k achievement points – that’s a level playing field.

Precursors are like playing the Lotto.

The odds are astronomical to win.
And you know what? Someone still wins on a regular basis,

…..its just not going to be you XD

JCROY.5730:

Pie Flavor.1647:

JCROY.5730:

Pie Flavor.1647:

JCROY.5730:

Just for my info..why is having a legendary so important? Is it just the achievement? Is it the changeable stats? The looks?
As for the upper reasons, speaking for myself:
Achievement: I couldn’t care less
Changeable stats: Great…since it most of the time players choose to have assassin or berserker..and does it really hit that much harder then ascended/exotic?
Looks: I have greenies with better looks then the legendaries..but thats a matter of taste

So again..why is this so important?

human achievement is always relative to what others have acheived, also known as “bragging rights”

If everyone had a legendary, nobody would be making one. I reckon only 1% of the playerbase has a legendary, and that’s why people find it so important to have one, it’s the prestige, it’s the exclusivity.

I guess that 1% playerbase is in my guild…LOL

1% of 2 million players is around 20,000 players.

does your guild have 20,000 players?

Almost…LOL
No, but statistics of 1% don’t apply to my guild…We have around 200+ active members and I am sure at least 20 of them own a legendary..or even more then one.

I only know 2 people that have legendaries from dropped or forged pre-c. The rest were bought off the TP. I know a lot of people with legendaries or more than one.

Aidan Savage.2078:

Actually, it was probably a griefing thread from the start. Although I dont understand why people consistently use the mystic forge over and over week in and week out thinking their luck will change if it’s that bad. There are probably a couple people who dumped enough money into the forge to outright buy 2 legendaries already. Admit you have a gambling problem and just save the money you’d throw in the toilet and buy the precursor.

Because they aren’t dropping from playing the game and I’ll be kitten ed if I’m going to pay someone else for getting lucky. If I want something I’ll get it myself.

Aiden, I’m surprised we don’t hear more about this precursor rage in guild chat. =P I want to cheer you up and say you’ll get it eventually but the stats say you don’t have any more of a chance now than you did when you put those first 4 exos in the Mystic Toilet.

Nothing cheers up a legendary creator hunting a precursor more than a precursor drop. And yes, it IS like winning the lotto. Only problem is you’ll have dedicated people dropping in their chances to win in multiples (for greater chances of the #1 prize), and more often than not it will be the person that drops in a chance on a whim that will be the lucker of the hour.

Random? Absolutely.
Fair? Not a chance in hell.
Game-breaking? For people that have gone to such extraordinary lengths to try to acquire one, eventually yes.

For those that haven’t noticed, precursors are on the rise… again. Paying with either real money converted to gems, then to gold, or straight up with gold is a stupid way of doing it. You are paying for pixels. If that brings you enjoyment then good for you. However it fails to address the core issue of precursors — acquisition method alternatives — and the fact that no dev wants to go anywhere near a thread as hot and loaded as this is.

Why are people putting more gold into the MF than what precusors are worth…

PacoXI.7690:

Why are people putting more gold into the MF than what precusors are worth…

because people hope it will drop for them, not to pay for someone else’s drop.

Lightlord.4752:

Precursors are like playing the Lotto.

The odds are astronomical to win.
And you know what? Someone still wins on a regular basis,

…..its just not going to be you XD

Its like playing the Lotto for some people and for others its like playing Roulette in which they keep getting good drops.

Valandil Dragonhart.2371:

…
For those that haven’t noticed, precursors are on the rise… again. Paying with either real money converted to gems, then to gold, or straight up with gold is a stupid way of doing it. You are paying for pixels. If that brings you enjoyment then good for you. However it fails to address the core issue of precursors — acquisition method alternatives — and the fact that no dev wants to go anywhere near a thread as hot and loaded as this is.

Its like saying owners of art paying just for the paint. In any case you arent really paying for “the pixels” as Anet retains ownership.

SonOfJacob.7396:

I guess I’m just of the mindset that what you’re suggesting, while perhaps legendary in scope, is not what the devs are considering because it’s an entire revamp requiring a LOT of coding…my solution was meant to be simple for precursor attainment without solving further mat requirements or making it additionally complicated. After Jormag’s defeat, you need to talk to the NPC to buy 100 Icy Runestones (which is similar to part of your suggestion).

The only legendary content on the level you’re speaking of was the one-time Karka event on a Sunday back in November of 2012. I got a 20 slot inventory bag. That was cool. But if that’s the type of content you want, it can’t be based on RNG. Hence why I recommend the 10k achievement point level – it requires very little programming from Anet, puts a standard out there, lowers prices, and makes it achievable but not immediate FOR EVERYONE ACROSS THE BOARD.

Equalization – that’s what the core of the RNG issue is about. They don’t need to revamp the whole process. Just how to obtain the precursor.

Thus it was not stupid to save G and buy precursors off TP. My 2nd precursor Howl wasnt popular and I used AP money to buy it. If you want to know what bad luck is, the two times I opened the Karka chests I got the crappiest exos there were and didn’t see my first exo drop either from mobs or chests until 1500hrs in.

Subsequent patches did improve my loot table however but still nowhere as fantastic as some.

PS. IMHO its not just precursor acquisition that is the problem – its loot in general.

KraunK.2319:

I’m agree that people can craft their own precursor, in a long term and maybe gated 1 per 2 months or something with materials account bound.
I mean, drops in these games are based on luck, but when I heard that after 3000 4000 hours of playing people aren’t still able to drop it, it’s a shame.
Actually, I don’t care a lot about legendary, but people deserve to drop or make or whatever a precursor, after so many hours played.

Btw I’m quite sure that this RNG is related to the Gem Store.
I’ve put tons of rares in the forge,since I play GW2, never spent 1£ in the Gem Store and never drop it. Then…
I’ve noticed that after spend a good amount of money buying gems, the same day I’ve got a Dawn and a Dusk in the MT with like 250 rares and the following days my drop rate was enourmously increased, exotics and rares from trash.
I don’t usually spend money on the gem store so it was obviously evident this change.
After 1 months I put over 1000s rares in one day and nothing, few trash exotics.
So I don’t know, there is something dirty.

Not true, I spent about 2’000€ on gems and never got a precursor, even when I put hundreds of staves into the forge.

Don’t forget about the Economy manipulators, that are forcing precursors to go to absurd prices, buying all the stock, days ago i saw some going from 500g to 900g just because.

And yes ANet, of course game is big enough to not be possible to manipulate economy… tell that to the guilds dedicated to spend dozens of thousands of gold on TP.

Max Lexandre.6279:

Don’t forget about the Economy manipulators, that are forcing precursors to go to absurd prices, buying all the stock, days ago i saw some going from 500g to 900g just because.

And yes ANet, of course game is big enough to not be possible to manipulate economy… tell that to the guilds dedicated to spend dozens of thousands of gold on TP.

It’s not economy manipulators. If you’d read the blogs instead of put on the tinfoil, you’d realize the surge in prec prices is because of the fact that by crafting one, you can give ALL your characters the look of a legendary. That’s what’s driving the uptick in prices.