Guild Wars 2

1) Slap a CD of 20 seconds on the interrupt bonus.
2) Fix the confusion duration bugs
3) Maybe change the “20% on-hit” to “30% on crit” for the number 4 rune bonus…..?

1) Remove all these confusion, retaliation, and torment barbs from the game as they do not make sense given the design.

Other games were not only more careful with these effects damage wise, they also had more practical options of alternative things you could do… like heal or buff if you can’t attack, or stand still and get healed by an ally if you couldn’t move.

These types of effects are not doing this game any favors….

Luthan.5236:

How long is the internal CD on the 6th rune effect? Seems strong if the internal CD was too low. If not the runes seem okay. Should be at least 30 seconds internal cd(3 times the duration like with skill 4 where it already is mentioned).

If you’re actually asking, the ICD on the 6th effect is inexistant – spam away.

Yeah. I read it in some other thread already. Seems heavily bugged and not intended since most other runes have internal CD even on some totally weak stuff. They probably did not have in mind that some classes can use interrupt very often and therefore forgot to put an internal CD. If interrupt were more rare so you there was no class that could use them more than 1 each 20 seconds then no CD would be needed.

Maybe they also could change it like Guardian Symbol of Swiftness: Only applies swiftness if there is no swiftness at target(at least undil Dec 10 when they’ll change it).

Only apply confusion if there is no confusion on the target. Then it could stay with 10 seconds internal CD only. Use it again after 10 seconds to reapply. But only if you haven’t applied confusion with some other skill.

not available is spvp. make it not available in wvw. problem solved.

or change the last bonus to something else

How the kitten are these runes still in the game? It’s been months…

Brew Pinch.5731:

How the kitten are these runes still in the game? It’s been months…

http://i.imgur.com/eACzJ4e.gif

Oozo.7856:

You must have missed his video of killing people with perplexity and fireworks.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1z-d9vGO52E

brb, making a troll condition necro set with fireworks.

Seriously, though, confusion in general should be seriously looked at.

Too easily abused by select classes. Poorly thought out design. If a rune can change your entire class to the point shown in multiple videos, its obviously not working as intended.

Brew Pinch.5731:

How the kitten are these runes still in the game? It’s been months…

There have been class and game breaking bugs in the game since Beta and they have still not been fixed. It took the developers months and months to fix Necro downed state health – which was a massive issue.

Given the time it takes to resolve said issues, I would not expect action quickly.

Avigrus.2871:

There have been class and game breaking bugs in the game since Beta and they have still not been fixed. It took the developers months and months to fix Necro downed state health – which was a massive issue.

Given the time it takes to resolve said issues, I would not expect action quickly.

Those were presumably difficult bugs to fix. They can just straight up remove perplexity until they’ve had time to look at the runes, something you can’t do with an entire class.

^and they fixed the torment runes immediately. So if they say it takes time, that’s complete BS. It’s an effortless little thing to change for them. It doesn’t affect the balance of spvp though since they aren’t in there in the first place because they know how stupidly OP they are, so they couldn’t care less since it wont effect their e-sport.

Anet plays favorites.

#truth

Brew Pinch.5731:

Avigrus.2871:

There have been class and game breaking bugs in the game since Beta and they have still not been fixed. It took the developers months and months to fix Necro downed state health – which was a massive issue.

Given the time it takes to resolve said issues, I would not expect action quickly.

Those were presumably difficult bugs to fix. They can just straight up remove perplexity until they’ve had time to look at the runes, something you can’t do with an entire class.

Good point.

PolishSausage.1279:

Oozo.7856:

You must have missed his video of killing people with perplexity and fireworks.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1z-d9vGO52E

brb, making a troll condition necro set with fireworks.

And then you will walk out into WvW, and you will get your behind handed to you again and again over and over. And then you meet this guy, who doesn’t know much, and he kills himself to confusion. And you have it frapsed and you put it on Youtube and you go here thinking you should get a Nobel prize or something.

Josh Davis.6015:

Just wanted to pop in and say we haven’t forgotten about this. The good news is the change should be coming sooner than later.

Thanks for your patience.

Praise Lord Grouch

Josh Davis.6015:

Just wanted to pop in and say we haven’t forgotten about this. The good news is the change should be coming sooner than later.

Thanks for your patience.

I can’t help but think you finally made some runes with enough oomph to create valid new competitive builds and then backpedal… while simultaneously saying “We know there are a lot of runes/sigils out there that are ineffectual trash we’d like to bring some value to.”

I just hope the revised Perplexity runes remain potent enough to be interesting, instead of joining the vast ranks of mediocrity still waiting to get that polish.

I’ve made 18 of them (equipped one set of six on a Ranger, go figure) and have the mats on hand for another set. Just waiting to see if the new version prompts the creativity and experimentation the first version did or if we’re looking at another tepid batch of gunk while the Lyssa set continues to define ‘overpowered’.

Oozo.7856:

TooBz.3065:

Agreed. There is a great video out there of a thief with only an off-hand pistol killing people with these runes.

You must have missed his video of killing people with perplexity and fireworks.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1z-d9vGO52E

While perplexity runes are undoubtedly a massive problem, that’s just as much a testament of how ridiculous thieves evasion is when combined with all the passive-defensive abilities and traits they have.

Hmm, what will everyone blame now when they die in WvW?

I tried these for a few nights, and I never understood all the hubbub, and swapped them out for what I was originally using, and I never seem to notice them being used against me.

Are you making any other rune changes, either nerfs or buffs, Jon???

They at least allowed Mesmer to play some different builds, I hope they don’t get over nerfed, Confusion needs to stay in the game, mindless tards pressing one in a zerg deserve their fate, I hope it is only 6/6 that gets an ICD, Engineer and Warrior doing better with Confusion than Mesmer is wrong.

Apparently everyone forgot about Sigils of Generosity and Sigil of Purity.

Counters to this are already in the game, but everyone want to nerf stuff instead of fight against the meta.

Great job guys, worst game community 2013.

bravoart.5308:

Apparently everyone forgot about Sigils of Generosity and Sigil of Purity.

Counters to this are already in the game, but everyone want to nerf stuff instead of fight against the meta.

Great job guys, worst game community 2013.

Hahaha.

I look forward to more posts like this.

Conncept.7638:

Oozo.7856:

TooBz.3065:

Agreed. There is a great video out there of a thief with only an off-hand pistol killing people with these runes.

You must have missed his video of killing people with perplexity and fireworks.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1z-d9vGO52E

While perplexity runes are undoubtedly a massive problem, that’s just as much a testament of how ridiculous thieves evasion is when combined with all the passive-defensive abilities and traits they have.

Tell me sir, what passive defensive traits do we (thieves) have that are so ridiculous?

Maesk.8753:

Conncept.7638:

Oozo.7856:

TooBz.3065:

Agreed. There is a great video out there of a thief with only an off-hand pistol killing people with these runes.

You must have missed his video of killing people with perplexity and fireworks.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1z-d9vGO52E

While perplexity runes are undoubtedly a massive problem, that’s just as much a testament of how ridiculous thieves evasion is when combined with all the passive-defensive abilities and traits they have.

Tell me sir, what passive defensive traits do we (thieves) have that are so ridiculous?

You can’t be serious? Let’s see:

• Condition removal upon entering stealth and every three seconds thereafter, half the classes in the game only have 1-2 damaging conditions and 3-4 total. This is virtual immunity to condition builds from those classes merely by chaining 1-2 stealth skills together.
• Condition removal upon evading
• AoE disable upon dodging
• AoE Blind upon entering stealth and every three seconds thereafter. This procs when stealth is activated not when it resolves. Meaning this completely nullifies the single possible counteraction to stealth, interrupts.
• Not one but two regeneration in stealth traits. 3600 damage healed without any investment in to healing power. If you read the comments you would know this is how the guy in the fireworks video survived.
• Healing upon using initiative
• Healing upon evading
• Fed initiative upon evading
• Fed initiative upon healing
• Fed initiative upon entering stealth and while in stealth

And of course not a single ICD anywhere

And I said ‘all the passive defensive trats’ not ‘a passive defensive trait’. None of these trait are game-breaking unto themselves. However enough of them (and there are a lot, I didn’t even list them all) and the thief works in a nearly self-sustaining system. What the thief is meant to spend it’s resource and cooldowns on (the risk and reward of thief play, go all in and have nothing left, or hold back and escape) instead feeds them, meaning that no matter how far a thief delves in to an attack, it always gets enough back to survive, and most importantly, without any active play.

I find it amusing you just read off the checklist for what’s getting nerfed for thieves on Dec 10. Ok, the heal on spending initiative is actually going up a little, but mostly in the form of Healing power scaling AND its being moved up to the Grandmaster status it rightly commands.

I guess the Perplexity changes come sooner – I’m hopeful that the term nerf is less applicable and there is more of a correction/sanity check at work here. They added fun. Hopefully they can still be fun without crossing the threshold into abusive. Because ‘adding fun’ is something runes are not doing as often as they could .

To the people who will come out of the woodwork and criticize anet, shame on you.

Kudos Josh. Thanks for finally getting around to this.

Well, since this is quickly becoming another THIEVES OP topic instead of keeping the focus on the actual problem, here’s the full build I used to make the fireworks video:

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fYAQBViZq8cpJtT8nTEeP+KaNrmCaazOFcV+A-jEBBpQFRjtsuIasaUER1eEER1A-w
(note: gw2skills.net only has ascended/exotic gear… I was actually in green carrion gear. I’m way too cheap to buy fancy things for a joke video).

As you can see, most of the skills/traits people are complaining about aren’t even in this build.

Nike.2631:

I find it amusing you just read off the checklist for what’s getting nerfed for thieves on Dec 10. Ok, the heal on spending initiative is actually going up a little, but mostly in the form of Healing power scaling AND its being moved up to the Grandmaster status it rightly commands.

I guess the Perplexity changes come sooner – I’m hopeful that the term nerf is less applicable and there is more of a correction/sanity check at work here. They added fun. Hopefully they can still be fun without crossing the threshold into abusive. Because ‘adding fun’ is something runes are not doing as often as they could .

You’re also getting a 33% buff to base initiative gain. It comes out to just about even, except now you don’t have to spend any traits. As to whether or not this will be a buff or nerf in the end, no telling until it goes live.

And you are seriously the posterboy for the problem with the thief class and gaming at large. These were ‘fun’ for the person using them and nobody else, they removed all counterplay, provided no tactile or visual affect on gameplay, and the only fun from them came from knowing how frustrated your opponent was. If you enjoy that, then I pity you.

Conncept.7638:

Maesk.8753:

Conncept.7638:

Oozo.7856:

TooBz.3065:

Agreed. There is a great video out there of a thief with only an off-hand pistol killing people with these runes.

You must have missed his video of killing people with perplexity and fireworks.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1z-d9vGO52E

While perplexity runes are undoubtedly a massive problem, that’s just as much a testament of how ridiculous thieves evasion is when combined with all the passive-defensive abilities and traits they have.

Tell me sir, what passive defensive traits do we (thieves) have that are so ridiculous?

You can’t be serious? Let’s see:

• Condition removal upon entering stealth and every three seconds thereafter, half the classes in the game only have 1-2 damaging conditions and 3-4 total. This is virtual immunity to condition builds from those classes merely by chaining 1-2 stealth skills together.
• Condition removal upon evading
• AoE disable upon dodging
• AoE Blind upon entering stealth and every three seconds thereafter. This procs when stealth is activated not when it resolves. Meaning this completely nullifies the single possible counteraction to stealth, interrupts.
• Not one but two regeneration in stealth traits. 3600 damage healed without any investment in to healing power. If you read the comments you would know this is how the guy in the fireworks video survived.
• Healing upon using initiative
• Healing upon evading
• Fed initiative upon evading
• Fed initiative upon healing
• Fed initiative upon entering stealth and while in stealth

And of course not a single ICD anywhere

And I said ‘all the passive defensive trats’ not ‘a passive defensive trait’. None of these trait are game-breaking unto themselves. However enough of them (and there are a lot, I didn’t even list them all) and the thief works in a nearly self-sustaining system. What the thief is meant to spend it’s resource and cooldowns on (the risk and reward of thief play, go all in and have nothing left, or hold back and escape) instead feeds them, meaning that no matter how far a thief delves in to an attack, it always gets enough back to survive, and most importantly, without any active play.

woah i wanna know how you got enough points for all those traits and use multiple spells even though classes can use only 5 spells at given time…. must be a hax

jokes aside, there is so much wrong about this post:
- yes thieves can remove conditions in stealth, yes chaining stealth is possible however it comes at quite high costs (either long CDs or possible dmg + you have to invest points into tree for it -> more dmg/utility sacrifice)
- evade doesn’t remove all conditions but weakness and cripples, also comes at costs of dodge and trait (and is actually located in completely different tree as condi removal on stealth)
- aoe disable upon dodge what? that is new to me
- aoe blind upon entering stealth again costs either ini or long CD + points into shadow tree -> less points for dmg; also it doesn’t blind enemy again, it is 1 time blind, get your facts straight
- regen in stealth again….costs stealth (ini or long CD) + traits and they don’t stack either…
- healing by using initiative -> trait
- there is no healing upon evading except for withdraw, however if you took withdraw you have 1 stealth spell less, meaning points above are way less effective/less used
- there is no ini gain on dodge unless you ment withdraw and hastened replenishment trait (grandmaster in trickery)
- gaining ini in stealth again costs trait and is getting majorly nerfed next patch btw

from the look of your description every thief must be using following spec:

0/0/30/30/30
have withdraw and 0 dmg, but not hide in shadows
note: ran out of points in shadow tree, as listed “passive” traits come from same tree but you can only choose 3 so in given game it is not possible both regen traits, blind trait, condi removal trait, ini gain trait etc. active at the same time
note2: since idk wth is disable upon dodging, i ignored that point

the issue with all those listed “passive” traits is that they all sounds nice on paper but it is not possible to have them at the same time and they come at high cost of trait + CDs+ ini, ignore the fact that choosing them thief gives up dmg, a lot of it too

lastly, let me remind you why thieves have to rely on stealth/dodge: they don’t have protections, blocks, invul or any good heals, their healing/toughness scaling is horrendous

you say thief evasion is ridicilous? i can take warriors right now, make list of their crap and suddenly thieves look like a sad joke

back to topic: glad something gonna be done about runes; runes should be helping builds not define them

Their toughness scaling is horrendous?… it’s the same as every1 else.

Cares Less.9631:

They at least allowed Mesmer to play some different builds, I hope they don’t get over nerfed, Confusion needs to stay in the game, mindless tards pressing one in a zerg deserve their fate, I hope it is only 6/6 that gets an ICD, Engineer and Warrior doing better with Confusion than Mesmer is wrong.

Why is it wrong? Engineer has more access naturally to confusion than a mesmer.

mas.7401:

Cares Less.9631:

They at least allowed Mesmer to play some different builds, I hope they don’t get over nerfed, Confusion needs to stay in the game, mindless tards pressing one in a zerg deserve their fate, I hope it is only 6/6 that gets an ICD, Engineer and Warrior doing better with Confusion than Mesmer is wrong.

Why is it wrong? Engineer has more access naturally to confusion than a mesmer.

lol

I quite enjoy these runes on my elementalist. It’s nice having confusion at my disposal now too.

I’ve seen Nikes on a poster before and they are pretty amazing. :P

I use them and hope they are still useful enough once nerfed.

Conncept.7638:

You’re also getting a 33% buff to base initiative gain. It comes out to just about even, except now you don’t have to spend any traits. As to whether or not this will be a buff or nerf in the end, no telling until it goes live.

Sure. I have a D/D super unicorn and the patchnotes they showed were nothing but buffs to my no-stealth-at-all playstyle on thief. I run a Thief TANK . A big ol’ Norn Acrobatics-THUG.

And you are seriously the posterboy for the problem with the thief class and gaming at large.

I have no kitten idea what you are talking about, and since I know you have no idea how I play, I know you don’t know what you’re talking about either . I didn’t make a judgment call about the changes, I just thought it was amusing that every problem listed was on the Dev’s known hit list. I basically said “Yes, and the Devs agree with you” without any other comment, so rein it in, eh?

How about you people NOT use skills while you have confusion on. Better yet, cure it or dodge it.

You already got what you want with this Casual Gamer crap, all you have to do is press a freaking button or DON’T.

I hope you won’t send thief’s pistol/pistol condition build to grave, because the only reason anybody plays double pistol are these runes.

@up
Only bad players or players with many long channeling skills allow to apply +20 stacks to them. There are fights you might not win, because your opponent knows what are you doing (stability please), forcing you to retreat. Not to mention, they can simply run away from you, because you deal almost no damage while they flee.

Dragsooth.4071:

How about you people NOT use skills while you have confusion on. Better yet, cure it or dodge it.

You already got what you want with this Casual Gamer crap, all you have to do is press a freaking button or DON’T.

Then you’ll just stand there taking damage, because you’ll have confusion permanently.

You hit them: get confused.
They rupt you: get confused.

they dish out damage, you stand still otherwise you’ll get confused.

Its ridiculous, thieves get to the point of only autoattacking with pistols and stealth after getting hit.The only class i faced that never used this runes were guardians.

This runes need to be nerfed to oblivion.

Josh Davis.6015:

Just wanted to pop in and say we haven’t forgotten about this. The good news is the change should be coming sooner than later.

Thanks for your patience.

Great, this was really necessary

Dagins.5163:

I hope you won’t send thief’s pistol/pistol condition build to grave, because the only reason anybody plays double pistol are these runes.

You are incorrect, sir.

@TeamBattleAxe.3901
Measurement error.

Dragsooth.4071:

How about you people NOT use skills while you have confusion on. Better yet, cure it or dodge it.

You already got what you want with this Casual Gamer crap, all you have to do is press a freaking button or DON’T.

That argument didnt work for mesmers and they couldnt get that many stacks as easily as some classes can now.

sigh That’s really all I can say about this. Just change the ICD and let this end already.

nicknamenick.2437:

bravoart.5308:

Apparently everyone forgot about Sigils of Generosity and Sigil of Purity.

Counters to this are already in the game, but everyone want to nerf stuff instead of fight against the meta.

Great job guys, worst game community 2013.

10 sec ICD for both sigils…
Rune of perplexity got ZERO ICD.. so you re-apply 25 stacks in 2-3sec after its been removed…

Exactly.
and, even with close to 95% crit chance, on average you’d have to trigger confusion twice to get the sigil to proc (not to mention giving your opponent more opportunities to interrupt in doing so).

[it’d be nice if Purity worked differently, eg on wep-swap]

Why 8 seconds instead of 10?

Thank You.

Josh Davis.6015:

The 6/6 bonus on Runes of Perplexity now have a 8 second cooldown. This was excluded from the patch notes, but we’re in the process of getting them added.

Thought you guys would like to know.

Do the +Confusion Duration Boni apply correctly now as well?

Why 8 and not 15?