Guild Wars 2

Fungalfoot.7213:

Lopez.7369:

I think Dhuumfire is still worth it, mostly because nothing else in our trees is really that great.

We do have way too many trash traits. The fact that reanimator still hasn’t been addressed is just baffling.

I am still baffled why PvP necros haven’t cried out that they can’t use their heal/utility/elite for a second or two after Death Shroud is depleted and they are reverted back to normal. Game breaking!

Streets.2705:

Fungalfoot.7213:

Lopez.7369:

I think Dhuumfire is still worth it, mostly because nothing else in our trees is really that great.

We do have way too many trash traits. The fact that reanimator still hasn’t been addressed is just baffling.

I am still baffled why PvP necros haven’t cried out that they can’t use their heal/utility/elite for a second or two after Death Shroud is depleted and they are reverted back to normal. Game breaking!

We’ve been crying about that for almost a year now. After a time, you just learn to live with the Thieves, the Guardians, and the bugs.

Lopez.7369:

I think Dhuumfire is still worth it, mostly because nothing else in our trees is really that great.

It is 30 points to get ONLY 2.9s of burn (or whatever it is with nm runes) per 12-14 (on average) seconds. That burn with 1300 condi damage is 2200 per 13/14 seconds. To get this minimal dps you need to put 30 points into a trait line where the traits are all pretty much useless.

I dunno. I will play 0 20 20 10 20 or 0 20 20 0 30 now probably.

Its a bit frustrating that we get these small nerfs to the skilled dps we could use (terror and corrupt boon) just to give us a burning trait which they are now making become useless.

However, with the increased survivability I am happy to not do crazy dps nemore.

I dont think 30 20 0 0 20 will be unviable. But losing over half your burning AND losing greater marks compared to the 30 30 10 0 0 version which dominated before the last proper patch = big nerfs to dps. And that doesnt even include the 17% terror nerf. That is 3 huge nerfs.

So if you still die to necros after this patch then I expect they are just better than you or you have a bad build to face them but one which will shine vs other builds.

Streets.2705:

Fungalfoot.7213:

Lopez.7369:

I think Dhuumfire is still worth it, mostly because nothing else in our trees is really that great.

We do have way too many trash traits. The fact that reanimator still hasn’t been addressed is just baffling.

I am still baffled why PvP necros haven’t cried out that they can’t use their heal/utility/elite for a second or two after Death Shroud is depleted and they are reverted back to normal. Game breaking!

This freqeuntly kills me

Lordrosicky.5813:

Streets.2705:

Fungalfoot.7213:

Lopez.7369:

I think Dhuumfire is still worth it, mostly because nothing else in our trees is really that great.

We do have way too many trash traits. The fact that reanimator still hasn’t been addressed is just baffling.

I am still baffled why PvP necros haven’t cried out that they can’t use their heal/utility/elite for a second or two after Death Shroud is depleted and they are reverted back to normal. Game breaking!

This freqeuntly kills me

I hope the second place team for the tourney has a necro on the team so they can cry foul and claim they lost because of this issue.

I don’t really look at it as 30 points just for burning, though. The condition duration, power, Chill of Death, and even Signet Mastery (good for some builds) are valuable. Chill of Death in particular is amazing.

From that perspective, it’s basically 10 points for a 2.8-second burn. Not bad.

Lopez.7369:

I don’t really look at it as 30 points just for burning, though. The condition duration, power, Chill of Death, and even Signet Mastery (good for some builds) are valuable. Chill of Death in particular is amazing.

From that perspective, it’s basically 10 points for a 2.8-second burn. Not bad.

Streets.2705:

With regards to Dhuumfire changes, you all have to see this.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/necromancer/Necro-Demotivational-Poster/first#post2496873

Yeah, but engineers (Also condition spamming) have access to burning on crits with only 10 trait points, yet we have to spend 30 to get 1/2 the duration.

Lopez.7369:

I don’t really look at it as 30 points just for burning, though. The condition duration, power, Chill of Death, and even Signet Mastery (good for some builds) are valuable. Chill of Death in particular is amazing.

From that perspective, it’s basically 10 points for a 2.8-second burn. Not bad.

All of the minor traits in spite are horrendusly bad. In addition, the signet mastery is only useful if you want to run plague signet which is very situational (good 1v1 vs necro or engi – otherwise terrible). Chill of death is nice but scales with power and often misses/blocked/evaded/etc,etc.

I agree the condi duration is awesome. But only really for the fear. Everything else is likely to be cleansed. Pretty much condi duration was good for the burn and the fear. The burn is now way less impressive with condi duration (you can add like 3/4 second instead of almost 2 seconds by getting some condi duration). All the other conditions are frequently applied and cleansed so condi duration doesnt matter that much. Except fear of course.

I mean getting a guard down became way harder without greater marks and worse terror. Throw in massively reduced burning and it gets even harder.

It isnt just the burning will now do way less damage. It will also cover your conditions for way less time. And it scales so much worse with condition duration which is the line you have to go into to get it.

Like I said the build could still be good. I dunno. But not having greater marks just for the burning which is now way worse seems not so good.

Then again taking greater marks also have some lameness to it due to the utter rubbish in that trait lines minor traits.

Xiao Haishou.3691:

Lopez.7369:

I don’t really look at it as 30 points just for burning, though. The condition duration, power, Chill of Death, and even Signet Mastery (good for some builds) are valuable. Chill of Death in particular is amazing.

From that perspective, it’s basically 10 points for a 2.8-second burn. Not bad.

Streets.2705:

With regards to Dhuumfire changes, you all have to see this.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/necromancer/Necro-Demotivational-Poster/first#post2496873

Yeah, but engineers (Also condition spamming) have access to burning on crits with only 10 trait points, yet we have to spend 30 to get 1/2 the duration.

I don’t really care. Engineer is a completely different class. They can’t sustain nearly as many bleeds as we can, and they don’t have fear or anything like Terror.

Lordrosicky.5813:

Snip.

I like Signet of Spite, too.

Plague Signet is very underrated. I think a lot of people don’t know that it now pulls a condition from a teammate every 3 seconds, down from 10 seconds before. That’s really good for team support.

Besides, the minor traits in Death Magic are even worse than those in Spite.

Lopez.7369:

Lordrosicky.5813:

Snip.

I like Signet of Spite, too.

Plague Signet is very underrated. I think a lot of people don’t know that it now pulls a condition from a teammate every 3 seconds, down from 10 seconds before. That’s really good for team support.

Besides, the minor traits in Death Magic are even worse than those in Spite.

Well the fact it is up for debate is a good thing imo. I dont think required to go for greater marks or for dhumfire. Hell you could go for niether and make a build as good as the others (possibly). Before anything without greater marks, dhumfire and terror was wrong,. And after the last balance patch anything without dhumfire and terror was still wrong.
SO I am glad for this change. CHange is good and keeps the game fresh.

Yup. I like that it’s a genuine debate now.

To be honest, I’m more concerned that the bigger rework they’re planning will ruin it and either make the class overpowered again or weaken it too much. I don’t think they need to do that much more to the class outside of fixing the non-used major traits and crappy minor traits.

Anyways… For the Spectral Armor and Spectral Walk changes, I feel like they were unnecessary as well.

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

However, there is an inherent flaw in Death Shroud. By being a second life bar, it is either too little for multiple enemies, or it is too much for one. There simply cannot be a middle ground on this. (Thanks to BloodRedArachnid for pointing this out so succinctly recently). The end result is that we have a very heavy AoE class that is ironically far better suited to facing one opponent over many. This just doesn’t fit.

Now they have increased the amount of life force gain from Spectral skills, but they have implemented an inherent 1-sec cooldown. This makes us even more tankier for 1v1 situations and squishier for 1vX situations. However, the issue many people have with Death Shroud is that it provides too much HP for 1v1 and not enough survivabilty to compensate for no blocking/evades/stealth/teleport for 1vX.

Lopez.7369:

I like Signet of Spite, too.

I don’t understand Signet of Spite. Never did.
Tooltip: Hey, this thing increases your power!
Player: Awesome!
Tooltip: It also applies a boatload of conditions!
Player: Aweso-, wait, what?
I get the vulnerability/cripple/weakness combo, and I can see the potential as a stack of short-duration cover conditions, but… why Power, of all things?

Yeah, the power on it is useless and weird. I just like the conditions on it. The poison and weakness on it is particularly amazing. It’s also great condition coverage for burst situations.

The Boz.2038:

Lopez.7369:

I like Signet of Spite, too.

I don’t understand Signet of Spite. Never did.
Tooltip: Hey, this thing increases your power!
Player: Awesome!
Tooltip: It also applies a boatload of conditions!
Player: Aweso-, wait, what?
I get the vulnerability/cripple/weakness combo, and I can see the potential as a stack of short-duration cover conditions, but… why Power, of all things?

Yeh it makes no sense which is why it sucks. Also it is really all or nothing. Good on an engi without a stun break who you can chain with a fear then signet of spite. Same on a necro. Bad on anyone like a ranger/thief/guardian who has blocks and dodges galore. Then you miss it. Happens alot due to the cast time.

Allie Murdock.8152:

cymerdown.4103, Thank you so much for the kind words! I’ve been running around like a madwoman the past few days trying to make this happen. Really appreciate the encouragement.

While I’m glad you are working hard to try to balance the numbers, I have 3 comments:

1) While necromancers are perceived as imbalanced, isn’t it rather unfair to necromancers to try to adjust their compositions and builds overnight?

2) Before this most recent patch, I believe 3 seconds of Burning is the right answer. This would give Necromancers 3.9 seconds (3 ticks) of burning down from 5 seconds. 2 seconds of burning on a 10 second cooldown doesn’t smell like a grandmaster trait to me. It sounds like an Adept or Master trait.

3) If there was time to make a last minute adjustment, why was time spent on nerfing Dhuumfire and not fixing Poison so that it actually works? Last time I checked, Poison has no effect most of the time, and THAT seems like a much more game-breaking bug than Dhuumfire.

The Boz.2038:

Lopez.7369:

I like Signet of Spite, too.

I don’t understand Signet of Spite. Never did.
Tooltip: Hey, this thing increases your power!
Player: Awesome!
Tooltip: It also applies a boatload of conditions!
Player: Aweso-, wait, what?
I get the vulnerability/cripple/weakness combo, and I can see the potential as a stack of short-duration cover conditions, but… why Power, of all things?

I do not know the Developers intention, but from personal testing, adding 6-7 points of power is equal to adding 1% crit damage.

Dmg formula – (weapon dmg x power x skill modifier) / Armor = dmg ( x Crit dmg if crit)

at base 50% crit dmg on critical hit, adding 6-7 points more power is the same as adding 1% crit damage.

Streets.2705:

The Boz.2038:

Lopez.7369:

I like Signet of Spite, too.

I don’t understand Signet of Spite. Never did.
Tooltip: Hey, this thing increases your power!
Player: Awesome!
Tooltip: It also applies a boatload of conditions!
Player: Aweso-, wait, what?
I get the vulnerability/cripple/weakness combo, and I can see the potential as a stack of short-duration cover conditions, but… why Power, of all things?

I do not know the Developers intention, but from personal testing, adding 6-7 points of power is equal to adding 1% crit damage.

Dmg formula – (weapon dmg x power x skill modifier) / Armor = dmg ( x Crit dmg if crit)

at base 50% crit dmg on critical hit, adding 6-7 points more power is the same as adding 1% crit damage.

The thing is if you are running staff and scepter then there is no benefit at all from even having 2k power. The skills scale so badly with power that there really is no point. It is a complete waste.

Thedenofsin.7340:

3) If there was time to make a last minute adjustment, why was time spent on nerfing Dhuumfire and not fixing Poison so that it actually works? Last time I checked, Poison has no effect most of the time, and THAT seems like a much more game-breaking bug than Dhuumfire.

Poison was fixed with the July 23 patch.

The part he’s talking about is heal reduction. Are you quite sure that bit is working right?

The Boz.2038:

The part he’s talking about is heal reduction. Are you quite sure that bit is working right?

Yes.

Honestly… I don’t think necros were/are really that overpowered. I think that people running certain overpowered builds that have been as such since the start of the game got their little meta upset and didn’t like it. I felt they were overpowered when they first got buffed sure, but I learned and adapted.

I don’t play a necro by the way, I main a warrior and have a ranger, guard, thief and mesmer. Within the 7 guys I primarily play with (outside of drunken solo queue) double necro teams are actually generally the easiest for us to deal with, while teams running high mobility mesmer/ele combos are usually what we struggle with the most.

As far as necro being easy to play… well, the basics of most classes are easy to grasp. S/D thief and spirit ranger are rediculously easy to get to the point where it takes a much more skilled player to beat you. Mesmer burst is probably the most simplistic in the game. Even mace/shield+gs warrior is now pretty easy to play relatively effectively. When I fight a necro 1v1 I can definitely tell the difference between a good and a bad one, I honestly can’t say the same about spirit ranger or s/d thieves.

Lordrosicky.5813:

Streets.2705:

The Boz.2038:

Lopez.7369:

I like Signet of Spite, too.

I don’t understand Signet of Spite. Never did.
Tooltip: Hey, this thing increases your power!
Player: Awesome!
Tooltip: It also applies a boatload of conditions!
Player: Aweso-, wait, what?
I get the vulnerability/cripple/weakness combo, and I can see the potential as a stack of short-duration cover conditions, but… why Power, of all things?

I do not know the Developers intention, but from personal testing, adding 6-7 points of power is equal to adding 1% crit damage.

Dmg formula – (weapon dmg x power x skill modifier) / Armor = dmg ( x Crit dmg if crit)

at base 50% crit dmg on critical hit, adding 6-7 points more power is the same as adding 1% crit damage.

The thing is if you are running staff and scepter then there is no benefit at all from even having 2k power. The skills scale so badly with power that there really is no point. It is a complete waste.

Depends on your build. If I leaned towards a direct damage build, that 180 is ok, but it’s active perk would be a nice complement to my dmg. For a condition lean, the actives are good and the extra power boosts my direct dmg inbetween condition bursts.

Like punching with a set of brass knuckles and surprise, they are coated with a little poison.

Since you are looking at a better fix for Dhuumfire, let me propose the following:

The talent, Terror, adds a DoT to all Necromancer Fears. This has caused some schizophrenia with Fear. Is it a DoT? A stun? Who knows! Furthermore, using a stun break on Fear stops the DoT.

Why not segregate Fear from the DoT that Terror provides? Make “Terror” a condition, separate from Fear.

Change the talent Terror to: every time you fear an opponent, he is inflicted with Terror, which deals damage. The duration of Terror is set to the initial duration of the fear. Terror’s damage is increased 50% if conditions are already on the target.

Now change Dhuumfire to DhuumTerror:
– Your critical hits have an “X”% chance to inflict 1 second of Terror. 10 second cooldown

This does a couple of things:

1. Gets rid of Burning and all the issues associated with it
2. Segregates Fear, the stun, from Terror, the condition. This allows for a cleaner handling of runes and sigils and what-not.
3. Gives the developers another knob by which they can adjust necromancer damage output.

…randomly applied, low cooldown, potent CC?
No. That is a very, very bad idea.

Just wanted to share with everyone.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/necromancer/Speed-of-Shadows-worthless/first#post2497220

The Boz.2038:

…randomly applied, low cooldown, potent CC?
No. That is a very, very bad idea.

…on crit applied, low cooldown, short duration condi.

Re-read. I’m proposing that Terror be separated from Fear. Replace Burning with the new condi.

I will never, ever understand the logic in nerfing Dhuumfire. This has to be one of the single dumbest things I have ever heard of a balance team doing. You nerf a grandmaster trait because it is “too powerful”(aren’t these supposed to be pretty powerful?) on the Necromancer, but literally, the exact same trait on the Engineer is in the adept line and it is considered okay?

Lol okay aNet

I hope they address the thing that they have so much deathshroud that is just OP, before this it was fair but now they have like 3 bars of health, they should give this class another thing to move and not make them tanks, this is not good aproach because they are becoming really OP by having so much health.

galandor.1059:

I will never, ever understand the logic in nerfing Dhuumfire. This has to be one of the single dumbest things I have ever heard of a balance team doing. You nerf a grandmaster trait because it is “too powerful”(aren’t these supposed to be pretty powerful?) on the Necromancer, but literally, the exact same trait on the Engineer is in the adept line and it is considered okay?

Lol okay aNet

If a coalesced ball of tangible logic pinned you down and sat on your face, you’d still find a way to reach for your keyboard and type something that completely misses the point.

If I gave you two equations:

5x + 5 = 25
2x + 8 = 12

And I told you “x” was 4 in the first equation, but 2 in the second, would you say “It’s 2 in the second? But you said it was 4 in the first, and it’s the exact same variable. Lol okay.”

You wouldn’t because they’re two completely separate instances in completely different equations that just happen to be the same.

So every single person doing this: please stop it. It just makes you look terrible.

Fenrir.5493:

I hope they address the thing that they have so much deathshroud that is just OP, before this it was fair but now they have like 3 bars of health, they should give this class another thing to move and not make them tanks, this is not good aproach because they are becoming really OP by having so much health.

Our Death Shroud eats 4% of that pool every second we are in it unless we spend 10 points in a trait line to make it 3%. at 24k hp that’s a 960 tick. Plus we have a 10 second cooldown before we can use it again at which point our actual HP is vulnerable. We can’t heal our actual HP while in Death Shroud.

And it’s only 2 bars. Actual health plus life force pool that equals 100% of our max health pool.

Edit: Before it was also 2 bars, we just took DOUBLE THE DAMAGE while in death shroud which as stated in patch notes WAS A BUG.

Fenrir.5493:

I hope they address the thing that they have so much deathshroud that is just OP, before this it was fair but now they have like 3 bars of health, they should give this class another thing to move and not make them tanks, this is not good aproach because they are becoming really OP by having so much health.

Actually, all they did was fix a bug.

First, necros took double damage while in death shroud. Second, instead of only giving us 66% of our base health pool, death shroud now gives us 100% of our base health pool. So now all the claims that we have two health bars is correct, as before we had only 2/3rds of what we were originally supposed to have, and we took double damage.

I didn’t feel necromancer damage was nearly as strong in the few matches I did today. The damage felt a lot more manageable both when I took it and dealt it.

Also, the warrior buffs added a decent counter to the condition metagame. But they’re going to have to add more classes capable of that kind of CC so warriors aren’t mandatory. (I’m thinking mesmers and thieves.)

Kravick.4906:

Fenrir.5493:

I hope they address the thing that they have so much deathshroud that is just OP, before this it was fair but now they have like 3 bars of health, they should give this class another thing to move and not make them tanks, this is not good aproach because they are becoming really OP by having so much health.

Actually, all they did was fix a bug.

First, necros took double damage while in death shroud. Second, instead of only giving us 66% of our base health pool, death shroud now gives us 100% of our base health pool. So now all the claims that we have two health bars is correct, as before we had only 2/3rds of what we were originally supposed to have, and we took double damage.

lol im trying to figure out where you guys are getting this much LF pool , with 20 into spite and 20 into death tree (and 30 into curses) i see a champion centaur in hinterlands drop me as fast now as it did before , just now i dont have that survivability vs a spike dmg in pve ( i would post in the pve /class forum but those forums are completely ignored at this point) , so yea there was no noticeable increase to our LF in pve atleast , still no good survivability , this is trying to use it defensively and still get mowed down btw……..this patch was a tremendous joke to Necros…..you ask ppl ingame that arent in the spvp / tpvp stuff and youll hear the same stuff.

Enundr.9305:

Kravick.4906:

Fenrir.5493:

I hope they address the thing that they have so much deathshroud that is just OP, before this it was fair but now they have like 3 bars of health, they should give this class another thing to move and not make them tanks, this is not good aproach because they are becoming really OP by having so much health.

Actually, all they did was fix a bug.

First, necros took double damage while in death shroud. Second, instead of only giving us 66% of our base health pool, death shroud now gives us 100% of our base health pool. So now all the claims that we have two health bars is correct, as before we had only 2/3rds of what we were originally supposed to have, and we took double damage.

lol im trying to figure out where you guys are getting this much LF pool , with 20 into spite and 20 into death tree (and 30 into curses) i see a champion centaur in hinterlands drop me as fast now as it did before , just now i dont have that survivability vs a spike dmg in pve ( i would post in the pve /class forum but those forums are completely ignored at this point) , so yea there was no noticeable increase to our LF in pve atleast , still no good survivability , this is trying to use it defensively and still get mowed down btw……..this patch was a tremendous joke to Necros…..you ask ppl ingame that arent in the spvp / tpvp stuff and youll hear the same stuff.

You can try this trick to figure it out. I suggest doing it in Mists pvp staging area otherwise it’ll cost a bit to do the trait reset.

1. look at your HP, mine is 18372.
2. fill up LF pool to 100%.
3. add 10 points of Soul Reaping. For me, LF pool now says 91%, yes 91%.

10 points of Soul Reaping increases LF pool to 110% max HP. In my case 110% of 18372 is 20209 which 18372, the amount LF pool was at before step 3, is 91%. The Developers haven’t given any numbers out but stated they fixed a bug that caused Necros to take double the damage from direct attacks while in Death Shroud.

I hope the changes are made accordingly, if necros need high DS in pve then let it be, but in pvp having so much high hp is OP.

Fenrir.5493:

I hope the changes are made accordingly, if necros need high DS in pve then let it be, but in pvp having so much high hp is OP.

I don’t really think it is OP. Theres an innate tick every second while in DS stripping off 4%. We can’t stay in DS forever, and once we exit we have a 10 second cooldown before we can pop back in. No use of heal/utility/elites in DS. Our LF generation isn’t all that big, 1 axe attack that generates 12% over 2.25 seconds if it hits fully on a 25 second cooldown. Staff can get 12% if its basic hit tags 3 players on a straight line, if not, 4% per player hit. Otherwise 6% is the average from daggers auto attack.

I think the hit to dhuumire was the only thing the devs could pull off without exacerbating the problems the necro already has. Dhuumfire is a trait that is alright in 1 vs. 1, and has little impact in larger engagements. The place where the necro had the most power to survivability was in 1 vs. 1, where they could more reliably use terror to lock down a player, and where protection and DS were their most potent.

It is really hard to make a fix otherwise, since the necromancer is in an uneasy place from which there seems to be no balance:

Survivability: great when you are by yourself and can build up Life Force, terrible in groups where you are helpless to focus and are vulnerable to CC.

Damage: Good when you are by yourself and the opponent has limited cleanses and stun breakers. Bad in groups where you are easily peeled, there are more cleanses about, and when your offense is reliant on blowing all cooldowns or an incredibly situational epidemic.

Whatever makes a necro weaker in 1 vs. 1 makes them much weaker in groups, and whatever makes them stronger in groups makes them much stronger in 1 vs. 1. No other class suffers from such a fierce dichotomy, mostly because the resources the necro has are all finite, and the skills that other players use in such a situation are all lacking on the necro.

I do have on idea. Someone else on the Necro forum mentioned the idea of having Death Shroud get a scaling damage reduction based on a number of players around. That is fine, however I’d like to go one step simpler.

So, for necromancer survival, I will come up with a very simple suggestion. I do not know if it is good or not, but it potentially will solve some of the problems necromancers have:

Make it so, while in Death Shroud, Necromancers do not take direct damage, period. Then, increase the degen on Death Shroud to be at 20% per second, giving them 5 seconds of DS time at a full bar, before traits are applied. The soul reaping line, instead of increasing the size of the Life Force bar, will instead give a scaling increase to how quickly Life Force is generated (maximum 30% increase).

This will make it so Death Shroud is, in essence, a block. It now has infinite potential mitigation, but a short time limit that a player has to slowly build up throughout the battle. For most tactical uses, DS will be used only for a second or two at most, used while at 50% of Life Force out of necessity for defense. Also note that the necromancer is not immune to unblockable attacks, CC, or conditions. Just direct damage.

The offensive skills of Death Shroud do suffer from this, however in the PVP I do not think this is much of a problem. For the most part, players would just pop in to DS to use Doom then Dark Path, or Tainted Shackles + Life Transfer really quickly, maybe firing off a Life Blast alongside of it. In PVE, players generated Life Force very quickly from basic mobs, and also Life Force gaining is a bit easier to obtain in PVE due to how basic mob movement is. However, I have borrowed some suggestions earlier (It is scary how rarely I have an original thought) to increase the Necromancer’s effectiveness in PVE, and with those changes the lack of a nar endlessly spammable Life Blast shouldn’t be a problem.

The Boz.2038:

jmatb.6307:

Every one of my posts.

Is it possible to report someone for telling lies on a forum?

I was thinking this as well. Almost every post he makes is riddled with misinformation about the necro class and it’s abilities.

For example He thinks the following:

“necros don’t take condition damage in DS”
“Again, you cannot reflect necro range”
“Marks can be spammed on downed players”
“Necros are very strong against burst”
“can stack burns, bleeds, and poison from an autoattack. From 1200 range.”
“You don’t dodge marks”

and well the list goes on all the while telling other people they don’t know what they are talking about.

I think it’s time he took some of his own advice.

jmatb.6307:

this is what happens when ppl copy and paste their builds and things change. they freak out instead of looking for solutions because they didn’t really learn how to play their class in the first place.

The Boz.2038:

Lopez.7369:

I like Signet of Spite, too.

I don’t understand Signet of Spite. Never did.
Tooltip: Hey, this thing increases your power!
Player: Awesome!
Tooltip: It also applies a boatload of conditions!
Player: Aweso-, wait, what?
I get the vulnerability/cripple/weakness combo, and I can see the potential as a stack of short-duration cover conditions, but… why Power, of all things?

Burst signet. It was actually quite nice for power builds with target the weak, that is… when people were still running power builds. Gives at least a 10s window of at least 12% increased damage.

Streets.2705:

Enundr.9305:

Kravick.4906:

Fenrir.5493:

I hope they address the thing that they have so much deathshroud that is just OP, before this it was fair but now they have like 3 bars of health, they should give this class another thing to move and not make them tanks, this is not good aproach because they are becoming really OP by having so much health.

Actually, all they did was fix a bug.

First, necros took double damage while in death shroud. Second, instead of only giving us 66% of our base health pool, death shroud now gives us 100% of our base health pool. So now all the claims that we have two health bars is correct, as before we had only 2/3rds of what we were originally supposed to have, and we took double damage.

lol im trying to figure out where you guys are getting this much LF pool , with 20 into spite and 20 into death tree (and 30 into curses) i see a champion centaur in hinterlands drop me as fast now as it did before , just now i dont have that survivability vs a spike dmg in pve ( i would post in the pve /class forum but those forums are completely ignored at this point) , so yea there was no noticeable increase to our LF in pve atleast , still no good survivability , this is trying to use it defensively and still get mowed down btw……..this patch was a tremendous joke to Necros…..you ask ppl ingame that arent in the spvp / tpvp stuff and youll hear the same stuff.

You can try this trick to figure it out. I suggest doing it in Mists pvp staging area otherwise it’ll cost a bit to do the trait reset.

1. look at your HP, mine is 18372.
2. fill up LF pool to 100%.
3. add 10 points of Soul Reaping. For me, LF pool now says 91%, yes 91%.

10 points of Soul Reaping increases LF pool to 110% max HP. In my case 110% of 18372 is 20209 which 18372, the amount LF pool was at before step 3, is 91%. The Developers haven’t given any numbers out but stated they fixed a bug that caused Necros to take double the damage from direct attacks while in Death Shroud.

It was all percentage based. The same thing then would have done the exact same thing now.

There was also a bug that caused toughness not to work in death shroud, so there was a double whammy there. Toughness now works.

The developers answer just prove what is the situation— Necro in this game are the MINORITY!!! compare to other classes, 30% of player base in Gw2 are guardians 24% war and when ppl from that classes cry about necro and ask nerf for our class what u expect ???
Guardians cry about nerf Corrupted Boon — was nerf after that terror now the fire damage ….were u guys going with this ?? to delete my class and be force to play other class that i don’t like .

Since an ele started this thread and since the result was a nerf i’m very disappointed .

GUYS DON’T LIE TO YOURSELF THEY DON’T WANT ANY KIND OF NECRO IN THE NEW META!
I’m waiting to the point when i will be like i was a free kill in spvp just like all mesmer /thief/ele wants.

I hope will not become the bunkers fight in the new meta since the only thing that killed a bunker was conditions but is this what u ask for .

Pls don’t balance this class with the suggestion from other class players in the future

Blood Red Arachnid.2493:

I think the hit to dhuumire was the only thing the devs could pull off without exacerbating the problems the necro already has. Dhuumfire is a trait that is alright in 1 vs. 1, and has little impact in larger engagements. The place where the necro had the most power to survivability was in 1 vs. 1, where they could more reliably use terror to lock down a player, and where protection and DS were their most potent.

It is really hard to make a fix otherwise, since the necromancer is in an uneasy place from which there seems to be no balance:

Survivability: great when you are by yourself and can build up Life Force, terrible in groups where you are helpless to focus and are vulnerable to CC.

Damage: Good when you are by yourself and the opponent has limited cleanses and stun breakers. Bad in groups where you are easily peeled, there are more cleanses about, and when your offense is reliant on blowing all cooldowns or an incredibly situational epidemic.

Whatever makes a necro weaker in 1 vs. 1 makes them much weaker in groups, and whatever makes them stronger in groups makes them much stronger in 1 vs. 1. No other class suffers from such a fierce dichotomy, mostly because the resources the necro has are all finite, and the skills that other players use in such a situation are all lacking on the necro.

I do have on idea. Someone else on the Necro forum mentioned the idea of having Death Shroud get a scaling damage reduction based on a number of players around. That is fine, however I’d like to go one step simpler.

So, for necromancer survival, I will come up with a very simple suggestion. I do not know if it is good or not, but it potentially will solve some of the problems necromancers have:

Make it so, while in Death Shroud, Necromancers do not take direct damage, period. Then, increase the degen on Death Shroud to be at 20% per second, giving them 5 seconds of DS time at a full bar, before traits are applied. The soul reaping line, instead of increasing the size of the Life Force bar, will instead give a scaling increase to how quickly Life Force is generated (maximum 30% increase).

This will make it so Death Shroud is, in essence, a block. It now has infinite potential mitigation, but a short time limit that a player has to slowly build up throughout the battle. For most tactical uses, DS will be used only for a second or two at most, used while at 50% of Life Force out of necessity for defense. Also note that the necromancer is not immune to unblockable attacks, CC, or conditions. Just direct damage.

The offensive skills of Death Shroud do suffer from this, however in the PVP I do not think this is much of a problem. For the most part, players would just pop in to DS to use Doom then Dark Path, or Tainted Shackles + Life Transfer really quickly, maybe firing off a Life Blast alongside of it. In PVE, players generated Life Force very quickly from basic mobs, and also Life Force gaining is a bit easier to obtain in PVE due to how basic mob movement is. However, I have borrowed some suggestions earlier (It is scary how rarely I have an original thought) to increase the Necromancer’s effectiveness in PVE, and with those changes the lack of a nar endlessly spammable Life Blast shouldn’t be a problem.

I run a Death Shroud build in pve and wvw and this idea would complete shut builds like that down. We have the option, hell a bunch of traits for offensive ds use. I personally have no prob with ds as it is, cept for maybe the overflow to hp (pve wise).

Xiao Haishou.3691:

Anyways… For the Spectral Armor and Spectral Walk changes, I feel like they were unnecessary as well.

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

However, there is an inherent flaw in Death Shroud. By being a second life bar, it is either too little for multiple enemies, or it is too much for one. There simply cannot be a middle ground on this. (Thanks to BloodRedArachnid for pointing this out so succinctly recently). The end result is that we have a very heavy AoE class that is ironically far better suited to facing one opponent over many. This just doesn’t fit.

Now they have increased the amount of life force gain from Spectral skills, but they have implemented an inherent 1-sec cooldown. This makes us even more tankier for 1v1 situations and squishier for 1vX situations. However, the issue many people have with Death Shroud is that it provides too much HP for 1v1 and not enough survivabilty to compensate for no blocking/evades/stealth/teleport for 1vX.

If you want to escape, you can grab Spectral Wall and Spectral Walk. They both help you in legging it. I don’t believe DS is meant to be an escape tool of any sort.

Silly Necro, escapes are for other classes.

Drakula.8405:

The developers answer just prove what is the situation— Necro in this game are the MINORITY!!! compare to other classes, 30% of player base in Gw2 are guardians 24% war and when ppl from that classes cry about necro and ask nerf for our class what u expect ???
Guardians cry about nerf Corrupted Boon — was nerf after that terror now the fire damage ….were u guys going with this ?? to delete my class and be force to play other class that i don’t like .

Since an ele started this thread and since the result was a nerf i’m very disappointed .

GUYS DON’T LIE TO YOURSELF THEY DON’T WANT ANY KIND OF NECRO IN THE NEW META!
I’m waiting to the point when i will be like i was a free kill in spvp just like all mesmer /thief/ele wants.

I hope will not become the bunkers fight in the new meta since the only thing that killed a bunker was conditions but is this what u ask for .

Pls don’t balance this class with the suggestion from other class players in the future

Oh god, another “everyone is against necromancers, it’s a conspiracy” posts…..

Lol at the hotfix on dhuumfire.

Allie: " We saw everyone crying about necro’s after we nerfed them back to nothing again. so we just deminished the dhuumfire skill and kittened up necro’s even more.
cheers!

alot..

Can you please nerf DS and NOT implement mobility, or fix the cooldown bugs, or the ds exit healing bug, maybe not implement a decent stunbreaker, or maybe not add a lower plagueform CD, hey lets not create a decent burst negation? or should we just not fix any of the flawed necro mechanics? how about making sure the necro wont ever stomp in pvp at all and make sure necro’s wont be able to get up when downed while you are at it.. even better lets just take away the downed state on necro’s!

guess the ones who scream and cry the most win in pvp

If so: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qS7nqwGt4-I

really appreciate it.

Dirame.8521:

Xiao Haishou.3691:

Anyways… For the Spectral Armor and Spectral Walk changes, I feel like they were unnecessary as well.

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

However, there is an inherent flaw in Death Shroud. By being a second life bar, it is either too little for multiple enemies, or it is too much for one. There simply cannot be a middle ground on this. (Thanks to BloodRedArachnid for pointing this out so succinctly recently). The end result is that we have a very heavy AoE class that is ironically far better suited to facing one opponent over many. This just doesn’t fit.

Now they have increased the amount of life force gain from Spectral skills, but they have implemented an inherent 1-sec cooldown. This makes us even more tankier for 1v1 situations and squishier for 1vX situations. However, the issue many people have with Death Shroud is that it provides too much HP for 1v1 and not enough survivabilty to compensate for no blocking/evades/stealth/teleport for 1vX.

If you want to escape, you can grab Spectral Wall and Spectral Walk. They both help you in legging it. I don’t believe DS is meant to be an escape tool of any sort.

You’re funny haha.

Mad Queen Malafide.7512:

It would seem pretty obvious to me, that when you want to balance the necromancer… you ask necromancers for advise. And not warriors, guardians, elementalists etc.

Besides, the necromancer forum also has a mix of PVE and WvW necro-players, who might be able to warn you what effects a change might have for the class in other areas of the game.

Might be a good idea to get some advise there, before completely nuking our survivability into oblivion.

This is narrow minded tbh the game has been out for almost a year some have played it longer than that. Your looking at it from a us vs them point of view. You really think everyone in the game has only 1 class slot or whatever is in their sig is the only class they play after 1 year? This is like the guardian the other day who I killed on my mesmer telling me to reroll a “Real class” rofl.

Taking information from everyone is the best you can do if you are polling. It gives you a perspective on each type of player. The players that love the class to their very soul can be just a short sighted as those that don’t play the class. Almost every class forum I go to often has them. I can name a few in warrior forums off top of my head and a few in the ele forums. Alot of the suggestions from the rabid fanboys of each profession always try to make that profession into another most suggestions always come down to X class has this so my Y class should have the same. Which the devs stated is not something they want.