Guild Wars 2

glaphen.5230:

The build was posted 2 days ago and practically the same build was posted 4 days ago. Bad build is bad no matter how you put it so don’t put your opinions on balance please. Power scales on 3 stats and your missing 2 of them and you cannot be in Death Shroud forever. You also do bad damage outside of it when that should do far more damage. Condition damage scales with only condition damage so the toughness and vitality are fine. You can have the same traits with berserker even if they aren’t that good too. Necromancer shouldn’t even be targeted first in a group fight with Lich Form and you should be in Lich Form for the start of that with a power build. Either way you would have more survivability and damage with a condition build too for both solo and group. But again use the build you want but no opinions on balance if it isn’t one the best.

Again, you have NO experience of what WvW is like for Necromancer. Sure you MIGHT play other classes in WvW but this isn’t about them. Come back when you have played WvW and not the terrible, terrible modes S/TPvP.

“bad damage outside of ds” I wouldnt personally call 2k Dagger Autos and 5k Ghastly Claws bad myself, could the be better? Of course, they could also be worse. With the higher Vitality and Toughness comes bigger Life Force pool and taking more damage in DS along with the 50% trait that reduces loss in DS, doesnt sound like a lot but it helps i can easily spend 75%+ of a fight inside DS decent ways to regain it as well with Dagger autos, Ghastly Claws and Locust Swarm giving nice amounts as well as Spectral Armor as well.

Plus it is better for DeathShroud to run out on its own rather than exit it so you dont get the 7-10second cool down. As i have stated MANY times before – Not everyone wants to play Condition builds.

You DONT have to be inside Lich from the start of a fight. Maybe in S/TPvP but WvW isnt the same. I do some times Lich, when i know i am going to crossing water and my minion will die i swap it out, i rarely need it though and in solo play its just laughable using it.

It all depends on the situation, while they might have high toughness, doesnt mean they will have high vitality. Most (and see the word most not implying that all of them do) Condition builds ignore Soul Reaping to a large extent.

roamzero.9486:

Ive never seen anyone cry how Rangers are OP in WvW. Nor have I seen people cry about Eles since they were nerfed to oblivion.

I hate rangers with their “I have to use it no matter what” longbow knockback. You’ll have a supervisor in your caltrops/AoE field and an ally ranger will come knock them out because Knockback. Nerf friendly rangers pls.

Again, you have NO experience of what WvW is like for Warrior. Sure you MIGHT play other classes in WvW but this isn’t about them. Come back when you have played WvW and not the terrible, terrible modes S/TPvP.

If you are able to stay in Death Shroud most of the fight it is because the enemys are not focusing you. If they are not focusing you then your damage would be far better if you were in berserker gear. Soul Reaping line is equal to 18% of your health scaling as extra Death Shroud health. Double fear duration plus Spectral Wall with far more weakness application and snares=far more survivability. With 23k health the Soul Reaping line gives a whole 4140 health extra compared to someone without it. but when you would have 36k without it that isn’t much.

There’s probably no format in this game where we are getting close to balance but WvW is certainly the place where we are farthest away from it. Not even PvE (!) has trash like Guard Leech, Applied Fortitude or Bloodlust that completely destroy the little class balance we have.

Here is why dark path has issues, same as most slow moving projectiles. When moving in a straight line projectiles move 1200 units from pont of cast so they can be easily out ran. This is less noticeable in spvp where smaller maps limit movement and more noticeable in wvw where people have the room to run.

just made a pu mesmer in spvp using Riot mesmer’s build. holy crap it’s way way too easy mode.

it took me 10 min to learn to beat any class except the same pu mesmer because im not used to the class yet.

with 3 – 4 stealth and 2 of them have dam short CD to keep kiting forever …

^^ Yeah, Mesmer is such a good class in WvW.

I killed 4 people a few weeks back, just throwing up clones and stealthing until i had them all down…. 2 were up-levels, but i was still shocked at how well the Mesmer does 1vX

glaphen.5230:

The build was posted 2 days ago and practically the same build was posted 4 days ago. Bad build is bad no matter how you put it so don’t put your opinions on balance please. Power scales on 3 stats and your missing 2 of them and you cannot be in Death Shroud forever. You also do bad damage outside of it when that should do far more damage. Condition damage scales with only condition damage so the toughness and vitality are fine. You can have the same traits with berserker even if they aren’t that good too. Necromancer shouldn’t even be targeted first in a group fight with Lich Form and you should be in Lich Form for the start of that with a power build. Either way you would have more survivability and damage with a condition build too for both solo and group. But again use the build you want but no opinions on balance if it isn’t one the best.

I’ll let you in on a secret. DS uptime when traited and played correctly can be huge. If I use DS I’ll be in it until I run out, in which case I pop 2 spec skills heal and hop right back in and press 4 if its off CD. Meanwhile collecting might and stacking vul. I’m very sure you never tried to use lich against moving targets so we will stop this here.

Samhayn.2385:

Here is why dark path has issues, same as most slow moving projectiles. When moving in a straight line projectiles move 1200 units from pont of cast so they can be easily out ran. This is less noticeable in spvp where smaller maps limit movement and more noticeable in wvw where people have the room to run.

This ^^^

borrok.9267:

I’ll let you in on a secret. DS uptime when traited and played correctly can be huge. If I use DS I’ll be in it until I run out, in which case I pop 2 spec skills heal and hop right back in and press 4 if its off CD. Meanwhile collecting might and stacking vul. I’m very sure you never tried to use lich against moving targets so we will stop this here.

Exactly. When fully traited and not even taking them all. I just take 30 into Soul Reaping with Unyelding Blast and Vital Persistence that one alone helps us SO much now that it has been buffed.

Stay in it until its run out, thus no cool down by that time i will have Ghastly Claws back up. Pop that a couple of times combined with Locust Swarm, get another Ghastly Claws out and normally back up to 50% and then jump back in, if in a group fight i wait until i am a bit closer to the centre of the action and then pop Life Transfer which actually deals some very nice damage though think the Life Force gained could be buffed a little and then i am ready to sit inside it for another while, unless i get focused of course.

The only time i find Lich good is during big Zerg fights, where i know that i will get some boons, healing and such and i just throw the marks down in the centre and go all out with Deathly Claws until marks are ready again IF you time it perfect then you can get 2 Mark of Horrors out Chilling wind is solid as well.

During small group or solo it is simply useless, it is far to slow both in movement and skill use to make it that much of a threat to anyone.

Samhayn.2385:

Here is why dark path has issues, same as most slow moving projectiles. When moving in a straight line projectiles move 1200 units from pont of cast so they can be easily out ran. This is less noticeable in spvp where smaller maps limit movement and more noticeable in wvw where people have the room to run.

Don’t forget terrain, most of it in S/TPvP is on balanced ground sure a few bumpy areas in certain parts of the map but mostly its flat. Pretty much EVERYWHERE in WvW has hilly bits and dips that while they dont seem like much to us players they affect this skill and others A LOT.

Avigrus.2871:

^^ Yeah, Mesmer is such a good class in WvW.

I killed 4 people a few weeks back, just throwing up clones and stealthing until i had them all down…. 2 were up-levels, but i was still shocked at how well the Mesmer does 1vX

Then they were either upleveled or just very bad. While Mesmer is very strong in duels they don’t have the defense to cope with getting focused by people that know how to play the game.

and i highly doubt you were “stealthing until i had them all down” we have access to a few stealths but this seems to me that either they were upleveled or that they had no cool downs left if they died in seconds. At the VERY most you have 17seconds of stealth and thats if you take PU (which why wouldn’t you) but you would also be forced into taking a VERY rubbish weapon in the Torch with the only good skill being the Stealth and then 2 of your 3 Utilities being Stealth on 30seconds (Decoy) and 90seconds (Veil) cool downs and 90second cool down Mass Invis

It is impossible for you to be in Death Shroud for the entire fight unless the enemy isn’t even paying attention to you and if that is happening berserker gear would make you do far more damage. Also as I said before no one without teleports or stealth can escape from a proper Lich Form.

they don’t have the defense to cope with getting focused by people that know how to play the game.
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Blurred_Frenzy
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Phase_Retreat
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Distortion
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Stealth
Pretty much all builds have 3 of those at least and anyone focusing a Mesmer first in a fight deserves to lose usually.

glaphen.5230:

they don’t have the defense to cope with getting focused by people that know how to play the game.
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Blurred_Frenzy
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Phase_Retreat
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Distortion
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Stealth
Pretty much all builds have 3 of those at least and anyone focusing a Mesmer first in a fight deserves to lose usually.

Please Blurred frenzy is weak, Yeah it does solid damage but you dont really use it as a defense. Phase Retreat is solid but again nothing major you can fire projectiles and such that will destroy the clone that is created and still hit the Mesmer. Distortion is on a VERY long cool down and requires destroying all clones and illusions, 3 seconds isnt that long either.

Stealth is the BEST defense a Mesmer has, especially combined with PU but again you would have to combine several skills together for it to be the best defense, such as Blinking away or using Phase Retreat. You are still able to be damaged via channeling skills if you used it before they went stealth, AoE damages them as well and they dont have an y 25% signet or anything and unlike Thief no 50% movement speed increase in stealth.

So again, they dont have the best defense against getting focused by people that know what they are doing. Chills, Cripple, Stuns, Immbo are VERY strong against a class that lacks condition removal without taking long cool down skills or high cost traits. Anyone that really knows a Mesmer knows what to look out for and knows how to counter it.

“anyone focusing a Mesmer first in a fight deserves to lose usually. "

This coming from your S/TPvP gameplay? As it is much better to take down Mesmers sooner rather than later specially if they are Phantasm builds with Greatswords, they can do some serious damage, long with cripples as well having a very solid Knockback.

So in your opinion in WvW – what classes do you focus first? Ignore the possible builds they have. You see a group of 8 with each of them playing 1 of the classes. Who do you target and try to burst down first?

ArmageddonAsh.6430:

glaphen.5230:

they don’t have the defense to cope with getting focused by people that know how to play the game.
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Blurred_Frenzy
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Phase_Retreat
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Distortion
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Stealth
Pretty much all builds have 3 of those at least and anyone focusing a Mesmer first in a fight deserves to lose usually.

Please Blurred frenzy is weak, Yeah it does solid damage but you dont really use it as a defense. Phase Retreat is solid but again nothing major you can fire projectiles and such that will destroy the clone that is created and still hit the Mesmer. Distortion is on a VERY long cool down and requires destroying all clones and illusions, 3 seconds isnt that long either.

Stealth is the BEST defense a Mesmer has, especially combined with PU but again you would have to combine several skills together for it to be the best defense, such as Blinking away or using Phase Retreat. You are still able to be damaged via channeling skills if you used it before they went stealth, AoE damages them as well and they dont have an y 25% signet or anything and unlike Thief no 50% movement speed increase in stealth.

So again, they dont have the best defense against getting focused by people that know what they are doing. Chills, Cripple, Stuns, Immbo are VERY strong against a class that lacks condition removal without taking long cool down skills or high cost traits. Anyone that really knows a Mesmer knows what to look out for and knows how to counter it.

“anyone focusing a Mesmer first in a fight deserves to lose usually. "

It must be really hard to rotate stealth / dodge / blink from 600 – 900 range and yep as pu mesmer you wont really need to tough your F1 – F4 skills… awesome right ?

You heard it here first Blurred Frenzy is weak, kitten anyone who thinks being invulnerable 2 seconds out of every 12 is strong. Phase Retreat is the best in combat mobility spell in the game. Its a 6 second cooldown stun break that creates a clone when traited. You keep complaining about +50% movement in stealth but don’t even realize its only 33% just like every other +50% since 33% in the hard cap in this buggy game. Focus anything that isn’t a Thief, Mesmer, or a tank in a team fight. If all are tanks/stealthers focus the squishiest tank in order of squishiest to tankiest, terrible Elementalist, Warrior without greatsword, good Elementalist with staff, Necromancer, bad Engineer, Ranger, Guardian, good Elementalist without staff and finally a good Engineer. You will never kill a good stealther and a good Warrior with greatsword in a tank build is ignorable.

Mike.5193:

Prysin.8542:

Steeroth.9684:

I just think all classes have their strong and weak points and everyone should learn to live with that…

I absolutely agree, however i’d like to note that some professions have a harder time then others performing at the same level.

Well, then people shouldn’t play an engineer or elementalist if they cannot deal with such a demanding class (swapping kits/attunements). There is nothing wrong with not being able to play a class to its full potential, there are other classes for you to choose. As it happens, most people can play to the 80% of a warrior’s or guardian’s full potential, therefore more people play warrior and guardian.

Large scale fights also hide many player’s weaknesses because they have so many others to pick up the slack. The same people that zerg around all day will probably not do well in a small scale havoc group when they come across a larger force.

You think swapping attunements is HARD? HARD?
Ele’s are barely in the “intermediate” scale when it comes to difficulty. It takes 5 hours tops to learn how, when and why to change attunements, then you are ready to play perfectly. The rest comes down to build and weapon.

Engineer and Ranger are the only two professions i consider to be “hard” to play. Why?
Engineer – the kits prevent you from using some utilities, and using the right kit, in the right moment, without being fried for making a mistake is not easy. Different kits also have vastly different effects, some even have multiple.
Ranger – The pet can be ignored in PvE content. It isn’t doing much for you there. In WvW however, you must keep track of that pet at all times. If it enters a red circle of any sort, it dies in 2 seconds, and then your DPS goes down the drain alongside some very useful utilities. The pet is unreliable, reacting slowly, performing poorly and melting easily. The synergy between traits and pet, means that one necro can slap epidemic on it, and the pet will later on kill off the ranger and everyone around the ranger when it returns. Worst part is, i have to target my pet at all times to monitor the conditions on it. So i got no idea of that pet will be carrying doom and gloom back to me, or if everything is fine. All i know is that it’s HP bar vaporizes in a moments notice if you do not pay attention.
That pet also allows thieves to abuse their stealth even more, because they can hit the pet to “refresh” their stealth, without the ranger knowing, giving them a lot more time to prepare a perfect backstab+heartseeker combo on the ranger itself.

Ranger is the only profession that has a serious drawback to it’s class mechanic. Everyone else has one or several good benefits.

Liza.2758:

It must be really hard to rotate stealth / dodge / blink from 600 – 900 range and yep as pu mesmer you wont really need to tough your F1 – F4 skills… awesome right ?

I have a level 80 Mesmer, while Blink is nice, so many classes can use skills that go further to keep them in range. The biggest draw back to Mesmer is the lack of of 25% movement trait, which nearly every class has. Anyone that cant Interrupt Mass Invis with its OBVIOUS animation and long cast time doesn’t deserve to beat a Mesmer in my opinion.

though i love how people try to make out certain classes to be some sort of Godmode. Which Mesmer are far from. While very good at Duels, they can and still do get beaten and they become weaker and weaker the more they are out numbered/focused.

@ prysin

Its hard because it has 12 sec CD when you swap bro… even out of combat.
conjue weaps are also useless because it blocks all the skills

ArmageddonAsh.6430:

Liza.2758:

It must be really hard to rotate stealth / dodge / blink from 600 – 900 range and yep as pu mesmer you wont really need to tough your F1 – F4 skills… awesome right ?

I have a level 80 Mesmer, while Blink is nice, so many classes can use skills that go further to keep them in range. The biggest draw back to Mesmer is the lack of of 25% movement trait, which nearly every class has. Anyone that cant Interrupt Mass Invis with its OBVIOUS animation and long cast time doesn’t deserve to beat a Mesmer in my opinion.

though i love how people try to make out certain classes to be some sort of Godmode. Which Mesmer are far from. While very good at Duels, they can and still do get beaten and they become weaker and weaker the more they are out numbered/focused.

on my mesmer i cover that 25% movement with traveler runes or Speed runes in spvp bro.

glaphen.5230:

You heard it here first Blurred Frenzy is weak, kitten anyone who thinks being invulnerable 2 seconds out of every 12 is strong. Phase Retreat is the best in combat mobility spell in the game. Its a 6 second cooldown stun break that creates a clone when traited. You keep complaining about +50% movement in stealth but don’t even realize its only 33% just like every other +50% since 33% in the hard cap in this buggy game. Focus anything that isn’t a Thief, Mesmer, or a tank in a team fight. If all are tanks/stealthers focus the squishiest tank in order of squishiest to tankiest, terrible Elementalist, Warrior without greatsword, good Elementalist with staff, Necromancer, bad Engineer, Ranger, Guardian, good Elementalist without staff and finally a good Engineer. You will never kill a good stealther and a good Warrior with greatsword in a tank build is ignorable.

I am talking DEFENSE, offensively of course it is strong, deals solid damage that i wouldn’t really call amazing, but solid enough but defense wise it would be better in most cases just to run, than to use a skill that doesn’t allow you to move.

Yeah because when you NEED to be immune to damage is the kind of time you want to stand still for 2 seconds allowing the enemy to get ready to burst you the moment its ended…

You have no idea what you are even talking about – an example being:

“Phase Retreat is the best in combat mobility spell in the game. Its a 6 second cooldown stun break that creates a clone when traited. "

Phase retreat doesnt need a trait to make a clone :/
It also doesnt break stuns, If you get Immbo and you use it, you do move but you STILL have it on you.

“You will never kill a good stealther”

This again based on your S/TPvP experiences? Because, it is quite different in WvW. Maybe play the mode once in a while.

Liza.2758:

on my mesmer i cover that 25% movement with traveler runes or Speed runes in spvp bro.

Same. Not everyone can afford them, due to cost of build requirements though.

Liza.2758:

@ prysin

Its hard because it has 12 sec CD when you swap bro… even out of combat.
conjue weaps are also useless because it blocks all the skills

pets have 16 seconds if NOT DEAD. 60 seconds IF DEAD.

Now, try to NOT swap from water for up to 60 seconds when in dire need of DPS. Think you can manage? You can heal until the CD is over, but so can my ranger. Either way, your Ele is twice as likely to lose in such a situation due to lower armor and HP. And while rangers tank like mad, they still can be brought down if focused or bursted by two enemies.

Mesmer can cleanse conditions fairly well if you take the trait that removes Condi on torch skills coupled with the Condi remove mantra or arcane thieft. Its just a matter of giving other things up. That is the essence of class balance and the problem right now is some class have way to easy a time having good personal defense well giving up very little well other classes don’t even have a choice to give up something to gain some where else.

glaphen.5230:

Phase Retreat is the best in combat mobility spell in the game. Its a 6 second cooldown stun break that creates a clone when traited.

It’s 8 seconds traited and not a stun break. It does create a clone though!

ArmageddonAsh.6430:

glaphen.5230:

You heard it here first Blurred Frenzy is weak, kitten anyone who thinks being invulnerable 2 seconds out of every 12 is strong. Phase Retreat is the best in combat mobility spell in the game. Its a 6 second cooldown stun break that creates a clone when traited. You keep complaining about +50% movement in stealth but don’t even realize its only 33% just like every other +50% since 33% in the hard cap in this buggy game. Focus anything that isn’t a Thief, Mesmer, or a tank in a team fight. If all are tanks/stealthers focus the squishiest tank in order of squishiest to tankiest, terrible Elementalist, Warrior without greatsword, good Elementalist with staff, Necromancer, bad Engineer, Ranger, Guardian, good Elementalist without staff and finally a good Engineer. You will never kill a good stealther and a good Warrior with greatsword in a tank build is ignorable.

I am talking DEFENSE, offensively of course it is strong, deals solid damage that i wouldn’t really call amazing, but solid enough but defense wise it would be better in most cases just to run, than to use a skill that doesn’t allow you to move.

Yeah because when you NEED to be immune to damage is the kind of time you want to stand still for 2 seconds allowing the enemy to get ready to burst you the moment its ended…

You have no idea what you are even talking about – an example being:

“Phase Retreat is the best in combat mobility spell in the game. Its a 6 second cooldown stun break that creates a clone when traited. "

Phase retreat doesnt need a trait to make a clone :/
It also doesnt break stuns, If you get Immbo and you use it, you do move but you STILL have it on you.

“You will never kill a good stealther”

This again based on your S/TPvP experiences? Because, it is quite different in WvW. Maybe play the mode once in a while.

You know you don’t have to use it the entire duration and can cancel it really easily. The invulnerability turns on the moment you press the button unlike Pistol Whip Thieves that have a .5 second waiting period. The traited means the cooldown reduction down to 6 seconds with both clone cooldown and staff cooldown traits. Poor Mesmers don’t break immobilize with stun breaks just like every other class but they still get to move out of the burst. In Spvp Thieves are like 50% weaker and cannot escape any situation so I don’t understand why you are mentioning Spvp as if it helps your point.

Samhayn.2385:

Mesmer can cleanse conditions fairly well if you take the trait that removes Condi on torch skills coupled with the Condi remove mantra or arcane thieft. Its just a matter of giving other things up. That is the essence of class balance and the problem right now is some class have way to easy a time having good personal defense well giving up very little well other classes don’t even have a choice to give up something to gain some where else.

Yeah the problem with that is you are being forced into it, thanks to nothing else. The torch (imo) isnt the best weapon for most builds either. If the Phantasm was replaced/buffed then it would be great i just find it rather weak.

Taking the Mantra leaves you weaker thanks to having to replace a utility. What would you replace? to many of them just seem “key” skills that you can’t really get rid of, Blink important for mobility and positioning, stun break as well. Mirror Images can be very strong as well and again stun break.

I agree, it just doesnt seem balanced across the classes how you can remove conditions, of course i wouldnt expect and no one should to be able to compete with the Necromancer for condition removal/moving i do think their is a big jump from how well a Mesmer can do it compared to some of the other classes that require less put into it.

glaphen.5230:

You heard it here first Blurred Frenzy is weak, kitten anyone who thinks being invulnerable 2 seconds out of every 12 is strong.

Just to stop misinformation- Blurred frenzy is not invulnerability, it is only evasion now and has been for months: https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/info/updates/Game-Update-Notes-June-25th-2013/first

Carry on the “discussion”

Zen.4678:

glaphen.5230:

You heard it here first Blurred Frenzy is weak, kitten anyone who thinks being invulnerable 2 seconds out of every 12 is strong.

Just to stop misinformation- Blurred frenzy is not invulnerability, it is only evasion now and has been for months: https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/info/updates/Game-Update-Notes-June-25th-2013/first

Carry on the “discussion”

The only difference is stuff like Engineers shield stun works and retaliation works on it.

glaphen.5230:

Zen.4678:

glaphen.5230:

You heard it here first Blurred Frenzy is weak, kitten anyone who thinks being invulnerable 2 seconds out of every 12 is strong.

Just to stop misinformation- Blurred frenzy is not invulnerability, it is only evasion now and has been for months: https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/info/updates/Game-Update-Notes-June-25th-2013/first

Carry on the “discussion”

The only difference is stuff like Engineers shield stun works and retaliation works on it.

Which is a significant change to saying that it’s invulnerability.

Zen.4678:

glaphen.5230:

Zen.4678:

glaphen.5230:

You heard it here first Blurred Frenzy is weak, kitten anyone who thinks being invulnerable 2 seconds out of every 12 is strong.

Just to stop misinformation- Blurred frenzy is not invulnerability, it is only evasion now and has been for months: https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/info/updates/Game-Update-Notes-June-25th-2013/first

Carry on the “discussion”

The only difference is stuff like Engineers shield stun works and retaliation works on it.

Which is a significant change to saying that it’s invulnerability.

Mesmer is still one of the least affected by retaliation classes since clones do all the damage.

glaphen.5230:

You know you don’t have to use it the entire duration and can cancel it really easily. The invulnerability turns on the moment you press the button unlike Pistol Whip Thieves that have a .5 second waiting period. The traited means the cooldown reduction down to 6 seconds with both clone cooldown and staff cooldown traits. Poor Mesmers don’t break immobilize with stun breaks just like every other class but they still get to move out of the burst. In Spvp Thieves are like 50% weaker and cannot escape any situation so I don’t understand why you are mentioning Spvp as if it helps your point.

Of course you dont, but why would you waste a cool down for lets say 1 second invul (50% duration) you are still stuck their for that time, which could be better spent – running maybe? healing? Going stealth? Knockbacks? stuns?

Yeaah with the trait it is pretty solid, but thats what you get with a more defense orientated weapon and skill set. of course it is to be expected that those dont work

Also, i am pretty sure (been a while since i last played My mesmer with Sword) that you still take damage from someone if they have Retal. Some times MORE damage than you actually deal depending on the build. would have to check dunno about conditions you already have.

I asked the S/TPvP thing since you made LOADS of comments about Necromancer, basing it all on your S/TPvp experience when you havent even played them inside WvW

glaphen.5230:

Zen.4678:

glaphen.5230:

Zen.4678:

glaphen.5230:

You heard it here first Blurred Frenzy is weak, kitten anyone who thinks being invulnerable 2 seconds out of every 12 is strong.

Just to stop misinformation- Blurred frenzy is not invulnerability, it is only evasion now and has been for months: https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/info/updates/Game-Update-Notes-June-25th-2013/first

Carry on the “discussion”

The only difference is stuff like Engineers shield stun works and retaliation works on it.

Which is a significant change to saying that it’s invulnerability.

Mesmer is still one of the least affected by retaliation classes since clones do all the damage.

Please fact check skills and don’t spread misinformation about them. Enjoy your thread.

glaphen.5230:

Mesmer is still one of the least affected by retaliation classes since clones do all the damage.

PHANTASMS deal the damage.
CLONES do like >10 damage

Learn the difference.

They still get affected by it. They don’t just stand around not attacking and let the Phantasms do all the damage

Zen.4678:

Please fact check skills and don’t spread misinformation about them. Enjoy your thread.

You should see some of his Necromancer comments…

Please list the build where you kill things without clones and sad if you think it matters whether I say clones, phantasms or illusions. Also sword auto attack removes boons so even clones can stop retaliation easily.

glaphen.5230:

Zen.4678:

glaphen.5230:

Zen.4678:

glaphen.5230:

You heard it here first Blurred Frenzy is weak, kitten anyone who thinks being invulnerable 2 seconds out of every 12 is strong.

Just to stop misinformation- Blurred frenzy is not invulnerability, it is only evasion now and has been for months: https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/info/updates/Game-Update-Notes-June-25th-2013/first

Carry on the “discussion”

The only difference is stuff like Engineers shield stun works and retaliation works on it.

Which is a significant change to saying that it’s invulnerability.

Mesmer is still one of the least affected by retaliation classes since clones do all the damage.

miss informed again. u just blindly hate mesmers. if my phantasm hits a target with retal i get the retal dmg like everyone else.play mes and try to survive in a zerg and then come and talk again.

glaphen.5230:

Please list the build where you kill things without clones and sad if you think it matters whether I say clones, phantasms or illusions. Also sword auto attack removes boons so even clones can stop retaliation easily.

Your words:

“Mesmer is still one of the least affected by retaliation classes since clones do all the damage.”

Really!? ALL of the damage?

I would like to see this Mesmer you think that just summons 3 Phantasms and then stands back and does nothing while the Phantasms kill the person…

selan.8354:

miss informed again. u just blindly hate mesmers. if my phantasm hits a target with retal i get the retal dmg like everyone else.play mes and try to survive in a zerg and then come and talk again.

No point, he plays S/TPvP. Most of his comments about Necromancer were very wrong as well. Now it seems he as moved on to another class that he is going to base all of his “Knowledge” from S/TPvP…

Once again I tested it and retaliation hit the clone and not you so I don’t know what you are even talking about. I have a level 80 Mesmer moron it was the first class I played.

Also
I actually have the least play time in Spvp out of all modes. I have done every single temporary achievement besides dailies and probably have like 1000 hours on WvW.
Do you not remember the post I replied to you earlier?

glaphen.5230:

Please list the build where you kill things without clones and sad if you think it matters whether I say clones, phantasms or illusions. Also sword auto attack removes boons so even clones can stop retaliation easily.

first off: clones have like no health, die in a zerg nonstop and u will have a hard time to shatter them as they barey reach the target

phantasms: need los, cant be used when blinded, are affected by cc and die very very fast in a zerg, often die before they get a single hit off

clones are part of the entire class, u cant just turn them off as they appear all the time. they are in our weapons and traits. seriously go play one and then come back

selan.8354:

glaphen.5230:

Please list the build where you kill things without clones and sad if you think it matters whether I say clones, phantasms or illusions. Also sword auto attack removes boons so even clones can stop retaliation easily.

first off: clones have like no health, die in a zerg nonstop and u will have a hard time to shatter them as they barey reach the target

phantasms: need los, cant be used when blinded, are affected by cc and die very very fast in a zerg, often die before they get a single hit off

clones are part of the entire class, u cant just turn them off as they appear all the time. they are in our weapons and traits. seriously go play one and then come back

How does that change anything about what I said? I was also talking about small group play or less in the first place. Mesmers in zerg are nothing but Veil, Portal and Feedback bots unless the Mesmer is good enough to stealth behind the enemy zerg like a Thief should be doing too.

glaphen.5230:

Once again I tested it and retaliation hit the clone and not you so I don’t know what you are even talking about. I have a level 80 Mesmer moron it was the first class I played.

Also
I actually have the least play time in Spvp out of all modes. I have done every single temporary achievement besides dailies and probably have like 1000 hours on WvW.
Do you not remember the post I replied to you earlier?

great and i have 2k hours, but i main a mesmer and if u know anything about them u wouldnt state things here that are simply false. also u would know that clones are in every weapon and dont call me a moron as i dont call u names either or did i.

selan.8354:

glaphen.5230:

Once again I tested it and retaliation hit the clone and not you so I don’t know what you are even talking about. I have a level 80 Mesmer moron it was the first class I played.

Also
I actually have the least play time in Spvp out of all modes. I have done every single temporary achievement besides dailies and probably have like 1000 hours on WvW.
Do you not remember the post I replied to you earlier?

great and i have 2k hours, but i main a mesmer and if u know anything about them u wouldnt state things here that are simply false. also u would know that clones are in every weapon and dont call me a moron as i dont call u names either or did i.

The moron was directed at the other guy though you are the one who said retaliation hits you instead of clones.

glaphen.5230:

Once again I tested it and retaliation hit the clone and not you so I don’t know what you are even talking about. I have a level 80 Mesmer moron it was the first class I played.

You know that Blurred Frenzy you love so much, guess what happens if you use it on someone with Retal….

Lets see your Mesmer " clones do all the damage." build…

I am still waiting to see this Mesmer that you think has Illusions do all the work (minus the summoning, but i’ll let you off on that)

glaphen.5230:

Also
I actually have the least play time in Spvp out of all modes. I have done every single temporary achievement besides dailies and probably have like 1000 hours on WvW.
Do you not remember the post I replied to you earlier?

As what class(es) You already tried to inist that your “knowledge” from S/TPvP meant that Necro are amazing and that Dark Path is a quality skill, which those of us who have actually PLAYED a Necro is WvW is a different story…

glaphen.5230:

selan.8354:

glaphen.5230:

Please list the build where you kill things without clones and sad if you think it matters whether I say clones, phantasms or illusions. Also sword auto attack removes boons so even clones can stop retaliation easily.

first off: clones have like no health, die in a zerg nonstop and u will have a hard time to shatter them as they barey reach the target

phantasms: need los, cant be used when blinded, are affected by cc and die very very fast in a zerg, often die before they get a single hit off

clones are part of the entire class, u cant just turn them off as they appear all the time. they are in our weapons and traits. seriously go play one and then come back

How does that change anything about what I said? I was also talking about small group play or less in the first place. Mesmers in zerg are nothing but Veil, Portal and Feedback bots unless the Mesmer is good enough to stealth behind the enemy zerg like a Thief should be doing too.

yeah small group play and if u knew anything about mes u would know that the build itself has nothing to do with clones or not. they are there no matter what. same with phantasms. so what do u want? blurred frenzy wher u were wrong stuff about autoattacks nonstop removing boons…? every 3rd attack does that…what on earth re u doing? standing still and letting a light armor hit u nonstop in the face?
if i wanted to remove your boons i certainly cant count on my sword, ill use nullfield or arcane thievery!
u are in the wvw section here and we are talking about classes in wvw and large group fights are part of that, not just roaming. mes have weaknesses…big ones. yes the pu builds need a little tone down, but other than that your whole problem sounds more like an l2p issue here.

So Mesmer has one or two attack skills per weapon that trigger retaliation and don’t do as much damage as clones yet it somehow makes my statement that Mesmers are the best class against retaliation false?

selan.8354:

glaphen.5230:

selan.8354:

glaphen.5230:

Please list the build where you kill things without clones and sad if you think it matters whether I say clones, phantasms or illusions. Also sword auto attack removes boons so even clones can stop retaliation easily.

first off: clones have like no health, die in a zerg nonstop and u will have a hard time to shatter them as they barey reach the target

phantasms: need los, cant be used when blinded, are affected by cc and die very very fast in a zerg, often die before they get a single hit off

clones are part of the entire class, u cant just turn them off as they appear all the time. they are in our weapons and traits. seriously go play one and then come back

How does that change anything about what I said? I was also talking about small group play or less in the first place. Mesmers in zerg are nothing but Veil, Portal and Feedback bots unless the Mesmer is good enough to stealth behind the enemy zerg like a Thief should be doing too.

yeah small group play and if u knew anything about mes u would know that the build itself has nothing to do with clones or not. they are there no matter what. same with phantasms. so what do u want? blurred frenzy wher u were wrong stuff about autoattacks nonstop removing boons…? every 3rd attack does that…what on earth re u doing? standing still and letting a light armor hit u nonstop in the face?
if i wanted to remove your boons i certainly cant count on my sword, ill use nullfield or arcane thievery!
u are in the wvw section here and we are talking about classes in wvw and large group fights are part of that, not just roaming. mes have weaknesses…big ones. yes the pu builds need a little tone down, but other than that your whole problem sounds more like an l2p issue here.

Wow would you look at all that boon removal and you still have clones taking retaliation damage. How many other classes have boon removal and how many have pets to do their damage and take the retaliation if it isn’t removed. Answer is only MM Necromancer. I don’t even know where you got the idea I have a problem anywhere.

ArmageddonAsh.6430:

glaphen.5230:

Once again I tested it and retaliation hit the clone and not you so I don’t know what you are even talking about. I have a level 80 Mesmer moron it was the first class I played.

You know that Blurred Frenzy you love so much, guess what happens if you use it on someone with Retal….

Lets see your Mesmer " clones do all the damage." build…

I am still waiting to see this Mesmer that you think has Illusions do all the work (minus the summoning, but i’ll let you off on that)

glaphen.5230:

Also
I actually have the least play time in Spvp out of all modes. I have done every single temporary achievement besides dailies and probably have like 1000 hours on WvW.
Do you not remember the post I replied to you earlier?

As what class(es) You already tried to inist that your “knowledge” from S/TPvP meant that Necro are amazing and that Dark Path is a quality skill, which those of us who have actually PLAYED a Necro is WvW is a different story…

this! sooo much! i play both necro and mes but main my mes and gotta say that as my mes i am constantly on the move, dodging, casting, blinking trying to block and all that. my clones are useless in a big fight, so im on my own right there. i do gvg’s quiet often and mes is not an ai class that lest the clones do all the work at all. so what class do u play then…its clearly not mes or necro

glaphen.5230:

So Mesmer has one or two attack skills per weapon that trigger retaliation and don’t do as much damage as clones yet it somehow makes my statement that Mesmers are the best class against retaliation false?

Yes. Because both Clones and Phantasms are EASILY killed. What does the Mesmer do then? unless they do nothing in which case they die.

The best class against Retaliation is ones that REMOVE it or Corrupt it. In my opinion that would be Necroamncer they have ALOT more access to “boon hate” Through well, traits, skills, marks,