Tequatl Feedback [Merged]
I think the problem now is people did not get the new trait system. And they are still probably didn’t know about the lost of stats from the traits. Also, they are probably using the wrong armor/weapon stats for their build.
complete waste of time now. it’s stupid what they did to this fight.
I have done teq every day for nine months and in that time seen maybe 3 or 4 fails. Yesterday I seen 3 fails in one day. Teq was part of my daily world boss run as it was for lots of players,now its not.if its not fixed they just lost a regular gem store customer and can stick there expansion were the sun don’t shine
Apparently it doesn’t shine up Teq the Sunless @** xD
I’ve always been on a low pop server every time so since then I’ve never bothered due to guaranteed failure. The reward isn’t worth it.
badum tsh…
My most recent Teq fight, people were griefing and leaving I’m assuming because the losses were affecting their egos.
Tequatl IS POSSIBLE to kill still.
-Seth
SS taken about 10 mins ago. Was 1min 30s left. Did it with pugs
good job everyone who’s been there!
People are still running their soldiers gear. Equip your zerker set or your condi equivalent. This fight just became a DPS race again.
IMO the fight is designed wrong.
Having a timer for a failure state will only attract more Glass Cannon builds, especially if the timer is barely enough.
He is 100% doable. I’ve just finished it with like 1:30 left on a timer with PUG group and theres what I think
-changes are good, it needs some work from us but…
-after opening chests You realise it was a waste of time for 1g and a spoon…
Did him, failed, had fun anyway. Will try again, I like challenges.
People will get the hang of it soon enough, the mechanics didn’t change, we just have to pay more attention to them and boost the damage output/fine tune the rotations.
- The more asinine the post or thread, the more I am amused.
IMO the fight is designed wrong.
Having a timer for a failure state will only attract more Glass Cannon builds, especially if the timer is barely enough.
The enrage timer was never a problem before.It’s not problem now.Having it is not an issue and will not be.
I agree with Kite.2510@
People should bring more Zerker/Condition oriented gear/builds.The boss is critable now so bring more dps.Having Soldier stats is worthless.
Tequatl IS POSSIBLE to kill still.
-SethSS taken about 10 mins ago. Was 1min 30s left. Did it with pugs
good job everyone who’s been there!
Nobody says its impossible. The question is whether its worth the effort and if the changes really are “more fun” or just a scam to give some wannabe pros the idea of a challenge, even though no mechanics are changed and more pug maps will simply fail cause of missing amount of viable people.
If you are all fine doing twice the work for the same small amount of loot – go ahead!
IMO the fight is designed wrong.
Having a timer for a failure state will only attract more Glass Cannon builds, especially if the timer is barely enough.
This really. And if they are worried about spawn timers/resetting it, they should just make it reset when the turrets and mega are destroyed.
However I think with the megaservers they backed themselves into a corner when it comes to timers. If servers were still separate they could just have a rolling timer, spawns every 4 hours after each kill, check with NPCs on how long it will be till they rebuild/teq respawns.
While I still don’t think there is anything wrong with the fight as is, however I do go back on what I said about loot, it should be boosted.
Beat teq last night. Don’t know why people r complaining.
Wait ? … Didnt you guys spammed or well floated the forum full of QQ about too much dps ? and now you say that idea is bad ? Question ? Where is your dps ?I mean just saying ,if i read all those old post about ppls ,who QQ about too much dps,then i think , if they increase just the health by 200 % and allow to crit.it still should be able to smell.So in this case .it means those ppls , who know how to play their classes was like oh well let’s try and did a good job and it was too much dps for you.
I mean come on .So many ppls says increase the health from the worldbosses.Buff them !There they go and now you see the result.Bosses became now a challenge , but …. peoples arent never happy and QQ a lot still.Seriously learn how to smile and cheer about it and stop QQ.
It’snot fun to see you QQ everywhere nearly all maps chat are full of QQ , because of Boss and bugs and sw and other stuff.I mean even SW can still fail and it still does.And peoples already said it’s now way more easier to do Sw.Well for me it feels still the same.Some Maps are bad and fail and some are really good and rush straight to it,even,if there was a new Traitsystem patch.So actually it’s now like before just became a bit harder.
Also Tequatl is a giant dragon.He should be a challenge(even if he is a bigger challenge than Zhaitan.Press 1 to save the World !)
Yea people have to bring dps gear now.Higher dmg better success.
Solution: Join TTS guild. I am sure they will managed to kill Teq even with the double HP buff.
That’s not a solution. That’s part of the problem. Or more like (since i don’t hold any ill will towards that guild itself) the need for such guilds underscores the problem.
Remember, remember, 15th of November
I wish people would stop saying “i beat teq herego he is still easy and doable”
When people argue that he’s now impossible, its an exagerated statement exacerbated by frustration.
were just trying to say that the hp buff was excessive and that it alone makes the fight a complete crapshoot due to the amount of variables to be taken into account on a single map.
you could have buffed his hp just a little less people wouldnt complain, you could have lenghten the timer a little people wouldnt complain, etc etc
Theres must be a distinction between “people are too lazy” and “The boss has a effort/reward ratio thats too low”.
Triple trouble is everyone’s favorite example for that, it requires way more effort and coordination than most people are willing to put in for the reward it gives.
Thats what people dont want to see Teq become. He’s a cool, awesome world boss that was a blast to do before patch, with or without any overly organized maps, Anet could have buffed his hp just a little more and im sure it would have been great.
Please guys, dont mistakenly mix in the same bowl the real reasons for our complaints about Teq
The problem I’m seeing is that people refuse to adapt. Maybe Anet will fix it, or maybe this is intended; if you want to kill teq you need to crit. 3/4 of the zerg is still standing off to his right foot.. You have to attack in between his legs/his chest (without targeting if you’re ranged). I am getting crits on my staff ele this way. Turrets need to prioritize cleansing this spot.
The mistakes I have seen thus far have been “rookie” mistakes. Out of three attempts since the change, had batteries fail twice and on another map nobody returned to the southern turrets and we got a bone wall.
No more pvt or other bad stat gear folks. Bring zerk or sinister gear.
The problem I’m seeing is that people refuse to adapt. Maybe Anet will fix it, or maybe this is intended; if you want to kill teq you need to crit. 3/4 of the zerg is still standing off to his right foot.. You have to attack in between his legs/his chest (without targeting if you’re ranged). I am getting crits on my staff ele this way. Turrets need to prioritize cleansing this spot.
The mistakes I have seen thus far have been “rookie” mistakes. Out of three attempts since the change, had batteries fail twice and on another map nobody returned to the southern turrets and we got a bone wall.
LoL i couldn’t agree more.If people even refuse to adapt and try new tackticks that is just……If people try to learn something new instead of just whining on the forums that will be great.
(edited by moiraine.2753)
Do you even know how much time took people to learn how to do Tequatl before it became farmable?Atleast a year+.
And two big nerfs.Why should we wait a year for those nerfs if we can skip the drama and do it in a week? Or even faster, since making him completely crittable (and not just in a hidden spot) would likely be enough?
Remember, remember, 15th of November
(edited by Astralporing.1957)
LoL i couldn’t agree more.If people even refuse to adapt and try new tackticks that is just……If people try to learn something new instead of just whining on the forums that will be great.
lol
There is nothing new to be learned. Its just more dmg, more people and more tedious – thats it. No new mechanic, no new moves at all.
Tequatl IS POSSIBLE to kill still.
-SethSS taken about 10 mins ago. Was 1min 30s left. Did it with pugs
good job everyone who’s been there!Nobody says its impossible. The question is whether its worth the effort and if the changes really are “more fun” or just a scam to give some wannabe pros the idea of a challenge, even though no mechanics are changed and more pug maps will simply fail cause of missing amount of viable people.
If you are all fine doing twice the work for the same small amount of loot – go ahead!
From teq you can get up to 2,5g upon completion. Also 4 chests, it’s up to you to decide if it’s worth waiting 30mins and killing him next 20. It was for sure my favourite tequatl event up to date, cause everyone gave more than just 111111111111. But I have to admit, 200% HP is an overkill. That buffed Teq required a lot of my skills and knowledge to command it successfully, but also players cooperation. I’d agree for 150% HP, as it would give a chance for pugs with unexperienced commanders, but still be kinda challenging.
-Seth
(edited by Sidain.6059)
LoL i couldn’t agree more.If people even refuse to adapt and try new tackticks that is just……If people try to learn something new instead of just whining on the forums that will be great.
lol
There is nothing new to be learned. Its just more dmg, more people and more tedious – thats it. No new mechanic, no new moves at all.
Then you have to learn how to read.Have you not see what rhapsody.3615@ wrote?If you have missed it read it again.It is quite obvious that people still have things to be tought.
Doubling the hp of a boss does not make it more challenging, it makes it longer and tedious. Do people really enjoy going back and forth from the laser to Tequatl upteenth number of times before disposing of them?
If their going to make it more challenging, then make it more challenging, leave the hp alone.
If were going to talk about efficiency, one mine as well just go farm SW instead. You get far more out of chest training or jumping in the tail end of a VW map instead.
Why 200%? if it had been 150% or you could crit him anywhere else but the kill zone between his front feet people wouldn’t be complaining. If this is not just an oversight
and teq really is now just for the so called hard-core then maybe double his hp up again to give the hard-core that extra challenge.
The problem is they advertised a doubling of HP in exchange for allowing crits, and I can buy that. But It is hardly critable. I did it this morning, 80% of people did not know bout the HP-crit change and the crit spot is not obvious at all (btw is it a bug or a feature that we can only crit him there?). So people don’t crit him, the fight is twice longer and very difficult to do in time.
Tequatl IS POSSIBLE to kill still.
-SethSS taken about 10 mins ago. Was 1min 30s left. Did it with pugs
good job everyone who’s been there!
We did it with ATT guild spawn, and we got it down with 8 min, 31s left on the clock.
We got a 9:02 kill last night, its very much so not impossible and its actually quite a bit more fun now. People standing back and ranging will no longer get a kill. People will have to melee and actively take part in the battle.
It still seems weird to me that the guild wars community (or at least the vocal ones on this forum) seem to think that when there is a fight which makes you take an active part in the outcome of the fight its a bad thing. Thats what this game is based on: active combat. Anet seems to be taking a much more aggressive stance on making the combat more active with these patches and i LOVE it.
FYI, I am in [EG]. We now have 3 defense teams clearing out the mobs at the turrets, and two response teams clearing out fingers. The finger clearing really does seem to make the difference because that poison stacking will decimate a zerg now. We are now running full berzerker gear. Warriors now can run Phalanx Strength which fixes the might problem we had before. You can also now use all fields now, so time warps/symbols/water fields now no longer reduce dmg by decreasing might, they actually increase damage, its wonderful!
P.S. we also got a successful TT wurm kill last night. It was a little tight, we had about 30 seconds to spare first phase, but phase 2 is now WAY easier.
So your saying we should simply eliminate all the classes and builds that don’t have melee ability. Seriously?
Or are you saying there should be world bosses that can only be defeated by range?
IMO (and I know it’s not shared by some), increasing the hp of Tequatl doesn’t make them tougher.
Prior to the patch, I had done Tequatl daily, and at different times. I never found a map that couldn’t beat them, as by now, everybody and their dog knows what to do. Sure you still will have a handful of people that lay around refusing to WP, but you have that on every map.
Despite Tequatl giving better rewards than others, they were not really impressive to begin with. The time it takes now + the “X” factor of the group being able to complete it or not, pretty much puts this boss in the “leave alone” list.
While I know what to do and how to maximize my dps, I can’t control the other 100 or so people on the map. I suspect in the next little while, Tequatl will eventually become a wasteland for the most part.
So your saying we should simply eliminate all the classes and builds that don’t have melee ability. Seriously?
Or are you saying there should be world bosses that can only be defeated by range?
ranged classes can still stand in melee range….
yes, for a few seconds.
DeadlySynz.3471@
You are exagerating.Give it a month or two without any nerfs and Tequatl will be regularly farmed again.
Players are pretty practical, if a boss is not worth it they simply won’t bother and such bosses will be completely ignored.
Tqtl got nerfed in the past to prevent this, and if it’s back to being to much trouble it will get nerfed again.
Well i was at a Tequatl event and well we failed , but the problem wasn’t really that his health was so much i mean we still got him down to 50 % of his health , even ,if the turreter didnt know what to do and aimed for his head ( which is bugged) and no one know that there is a secret critzone , but still 50 % down … so i think , if i was on a better map.He will be able to farm.I don’t see the problem in Tequatl itself.I see the problem in the ppls , that totally don’t know what to do on the turrets and smashing random buttons or those bugs for example with the Head , that it doesnt remove “hardening scaled”.
EDIT: But i think there will be probably a nerf patch coming,because QQ is starting again.
We were on one of the organised guild with TS maps. Didn’t fair a huge amount better tbh
Anet, if you don’t nerf his HP, will you at least consider extending his timer to 20-25 min?
Finally a challenge for the hardcore players,…
You gotta be kidding, right? A challenge for hardcore players would be to complete arah solo without armor or kill lupicus only using dodges.
Teq is not a hardcore challenge, it is a game of roulette. If you happen to be lucky and get on a map with decent players (that is – using proper class, gear and rotations), then you can succeed easily and actually be done in no time. If you get unlucky, tough (getting on a map with noobs and afkers), then no matter what you do, what is your personal skill and performance and how well you prepared for the encounter, you will fail anyway. I honestly don’t care how they buff or nerf tequatl or any other bosses. I did them before the “broke everything” patch, I did them after the patch, now I do them after the “try to fix things” patch.
They were no challenge before and they are no challenge still. What I could use, though, would be a tool to prevent random noobs from joining a map I play on. I hate how Anet forces me to carry underleveled necros in healing gear that spend all the time on floor. Let us play with people we choose, people of similar thinking and skill. After you let us manage the map copies, then you can buff tequatl even more to be an actual challenge. But now with all the intrusive noobs all around, some content is completely uplayable, like TT.
Don’t even bother talking to these people, they can’t see this, it’s pure luck to find a good map and this is wrong.
Timer is fine, so is the HP.
It´s just an (not gonna say ltp) issue of knowing what to do and when.
Ranged dps is no longer viable. If you want to do Tequatl, do melee.
There are since the patch even more possibilities to do this right and not just basicly two (about melee & armors/traits).
I am actually glad that they beefed it up a bit.
Tequatl is not supposed to be an typical 11111111 press f for loot boss.
So if pug maps are no longer capable of adjusting their tactics to recent changes, you may want to join a specialized guild or community.
For those not much has changed when the timer is concerned.
The only thing that bugs me atm are the massive lags on this event, that we got since the patch. Just a bit annoying, nothing tragic either.
So your saying we should simply eliminate all the classes and builds that don’t have melee ability. Seriously?
Or are you saying there should be world bosses that can only be defeated by range?
Which professions don’t have melee abilities? Or are you saying that no one should need to have to switch out skills or weapons before the encounter starts?
ANet may give it to you.
(edited by Just a flesh wound.3589)
Teq is fine
He is meant to be a harder a boss and he was like this when he was first introcduced simular to TT Wurms.
The problem isn’t Teq it’s people as eventually more and more people will get in his crit spot thus uping the damage.
Furthermore the leeches as Teq like any good events scales to the amount of people invovled. To many people are AFK in the corner, Dead and refuse to WP, or rezzing the dead and all these people are in the area actively contributing to the scaling of the event but not helping to complete it. The people actually return to waypointing upon complete death and people stop rezzing those who are actively bieng a burden is the day Teq will die. As all three of these people are burdens to the entire event that everyone else has to pick up the slack for and that isn’t right.
Dead are just burden but the rezzers are just as bad as there not contributing to the fight but instead contributing to the problem. These people know they’ll be rezzed and in the time it takes to rez one of these dead people 3 people who were merely downed would have died and thus the problem compounds over time.
Fingers, Turrets, and so forth are only minor issues compared to the people whose only purpose it seems is to scale the fight and be a burden. Also yes there is a very large difference between down and dead and if your reviving people you should only revive those who are downed less your contributing to the problem.
Lol. Yeah, everyone gets that it is do-able with a bit of effort under the right circumstances.
They just don’t think it’s worth the effort and would like it scaled back down to a level of difficulty that is fitting for a free-for-all encounter.
We got a 9:02 kill last night, its very much so not impossible and its actually quite a bit more fun now. People standing back and ranging will no longer get a kill. People will have to melee and actively take part in the battle.
It still seems weird to me that the guild wars community (or at least the vocal ones on this forum) seem to think that when there is a fight which makes you take an active part in the outcome of the fight its a bad thing. Thats what this game is based on: active combat. Anet seems to be taking a much more aggressive stance on making the combat more active with these patches and i LOVE it.
FYI, I am in [EG]. We now have 3 defense teams clearing out the mobs at the turrets, and two response teams clearing out fingers. The finger clearing really does seem to make the difference because that poison stacking will decimate a zerg now. We are now running full berzerker gear. Warriors now can run Phalanx Strength which fixes the might problem we had before. You can also now use all fields now, so time warps/symbols/water fields now no longer reduce dmg by decreasing might, they actually increase damage, its wonderful!
P.S. we also got a successful TT wurm kill last night. It was a little tight, we had about 30 seconds to spare first phase, but phase 2 is now WAY easier.
All this requires thinking and understanding of the game. It’s impossible and broken until there’s a standardized way which the worst players in the game can follow.
In other words: I like your stance towards a challenge.
Ingame Name: Guardian Erik
(edited by FrizzFreston.5290)
We are now running full berzerker gear.
We are now running full berzerker ge…
We are now running full berzerk…
…full…zerk….
And this brings us back to the old problem.
So your saying we should simply eliminate all the classes and builds that don’t have melee ability. Seriously?
Or are you saying there should be world bosses that can only be defeated by range?Which professions don’t have melee abilities? Or are you saying that no one should need to have to switch out skills or weapons before the encounter starts?
What does melee abilities have to do with it?
Which light armor do we change out to so we can survive in the melee crit box, because the light armor classes are designed so we cant stay there.
After the class changes I know for a fact none of my characters were doing double DPS. Doubling all world boss health was just bad math and obviously reactionary from the 1 or 2 developers who decided to play their game. “Wow! Way too easy! Let’s fix this. HPx2 And we’re done. Time to cash my paycheck and go to the bar”
Triple Trouble is a terrible boss. Now Tequatl is a terrible boss. I don’t want to log on to GW2 to get horribly angry at the game and other players. This isn’t fun or casual any more. Getting in to the map 30 mins early to do prep with other players only to fail over and over is incredibly frustrating. I guess I could “get gud” or whatever the clownshoes earlier in the thread said. Or I’ll just do something else, or simply not play the game at all. There was literally no good reason to do Triple Trouble. Now there’s no reason to do Tequatl, either. Too frustrating, too random, not enough reward.
I swear all the veteran enemies are much tougher now that they take 5 mins to kill if you’re not full DPS build. Something, something gear variety being viable now but it only looks as if berserker gear is the only way to go… still.
Gonna say right now. If ANet doesn’t fix this inane BS, I’m definitely not ordering their expansion. Definitely have no interest in purchasing more character slots either.
So your saying we should simply eliminate all the classes and builds that don’t have melee ability. Seriously?
Or are you saying there should be world bosses that can only be defeated by range?Which professions don’t have melee abilities? Or are you saying that no one should need to have to switch out skills or weapons before the encounter starts?
What does melee abilities have to do with it?
Which light armor do we change out to so we can survive in the melee crit box, because the light armor classes are designed so we cant stay there.
The idea is that u have a zerg that is all working together, eles are throwing down water fields, necros using vamp aura, guardians using Receive the Light. People need to be traited for some defense. People need to know to dodge the stomps. People need a stun break/stability for the fear (or dodge/block it). People need to take an ACTIVE role in playing this game.
Standing at the back and pressing 1 is too boring, if thats something u want to do just dont do Tequatl, let those of us that want a challenge and want to be actively adapting our roles do that, its very rare in this game, let us have TWO now. (TT wurm / Teq)
My guild [EG] Ethereal Guardians spawned tequatl, fought and killed it for the first time post patch with 9:02 on the timer on saturday. The biggest thing we noticed was not being able to push all the way through burn phases before he started attacking again because the HP increase was THAT massive. I will say though that we all thoroughly enjoyed the fight. There was about 90-100 of us and we were extremely proud of the increased focus, work and challenge it took for us to get a normally smooth run. After doing tequatl we spawned the buffed triple trouble wurm with approximately 125 people coordinating in teamspeak. Phase 1 was tight, if you miss a burn phase at amber it can be close. Phase 2 of the wurm head we did a triple decap and finished with 50 seconds left. Needles to say we were proud of what we’ve been doing since the bosses come out.
As the leader of a large PVX guild that has been downing these things with consistency and regularity, I can say that there was a very long time where tequatl was the domain ONLY of special interest communities (like TTS, ATT), strong PVE server communities (like blackgate) or organized PVX guilds like mine. More casual and unorganized groups were crying for it to be nerfed but eventually they learned to work together and improve their play to the point where random maps could organize and kill it with some regularity. Even now this was happening with triple trouble wurm (ex: EVOS guild running LFG TT kills) and organizing pugs. They have had many failures with pugs but slowly people learn. That’s just how it is with many casual GW2 gamers.
Hard content should remain challenging in order to encourage people to work together and be proud of something. If everything in the game is faceroll, GW2 would be abandoning its most dedicated playerbase. I would encourage your server communities and guilds to see this as a rallying call to challenge yourselves and prepare for more large raid content that hopefully will be coming down the pipe with Heart of Thorns. I for one am excited
Guild Leader of the Ethereal Guardians [EG]
(edited by CHiLLiN.9265)
Is it September 2013 again? Everyone seems to think Tequatl is too hard again and needs a nerf. I beg to differ.
Here’s how to beat Tequatl.
First of all, you need manpower. If the map is empty then the fight is going to be unwinnable, full stop. Once you have a good pool of people, organize 30m-1hr before the fight begins.
Defense is a must. Those turrets are key to victory; if one of the batteries falls, then you will lose precious seconds and Tequatl’s scales will pile up.
The turrets are also responsible for cleansing the vanguard and buffing their offensive power with the elixir bombs.
The typical defense points for the turrets are:
North Turrets: Boat wreckage north of it, hills east of the megalaser, and a group close to the turrets to repair damages and kill claws as fast as possible.
South Turrets: Boat wreckage south of battery, hills north of battery, and a group to kill claws as fast as possible. Between the two, I FIND THIS TO BE THE HARDER OF THE DEFENSES. The spawns are more relentless it seems.
The Zerg:
You cannot mindlessly pile on the nearest spot on Tequatl anymore. Introduced in the last patch is a weak point in which you can critically hit Tequatl. This means that PVT gear is now mostly for survivability where as Berserker and Assassin’s is in for doing the big domages during burn phases. In this latest experience, this one gets kind of hectic because now you actually have to get in under Tequatl to hit the critical point. This is also a nexus of where claws can drop poison clouds, so perhaps a new team needs to be assigned to run around the field and shatter claws so they pose less of a hazard to the Zerg.
Defense Phase:
At each quarter of Tequatl’s health bar, you will hit a defense phase called the Charge Phase. There are three batteries you need to defend during a charge phase, plus the Megalaser.
The East Battery spawns Claws and lots of krait hypnoss, usually veteran or elites, and is pretty straightforward: kill claws, kill risen.
The North Battery is lousy with Risen Grubs; their holes will appear and will need to be stomped ASAP or otherwise you will get overwhelmed with their AoE attacks. Woe betide you if a champ spawns; it must die immediately.
The West Battery will have a large number of risen plague bearers and abominations attacking the battery. Use hard CC and knockback to control the abominations until they explode; when they do, they will leave behind a toxic cloud you want to avoid. Deal with other risen as you normally would.
The Megalaser will come under a constant assault of risen, including champions. The biggest threat by far will be the two Champion Hypnoss that spawn near the north boats during the charge phase. Rangers are typically employed to deal with them using Entangle to immobilize it. Entangle no longer has the duration it once did, so two or more Rangers will have to work in tandem. Once the Hypnoss is called out, a moderately sized group of 10 or so heroes should be able to deal with it in summary fashion. Killing the Hypnoss is imperative; the size of the minion group they can summon is overwhelming and will almost certainly destroy the Megalaser.
The Burn:
At :25-20 seconds until Megalaser is fully charged. everyone should head back to the beach and prepare to level all of their might against that weak point mentioned earlier. The only thing required here is to make sure everyone is on the same page before the fight begins. The standard rules apply: res downed allies, dead allies teleport to the nearest Waypoint and swim back. With sufficient manpower, and following these loose guidelines, Tequatl is easy to down.
You do not need all ascended gear, you do not need consumables, you do not need to use any special buffoonery (although if it makes it easier, there’s no reason not to take it). I hope this guide helps someone out there. Good luck, Tyrians.
I think you pretty much said it!
Now if they would make the loot a bit better than the frequent disappointing spoon drops we seem to get, it might encourage folk to pay attention and work more together.