Guild Wars 2

I feel you ARWEN. End game in GW2 is a joke compared to the plethora of activities available to you for end game in GW1. Not to mention we actually got a real tangible reward for completing each campaign story.

laokoko.7403:

Obtena.7952:

A R W E N.6895:

But its crazy how every other mmo, and even Gw1 had challenging and rewarding end game content. And yet, Gw2 fails miserably at pouring out such content.

The only thing ‘crazy’ about that is people can’t break away from rehashed routines that make that challenging and rewarding end game content of all those other MMO’s boring tired after doing it again and again. GW2 approach to end game is a breathe of fresh air.

The irony is most GW2 players are actually the one doing the same dungeon and world boss everyday over and over again.

And those people playing those “other” game probably didn’t do the same dungeon over 10 times. Thank god for 1 week cooldown.

Anyway you are playing the game wrong OP. The game is what it is. If it’s not there, it’s not there.

Time gating is cheap and should not be needed. If there is enough challenging content with all it’s own rewards (not like GW2, grind gold, grind gold or buy it with money) people will move on to the next thing after failing a few times eventually moving back there. But except for that I agree with you.

It’s funny to lately see so many complains about gold-grind and boring game-play and how rewards are mainly in the cash-shop. I have been warning Anet about this for over a years. It’s the cash-shop focus that pushes them to doing this. Back then I was one of the few saying that but now I see much more people that do see the link because the cash-shop-focus and the way game works.

ANet doesn’t have an accurate idea of how much players’ time is worth in gold.

Galen Grey.4709:

SkiTz.4590:

Nick.6972:

Rewards should scale appropriately to difficulty so people have actual incentive to get better and more skilled.
Zerg farming should never be more rewarding than FOTM 49.

Totally agree with the bold but….
Unfortunely, the philosophy for GW2 is all about the casuals….

If bigger and better rewards are gated behind actually difficult, time consuming content, majority of this games playerbase will be in outrage , ergo we will never see this type of challenging, demanding content that has unique rewards catered towards hardcore players.
If casuals can’t get a certain thing, they will cry till the worlds end until its fair for them.
You are asking for increased in difficulty =increase in rewards . This won’t happen unfortunately, as much as I would love it it. Now of course there are some casual players out there that would still love to see more challenging content that has better rewards than mindless zerg farming, but I just don’t think the majority of the playerbase will get behind this change of reward philosophy.

yes and no

I mean as long as the rewards arent unique it will not be a problem. Lets say they do hardcore dungeons that still reward the same stuff like the regular dungeons only you get x2 the tokens and x2 the gold. That would be fine. It would be a problem if hardcore dungeons dropped skins that arent available anywhere else for example.

That being said there another problem with inflation. Farming is already way too profitable and introducing content thats more profitable than that will make an already bad problem worst. So what really needs to happen is for farming to be nerfed and hardcore content to be as rewarding as farming is now for this to work imho. Of course some people will not be happy about that but well you cannot make an omelette without breaking a few eggs.

Farming or better said grinding gold rewards in random drops people do not want (so sell for gold) and gold. So the farming you talk about is grinding gold and only rewards in that way.

Challenging content should reward specific rewards for that content. (well all content should do that, not only challenging one) that is a big difference and that why the two are not in conflict with each other. Thing is you should not put in that content one by one but all at once. That’s because if there is one new type of challenging content a lot of people will start doing that so many people will get those rewards (and if they are not account-bound put them on the trading-post) once again devaluating those rewards. If there is a lot of that content all with it’s special rewards those rewards will keep there value and so doing the content will stay rewarding. (or you should make it all account-bound but then that’s the only way to get them)

Ouimette.5902:

Before you read, forgive me for the long post.

I have to agree AND disagree with you on that. While the game is set out to be a very casual game there’s always room for improvement amongst us players. Casuals and elitist likewise. There should be an incentive to go for the harder content or “un-familiar” content in the game. And here I agree with you. Gear should not be a requirement but more or less the reliability on a players movement and understandment of the mechanics that happens around him/her. It may sound way more harder than it actually is but when you think about it, the game in its current state is heavily focused on corner stacking and FGS #4(in the instanced content).

So then we have the two MEGA-bosses. Tequatl and the 3-headed wurm. Sure there’s an incentive to go for that content. But it’s all about luck pretty much where a person might be doing one of these 2 contents for first time and get a skin drop. This is something I’m personally against. But the main point of the content is not about the drop, it’s about fun. Right? But once you’ve done it 75+ times. It’s more of a habit than enjoyment to do it. I will eventually get bored of the content since the fun is slowly getting away and the lack of slow progression towards a skin replaced by a ridiculous rng is really not enough to keep a player going. Because the drop is more of a bonus while doing the enjoyable content.

So I get burned out. What do I do? I take a break of course! And this is where I’d say ArenaNet fails with a large portion of their lvl80+ content. The game fails to deliver an incentive to keep a player going. The fun doesn’t last forever. The living story is a really innovative idea though and I’m curious about how different LS season 2 will be from season 1.

But then again as I mentioned in my previous post in this thread, I will bring it up regarding what you said about profit. If I would do the harder content(if it will ever come into the game), it should only be focused on the prestige of doing it. Not financially. The game has been so heavily focused on just making gold or getting mats that pretty much everything can more or less be accessible in the game purely through purchases with gold. Even dungeon skins since you can buy tokens through dungeon selling.

Just a quick example of what I’m trying to say.

Easy dungeon reward: 1,5G, Blood dripping sword(after 300 tokens)
Medium dungeon reward: 1,5G, Blood dripping sword/w teeth(after 300 tokens)
Harder dungeon reward: 1,5G, Dragon jaw sword with dripping blood(after 300 tokens)

Nothing to forgive if anything thanks for taking the time to explain yourself!

Yes I nearly agree with everything you said.
one thing I agree with you but unfortunately I dont think it would work is how harder content should not be about gains but about prestige. In the forum it is apparent a lot of people value wealth gain above all else.

Even if we look at the LS history and how most of the supposedly zergy events where designed to fail if zerged where still zerged cause it was more profitable to do so.

I personally love your idea but I am afraid people will still disregard it because it isnt profitable enough and/or because people who cannot be as hardcore will be bared from such great looking items !

A R W E N.6895:

I Will repeat my question again. where is my high level end game rewarding content

I will add that i am not talking about wow raid like stuff (never played wow fyi, only played gw1 since its begining)

I will also add that i am not talking about a gear grind.

Just to make thing clear and to make people understand that what i am looking for is something instanced to do with other player that is harder than fractal or arah. Something that you have to practice over and over again for awesome rewards. Ever heard of DOA in gw1? (Thats where your tormented skin come from fyi)

Buy DmC or Dark Souls 2 and practice them, untill LS2 comes out in 3 weeks.
LS2 should/might bring new permanent content like dung or dung paths, new zone(s), boss(es) etc.

Devata.6589:

Farming or better said grinding gold rewards in random drops people do not want (so sell for gold) and gold. So the farming you talk about is grinding gold and only rewards in that way.

Challenging content should reward specific rewards for that content. (well all content should do that, not only challenging one) that is a big difference and that why the two are not in conflict with each other. Thing is you should not put in that content one by one but all at once. That’s because if there is one new type of challenging content a lot of people will start doing that so many people will get those rewards (and if they are not account-bound put them on the trading-post) once again devaluating those rewards. If there is a lot of that content all with it’s special rewards those rewards will keep there value and so doing the content will stay rewarding. (or you should make it all account-bound but then that’s the only way to get them)

We’ve already been through this and I still disagree. All you’re going to get is people’s reaction today when they get a green drop at the end of the day. In other games that works because you have a gear treadmill and you always get that piece of gear thats more powerful then what I have. In this game you dont have that. You could put in skins but again most people only need 8 skins per character they own and they’re going to buy them off the trading post cause its easier. You could put in minis and/or dyes but then again only a subset of the players will care and they’d probably use the trade post anyway.

What you’ll get is probably what you get right now. people will farm content for the rewards because selling it will be profitable and other people will farm content for gold to buy that same stuff.

Like I pointed out most of this is already in game. JP, champions, world bosses all have unique skins… yes drop rates are poor but thats needed to make them valueable, without the poor drop rate getting one of these unique skins will be no different then getting a green drop or perhaps a rare drop. It will make people happy the first month perhaps then it will be back to nothing good in this game ever drops.

Arena Net doesn’t want to make profitable end game content, they want everyone to be poor to sell more gems with real money.

A R W E N.6895:

Now back to the question

where is the high level rewarding end game content in Gw2

Note: Living story is not high level content

Why do you need to put in the “high level” criteria?

Any new content put since launch could have easily been level 80 content. We had Queen’s Gauntlet, Zephyr Sanctum, Teq + Wurm etc.

The whole point of dynamic scaling is so that Anet doesn’t have to put every new thing in a level 80 zone.

Those are new content, some more challenging than others. Most, not so rewarding.

It’s one thing to ask for encounters that give better rewards. But asking for “high level” content misses the whole point of GW2 scaling players down to the level range of the area.

But if you are asking for “challenging content”, then that is a different story altogether.

Galen Grey.4709:

Devata.6589:

Farming or better said grinding gold rewards in random drops people do not want (so sell for gold) and gold. So the farming you talk about is grinding gold and only rewards in that way.

Challenging content should reward specific rewards for that content. (well all content should do that, not only challenging one) that is a big difference and that why the two are not in conflict with each other. Thing is you should not put in that content one by one but all at once. That’s because if there is one new type of challenging content a lot of people will start doing that so many people will get those rewards (and if they are not account-bound put them on the trading-post) once again devaluating those rewards. If there is a lot of that content all with it’s special rewards those rewards will keep there value and so doing the content will stay rewarding. (or you should make it all account-bound but then that’s the only way to get them)

We’ve already been through this and I still disagree. All you’re going to get is people’s reaction today when they get a green drop at the end of the day. In other games that works because you have a gear treadmill and you always get that piece of gear thats more powerful then what I have. In this game you dont have that. You could put in skins but again most people only need 8 skins per character they own and they’re going to buy them off the trading post cause its easier. You could put in minis and/or dyes but then again only a subset of the players will care and they’d probably use the trade post anyway.

What you’ll get is probably what you get right now. people will farm content for the rewards because selling it will be profitable and other people will farm content for gold to buy that same stuff.

Like I pointed out most of this is already in game. JP, champions, world bosses all have unique skins… yes drop rates are poor but thats needed to make them valueable, without the poor drop rate getting one of these unique skins will be no different then getting a green drop or perhaps a rare drop. It will make people happy the first month perhaps then it will be back to nothing good in this game ever drops.

You could put in skins ~ minis and/or dyes but then again only a subset of the players will care and they’d probably use the trade post anyway.

You could indeed not do it with stats. Like you said yourself, the game is not mend to be a treadmill. But you could very well do it with the things like skins and mini’s and dyes. If it’s not account-bound then they might get it from the TP however when done right (so if most of those items are behind specific content and you do not put it in one by one because then people will all jump on that content making the TP still overflow with that item) the time to just grind the gold for the item would be (much) longer then the time do directly work for the item.

That means doing the content itself is still more rewarding.

8 skins per character does not seem to be a problem. Many people seem to replace there skins with ’ better looking’ ones. That is now how the whole cash-shop also works. It should be have content-rewarding works.

“people will farm content for the rewards because selling it will be profitable and other people will farm content for gold to buy that same stuff.” For sure but if it’s truly hard hard there is a lot of those items (all from other content) the demand will likely still be higher that the people farming that content, driving up the price meaning working directly for that item is more profitable then grinding gold. So then you have your challenging content and the reward. Next to that you can of course also make some items account-bound.

I haven’t seen any JP’s really with unique reward.. well only the pirate one that has one unique drop that is account-bound. Also haven’t seen any champions with unique drops only that a huge group of champions have specific drops but you can’t really consider that specific drops from specific content. It;s more general world drops (while not 100% general). And so far there are two world-bosses who have specific drops but because there are only two many people do that meaning there rewards are still overflowing the TP. That is why I said it’s important to do that with all the content and rewards and all at the same time. Adding it in one by one will not help then indeed the special rewards will still be easily available on the TP because so many people are doing that specific content. If it’s the case for almost all content people are all doing other content meaning the rewards will stay special.

prices on TP arent set by arenanet they’re set by players and price setting is not arbitrary. No one is going to sell copper for 10g each because they know people can get copper very easily so its priced accordingly. Just look at greens for example. If you suddenly find yourself level 50 and you realise most of your gear is still level 20ish hence you decide maybe it makes sense to upgrade my stuff temporarily. Which would be faster? go farm the stuff you need (that drops faily often) or open TP and get it done? TP will take a fraction of the time and actually be cheaper (it will cost you something like 15s to update your equipment which you can make in 4 or 5 dynamic events which you an get done in like 30min to an hour and you’ll definitely take a lot longer for 12 items to drop of the type you need with the stats you need.

people will most often take the path of least resistance and TP will always be the path of least resistance especially for items with high enough supply that people are always trying to undercut each other. There are some crafting stuff on TP that sell for less then 1/2 the price for the material cost involved.

your definition of specific is too rigid. Just cause you can go to kill this branded champion and still get the same reward if you go kill one of the other 3 branded champions doesnt make it a general world drop. Thing is if you want the crystal guardian skin you either have to go kill a branded champion or buy it off tp. You cannot go do dynamic events and have it drop for you. That makes it specific.

No actually more world bosses have unique drops not just tequalt and wurm.
The shadow behemout has the final rest staff. The claw of jormag has the Tooth of Frostfang and the shaman edge’d weapons. The great jungle worm can drop Wisteria. thats just some examples there are probably more that do.

Galen Grey.4709:

prices on TP arent set by arenanet they’re set by players and price setting is not arbitrary. No one is going to sell copper for 10g each because they know people can get copper very easily so its priced accordingly. Just look at greens for example. If you suddenly find yourself level 50 and you realise most of your gear is still level 20ish hence you decide maybe it makes sense to upgrade my stuff temporarily. Which would be faster? go farm the stuff you need (that drops faily often) or open TP and get it done? TP will take a fraction of the time and actually be cheaper (it will cost you something like 15s to update your equipment which you can make in 4 or 5 dynamic events which you an get done in like 30min to an hour and you’ll definitely take a lot longer for 12 items to drop of the type you need with the stats you need.

people will most often take the path of least resistance and TP will always be the path of least resistance especially for items with high enough supply that people are always trying to undercut each other. There are some crafting stuff on TP that sell for less then 1/2 the price for the material cost involved.

your definition of specific is too rigid. Just cause you can go to kill this branded champion and still get the same reward if you go kill one of the other 3 branded champions doesnt make it a general world drop. Thing is if you want the crystal guardian skin you either have to go kill a branded champion or buy it off tp. You cannot go do dynamic events and have it drop for you. That makes it specific.

No actually more world bosses have unique drops not just tequalt and wurm.
The shadow behemout has the final rest staff. The claw of jormag has the Tooth of Frostfang and the shaman edge’d weapons. The great jungle worm can drop Wisteria. thats just some examples there are probably more that do.

Everything I did say about the TP vs direct drops boils down to this line of you “TP will always be the path of least resistance especially for items with high enough supply”.

When you place almost all items behind specific content with it’s own rng and you have enough of content with it’s own rewards, it will mean the price will go up because the TP is not getting so many of those items as there is demand for it.

With general world drops (what we have now and also you lvl 60 gear example) or other content a lot of people all jump on to, or simply rewards nobody wants you will indeed get many items on the TP and so that will be the way of least resistance.

Also don’t forget grinding gold is NOT the preferred game-play for most people. But if it’s the path of least resistance they will indeed start doing it anyway (resulting in boredomness). Also for many items it’s the only / required ingame-way to get them because so many items are on the TP.

If it comes to gold (that GW2 forces people to grind for many items), people where doing 3 things. Grinding bosses, grinding champions and grinding dungeons because they tent to have the best general loot or gold. The specific rewards (as far as they had them) where by-products so they still overflow the TP. You want to base content mainly one a specific reward not on generally good content and you want to do that all over the place.

Devata.6589:

Everything I did say about the TP vs direct drops boils down to this line of you “TP will always be the path of least resistance especially for items with high enough supply”.

When you place almost all items behind specific content with it’s own rng and you have enough of content with it’s own rewards, it will mean the price will go up because the TP is not getting so many of those items as there is demand for it.

With general world drops (what we have now and also you lvl 60 gear example) or other content a lot of people all jump on to, or simply rewards nobody wants you will indeed get many items on the TP and so that will be the way of least resistance.

Also don’t forget grinding gold is NOT the preferred game-play for most people. But if it’s the path of least resistance they will indeed start doing it anyway (resulting in boredomness). Also for many items it’s the only / required ingame-way to get them because so many items are on the TP.

If it comes to gold (that GW2 forces people to grind for many items), people where doing 3 things. Grinding bosses, grinding champions and grinding dungeons because they tent to have the best general loot or gold. The specific rewards (as far as they had them) where by-products so they still overflow the TP. You want to base content mainly one a specific reward not on generally good content and you want to do that all over the place.

One huge problem… We already have that situation right now. Plenty of rare materials people require has a low drop rate like say lodestones. Now we all due respect you yourself argue that getting these items via drops is impossible that you have to buy them off TP. Even if we go with items that have a much lower drop rate like say precursors do you think people who need a precursor farm for it by doing the designed to drop it such as crafting and throwing stuff in the mystical forge or killing mobs ? or do they farm the gold and buy it off TP ?

The only way to have people go do the content itself is literally to force them to do the content itself. This isnt a novel concept, soul bound items where created for this very reason. If you want the best in other mmos you have to work for it and there will always be a new best you need to work for around the corner.

But probably worst then all this is for your idea to work (ie a very bad TP supply) the item drop would need to be really really really low. We’re probably talking ascended gear drop low. I am pretty sure people will never go for that. Just look at when Anet introduced ascended gear crafting. Ancient wood logs jumped in price to 9s each if not more. 9s!!!! I could farm 144+ logs in 30 mins yet people were paying 9s just to get the thing done as quickly as possible.

Farming right now is disproportionately highly rewarding so given the choice people will always choose gold as their primary means of acquisition. Taking away the choice is an option but one that has other issues.

Paddy.3985:

A R W E N.6895:

Am I in the wrong game?

If you want gear treadmills and constant raids that replace everything before it every few months. Yes, you are indeed. This game does have endgame content but it’s quite a bit different than most other MMOs. PvP and WvW are basically it. If you are a pver exclusively then there is going to be little for you to do endgame wise other than the LS every few weeks, and that takes… a day or so to finish off.

Does anyone else find it funny that these types of posters don’t see the parallels in this game and other games? Is it just me or are others out there seeing this? Like how can you miss that the very thing this game has become, is indeed a gear treadmill, with the same delay tactics like grinding, that other games have used for years? How does one not see that seriously? Like you can look at the history of this game in the patch notes and in the announcements and follow how when where it became a gear treadmill with a long grind how it’s more profitable to run dungeons (thus the dungeon focus people speak of) how this and the temporary nature of LS has made this game dungeon focused, and how really the only activities left after it’s all said and done is to just login grind out gold or achieve points or do your dailies/guild runs at interval.

Galen Grey.4709:

Devata.6589:

Everything I did say about the TP vs direct drops boils down to this line of you “TP will always be the path of least resistance especially for items with high enough supply”.

When you place almost all items behind specific content with it’s own rng and you have enough of content with it’s own rewards, it will mean the price will go up because the TP is not getting so many of those items as there is demand for it.

With general world drops (what we have now and also you lvl 60 gear example) or other content a lot of people all jump on to, or simply rewards nobody wants you will indeed get many items on the TP and so that will be the way of least resistance.

Also don’t forget grinding gold is NOT the preferred game-play for most people. But if it’s the path of least resistance they will indeed start doing it anyway (resulting in boredomness). Also for many items it’s the only / required ingame-way to get them because so many items are on the TP.

If it comes to gold (that GW2 forces people to grind for many items), people where doing 3 things. Grinding bosses, grinding champions and grinding dungeons because they tent to have the best general loot or gold. The specific rewards (as far as they had them) where by-products so they still overflow the TP. You want to base content mainly one a specific reward not on generally good content and you want to do that all over the place.

One huge problem… We already have that situation right now. Plenty of rare materials people require has a low drop rate like say lodestones. Now we all due respect you yourself argue that getting these items via drops is impossible that you have to buy them off TP. Even if we go with items that have a much lower drop rate like say precursors do you think people who need a precursor farm for it by doing the designed to drop it such as crafting and throwing stuff in the mystical forge or killing mobs ? or do they farm the gold and buy it off TP ?

The only way to have people go do the content itself is literally to force them to do the content itself. This isnt a novel concept, soul bound items where created for this very reason. If you want the best in other mmos you have to work for it and there will always be a new best you need to work for around the corner.

But probably worst then all this is for your idea to work (ie a very bad TP supply) the item drop would need to be really really really low. We’re probably talking ascended gear drop low. I am pretty sure people will never go for that. Just look at when Anet introduced ascended gear crafting. Ancient wood logs jumped in price to 9s each if not more. 9s!!!! I could farm 144+ logs in 30 mins yet people were paying 9s just to get the thing done as quickly as possible.

Farming right now is disproportionately highly rewarding so given the choice people will always choose gold as their primary means of acquisition. Taking away the choice is an option but one that has other issues.

And once again, as an advocate, you fail to point out how these things are being adjusted to keep them that high. It’s disproportionate because the very places to get things that sell well are being nerfed every chance they get. So it’s not only a system where the gem store is not just advertising it’s also a case where the items available to make a profit off the TP are becoming more scarce all the time. I don’t know about you but I didn’t buy this game or any game to turn it into a job.

Basically what it’s boiled down to is grinding out gold….

tigirius.9014:

Paddy.3985:

A R W E N.6895:

Am I in the wrong game?

If you want gear treadmills and constant raids that replace everything before it every few months. Yes, you are indeed. This game does have endgame content but it’s quite a bit different than most other MMOs. PvP and WvW are basically it. If you are a pver exclusively then there is going to be little for you to do endgame wise other than the LS every few weeks, and that takes… a day or so to finish off.

Does anyone else find it funny that these types of posters don’t see the parallels in this game and other games? Is it just me or are others out there seeing this? Like how can you miss that the very thing this game has become, is indeed a gear treadmill, with the same delay tactics like grinding, that other games have used for years? How does one not see that seriously? Like you can look at the history of this game in the patch notes and in the announcements and follow how when where it became a gear treadmill with a long grind how it’s more profitable to run dungeons (thus the dungeon focus people speak of) how this and the temporary nature of LS has made this game dungeon focused, and how really the only activities left after it’s all said and done is to just login grind out gold or achieve points or do your dailies/guild runs at interval.

I am sure its not just you but it isnt everyone either.

There are multiple ways to achieve the same goal. for example not putting in gear is one way of making sure you dont have a gear treadmill making it optional is another. (also gear treadmill doesnt mean it takes a long time to get the gear, it means getting gear is a never ending task which isnt the case in gw2.. it may take a long while to fully gear all your alts in BiS gear in Gw2 but until they put in another tier there is a definite point in time where you are done. In most other MMOs every new release will bring in a new tier so you’re never done. Thats what makes it a treadmill)

Anyhow back on subject. Some of us dont care about Ascended gear because the game allows us not to care about it. In your typical MMO if you dont pursuit BiS gear it will mean you cannot engage compettitively in PvP or even most of a big chunk of the next release’s content.

If you dont rush to acquire Ascended gear you dont have to grind at all. Stuff you need to craft or purchase ascended gear you get by playing whatever you feel like in the game. Its the push people have to get it done asap that boiled it down for them to grinding gold over and over again.

tigirius.9014:

And once again, as an advocate, you fail to point out how these things are being adjusted to keep them that high. It’s disproportionate because the very places to get things that sell well are being nerfed every chance they get. So it’s not only a system where the gem store is not just advertising it’s also a case where the items available to make a profit off the TP are becoming more scarce all the time. I don’t know about you but I didn’t buy this game or any game to turn it into a job.

Basically what it’s boiled down to is grinding out gold….

quite the opposite, its disproportionate because one group of people (farmers) play content thats more profitable then other content. Prices are relative to income. If I am a farmer and make 15g per hour buying say the dragon jade wall skin for 70g means i need to farm about 5hrs… If I a non farmer who make maybe 50s an hour want to buy the same skin I need to play for 140 hrs to be able to afford it.

The crux of the matter is that 70g isnt something set in stone, its a price people are asking and people ask that much because other people are willing to pay for it and other people are willing to pay for it because they find it reasonable price to ask. What price is reasonable however is very extremely different between a farmer and someone who doesnt farm.

How do you fix that? well by nerfing farming so farming isnt that much more expensive then doing anything else. If both groups of players did 50s an hour then that 70g will inevitably drop to something much more reasonable.

Galen Grey.4709:

Devata.6589:

Everything I did say about the TP vs direct drops boils down to this line of you “TP will always be the path of least resistance especially for items with high enough supply”.

When you place almost all items behind specific content with it’s own rng and you have enough of content with it’s own rewards, it will mean the price will go up because the TP is not getting so many of those items as there is demand for it.

With general world drops (what we have now and also you lvl 60 gear example) or other content a lot of people all jump on to, or simply rewards nobody wants you will indeed get many items on the TP and so that will be the way of least resistance.

Also don’t forget grinding gold is NOT the preferred game-play for most people. But if it’s the path of least resistance they will indeed start doing it anyway (resulting in boredomness). Also for many items it’s the only / required ingame-way to get them because so many items are on the TP.

If it comes to gold (that GW2 forces people to grind for many items), people where doing 3 things. Grinding bosses, grinding champions and grinding dungeons because they tent to have the best general loot or gold. The specific rewards (as far as they had them) where by-products so they still overflow the TP. You want to base content mainly one a specific reward not on generally good content and you want to do that all over the place.

One huge problem… We already have that situation right now. Plenty of rare materials people require has a low drop rate like say lodestones. Now we all due respect you yourself argue that getting these items via drops is impossible that you have to buy them off TP. Even if we go with items that have a much lower drop rate like say precursors do you think people who need a precursor farm for it by doing the designed to drop it such as crafting and throwing stuff in the mystical forge or killing mobs ? or do they farm the gold and buy it off TP ?

The only way to have people go do the content itself is literally to force them to do the content itself. This isnt a novel concept, soul bound items where created for this very reason. If you want the best in other mmos you have to work for it and there will always be a new best you need to work for around the corner.

But probably worst then all this is for your idea to work (ie a very bad TP supply) the item drop would need to be really really really low. We’re probably talking ascended gear drop low. I am pretty sure people will never go for that. Just look at when Anet introduced ascended gear crafting. Ancient wood logs jumped in price to 9s each if not more. 9s!!!! I could farm 144+ logs in 30 mins yet people were paying 9s just to get the thing done as quickly as possible.

Farming right now is disproportionately highly rewarding so given the choice people will always choose gold as their primary means of acquisition. Taking away the choice is an option but one that has other issues.

They grind the gold because like you say they cant really work directly for it. That’s exactly the same point I am talking about if it comes to specific items from specific content. It’s almost impossible but because of the way the game is designed you still get many of those items on the TP. (like very rare but general world drops).

“The only way to have people go do the content itself is literally to force them to do the content itself.” Or by making it a more viable option. As much as I would likt to it’s nearly impossible to farm those mats yourself like you say. And it’s impossible to get 99% of the mini’s in the game because they are in the cash-shop.

No for ‘my idea’ (it works (just fine) like that in many mmo’s so not really my idea) it should not be extremely low. Like I say it should be attainable in a decent way. The difference is that all rewards are behind specific content so people are less likely to bumb into it and even if people would farm it that would only be a part of the player-base not the majority and they would not all do the same because if they would that item would drop in price and so it would not be interesting anymore.

I don’t know about that wood but usually if you can easily enough obtain it ingame many people go for it that. Maybe the problem is that in GW2 gold is already the way for everything so even for the items where you can go for it directly people do what they got used to.

Vesuvius.9874:

What content in GW1 was “high level end game rewarding content” according to you? Do dungeons and fractals in GW2 not count as end game content?

Dungeons are Mid-game content in almost any other MMO you could name.

TheDaiBish.9735:

dragonfairy.1064:

it is found on the TP, gemstore = end game content.

Where’s the content you play on the gemstore?

you get to swipe the debit and credit card.

Lothirieth.3408:

Vesuvius.9874:

What level of Fractals are you doing? Levels 1-9 are a joke, yes. Perhaps try some of the higher levels?

The OP wants rewarding content. The highest level fractals aren’t. You make less there than you would dungeon running in the same time frame.

And to all the people bringing up progression gear grinds, where the the OP say that? The OP points out GW1 which has awesome horizontal progression and challenging, rewarding content. It can be done.

Yes, but it would be hard for the devs to do.

Galen Grey.4709:

tigirius.9014:

And once again, as an advocate, you fail to point out how these things are being adjusted to keep them that high. It’s disproportionate because the very places to get things that sell well are being nerfed every chance they get. So it’s not only a system where the gem store is not just advertising it’s also a case where the items available to make a profit off the TP are becoming more scarce all the time. I don’t know about you but I didn’t buy this game or any game to turn it into a job.

Basically what it’s boiled down to is grinding out gold….

quite the opposite, its disproportionate because one group of people (farmers) play content thats more profitable then other content. Prices are relative to income. If I am a farmer and make 15g per hour buying say the dragon jade wall skin for 70g means i need to farm about 5hrs… If I a non farmer who make maybe 50s an hour want to buy the same skin I need to play for 140 hrs to be able to afford it.

The crux of the matter is that 70g isnt something set in stone, its a price people are asking and people ask that much because other people are willing to pay for it and other people are willing to pay for it because they find it reasonable price to ask. What price is reasonable however is very extremely different between a farmer and someone who doesnt farm.

How do you fix that? well by nerfing farming so farming isnt that much more expensive then doing anything else. If both groups of players did 50s an hour then that 70g will inevitably drop to something much more reasonable.

And once again the stigma starts. Farmers are not the problem, the economic model is the problem.

Please please educate yourself a bit more before posting nonsense that’s not only been disproven time and time again by other game examples in history, but is also a form of gamer bigotry. Farmers used to be celebrated players because they provided a service that other people didn’t want to do and the market unmanipulated solved it’s own problems with undercutting. It’s happened that way for years in not just one but hundreds of games.

Nerelith.7360:

TheDaiBish.9735:

dragonfairy.1064:

it is found on the TP, gemstore = end game content.

Where’s the content you play on the gemstore?

you get to swipe the debit and credit card.

Haha, nice one!

Galen Grey.4709:

tigirius.9014:

And once again, as an advocate, you fail to point out how these things are being adjusted to keep them that high. It’s disproportionate because the very places to get things that sell well are being nerfed every chance they get. So it’s not only a system where the gem store is not just advertising it’s also a case where the items available to make a profit off the TP are becoming more scarce all the time. I don’t know about you but I didn’t buy this game or any game to turn it into a job.

Basically what it’s boiled down to is grinding out gold….

quite the opposite, its disproportionate because one group of people (farmers) play content thats more profitable then other content. Prices are relative to income. If I am a farmer and make 15g per hour buying say the dragon jade wall skin for 70g means i need to farm about 5hrs… If I a non farmer who make maybe 50s an hour want to buy the same skin I need to play for 140 hrs to be able to afford it.

The crux of the matter is that 70g isnt something set in stone, its a price people are asking and people ask that much because other people are willing to pay for it and other people are willing to pay for it because they find it reasonable price to ask. What price is reasonable however is very extremely different between a farmer and someone who doesnt farm.

How do you fix that? well by nerfing farming so farming isnt that much more expensive then doing anything else. If both groups of players did 50s an hour then that 70g will inevitably drop to something much more reasonable.

No they list those prices not because that’s what people are willing to pay, but because that’s 1 step lower than the last guy. You’re leaving out and entire demographic that would exist had they not stopped farmers from performing their function in the game that they’ve successfully performed for years without any interference from developers at all, which is the undercut.

The prices we see today are directly due to two forces, nerfs to farming thus causing many legit farmers (you know those they claimed they accept and didn’t want DR to affect) to completely leave the game, and gold that comes from the vapor system of gem store conversion.

In 9 months you cannot tell me that the prices will not be higher than they are now (at least not with any honesty) while those two forces continue to work on the economy unchecked.

Lowering the ability of certain drops artificially increases their prices because there aren’t as many available AND farmers who can’t get rewards for normal gameplay will go elsewhere lowering the number of TP posters. It’s an endless process. I watched from head start to 1 year later, the prices for items everyone needs in the store increase 400%, all due to DR, nerfs to farming, players leaving in disgust lowering number of posts to the economy.

Most people don’t like to admit it but the majority of mmo players play mmos because of the feeling of being rewarded. Where do you think “Ding” from leveling came from? It’s why end game should not be so stifled in rewards or you invariably ALWAYS lose players. Losing/unhappy players = fewer sales = fewer updates/content patches.

Haxwell.7398:

I feel you ARWEN. End game in GW2 is a joke compared to the plethora of activities available to you for end game in GW1. Not to mention we actually got a real tangible reward for completing each campaign story.

Guild wars 1 prophecies did not have more endgame that guild wars 2. Or are you comparing a game was essentially 3 games + 1 expansion with just one game? Guild wars 1 had more dungeons because each game was considered standalone and needed to have it own max level dungeon and even still then it did not have more endgame.

You might want to get off that nostalgia juice, it corrodes the brain.

silvermember.8941:

Haxwell.7398:

I feel you ARWEN. End game in GW2 is a joke compared to the plethora of activities available to you for end game in GW1. Not to mention we actually got a real tangible reward for completing each campaign story.

Guild wars 1 prophecies did not have more endgame that guild wars 2. Or are you comparing a game was essentially 3 games + 1 expansion with just one game? Guild wars 1 had more dungeons because each game was considered standalone and needed to have it own max level dungeon and even still then it did not have more endgame.

You might want to get off that nostalgia juice, it corrodes the brain.

I think he is talking about GW1 at the same moment in time as GW2 is now (almost 2 years in) or what I think would be better if you would take Guild Wars 1 prophecies and would add 1 year for every expansion (or campain). Also then we would soon get the second expansion in GW2.

silvermember.8941:

Haxwell.7398:

I feel you ARWEN. End game in GW2 is a joke compared to the plethora of activities available to you for end game in GW1. Not to mention we actually got a real tangible reward for completing each campaign story.

Guild wars 1 prophecies did not have more endgame that guild wars 2. Or are you comparing a game was essentially 3 games + 1 expansion with just one game? Guild wars 1 had more dungeons because each game was considered standalone and needed to have it own max level dungeon and even still then it did not have more endgame.

You might want to get off that nostalgia juice, it corrodes the brain.

Looks like you already had a bit to much of that juice. At least GW1 had endgame, even if it did take 3 additions +1 expansion at least GW1 had new PERMANENT retail content added and GW2 got piddling temporary content and the glorious gemstore new content. Go back to playing your wonderful stale content.

Nerelith.7360:

TheDaiBish.9735:

dragonfairy.1064:

it is found on the TP, gemstore = end game content.

Where’s the content you play on the gemstore?

you get to swipe the debit and credit card.

Well, thanks for proving my point at any rate, I guess.

Sartharina.3542:

There’s plenty of “Endgame” content:
1. Working for legendaries.
2. Making a name for yourself on your server through WvW and PvP (And now the game in general, with Megaservers)
3. Becoming a leader of PvE events or in WvW.
4. Keeping up with Living Story.
5. Making and running a guild.

This is not end game. This is just being social within the game or tedious bullcrap. PvP is completely separate from pve unless you want skins.

GW2 has almost no end game content (dungeons aren’t even worth considering to be end game).

I’d say fractals 40+ are about the only end game you have and those literally just became less tedious with the dredge fractal being made so easy you can do it with your eyes closed.

Grinding out a legendary isn’t even end game content I can do that sitting in frostgorge mindlessly killing champs all day….

More permanent content <3

Devata.6589:

They grind the gold because like you say they cant really work directly for it. That’s exactly the same point I am talking about if it comes to specific items from specific content. It’s almost impossible but because of the way the game is designed you still get many of those items on the TP. (like very rare but general world drops).

I didnt say you cant. I said its not optimal and a lot of people refuse to trade optimal with fun.

Devata.6589:

“The only way to have people go do the content itself is literally to force them to do the content itself.” Or by making it a more viable option. As much as I would likt to it’s nearly impossible to farm those mats yourself like you say. And it’s impossible to get 99% of the mini’s in the game because they are in the cash-shop.

and how would you do that? its important to keep in mind that stuff requirements in gw2 is finite. The biggest need people have in any mmo is gear. In all other MMOs that have vertical progression thats not a big deal because you keep getting new higher tier gear you need to get for your char + alts so the demand never ends. Not just that but in most of these MMOs the gear isnt even tradable you need to get it yourself. Not so in gw2. Lets take say the corrupted staff. requires 30 corrupted lodestones. they have a pretty low drop rate of about 1 per hour. They’re also trade for about 1g each. for a farmer it takes 2hrs to acquire them off TP, for a player who doesnt farm it takes 30 hrs to farm them or 60hrs to get them off TP (unless they decide to farm in order to afford them) Why such a low drop rate? because how many corrupted weapons are you going to need? maybe 3? maximum 6? (assuming 2 chars would fit the style) thats between 90hrs to 180hrs (regular play) 6 – 12hrs (farming) with regular play that gives you a goal to work towards for about 1 – 2 months if we take an average of 20 hrs a week play time. Thats 2 out of what 5 alts complete? 2 out of maybe 8 alts most people will have? now granted corrupted weapons arent the most demanding weapons to get but as it is its what maybe 2 years of play time to gear up all your alts with the stuff you like best? if we increase the drop rate so its at least as fast as farming that means you’re also lowering those 2 years worth of rewards to less then a month or well perhaps 2! would that really make for a better game in your opinion?

Devata.6589:

…snip Like I say it should be attainable in a decent way. The difference is that all rewards are behind specific content so people are less likely to bumb into it and even if people would farm it that would only be a part of the player-base not the majority and they would not all do the same because if they would that item would drop in price and so it would not be interesting anymore.

people farm gold because its faster then farming the actual thing. do you think if you hide stuff behind specific content people will not look to farm those but instead take the longer route of trying to accidentally bumb into it? I am sorry I dont see it happening.

Not just that but if you did what you suggest and say hide the corrupted staff behind I dont know, lets say the claw of jormag and it dropped on average every 1 – 2 hrs which would mean a 10-20% drop rate give or take. Every one who wanted a corrupted staff would quickly get one and then when thats done in a couple of days max they’ll either move to the next thing if there is a next thing they want or farm it for profit but since they’re getting one every 1 – 10 kills if there are 500 people doing the event thats 50 new corrupted staff each time x5 times a day thats 250 corrupted staves a day! people will start undercutting each other and in no time it will still be quicker to get it off TP then off the claw itself (no need to wait for respawn timer etc..)
It might work for the first week but then it will just stop working again with the added negativity that a medium turn goal has now become very short term.

Devata.6589:

I don’t know about that wood but usually if you can easily enough obtain it ingame many people go for it that…

Mabye but seems to me it seems more about people being unwilling to wait so they’re happy to sacrifice future time for past time if it gets them what they want quicker because thats what happened here. They invested time in the past to get gold. They have that gold so they could and did exchange it there and then for the wood they needed there and then. But they didnt realize or didnt care that the 30 mins they saved now is going to cost them 1hr (going with gold farming as it would be a lot lot lot more if we go with regular gameplay) in the future because they overpaid for the wood.

tigirius.9014:

Galen Grey.4709:

tigirius.9014:

And once again, as an advocate, you fail to point out how these things are being adjusted to keep them that high. It’s disproportionate because the very places to get things that sell well are being nerfed every chance they get. So it’s not only a system where the gem store is not just advertising it’s also a case where the items available to make a profit off the TP are becoming more scarce all the time. I don’t know about you but I didn’t buy this game or any game to turn it into a job.

Basically what it’s boiled down to is grinding out gold….

quite the opposite, its disproportionate because one group of people (farmers) play content thats more profitable then other content. Prices are relative to income. If I am a farmer and make 15g per hour buying say the dragon jade wall skin for 70g means i need to farm about 5hrs… If I a non farmer who make maybe 50s an hour want to buy the same skin I need to play for 140 hrs to be able to afford it.

The crux of the matter is that 70g isnt something set in stone, its a price people are asking and people ask that much because other people are willing to pay for it and other people are willing to pay for it because they find it reasonable price to ask. What price is reasonable however is very extremely different between a farmer and someone who doesnt farm.

How do you fix that? well by nerfing farming so farming isnt that much more expensive then doing anything else. If both groups of players did 50s an hour then that 70g will inevitably drop to something much more reasonable.

And once again the stigma starts. Farmers are not the problem, the economic model is the problem.

Please please educate yourself a bit more before posting nonsense that’s not only been disproven time and time again by other game examples in history, but is also a form of gamer bigotry. Farmers used to be celebrated players because they provided a service that other people didn’t want to do and the market unmanipulated solved it’s own problems with undercutting. It’s happened that way for years in not just one but hundreds of games.

I am not saying that farmers are the problem, I am saying the farmed content is the problem cause it is too profitable.

But you’re also grossly mistaken. if farmers were really undercutting each other that bad that they’re essentially making a service to other players who dont want to farm then how do you explain that farmers make by their own admission 15g per hour when everyone else who doesnt farm makes 50s per hour if even that? For this to work at equilibruim, never mind undercutting for now there needs to be 30 players for every farmer. Now I dont know how many farmers there are compared to farmers, what I do know is champ trains has a ton more players that you see around doing events. Orr has a ton more players then you see in mid level maps. On this forum itself if you suggest to go do content rather then grinding gold you’ll be called a white knight because surely there is no other way to get stuff except for TP.

I hardly think that 1 farmer is outnumbered 30:1 I think its probably the other way round. Not just that but a good chance that the other way round is actually even larger then 30:1 which brings us back to is farming really healthy for the economy? If farmers are did the bulk of that 15g directly (not through the player economy by selling to vendors or actually direct gold drops) then no I disagree.

Now as for the economic model being the problem, what part do you refer to exactly?

Paddy.3985:

A R W E N.6895:

Am I in the wrong game?

If you want gear treadmills and constant raids that replace everything before it every few months. Yes, you are indeed. This game does have endgame content but it’s quite a bit different than most other MMOs. PvP and WvW are basically it. If you are a pver exclusively then there is going to be little for you to do endgame wise other than the LS every few weeks, and that takes… a day or so to finish off.

Boy, have you misunderstood this game. It is, in fact, the quintessential gear treadmill and has been since 11/2012. I really don’t understand how anyone can miss this. They even gave you a clue that year by saying that vertical progression would be in the game going forward. It doesn’t get any clearer than that.

Vertical: the power level of the game goes up. Progression: it continually goes up over time. Vertical progression is exactly what defines a gear treadmill.

tigirius.9014:

No they list those prices not because that’s what people are willing to pay, but because that’s 1 step lower than the last guy. You’re leaving out and entire demographic that would exist had they not stopped farmers from performing their function in the game that they’ve successfully performed for years without any interference from developers at all, which is the undercut.

The prices we see today are directly due to two forces, nerfs to farming thus causing many legit farmers (you know those they claimed they accept and didn’t want DR to affect) to completely leave the game, and gold that comes from the vapor system of gem store conversion.

In 9 months you cannot tell me that the prices will not be higher than they are now (at least not with any honesty) while those two forces continue to work on the economy unchecked.

Lowering the ability of certain drops artificially increases their prices because there aren’t as many available AND farmers who can’t get rewards for normal gameplay will go elsewhere lowering the number of TP posters. It’s an endless process. I watched from head start to 1 year later, the prices for items everyone needs in the store increase 400%, all due to DR, nerfs to farming, players leaving in disgust lowering number of posts to the economy.

Most people don’t like to admit it but the majority of mmo players play mmos because of the feeling of being rewarded. Where do you think “Ding” from leveling came from? It’s why end game should not be so stifled in rewards or you invariably ALWAYS lose players. Losing/unhappy players = fewer sales = fewer updates/content patches.

come on you know as well as I as it is not that simple. If all farmers do is undercut each other every time they sell something everything would sell for 1c above vendor price.

Also sure there were some nerfs here and there but overall farming become more and more profitable not vice versa. Just do a google search on gold per hour in gw2 in january 2013 and you’ll see people claiming 2-4g per hour.
do it today and you’ll find guides and even youtube videos showing 15g per hour.

Sure they introduced DR but then they also added more and more ways to farm like champion bags, increase in T6 mat drops, events that favored farmers, updated loot drops in Orr etc…

people dont like to admit that reward drives a lot of players? Didnt see a single person deny that. That its not a good idea sure I argue that myself but that it isnt so not really!

There is plenty of end game content. I don’t know what you’re smoking.

After you hit 80 and got some gear these are the challenging end game things you got ahead of yah:
1. Afk auto range world bosses then come back and get your 2 greens 1 blue and omg rare.
2. Run repetitive dungeons for literally nothing.
3. Do world vs world and by that i mean every single day you run around in a circle playing ‘’whos got the most ppl wins’’
4. Stand in LA asking your self,‘’ what am i doing?’’
5. Stare at the tp for something.
6. run around maps killing things with no challenge to explore stuff you could have done at lvl 50.
7. Craft unneeded things for looks because you have nothing else to do.
8. Stand in the heart of the mists asking your self,‘’ what am i doing?’’
9. zerg down tequatl or the wurm for the 97th time.
10. Haven’t done a dungeon in an hour so that seems fresh.
11. afk some where and look for another game then not find anything because every game is doing pretty bad atm. After that tab back to gw2 and stare at the tp.
12. Do the channeling bug like infinite whirl!( this isnt in game anymore… apparently it was too game breaking and unbalanced and was fixed( that was sarcasm.. this thing was fixed before the major bugs we still have since release)
13. run around in circles thinking of something to do.
14. Make another character and lvl it to 80 for no reason at all.

See there are a lot of things to do. You just find them out within due time!

Edit: forgot to add but idk if this qualifies: Do living story stuff that you waited 2 weeks for in 10 minutes.

Galen Grey.4709:

tigirius.9014:

No they list those prices not because that’s what people are willing to pay, but because that’s 1 step lower than the last guy. You’re leaving out and entire demographic that would exist had they not stopped farmers from performing their function in the game that they’ve successfully performed for years without any interference from developers at all, which is the undercut.

The prices we see today are directly due to two forces, nerfs to farming thus causing many legit farmers (you know those they claimed they accept and didn’t want DR to affect) to completely leave the game, and gold that comes from the vapor system of gem store conversion.

In 9 months you cannot tell me that the prices will not be higher than they are now (at least not with any honesty) while those two forces continue to work on the economy unchecked.

Lowering the ability of certain drops artificially increases their prices because there aren’t as many available AND farmers who can’t get rewards for normal gameplay will go elsewhere lowering the number of TP posters. It’s an endless process. I watched from head start to 1 year later, the prices for items everyone needs in the store increase 400%, all due to DR, nerfs to farming, players leaving in disgust lowering number of posts to the economy.

Most people don’t like to admit it but the majority of mmo players play mmos because of the feeling of being rewarded. Where do you think “Ding” from leveling came from? It’s why end game should not be so stifled in rewards or you invariably ALWAYS lose players. Losing/unhappy players = fewer sales = fewer updates/content patches.

come on you know as well as I as it is not that simple. If all farmers do is undercut each other every time they sell something everything would sell for 1c above vendor price.

This is Not How supply and demand works.

Farmers will undercut each other naturally, with no incentive to do so from the developers. The price will drop, until the farmers start feeling that the prices are going Lower than they should.

When the farmers feel that undercutting takes the prices below they are willing to trade them , because they feel the price does not reward the efforts they put in to obtain the item…they stop Posting, they put the crap in the bank, because they understand the price cycle. They know prices will go back up.

Lo and behold…as the farmers stop putting their stuff on the AH at lower and Lower prices, you have demand remaining the same, and supply dwindling…. prices climb.

Then..Only when the farmers feel the prices Justify their efforts In attaining their commodities, they will again, begin to sell… More sellers…exerts pressure down, and the price again..drops.

So no, your analysis is a strawman argument. farmers DO undercut one another, but it never will drop to 1 copper above vendor… well maybe for some idiots that just want to sell the item, Not thinking they are undercutting themselves to oblivion.

I went to another game, because at least in that other game, I can pretty Much automate price watching, and Undercutting. I can also set a limit, as the price drops Lower…there is a Line I won’t cross. a Price I will not Undercut. When a competitor takes the price there, I simply leave My items at that price just above. if they expire unsold..I won’t Put them back on rhe AH til prices climb again.

By NOT Putting them On the AH, I help create scarcity.

Raine.1394:

Paddy.3985:

A R W E N.6895:

Am I in the wrong game?

If you want gear treadmills and constant raids that replace everything before it every few months. Yes, you are indeed. This game does have endgame content but it’s quite a bit different than most other MMOs. PvP and WvW are basically it. If you are a pver exclusively then there is going to be little for you to do endgame wise other than the LS every few weeks, and that takes… a day or so to finish off.

Boy, have you misunderstood this game. It is, in fact, the quintessential gear treadmill and has been since 11/2012. I really don’t understand how anyone can miss this. They even gave you a clue that year by saying that vertical progression would be in the game going forward. It doesn’t get any clearer than that.

Vertical: the power level of the game goes up. Progression: it continually goes up over time. Vertical progression is exactly what defines a gear treadmill.

This game DOES NOT have Vertical progression. You misunderstood. This game has Horizontal progression. The difference between Exotic and Ascended is miniscule and does not deter one from being competitive in WvW and one couldn’t be with vertical progression.

There is no gear treadmill in this game.

Here is a link – Econ 101: Supply and Demand – http://www.env-econ.net/supply_demand.html People need to understand this before they argue about the TP.

Nerelith.7360:

Galen Grey.4709:

tigirius.9014:

No they list those prices not because that’s what people are willing to pay, but because that’s 1 step lower than the last guy. You’re leaving out and entire demographic that would exist had they not stopped farmers from performing their function in the game that they’ve successfully performed for years without any interference from developers at all, which is the undercut.

The prices we see today are directly due to two forces, nerfs to farming thus causing many legit farmers (you know those they claimed they accept and didn’t want DR to affect) to completely leave the game, and gold that comes from the vapor system of gem store conversion.

In 9 months you cannot tell me that the prices will not be higher than they are now (at least not with any honesty) while those two forces continue to work on the economy unchecked.

Lowering the ability of certain drops artificially increases their prices because there aren’t as many available AND farmers who can’t get rewards for normal gameplay will go elsewhere lowering the number of TP posters. It’s an endless process. I watched from head start to 1 year later, the prices for items everyone needs in the store increase 400%, all due to DR, nerfs to farming, players leaving in disgust lowering number of posts to the economy.

Most people don’t like to admit it but the majority of mmo players play mmos because of the feeling of being rewarded. Where do you think “Ding” from leveling came from? It’s why end game should not be so stifled in rewards or you invariably ALWAYS lose players. Losing/unhappy players = fewer sales = fewer updates/content patches.

come on you know as well as I as it is not that simple. If all farmers do is undercut each other every time they sell something everything would sell for 1c above vendor price.

This is Not How supply and demand works.

Farmers will undercut each other naturally, with no incentive to do so from the developers. The price will drop, until the farmers start feeling that the prices are going Lower than they should.

When the farmers feel that undercutting takes the prices below they are willing to trade them , because they feel the price does not reward the efforts they put in to obtain the item…they stop Posting, they put the crap in the bank, because they understand the price cycle. They know prices will go back up.

Lo and behold…as the farmers stop putting their stuff on the AH at lower and Lower prices, you have demand remaining the same, and supply dwindling…. prices climb.

Then..Only when the farmers feel the prices Justify their efforts In attaining their commodities, they will again, begin to sell… More sellers…exerts pressure down, and the price again..drops.

So no, your analysis is a strawman argument. farmers DO undercut one another, but it never will drop to 1 copper above vendor… well maybe for some idiots that just want to sell the item, Not thinking they are undercutting themselves to oblivion.

I went to another game, because at least in that other game, I can pretty Much automate price watching, and Undercutting. I can also set a limit, as the price drops Lower…there is a Line I won’t cross. a Price I will not Undercut. When a competitor takes the price there, I simply leave My items at that price just above. if they expire unsold..I won’t Put them back on rhe AH til prices climb again.

By NOT Putting them On the AH, I help create scarcity.

are you sure mine was the strawman argument cause let me quote what I said initially: “The crux of the matter is that 70g isnt something set in stone, its a price people are asking and people ask that much because other people are willing to pay for it and other people are willing to pay for it because they find it reasonable price to ask. What price is reasonable however is very extremely different between a farmer and someone who doesnt farm.” and the reply I got for that is “No they list those prices not because that’s what people are willing to pay, but because that’s 1 step lower than the last guy.”

Sure some undercutting will happen no doubt but no farmer is going to let that undercutting go too far because they’d farm something else before it actually becomes cheaper (time wise) to gather it yourself. After all a farmers aim is to make as much money as possible not to provide a service to the community of cheap mats and items.

But thats not even my point. My point is how all this has an effect on the overall economy. If you have 1 group of people thats making 10-15g per hour and everyone else is making 50s per hour where will that cutoff line be especially when the group making 10 – 15g is most likely larger then one making 50s per hour. chances are it will be closer to the 10g line then the 50s line in my opinion.

A R W E N.6895:

So yeah, my daily thought…

Where is my high level end game rewarding content ive been waiting for so long?

Am I in the wrong game?

Other MMOs generally have a threadmill, which makes it a lot easier.
But that’s no good excuse. Currently, PvE:ers have Dungeons(inc. FotM) and the occasional Big boss event if that’s of any appeal to you. The dungeons brings with them a very narrow difficulty; You just need to learn the basics of the combat and some of the few dungeon mechanics.

Learning these, getting to 80 and acquiring full exotic is a relatively quick process.
After that you don’t have much going for you. Sure, there are quite a few skins which are a nice goal to work towards, but the main issue lies within the low quantity of content to do (The dungeon paths are all very similar in their gameplay – this ties in to difficulty) and the fact that it gets really easy really fast. Higher level fractals are not quite an exception either; There are a lot of mechanics to learn, but once you’re over that threshold, it becomes trivial – It’s not actively challenging. Nothing is.

Personally it feels like features such as these below would give the game a huge, huge push forward:

• More structured PvE content to choose from (perhaps some for 7-10 players?)
• A wider difficulty to choose from (Actively challenging and not simply remembering tactics)
• A good fix against stacking in most Dungeons
• A SECOND sPvP game mode. It’s utterly ridiculous that this is still not implemented.

Perhaps difficult achievements which requires a variety of skill to complete, which then awards skins or titles?

Anyways, there need to be a lot more legit content in both PvE and in PvP.

There’s nothing driving me to come back every day

Galen Grey.4709:

Well I would not define “One huge problem” as “it’s not optimal”. Anyway the reality is it’s not possible in any reasonable way. And a reasonable way does not mean ‘easy’ but it also doe not mean ‘not optional’ it means what I say in a reasonable way. You can’t directly work to most items in a reasonable way and many others you can’t work directly to at all. (cash-shop related items). And with directly I do not mean grinding gold to buy it.

“The biggest need people have in any mmo is gear ” It was never a big need for me and it’s not a big need in GW2. Like you say it’s something many people might want in vertical progression MMO’s but even then it’s a choice, it usually only becomes a requirement for the highest tier raids or something. What people play for in a horizontal progression game like GW2 is horizontal stuff like skins, fun items, dyes, mini’s and so on.

So to answer your question “how would I do that?” I would put those items in the game-world. I would likely also introduce traditional quests because they are good for soul-bound items and help exploring much better then the PoI and Vista’s striping of a list type of map ‘exploring’ we have now.
I would give some events special drops, I would give specific bosses such drops, a few mobs in a deserted location, a dungeon and so on. You want x? Go do content Y (or grind gold.. still an option but likely not the most viable any-more) Meaning those items become available with specific content, not by grinding gold and buying it form the cash-shop.

About your lodestones example. That is one of those items that drops in many places very randomly so it’s another example or a world drop. While there is no real good viable way to farm them (one dungeon can sort of help). Make one viable way (so increase drops for that specific way) to get them and let that be the only (or 2) way(s) so remove it as general drop (from chest and so on). Now less people run into them on accident and there is a viable way to work towards them directly. The total drop-rate will stay low (maybe even lower as now) because all the ‘random people / grinders’ don’t get them to drop any-more only if they directly start working towards that item. By doing that grinding gold stays an option but going directly for them will be an even more viable option. Do that with almost all the items (that are supposed to have some value or are mats and so on) in the game. Yes I think that is much better for the game. I talk all the time about making it possible to work directly towards an item and you act as if I just want to make it drop better so it becomes easy to get them. That’s not what I am saying. I don’t increase the total drop-rate I just move it to one place.

“people farm gold because its faster then farming the actual thing. do you think if you hide stuff behind specific content people will not look to farm those but instead take the longer route of trying to accidentally bumb into it?” No that’s the whole point, then there is a direct way to get them. That then becomes the more viable option. Now ‘bumping into an item’ is the most likely way. Meaning you can’t work towards it but because many people bumb into it it will end up on the TP and so grinding gold is the best way to get them. Grinding gold now means you increase your chance of bumping into random ‘good’ stuff you likely don’t want to sell to people who want it so you can buy the stuff they don’t want but they bumped into.

Believe it or not but that’s how it successfully works in many other mmo’s and yes also for horizontal items. It’s a proven approach. “Every one who wanted a corrupted staff would quickly get one and then when thats done in a couple of days” I never said it had to be easy like you keep suggesting. You now say “everybody who wanted it could then get it” well yes if you really want to go for it you can. That’s the same now. If you really want any of those items now you grind gold and buy it. I just change the most viable way to get items from grinding gold to doing specific content for that item. (while still leaving grinding open as a possibility) and yes then they might move on to the nest thing. (Again not saying they get it after 10 tries, that’s an assumption you made up and keep basing your comment on. I never said it had to be easy!!) and they might try to farm it and sell it but as soon as multiple people start doing that it does not become a viable option to earn gold any-more because the price would drop. So it’s not something many people will start doing if you can go directly for all those items you need / want.

“But they didn’t realize or didn’t care that the 30 mins they saved now is going to cost them ” That is then maybe a by-product of the gold-grind type of game-play Anet created.

The thing about GW2 is that the only two endgame content there is are WvW and PvP, besides all of the cosmetic stuff in PvE. That’s why I find it hard to stay logged in GW2 very long after finishing my daily. The endgame content/reward just isn’t enough. After playing GW2 for a while, I realized that there really isn’t anything amazing in this game. Everything is just “okay” or it’s “expected”. I appreciate Arenet for making things convenient, in comparison to other MMORPGs, but this game just doesn’t get exciting very much. The only exciting thing currently for me is trying out new classes but that grind to lvl 80 is no joke, especially since you’re already played the same content that got you there with your other character(s) repetitively.

Mosharn.8357:

There is plenty of end game content. I don’t know what you’re smoking.

After you hit 80 and got some gear these are the challenging end game things you got ahead of yah:
1. Afk auto range world bosses then come back and get your 2 greens 1 blue and omg rare.
2. Run repetitive dungeons for literally nothing.
3. Do world vs world and by that i mean every single day you run around in a circle playing ‘’whos got the most ppl wins’’
4. Stand in LA asking your self,‘’ what am i doing?’’
5. Stare at the tp for something.
6. run around maps killing things with no challenge to explore stuff you could have done at lvl 50.
7. Craft unneeded things for looks because you have nothing else to do.
8. Stand in the heart of the mists asking your self,‘’ what am i doing?’’
9. zerg down tequatl or the wurm for the 97th time.
10. Haven’t done a dungeon in an hour so that seems fresh.
11. afk some where and look for another game then not find anything because every game is doing pretty bad atm. After that tab back to gw2 and stare at the tp.
12. Do the channeling bug like infinite whirl!( this isnt in game anymore… apparently it was too game breaking and unbalanced and was fixed( that was sarcasm.. this thing was fixed before the major bugs we still have since release)
13. run around in circles thinking of something to do.
14. Make another character and lvl it to 80 for no reason at all.

See there are a lot of things to do. You just find them out within due time!

Edit: forgot to add but idk if this qualifies: Do living story stuff that you waited 2 weeks for in 10 minutes.

It’s scary how recognizable many of those examples are. Thing is, I still have many things I can do. I have no PS completed but that’s because I play an MMO for the MMO part, and the PS is to much SP. I haven’t maxed out any craft but that’s because crafting is all a gold-grind and it’s just boring. Anything you might want to make comes at level 400 and 500. No fun items along the way you would even want to work towards.

I don’t have all classes at lvl 80 but I don’t farm gold so playing on an alt even punishes me more with bad drops and since everything is based on gold you better don’t do that.

Doing dungeons for what multiple times? For gold? That is boring. For a cool drop I might be interested in doing it multiple times however they have no cool drops. All those items are in the cash-shop. There are no nice (little) goals to work towards or well there are but they almost all require grinding gold to buy your goal.

Devata.6589:

Mosharn.8357:

There is plenty of end game content. I don’t know what you’re smoking.

After you hit 80 and got some gear these are the challenging end game things you got ahead of yah:
1. Afk auto range world bosses then come back and get your 2 greens 1 blue and omg rare.
2. Run repetitive dungeons for literally nothing.
3. Do world vs world and by that i mean every single day you run around in a circle playing ‘’whos got the most ppl wins’’
4. Stand in LA asking your self,‘’ what am i doing?’’
5. Stare at the tp for something.
6. run around maps killing things with no challenge to explore stuff you could have done at lvl 50.
7. Craft unneeded things for looks because you have nothing else to do.
8. Stand in the heart of the mists asking your self,‘’ what am i doing?’’
9. zerg down tequatl or the wurm for the 97th time.
10. Haven’t done a dungeon in an hour so that seems fresh.
11. afk some where and look for another game then not find anything because every game is doing pretty bad atm. After that tab back to gw2 and stare at the tp.
12. Do the channeling bug like infinite whirl!( this isnt in game anymore… apparently it was too game breaking and unbalanced and was fixed( that was sarcasm.. this thing was fixed before the major bugs we still have since release)
13. run around in circles thinking of something to do.
14. Make another character and lvl it to 80 for no reason at all.

See there are a lot of things to do. You just find them out within due time!

Edit: forgot to add but idk if this qualifies: Do living story stuff that you waited 2 weeks for in 10 minutes.

It’s scary how recognizable many of those examples are. Thing is, I still have many things I can do. I have no PS completed but that’s because I play an MMO for the MMO part, and the PS is to much SP. I haven’t maxed out any craft but that’s because crafting is all a gold-grind and it’s just boring. Anything you might want to make comes at level 400 and 500. No fun items along the way you would even want to work towards.

I don’t have all classes at lvl 80 but I don’t farm gold so playing on an alt even punishes me more with bad drops and since everything is based on gold you better don’t do that.

Doing dungeons for what multiple times? For gold? That is boring. For a cool drop I might be interested in doing it multiple times however they have no cool drops. All those items are in the cash-shop. There are no nice (little) goals to work towards or well there are but they almost all require grinding gold to buy your goal.

The personal story is the story of the game for your character, so not doing it is your loss of perspective for your character. Crafting is a cheap way to get better armor and weapons for all your chars as they progress through the game. I never bought materials with gold just to get my crafting higher, I actually used the stuff I crafted with materials I harvested. Thinking it is a gold grind to buy materials is a failure to understand the game.
Play all your characters to level 80 and then master all weapon types. Use non berserker builds and learn how to survive and progress in a different way. When you go into a dungeon, kill everything and never succumb to the stack and skip mentality that is for those that seek nothing but gold to buy their stuff as soon as possible.
This is not Nintendo, where the idea is to win at all costs as soon as possible. You cannot win GW2, you can only live in the world.
If the dungeons and fractals and WVW are not enough to keep you busy, try them with 4 people, or use a non zerker build, in other words challenge yourself, Anet has given you plenty of places to do it. You have to see the forest of possibilities through the trees.

Sligh.2789:

Devata.6589:

Mosharn.8357:

There is plenty of end game content. I don’t know what you’re smoking.

After you hit 80 and got some gear these are the challenging end game things you got ahead of yah:
1. Afk auto range world bosses then come back and get your 2 greens 1 blue and omg rare.
2. Run repetitive dungeons for literally nothing.
3. Do world vs world and by that i mean every single day you run around in a circle playing ‘’whos got the most ppl wins’’
4. Stand in LA asking your self,‘’ what am i doing?’’
5. Stare at the tp for something.
6. run around maps killing things with no challenge to explore stuff you could have done at lvl 50.
7. Craft unneeded things for looks because you have nothing else to do.
8. Stand in the heart of the mists asking your self,‘’ what am i doing?’’
9. zerg down tequatl or the wurm for the 97th time.
10. Haven’t done a dungeon in an hour so that seems fresh.
11. afk some where and look for another game then not find anything because every game is doing pretty bad atm. After that tab back to gw2 and stare at the tp.
12. Do the channeling bug like infinite whirl!( this isnt in game anymore… apparently it was too game breaking and unbalanced and was fixed( that was sarcasm.. this thing was fixed before the major bugs we still have since release)
13. run around in circles thinking of something to do.
14. Make another character and lvl it to 80 for no reason at all.

See there are a lot of things to do. You just find them out within due time!

Edit: forgot to add but idk if this qualifies: Do living story stuff that you waited 2 weeks for in 10 minutes.

It’s scary how recognizable many of those examples are. Thing is, I still have many things I can do. I have no PS completed but that’s because I play an MMO for the MMO part, and the PS is to much SP. I haven’t maxed out any craft but that’s because crafting is all a gold-grind and it’s just boring. Anything you might want to make comes at level 400 and 500. No fun items along the way you would even want to work towards.

I don’t have all classes at lvl 80 but I don’t farm gold so playing on an alt even punishes me more with bad drops and since everything is based on gold you better don’t do that.

Doing dungeons for what multiple times? For gold? That is boring. For a cool drop I might be interested in doing it multiple times however they have no cool drops. All those items are in the cash-shop. There are no nice (little) goals to work towards or well there are but they almost all require grinding gold to buy your goal.

The personal story is the story of the game for your character, so not doing it is your loss of perspective for your character. Crafting is a cheap way to get better armor and weapons for all your chars as they progress through the game. I never bought materials with gold just to get my crafting higher, I actually used the stuff I crafted with materials I harvested. Thinking it is a gold grind to buy materials is a failure to understand the game.
Play all your characters to level 80 and then master all weapon types. Use non berserker builds and learn how to survive and progress in a different way. When you go into a dungeon, kill everything and never succumb to the stack and skip mentality that is for those that seek nothing but gold to buy their stuff as soon as possible.
This is not Nintendo, where the idea is to win at all costs as soon as possible. You cannot win GW2, you can only live in the world.
If the dungeons and fractals and WVW are not enough to keep you busy, try them with 4 people, or use a non zerker build, in other words challenge yourself, Anet has given you plenty of places to do it. You have to see the forest of possibilities through the trees.

That’s where you’re wrong though. People play the game for different reasons. Some play it for the ultimate goal of getting a legendary. That’s their “win” feeling. If you want a legendary and is unwilling to grind for it, good luck playing for months on end without getting bored to death before you get it. There is really no sense of “living” in GW2 because the only two things it’s built around are 1) Combat 2) Jumping Puzzles. Beyond that, there is nothing that attributes to a sense of living (Housing, Farming, Fishing, Pets, ect.).

Sligh.2789:

Devata.6589:

Mosharn.8357:

~

It’s scary how recognizable many of those examples are. Thing is, I still have many things I can do. I have no PS completed but that’s because I play an MMO for the MMO part, and the PS is to much SP. I haven’t maxed out any craft but that’s because crafting is all a gold-grind and it’s just boring. Anything you might want to make comes at level 400 and 500. No fun items along the way you would even want to work towards.

I don’t have all classes at lvl 80 but I don’t farm gold so playing on an alt even punishes me more with bad drops and since everything is based on gold you better don’t do that.

Doing dungeons for what multiple times? For gold? That is boring. For a cool drop I might be interested in doing it multiple times however they have no cool drops. All those items are in the cash-shop. There are no nice (little) goals to work towards or well there are but they almost all require grinding gold to buy your goal.

The personal story is the story of the game for your character, so not doing it is your loss of perspective for your character.

Wrong. The story of my character (my personal story) is what I do in the game, what I explore and What I achieve. Not some per-scripted single player story that has been put there by the developers.

In fact it makes the whole experience even less of your personal story and you proof it yourself by talking about “your character”. Now it becomes some other dude in stead of me.

Sligh.2789:

Crafting is a cheap way to get better armor and weapons for all your chars as they progress through the game.

I don’t really care about armor until I am level 80 and until 80 I get enough drops to keep upgrading my amor along the way. Now how you describe it it’s more like a tool. Thats fine but it’s not fun and thats what I am looking at in a game, fun. Let me craft fun items. Let me be a musician (woops they put that option in the cash-shop) or let me be a toy-maker. A nice new toy every 5 levels to work towards. Meanwhile let me hunt down recipe’s in the world or let me hunt down a special Item I need to create one of those recipe’s. Now then I have fun crafting.

Sligh.2789:

I never bought materials with gold just to get my crafting higher, I actually used the stuff I crafted with materials I harvested. Thinking it is a gold grind to buy materials is a failure to understand the game.

That is very possible to some point with crafting. But still you are leveling up just to reach lvl 400 so it’s not really like you working your way up from item to item.

Sligh.2789:

skip mentality that is for those that seek nothing but gold to buy their stuff as soon as possible.

Trust me I do not have that mentality so I never grind gold. Problem is for many items it’s the only or the only viable way to get items. What is well… boring. Also what is nice in a dungeon is trying to beat it in the best possible way. Not is the worse possible way. The problem here is that the best possible way tent to be stack and kill.\

Sligh.2789:

challenge yourself,

Problem is that GW2 punishes you for doing so. SAB was a good example BTW. The more challenging the more rewarding and it was fun content. To bat that SAB 2 make it account-bound not character bound and that the hardest mode was based mainly on trial and error (to find the route) not on skill and they then put in an infinitive coin in the cash-shop to overcome the trial and error. But except for those elements SAB was a very good example of how it could be. There where also some rewards that dropper in SAB, so you did have the excitement of getting that while also getting the tokens.

[/quote]
That’s where you’re wrong though. People play the game for different reasons. Some play it for the ultimate goal of getting a legendary. That’s their “win” feeling. If you want a legendary and is unwilling to grind for it, good luck playing for months on end without getting bored to death before you get it. There is really no sense of “living” in GW2 because the only two things it’s built around are 1) Combat 2) Jumping Puzzles. Beyond that, there is nothing that attributes to a sense of living (Housing, Farming, Fishing, Pets, ect.). [/quote]

I started gaming in the early 70’s with pencil and paper. Maybe my early experience is just manifesting itself. If a person’s reason for playing is a Legendary weapon, they have ignored the game from day one to get the big prize. They are entitled to play that way, but the game offers so much more that they are not even looking at because they are blinded by their goal.
Combat is part of the game, yes, but this is true for all of the RPG and MMO genre. I have done a few jumping puzzles, but not all, and I really do nt like them, partly due to my decreased reaction time and so-so connection and graphics card that make it even more difficult for me.
I heartily agree about the housing issue, I find it hard to defend the lack of Guild Halls for a game called Guild Wars 2.

I started the game at launch by leveling all 8 classes at the same time through the game simultaneously, crafting along the way, and doing everything it had to offer at my level, all of it. I still find places in wondering that I do not remember from my first time through. I just started doing dungeons after a short time in them as I was leveling. I have not even gone to Fractals yet. I spent about 3 weeks in WVW experimenting, but have not really gone back full bore yet.
After 2 years I still have a lot to find and learn because I did not rush through the game as a lot seem to do. I call these people completionists, they have no goal but to complete everything and then complain about having nothing to do. That attitude is a direct descendent of early computer games that was perpetuated by early RPG and MMO games. I am a casual player, 4 or more hours a day, and I still have a ton of fun. I enjoy the social aspect with the many people I have encountered. I enjoy helping new players learn the proper solutions for whatever problem they are having, that is probably the most fun I have in game.
In D&D you had to find your way, in this game the wiki finds it for you and I find that helpful and damaging at the same time. Yes, I use it, but I don’t cling to it.
I play the game, I enjoy it. I will posit my guess that those complaining about it did not take the time to really play the plethora of things to do before rushing to 80 and “end game” stuff, and now are not even willing to go back and enjoy what they missed the first time through. I took my time and I still find things I missed or glanced over.
I am not wrong for playing the game the way I have always played games. I just hope that another will gather some understanding from my perspective. If it helps them enjoy this, or any other game a little bit more, well, that is great.

Endgame content starts as soon you step into the world of the game and the Dev’s have said this many times.

https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/the-endgame-reimagined/

As players reach the max level of 80, the dynamic events become larger, the battles more spectacular, the circumstances more dire. Each of the high-level maps in the corrupted land of Orr contain battles on a grand scale against Zhaitan’s forces, an epic war with shifting fortunes and frontlines.

That first paragraph was taken from that endgame re-imagined blog yoda just linked.
Guess what. the rewards are exactly the freaking same no matter what you do. It all boils down to being rewarded with scraps and more scraps. Here take a few greens/blues with the occasional yellow or orange. Great rewarding system…../sarcasm off. There is no special loot outside of precursor and that is not even special because its 100% RNG and I could freaking get one off a deer in queensdale. the rewards are pathethically embarassing. I enjoy the gameplay even though the PvE events are bakittenhousand times, but my god the reward system is embarassingly designed and just pure laziness. Very little creativity going into rewards…. everything they continue to add in terms of rewards is GEMSTORE ITEMS thats it.

There is no special loot hunt. Just farm gold as much as you can just buy it from TP. Run your daily dungeons NOT FOR THE LOOT, but for the daily 1g. thats terrible design and its been here for 2 years now.

SkiTz.4590:

As players reach the max level of 80, the dynamic events become larger, the battles more spectacular, the circumstances more dire. Each of the high-level maps in the corrupted land of Orr contain battles on a grand scale against Zhaitan’s forces, an epic war with shifting fortunes and frontlines.

That first paragraph was taken from that endgame re-imagined blog yoda just linked.
Guess what. the rewards are exactly the freaking same no matter what you do. It all boils down to being rewarded with scraps and more scraps. Here take a few greens/blues with the occasional yellow or orange. Great rewarding system…../sarcasm off. There is no special loot outside of precursor and that is not even special because its 100% RNG and I could freaking get one off a deer in queensdale. the rewards are pathethically embarassing. I enjoy the gameplay even though the PvE events are bakittenhousand times, but my god the reward system is embarassingly designed and just pure laziness. Very little creativity going into rewards…. everything they continue to add in terms of rewards is GEMSTORE ITEMS thats it.

There is no special loot hunt. Just farm gold as much as you can just buy it from TP. Run your daily dungeons NOT FOR THE LOOT, but for the daily 1g. thats terrible design and its been here for 2 years now.

I agree that loot, in general, isn’t all that good in GW2. It’s not exciting at all. Like I mentioned, everything is sooo expected in this game. You’re going to get the same, expected amount of gold/tokens if you finish the same dungeon like usual. Rarely does that ever change. The only exciting loot out there is a precursor, in which the drop rate is near non-existent. Even the chances for an exotic to appear as a loot is pretty rare.