Guild Wars 2

[quote=6049568;Jourdelune.7456But… this was way better than the grinding of WINS that gave us RANK since january 2015. Test season 1 and 2 were bad. League season 1 and 2 as well.
[/quote]

I would agree that the test seasons and leagues aren’t as good. I like the original system. Not sure it was original, but I certainly felt like my ranking was closer to my skill. I could see my skill raise too.

The current system is too much about instant gratification and trying to judge some form of growth over a very short period of time. Or in season 2’s case it is about trying to get people to a certain point quickly based on a rating determine outside of the league.

Jourdelune.7456:

Now… I think that Lead is wrong. It’s not just about win and loose ratio. Glicko gives a rank to a player. The rank is then affected depends on who the players win or loose. More point will get add or substract with the “difference” of MMR between both.

Yes okay.

But here let’s assume.

You are predicted winner in the match.

Will the system punish you for 1 guy who uses this and exact game to do his class achievement in ? Yes it will. It will tell you you are not good enough to carry 4v5.

Will the system punish you for that 1 guy DH who losses his 1v1 to a thief ? And then goes afk in predicted win match, when playing side points is only option in this game ? Yes it will.

How hard can you actually carry ?

And button line how actually playing my smurf high volatile accounts with short term high win ratio is a cake walk.
But when playing my main acc it’s like a hitting my head against a wall ?

shrek.1046:

Jourdelune.7456:

The idea of a PVE or WvW item that can’t be get anywhere else than spvp, is to bring more people into the game mode.

Funny thing is the way the system is set up is turning more people off pvp once they play it. If the reward achievements were a simple grind which takes a long time but is simply a steady accumulation of achievements it would be far better and less rage inducing. Because it is tied to division gain and because of the inconsistency of matchmaking and players constantly backsliding within tiers, psychologically it becomes incredibly wearing.

Consider we’re not even halfway through the year of ranked pvp yet I and a lot of people I know will probably give up pvp after this because the system makes us hate it.

BOLD text: Yes completely. The Rewards should not be TIED to your skill level, but to the games you play.

They want more spvp players. I am totally for that. Make that fun to them. Give them good matchmaking (team mmr vs team mmr) to have closed match. Make a reward track, a quest line, a AA track or whatever else. But don’t ask them to be TOP players to get it.

PVer or WvW don’t want to be TOP. They want their backpack.

i got to prestige 3 last season and im not in prestige 1 this seaosn and i can say diamond was the worst last season, but this one ruby was aweful and i practically skipped to legendary after i hit diamond

Raek.8504:

Jourdelune.7456:

Now… I think that Lead is wrong. It’s not just about win and loose ratio. Glicko gives a rank to a player. The rank is then affected depends on who the players win or loose. More point will get add or substract with the “difference” of MMR between both.

Yes okay.

But here let’s assume.

You are predicted winner in the match.

Will the system punish you for 1 guy who uses this and exact game to do his class achievement in ? Yes it will. It will tell you you are not good enough to carry 4v5.

Will the system punish you for that 1 guy DH who losses his 1v1 to a thief ? And then goes afk in predicted win match, when playing side points is only option in this game ? Yes it will.

How hard can you actually carry ?

And button line how actually playing my smurf high volatile accounts with short term high win ratio is a cake walk.
But when playing my main acc it’s like a hitting my head against a wall ?

There is no “winner prediction”. Its your MMR team vs MMR team. Sometimes you win, sometimes you lose. If you have 50% w/l, you are standing at your rank.

The new league with division of season 1, was having great match but artificial RANKED. The Rank should be like in the old time (2014 or less) not based on wins.

“Will the system punish you for 1 guy who uses this and exact game to do his class achievement in ? Yes it will. It will tell you you are not good enough to carry 4v5.”

BS. I can carry bad players versus good team, if I got 3 competent guy with me. Guaranteed. Because your other team, stack the same. (except at the very top, like 1 to 200 old leaderboard system were you need to stack 5 great guyz— that didn’t play meta because the classes balances was way better than HoT dumbing down trait line and attributes)

For the other questions you got… yeah go Troll away.

Skill based or Grind based ranked system will all get the same problems you described… but… if you reach a good SKILL level of play and are match MMR vs MMR, I assured you the bad DC, bad attitudes or stuff like that are way behind you.

From my experiences, the RANK player of old leaderboard system (top 1000) were good enough to make good matches without all the problems you related.

What you ASK about, the problems you speak about are seen in MMR hell. It existed in 2013, in 2014 and it exist today.

The new league system season 2, is harder for MMR hell than before.

Jourdelune.7456:

Raek.8504:

Jourdelune.7456:

Now… I think that Lead is wrong. It’s not just about win and loose ratio. Glicko gives a rank to a player. The rank is then affected depends on who the players win or loose. More point will get add or substract with the “difference” of MMR between both.

Yes okay.

But here let’s assume.

You are predicted winner in the match.

Will the system punish you for 1 guy who uses this and exact game to do his class achievement in ? Yes it will. It will tell you you are not good enough to carry 4v5.

Will the system punish you for that 1 guy DH who losses his 1v1 to a thief ? And then goes afk in predicted win match, when playing side points is only option in this game ? Yes it will.

How hard can you actually carry ?

And button line how actually playing my smurf high volatile accounts with short term high win ratio is a cake walk.
But when playing my main acc it’s like a hitting my head against a wall ?

There is no “winner prediction”. Its your MMR team vs MMR team. Sometimes you win, sometimes you lose. If you have 50% w/l, you are standing at your rank.

The new league with division of season 1, was having great match but artificial RANKED. The Rank should be like in the old time (2014 or less) not based on wins.

“Will the system punish you for 1 guy who uses this and exact game to do his class achievement in ? Yes it will. It will tell you you are not good enough to carry 4v5.”

BS. I can carry bad players versus good team, if I got 3 competent guy with me. Guaranteed. Because your other team, stack the same. (except at the very top, like 1 to 200 old leaderboard system were you need to stack 5 great guyz— that didn’t play meta because the classes balances was way better than HoT dumbing down trait line and attributes)

For the other questions you got… yeah go Troll away.

Skill based or Grind based ranked system will all get the same problems you described… but… if you reach a good SKILL level of play and are match MMR vs MMR, I assured you the bad DC, bad attitudes or stuff like that are way behind you.

From my experiences, the RANK player of old leaderboard system (top 1000) were good enough to make good matches without all the problems you related.

What you ASK about, the problems you speak about are seen in MMR hell. It existed in 2013, in 2014 and it exist today.

The new league system season 2, is harder for MMR hell than before.

I was mainly talking about current system, and the way it finds team mates for me? How come is it even good. With the above mentioned.

I don’t even Troll. Lol.

I m up for pure MMR based ladder. But how come the MMR is flawless if i m getting those people.

Beginning player→has to play lots of matches to get good→plays lots of matches, gets good→gets to ruby slowly

Beginning player→has to play lots of matches to get good→plays lots of matches, SOMEHOW DOESN’T GET GOOD→gets to ruby slowly

makes me wonder

Jourdelune.7456:

MMR is a fairer representation of your skill than your enemy pip range.

IS MMR Perfect? No.

Is it better than random team? Yes.

I deleted the explanation. In essence, we agree on the point that mmr is not a fair representation of the skill of all players although we have a different reasoning.

I tend to disagree with your random team to a certain extent. A league is a form of ranking. mmr is a form of ranking. What we currently have are both forms of ranking which influence the team-making.

What you suggest (if I got it right) is to make the leagues redundant (as last season). I suggest making the mmr redundant (which means random teams at the beginning) since the league position is visible and observable. However, either solution should solve the problem.

Edit: Forgot to mention that the league then has to be adjusted, e.g. dependend on the previous season you start in division 1,2 or 3, and the introduction of new division(s).

gloflop.3510:

Jourdelune.7456:

MMR is a fairer representation of your skill than your enemy pip range.

IS MMR Perfect? No.

Is it better than random team? Yes.

I deleted the explanation. In essence, we agree on the point that mmr is not a fair representation of the skill of all players although we have a different reasoning.

I tend to disagree with your random team to a certain extent. A league is a form of ranking. mmr is a form of ranking. What we currently have are both forms of ranking which influence the team-making.

What you suggest (if I got it right) is to make the leagues redundant (as last season). I suggest making the mmr redundant (which means random teams at the beginning) since the league position is visible and observable. However, either solution should solve the problem.

Edit: Forgot to mention that the league then has to be adjusted, e.g. dependend on the previous season you start in division 1,2 or 3, and the introduction of new division(s).

What they should do, is scrap leagues entirely, pips and stuff are just fluff.

What i would like to see it’s something like in Leaderboards with rating rather then pips and leagues.

Raek.8504:

Quadox.7834:

Raek.8504:

Quadox.7834:

Anomaly.7612:

Evan Lesh.3295:

Getting ‘stuck’ in ruby is a very important topic regarding how best league should operate. We changed matchmaking to make the ladder more prestigious and so far it has done that. Divisions are aligning with skill level much better than season 1. The product of this change is that the bulk of players who hover around the middle of the mmr curve should stay in sapphire and ruby. Win rate will level out at 50% because there are plentiful players of similar mmr in the same division.

Should average players be able to climb out of the middle divisions by grinding? This removes prestige and can make matchmaking worse within a division, but always allows a sense of progression.

Should average players stay in the middle divisions because that’s where they belong at their skill level? This retains prestige and only improving skill will allow climbing, but rewards and progression stop at some point through the season.

Is there an incentive that could be added to league games for players who have reached their appropriate division and can no longer climb?

This post seriously seems like an inflammatory “git gud” post. Mechanical skill doesn’t matter in a game that’s more about how well you can outrotate the other team, and what comp your team is running. Face it, Evan. Your team has made a system that caters to ESL level players that are premade on TS.

There are SO MANY builds and classes that are just completely irrelevant this season. How does it show skill that I can get on a Necro (that I rarely play) and faceroll a mid fight and win just because Necro’s are just OP teamfighters? This game is really lacking in the “skill” and rewards department and it’s severely pushing vets (like me) away from y(our) game.

Fix the matchmaking. Base the enemy team on MMR as well. Make crossing divisions require a certain MMR. Increase MMR if you win. Decrease it if you lose. Divisions can be lost. Increase MMR more if the team you’re facing has a much bigger MMR and your team should statistically lose. Don’t decrease the MMR if your team was statistically supposed to lose.

I really don’t understand why your team doesn’t get this (not even) novel concept. It’s like you guys have never played ranked games before.

The system you’re trying to put on the majority of players caters to the minority. The system would work if there were more people playing this game, but thanks to your team not being able to balance to save your careers or add a decently rewarding system, or making a PvP lobby worth staying in, you DON’T have the population to make this system work.

Sorry not sorry for seeming angry. I just feel like y’all are so kitten out of touch with your playerbase. I hope for Anet’s sake that things change, and change quick, because there are other games out there, and more coming soon, that will REALLY hurt this one if things aren’t made better. (See: Crowfall, Black Desert Online, Over Watch, Paragon)

How does it cater to the minority, by which i suppose you mean esl players? Pretty much all of them hate it/are dissapointed.

Why ? Que times ? Rewards ? What ? As i heard from few of them, they are pretty satisfied that plebs are in the pit with plebs where they belong.

With the absolute lack of incentive and progression after legend considering the horrible “leaderboard” (if one could call it that) etc. Then there are other problems such as super long queue times after prestige 1 and such, which is likely due to the previous issue in combination with some other factors.

Okay thanks, i still don’t get it. Please explain.

There is WoW which is more competitive and popular then GW 2 pvp will ever be, and there is no rewards attached further you move in the rating (above 2200). Which is gained rather quickly within a season by Pro players.

Basically everyone who plays PvP nowadays need a reward to PvP in the first place ? Only i do see issue with it ?

I’m not talking reward as in gold or some other ingame currency. I am talking incentive. This incentive has to come from a well designed leaderboard (winrates included and more). The leaderboard has to fairly accurately convey who is the best- right now the top players on the leaderboard night as well be farming ranked with a premade. The olf leaderboard was certainly not perfect (it wasn’t even ingame), but even it was bettet than the prestige system.

Sometimes exclusive kitten like titles, skins etc. works too but mainly a solid leaderboard system.

Im with gloflop. Make the mmr redundant and have losing tiers and divisons throughout the whole league.

Currently anything prior to ruby is a tutorial, or ranked play with training wheels, this means the group of players in ruby is way way waaay too large. You’ll have good players struggling to get up, bad players getting stomped and all kinds of horrible things.
If the losing players were instead bumped down a division, found more level headed opponents, they’d slowly move up the ranks again. Giving the whole league a better climb.

Everyone has a plateau. That’s just the way of things. At some point we will stop, unless we challenge ourself and keep learning and really go for it. Now, most people won’t do that. They’ll just throw bodies at a match, thinking if they just push they’ll win, instead of taking a step back and learn.
This means we all have a divison that is suited for us, and that is where we should be. This means we need more divisons, not less. Having the first real divison in the middle is ruining the experience for both good and bad players.

The divison ranking and the rewards from the divison should be seperated. However, Gaining higher divisons should give some exclusive things and not everyone should be able to get there by simply grinding.
Im not saying that because i want cool stuff for myself. I know my plateau, im upper middle tier, always will be, i wont get the cool stuff cuz im not good know. But that doesnt mean im cranky because of it. I understand the prestige of gaining that level of play and it should be rewarded. Same as any pve raider.

Fix the leaderboard is priority #1
Also leagues are NOT reward tracks….
You’re not entitled to progress
This community is toxic ….basically everything is given away for free(think about mini llamas where you had to compete in tournaments to obtain)
If you want get advance"get gud"
It’s harsh but true.
Also the mmr scapegoat is getting really annoying

Evan Lesh.3295:

Getting ‘stuck’ in ruby is a very important topic regarding how best league should operate. We changed matchmaking to make the ladder more prestigious and so far it has done that. Divisions are aligning with skill level much better than season 1. The product of this change is that the bulk of players who hover around the middle of the mmr curve should stay in sapphire and ruby. Win rate will level out at 50% because there are plentiful players of similar mmr in the same division.

Should average players be able to climb out of the middle divisions by grinding? This removes prestige and can make matchmaking worse within a division, but always allows a sense of progression.

Should average players stay in the middle divisions because that’s where they belong at their skill level? This retains prestige and only improving skill will allow climbing, but rewards and progression stop at some point through the season.

Is there an incentive that could be added to league games for players who have reached their appropriate division and can no longer climb?

Mr Lesh, I understand your logic perfectly and I even agree with it. But your system is not good for this game and will end up destroying sPvP for good.

Why? Simple, 5vs5 is way to small for a system like this. In a 5v5 match 1 bad player have a lot of power to define the match even if the other 4 are equally skilled than the enemy team.

In this season I can bet that most of the legend/diamond players grinded their way by doing 3-4 ppl premades. So, how can you use mmr/div as a measure of skill? Do you mean team skill or player skill?

I’ll give u an specific example of how terrible the system is actually working. I made a party with 3 diamonds from a “pvp” guild when I was Saph. The 4 of us were using voice comm. I was surprised about the terrible calls they were making (going into 1v1s fights in an enemy capped node, totally abandoning mid after winning the fight, going far after winning a fight while home was decapped and knowing that enemies were re spawning…..). I have friends in Saph who play a lot better than that and yet they are in losing streaks almost every day…

How can you say that those Diamond guys belong to Diamond? It was clear that the only reason they were diamond is because they did premades with voice.

So, how does that measure skill for you Mr Lesh? What you and your team are seeing in the data tables could be biased by what you want to see and I does not reflect the (in-game reality). I do research in biology and I can tell you that its very easy to be biased when evaluating data even if you don’t realize it.

I might be wrong/biased too but it seems like the current system only measures team skill and not player skill. Thus, forcing us to avoid the soloQ and join premades… Is that what you folks at ANET wanted? If so, then you will destroy sPvP because most players don’t like to be req to premade/voice they will eventually get tired of losing games and go play something else…

You can either bring back SoloQ option or increase team size in order to improve the gaming experience within your current matchmaking system. The success of the sPvP aspect cannot be based ONLY on e-sports. Game-fun experience must be protected/maintained even at the highest levels of competitiveness.

Ruru.1302:

Ithilwen.1529:

@ Evan Lesh

Yes, rewards absolutely need to be grindable.

No, they don’t. The wings should only be accessible to players of the highest caliber.

Then everything outside PvP should be as hard as what you say also. Are you that blind as to see what you are actually suggesting? This is a game not a second job. If this is a second job for you then great, you will be faster then everyone else in obtaining it..but making it almost impossible for 70% (AT LEAST) of the playerbase just because of “some alien reasons” you have is plain dumb.

How about you have 50k AP, and at least 5k hours in the game to even be elegible to the fractal wings?..or hell..even ANY hot content.

Just listen to yourself for even a bit.

The reward for skilled players is that they get something much faster then others do. That’s how it SHOULD be in any decent mmo. For anyone TIME is the most important resource…so you as a so called PRO, achieving something big in a very short amount of time is the best reward you could always have.

Jesus Christ good thing u are not making games.

Rebound.3409:

Ruru.1302:

Ithilwen.1529:

@ Evan Lesh

Yes, rewards absolutely need to be grindable.

No, they don’t. The wings should only be accessible to players of the highest caliber.

Then everything outside PvP should be as hard as what you say also. Are you that blind as to see what you are actually suggesting? This is a game not a second job. If this is a second job for you then great, you will be faster then everyone else in obtaining it..but making it almost impossible for 70% of the playerbase just because of “some alien reasons” you have is plain dumb.

How about you have 50k AP, and at least 5k hours in the game to even be elegible to the fractal wings?..or hell..even ANY hot content.

Just listen to yourself for even a bit.

The reward for skilled players is that they get something much faster then others do. That’s how it SHOULD be in any decent mmo.

Jesus Christ good thing u are not making games.

You realize this is COMPETITIVE PVP and not PVE grinding right?

Not to call you out as its a widely held belief on these forums that they are the same thing.

They are not the same thing!

There are types of content where everyone is NOT supposed to succeed: Raids and Competitive PvP. There are types of content where everyone IS supposed to succeed: Open World, Dungeons, Fractals.

This is healthy for a game, it gives different types of players different types of goals. You are trying to apply some sort of slippery slope argument where it is unwarranted.

Competition and challenge are supposed to make you strive to get better, make you want to work harder, learn more, challenge yourself. What they are not supposed to do is make you say… “Well if I play this for another 100 hours, I can grind out this reward without changing a single thing about what I am doing.” Thinking like that is for PvE content where time is the only factor, not skill, not strategy or tactics.

TL;DR Competitive PvP // Raiding is not for everyone, shouldn’t be for everyone and will never please the part of the player base who is only interested in abnegation.

You do realize PvP is also a game and not real life right? You do realize that when i purchaced the game it included PvP and WvW also and you are not entitled to dictate what i play and what not.

Yes this is PvP..should it be kitten-level pvp like u suggest? Then be prepaired to QQ all over the forums about how alone you are, how ques take 30minutes and how you face the same people over and over again.

What you suggest is to completely remove any form of friendly enviroment for people who don’t necessarily PvP as their main goal. Why is that? Are you really that upset at people who don’t make it their goal in life to get legendary, but instead want to try it out and have fun?

You want competitive? Go make private lobbies..go play in ESL..go do something that actually counts towards THAT. What you are playing is the equivalent of let’s say “Starcraft 2 multiplayer” with ranks like copper, diamond, grandmaster etc". Most can achieve diamond if decent, very few can achieve grandmaster…and THAT’S how it should be. Is that a statement of skill? Yes…most legendaries are actually the good players. Does that mean anything? In esports absolutely not…because players do REAL tournaments that decide their skill.

As far as rewards go, anyone terrible or very good in starcraft can get any achievement and/or skin if they play enough regardless if they REMAIN terrible or very good. Only difference is the TIME it takes to get that thing.

Anyway as i said in other threads..all u eletists who think know better, don’t worry. Next season most will get their wings. Can’t wait for the wave of complainers about population. As far as ANet making the next season with division drop in ruby and whatnot, i honestly think (or hope) they are no that dumb..because that will not only be a nail in the coffin for most players who invested so much time trying to get the wings (that being the only content keeping them ingame really), virtually making it impossible for them to finish it, but it will actually make people quit the game. Them having less players is the worst thing they could think of specially as the game stands now….and for what..for your personal elitist behavior and failure to get past ruby/diamond? I don’t think that’s a good trade-off.

How about YOU get better? The forum is filled with good players that got to legendary solo caring other teams.

Rebound.3409:

You do realize PvP is also a game and not real life right? You do realize that when i purchaced the game it included PvP and WvW also and you are not entitled to dictate what i play and what not.

Yes this is PvP..should it be kitten-level pvp like u suggest? Then be prepaired to QQ all over the forums about how alone you are, how ques take 30minutes and how you face the same people over and over again.

What you suggest is to completely remove any form of friendly enviroment for people who don’t necessarily PvP as their main goal. Why is that? Are you really that upset at people who don’t make it their goal in life to get legendary, but instead want to try it out and have fun?

You want competitive? Go make private lobbies..go play in ESL..go do something that actually counts towards THAT. What you are playing is the equivalent of let’s say “Starcraft 2 multiplayer” with ranks like copper, diamond, grandmaster etc". Most can achieve diamond if decent, very few can achieve grandmaster…and THAT’S how it should be. Is that a statement of skill? Yes…most legendaries are actually the good players. Does that mean anything? In esports absolutely not…because players do REAL tournaments that decide their skill.

As far as rewards go, anyone terrible or very good in starcraft can get any achievement and/or skin if they play enough regardless if they REMAIN terrible or very good. Only difference is the TIME it takes to get that thing.

Anyway as i said in other threads..all u eletists who think know better, don’t worry. Next season most will get their wings. Can’t wait for the wave of complainers about population. As far as ANet making the next season with division drop and whatnot, i honestly think (or hope) they are no that dumb..because that will not only be a nail in the coffin for most players who invested so much time trying to achieve that and virtually making it impossible for them to finish it, but it will actually make people quit the game. Them having less players is the worst thing they could think of specially as the game stands now….and for what..for your personal elitist behavior and failure to get past ruby/diamond? I don’t think that’s a good trade-off.

Put your elitist conspiracy thing away, no one is telling you what you can and cant play.

What is it you want? You can grind to the wings in this league ALREADY, 4 seasons of Sapphire/Ruby will easily get you there and the game helps you get to Ruby without changing a single thing about your playstyle.

Where are you going with this SC2 comparison? We have divisions here that pretty clearly represent skill (if the same person can take account after account to legendary while others fail to get Ruby its clear skill matters). As I highlighted you CAN grind to get the wings. What makes you upset? Is it that you dont have the little symbol next to your name and so you feel cheated?

I can sum up most of the complaints from all those threads in one line:

“When the going gets tough, quit.”

Evan Lesh.3295:

Getting ‘stuck’ in ruby is a very important topic regarding how best league should operate. We changed matchmaking to make the ladder more prestigious and so far it has done that. Divisions are aligning with skill level much better than season 1. The product of this change is that the bulk of players who hover around the middle of the mmr curve should stay in sapphire and ruby. Win rate will level out at 50% because there are plentiful players of similar mmr in the same division.

Should average players be able to climb out of the middle divisions by grinding? This removes prestige and can make matchmaking worse within a division, but always allows a sense of progression.

Should average players stay in the middle divisions because that’s where they belong at their skill level? This retains prestige and only improving skill will allow climbing, but rewards and progression stop at some point through the season.

Is there an incentive that could be added to league games for players who have reached their appropriate division and can no longer climb?

Hi Evan,

I had an idea that maybe each time a player progresses through a tier in ruby they could earn points toward some kind of pip accelleration.

My idea is to build as system that can help the players who have made it to ruby T5/T6 and then lost all their pips to a losing streak.

Maybe after progressing through 20 tiers in ruby (any combination of crossing tiers 1 through 6) a player gets a progress bonus that always gives them 2 pips. Then after crossing 30 tiers a player would earn a progress bonus that always gives them 3 pips. Maybe after awhile players stop losing pips for losses (50 tiers).

This would make ruby a HUGE grind for players who are stuck, and i think by the time someone would make it through they would deserve to be in diamond.

Note: the numbers i proposed are abritrary, it would be hard to say exactly how many tiers would be fair.

I can ask you the same thing. What exactly makes you upset? Seeing all the people who made it to diamond, legendary i can safely say you are not worth those 2 divisons.

So why exactly are you so upset that you want to bring everyone else down just so u have a higher chance to progress? I am curious about your greed.

I can sum your complaint in one line:

“When the going gets tough, bring everyone else down.”

Nocta.5274:

Wow actually has rewards for that. teams that end first gets something special ( a title ), whereas first in leaderboard in GW2 gets nothing for it.
Also getting gladiator in wow arenas is a lot more difficult and represent a lot less people than legendary in GW2. Gladiator is 0.5%; Arenanet doesn’t gives stats but I expect the % of legendary players to be a lot higher than that.

Wow is a terrible example for a working league system. Gladiator titles mean nothing, they are sold for some €, every season there was so much wintrading going on and almost no one got banned for it. I met players on 2,2k in rbg that had achievements with their characters and turned with keyboard.
No, that’s not at all a good “system”

5 pages of pro advices from ‘amazing’ players who can single handedly cary 4 scrubs against 5 competent pvpers.. All these pro’s here, giving you advice on how to ‘git gut’ to advance in ruby are the part of the problem. And the problem is simple – artificially inflated mmr. This is where all the evil comes from and there is no fixing or improving it.

How does season 2 work: you win, your mmr goes up, you get matched with even better players, you win more, your mmr goes up even more. Even if you were carried to ruby by 4 competent pvpers all the way. You can be the worst player who belongs in amber/emerald, but season 2 system thinks you are a ruby quality pvper.

What happens when 50% of pvp population gets to ruby this way(may it be lucky winning streaks or pure grind) you get hundreds of people who have a skill of amber/emerald sitting in ruby waiting for winning streaks and other peeps to carry them even further(I’m pretty positive there are such ‘pvpers’ in diamond too) so when a decent, not a pro, lets say actual ruby skill pvper gets to ruby tier, he gets ‘partners’ of amber/emeralnd quality, because system reads their mmr in the same level as all the other actual ruby skill players and now you have a match were you have to carry 3/4 ambers to win againts 4/5 actual ruby players. This is where your blow out matches happen and this is why they are so frequent. These matches are unwinable and no amount of pro in you will win a match 1/2 vs 4/5.

So please stop giving your bullkitten advice on getting better and striving to be a better player than you are and open your eyes. This system is doomed and there is no way around it. All we can do is finish this season and hope anet will learn from this horrid mistake and improve in season 3.

Good luck and have fun(oh wait..)

Pretty much what Casta said, on top of which i should add, required achievements like “play 3 different classes” really added to this disaster more then ppl give it credit.

Forcing someone to play classes he does not know or even want to play is one of the most terrible ideas i’ve heard. You can hands down imagine at least 8/10 people who did this achievement were terrible in their matches and cost a lot of losses for their team mates, which in turn contributes to this horrific mmr dependent system.

Raek.8504:

What they should do, is scrap leagues entirely, pips and stuff are just fluff.

What i would like to see it’s something like in Leaderboards with rating rather then pips and leagues.

You are right: Another option is to make mmr visible.

Evan Lesh.3295:

Getting ‘stuck’ in ruby is a very important topic regarding how best league should operate. We changed matchmaking to make the ladder more prestigious and so far it has done that. Divisions are aligning with skill level much better than season 1. The product of this change is that the bulk of players who hover around the middle of the mmr curve should stay in sapphire and ruby. Win rate will level out at 50% because there are plentiful players of similar mmr in the same division.

Should average players be able to climb out of the middle divisions by grinding? This removes prestige and can make matchmaking worse within a division, but always allows a sense of progression.

Should average players stay in the middle divisions because that’s where they belong at their skill level? This retains prestige and only improving skill will allow climbing, but rewards and progression stop at some point through the season.

Is there an incentive that could be added to league games for players who have reached their appropriate division and can no longer climb?

Here’s a question; why are the reward system and the division system the same system?

What essentially happens is that you entice people to play PvP to earn rewards, but then when their MMR settles, they can no longer climb, and no longer receive rewards, and it creates a limbo for players where they lack any sort of incentive to play because they can’t climb divisions and are now receiving no reward for continuing to play.

The PvP currency system, which was once Glory and is now tickets or whatever you want to call it, should be able to be earned regardless of the division (aka winning within the division or bracket), so that people have an incentive to continue to play and can continue to receive rewards for playing. They would then use their currency at the existing vendor or a new vendor in transaction for rewards (cosmetics, tonics, crafting materials maybe, weapon/armor boxes, loot bags, etc etc etc).

Then, the divisions will be just for the prestige.

If you want to reward players with additional rewards beyond the prestige of showing of their division, you then create items (cosmetic only, NOT LEGENDARIES, Legendaries are part of GW2s casual audience appeal that are a time investment rather than a skill tier and you can make awesome cosmetic items without calling them legendary) that can only be purchased with the PvP currency and only if you are within a certain division or higher.

Now, you’ll have your MMR and league system working, you’ll have players who still want to play because they aren’t being punished for not being good enough (or not having friends, since we’ll apparently never see solo queue again) and they still have an incentive to do so, and you’ll have your top tier players able to show off their prestigious status and possibly even double reward them with exclusive cosmetic items that are exclusive but not part of the casual incentive (the legendary) for playing.

Casta.5697:

5 pages of pro advices from ‘amazing’ players who can single handedly cary 4 scrubs against 5 competent pvpers.. All these pro’s here, giving you advice on how to ‘git gut’ to advance in ruby are the part of the problem. And the problem is simple – artificially inflated mmr. This is where all the evil comes from and there is no fixing or improving it.

How does season 2 work: you win, your mmr goes up, you get matched with even better players, you win more, your mmr goes up even more. Even if you were carried to ruby by 4 competent pvpers all the way. You can be the worst player who belongs in amber/emerald, but season 2 system thinks you are a ruby quality pvper.

What happens when 50% of pvp population gets to ruby this way(may it be lucky winning streaks or pure grind) you get hundreds of people who have a skill of amber/emerald sitting in ruby waiting for winning streaks and other peeps to carry them even further(I’m pretty positive there are such ‘pvpers’ in diamond too) so when a decent, not a pro, lets say actual ruby skill pvper gets to ruby tier, he gets ‘partners’ of amber/emeralnd quality, because system reads their mmr in the same level as all the other actual ruby skill players and now you have a match were you have to carry 3/4 ambers to win againts 4/5 actual ruby players. This is where your blow out matches happen and this is why they are so frequent. These matches are unwinable and no amount of pro in you will win a match 1/2 vs 4/5.

So please stop giving your bullkitten advice on getting better and striving to be a better player than you are and open your eyes. This system is doomed and there is no way around it. All we can do is finish this season and hope anet will learn from this horrid mistake and improve in season 3.

Good luck and have fun(oh wait..)

This. So kittening much this.

Maybe if I’m not the one saying it ppl will start grasping what I meant. English is, after all, not my native language so…

gloflop.3510:

Raek.8504:

What they should do, is scrap leagues entirely, pips and stuff are just fluff.

What i would like to see it’s something like in Leaderboards with rating rather then pips and leagues.

You are right: Another option is to make mmr visible.

maybe if they are afraid to show mmr due to [reasons] maybe we could have some kind of heat map. just color code us.

red = high high mmr
orange = high mmr
yellow = med
green = low
blue = low low

I find all this talk of “earning” the wings amusing. How does it “earn” anything to be on a team and fed matches you are pre-set to win?

I’ve fought my way through 40+ loss streaks this season and been online almost daily. I’ve worked as hard as anyone and put up with being trampled over by the teams. If anyone has “earned” rewards this season I have.

I find no prestige in Legendary rank and I have very little regard for those players. They didn’t “earn” much of anything from my perspective. They were pre -set to succeed. This wasn’t a level playing field.

Rebound.3409:

Pretty much what Casta said, on top of which i should add, required achievements like “play 3 different classes” really added to this disaster more then ppl give it credit.

Forcing someone to play classes he does not know or even want to play is one of the most terrible ideas i’ve heard. You can hands down imagine at least 8/10 people who did this achievement were terrible in their matches and cost a lot of losses for their team mates, which in turn contributes to this horrific mmr dependent system.

I’m torn about the class achievement. On one hand I agree it is pretty bad. On the other, it is the only achievement that in a small way contributed to me being a better pvp’r. I use to be a single class hero. I can now multi-class well on at least 2 out of 3 of my classes. My third class I only play in amber

We need a system more similar to the slow grow leaderboards before leagues and the test system.

Ithilwen.1529:

I find all this talk of “earning” the wings amusing. How does it “earn” anything to be on a team and fed matches you are pre-set to win?

I’ve fought my way through 40+ loss streaks this season and been online almost daily. I’ve worked as hard as anyone and put up with being trampled over by the teams. If anyone has “earned” rewards this season I have.

I find no prestige in Legendary rank and I have very little regard for those players. They didn’t “earn” much of anything from my perspective. They were pre -set to succeed. This wasn’t a level playing field.

Classic.

“I deserve it because I TRY harder. Players who are above me didn’t earn it! All that matters is how bad you want it!”

Right and you didn’t “earn” anything either, in game or imagined. Keep blaming the system though, thats what winners do!

I ask and expect a level playing field. It makes no sense to win, then criticize the loser, when you where set to win and given a strong advantage going in.

No, I don’t consider that the players who through talent or teaming flew threw the ranks to be any more deserving than I am.

The league/matchmaking system is of season 2 is one of the biggest trash I have seen in GW2 so far.

This is why players are angry. The playing field doesn’t even resemble level. Nor will it. There isn’t enough time in the season for the even match stage to emerge.

-edit-

Two major issues;

Teams

High level players trolling back through the divisions because they can’t get matches.

Ithilwen.1529:

This is why players are angry. The playing field doesn’t even resemble level. Nor will it. There isn’t enough time in the season for the even match stage to emerge.

To be fair, if they wanted a more skill based ladder rather than a reward track it’s ok to not have a level playing field. Ideally you would stop advancing when you would have reached your current position assuming the metrics are all fine of course.

What is sad though is that some ppl have clearly benefited from advantageous conditions while others the opposite.

Also, the way ANET has promoted the event is in large part to blame since it lead to expectations by ppl they want to get into pvp that are conflicting with what these ppl were hoping for Sure it is still true that you will be able to have the possibility to get the backpack but they might have warned some ppl what they were in for. For a lot of players loosing eternally is not fun and I’m not sure they will want to put up with a season 3 like this.

Like I said before, ANET has a choice to make about who is their target audience for this.

Cyanon.1928:

Evan Lesh.3295:

Getting ‘stuck’ in ruby is a very important topic regarding how best league should operate. We changed matchmaking to make the ladder more prestigious and so far it has done that. Divisions are aligning with skill level much better than season 1. The product of this change is that the bulk of players who hover around the middle of the mmr curve should stay in sapphire and ruby. Win rate will level out at 50% because there are plentiful players of similar mmr in the same division.

Should average players be able to climb out of the middle divisions by grinding? This removes prestige and can make matchmaking worse within a division, but always allows a sense of progression.

Should average players stay in the middle divisions because that’s where they belong at their skill level? This retains prestige and only improving skill will allow climbing, but rewards and progression stop at some point through the season.

Is there an incentive that could be added to league games for players who have reached their appropriate division and can no longer climb?

Mr Lesh, I understand your logic perfectly and I even agree with it. But your system is not good for this game and will end up destroying sPvP for good.

Why? Simple, 5vs5 is way to small for a system like this. In a 5v5 match 1 bad player have a lot of power to define the match even if the other 4 are equally skilled than the enemy team.

In this season I can bet that most of the legend/diamond players grinded their way by doing 3-4 ppl premades. So, how can you use mmr/div as a measure of skill? Do you mean team skill or player skill?

I’ll give u an specific example of how terrible the system is actually working. I made a party with 3 diamonds from a “pvp” guild when I was Saph. The 4 of us were using voice comm. I was surprised about the terrible calls they were making (going into 1v1s fights in an enemy capped node, totally abandoning mid after winning the fight, going far after winning a fight while home was decapped and knowing that enemies were re spawning…..). I have friends in Saph who play a lot better than that and yet they are in losing streaks almost every day…

How can you say that those Diamond guys belong to Diamond? It was clear that the only reason they were diamond is because they did premades with voice.

So, how does that measure skill for you Mr Lesh? What you and your team are seeing in the data tables could be biased by what you want to see and I does not reflect the (in-game reality). I do research in biology and I can tell you that its very easy to be biased when evaluating data even if you don’t realize it.

I might be wrong/biased too but it seems like the current system only measures team skill and not player skill. Thus, forcing us to avoid the soloQ and join premades… Is that what you folks at ANET wanted? If so, then you will destroy sPvP because most players don’t like to be req to premade/voice they will eventually get tired of losing games and go play something else…

You can either bring back SoloQ option or increase team size in order to improve the gaming experience within your current matchmaking system. The success of the sPvP aspect cannot be based ONLY on e-sports. Game-fun experience must be protected/maintained even at the highest levels of competitiveness.

I have to be honest, this post by Evan just killed any expectations I had for sPvP experience to get better… They seem to think things are working as intended…

Incredible stuff happened today, you wanna know? I got to T4 Ruby and then BAAM! I lost 10 times in a row, I’m not joking, I switched my class depending on team compositions, I tried my hardest to progress and I still lost! Now I’m back at T2, isn’t this great?

Explain me now how this is supposed to be a system that works, I never lost so many times in a row for almost 3 years now…

Evan Lesh.3295:

Getting ‘stuck’ in ruby is a very important topic regarding how best league should operate. We changed matchmaking to make the ladder more prestigious and so far it has done that. Divisions are aligning with skill level much better than season 1. The product of this change is that the bulk of players who hover around the middle of the mmr curve should stay in sapphire and ruby. Win rate will level out at 50% because there are plentiful players of similar mmr in the same division.

Should average players be able to climb out of the middle divisions by grinding? This removes prestige and can make matchmaking worse within a division, but always allows a sense of progression.

Should average players stay in the middle divisions because that’s where they belong at their skill level? This retains prestige and only improving skill will allow climbing, but rewards and progression stop at some point through the season.

Is there an incentive that could be added to league games for players who have reached their appropriate division and can no longer climb?

That would be true IF the matchmaking (making teams) would work.
I’ve had so many blowout matches (matches with over 250 point difference) I’m quite sure your matchmaking has flaws.

I have a feeling the opponents are either much lower MMR or the opposite; much higher.

I do have matches with normal scores but alot are blowouts.
It’s like your matchmaking is focusing more on div/pips than anything else, really.

Which should not be the case.

Evan Lesh.3295:

Getting ‘stuck’ in ruby is a very important topic regarding how best league should operate. We changed matchmaking to make the ladder more prestigious and so far it has done that. Divisions are aligning with skill level much better than season 1. The product of this change is that the bulk of players who hover around the middle of the mmr curve should stay in sapphire and ruby. Win rate will level out at 50% because there are plentiful players of similar mmr in the same division.

Should average players be able to climb out of the middle divisions by grinding? This removes prestige and can make matchmaking worse within a division, but always allows a sense of progression.

Should average players stay in the middle divisions because that’s where they belong at their skill level? This retains prestige and only improving skill will allow climbing, but rewards and progression stop at some point through the season.

Is there an incentive that could be added to league games for players who have reached their appropriate division and can no longer climb?

It makes it sound like you actually believe the matchmaking and league is working as intended. I’m scared for the future of PvP if you truly believe that.

1. Blowout matches. Watch the video of the guy who posted every match on the way to legend. I’d say 80% of the matches were blowouts, win or lose. That said, I understand that the inability of the balance team to do their job makes matchmaking difficult.
2. Ruby player quality. A lot of the matches have LOWER quality players in Ruby than in the lower divisions. That makes no sense.

Yes, it is fine if people reach a peak at some point in the season. That is perfectly acceptable as long as they receive good and even matches the rest of the way. That is not happening and is a big reason why the current season is a failure.

There are no limits, only plateaus. You must not stay there, you must go beyond them. Is it the matchmaking keeping you in Ruby or are you keeping yourself there?

The matchmaking. Well, more the “gain a pip, lose a pip” mechanic, really. Player skill is really a tertiary element of this system. Unless you’re somehow good enough to carry a team (and most players who insist that they are, are not), player skill really plays little part in the outcome of matches.

There is no belief in bettering yourself, instead of looking inward at why you desire things and what you are willing to do to attain them, you come to the forums to cry for changes to the system.

Yes, that. Let’s do that.

Evan Lesh.3295:

Getting ‘stuck’ in ruby is a very important topic regarding how best league should operate. We changed matchmaking to make the ladder more prestigious and so far it has done that. Divisions are aligning with skill level much better than season 1. The product of this change is that the bulk of players who hover around the middle of the mmr curve should stay in sapphire and ruby. Win rate will level out at 50% because there are plentiful players of similar mmr in the same division.

Should average players be able to climb out of the middle divisions by grinding? This removes prestige and can make matchmaking worse within a division, but always allows a sense of progression.

Should average players stay in the middle divisions because that’s where they belong at their skill level? This retains prestige and only improving skill will allow climbing, but rewards and progression stop at some point through the season.

Is there an incentive that could be added to league games for players who have reached their appropriate division and can no longer climb?

What about those of us who don’t switch classes and fight the topple-of-balance with each patch? ATM, more than 1 class can carry, but noone doubts the supremacy of a well handled reaper. For that matter: DH, Scrapper, support Druid, healing ele. Stick a dps thief on the hip of any of these, OP.

Warriors, with very specific builds, are viable. Anyone not a sniping warrior, the struggle looks real from the outside.

I’m not screaming for balance amongst classes, or an MMR nerf. If you want to be lol, or dota, do it. Seperate spvp from the ‘normal’ game. More. Dictate boundaries, builds, compositions for competitive play. Let the outlier be that guy. Make ppl master the set of skills at hand, in their chosen class, instead of embracing the meta hopper build.

Evan Lesh.3295:

Getting ‘stuck’ in ruby is a very important topic regarding how best league should operate. We changed matchmaking to make the ladder more prestigious and so far it has done that. Divisions are aligning with skill level much better than season 1. The product of this change is that the bulk of players who hover around the middle of the mmr curve should stay in sapphire and ruby. Win rate will level out at 50% because there are plentiful players of similar mmr in the same division.

Should average players be able to climb out of the middle divisions by grinding? This removes prestige and can make matchmaking worse within a division, but always allows a sense of progression.

Should average players stay in the middle divisions because that’s where they belong at their skill level? This retains prestige and only improving skill will allow climbing, but rewards and progression stop at some point through the season.

Is there an incentive that could be added to league games for players who have reached their appropriate division and can no longer climb?

The only incentive I care about is being able to win games and progress. Without progression of any meaningful sort there is no reason for me to continue. I don’t want to be someone else’s punching back for weeks because some algorithm is determined to keep me down in my “place”. No one should ever feel like they’re stuck.

I have no delusions that I’d ever get past Ruby, nor do I really care to but why should anyone bother playing if there’s no hope of progressing beyond where the matchmaking decides is where you belong?

jcbroe.4329:

Evan Lesh.3295:

Getting ‘stuck’ in ruby is a very important topic regarding how best league should operate. We changed matchmaking to make the ladder more prestigious and so far it has done that. Divisions are aligning with skill level much better than season 1. The product of this change is that the bulk of players who hover around the middle of the mmr curve should stay in sapphire and ruby. Win rate will level out at 50% because there are plentiful players of similar mmr in the same division.

Should average players be able to climb out of the middle divisions by grinding? This removes prestige and can make matchmaking worse within a division, but always allows a sense of progression.

Should average players stay in the middle divisions because that’s where they belong at their skill level? This retains prestige and only improving skill will allow climbing, but rewards and progression stop at some point through the season.

Is there an incentive that could be added to league games for players who have reached their appropriate division and can no longer climb?

Here’s a question; why are the reward system and the division system the same system?

What essentially happens is that you entice people to play PvP to earn rewards, but then when their MMR settles, they can no longer climb, and no longer receive rewards, and it creates a limbo for players where they lack any sort of incentive to play because they can’t climb divisions and are now receiving no reward for continuing to play.

The PvP currency system, which was once Glory and is now tickets or whatever you want to call it, should be able to be earned regardless of the division (aka winning within the division or bracket), so that people have an incentive to continue to play and can continue to receive rewards for playing. They would then use their currency at the existing vendor or a new vendor in transaction for rewards (cosmetics, tonics, crafting materials maybe, weapon/armor boxes, loot bags, etc etc etc).

Then, the divisions will be just for the prestige.

If you want to reward players with additional rewards beyond the prestige of showing of their division, you then create items (cosmetic only, NOT LEGENDARIES, Legendaries are part of GW2s casual audience appeal that are a time investment rather than a skill tier and you can make awesome cosmetic items without calling them legendary) that can only be purchased with the PvP currency and only if you are within a certain division or higher.

Now, you’ll have your MMR and league system working, you’ll have players who still want to play because they aren’t being punished for not being good enough (or not having friends, since we’ll apparently never see solo queue again) and they still have an incentive to do so, and you’ll have your top tier players able to show off their prestigious status and possibly even double reward them with exclusive cosmetic items that are exclusive but not part of the casual incentive (the legendary) for playing.

ANet got rid of solo queue, they want PvP to be an ESport. So to play PvP in a competitive way you need a team. I believe ANet has made the system the way it is so it “forces” people to group up to progress. Now I’m not saying it’s impossible to progress with out grouping up. But the odds would be in your favor if you where to make a team that runs the meta. You then have a better chance of having a team composition that you out play a random one of Solo/duo/trio players.

morrolan.9608:

Amurond.4590:

I don’t know why, but people so far in Ruby seem to be generally worse at PvP than the people in sapphire were. Holy kitten some of the garbage I have seen. I am not a pro by any means but by this point I’d kind of expect people to have some kind of clue about rotating and not doing stupid kitten.

So garbage quality players have been carried yet again but there are still good players stuck in sapphire and emerald because they keep getting poor quality teammates

This. You have no kittening idea, though, maybe you do? I am getting ready to just make a premade and stick with that for the rest of the season.

Evan Lesh.3295:

Getting ‘stuck’ in ruby is a very important topic regarding how best league should operate. We changed matchmaking to make the ladder more prestigious and so far it has done that. Divisions are aligning with skill level much better than season 1. The product of this change is that the bulk of players who hover around the middle of the mmr curve should stay in sapphire and ruby. Win rate will level out at 50% because there are plentiful players of similar mmr in the same division.

Should average players be able to climb out of the middle divisions by grinding? This removes prestige and can make matchmaking worse within a division, but always allows a sense of progression.

Should average players stay in the middle divisions because that’s where they belong at their skill level? This retains prestige and only improving skill will allow climbing, but rewards and progression stop at some point through the season.

Is there an incentive that could be added to league games for players who have reached their appropriate division and can no longer climb?

It’s like this Evan guy doesn’t even play his own game.

all i can say since ruby i had fights which i get win by huge difference and right after its like the system matchmaking me with so low lvl players to put me in 50% win ratio
like the team say close mid and 1 thief going far versus necro and died hard there. and after going there again when our team got full 3 cap so he think he can handle it again

it like every time i get a thief i know i already lost (sry thieves i am sure some of you are pretty good as i have counter some of you)
so till ruby i had like fast 90% win chance and now constantly dropping to 50% to force me stay in ruby
so my solution is to do 1 game and win and stop playing the game for the day. i need 6 more wins to diamond .
btw someone would carry me to it?

Unfortunately.5940:

Evan Lesh.3295:

Getting ‘stuck’ in ruby is a very important topic regarding how best league should operate. We changed matchmaking to make the ladder more prestigious and so far it has done that. Divisions are aligning with skill level much better than season 1. The product of this change is that the bulk of players who hover around the middle of the mmr curve should stay in sapphire and ruby. Win rate will level out at 50% because there are plentiful players of similar mmr in the same division.

Should average players be able to climb out of the middle divisions by grinding? This removes prestige and can make matchmaking worse within a division, but always allows a sense of progression.

Should average players stay in the middle divisions because that’s where they belong at their skill level? This retains prestige and only improving skill will allow climbing, but rewards and progression stop at some point through the season.

Is there an incentive that could be added to league games for players who have reached their appropriate division and can no longer climb?

It’s like this Evan guy doesn’t even play his own game.

I disagree Unfortunately.5940

In fact, I agree with what Evan just said. Average players don’t belong in higher league – but these players don’t have progression when they plateau at Ruby thus making their League experience unfun.

As far as, an incentive to players reaching the top of their game in a certain division, that’s an unfortunate innacuracy at the moment. A 400-500 close win will de-mmr a player and make him appear as “bad” even though the game could literally go either way.

A player on a team who instant dies because he’s bad or >insert counter comp< means that certain player is at a huge disadvantage; liability. An example is Guardian vs Druid or Engi or Rev. On the right team, sure, Guard can very well succeed. But on the wrong team composition, Guard simply can’t.

Point being, there’s too many inaccuracies to player faults, team composition faults, and overall a 0 measurement in individual player contribution. There’s simply is 0 measurement.

Come on ANet, you guys call this “match making”? I just got back into a pvp break because Sapphire to Ruby is cancer/aids. Come on guys, those emerald fellas can’t lose a pip and they won’t even care losing a match. I know you guys can do better, I’m down on my knees…. please don’t do this next season. PvP gave me more stress than fun, I’m trying my hardest to win.

Even the people in legendary are not enjoying the new ranked, they have 30 mins plus wait times just to get steam rolled them selves, they then roll an alt account and go through ranked again, pushing down potential legendary people and filling the top tiers with alts.

They have failed with this ranked and more and more people are just quitting.

I am stuck in div 2 due to my first matches being against guild teams when I soloQd so it has been an uphill struggle, an uphill struggle where I am not rewarded for trying hard which I have to do to barely scrape by with a win or trying hard and still getting steamrolled.

Oh btw, PvP is the only thing that keeps me on playing this game. I know you guys won’t even care to lose a player but do me a favor, at least step it up a notch and give the future players something to be stoked on. I’m slowly losing every reason to play this game, let’s say raids became so repetitive, WvW is destroyed and now PvP.. I don’t know anymore, I’m doing my hardest to earn every pip, I’ve been forced to play different classes that I don’t enjoy playing just for the sake of winning. Well it’s just my two cents, I still wish you guys more power.

Just tie division to MMR like any other respectable game. Not sure why the GW2 PvP team is so averse to this.

EVAN LESH.

If every game you played all of the players on your team and your enemy team were of equal skill level which they are not and you then climbed a division That would indicate your skill level.

This isn’t at all how your MMR system works right now. Lets be real here the only way you could judge a solo players skill level is by points, but currently your point system doesn’t accurately reflect a players skill and it has nothing to do with player MMR.

The only thing you have to go by to judge a players skill is did this team win or did this team lose. But if teams are completely random and you rig the teams anyway by letting what you consider higher MMR teams have easy wins how can you with a strait face even say your math reflects player skill.

Sure super bad players will never progress and thats fine but you often group super bad players with good ones and you make the good ones lose.