Guild Wars 2

Pirlipat.2479:

Orion the Cursed.1206:

http://www.ign.com/articles/2013/03/07/how-guild-wars-2-plans-to-survive

“If other games don’t have that carrot or that thing that makes players log back in it’s really dangerous for them because they can’t get that monthly fee. We don’t have that. Instead, our motivation has to be provide players with such an amazing experience in the game that they want to keep playing it.

“That’s the only motivation we’ve got.”

cough because jumping 15 times away from a mob without any need or consuming like 25 times food while your buffood is lasting for half an hour is such an incredibly amazing experience.

Really do you know ONE single person who is doing the dailies for the sake of the dailie and not for the laurel it rewards? Would anyone of you do the dailies if they rewarded nothing?

I don’t go out of my way to do the dailies or monthlies (I’ve never gotten a monthly but I probably get this one). I simply play the game and around 1/2 hour before I plan to log off for the night I check the status of the dailies, if I hadn’t gotten it yet. Usually I have 3 or 4 of the 9 completed with several other partially done. If it’s convenient I will then and only then go out of my way to knock them out to get the reward. It could be as simple as visit a Laurel merchant, I usually log off in a city so that isn’t out of my way, or craft 10 things (look, boards) and since I’m in a city anyways visiting a crafting station isn’t a big thing either.

The grindiest one for me is underwater kills. Even though I kill them rather quickly (look 10+ stacks of bleed) I normally don’t travel the world underwater.

Ascended gear should have been implemented like exotics and even Legendary from it’s inception. Throwing out a ‘bone/carrot’ here and there seems tacked-on. Those that love fractals have inventories overflowing with rings that can only be vendored for peanuts. They can’t be sold or salvaged yet a Legendary can be. Ascended can’t be crafted either like the Legendary can be. Has anyone alluded to whether they will ever introduce ascended by crafting once the armor & weapons are out?
This thread is about the daily and I digressed. The whole time gate system may fulfill Anet’s wish to keep people coming back on a daily; but it also feels artificial to me.
I can’t really put a finger on what is so disappointing about it. It’s easy enough to do, at the most it takes an hour.
Everyone wants to feel rewarded whether they have 2 days of 5hrs each or whether it’s just an hour a day. As it is the 1hr per day person will be rewarded the best from daily and DR not hitting them.
I just hope that Anet will eventually put Ascended into this game properly like exotics are now: crafted, drops, karma, tokens, TP, etc. Even if that takes a year, it would make me feel a little better about the whole thing. As it stands now I will not be making a laurel purchase until I have an idea how much the armor is going to cost and what the currency will be to purchase it. It may be yet a new currency or it could be laurels, lots of them.
On the bright side, at least we have choices.

Time gating sucks, period

retracted- no sense in getting infracted over commenting on bad logic.

Sinoran.9140:

Why do you have to gear up multiple alts in ascended? Are exotics not enough? Unless you’re running high level fractals on them all.

I have multiple 80s as well (all decked out in exotics), but when exotics get the job done (the game was designed with exotics being BiS), I don’t feel the need to get better gear when it isn’t required.

You want innovative implementation, but say ascended should be able to be crafted and sold on the TP. How is that innovative?

Current Methods of obtaining Ascended:
FotM Ring drops/pristine relics
Guild Mission rewards
Laurels
Mystic Forge.

Methods not in use:
RNG drops off Dungeon Bosses/World Bosses
Straight up buy them with gold
Crafting
Earnable through Special Achievements
Dungeon Token rewards
Dungeon Chests
JP chests
WvW Honor Badge rewards
RNG drop off of normal, vet, and champ mobs

They could add in all of these methods, but these have all been done in other MMOs, so they’re not new.

If my memory serves me correctly, A.net has said they will be adding more methods to obtain ascended gear. Perhaps you should wait for those updates.

My point still stands that Ascended is optional.

If you feel you HAVE to get ascended gear, that is your problem, not A.nets.

I want ascended gear (or BiS) on my toons because I like small group roaming in WvW and I also like variety.

When you roam with a small group of 3 – 4 people you are frequently evenly or overmatched. In this situation 5% damage increase can make the difference between victory and a wipe. I think this is true in any aspect of the game where the difference between victory and defeat is small.

Most of my friends are currently deciding between partially gearing their alts (and always being at a slight disadvantage) and completely gearing one toon and abandoning their alts.

TooBz.3065:

Sinoran.9140:

Why do you have to gear up multiple alts in ascended? Are exotics not enough? Unless you’re running high level fractals on them all.

I have multiple 80s as well (all decked out in exotics), but when exotics get the job done (the game was designed with exotics being BiS), I don’t feel the need to get better gear when it isn’t required.

You want innovative implementation, but say ascended should be able to be crafted and sold on the TP. How is that innovative?

Current Methods of obtaining Ascended:
FotM Ring drops/pristine relics
Guild Mission rewards
Laurels
Mystic Forge.

Methods not in use:
RNG drops off Dungeon Bosses/World Bosses
Straight up buy them with gold
Crafting
Earnable through Special Achievements
Dungeon Token rewards
Dungeon Chests
JP chests
WvW Honor Badge rewards
RNG drop off of normal, vet, and champ mobs

They could add in all of these methods, but these have all been done in other MMOs, so they’re not new.

If my memory serves me correctly, A.net has said they will be adding more methods to obtain ascended gear. Perhaps you should wait for those updates.

My point still stands that Ascended is optional.

If you feel you HAVE to get ascended gear, that is your problem, not A.nets.

I want ascended gear (or BiS) on my toons because I like small group roaming in WvW and I also like variety.

When you roam with a small group of 3 – 4 people you are frequently evenly or overmatched. In this situation 5% damage increase can make the difference between victory and a wipe. I think this is true in any aspect of the game where the difference between victory and defeat is small.

Most of my friends are currently deciding between partially gearing their alts (and always being at a slight disadvantage) and completely gearing one toon and abandoning their alts.

Assuming Ascended is ~8% stronger than exotics.

~272 total stat increase over full exotics with full ascended in all slots (weapon, armor, trinkets) and assuming each one is filled with a +5 stat infusion, spread over atleast 3 stats. primary stat gains a whole 90 stat points, both secondaries 61 stat points. Then +60 from having every single +5 infusion.

Less than 15 trait points worth of stats.

If you’re in partial ascended gear then the already small gap is even smaller. The enemy isn’t always decked out in ascended.

A few stat points do not decide fights in this game.

I believe they’re adding a way for WvW players to gain ascended soon.

Ascended is optional.

Sinoran.9140:

@ critickitten. Perhaps you don’t remember the “Endgame?” threads complaining “I got exotics right when i hit 80, now what?”

I remember one thread like that, yes.

How many threads have we seen about Ascended gear? Want to take wagers on which one has led to more overall complaints? I’m betting it’s no contest.

If your idea is foolproof, then it would have been already implemented or would be soon. I can’t say whether or not or why because of the vagueness of that post.

What exactly is vague about “make all Ascended gear available for the following list of currencies”?

I notice you didn’t actually offer a rebuttal to the idea, either, which sort of re-emphasizes my point: thus far, I’ve yet to see a single person who defends Ascended gear able to come up with a good solid argument against my proposal. Only their “assurances” that my idea is bad, with no actual reasoning behind it.

Friendly reminder, Ascended gear is optional.

So is Exotic, for exactly the same reasons.

critickitten.1498:

I remember one thread like that, yes.

Selective memory?
I remember 2 forum pages filled with just “no endgame” complaints, I remember all IGN review sites filled with “no endgame” comments, “no endgame” videos on youtube, Guru filled with 100-page threads begging for more progression…
It was at least one month of this mayhem before we got Ascended and everything settled after one megathread of complaints, with the rare anti-Ascended thread here and there from then on.
GW2 would be pretty much dead if they didn’t pop Ascended tier to give the majority something to do.

As much as I agree with you that stat progression is bad, the majority rules Anet’s decision not me and you.
They put Ascended after a great demand and threatening of mass quits, not because they woke up one day and Colin said “Make a tier again!”.

Sinoran.9140:

Assuming Ascended is ~8% stronger than exotics.

~272 total stat increase over full exotics with full ascended in all slots (weapon, armor, trinkets) and assuming each one is filled with a +5 stat infusion, spread over atleast 3 stats. primary stat gains a whole 90 stat points, both secondaries 61 stat points. Then +60 from having every single +5 infusion.

Less than 15 trait points worth of stats.

If you’re in partial ascended gear then the already small gap is even smaller. The enemy isn’t always decked out in ascended.

A few stat points do not decide fights in this game.

I believe they’re adding a way for WvW players to gain ascended soon.

Ascended is optional.

I’m sorry, I totally did not understand that. Can you please explain how did 272 stat points become 15? I can get 15 power from infusions alone?

Here is my reasoning

If I take a zerker warrior in exotics he has an effective power of 4162.38.
(http://gw2buildcraft.com/calculator/warrior/?8.0|1.1g.h2|0.0.0.0.0.0|1g.a7.1g.a7.1g.a7.1g.a7.1g.a7.1g.a7|1g.67.1g.67.1g.67.1g.67.1g.67.cg.67|k00.k00.0.0.u000|0.0|0.0.0.0.0|e)

If I switch him to ascended he has an effective power of 4444.24
(http://gw2buildcraft.com/calculator/warrior/?8.0|1.1g.h2|0.0.0.0.0.0|1g.a7.1g.a7.1g.a7.1g.a7.1g.a7.1g.a7|2s.0.2s.0.3s.0.2s.0.3s.0.2s.0|k00.k00.0.0.u000|0.0|0.0.0.0.0|e)

Or if you prefer power numbers. 2234 Power, 1895 precision, and 103% critical damage
becomes 2300, 1928, and 111% respectively. .

Using the formula damage = power*skill coefficient*weapon damage / armor
(assuming 1.0 skill, 1000 weapon damage, and 2600 armor in each case) (from the wiki)

The exotic warrior will do 860 points of damage per strike (base). 50.62% of the time he will crit for 2176 giving a average damage / strike of 1527

The ascended warrior will do 884 base damage. 52.19 % of the time he will crit for 2307. Giving an average damage/ strike of 1626.

So the ascended warrior will do 6.5% more damage per hit.

Red Falcon.8257:

Selective memory?
I remember 2 forum pages filled with just “no endgame” complaints, I remember all IGN review sites filled with “no endgame” comments, “no endgame” videos on youtube, Guru filled with 100-page threads begging for more progression…
It was at least one month of this mayhem before we got Ascended and everything settled after one megathread of complaints, with the rare anti-Ascended thread here and there from then on.
GW2 would be pretty much dead if they didn’t pop Ascended tier to give the majority something to do.

As much as I agree with you that stat progression is bad, the majority rules Anet’s decision not me and you.
They put Ascended after a great demand and threatening of mass quits, not because they woke up one day and Colin said “Make a tier again!”.

Okay. Then please, find them.

I don’t doubt that you’re telling the truth, as I assume you have no reason to lie about this. But I don’t recall nearly this much activity regarding endgame. Not even close. But I’ll happily withdraw my argument if indeed you can prove it true.

And if the number of complaints (by actual players, mind) were so numerous, this shouldn’t take you very long to find lots of evidence of these complaints.

A few points:

1. This has been said before, but Dailies and Monthlies are not “grinds” they are anti-grinds. You cannot grind Dailies or Monthlies — you are limited to 1 per day/moth. A hardcore player who has 2000+ hours under his belt and 3 legendaries cannot complete any more Dailies or Monthlies than a player that plays for 1 hour a day.

2. I agree that laurels being limited to Daily and Monthly rewards are a poor implementation. However, remember that ANet said Laurels are going to be rewards for completing all categories of achievements, not just dailies and monthlies. When this does get implemented, Laurels will be rewarded retroactively for completed achievement which means a lot of us will had many, many more laurels even without doing even doing one daily.
When will this actually be implemented? Who knows? But considering most people are at least 1 month away from getting their first ascended earring, they’ve got some time before it becomes a real issue.

I can’t edit my post for some reason but part 1 is broken.

critickitten.1498:

Red Falcon.8257:

Selective memory?
I remember 2 forum pages filled with just “no endgame” complaints, I remember all IGN review sites filled with “no endgame” comments, “no endgame” videos on youtube, Guru filled with 100-page threads begging for more progression…
It was at least one month of this mayhem before we got Ascended and everything settled after one megathread of complaints, with the rare anti-Ascended thread here and there from then on.
GW2 would be pretty much dead if they didn’t pop Ascended tier to give the majority something to do.

As much as I agree with you that stat progression is bad, the majority rules Anet’s decision not me and you.
They put Ascended after a great demand and threatening of mass quits, not because they woke up one day and Colin said “Make a tier again!”.

Okay. Then please, find them.

I don’t doubt that you’re telling the truth, as I assume you have no reason to lie about this. But I don’t recall nearly this much activity regarding endgame. Not even close. But I’ll happily withdraw my argument if indeed you can prove it true.

And if the number of complaints (by actual players, mind) were so numerous, this shouldn’t take you very long to find lots of evidence of these complaints.

Generally, I agree with your position, but there was a lot of QQing over the lack of an end game. Here is evidence of the complaints

a movie saying all the complaints about no end game are off base:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q38En7AEz6A
http://www.gamebreaker.tv/mmorpg/bored-at-level-80/

forums complaining about no end game
http://www.gamefaqs.com/boards/938738-guild-wars-2/63988157
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/players/End-Game-at-80/page/3#post29915
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/End-Game-1
http://www.inquisitr.com/426450/guild-wars-2-a-solid-mmo-in-search-of-an-end-game/
http://www.giantbomb.com/guild-wars-2/3030-21223/forums/i-think-im-done-with-guild-wars-2-a-month-after-re-561035/

person talking about how two months ago people were complaining about no end game
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/Endgame-Re-re-visited
merged thread about no end game
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/About-the-endgame-Merged
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/Frustrations-over-lack-of-endgame

That’s as far as I was willing to Google.

TooBz.3065:

Sinoran.9140:

Assuming Ascended is ~8% stronger than exotics.

~272 total stat increase over full exotics with full ascended in all slots (weapon, armor, trinkets) and assuming each one is filled with a +5 stat infusion, spread over atleast 3 stats. primary stat gains a whole 90 stat points, both secondaries 61 stat points. Then +60 from having every single +5 infusion.

Less than 15 trait points worth of stats.

If you’re in partial ascended gear then the already small gap is even smaller. The enemy isn’t always decked out in ascended.

A few stat points do not decide fights in this game.

I believe they’re adding a way for WvW players to gain ascended soon.

Ascended is optional.

I’m sorry, I totally did not understand that. Can you please explain how did 272 stat points become 15? I can get 15 power from infusions alone?

Here is my reasoning

If I take a zerker warrior in exotics he has an effective power of 4162.38.
(http://gw2buildcraft.com/calculator/warrior/?8.0|1.1g.h2|0.0.0.0.0.0|1g.a7.1g.a7.1g.a7.1g.a7.1g.a7.1g.a7|1g.67.1g.67.1g.67.1g.67.1g.67.cg.67|k00.k00.0.0.u000|0.0|0.0.0.0.0|e)

If I switch him to ascended he has an effective power of 4444.24
(http://gw2buildcraft.com/calculator/warrior/?8.0|1.1g.h2|0.0.0.0.0.0|1g.a7.1g.a7.1g.a7.1g.a7.1g.a7.1g.a7|2s.0.2s.0.3s.0.2s.0.3s.0.2s.0|k00.k00.0.0.u000|0.0|0.0.0.0.0|e)

Or if you prefer power numbers. 2234 Power, 1895 precision, and 103% critical damage
becomes 2300, 1928, and 111% respectively. .

Using the formula damage = power*skill coefficient*weapon damage / armor
(assuming 1.0 skill, 1000 weapon damage, and 2600 armor in each case) (from the wiki)

The exotic warrior will do 860 points of damage per strike (base). 50.62% of the time he will crit for 2176 giving a average damage / strike of 1527

The ascended warrior will do 884 base damage. 52.19 % of the time he will crit for 2307. Giving an average damage/ strike of 1626.

So the ascended warrior will do 6.5% more damage per hit.

edit: oops, my bad, didn’t account for something :P my bad

6.5% per hit is a lot… yet it’s being dismissed…

I feel as though I should qualify my statement, because it occurs to me that people are going to twist it beyond my intentions. So let’s do that now:

Red Falcon specifically states that there was lots of post-release rage about a lack of end-game. Ergo, I’m looking for evidence of actual complaints and rage in threads posted after the game’s full release. Anything prior to the game’s release doesn’t really qualify as “post-game rage”.

As for the links provided….I’ll evaluate them individually.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q38En7AEz6A

Seems to be complaining about the complainers, not about a lack of endgame….

http://www.gamebreaker.tv/mmorpg/bored-at-level-80/

This is a guy offering suggestions to people who are “running out of things to do”. Again, not actual complaining.

http://www.gamefaqs.com/boards/938738-guild-wars-2/63988157

Was written prior to the game’s release, not during the time period specified.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/players/End-Game-at-80/page/3#post29915

Not raging or complaining, and I specifically asked for that. An educated discussion about a lack of end-game isn’t the same as raging/complaining about it, as we’ve already established. Still, let’s count it. 1.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/End-Game-1

Not really rage-y either, but it’s borderline so I’ll count it. So that’s two, kind of.

http://www.inquisitr.com/426450/guild-wars-2-a-solid-mmo-in-search-of-an-end-game/

Again, not really rage. Red Falcon asserted that there was lots of rage and complaints, this doesn’t actually qualify in that regard.

http://www.giantbomb.com/guild-wars-2/3030-21223/forums/i-think-im-done-with-guild-wars-2-a-month-after-re-561035/

Fair enough, close enough to count. That’s 3 people total.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/Endgame-Re-re-visited
merged thread about no end game

Not seeing anything except the OP’s claim that there were people complaining. To which I say: yeah, there were people complaining. The question at hand is this notion that these forums were “two pages full” of complaints, with hundred-page topics among them. Which we’ve yet to locate.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/About-the-endgame-Merged

Let’s count this (although, yet again, it’s a perfectly friendly post, not at all the rage-filled rants we’ve been led to believe exist). Four.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/Frustrations-over-lack-of-endgame

Here’s a genuinely mad post, finally.

So in total, we’ve got five threads, four of which are perfectly polite.

We were led to believe, according to Red Falcon, that there were hundred-page threads full of rage and complaints, and entire pages of the main forums full of rants about it. Yet even when we count the friendly threads you provided, we’ve seen a total of five threads, only one of which actually breaks a page in length.

So where’d all these huge rants go? Again, if they exist, it shouldn’t take long to find these massive threads. I don’t doubt they exist, but until I’ve seen them presented, I’m going to remain a tad skeptical that it was nearly the sort of doomsday that Red Falcon claims it was.

And what’s been presented thus far doesn’t even remotely compare to even a portion of the Ascended complaints. shrug

I admit I’m getting burnt out on grind.

Examples:

- Unfinished dailies don’t even carry over – so it is a grind to do them when you don’t feel like.

- All the building time and influence gates on guild missions kind of suck. Have one problem with a guild event turning out alright, and it really irks a ton of people with the costs, organization, and effort involved.

- WvW progression is coming and of course you know that’s going to be about time put in.

- Fractals and dungeons are based on grinding them repeatedly.

I like ANet a lot but I do feel their focus right now means we’re not getting content that’s as based on fun as it is on carrot on a stick.

Ok. I didn’t know we we’re playing that game. Sorry, I don’t play that game.

I have provided sufficient evidence that there was a fair amount of complaining, although a lot of my evidence was indirect. I find it insulting that you dismiss it so easily.

Let’s play a different game. I agree with Red Falcon, there was a lot of “no end game” complaining. So that’s two votes to one. Majority rules.

The funny thing is, if we could keep on topic, we all of us have similar feelings about ascended gear being not good.

TooBz.3065:

Ok. I didn’t know we we’re playing that game. Sorry, I don’t play that game.

I have provided sufficient evidence that there was a fair amount of complaining, although a lot of my evidence was indirect. I find it insulting that you dismiss it so easily.

Let’s play a different game. I agree with Red Falcon, there was a lot of “no end game” complaining. So that’s two votes to one. Majority rules.

Who says we’re playing games?

I dismissed your “evidence” because a lot of it isn’t what Red Falcon said. He expressly mentions pages of forum threads raging, and hundred-page threads.

None of which you presented.

I fully acknowledged that you found five threads of “complaints”, but only one of them was even remotely rude about it. Compare that to any of the Ascended threads and you’ll see a clear difference in attitude.

I’m sorry you feel insulted, but I’m not looking for any old thread that happens to mention endgame. I’m looking for actual evidence that there was this huge amount of rage and bile, like Red Falcon claims was there. If I see it, fine. But nothing you showed me suggests that it was there. You’ve only shown a couple of people who were a bit annoyed….hardly anything resembling the reaction to Ascended.

Jrunyon.3012:

They have already said they are going to be adding new ways to obtain them.

How about you just be patient, and maybe even realize that ascended stuff isn’t the end game, its an optional path to take in gearing up your character.

We all know they “are coming”, but this new way of obtaining them just might appear in 6 months, a year, or two? The point is that from 300 people who played with me on release, were even in love with the game, just quit because the content after 80 is just ridiculous.
If we actually wanted to jump on a gear treadmill and take weeks to get something, we would just play other games that do it 100 times better than gw2. Which is what majority of people did.

Granted, there is no sub and we can come back whenever we want, but without people who you actually enjoy playing with, there is no point in playing at all. Not to mention that chances of “recruiting” and trying to get your friends to buy the game, are very slim for most people. Heck i can’t even convince one of my best friends to re-download the game.

Also most experienced gamers know that endgame is where the real action is at. “Whole game is end game” could be said for every game out there and telling someone you want to recruit that “endgame doesn’t exist in gw2” or “whole game is endgame” doesn’t sound very appealing to them.

So…. they want to be spoonfed everything straight away? Which MMO does that exactly and how’s it working out for them because I can’t imagine the answer would be well.

I sold my friends on it by showing them some vids of wvw and that was enough, they are still enjoying it.

Goatjugsoup.8637:

So…. they want to be spoonfed everything straight away? Which MMO does that exactly and how’s it working out for them because I can’t imagine the answer would be well.

Did you read this thread at all before you posted?

I’m genuinely curious if people are even doing that now, because I don’t recall seeing anyone suggest or even imply that they wanted to be “spoonfed” content.

This sort of attitude is immature and doesn’t contribute to a good dialogue. Please try to read a thread before commenting on it.

I’m not about to read 6 pages of replies so I can make a comment to the first post, TC is complaining that certain loot has a predefined time it will take to earn as being the issue as if a) there is no other loot worth getting that could be gotten in other ways and b) there is any significant competitive advantage to be gained by doing so.

If you don’t like doing dailies (personally I enjoy them) then don’t do them, there is other loot to go for

@ Revolution. That’s actually fairly clever of you. You claim the developers said something they never did. At best, you misinterpreted what they actually said. At worst, and most probably, you’re just trolling.

Either way, you’re challenged to provide proof. And your response is to drop an hour and fifty minutes worth of video in hopes that we’ll waste our time combing through them looking for something that doesn’t even exist. No. That’s not proof. If the proof is in any of those videos (it’s not), then it’s up to you to tell us when. So as of now, I’m still waiting for you to provide proof.

Sorry if this has already been mentioned, but I feel that some folk, like the OP and his/her friends put too much emphasis on the endgame. Sure, endgame is important in any game but to put all of a game’s worth on that is a little short-sighted. Now, I’m not a GW2 fanboi (even if I absolutely adored the first game) but there is so much to do and explore before the endgame and this is what you should tell others instead of bashing the game because of how long it takes to attain stuff at the end, most of which isn’t even required to play 95% of the game’s content. Even for dungeons all you need is exotics at best, which aren’t too hard to get, and the ascended stuff is just for those who don’t mind having a little boost to their strenght to make certain areas of the game a little smoother.

darkace.8925:

@ Revolution. That’s actually fairly clever of you. You claim the developers said something they never did. At best, you misinterpreted what they actually said. At worst, and most probably, you’re just trolling.

Either way, you’re challenged to provide proof. And your response is to drop an hour and fifty minutes worth of video in hopes that we’ll waste our time combing through them looking for something that doesn’t even exist. No. That’s not proof. If the proof is in any of those videos (it’s not), then it’s up to you to tell us when. So as of now, I’m still waiting for you to provide proof.

Are you actually complaining about the fact that he misinterpreted

“We don’t want you to grind, grinding is not fun”

as

“We don’t want you to grind, We’re going to make grinding not fun, but still include methods that take ridiculous amounts of repetition”

Cos, whilst you can claim he was naive and believed in the developer, I don’t honestly think that’s a reason to consider him a bad person or anything…lol

Developer releases video trailer that “inadvertently” misleads a lot of players, most leave shortly thereafter and those that choose to remain to state their case and issues are attacked by the remaining members who use the term “self entitlement” to slur…

No one is claiming that they “must have the gear or they’ll quit omgzorz”, they’re claiming that it takes too long and is BORING in every way to get the gear… the process is not enjoyable… and not bothering with said gear is getting them to the point where they feel that the already lacking gameplay isn’t sustaining them when they stop and look at the alternatives to keep them busy, if the game didn’t lack in other areas then gear wouldn’t be that much of an issue and if this game was mostly about skins and aesthetics and not stats as they seemed to agree with in all their comments while in beta, then this wouldn’t be an issue.

here’s the simplest point, there was, and still remains no reason why ascended needed the extra stats. none. nada, zilch, zip, zero.

Stop immediately thinking, this guy is just another (cringes at the stupidy of this spammed term) “self entitled” who can’t just enjoy the game for what it is, merely because he has a differing opinion to you, if any changes to the game are brought about by his issues how do they detract from your gameplay?

And that’s what it boils down to, why are people arguing about this? someone claims that daily quests for laurels are a shoddy way of obtaining gear and take too long, why is it so important to you that it stays the same? what possible negative impact does it have on your gameplay? why even post about it, especially with the zeal you’ve shown, which is enough to get snarky and into mini flame wars… what have you got to gain from it? what do you lose by conceding that maybe his issue has weight?

If and it’s a big if you somehow had your gameplay diminished by something being made easy, for example LFR gear diminished normal tier raiding in WoW to the point of “why bother” then yes, that’s fine, but these are daily friggin quests… jesus… I’d have no issue with them changing because they don’t affect me negatively in any way… seems dodgy to me…

OP nailed it. Anet has a lot of work to do and it’s simply below standards that after 6 months of release several game-breaking problems remain. It has been unacceptable behaviour of a game company towards a community that includes great supporters of their old game, namely GW1.

OP is making a poor assumption that Ascended gear is “end gear/content”. Truth is Exotic gear is end gear. Anything else beyond that is purely OPTIONAL. So in reality the time to acquire end gear (Exotics) is extremely short. You can craft it or purchases it via gold or karma. Even Laurels will get you Exotics. Time it takes is trivial because it’s all up to how invested a player is.

Craywulf.5793:

OP is making a poor assumption that Ascended gear is “end gear/content”. Truth is Exotic gear is end gear. Anything else beyond that is purely OPTIONAL. So in reality the time to acquire end gear (Exotics) is extremely short. You can craft it or purchases it via gold or karma. Even Laurels will get you Exotics. Time it takes is trivial because it’s all up to how invested a player is.

It is not optional if ascended gear will grant a player over 5% of stats advantage over his merely-exotic-geared fellows.

Revolution.6301:

Jrunyon.3012:

They have already said they are going to be adding new ways to obtain them.

How about you just be patient, and maybe even realize that ascended stuff isn’t the end game, its an optional path to take in gearing up your character.

Stop it with this argument!

Getting stats isn’t opotional skins are!

This is illogical, unvalid and unsound.

@op

You’ve actually made a post that is calm, clear and focused.
I agree with you 100% and yes this is what my problem is too. You can’t call Gw2 an improvment over the original Guild Wars why? Since it breaks so many things Guild Wars did right. Such as: Gear grind, skins, cosmemtics in general, challenging content.

^This in my opinion, this game went backwards from their great original, some didn’t like the original well they had others to play, but A lot loved the original game and now we have this “optional” version of treadmill grind or move on, great options..

Ascended should have been implemented into the game the same way as the rest the hardcore minority had other games they could have played hardcore..

Everyone’s claim to fame is its not optional, wait until how optional it is when they start adding the rest of it in, see how you fair in dungeons and more importantly WvW against full Ascended players, people conveniently forget anet said this is just the start, and we are getting a level cap increase… not optional indeed..

Dante.1508:

Revolution.6301:

Jrunyon.3012:

They have already said they are going to be adding new ways to obtain them.

How about you just be patient, and maybe even realize that ascended stuff isn’t the end game, its an optional path to take in gearing up your character.

Stop it with this argument!

Getting stats isn’t opotional skins are!

This is illogical, unvalid and unsound.

@op

You’ve actually made a post that is calm, clear and focused.
I agree with you 100% and yes this is what my problem is too. You can’t call Gw2 an improvment over the original Guild Wars why? Since it breaks so many things Guild Wars did right. Such as: Gear grind, skins, cosmemtics in general, challenging content.

^This in my opinion, this game went backwards from their great original, some didn’t like the original well they had others to play, but A lot loved the original game and now we have this “optional” version of treadmill grind or move on, great options..

Ascended should have been implemented into the game the same way as the rest the hardcore minority had other games they could have played hardcore..

Don’t blame the changes on the “hardcore” players, they wanted a challenge (a SKILL challenge) that didn’t involve cheese mechanics, no one was asking for the treadmill of time gated daily’s… that would have been moronic.

Okay, I’ll go ahead and say it.

I like the time sinks and dailies! I would prefer it you don’t change things I like to do just because you don’t want to do them.

Katai.6240:

Okay, I’ll go ahead and say it.

I like the time sinks and dailies! I would prefer it you don’t change things I like to do just because you don’t want to do them.

Hypocrite much?

So everyone should be forced to do what you like because you don’t want them to change it for those that don’t like it? Perfect logic there….

SpyderArachnid.5619:

Katai.6240:

Okay, I’ll go ahead and say it.

I like the time sinks and dailies! I would prefer it you don’t change things I like to do just because you don’t want to do them.

Hypocrite much?

So everyone should be forced to do what you like because you don’t want them to change it for those that don’t like it? Perfect logic there….

Key-word being compromise

This system doesn’t feel like a compromise, and Katai didn’t actually give any coherent reasons why they like the current system, invalid feedback until they do as it might just be trolling.

All equipment with max stats should be available through ALL forms of gameplay. Karma, dungeons, crafting, WvW, and even dailies. Never should one method of gameplay be excluded. How can anyone argue against this?

It’s bad enough they want to add ascended gear, but they are doing it in the worst way possible. I’d give up my ascended gear (soon to be 3 back pieces, 2 amulets, 20 or so rings) if they would remove it from the game entirely. Adding AR to exotic gear would have been perfect.

Exotic jewelry available through only crafting and karma should also be fixed.

Here’s what it comes down to: I like having something to do.

Dailies give me something to do in small pockets of time. Unlike some people, I don’t have hour blocks of free time to do dungeons or fractals. You can’t do stuff like that in 10 to 15 minute chunks. Dailies? I can do them, and have been doing them since the game launched. Buffed daily rewards? Awesome. No one complained about dailies until they got better rewards.

When I can do Dungeons, or Fractals, or WvW, I do them. But that’s not the bulk of my gameplay. A big chunk of it is going through the personal story lines on each of my characters, and completing the daily before the day ends. Basically it comes down to 1) Play storyline chapter or do some Events for a few minutes 2) Stop to take care of chores, catch up on work, or make some social obligation 3) Come back and play for a few minutes before the next thing on my list.

I’m already at a disadvantage because I can’t dedicate 16 hours a day to playing. When the game launched, people already had level 80 gear and hundreds of gold while I was level 20. I couldn’t even take advantage of the silly precursor drop rates back then because I simply wasn’t high enough level.

I continue to be at a disadvantage because I can only run fractals maybe once a week. People have been using it for weeks to gain silly amounts of gold, as well as filling up their banks with ascended rings that they don’t actually want. Now I can actually access some of that gear, and now someone like me who plays everyday can actually keep up with someone who plays every hour.

Katai.6240:

Here’s what it comes down to: I like having something to do.

Dailies give me something to do in small pockets of time. Unlike some people, I don’t have hour blocks of free time to do dungeons or fractals. You can’t do stuff like that in 10 to 15 minute chunks. Dailies? I can do them, and have been doing them since the game launched. Buffed daily rewards? Awesome. No one complained about dailies until they got better rewards.

When I can do Dungeons, or Fractals, or WvW, I do them. But that’s not the bulk of my gameplay. A big chunk of it is going through the personal story lines on each of my characters, and completing the daily before the day ends. Basically it comes down to 1) Play storyline chapter or do some Events for a few minutes 2) Stop to take care of chores, catch up on work, or make some social obligation 3) Come back and play for a few minutes before the next thing on my list.

I’m already at a disadvantage because I can’t dedicate 16 hours a day to playing. When the game launched, people already had level 80 gear and hundreds of gold while I was level 20. I couldn’t even take advantage of the silly precursor drop rates back then because I simply wasn’t high enough level.

I continue to be at a disadvantage because I can only run fractals maybe once a week. People have been using it for weeks to gain silly amounts of gold, as well as filling up their banks with ascended rings that they don’t actually want. Now I can actually access some of that gear, and now someone like me who plays everyday can actually keep up with someone who plays every hour.

Those are all totally valid points, and thank you for actually bringing them up, but there has to be better solutions to all of those problems than daily quest gating rubbish… I do however fully understand your frustrations and concerns and in some ways share them, I just wish players would stop with the friggin hyperbolic slurring of other players, so at least some decent discussion can be made and would hope that in future you actually give this kind of detailed opinion and feedback, instead of just stating “I like it! don’t change it!” which doesn’t really give much justification at all does it?

Revolution.6301:

I found a neat video that is the core reason many of us are annoyed.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=davb_vgQ0BQ
You know why advertise the game that way? Was it just to get to buy a game that simply is not that video?

Personally I’m annoyed that developers have ignored this question, why the change? This is not fair nor is the product we bought. In many ways this is false advertising.

For example: Villages remember you. Oh so they do? When? Where? How do I know they’ve ‘remembered’ me? They don’t talk, they don’t even say Hi. I feel like a stranger walking to one that I’ve ‘saved’ countless times.

I’ve kept hearing about this video and how this shows how the devs have betrayed us. I see no such thing. As for your example, about remembering, I believe that’s in reference to the heart givers whose remember you’ve helped them (thus finishing the heart) and turning into a karma vendor/merchant (I know you, here’s some stuff I’m now willing to sell you).

They defined grind in reference to other MMOs as … “and the rest of the game is this boring grind to get to the fun stuff” (starts around the 1:25 mark). Since there is many ways to earn XP in this game and no fixed quest chain, it’s entirely up to you to pick what’s fun for you as a way to level up. You like quest chains, we got quest chains, look for hearts. You like crafting, hey you can earn XP crafting. You like exploring every nook and cranny in the zone, look XP for exploring, opening up new areas, traveling to POI and Vistas (and unlocking Asura gates to speed traveling back there again). You like a team challenge, tada, Dungeons with multiple paths. Like to help others, XP for rezzing fallen players and NPCs and no penalty to others if you join in on their battle.

Somehow players have gotten it into their heads that one line in that video refers to more than simple gameplay.

Behellagh.1468:

They defined grind in reference to other MMOs as … “and the rest of the game is this boring grind to get to the fun stuff” (starts around the 1:25 mark).

He knows; I’ve told him as much in previous posts. I fully believe he’s intentionally misrepresenting what the developers said for the sake of fostering argument.

Since there is many ways to earn XP in this game and no fixed quest chain, it’s entirely up to you to pick what’s fun for you as a way to level up.

Not to mention the instant upscale to level 80 when joining PvP or WvW.

The major majority thinks the dailies are fine. Why do you ppl think we need a million posts and a thousand pages trying to convince….someone….that you are right because you feel this way. No one else does. We all get our dailies done in one half, to a whole hour. Without swaying from our daily routine.

You got that right? Daily routine…get our dailies done with few minor exceptions.

I can only guess…that you all think it’s fun to debate. While the rest of us just play and get our dailies/monthlies done without effort.

Gestankfaust.4216:

The major majority thinks the dailies are fine.

Prove it.

Geikamir.6329:

Gestankfaust.4216:

The major majority thinks the dailies are fine.

Prove it.

There are under 20 of you kittening about it. The rest are playing fine. Nuff said

Gestankfaust.4216:

The major majority thinks the dailies are fine. Why do you ppl think we need a million posts and a thousand pages trying to convince….someone….that you are right because you feel this way. No one else does. We all get our dailies done in one half, to a whole hour. Without swaying from our daily routine.

You got that right? Daily routine…get our dailies done with few minor exceptions.

I can only guess…that you all think it’s fun to debate. While the rest of us just play and get our dailies/monthlies done without effort.

Ah so you are the new spokesman for the remaining player base. Gotcha.

If we can get back to the dailies for a second, though…
I’d be perfectly fine with them adding all the original daily requirements back into the list, supplemented with some new options every day. Old dailies used to feel like less of a ‘chore’ to do.

Either way, it doesn’t bother me in the least, whatever they do. If I’m almost at the end of my play session for the day I have a look at what is needed for completing the daily. If it’s something like a JP or salvaging or gathering I’ll do it. If not then I just log off. I refuse to be gated into specific activities. It’ll take me longer to get that gold boost amulet, or pet, or tonic (for example) but whatever.

SadieDeAtreia.8912:

Gestankfaust.4216:

The major majority thinks the dailies are fine. Why do you ppl think we need a million posts and a thousand pages trying to convince….someone….that you are right because you feel this way. No one else does. We all get our dailies done in one half, to a whole hour. Without swaying from our daily routine.

You got that right? Daily routine…get our dailies done with few minor exceptions.

I can only guess…that you all think it’s fun to debate. While the rest of us just play and get our dailies/monthlies done without effort.

Ah so you are the new spokesman for the remaining player base. Gotcha.

If we can get back to the dailies for a second, though…
I’d be perfectly fine with them adding all the original daily requirements back into the list, supplemented with some new options every day. Old dailies used to feel like less of a ‘chore’ to do.

Either way, it doesn’t bother me in the least, whatever they do. If I’m almost at the end of my play session for the day I have a look at what is needed for completing the daily. If it’s something like a JP or salvaging or gathering I’ll do it. If not then I just log off. I refuse to be gated into specific activities. It’ll take me longer to get that gold boost amulet, or pet, or tonic (for example) but whatever.

lol…yeah. I’m the new spokesman for the "I never knew it was hard or I was “gated” (whatever the hell that means) community. We do have thousands in our community though. We are at peace with dailies and don’t feel we are entitled to do anything but play the kitten game placed before you.

I have never…EVER…been “gated” (seriously…a new word created for this kind of thing? We don’t have enough kitten words associated with MMOs?) into doing anything I don’t normally do in game.

The thread is about the current implementation of Daily Achievements and the fact that they are a Time Gate.

It’s not about whether ascended gear should be in the game or if ascended gear matters.

This thread is not about what you think of a person that disagrees with you.

Most of the posts in this thread were already addressed and answered on the first page that many did not understand or bother to read.

Dailies are not difficult and they do not take a long time to complete. No one is asking for handouts or gear for doing nothing.

The objection to the current implementation of dailies is that they are a time gate and that many people who bought the game believed they would not be required to log in every day to achieve their goals. If your goal is to get the best gear and be competitive, you should be able to work towards this and overcome difficult encounters to achieve this end rather than having to log on every single day and collect an unnecessary additionally added currency to obtain gear that you want.

Other MMO’s have used this manipulative tactic to keep their paying customers chasing a carrot. ArenaNet clearly stated that they did not want to be like these MMO’s. They also clearly stated that they made mistakes since launch when they changed things and began to pursue a different direction than they had been trumpeting since before launch.

I honestly believe that it is their intention to change the current way gear is obtained in this game. What we have now is merely a time gate to delay everyone(and all of their alts) from gaining certain types of gear quickly. I believe they will eventually change the current implementation of dailies and I believe that has been their plan before they announced them.

please return to the topic of this thread or make a new thread to discuss how you don’t like what another person has said.

The current implementation of dailies are a time gate.

Well dailies at the very least give us somthing to do. I mean its not much heck its really little. But I’d be even more annoyed without them.

We need a proper endgame. Fotm is not endgame in a way since not everyone has the time to do it.

Revolution.6301:

We need a proper endgame. Fotm is not endgame in a way since not everyone has the time to do it.

Well, then, why don’t you tell us what you consider engame? What exactly is it you, who has explicitly stated you believe BiS gear should be readily and cheaply accessible by all, are looking for after reaching the level cap?

Nurse.1085:

It use to be really easy to sell Guild Wars 2 to my friends but …it’s so difficult now.

Everything sounds amazing, but when they start asking about “end gear/content” and I have to explain them it takes a minimum of 12 weeks for 2 accessories, a dedicated 20+ days of dailies and 1 monthly completion for a necklace and 20+ dailies from Fractals (unless you’re lucky with RNG) for 2 rings.

They look at me like “Are you serious?” – It’s a complete turn off and I can’t even defend you, Anet.

The most powerful/credible advertisement is word of mouth. Consider what kind of “words” are coming from our mouths recently.

What I’m saying is, please reconsider how your “gear treadmill” is earned. We understand “exotic’s were too easy to get” but please, this is not the right direction. If Ascended will be apart of Guild Wars 2 forever, add more fun ways to earn them that doesn’t involve a Daily. Maybe that means actually adding challenging content.

TLDR ; Dailies/Weeklies are not a quality way to earn end game gear and it’s NOT quality content. If someone asked me what Guild Wars 2 end game was, I’d tell them Dailies (Dragons, Fractals, Dungeons, Daily daily, Monthly, Guild Missions, etc).

Please go back to the drawing board, Anet.
I love your game but I’m concerned with the direction you’re taking.

The OP is not against “any and all dailys”, it is hoping that the current implementation of dailies will be reconsidered as it presents an unnecessary time gate.

Mahaedros.7085:

The OP is not against “any and all dailys”, it is hoping that the current implementation of dailies will be reconsidered as it presents an unnecessary time gate.

He didn’t say “unnecessary”, just poor quality. The problem is the people who joined in to whine about “dailies = grinding” and ascended.

Orion the Cursed.1206:

Mahaedros.7085:

The OP is not against “any and all dailys”, it is hoping that the current implementation of dailies will be reconsidered as it presents an unnecessary time gate.

The problem is the people who joined in to whine about “dailies = grinding” and ascended.

With respect, that problem only exists on these forums.

The problem is not the people posting here… the post is addressing the problem that the current implementation of dailies presents… poor quality or whatever. I believe that the there could be something easily implemented which would be much better.