Guild Wars 2

haviz.1340:

So what exactly is the incentive for people to complete such content?

I couldn’t resist.

I have been saying for a while that Gw1 high level content is rewarding.

Hence you could conclude that something rewarding for me would be similar to the reward we could get in Gw1.

First of all, I could repeat that content as much as I wanted to get my rewards.

Secondly, the end chest reward was useful toward something (high end armor in terms of cosmetics)

And also you should note that the progression was almost strictly horizontal in gw1.

But in Gw2, is it vertical or horizontal? I don’t know. And is the content rewarding and useful toward something? Well not really.

Boneheart.3561:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KqhfLTsEeZg

I couldn’t resist.

The reason why pvp was abandoned by a vast amount of people is because it lacked any incentive to get better. People need incentive, otherwise content you designed for skilled people will be abandoned faster than you realise.

And yes, I want profitable hard content, similarly to what pvp-ers want when they are asking for better rewards for high ranked (on leaderboard) players because it doesn’t matter if you are in top10 or in top 10%, the reward is same.

Boneheart.3561:

Somethings that are difficult, non-farmable, and lucrative? You want money for skill, with little time invested.

Never said ‘non-farmable’, I’ve said ‘non mindless farming’. Besides, to get skill you have to invest some time.

haviz.1340:

Boneheart.3561:

Somethings that are difficult, non-farmable, and lucrative? You want money for skill, with little time invested.

Never said ‘non-farmable’, I’ve said ‘non mindless farming’. Besides, to get skill you have to invest some time.

And I am pretty that people would indeed invest more and more time toward perfecting their skills for harder content if there was an incentive to do so ie: Better rewards.

A R W E N.6895:

First of all, I could repeat that content as much as I wanted to get my rewards.

Secondly, the end chest reward was useful toward something (high end armor in terms of cosmetics)

GW2 dungeons and fractals provide tokens that work in exactly the same way. Try again.

A R W E N.6895:

I have been saying for a while that Gw1 high level content is rewarding.

Hence you could conclude that something rewarding for me would be similar to the reward we could get in Gw1.

First of all, I could repeat that content as much as I wanted to get my rewards.

Secondly, the end chest reward was useful toward something (high end armor in terms of cosmetics)

Reward is subjective, please elaborate.

We had repeatable dungeons, but that was done away with for the better. I don’t see that being reversed, ever, so you should probably drop this game. Unless you want to organize Boss Blitz, but I think you mentioned before these are too easy?

End chest rewards varied, your view may be skewed. From my gameplay, Domain of Anguish Hard Mode was easy and a total grind. Time-consuming as hell half the time, for little pay-off. Fissure of Woe was too demanding, I felt somewhat useless, and Underworld I could never hope to finish. ArenaNet dropped the ball on those two (four, I guess, I vaguely remembering being barely of use in Urgoz Warren and The Deep), I was furious about the design.

Sounds like you want something different, something this game will never offer you. And it doesn’t help that others on your side are terrible at wording their issues and thus not helping your argument.

So you want more difficulty than is currently offered. Yeah, drop this game.

haviz.1340:

Boneheart.3561:

Somethings that are difficult, non-farmable, and lucrative? You want money for skill, with little time invested.

Never said ‘non-farmable’, I’ve said ‘non mindless farming’. Besides, to get skill you have to invest some time.

No you didn’t. You mentioned farming derogatorily, but now that you’ve cleared that up: time-investing (I don’t actually think you meant to include this, but to clarify with an example, you want to spend five hours in a dungeon/area? We just wanna get to the heart of what you want), farmable and skill-based, lucrative?

A R W E N.6895:

I have been saying for a while that Gw1 high level content is rewarding.

Hence you could conclude that something rewarding for me would be similar to the reward we could get in Gw1.

First of all, I could repeat that content as much as I wanted to get my rewards.

Secondly, the end chest reward was useful toward something (high end armor in terms of cosmetics)

And also you should note that the progression was almost strictly horizontal in gw1.

But in Gw2, is it vertical or horizontal? I don’t know. And is the content rewarding and useful toward something? Well not really.

That like saying high level content of D2 is rewarding ya you can get really cool things but for the most part your just rewarding your self in an mostly single player game to show off to a forum not an in game effect. GW1 was not an mmorpg or at least it was a mainly instals mmorpg making it less meaningful that you got something or not and less damaging to the system if you got a lot of gold or a lot of one item because there was no really economically. Its like some facebook game of farming you got corn to grow and other ppl can see it but the fact that you got corn dose not effect other ppl getting that corn nor dose it effect the worth of that corn if you could sell it.

GW2 is very open any bit of new gear items gold etc… effect every thing else in the game. To throw is super hard content that is the “best” or at least near best (to make up for the cost of running the event in terms of rewards) it makes other events all the lesser and the ppl who cant do such evens lesser for playing the game. You can have hard events in GW2 but they will not be more rewarding in terms of items the reward is the fact that you can do them or get to that level of play such as we see in high level fractals and the mega boss.

The way other games do this is having a treadmill for gear to get to the next level to get more gear to get to the next level etc.. making the gear the main cost and reward to do events.

Dunno what you’re looking for but I just do whatever I feel like as the mood strikes, be is LS content or otherwise, and it’s been fine and dandy for me so far.

you think we need end game content, what you need is end game prospect dont get your socks wet and dont fret im so cool like an ice cube from the vent

A R W E N.6895:

I have been saying for a while that Gw1 high level content is rewarding.

Hence you could conclude that something rewarding for me would be similar to the reward we could get in Gw1.

First of all, I could repeat that content as much as I wanted to get my rewards.

Secondly, the end chest reward was useful toward something (high end armor in terms of cosmetics)

And also you should note that the progression was almost strictly horizontal in gw1.

But in Gw2, is it vertical or horizontal? I don’t know. And is the content rewarding and useful toward something? Well not really.

Sounds like the solution is simple for you. Play GW1.

Sartharina.3542:

Tumla.7231:

Unfortunately I think the only High End game rewarding content won’t be in Gw2 but in Wildstar. That’s what NCSOFT has decided.

NCSoft has only minimum control over the content of their MMOs. It doesn’t have the authority to dictate what game focuses on what content – that is up to the discretion of the developing team. NCSoft only steps in if the change is predicted to cost them significant money (Such as rating-breaking content, or cutting out a revenue stream)

Guild Wars 2 and Wildstar don’t even compete for the same customers. One is a fantasy MMO in a dramatic painting. The other is a Sci-Fi MMO set in a cartoonish, cell-shaded world.

Ouimette.5902:

Legendary: Gold farm
Ascended Gear: Gold farm
Cultural armor: Gold farm
F****N MINI PETS:… gold farm.

Outside of the cultural armor, gear is only a “Gold Farm” if you have no desire to play the content that awards the stuff normally and more efficiently. Yes, you can buy a legendary – but it’s cheaper and less time-consuming to make it yourself. Same with Ascended Gear.

not really cheaper and less time consuming unless you arent good at making money. A farmer can probably get enough money for a legendary in 4 weeks, a TP player? depends on the tp player, but the top guys could get it pretty fast.

Teon.5168:

Sounds like the solution is simple for you. Play GW1.

There are a few of us who would LOVE to go back to GW1, but guess what? GW1 hasn’t had ANYTHING new in years because of THIS GAME. I’ve done literally everything in GW1 multiple times, just how I’m guessing many of the people who want some GW1 aspects in GW2 have also done everything a bunch.

That doesn’t mean I don’t completely love GW2, because I do. The base gameplay is perfect IMO, but what it lacks is new stuff. 2 years of doing the same stuff over and over again? Yep gets boring. I have some hope(see nearly zero) that the LS2 will give us new content to play, including more end game stuff like dungeons, Competitive missions, 8-12 man Elite missions like The Deep and Urgoz, and something that would literally make me throw money at my computer screen, UW and FoW.

seriously dude, dont even bother posting this kind of thread.
there are far too many hurdles that one should overcome for their complaint to be acknowledged.
• first, the low low chance of a dev/staff from anet to ever read your post.
• second, if your post is worded right and if the argument is something valid.
• third, the amount of people with the ‘im okay with the state of things so everyone else should be okay with it too. your post is irrelevant’ kind of mindset who will flood your thread with arrogant and condescending posts.

basically, the second is greatly determined on how many posts of the people from the third are read by the first. those people who claim to be of a neutral stance but weirdly, they wildly abhor any and all ‘complaint’ posts especially if theyre first, against anet and second, if theyre not experiencing it themselves. its that ‘since there’s no war in my country, then the wars in other countries must also be false’ way of thinking

A R W E N.6895:

I have been saying for a while that Gw1 high level content is rewarding. Hence you could conclude that something rewarding for me would be similar to the reward we could get in Gw1. First of all, I could repeat that content as much as I wanted to get my rewards. Secondly, the end chest reward was useful toward something (high end armor in terms of cosmetics) And also you should note that the progression was almost strictly horizontal in gw1. But in Gw2, is it vertical or horizontal? I don’t know. And is the content rewarding and useful toward something? Well not really.

THE SAME

• Both games have incremental rewards (Joy! I got another few T6 mats, or more gold towards the 1000’s needed).
• Both games have RNG based rewards.
• Both games have small group, instance based content.

DIFFERENT

• While both games have RNG, the RNG rewards in GW2 are underwhelming. One has to get lucky through multiple “rolls” to get something worthwhile, and even then it’s not really worth that much — unless perhaps it’s a precursor, though I wouldn’t know about that.
• GW incremental rewards consisted only of armor skins. The best GW2 rewards are all incremental (Legendary, Ascended) and include all equipment. The only ones that are RNG based are a scattering of skins, including fractal weapons, and Precursors — which are also incremental if you buy them.
• At least some of the drops in GW generated a sense of, “Wow, look what I got!” I’ve never gotten that feeling in GW2. Heck, gold weapon drops in GW generated a feeling of, “Nice!” In GW2, they’re worth 20-30 silver, and not worth getting excited about.
• GW high-level content was all smallish-group instanced. GW2’s is mostly persistent world, with groups sizes up to 150. The exception to this in GW2 is dungeons. However, dungeons have been plumbed to death at this point, and have been left to rot on the vine.
• While the reward systems in both games tend to favor those who make a greater time commitment to the game, GW reward system also favored those who completed specific content. In GW2, only the fractal weapon skins, the specific drops from Wurm, Teq, TA/EP and dungeon skins (if there’s anyone who doesn’t have the ones they want yet) drop from specific permanent content.
• Finally, GW2 features time-gating that was not a factor in GW.

A R W E N.6895:

I have been saying for a while that Gw1 high level content is rewarding.

Hence you could conclude that something rewarding for me would be similar to the reward we could get in Gw1.

First of all, I could repeat that content as much as I wanted to get my rewards.

Secondly, the end chest reward was useful toward something (high end armor in terms of cosmetics)

And also you should note that the progression was almost strictly horizontal in gw1.

But in Gw2, is it vertical or horizontal? I don’t know. And is the content rewarding and useful toward something? Well not really.

Define rewarding.

Let me elaborate, since you’re not doing so. I found most of the “rewarding” nature in the games I play is not the cool awesome items or vertical progression. It’s having done it, usually with friends I could enjoy playing with because they liked poking fun at the ranger whose job was to avoid a total wipe by running away from the battle if it went south and popping a Res Scroll

It was the event, the journey. I prize the final victory we got over Dhuum because it was after about seven attempts which failed either on the Chaos Planes or at the Ice King. (Also because my pet with Great Dwarf Weapon pretty much made it trivial.) I enjoyed Vanquish runs because that was an hour and a half with friends basically just relaxing and maybe possibly having a drinking game involved.

I really prize when I got my brother into the game and the two of us blew through Nightfall in a month.

Obsidian Armor? Eternal Sword? Awesome minis? Don’t really care. I think Obby is ugly on almost all classes (and too understated on others), the Eternal Sword is useless when I main a ranger, and I hit my quota of minis just through alts and collecting their gifts each year.

Tormented weapons I really do want if only because they’re probably the easiest way to fill my Hall section, but I couldn’t get into farm groups, didn’t feel like pushing friends to do it, and that left the final option of “buy them” so I just decided it wasn’t worth my time/money.

And that’s where GW2’s “endgame loot” is too – it’s similarly not awesome enough to get me to want to drive myself to get it. Now . . . the titles on the other hand . . .

Boneheart.3561:

No you didn’t. You mentioned farming derogatorily, but now that you’ve cleared that up: time-investing (I don’t actually think you meant to include this, but to clarify with an example, you want to spend five hours in a dungeon/area? We just wanna get to the heart of what you want), farmable and skill-based, lucrative?

What I meant by ‘mindless farming’ (like old champ trains) is that in gw2 you can shut off your brain and get more money than someone who does ’ less mindless farming’ (dungeons). Let’s say someone might start farming TA Aether path to finally farm those lucrative weapons that sell as much as some precursors. Problem is, the drop rate is so severely abyssal you can most likely farm your gold elsewhere via ‘mindless farming’ and buy it of tp. In this example, ‘less mindless farming’ is not encouraged at all.

Dungeons should be longer than 10 minutes but let’s not go from one extreme to another. Difficulty doesn’t derive from length but in gw2 case, when boss fights can take as fast as 10 seconds, it blurs the difficulty.

Ben K.6238:

GW2 dungeons and fractals provide tokens that work in exactly the same way. Try again.

I’d like to hear more about those fractals tokens that can be used to buy fractals skins. That I could sell to get money.

I think the correct question here is:

Where is the Underworld?

http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Underworld

Where is our epic boss battle with Dhuum, and our collectable end game armor?

Mad Queen Malafide.7512:

I think the correct question here is:

Where is the Underworld?

http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Underworld

Where is our epic boss battle with Dhuum, and our collectable end game armor?

I’d rather it be Fissure of Woe with Menzies. You know, something new

I’d rather have something new that is challenging and rewarding and that fits in the Gw2 lore.

UW, Fow and doa are just examples of how that content should be in term of difficulty and reward.

A R W E N.6895:

I have been saying for a while that Gw1 high level content is rewarding.

Hence you could conclude that something rewarding for me would be similar to the reward we could get in Gw1.

First of all, I could repeat that content as much as I wanted to get my rewards.

Secondly, the end chest reward was useful toward something (high end armor in terms of cosmetics)

And also you should note that the progression was almost strictly horizontal in gw1.

But in Gw2, is it vertical or horizontal? I don’t know. And is the content rewarding and useful toward something? Well not really.

statements like "I have been saying for a while that Gw1 high level content is rewarding. " aren’t very useful because there are an infinite number of ways how that can be interpreted and it tells us nothing of what you’re looking for.

Was UW rewarding for you because:
- It has difficult content and you love difficult content
- You dreamt of owning ectos since you were a child and finally you found a place where they dropped
- You find the art style of the area satisfying
- you enjoy the team dynamics and co-ordination required there
- you love repeatable quests and there are a bunch there
- Since you were born you wanted nothing else but to kill [repeat for every single foe you can find there] and now you feel rewarded each time you get slay one.
- You always wanted to own [repeat for every single unique reward you can find in UW] and now you finally have a chance to own one.
- You always wanted to fight along side King Frozenwind and now you finally can
- You can make more money per hour then other places
- You can actually be beaten here occationally unlike other regular zones
- You actually have to pay to get here and you find that satisfying
- You always wanted to have your very own black widow pet
- You get to enjoy seeing gwen talking with her mother
- etc… same thing for all the other elite areas you enjoy.

see what I mean by general statements are unhelpful how is anyone to know what exactly you’re looking for it can literally be everything!

A R W E N.6895:

haviz.1340:

Boneheart.3561:

Somethings that are difficult, non-farmable, and lucrative? You want money for skill, with little time invested.

Never said ‘non-farmable’, I’ve said ‘non mindless farming’. Besides, to get skill you have to invest some time.

And I am pretty that people would indeed invest more and more time toward perfecting their skills for harder content if there was an incentive to do so ie: Better rewards.

But what makes for better rewards? Is it unique skins? more valuable items? Chances for a precursor drops? what are we talking about exactly? cause it makes a huge difference! if we’re talking about more money then it might be fine, if we’re talking about unique stuff you can only get by playing this type of hard content only a few can manage then it goes against what arenanet are trying to accomplish and thats a problem.

That is why we’ve repeatedly told you to be specific better rewards means different things to different people!

Ashkael.2859:

‘since there’s no war in my country, then the wars in other countries must also be false’ way of thinking

I wouldnt say its that at all. If you disagree with a proposal you’re not going to support it just because someone brought it up. And thats where the 2nd point you made becomes very important. When you’re vague on what you want its much harder to have people who already might disagree with your premise to support you.

Going with your example though war is probably not an ideal subject but anyhow…

If person B comes you and says you know we need a war in our because that will fix things. I would imagine your first instinct will be no just no wars are bad. your second impulse might be to ask why they want a war if they keep repeating because it will do good it will very unlikely change your opinion. However if they go into specifics and explain say Government is doing this atrocities or there is this extreme injustice going on and such things then you could perhaps suggest an alternative or even actually support the original war premise in extreme cases.

People dont change their opinion based on generic premises controversial matters need to be tackled on specifics else how can you compromise?

Ben K.6238:

A R W E N.6895:

First of all, I could repeat that content as much as I wanted to get my rewards.

Secondly, the end chest reward was useful toward something (high end armor in terms of cosmetics)

GW2 dungeons and fractals provide tokens that work in exactly the same way. Try again.

I was having a similar discussion with a friend.

turns out, they’d be happy to run the dungeon 15 times at a ‘chance’ for a cool item, instead of 15 times, for a definite cool item, the definite….makes it farming..and isnt fun.

to that… all I have is… .. ~o0’~ …..

Except for WvW I don’t think there is real end-game content (well grinding gold) and the end-game rewards are mainly in the TP or shortcuts are provided with the TP (!got to love cash-shops). However they did say that in season two they would add in more repayable challenging content all with it’s own rewards. Lets just hope that’s not all single-player stuff but maybe also dungeon or raid-like content and that the rewards are superior to what they put in the TP (else the whole point of rewarding is gone). So with a little bid of luck as of July 1st we should start seeing some end-game.

haviz.1340:

Boneheart.3561:

No you didn’t. You mentioned farming derogatorily, but now that you’ve cleared that up: time-investing (I don’t actually think you meant to include this, but to clarify with an example, you want to spend five hours in a dungeon/area? We just wanna get to the heart of what you want), farmable and skill-based, lucrative?

What I meant by ‘mindless farming’…

… let’s not go from one extreme to another.

I didn’t ask you any of that and you haven’t addressed the subject. But let’s pretend you typed ‘yes’: you want fights to last longer, I’ll assume you don’t just want an increase in health, but moments where the boss requires some mechanic to make him vulnerable or take different damage, maybe even just becomes unattackable. Or just improved AI?
You want to be able to do this all day, in one area/zone/instance.
And you can’t just be familiar with your profession, but not necessarily “breathe” it. It should require a firm grasp on the ins and outs of what you play?
Finally, no matter how long farmers scour an area or zone, every loop/run-through of the content you want will net you more gold/potential gold than any of the content currently available, correct?

A R W E N.6895:

So yeah, my daily thought…

Where is my high level end game rewarding content ive been waiting for so long?

Am I in the wrong game?

Keep waiting.

Mad Queen Malafide.7512:

I think the correct question here is:

Where is the Underworld?

http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Underworld

Where is our epic boss battle with Dhuum, and our collectable end game armor?

Dhuum was sealed away two-hundred, fifty years ago. It took him more than one-thousand years to break his seal, and I don’t think there’s many creatures to die in the Underworld for him to collect power anymore.

Boneheart.3561:

haviz.1340:

Boneheart.3561:

No you didn’t. You mentioned farming derogatorily, but now that you’ve cleared that up: time-investing (I don’t actually think you meant to include this, but to clarify with an example, you want to spend five hours in a dungeon/area? We just wanna get to the heart of what you want), farmable and skill-based, lucrative?

What I meant by ‘mindless farming’…

… let’s not go from one extreme to another.

I didn’t ask you any of that and you haven’t addressed the subject. But let’s pretend you typed ‘yes’: you want fights to last longer, I’ll assume you don’t just want an increase in health, but moments where the boss requires some mechanic to make him vulnerable or take different damage, maybe even just becomes unattackable. Or just improved AI?
You want to be able to do this all day, in one area/zone/instance.
And you can’t just be familiar with your profession, but not necessarily “breathe” it. It should require a firm grasp on the ins and outs of what you play?
Finally, no matter how long farmers scour an area or zone, every loop/run-through of the content you want will net you more gold/potential gold than any of the content currently available, correct?

Why talk about gold? The whole gold-grind element is why so many people find GW2 boring (warned Anet about that for a long time). Talk about special content-specific cool unique or rare rewards.

Devata.6589:

Boneheart.3561:

haviz.1340:

Boneheart.3561:

No you didn’t. You mentioned farming derogatorily, but now that you’ve cleared that up: time-investing (I don’t actually think you meant to include this, but to clarify with an example, you want to spend five hours in a dungeon/area? We just wanna get to the heart of what you want), farmable and skill-based, lucrative?

What I meant by ‘mindless farming’…

… let’s not go from one extreme to another.

I didn’t ask you any of that and you haven’t addressed the subject. But let’s pretend you typed ‘yes’: you want fights to last longer, I’ll assume you don’t just want an increase in health, but moments where the boss requires some mechanic to make him vulnerable or take different damage, maybe even just becomes unattackable. Or just improved AI?
You want to be able to do this all day, in one area/zone/instance.
And you can’t just be familiar with your profession, but not necessarily “breathe” it. It should require a firm grasp on the ins and outs of what you play?
Finally, no matter how long farmers scour an area or zone, every loop/run-through of the content you want will net you more gold/potential gold than any of the content currently available, correct?

Why talk about gold? The whole gold-grind element is why so many people find GW2 boring (warned Anet about that for a long time). Talk about special content-specific cool unique or rare rewards.

He wants more gold than zerg farming can muster. I imagine that wouldn’t be akin to the “gold-grind element”.
We already get those rewards.

sirflamesword.3896:

Teon.5168:

Sounds like the solution is simple for you. Play GW1.

There are a few of us who would LOVE to go back to GW1, but guess what? GW1 hasn’t had ANYTHING new in years because of THIS GAME. I’ve done literally everything in GW1 multiple times, just how I’m guessing many of the people who want some GW1 aspects in GW2 have also done everything a bunch.

That doesn’t mean I don’t completely love GW2, because I do. The base gameplay is perfect IMO, but what it lacks is new stuff. 2 years of doing the same stuff over and over again? Yep gets boring. I have some hope(see nearly zero) that the LS2 will give us new content to play, including more end game stuff like dungeons, Competitive missions, 8-12 man Elite missions like The Deep and Urgoz, and something that would literally make me throw money at my computer screen, UW and FoW.

I must be playing a different game than you have been playing. In the last 2 years, there has been plenty of new stuff in GW2 to satisfy me.

But then again, I only play an average of 10-15 hours a week(if that). Maybe you play a lot more than I do. I will admit that if I played 30-40 hours a week or more, I would get bored with the game, too…….but if I played that much, that would be the case with any game, not just GW2.

Teon.5168:

sirflamesword.3896:

Teon.5168:

Sounds like the solution is simple for you. Play GW1.

There are a few of us who would LOVE to go back to GW1, but guess what? GW1 hasn’t had ANYTHING new in years because of THIS GAME. I’ve done literally everything in GW1 multiple times, just how I’m guessing many of the people who want some GW1 aspects in GW2 have also done everything a bunch.

That doesn’t mean I don’t completely love GW2, because I do. The base gameplay is perfect IMO, but what it lacks is new stuff. 2 years of doing the same stuff over and over again? Yep gets boring. I have some hope(see nearly zero) that the LS2 will give us new content to play, including more end game stuff like dungeons, Competitive missions, 8-12 man Elite missions like The Deep and Urgoz, and something that would literally make me throw money at my computer screen, UW and FoW.

I must be playing a different game than you have been playing. In the last 2 years, there has been plenty of new stuff in GW2 to satisfy me.

But then again, I only play an average of 10-15 hours a week(if that). Maybe you play a lot more than I do. I will admit that if I played 30-40 hours a week or more, I would get bored with the game, too…….but if I played that much, that would be the case with any game, not just GW2.

I have a similar schedule than you, but I have the feeling like Ive went through everything that is supposed to be challenging.

And with less than 1000hours played since the beginning, I am extremely bored with the current content of the game.

A R W E N.6895:

Teon.5168:

sirflamesword.3896:

Teon.5168:

Sounds like the solution is simple for you. Play GW1.

There are a few of us who would LOVE to go back to GW1, but guess what? GW1 hasn’t had ANYTHING new in years because of THIS GAME. I’ve done literally everything in GW1 multiple times, just how I’m guessing many of the people who want some GW1 aspects in GW2 have also done everything a bunch.

That doesn’t mean I don’t completely love GW2, because I do. The base gameplay is perfect IMO, but what it lacks is new stuff. 2 years of doing the same stuff over and over again? Yep gets boring. I have some hope(see nearly zero) that the LS2 will give us new content to play, including more end game stuff like dungeons, Competitive missions, 8-12 man Elite missions like The Deep and Urgoz, and something that would literally make me throw money at my computer screen, UW and FoW.

I must be playing a different game than you have been playing. In the last 2 years, there has been plenty of new stuff in GW2 to satisfy me.

But then again, I only play an average of 10-15 hours a week(if that). Maybe you play a lot more than I do. I will admit that if I played 30-40 hours a week or more, I would get bored with the game, too…….but if I played that much, that would be the case with any game, not just GW2.

I have a similar schedule than you, but I have the feeling like Ive went through everything that is supposed to be challenging.

And with less than 1000hours played since the beginning, I am extremely bored with the current content of the game.

The game most definitely lacks challenging content no going to argue against that. What I do is I create my own challenge. Try to solo group events or even just under gear yourself on purpose. Now I understand there is a huge problem here if you value extrinsic rewards more then intrinsic ones so I am not claim this to be the perfect solution just a possibility.

It works really well in those LS events most people considered zergy. It was a ton of fun handling clockwork invasion events with 2 – 3 people or roaming around Escape from LA solo or with just 1 other player.

Again not the prefect solution,there is definitely work to be done here and Anet understand that too and promised to give us more challenging content in S2 which is great.

Rewards should scale appropriately to difficulty so people have actual incentive to get better and more skilled.
Zerg farming should never be more rewarding than FOTM 49.

Arwen, we had quite some disagreements around here, but in one thing we are quite similar: This game is neither for you nor me. Look for another game, you will not believe how good it feels setting yourself free of GW2 (well, as far as game investment goes – my overall happyness does not depend on it :P).

I have to agree with A R W E N.

I played less than 300 hours and got bored just so quickly that I decided to move to another game.

Nick.6972:

Rewards should scale appropriately to difficulty so people have actual incentive to get better and more skilled.
Zerg farming should never be more rewarding than FOTM 49.

Totally agree with the bold but….
Unfortunely, the philosophy for GW2 is all about the casuals….

If bigger and better rewards are gated behind actually difficult, time consuming content, majority of this games playerbase will be in outrage , ergo we will never see this type of challenging, demanding content that has unique rewards catered towards hardcore players.
If casuals can’t get a certain thing, they will cry till the worlds end until its fair for them.
You are asking for increased in difficulty =increase in rewards . This won’t happen unfortunately, as much as I would love it it. Now of course there are some casual players out there that would still love to see more challenging content that has better rewards than mindless zerg farming, but I just don’t think the majority of the playerbase will get behind this change of reward philosophy.

Galen Grey.4709:

A R W E N.6895:

That is true, and they should give an incentive for player to go toward the harder content.

It is not that easy. Contrary to what a lot of people believe Anet really made a game where you dont have to grind for anything. You can enjoy the whole game by just playing what content you want. You dont need ascended gear, you dont need exotic gear. Even rares are optional really. That requires a few things that are at odds with what you suggest. Mainly that content has to be doable using greens and blues which in turn means that people in ascended gear more or less have kitten statistical advantage over people who play casually and dont see Best in Slot.

That makes it essentially very problematic to do what you suggest. If they make hard content that has unique rewards then they have to make it hard for people with BiS gear which essentially becomes impossible for people who are at 1/2 stength because they dont have good gear. In turn that would mean that without BiS you’re cut out of certain rewards which in turn breaks their promise.

Likewise if they do hard content that still rewards the same stuff as everything else no one will do that hard content since it will turn out to be more profitable to do the quick easy content every time.

Before you read, forgive me for the long post.

I have to agree AND disagree with you on that. While the game is set out to be a very casual game there’s always room for improvement amongst us players. Casuals and elitist likewise. There should be an incentive to go for the harder content or “un-familiar” content in the game. And here I agree with you. Gear should not be a requirement but more or less the reliability on a players movement and understandment of the mechanics that happens around him/her. It may sound way more harder than it actually is but when you think about it, the game in its current state is heavily focused on corner stacking and FGS #4(in the instanced content).

So then we have the two MEGA-bosses. Tequatl and the 3-headed wurm. Sure there’s an incentive to go for that content. But it’s all about luck pretty much where a person might be doing one of these 2 contents for first time and get a skin drop. This is something I’m personally against. But the main point of the content is not about the drop, it’s about fun. Right? But once you’ve done it 75+ times. It’s more of a habit than enjoyment to do it. I will eventually get bored of the content since the fun is slowly getting away and the lack of slow progression towards a skin replaced by a ridiculous rng is really not enough to keep a player going. Because the drop is more of a bonus while doing the enjoyable content.

So I get burned out. What do I do? I take a break of course! And this is where I’d say ArenaNet fails with a large portion of their lvl80+ content. The game fails to deliver an incentive to keep a player going. The fun doesn’t last forever. The living story is a really innovative idea though and I’m curious about how different LS season 2 will be from season 1.

But then again as I mentioned in my previous post in this thread, I will bring it up regarding what you said about profit. If I would do the harder content(if it will ever come into the game), it should only be focused on the prestige of doing it. Not financially. The game has been so heavily focused on just making gold or getting mats that pretty much everything can more or less be accessible in the game purely through purchases with gold. Even dungeon skins since you can buy tokens through dungeon selling.

Just a quick example of what I’m trying to say.

Easy dungeon reward: 1,5G, Blood dripping sword(after 300 tokens)
Medium dungeon reward: 1,5G, Blood dripping sword/w teeth(after 300 tokens)
Harder dungeon reward: 1,5G, Dragon jaw sword with dripping blood(after 300 tokens)

The time invested and skill required in the harder dungeons should be substantially more than the easy dungeon. But it should NOT be relying on what gear you have. If a new players comes to the game and sees another player wearing a really cool looking armor along with a really awesome looking weapon. Which answer is best when he/she asks how that player got that?

“Yeah well he beat the “Dark Matter Dragon” in the dungeon “A Rip in Space” , it takes a while to get but it looks pretty cool doesn’kitten"
or
“Yeah well you can just buy it from the gem store. It’s actually on a 20% sale right now.”

Guild Wars 2 is not about gear treadmills. Treadmills are instead replaced by cosmetics. But the lack of new cosmetics in the game accessible only by playing is kind of depressing if you compare it to the constantly new things added to the gem store and Black Lion Chests.

And since the game doesn’t have a monthly subscription it can somewhat be relatable to a free2play and those game are very often pay2win since they are focused around gear treadmills. But GW2 doesn’t have that, it has cosmetics. So instead of a pay2win we get a pay2look.

An MMORPG should be fun to play. That almost goes without saying. But it cannot sustain a long lifetime purely through casual gameplay. It really needs harder content with an incentive to replay it to make players stay. Now don’t get me wrong, I do hope ArenaNet proves me wrong, I really do, and I wish them good luck in that case. But for me, an active player since release to roughly a month back, these are the changes I’d wish to see if I would resume my active playing again into GW2.

tl;dr
There’s no tl;dr.

A R W E N.6895:

But its crazy how every other mmo, and even Gw1 had challenging and rewarding end game content. And yet, Gw2 fails miserably at pouring out such content.

The only thing ‘crazy’ about that is people can’t break away from rehashed routines that make that challenging and rewarding end game content of all those other MMO’s boring tired after doing it again and again. GW2 approach to end game is a breathe of fresh air.

Obtena.7952:

A R W E N.6895:

But its crazy how every other mmo, and even Gw1 had challenging and rewarding end game content. And yet, Gw2 fails miserably at pouring out such content.

The only thing ‘crazy’ about that is people can’t break away from rehashed routines that make that challenging and rewarding end game content of all those other MMO’s boring tired after doing it again and again. GW2 approach to end game is a breathe of fresh air.

The irony is most GW2 players are actually the one doing the same dungeon and world boss everyday over and over again.

And those people playing those “other” game probably didn’t do the same dungeon over 10 times. Thank god for 1 week cooldown.

Anyway you are playing the game wrong OP. The game is what it is. If it’s not there, it’s not there.

Im still waiting for DX 11 and Engine improvements….

I’m waiting for the next living story.

If the OP is waiting for better end game content in a game without end game content, his expectation is probably too high.

Obtena.7952:

A R W E N.6895:

But its crazy how every other mmo, and even Gw1 had challenging and rewarding end game content. And yet, Gw2 fails miserably at pouring out such content.

The only thing ‘crazy’ about that is people can’t break away from rehashed routines that make that challenging and rewarding end game content of all those other MMO’s boring tired after doing it again and again. GW2 approach to end game is a breathe of fresh air.

So we got the same boring and rehashed content, but none of the challenge. What is the breath of fresh air?
Dont think of raids, because people arent asking for raids
what is the nice cool part about GW2 not having content that has a deep level of challenge, and not having progress (doesnt even need to be better stats)of some sort attached to meeting that challenge

SkiTz.4590:

Nick.6972:

Rewards should scale appropriately to difficulty so people have actual incentive to get better and more skilled.
Zerg farming should never be more rewarding than FOTM 49.

Totally agree with the bold but….
Unfortunely, the philosophy for GW2 is all about the casuals….

If bigger and better rewards are gated behind actually difficult, time consuming content, majority of this games playerbase will be in outrage , ergo we will never see this type of challenging, demanding content that has unique rewards catered towards hardcore players.
If casuals can’t get a certain thing, they will cry till the worlds end until its fair for them.
You are asking for increased in difficulty =increase in rewards . This won’t happen unfortunately, as much as I would love it it. Now of course there are some casual players out there that would still love to see more challenging content that has better rewards than mindless zerg farming, but I just don’t think the majority of the playerbase will get behind this change of reward philosophy.

Come on, as if ‘casuals’ prefer boringly grinding for gold, there is a small group of people who like that but it can not be defined as ‘casuals’. In fact Anet also does not want people to like grinding for gold because else people would have less incentive to buy gold with money.

Time-gating or requiring a tier-grind and locking content behind that (what FotM is btw) might be something ‘casuals’ dislike. But I don’t think you will hear a lot of complains by locking items behind specific hard content. It’s something also casuals can always work towards. Now I don’t know how you define ‘casuals’. Is it somebody mainly looking for horizontal progression or somebody who does not put a lot of time into the game or someone who does not want the hard content? But anyway I don’t think you would get a lot of complains, and many items would still be available with gold-grind if people would really prefer that.

Some drops might be account-bound so you could only get it by playing that content but all the specific drops behind hard content that are not account-bound will just as well find there way to the TP meaning you can still boringly grind gold for them. If anything, people complain about how boring GW2 is. Now the gold-grind is a big part of that so acting as if casuals would only like it that way is wrong imho.

SkiTz.4590:

Nick.6972:

Rewards should scale appropriately to difficulty so people have actual incentive to get better and more skilled.
Zerg farming should never be more rewarding than FOTM 49.

Totally agree with the bold but….
Unfortunely, the philosophy for GW2 is all about the casuals….

If bigger and better rewards are gated behind actually difficult, time consuming content, majority of this games playerbase will be in outrage , ergo we will never see this type of challenging, demanding content that has unique rewards catered towards hardcore players.
If casuals can’t get a certain thing, they will cry till the worlds end until its fair for them.
You are asking for increased in difficulty =increase in rewards . This won’t happen unfortunately, as much as I would love it it. Now of course there are some casual players out there that would still love to see more challenging content that has better rewards than mindless zerg farming, but I just don’t think the majority of the playerbase will get behind this change of reward philosophy.

yes and no

I mean as long as the rewards arent unique it will not be a problem. Lets say they do hardcore dungeons that still reward the same stuff like the regular dungeons only you get x2 the tokens and x2 the gold. That would be fine. It would be a problem if hardcore dungeons dropped skins that arent available anywhere else for example.

That being said there another problem with inflation. Farming is already way too profitable and introducing content thats more profitable than that will make an already bad problem worst. So what really needs to happen is for farming to be nerfed and hardcore content to be as rewarding as farming is now for this to work imho. Of course some people will not be happy about that but well you cannot make an omelette without breaking a few eggs.

Galen Grey.4709:

A R W E N.6895:

That is true, and they should give an incentive for player to go toward the harder content.

It is not that easy. Contrary to what a lot of people believe Anet really made a game where you dont have to grind for anything. You can enjoy the whole game by just playing what content you want. You dont need ascended gear, you dont need exotic gear. Even rares are optional really. That requires a few things that are at odds with what you suggest. Mainly that content has to be doable using greens and blues which in turn means that people in ascended gear more or less have kitten statistical advantage over people who play casually and dont see Best in Slot.

That makes it essentially very problematic to do what you suggest. If they make hard content that has unique rewards then they have to make it hard for people with BiS gear which essentially becomes impossible for people who are at 1/2 stength because they dont have good gear. In turn that would mean that without BiS you’re cut out of certain rewards which in turn breaks their promise.

Likewise if they do hard content that still rewards the same stuff as everything else no one will do that hard content since it will turn out to be more profitable to do the quick easy content every time.

There is a big difference between really harder content and just some number crunching. Requiring better gear is number crunching and that is what you seem to be talking about, what basically is related to the HP / Damage and speed of the enemy (or limiting the time). And of course that’s always some part of it but next to that you can also use game-mechanics to make content harder and then it’s more then just better stats.

So they could easily make content designed for exotic and ascended gear (it’s not hard to get exotic gear) if it comes to those number crunching but is extremely challenging because of the game mechanics. I think the Queen’s Gauntlet fight is a good example of that with exception of the time-limited as that indeed makes it more of a armor thing (better armor means more damage and so a faster kill).

Ouimette.5902:

Galen Grey.4709:

A R W E N.6895:

~

~

Before you read, forgive me for the long post.

I have to agree AND disagree with you on that. While the game is set out to be a very casual game there’s always room for improvement amongst us players. Casuals and elitist likewise. There should be an incentive to go for the harder content or “un-familiar” content in the game. And here I agree with you. Gear should not be a requirement but more or less the reliability on a players movement and understandment of the mechanics that happens around him/her. It may sound way more harder than it actually is but when you think about it, the game in its current state is heavily focused on corner stacking and FGS #4(in the instanced content).

So then we have the two MEGA-bosses. Tequatl and the 3-headed wurm. Sure there’s an incentive to go for that content. But it’s all about luck pretty much where a person might be doing one of these 2 contents for first time and get a skin drop. This is something I’m personally against. But the main point of the content is not about the drop, it’s about fun. Right? But once you’ve done it 75+ times. It’s more of a habit than enjoyment to do it. I will eventually get bored of the content since the fun is slowly getting away and the lack of slow progression towards a skin replaced by a ridiculous rng is really not enough to keep a player going. Because the drop is more of a bonus while doing the enjoyable content.

So I get burned out. What do I do? I take a break of course! And this is where I’d say ArenaNet fails with a large portion of their lvl80+ content. The game fails to deliver an incentive to keep a player going. The fun doesn’t last forever. The living story is a really innovative idea though and I’m curious about how different LS season 2 will be from season 1.

But then again as I mentioned in my previous post in this thread, I will bring it up regarding what you said about profit. If I would do the harder content(if it will ever come into the game), it should only be focused on the prestige of doing it. Not financially. The game has been so heavily focused on just making gold or getting mats that pretty much everything can more or less be accessible in the game purely through purchases with gold. Even dungeon skins since you can buy tokens through dungeon selling.

Just a quick example of what I’m trying to say.

Easy dungeon reward: 1,5G, Blood dripping sword(after 300 tokens)
Medium dungeon reward: 1,5G, Blood dripping sword/w teeth(after 300 tokens)
Harder dungeon reward: 1,5G, Dragon jaw sword with dripping blood(after 300 tokens)

Take away the 300 tokens and make it rng but based on those ‘300’ tokens. So if 300 tokens means 30 runs then the rng should be so that on average you also have it around 30 runs. Sure it can then happen that you get it the first run or it might take you 60 runs but if there is enough of this sort of content in the game the luck and ill luck would level each other out. However every run will be exciting because that might be the run you get that drop. Using tokens means it yet another currency-grind just as gold is. What means it’s way more boring.

Imho the token system should have been there as a side-thing. The main drop (thing to go for) is rng but the tokens are there just to make sure that while you do it you will also for sure get something else. So I don’t dislike the token system in dungeons in GW2. It’s a good idea to have. But next to that every dungeon should also have a few unique rare (rng) drops that people really want to go for and is more interesting then the dungeon armor set / tokens.