Guild Wars 2

If the Sylvari manage to cure and heal the land of Orr, who will rule it?

Its denizens are long gone, killed by the charr & their own magic.

I can imagine it being a hot debate between Charr and Humans.

Humans because it was Humans who ruled Orr, and there might still be many humans around with Orrian heritage.
Charr may argue that they own Orr because their forefathers would have conquered it if it hadn’t been for the Orrians submerging both themselves and the Charr invaders into the sea.

Or maybe the Sylvari will claim it themselves so that neither the humans nor Charr can ruin the land again?

I’m not sure what the other races will think. The norn will most likely not even care since it’s so far from home.

What do you think will happen to Orr?

In a recent GuildMag interview, it was stated that Orr is basically under Pact jurisdiction for the foreseeable future. None of the races are in any position to be considering colonization right now.

As Aaron says, but I think in that interview they were only talking about the recent state. I’m sure Orr won’t stay as a gigantic pact base forever.

I’m sure this will be a human land, just look at the city-sized god temples. Charrs would have to demolish that. Humans wouldn’t be pleased. Also if the charrs say they conquered it, it’s theirs (btw they never conqauered it, just assaulted it), then why are the Seperatists bad guys? Humans conquered Ascalon AND built a kindom they inhabited for 1400 years and now they only have the Fields of Ruin. So basically a war would break out for Orr and Ascalon.

A part could be reclaimed by humans as New-Ascalon, and another part as Krytan authority. Or a united human nation where a senate of royal-bloodline kings/queens/warmarshals/emperors rule over a newly united humanity once again.

Or maybe if Elona gets liberated, an Ossa will unite Elona, reclaim the crystal desert and will claim Orr too.

THE CHARR WILL TAKE IT, AS WE SHOULD HAVE BEFORE THAT COWARD VIZIER SANK IT INTO THE SEA! FOR THE LEGIONS!

it’s not the sylvari that are cleansing it, it’s the pact, who happens to be led by a sylvari.

it would most likely be neutral ground, and the priory and whispers probably want all that lost knowledge too much to let it be destroyed to place houses over it.

It will take some time till Orr is healed, the undead need to be exterminated and the land was underwater for decades and it shows. I can’t imagine anyone wanting to live in such a scary place, unless forced to find more land due to overpopulation. But given the current state of Tyria overpopulation is not gonna happen for a long time.

So my guess is that it will remain a deserted place for pretty long after the undead are gone, or that it will be open to every species, kinda like LA is now. This fits the mood of the game more than humanity reclaiming it, and Kryta is not in a position to do so anyway.

The Charr have no claim to the land at all, only if they occupied it, but that is not gonna happen as long as the Pact is around, and the Charr have enough problems of their own.

Orr is a stinking mess of muck nobody is going to want to live their.

I think a good description of what Orr is like could be rad in H.P. Lovecraft’s short story “Dagon”

Text here http://gutenberg.net.au/ebooks06/0600031h.html#17

Remember guys; the question remains about what’ll happen once Orr is cured/regrown, not what it looks like now

SinerAthin.2374:

Remember guys; the question remains about what’ll happen once Orr is cured/regrown, not what it looks like now

once it’s “cured/regrown”, it will still be a desolated wasteland full of ruins, bodies, and oversized sealife.

There will be pretty trees, too. Trahearne likes pretty trees.

BrunoBRS.5178:

once it’s “cured/regrown”, it will still be a desolated wasteland full of ruins, bodies, and oversized sealife.

I highly doubt that.

Ruins, yeah. They’ll remain.

But nature has a way of disposing of corpses, so they won’t be an issue.
I’m not sure what you mean by ‘Oversized sealife’ though, unless you are referring to the occasional bones.

Well the land will eventually be cured but the water will have to be off limits as it will be impossible to find anyone who wants to fight underwater to kill the risen there

Clearing the risen out from Orr isn’t going to be simple considering all the animals there seem to have been turned into risen and they are going to be lurking in every imaginable place, including off the coast. Even if the risen are cleared out and the source of Orr purifies the land and it becomes fertile with new life, there’s always the possibility that the human gods might return and reclaim Arah. Nobody will want to tell a god that they are no longer welcome.

The charr would tell the gods whatever they want, including a sword in the throat, and the Asura simply would not care what the gods had to say

dunnberry.2964:

The charr would tell the gods whatever they want, including a sword in the throat, and the Asura simply would not care what the gods had to say

Yeah ofc, talking about the charrs who got crushed by humans after just a word from Balthtazar to “conquer”? The charrs that were manipulated by a human god without who humans would still rule Ascalon? :P

Ofc a sword would be so efficient against gods that can shape continents within seconds.

About the asura, I don’t think the gods would negotiate with them, just wipe them off Tyria in a blink of an eye if needed.

If your gods are so kitten powerful and the Asura and charr suck so much…why don’t they come kill the elder dragons instead of the Asura and charr doing the main heavy lifting(actual heavy lifting of objects typically done by drunk norn)

dunnberry.2964:

If your gods are so kitten powerful and the Asura and charr suck so much…why don’t they come kill the elder dragons instead of the Asura and charr doing the main heavy lifting(actual heavy lifting of objects typically done by drunk norn)

Because they no longer care about puny mortals and maybe testing humanity.

It’s not about that they “can’t”, it’s about they “don’t”.

So they’ll just let humanity get wiped out and are okay with a dragon formally eating all their artifacts and making some humans question the 6 gods? Yea more like they can’t kill them because they are magic and oh what do the dragons eat? That’s right

dunnberry.2964:

So they’ll just let humanity get wiped out and are okay with a dragon formally eating all their artifacts and making some humans question the 6 gods? Yea more like they can’t kill them because they are magic and oh what do the dragons eat? That’s right

You are hopelessly single-minded. Gods can give and seal magic.

We killed Zhaitan, he fell. When Abadon fell, he reshaped a half continent. Whe he was defeated at Nightfall, his unleashing power almost destroyed 2 worlds.

Yeah a drake would consume them so much. Humans aren’t extinct and aren’t that close. Maybe if they would be in a totally hopeless situation they would help. Or let their chosen race die because they aren’t worthy.

dunnberry.2964:

The charr would tell the gods whatever they want, including a sword in the throat, and the Asura simply would not care what the gods had to say

The charr haven’t managed to kill anything they called “gods”, be it Titans, Destroyers or Abaddon. They actually worshipped those (if not Abaddon directly). What makes you think they would manage to kill someone like Grenth or Balthazar? It was humanity that killed the gods of the Charr (and an alliance of Norn, Asura, Humans and Dwarves that fought the Destroyers).

The Asura would most likely try to fire some giant laser-thingy at one of the human gods if it came to that – if they don’t eliminate themselves through some reactor explosion first, that is.

Back on topic, Orr is full with giant corals and other things that grew underwater, it will take one hell of an effort to clean this mess up. Someone who wants to live there again must be pretty desperate to find some place to stay. Especially with nice neighbours like Palawa Joko and his minions. I think Orr will remain desolate for quite some time after the slight undead infestation has been dealt with.

Quagguns

But to be serious, I geuss multi-racial, like LA.

I suspect it will remain in Pact control for the foreseeable future it going to take ages to clean up that mess

I always imagined Orr constantly reeks of rotting fish and flesh dripping with maggots.

The sheer amount of dead flesh would likely mean that smell would persist for decades.

Well it was a human kingdom before it sunk, so I guess as long as you find someone who is distantly related to King Reza, you could restore the kingdom of Orr. The Charr certainly don’t hold any right over the land, since they never conquered it and they had enough trouble with Ascalon, I highly doubt they would go through that all over again.

The Sylvari also hold no claim over it. They did nothing more to reclaim it than any other race and they have no history there. Same goes for Asura and Norn, before anyone asks.

and humans abandon it or threw it out so they lost the right to reclaim it.

so none have the right the reclaim it but i gess if one of the races truely needs the space the would get it but given how it is right now i dont think anyone want it and the only race that looks like they might need it in the future would be sylvari if they can get a new tree to grow there.

Consortium will buy it and fill it with angry Norn and Charr settlers.

Couldn’t be any more dangerous than Southsun Cove. There’s a reason we see no Risen Karka…

“Rightful claims” only factor in if there is a greater law system that agrees and is strong enough to impose that ideal. Do fallen kingdoms automatically get restored to descendants of the people that once held them? or people of similar cultures? Not that I know of. So who gets to live there will depend entirely on the political climate.

One possibility would be that it may be inhabited by bandits and adventurers while the established racial powers tend to their own interests. These bandits and adventurers may in time, form a cohesive society like the pirates of Lions Arch did.

or, as has already been mentioned, it will go to the powers that free it of undead and claim it. In this case, the Pact. So may get broken up between the organizations or shared as community property.

It’s unlikely that the gods are suddenly going to return in the foreseeable future.

My inclination is that if Orr was to be rendered safe and inhabitable, it will primarily be by humans, sylvari, and quaggans. Particularly devout humans will want to restore and take care of the holy sites of the gods, the sylvari have an interest in restoring the land, and for the quaggans, the waterways of a secured Orr would provide locations that would be difficult for enemies of the quaggan, such as krait, to reach. All of these races get on fairly well with one another, so there probably wouldn’t be any conflicts there regardless of who’s technically in charge.

Asura would probably establish a few installations in order to study Orr’s magical properties, although the humans and to a lesser extent the sylvari would probably want to make sure that ‘study’ did not translate into ‘desecrate’ or ‘despoil’.

Charr… I don’t see having a reason to claim Orr beyond greed or spite, and I think Smodur and Malice are more politically astute than that (Bangar might not be, but isn’t really in a position to contest). The original charr attack on Orr was as part of the larger charr-human wars and Orr doesn’t border charr territory – if the peace holds, there’s really no reason for the charr to have any particular interest in it apart from as a simple land grab. The hypothetical repopulated Orr would probably have a charr presence, especially since there’s a good chance it will eclipse Lion’s Arch as Tyria’s main port, but I don’t think Iron or Ash would make a territorial claim on it, and Blood or Flame wouldn’t be able to back it up.

EDIT: The Pact strikes me as being unlikely to make direct territorial claims on it either. None of the major orders have any direct interest in politically ruling a territory, so as long as any settlers are friendly to the Pact and its objectives, they’d probably happily step aside to allow Orr to be reborn in whatever shape that happens to be. In fact, if hypothetically Orr was to be cleared of Risen, the Order of Whispers would probably want to have a nation formed there, and the Vigil at least would probably be eager to relocate its troops to fight the other dragons and threats. Fort Trinity would probably remain a major Pact headquarters, and the Pact would probably remain a strong political force in the reborn nation, but I don’t think they plan on permanently becoming Orr’s new government (at least not in the public eye). The Pact as a ‘caretaker’ government does seem likely, though.

Korsbaek.9803:

and humans abandon it or threw it out so they lost the right to reclaim it.

so none have the right the reclaim it but i gess if one of the races truely needs the space the would get it but given how it is right now i dont think anyone want it and the only race that looks like they might need it in the future would be sylvari if they can get a new tree to grow there.

When did they abandon it? The whole kingdom got flooded with 90% of its inhabitants.

I don’t think humans would let the sylvari just grow another tree in the middle of their most holy ground.

But humans did not defeat the Risen and and did not restore the Orr. Pact did. And Pact was funded by all nations. So i don’t see how humans can come and say “hooray, this is our land now, kk thx bye, we will settle Orr as new human kingdom, everyone else can comply or gtfo”

I don’t know if humans will outright claim it, but the most devout will probably try to restore the cathedrals.

Rednik.3809:

But humans did not defeat the Risen and and did not restore the Orr. Pact did. And Pact was funded by all nations. So i don’t see how humans can come and say “hooray, this is our land now, kk thx bye, we will settle Orr as new human kingdom, everyone else can comply or gtfo”

If an Orrian descendant or even any descendant of Doric shows up, I’m sure he will have a right to claim the land after the pact moved on. The Pact doesn’t want to conquer the world.. just cleanse it.

So basically you are telling that if we defeat Jormag and gain the ancient norn/kodan territory back, the asura will move in or any random race that contributed? Humans are the part of the pact too, why would any other race have any rights claiming it?

Korsbaek.9803:

and humans abandon it or threw it out so they lost the right to reclaim it.

so none have the right the reclaim it but i gess if one of the races truely needs the space the would get it but given how it is right now i dont think anyone want it and the only race that looks like they might need it in the future would be sylvari if they can get a new tree to grow there.

They abandoned it? When? The whole peninsula blew up. Sure it was by a human mage, but that doesn’t mean all the Orrians wanted their home to sink. No they didn’t abandon it, it was destroyed, killing almost all of the inhabitants (and invaders) with it.

Technically the kingdom of Orr, however was never dissolved, so any descendant of Reza or Doric could claim the throne. By human laws it would be rightful. The question is, would the other races accept that?
And why wouldn’t they? The humans are allies to all of them, stronger humans, means stronger allies against the dragon threat. The Charr might be “not cool” with it, but they can’t really speak against it openly, since it could also endanger the peace treaty over Ascalon. Besides, if the humans get Orr back they might “forget” about Ascalon, atleast that is what the Charr officials could tell their general public. Of course no human of ascalonian heritage would forget their homeland, but atleast their lobby in the human kingdom could get weaker.
The Asura only get more room for their gate network, the Sylvari get land to grow some stuff on or whatever their goal as a race might be, besides being vegetables and the Norn, well they don’t decide anything as a race anyway. Some might be against it, for whatever reason, but the general public will either support it or even more likely, don’t care.

Asura will note move in, but they will have the right to get something from victory. Colony, trade rights, diplomatic privileges, resources, share in trophies, etc. This is common practice, and i can’t see the reason why Orr must be excluded. If you cannot reclaim something by yourself and use foreign help, you are expected to pay proportionally for such help.

Gandarel.5091:

If an Orrian descendant or even any descendant of Doric shows up, I’m sure he will have a right to claim the land after the pact moved on. The Pact doesn’t want to conquer the world.. just cleanse it.

So basically you are telling that if we defeat Jormag and gain the ancient norn/kodan territory back, the asura will move in or any random race that contributed? Humans are the part of the pact too, why would any other race have any rights claiming it?

Have a right according to whom? There needs to be a greater authority to endorse those “rights”.

And by what authority would that descendant have a right to rule over anybody, human or otherwise? Unless peasantry is a caste that all non-noble humans are naturally born into and it’s just assumed that somebody needs to lord over them.

So for the kodan example, anybody who fights and risks life and limb would have a reasonable arguemnet about how they have just as much “right” to land that anyone else has. But they would have to back up that argument with the will and means to fight others who also have an argumentatively reasonable right to the same land. We know the kodan would be there in force. And we can expect the playable races to support their kodan allies. Anybody else would have a hard time competing but it isn’t a “rightful claim” issue because things like deeds and claims to thrones only exist in and are completely dependant on working governments. And fallen kingdoms aren’t working governments.

So a higher authority can be laws from an established organization consisting of a cooperation of equal nations (like a council, as long as each member nation agrees that the councils law is greater than the nations law) or decrees from divine beings (as long as the will of those divine beings is acknowledged as soverign by all involved) Otherwise, it’s just a land grab as has been the precedent set by the two most powerful races in Tyria.

Rednik.3809:

But humans did not defeat the Risen and and did not restore the Orr. Pact did. And Pact was funded by all nations. So i don’t see how humans can come and say “hooray, this is our land now, kk thx bye, we will settle Orr as new human kingdom, everyone else can comply or gtfo”

As has previously been stated, humans are part of the Pact, and if the other races have any political acumen at all they’d recognise the cultural and historic importance of Orr to humans. Respecting that sets a precedent that’s valuable to others that have lost land to the dragons such as the asura and norn – should the Pact manage to secure Quora Sum or the Far Shiverpeaks, then it’s to their benefit that the precedent of respecting prior claims is set rather than having every new cleansed land be a free-for-all. And officially at least, humans are an equal partner with the other races, even if what we see when we’re there is all asura and charr tech.

Another thing to consider is that the Order of Whispers is likely to be sensitive to such concerns, and possibly the Priory as well – and it’s the Pact that’s there now. While Orr’s future may be to be ruled by council rather than any one race, if it is to be handed over to an existing government, I think they would be more inclined to hand it over to humanity than, say, the charr. The obligations people have spoken of would be in the form of expecting the new Orr to be friendly and open to the other races (within reason), not granting land claims to anyone and everyone.

Possibly more significant, however, is the question of who would want to go there. Chances are, it is going to be humans more than other races (except possibly sylvari due to their wanting to heal the land), because of that cultural and historical significance, and in the absence of an installed government that will influence the government that eventually does form.

(On the comment about allowing a Pale Tree on Orr… I could see it, actually. It’s not shoved in our faces like the norn and charr, but there are indications that humans and sylvari do get along particularly well, including an interview indicating that humans were the first race sylvari had a good first contact with. Considering that if Orr becomes inhabitable it’ll be because of the sylvari and the Pale Tree, I could see humans, especially Melandru-worshippers, welcoming them.)

THAT ^ makes sense.

The same way the kodans allies would support them, the humans allies would support them in the importance they place in the cultural and historic importance. though, I doubt that support would neccesarily translate into building up a an entirely new kingdom.

remember, it would either be a whole new kingdom not under the jusrisdiction of kryta, or it would be ruled by the krytan government. either way, kryta would need to split it’s resources in half for huamns to get two kingdoms. So I would really expect all the races to have a hand in the rulership of the land (much like lions arch), through the pact. though, it would probably be very human centric due to the points Draxynnic laid out.

draxynnic.3719:

Possibly more significant, however, is the question of who would want to go there.

Answer is simple – every government with a half of brain. Orr is extremely valuable asset – top-level resource base (best metals and possibly other rare minerals), tons of magical artifacts (including VERY powerful ones) from Gods, Zhaitan and old Orr wizards, and on top of all – great place to everyone who wants establish/secure military presence and trade routes over the seas. Just 1 big naval&commercial base – and your nation is now a significant player with military and trade fleet.

Well. Then think about it this way:

The pact decides to loot and plunder ancient human artifacts and use/sell them. Other races will demolish temples, split up the land, and claim their share in the city of the gods, Arah.

What does that mean? You will think it twice to let the Pact help you. And to see your “allies” claim your ancestrasl lands and loot it – would you help them get theirs back? Or maybe you would wait for the opportunity to ambush them while they are busy with the next dragon and at the moment the dragon is defeated, the charr legions for example will charge the pact tropps, exit the alliance with other races and call back troops from the Pact. (for example, if the Queen would call back the humans from the pact, I’m sure most of them would obey. Who would you listen to? Your boss or a royal ruler?)

Every race lost ground to the dragons and I’m sure reclaiming those lands for each will be enough for them. Ofc other races won’t be kicked out, it’s just that Orr won’t have a charr county and such things.

@Rednik, who would the asura for example trade with if they claim Orr? Upset humans from Elona who are angry because your race claimed that land (btw still under Palawa’s oppression), or the Canthan navy that is coming to Orr to get things right?

No one will force you to “loot and plunder ancient human artifacts and use/sell them”, “demolish temples, split up the land, and claim their share in the city of the gods”. But if you not thinking about establish your constant national presence in all archaeological and scientific expeditions at minimum, then you are very bad ruler. This land can contain things that can sink continents , rise undead armies, grant ability to manipulate divine magic, etc.

Rednik.3809:

No one will force you to “loot and plunder ancient human artifacts and use/sell them”, “demolish temples, split up the land, and claim their share in the city of the gods”. But if you not thinking about establish your constant national presence in all archaeological and scientific expeditions at minimum, then you are very bad ruler. This land can contain things that can sink continents , rise undead armies, grant ability to manipulate divine magic, etc.

And can totally crush the alliance and undermine any kind of hardly-earned trust.

That would probably be the starting point, but as time passes I think the Pact would withdraw from direct rulership. They’d still have an influential voice, but I don’t think the Pact really wants to be making the day-to-day decisions for an indefinite period – once civilian settlers start arriving, they’d probably be looking to set up a structure for the citizens to govern themselves, albeit with the orders maintaining a voice in that government (and the Order of Whispers working behind the scenes to make sure that what they want happens, happens).

The end result would probably be something similar to the Ministry… possibly with a monarch installed, but said monarch could, like modern European monarchs, be mostly ceremonial… especially if it’s the Krytan monarch rather than the Order of Whispers finding an Orrian heir from somewhere. Humans would probably have enough of a majority for it to be regarded more as a human nation than LA, but unlike Kryta, I expect there would be significant nonhuman settlements and nonhumans formally within the government to represent them.

EDIT: On the stuff that’s in Orr… at the moment, it’s the Pact that gets first grabs on that. However, I expect the Pact would respect the historical and cultural importance of the area and relics to humanity, and would show appropriate respects to human sensibilities in what they do with it – both because two of the three were founded by humans, and because it makes sound political sense.

What the Pact isn’t going to do is allow Orr’s heritage to be parceled out to anyone who can pretend to a claim just because members of that race were involved in the Pact effort.

Keep in mind that while there were charr and asura in the Pact, none of those nations were officially involved in Orr’s liberation. The Arcane Council has been more of a hundrance than a help. Jennah and Smodur have been supporting the Pact, but I think Smodur is politically astute enough not to slap Jennah in the face by putting a claim on Orr’s treasures (better to cement the charr-human alliance, and then if the humans do get anything nice out of it, they’ll be used for the benefit of both). The norn aren’t really a nation at all in the formal sense of the word.

Of the five, only the Grove could really be said to have been directly involved in the Pact’s efforts in Orr and thus have a potential claim on Orr’s treasures on that basis… but again, I don’t think the Pale Tree would disrespect human heritage there.

What’s probably going to happen with the artifacts and historical sites, to be honest, is that the Priory, particularly human members therof, will become their caretakers. It’s certainly not going to become a free-for-all where anyone can levy a claim in the hopes of finding something unless the Pact really drops the ball.

Give any artifacts directly god related to the humans…likely and best bet is making a similar Lions Arch city as the hub and small towns and fortresses around it similar to how LA is with blood tide coast and gendarren fields…than all races who have lost their homeland can make new homes there… That or a skritt/quaggan coalition that forms an allied nation/province there

Well, in our hypothetical scenario of a cleansed Orr, it’s likely that the Risen would have been long since removed from the eastern coast of the Sea of Sorrows (currently they’re found in large numbers through western Sparkfly and halfway up Bloodtide Coast) so those regions will be open to resettlement as well. Sparkfly, I think, will end up birthing a hylek nation, while the skritt would be able to reoccupy the Challdar Gorges region. Quaggan would probably be more concerned with the waterways in the vicinity of Orr, and as long as whatever state ends up in Orr recognises quaggans as citizens or allies and is willing to help defend them, they probably wouldn’t care overmuch about what shape that nation forms. A strong friendly force in Orr would possibly be able to keep the krait out of the Terzetto bay region at least and potentially the whole Sea of Elon, presenting ample space for a new quaggan nation to be born distinct from Orr. It might also be possible with the distraction of the Risen removed to kraitproof the Leeshore Gauntlet, Ocean’s Gullet and Mournful Depths regions for settlement by quaggans.

@dunnberry

If a house gets flooded because of a river, and the family living in the house drowns (maybe only one survives), who will get the house?

There are 3 groups trying to claim it: the thief that tried to break in and murder the family, the guys who helped tidy the house, or the relatives.

Who would you give it to? Give the belongings to the family and just sell the house?

No it’s more like saying if the father went and broke a water blockade(filter) which caused the house to flood and kill everyone than a few hundred years later some far off cousin saying “hey that’s my great great great blah blah 1/2 uncles twice removed old house” also in your scenario how does the thief try to kill the family when they are dead from drowning…

Gandarel.5091:

@dunnberry

If a house gets flooded because of a river, and the family living in the house drowns (maybe only one survives), who will get the house?

There are 3 groups trying to claim it: the thief that tried to break in and murder the family, the guys who helped tidy the house, or the relatives.

Who would you give it to? Give the belongings to the family and just sell the house?

except the thief, the helpers and the relatives all live by separate legislations, and the house was on neutral ground for all three. it’s not as simple as “my grand grandparents lived here before it got blown out of the face of the planet, so it’s mine”. if things were that simple, the situation at the middle east would’ve been long solved.

Thief = invading charr who later would try to claim based on that assault.

Gandarel.5091:

Thief = invading charr who later would try to claim based on that assault.

the charrs, kryta, and the pact all have their separate rules. there is no UN equivalent of tyria, an organization to rule nations.

and orr has no ties with any of them. orr and kryta were separate nations, just like the US and canada, for example. “we’re also human” doesn’t make a valid argument to claim a land that was never yours to begin with.

BrunoBRS.5178:

Gandarel.5091:

Thief = invading charr who later would try to claim based on that assault.

the charrs, kryta, and the pact all have their separate rules. there is no UN equivalent of tyria, an organization to rule nations.

and orr has no ties with any of them. orr and kryta were separate nations, just like the US and canada, for example. “we’re also human” doesn’t make a valid argument to claim a land that was never yours to begin with.

Once part of the same empire, and the rulers of Orr and Ascalon are relatives to Kryta’s royality. So basically Orr is the royal line’s possession, if no Orrian descendant is alive then it goes to the next in the line – even if that is a distant relative.