Guild Wars 2

Yes.

Though I think this alone wont be enough by far to revive WvW, at this point we’ll need some huge changes in development and especially in the attitude the developers take.

Yes.

Though I think this alone wont be enough by far to revive WvW, at this point we’ll need some huge changes in development and especially in the attitude the developers take.

Thanks all for signing up in this thread!
Today at reset on Far Shiverpeaks(EU) there was instant 60+ queue on EB and no queue on the desert maps, and the que in eb grew bigger but no queue during the whole evening on the other borders. Thats enough proof for me.

Yes please give us back the old maps.

do you guys know why the desert bl looks so dry?
cuz it has no water. I mean yeah near garrison but that doesn’t count.

anet is being lazy about wvw & underwater skill balance. cuz they got work to do with so called an exp pack “HoT” .
so can’t balance ? at least add underwater finisher combo kitten . <-problem solved
oh wait they don’t have technology for chair sitting animation yet don’t even think about ua finisher.

they are so lazy they added 2 uw weapon slot on revenant but single weapon to use, what a waste…

I don’t need the old map back but whoever designed the desert bl without water didn’t do a good thing & added too many jump pads & long walks instead.

in order to go to higher ground you have to jump on 6 small pads that throws you 5ft only every time. pff add stairs instead or make that 30ft jump using 2 -3 jump pads…

main thing that is bad with the desert bl is that too much walking & jumping instead of getting a few fights .

I miss bay fights ..

Yes.

The new BL’s take forever to get around, no matter if it is walking, jumping, falling to your death off a cliff, pressing wrong buttons and getting into combat with the thousand pve mobs…. so yea I want the old BL’s back. Simple is good, simple is fun, walking across a desert dying to see a cafe so you can have a coffee… is not fun O_O

The sad truth is that ANET isn’t going to listen to anyone here. They made a horrible new map and know it, but can’t just switch it off.

The only thing they can do is continue with the WvW redesign without player involvement. Once they mess that up, no one will be talking about the bad map anymore.

I want both – old and the new ones

Yes I want the old WvW maps back

erKo.9586:

Thanks all for signing up in this thread!
Today at reset on Far Shiverpeaks(EU) there was instant 60+ queue on EB and no queue on the desert maps, and the que in eb grew bigger but no queue during the whole evening on the other borders. Thats enough proof for me.

We were already told the maps would come back…

They are probably upgrading AB, EB and making a snow map… I’m pretty sure we will have 4 unique maps to play on, and rotations will happen based on color placement for ranking… See how eotm does it?

Again, it was clearly said before. The devs also have all the statistics too so I’m sure they will change up the DB for the big update.

The voting won’t progress things faster, and at this point the old maps would be outdated for what they have in store. It’s probably best not to put them back in at this point because they will just have to replace them with a different AB anyway.

add me to the list please. I’m sick of taking an hour to get across the kitten map.

Swagger.1459:

erKo.9586:

Thanks all for signing up in this thread!
Today at reset on Far Shiverpeaks(EU) there was instant 60+ queue on EB and no queue on the desert maps, and the que in eb grew bigger but no queue during the whole evening on the other borders. Thats enough proof for me.

We were already told the maps would come back…

They are probably upgrading AB, EB and making a snow map… I’m pretty sure we will have 4 unique maps to play on, and rotations will happen based on color placement for ranking… See how eotm does it?

Again, it was clearly said before. The devs also have all the statistics too so I’m sure they will change up the DB for the big update.

The voting won’t progress things faster, and at this point the old maps would be outdated for what they have in store. It’s probably best not to put them back in at this point because they will just have to replace them with a different AB anyway.

They are ignoring the numbers in hopes they can get PVE players into WvW, not understanding that PVE players don;t like PVP game modes and the ones that do are already plaything PvP and WvW. the rest of them rage quit if another player kills them.

“Their progress” IS the problem, and thus why they need players to tell them what they think about the direction they are taking it. The DBL’s are going the wrong direction all together IS the issue. WVW map design should be centered around keeping players engaged in challenging, fun, strategic PvP game play the majority of the time they are on a map. IF the core map design is not built around that very simple concept, it is a bad map. They built these maps to be the opposite. They cannot be " tweaked" to fix that is the issue. They actually have to take them back to the drawing board because:

1) They are too big, you spend more time running around wasting time instead of in PvP action. If you only have limited time to play, you do not want to spend it running around trying to find the action, you want to spend it IN the action. Think more like Courtyard, less like PVE zones for map design.

2)Horrible terrain for PvP. too many escape routes, fall damage, and environmental gimmicky BS. Needs a flatter, less bouncy gimmicky map to allow for players to stay in the PVP action rather than avoiding it or trying to get back to where the fight was only to find it over by the time you get to it. Make direct routs instead of trying to run players all over the place. It does not make fighting more challenging, fun or strategic to just make it take longer for players to get to the action due to terrain and environmental issues. That is just lame, not fun. They need to drop the idea of incorporating the battlefield into a jumping puzzle. The vast majority of players do not enjoy dying from fall damage more than they die from actual layers. That makes it a bad battlefield when the majority of players avoid it for that reason.

3) lack of strategic placement of anything.. They did not put much thought into actually making the objectives count for strategic positioning, When you took towers and keeps on Alpine maps, you had a reason to take or defend them due to the targets that could be hit from them and the advantage they would give on the battlefield. That w as lost with the design of these maps all together. It appears that was not even a thought when designing them.

4) Remove the PvE elements and Environmental Gimmicks from WvW.. We need less PVE in WvW and more PvP. 99.9% of GW is PVE, they can allow WvW players to have their tiny little corner without adding more PvE champs in there. Get rid of them and use the extra resources it frees up to allow more players in a zone without lagging instead. Making rocks come out of the ground does not enhance the match, it just irritates the players so they move somewhere that doesn’t happen to fight instead. If players are leaving an area to fight somewhere else instead because they think that zone sucks, that zones is not a well designed PvP zone.

5)Lack of water combat in WvW. At least on Alpine maps you were able to have underwater combat fights inside bay, south of keep and at SW camps…. Now WvW is lacking in Underwater combat due to shifting their focus to bouncy run away and avoid combat that players overwhelmingly do not enjoy.

What Anet fails to realize is that if they stay on track with their " progress" they will Kill WvW for good.. Continuing with the direction and theme of changes that they applied with HoT by replacing EBG with one of these garbage PvE maps will keep players out of WvW all together. They are currently huddled up on EBG because they hate the DBL maps so much that is their only retreat to enjoy WvW anymore. Remove that and you will lose those remaining players from the game.

Sure you will have the tiny percentage left that doesn’t care about the maps and doesn’t care if they play with friends.. but hat is what you call a dead game mode at that point.

They need to act, its been way too long. Its not working, its never going to work and we can’t afford more people leaving WvW.

lil devils x.6071:

Swagger.1459:

erKo.9586:

Thanks all for signing up in this thread!
Today at reset on Far Shiverpeaks(EU) there was instant 60+ queue on EB and no queue on the desert maps, and the que in eb grew bigger but no queue during the whole evening on the other borders. Thats enough proof for me.

We were already told the maps would come back…

They are probably upgrading AB, EB and making a snow map… I’m pretty sure we will have 4 unique maps to play on, and rotations will happen based on color placement for ranking… See how eotm does it?

Again, it was clearly said before. The devs also have all the statistics too so I’m sure they will change up the DB for the big update.

The voting won’t progress things faster, and at this point the old maps would be outdated for what they have in store. It’s probably best not to put them back in at this point because they will just have to replace them with a different AB anyway.

They are ignoring the numbers in hopes they can get PVE players into WvW, not understanding that PVE players don;t like PVP game modes and the ones that do are already plaything PvP and WvW. the rest of them rage quit if another player kills them.

“Their progress” IS the problem, and thus why they need players to tell them what they think about the direction they are taking it. The DBL’s are going the wrong direction all together IS the issue. WVW map design should be centered around keeping players engaged in challenging, fun, strategic PvP game play the majority of the time they are on a map. IF the core map design is not built around that very simple concept, it is a bad map. They built these maps to be the opposite. They cannot be " tweaked" to fix that is the issue. They actually have to take them back to the drawing board because:

1) They are too big, you spend more time running around wasting time instead of in PvP action. If you only have limited time to play, you do not want to spend it running around trying to find the action, you want to spend it IN the action. Think more like Courtyard, less like PVE zones for map design.

2)Horrible terrain for PvP. too many escape routes, fall damage, and environmental gimmicky BS. Needs a flatter, less bouncy gimmicky map to allow for players to stay in the PVP action rather than avoiding it or trying to get back to where the fight was only to find it over by the time you get to it. Make direct routs instead of trying to run players all over the place. It does not make fighting more challenging, fun or strategic to just make it take longer for players to get to the action due to terrain and environmental issues. That is just lame, not fun. They need to drop the idea of incorporating the battlefield into a jumping puzzle. The vast majority of players do not enjoy dying from fall damage more than they die from actual layers. That makes it a bad battlefield when the majority of players avoid it for that reason.

3) lack of strategic placement of anything.. They did not put much thought into actually making the objectives count for strategic positioning, When you took towers and keeps on Alpine maps, you had a reason to take or defend them due to the targets that could be hit from them and the advantage they would give on the battlefield. That w as lost with the design of these maps all together. It appears that was not even a thought when designing them.

4) Remove the PvE elements and Environmental Gimmicks from WvW.. We need less PVE in WvW and more PvP. 99.9% of GW is PVE, they can allow WvW players to have their tiny little corner without adding more PvE champs in there. Get rid of them and use the extra resources it frees up to allow more players in a zone without lagging instead. Making rocks come out of the ground does not enhance the match, it just irritates the players so they move somewhere that doesn’t happen to fight instead. If players are leaving an area to fight somewhere else instead because they think that zone sucks, that zones is not a well designed PvP zone.

5)Lack of water combat in WvW. At least on Alpine maps you were able to have underwater combat fights inside bay, south of keep and at SW camps…. Now WvW is lacking in Underwater combat due to shifting their focus to bouncy run away and avoid combat that players overwhelmingly do not enjoy.

What Anet fails to realize is that if they stay on track with their " progress" they will Kill WvW for good.. Continuing with the direction and theme of changes that they applied with HoT by replacing EBG with one of these garbage PvE maps will keep players out of WvW all together. They are currently huddled up on EBG because they hate the DBL maps so much that is their only retreat to enjoy WvW anymore. Remove that and you will lose those remaining players from the game.

Sure you will have the tiny percentage left that doesn’t care about the maps and doesn’t care if they play with friends.. but hat is what you call a dead game mode at that point.

I understand the frustrations.

I’m sure the devs are aware at this point given the feedback and stats. Just a waiting game at this point, and the devs know the players frustration because of that post by the devs saying “looks like we can talk about wvw so we will have some info”…

They know, but the old maps are not going to be dropped in just to take them out in whatever months at this point.

Edit- devs want all sorts of players in wvw, they just did it the wrong way with map completion stuff before. Once incentives are in place then everybody can find what appeals or encourages them to play. More players the better, but we all have to wait to find out.

Swagger.1459:

lil devils x.6071:

Swagger.1459:

erKo.9586:

Thanks all for signing up in this thread!
Today at reset on Far Shiverpeaks(EU) there was instant 60+ queue on EB and no queue on the desert maps, and the que in eb grew bigger but no queue during the whole evening on the other borders. Thats enough proof for me.

We were already told the maps would come back…

They are probably upgrading AB, EB and making a snow map… I’m pretty sure we will have 4 unique maps to play on, and rotations will happen based on color placement for ranking… See how eotm does it?

Again, it was clearly said before. The devs also have all the statistics too so I’m sure they will change up the DB for the big update.

The voting won’t progress things faster, and at this point the old maps would be outdated for what they have in store. It’s probably best not to put them back in at this point because they will just have to replace them with a different AB anyway.

They are ignoring the numbers in hopes they can get PVE players into WvW, not understanding that PVE players don;t like PVP game modes and the ones that do are already plaything PvP and WvW. the rest of them rage quit if another player kills them.

“Their progress” IS the problem, and thus why they need players to tell them what they think about the direction they are taking it. The DBL’s are going the wrong direction all together IS the issue. WVW map design should be centered around keeping players engaged in challenging, fun, strategic PvP game play the majority of the time they are on a map. IF the core map design is not built around that very simple concept, it is a bad map. They built these maps to be the opposite. They cannot be " tweaked" to fix that is the issue. They actually have to take them back to the drawing board because:

1) They are too big, you spend more time running around wasting time instead of in PvP action. If you only have limited time to play, you do not want to spend it running around trying to find the action, you want to spend it IN the action. Think more like Courtyard, less like PVE zones for map design.

2)Horrible terrain for PvP. too many escape routes, fall damage, and environmental gimmicky BS. Needs a flatter, less bouncy gimmicky map to allow for players to stay in the PVP action rather than avoiding it or trying to get back to where the fight was only to find it over by the time you get to it. Make direct routs instead of trying to run players all over the place. It does not make fighting more challenging, fun or strategic to just make it take longer for players to get to the action due to terrain and environmental issues. That is just lame, not fun. They need to drop the idea of incorporating the battlefield into a jumping puzzle. The vast majority of players do not enjoy dying from fall damage more than they die from actual layers. That makes it a bad battlefield when the majority of players avoid it for that reason.

3) lack of strategic placement of anything.. They did not put much thought into actually making the objectives count for strategic positioning, When you took towers and keeps on Alpine maps, you had a reason to take or defend them due to the targets that could be hit from them and the advantage they would give on the battlefield. That w as lost with the design of these maps all together. It appears that was not even a thought when designing them.

4) Remove the PvE elements and Environmental Gimmicks from WvW.. We need less PVE in WvW and more PvP. 99.9% of GW is PVE, they can allow WvW players to have their tiny little corner without adding more PvE champs in there. Get rid of them and use the extra resources it frees up to allow more players in a zone without lagging instead. Making rocks come out of the ground does not enhance the match, it just irritates the players so they move somewhere that doesn’t happen to fight instead. If players are leaving an area to fight somewhere else instead because they think that zone sucks, that zones is not a well designed PvP zone.

5)Lack of water combat in WvW. At least on Alpine maps you were able to have underwater combat fights inside bay, south of keep and at SW camps…. Now WvW is lacking in Underwater combat due to shifting their focus to bouncy run away and avoid combat that players overwhelmingly do not enjoy.

What Anet fails to realize is that if they stay on track with their " progress" they will Kill WvW for good.. Continuing with the direction and theme of changes that they applied with HoT by replacing EBG with one of these garbage PvE maps will keep players out of WvW all together. They are currently huddled up on EBG because they hate the DBL maps so much that is their only retreat to enjoy WvW anymore. Remove that and you will lose those remaining players from the game.

Sure you will have the tiny percentage left that doesn’t care about the maps and doesn’t care if they play with friends.. but hat is what you call a dead game mode at that point.

I understand the frustrations.

I’m sure the devs are aware at this point given the feedback and stats. Just a waiting game at this point, and the devs know the players frustration because of that post by the devs saying “looks like we can talk about wvw so we will have some info”…

They know, but the old maps are not going to be dropped in just to take them out in whatever months at this point.

Being aware and acting on that awareness are two different things. Until we see new WvW team replacing the one we have it isn’t going to change. They said they were keeping the alpine maps in the rotation. The best thing they could do now to save the mode would be " rotate" back to alpine, leave it stuck there a bit while making new maps ( it doesn’t take a year to do that btw they just chose to make it so).

They should issue a statement stating they are aware of the issues and are trying to bring WvW players the maps they deserve, and that would be better than staying the course of action to replace EBG to try and force players onto the DBLS..

They can choose to save this or scrap it, and if they keep doing what they are doing.. it is all downhill from here. They very well could step up and say " we are going to make this right" but if they fail to do that, I am not sure it will be salvageable after they keep going the wrong way with it. Our guild used to run a solid 40+ core the majority of our raids.. we are down to 10 and under due to HoT, and those left are apathetic about Anet actually doing anything, just are holding out hope things get fixed. It isn’t just us either.. Everyone is playing other games / not interested in playing WvW in it’s current state and have lost hope that Anet will fix it.

Edit- devs want all sorts of players in wvw, they just did it the wrong way with map completion stuff before. Once incentives are in place then everybody can find what appeals or encourages them to play. More players the better, but we all have to wait to find out.

Wanting all sorts of players doesn’t work in PvP game modes. Many games tried it. PvE players view WvW like the open world PvP games they refuse to play as it is. You either like to fight other players or you don’t. Some just don’t. Adding PvE to a PvP zone doesn’t change that, it just makes the players who want to PvP leave to a game that focuses on PvP instead.

lil devils x.6071:

Swagger.1459:

lil devils x.6071:

Swagger.1459:

erKo.9586:

Thanks all for signing up in this thread!
Today at reset on Far Shiverpeaks(EU) there was instant 60+ queue on EB and no queue on the desert maps, and the que in eb grew bigger but no queue during the whole evening on the other borders. Thats enough proof for me.

We were already told the maps would come back…

They are probably upgrading AB, EB and making a snow map… I’m pretty sure we will have 4 unique maps to play on, and rotations will happen based on color placement for ranking… See how eotm does it?

Again, it was clearly said before. The devs also have all the statistics too so I’m sure they will change up the DB for the big update.

The voting won’t progress things faster, and at this point the old maps would be outdated for what they have in store. It’s probably best not to put them back in at this point because they will just have to replace them with a different AB anyway.

They are ignoring the numbers in hopes they can get PVE players into WvW, not understanding that PVE players don;t like PVP game modes and the ones that do are already plaything PvP and WvW. the rest of them rage quit if another player kills them.

“Their progress” IS the problem, and thus why they need players to tell them what they think about the direction they are taking it. The DBL’s are going the wrong direction all together IS the issue. WVW map design should be centered around keeping players engaged in challenging, fun, strategic PvP game play the majority of the time they are on a map. IF the core map design is not built around that very simple concept, it is a bad map. They built these maps to be the opposite. They cannot be " tweaked" to fix that is the issue. They actually have to take them back to the drawing board because:

1) They are too big, you spend more time running around wasting time instead of in PvP action. If you only have limited time to play, you do not want to spend it running around trying to find the action, you want to spend it IN the action. Think more like Courtyard, less like PVE zones for map design.

2)Horrible terrain for PvP. too many escape routes, fall damage, and environmental gimmicky BS. Needs a flatter, less bouncy gimmicky map to allow for players to stay in the PVP action rather than avoiding it or trying to get back to where the fight was only to find it over by the time you get to it. Make direct routs instead of trying to run players all over the place. It does not make fighting more challenging, fun or strategic to just make it take longer for players to get to the action due to terrain and environmental issues. That is just lame, not fun. They need to drop the idea of incorporating the battlefield into a jumping puzzle. The vast majority of players do not enjoy dying from fall damage more than they die from actual layers. That makes it a bad battlefield when the majority of players avoid it for that reason.

3) lack of strategic placement of anything.. They did not put much thought into actually making the objectives count for strategic positioning, When you took towers and keeps on Alpine maps, you had a reason to take or defend them due to the targets that could be hit from them and the advantage they would give on the battlefield. That w as lost with the design of these maps all together. It appears that was not even a thought when designing them.

4) Remove the PvE elements and Environmental Gimmicks from WvW.. We need less PVE in WvW and more PvP. 99.9% of GW is PVE, they can allow WvW players to have their tiny little corner without adding more PvE champs in there. Get rid of them and use the extra resources it frees up to allow more players in a zone without lagging instead. Making rocks come out of the ground does not enhance the match, it just irritates the players so they move somewhere that doesn’t happen to fight instead. If players are leaving an area to fight somewhere else instead because they think that zone sucks, that zones is not a well designed PvP zone.

5)Lack of water combat in WvW. At least on Alpine maps you were able to have underwater combat fights inside bay, south of keep and at SW camps…. Now WvW is lacking in Underwater combat due to shifting their focus to bouncy run away and avoid combat that players overwhelmingly do not enjoy.

What Anet fails to realize is that if they stay on track with their " progress" they will Kill WvW for good.. Continuing with the direction and theme of changes that they applied with HoT by replacing EBG with one of these garbage PvE maps will keep players out of WvW all together. They are currently huddled up on EBG because they hate the DBL maps so much that is their only retreat to enjoy WvW anymore. Remove that and you will lose those remaining players from the game.

Sure you will have the tiny percentage left that doesn’t care about the maps and doesn’t care if they play with friends.. but hat is what you call a dead game mode at that point.

I understand the frustrations.

I’m sure the devs are aware at this point given the feedback and stats. Just a waiting game at this point, and the devs know the players frustration because of that post by the devs saying “looks like we can talk about wvw so we will have some info”…

They know, but the old maps are not going to be dropped in just to take them out in whatever months at this point.

Being aware and acting on that awareness are two different things. Until we see new WvW team replacing the one we have it isn’t going to change. They said they were keeping the alpine maps in the rotation. The best thing they could do now to save the mode would be " rotate" back to alpine, leave it stuck there a bit while making new maps ( it doesn’t take a year to do that btw they just chose to make it so).

They should issue a statement stating they are aware of the issues and are trying to bring WvW players the maps they deserve, and that would be better than staying the course of action to replace EBG to try and force players onto the DBLS..

They can choose to save this or scrap it, and if they keep doing what they are doing.. it is all downhill from here. They very well could step up and say " we are going to make this right" but if they fail to do that, I am not sure it will be salvageable after they keep going the wrong way with it. Our guild used to run a solid 40+ core the majority of our raids.. we are down to 10 and under due to HoT. It isn’t just us either.. Everyone is playing other games / not interested in playing WvW in it’s current state and have lost hope that Anet will fix it.

I’m pretty sure the devs had a wake up call after last tournament, hence why they have been working on stuff already for a year. Also, the devs need to compete with a game like CU coming out, so GW2 can keep and attract more players.

The devs know the wvw gas tank is running on fumes at this point, but it’s just a waiting game until things are done. Can’t make them work faster, but it’s reassuring that they have been up to something and that all engineers are coding away as we speak.

I don’t think the devs would ever come here and say they are happy with the current state of wvw either. Big stuff like this hits the pocket books so I’m sure they wished they would have invested sooner.

lil devils x.6071:

Edit- devs want all sorts of players in wvw, they just did it the wrong way with map completion stuff before. Once incentives are in place then everybody can find what appeals or encourages them to play. More players the better, but we all have to wait to find out.

Wanting all sorts of players doesn’t work in PvP game modes. Many games tried it. PvE players view WvW like the open world PvP games they refuse to play as it is. You either like to fight other players or you don’t. Some just don’t. Adding PvE to a PvP zone doesn’t change that, it just makes the players who want to PvP leave to a game that focuses on PvP instead.

I’m fully aware, but of course developers want to encourage more players to play different game modes. I never said anything about “adding pve to a pvp zone”, I said incentives. Incentives such as unique personal and guild rewards, some type of universal character progress, alternate progress options… There are a wide range of things to entice players that could be used.

We will just have to see what’s in store for wvw and these maps.

Swagger.1459:

lil devils x.6071:

Swagger.1459:

lil devils x.6071:

Swagger.1459:

erKo.9586:

Thanks all for signing up in this thread!
Today at reset on Far Shiverpeaks(EU) there was instant 60+ queue on EB and no queue on the desert maps, and the que in eb grew bigger but no queue during the whole evening on the other borders. Thats enough proof for me.

We were already told the maps would come back…

They are probably upgrading AB, EB and making a snow map… I’m pretty sure we will have 4 unique maps to play on, and rotations will happen based on color placement for ranking… See how eotm does it?

Again, it was clearly said before. The devs also have all the statistics too so I’m sure they will change up the DB for the big update.

The voting won’t progress things faster, and at this point the old maps would be outdated for what they have in store. It’s probably best not to put them back in at this point because they will just have to replace them with a different AB anyway.

They are ignoring the numbers in hopes they can get PVE players into WvW, not understanding that PVE players don;t like PVP game modes and the ones that do are already plaything PvP and WvW. the rest of them rage quit if another player kills them.

“Their progress” IS the problem, and thus why they need players to tell them what they think about the direction they are taking it. The DBL’s are going the wrong direction all together IS the issue. WVW map design should be centered around keeping players engaged in challenging, fun, strategic PvP game play the majority of the time they are on a map. IF the core map design is not built around that very simple concept, it is a bad map. They built these maps to be the opposite. They cannot be " tweaked" to fix that is the issue. They actually have to take them back to the drawing board because:

1) They are too big, you spend more time running around wasting time instead of in PvP action. If you only have limited time to play, you do not want to spend it running around trying to find the action, you want to spend it IN the action. Think more like Courtyard, less like PVE zones for map design.

2)Horrible terrain for PvP. too many escape routes, fall damage, and environmental gimmicky BS. Needs a flatter, less bouncy gimmicky map to allow for players to stay in the PVP action rather than avoiding it or trying to get back to where the fight was only to find it over by the time you get to it. Make direct routs instead of trying to run players all over the place. It does not make fighting more challenging, fun or strategic to just make it take longer for players to get to the action due to terrain and environmental issues. That is just lame, not fun. They need to drop the idea of incorporating the battlefield into a jumping puzzle. The vast majority of players do not enjoy dying from fall damage more than they die from actual layers. That makes it a bad battlefield when the majority of players avoid it for that reason.

3) lack of strategic placement of anything.. They did not put much thought into actually making the objectives count for strategic positioning, When you took towers and keeps on Alpine maps, you had a reason to take or defend them due to the targets that could be hit from them and the advantage they would give on the battlefield. That w as lost with the design of these maps all together. It appears that was not even a thought when designing them.

4) Remove the PvE elements and Environmental Gimmicks from WvW.. We need less PVE in WvW and more PvP. 99.9% of GW is PVE, they can allow WvW players to have their tiny little corner without adding more PvE champs in there. Get rid of them and use the extra resources it frees up to allow more players in a zone without lagging instead. Making rocks come out of the ground does not enhance the match, it just irritates the players so they move somewhere that doesn’t happen to fight instead. If players are leaving an area to fight somewhere else instead because they think that zone sucks, that zones is not a well designed PvP zone.

5)Lack of water combat in WvW. At least on Alpine maps you were able to have underwater combat fights inside bay, south of keep and at SW camps…. Now WvW is lacking in Underwater combat due to shifting their focus to bouncy run away and avoid combat that players overwhelmingly do not enjoy.

What Anet fails to realize is that if they stay on track with their " progress" they will Kill WvW for good.. Continuing with the direction and theme of changes that they applied with HoT by replacing EBG with one of these garbage PvE maps will keep players out of WvW all together. They are currently huddled up on EBG because they hate the DBL maps so much that is their only retreat to enjoy WvW anymore. Remove that and you will lose those remaining players from the game.

Sure you will have the tiny percentage left that doesn’t care about the maps and doesn’t care if they play with friends.. but hat is what you call a dead game mode at that point.

I understand the frustrations.

I’m sure the devs are aware at this point given the feedback and stats. Just a waiting game at this point, and the devs know the players frustration because of that post by the devs saying “looks like we can talk about wvw so we will have some info”…

They know, but the old maps are not going to be dropped in just to take them out in whatever months at this point.

Being aware and acting on that awareness are two different things. Until we see new WvW team replacing the one we have it isn’t going to change. They said they were keeping the alpine maps in the rotation. The best thing they could do now to save the mode would be " rotate" back to alpine, leave it stuck there a bit while making new maps ( it doesn’t take a year to do that btw they just chose to make it so).

They should issue a statement stating they are aware of the issues and are trying to bring WvW players the maps they deserve, and that would be better than staying the course of action to replace EBG to try and force players onto the DBLS..

They can choose to save this or scrap it, and if they keep doing what they are doing.. it is all downhill from here. They very well could step up and say " we are going to make this right" but if they fail to do that, I am not sure it will be salvageable after they keep going the wrong way with it. Our guild used to run a solid 40+ core the majority of our raids.. we are down to 10 and under due to HoT. It isn’t just us either.. Everyone is playing other games / not interested in playing WvW in it’s current state and have lost hope that Anet will fix it.

I’m pretty sure the devs had a wake up call after last tournament, hence why they have been working on stuff already for a year. Also, the devs need to compete with a game like CU coming out, so GW2 can keep and attract more players.

The devs know the wvw gas tank is running on fumes at this point, but it’s just waiting time. Can’t make them work faster, but it’s reassuring that they have been up to something and that all engineers are coding away as we speak.

I don’t think the devs would ever come here and say they are happy with the current state of wvw either. Big stuff like this hits the pocket books so I’m sure they wished they would have invested sooner.

lil devils x.6071:

Edit- devs want all sorts of players in wvw, they just did it the wrong way with map completion stuff before. Once incentives are in place then everybody can find what appeals or encourages them to play. More players the better, but we all have to wait to find out.

Wanting all sorts of players doesn’t work in PvP game modes. Many games tried it. PvE players view WvW like the open world PvP games they refuse to play as it is. You either like to fight other players or you don’t. Some just don’t. Adding PvE to a PvP zone doesn’t change that, it just makes the players who want to PvP leave to a game that focuses on PvP instead.

I’m fully aware, but of course developers want to encourage more players to play different game modes. I never said anything about “adding pve to a pvp zone”, I said incentives. Incentives such as unique personal and guild rewards, some type of universal character progress, alternate progress options… There are a wide range of things to entice players that could be used.

We will just have to see what’s in store for wvw and these maps.

Their focus isn’t even on WvW, it is on trying to compete with MOBAas, which even Blizzard could not make WoW do. That failed terribly. The ONLY reason this takes so long is because WvW is not where they are applying their resources. You can make things happen at the pace you dedicate the resources and man hours to. The pace for WvW is due to lack of " care" on their part moreso than anything. If they wished to dedicate the resources they are allocating to PvE and PvP updates, WvW would have been fixed long ago. The problem is their idea of " fixing it" will kill the game mode entirely.

lil devils x.6071:

Swagger.1459:

lil devils x.6071:

Swagger.1459:

lil devils x.6071:

Swagger.1459:

erKo.9586:

Thanks all for signing up in this thread!
Today at reset on Far Shiverpeaks(EU) there was instant 60+ queue on EB and no queue on the desert maps, and the que in eb grew bigger but no queue during the whole evening on the other borders. Thats enough proof for me.

We were already told the maps would come back…

They are probably upgrading AB, EB and making a snow map… I’m pretty sure we will have 4 unique maps to play on, and rotations will happen based on color placement for ranking… See how eotm does it?

Again, it was clearly said before. The devs also have all the statistics too so I’m sure they will change up the DB for the big update.

The voting won’t progress things faster, and at this point the old maps would be outdated for what they have in store. It’s probably best not to put them back in at this point because they will just have to replace them with a different AB anyway.

They are ignoring the numbers in hopes they can get PVE players into WvW, not understanding that PVE players don;t like PVP game modes and the ones that do are already plaything PvP and WvW. the rest of them rage quit if another player kills them.

“Their progress” IS the problem, and thus why they need players to tell them what they think about the direction they are taking it. The DBL’s are going the wrong direction all together IS the issue. WVW map design should be centered around keeping players engaged in challenging, fun, strategic PvP game play the majority of the time they are on a map. IF the core map design is not built around that very simple concept, it is a bad map. They built these maps to be the opposite. They cannot be " tweaked" to fix that is the issue. They actually have to take them back to the drawing board because:

1) They are too big, you spend more time running around wasting time instead of in PvP action. If you only have limited time to play, you do not want to spend it running around trying to find the action, you want to spend it IN the action. Think more like Courtyard, less like PVE zones for map design.

2)Horrible terrain for PvP. too many escape routes, fall damage, and environmental gimmicky BS. Needs a flatter, less bouncy gimmicky map to allow for players to stay in the PVP action rather than avoiding it or trying to get back to where the fight was only to find it over by the time you get to it. Make direct routs instead of trying to run players all over the place. It does not make fighting more challenging, fun or strategic to just make it take longer for players to get to the action due to terrain and environmental issues. That is just lame, not fun. They need to drop the idea of incorporating the battlefield into a jumping puzzle. The vast majority of players do not enjoy dying from fall damage more than they die from actual layers. That makes it a bad battlefield when the majority of players avoid it for that reason.

3) lack of strategic placement of anything.. They did not put much thought into actually making the objectives count for strategic positioning, When you took towers and keeps on Alpine maps, you had a reason to take or defend them due to the targets that could be hit from them and the advantage they would give on the battlefield. That w as lost with the design of these maps all together. It appears that was not even a thought when designing them.

4) Remove the PvE elements and Environmental Gimmicks from WvW.. We need less PVE in WvW and more PvP. 99.9% of GW is PVE, they can allow WvW players to have their tiny little corner without adding more PvE champs in there. Get rid of them and use the extra resources it frees up to allow more players in a zone without lagging instead. Making rocks come out of the ground does not enhance the match, it just irritates the players so they move somewhere that doesn’t happen to fight instead. If players are leaving an area to fight somewhere else instead because they think that zone sucks, that zones is not a well designed PvP zone.

5)Lack of water combat in WvW. At least on Alpine maps you were able to have underwater combat fights inside bay, south of keep and at SW camps…. Now WvW is lacking in Underwater combat due to shifting their focus to bouncy run away and avoid combat that players overwhelmingly do not enjoy.

What Anet fails to realize is that if they stay on track with their " progress" they will Kill WvW for good.. Continuing with the direction and theme of changes that they applied with HoT by replacing EBG with one of these garbage PvE maps will keep players out of WvW all together. They are currently huddled up on EBG because they hate the DBL maps so much that is their only retreat to enjoy WvW anymore. Remove that and you will lose those remaining players from the game.

Sure you will have the tiny percentage left that doesn’t care about the maps and doesn’t care if they play with friends.. but hat is what you call a dead game mode at that point.

I understand the frustrations.

I’m sure the devs are aware at this point given the feedback and stats. Just a waiting game at this point, and the devs know the players frustration because of that post by the devs saying “looks like we can talk about wvw so we will have some info”…

They know, but the old maps are not going to be dropped in just to take them out in whatever months at this point.

Being aware and acting on that awareness are two different things. Until we see new WvW team replacing the one we have it isn’t going to change. They said they were keeping the alpine maps in the rotation. The best thing they could do now to save the mode would be " rotate" back to alpine, leave it stuck there a bit while making new maps ( it doesn’t take a year to do that btw they just chose to make it so).

They should issue a statement stating they are aware of the issues and are trying to bring WvW players the maps they deserve, and that would be better than staying the course of action to replace EBG to try and force players onto the DBLS..

They can choose to save this or scrap it, and if they keep doing what they are doing.. it is all downhill from here. They very well could step up and say " we are going to make this right" but if they fail to do that, I am not sure it will be salvageable after they keep going the wrong way with it. Our guild used to run a solid 40+ core the majority of our raids.. we are down to 10 and under due to HoT. It isn’t just us either.. Everyone is playing other games / not interested in playing WvW in it’s current state and have lost hope that Anet will fix it.

I’m pretty sure the devs had a wake up call after last tournament, hence why they have been working on stuff already for a year. Also, the devs need to compete with a game like CU coming out, so GW2 can keep and attract more players.

The devs know the wvw gas tank is running on fumes at this point, but it’s just waiting time. Can’t make them work faster, but it’s reassuring that they have been up to something and that all engineers are coding away as we speak.

I don’t think the devs would ever come here and say they are happy with the current state of wvw either. Big stuff like this hits the pocket books so I’m sure they wished they would have invested sooner.

lil devils x.6071:

Edit- devs want all sorts of players in wvw, they just did it the wrong way with map completion stuff before. Once incentives are in place then everybody can find what appeals or encourages them to play. More players the better, but we all have to wait to find out.

Wanting all sorts of players doesn’t work in PvP game modes. Many games tried it. PvE players view WvW like the open world PvP games they refuse to play as it is. You either like to fight other players or you don’t. Some just don’t. Adding PvE to a PvP zone doesn’t change that, it just makes the players who want to PvP leave to a game that focuses on PvP instead.

I’m fully aware, but of course developers want to encourage more players to play different game modes. I never said anything about “adding pve to a pvp zone”, I said incentives. Incentives such as unique personal and guild rewards, some type of universal character progress, alternate progress options… There are a wide range of things to entice players that could be used.

We will just have to see what’s in store for wvw and these maps.

Their focus isn’t even on WvW, it is on trying to compete with MOBAas, which even Blizzard could not make WoW do. That failed terribly. The ONLY reason this takes so long is because WvW is not where hey are applying their resources. You can make things happen at the pace you dedicate the resources and man hours to. The pace for WvW is due to lack of " care" on their part moreso than anything. If they wished to dedicate the resources they are allocating to PvE and PvP updates, WvW would have been fixed long ago. The problem is their idea of " fixing it" will kill the game mode entirely.

Their current focus is on wvw.

Only moba can compete with moba, hence why ncsoft is working on two of them.

Of course resources were spread out, some to the year long wvw development and much more to the expansion.

You are kinda preaching to the choir, and I’m aware of what you are saying. Point is that there is going to be an update this year so the devs are not just going to throw in the old version of alpine back in at this point just to take it back out again. It’s at a point where the alpine map alone will not have the desired result of pulling in more players like you think. Players are tired of the same old at this point and wvw needs the “super secret” update to make anything substantial happen.

Honestly, if the devs switched maps today then most players wouldn’t really care now. You’d just have whatever die hards left on the maps and not much of anyone else. You’d still have the population disparities. You’d still have the same “zero” reward system. You’d still not have tournaments… It would just be wvw with the old alpine and same low population and interest level.

Swagger.1459:

lil devils x.6071:

Swagger.1459:

lil devils x.6071:

Swagger.1459:

lil devils x.6071:

Swagger.1459:

erKo.9586:

Thanks all for signing up in this thread!
Today at reset on Far Shiverpeaks(EU) there was instant 60+ queue on EB and no queue on the desert maps, and the que in eb grew bigger but no queue during the whole evening on the other borders. Thats enough proof for me.

We were already told the maps would come back…

They are probably upgrading AB, EB and making a snow map… I’m pretty sure we will have 4 unique maps to play on, and rotations will happen based on color placement for ranking… See how eotm does it?

Again, it was clearly said before. The devs also have all the statistics too so I’m sure they will change up the DB for the big update.

The voting won’t progress things faster, and at this point the old maps would be outdated for what they have in store. It’s probably best not to put them back in at this point because they will just have to replace them with a different AB anyway.

They are ignoring the numbers in hopes they can get PVE players into WvW, not understanding that PVE players don;t like PVP game modes and the ones that do are already plaything PvP and WvW. the rest of them rage quit if another player kills them.

“Their progress” IS the problem, and thus why they need players to tell them what they think about the direction they are taking it. The DBL’s are going the wrong direction all together IS the issue. WVW map design should be centered around keeping players engaged in challenging, fun, strategic PvP game play the majority of the time they are on a map. IF the core map design is not built around that very simple concept, it is a bad map. They built these maps to be the opposite. They cannot be " tweaked" to fix that is the issue. They actually have to take them back to the drawing board because:

1) They are too big, you spend more time running around wasting time instead of in PvP action. If you only have limited time to play, you do not want to spend it running around trying to find the action, you want to spend it IN the action. Think more like Courtyard, less like PVE zones for map design.

2)Horrible terrain for PvP. too many escape routes, fall damage, and environmental gimmicky BS. Needs a flatter, less bouncy gimmicky map to allow for players to stay in the PVP action rather than avoiding it or trying to get back to where the fight was only to find it over by the time you get to it. Make direct routs instead of trying to run players all over the place. It does not make fighting more challenging, fun or strategic to just make it take longer for players to get to the action due to terrain and environmental issues. That is just lame, not fun. They need to drop the idea of incorporating the battlefield into a jumping puzzle. The vast majority of players do not enjoy dying from fall damage more than they die from actual layers. That makes it a bad battlefield when the majority of players avoid it for that reason.

3) lack of strategic placement of anything.. They did not put much thought into actually making the objectives count for strategic positioning, When you took towers and keeps on Alpine maps, you had a reason to take or defend them due to the targets that could be hit from them and the advantage they would give on the battlefield. That w as lost with the design of these maps all together. It appears that was not even a thought when designing them.

4) Remove the PvE elements and Environmental Gimmicks from WvW.. We need less PVE in WvW and more PvP. 99.9% of GW is PVE, they can allow WvW players to have their tiny little corner without adding more PvE champs in there. Get rid of them and use the extra resources it frees up to allow more players in a zone without lagging instead. Making rocks come out of the ground does not enhance the match, it just irritates the players so they move somewhere that doesn’t happen to fight instead. If players are leaving an area to fight somewhere else instead because they think that zone sucks, that zones is not a well designed PvP zone.

5)Lack of water combat in WvW. At least on Alpine maps you were able to have underwater combat fights inside bay, south of keep and at SW camps…. Now WvW is lacking in Underwater combat due to shifting their focus to bouncy run away and avoid combat that players overwhelmingly do not enjoy.

What Anet fails to realize is that if they stay on track with their " progress" they will Kill WvW for good.. Continuing with the direction and theme of changes that they applied with HoT by replacing EBG with one of these garbage PvE maps will keep players out of WvW all together. They are currently huddled up on EBG because they hate the DBL maps so much that is their only retreat to enjoy WvW anymore. Remove that and you will lose those remaining players from the game.

Sure you will have the tiny percentage left that doesn’t care about the maps and doesn’t care if they play with friends.. but hat is what you call a dead game mode at that point.

I understand the frustrations.

I’m sure the devs are aware at this point given the feedback and stats. Just a waiting game at this point, and the devs know the players frustration because of that post by the devs saying “looks like we can talk about wvw so we will have some info”…

They know, but the old maps are not going to be dropped in just to take them out in whatever months at this point.

Being aware and acting on that awareness are two different things. Until we see new WvW team replacing the one we have it isn’t going to change. They said they were keeping the alpine maps in the rotation. The best thing they could do now to save the mode would be " rotate" back to alpine, leave it stuck there a bit while making new maps ( it doesn’t take a year to do that btw they just chose to make it so).

They should issue a statement stating they are aware of the issues and are trying to bring WvW players the maps they deserve, and that would be better than staying the course of action to replace EBG to try and force players onto the DBLS..

They can choose to save this or scrap it, and if they keep doing what they are doing.. it is all downhill from here. They very well could step up and say " we are going to make this right" but if they fail to do that, I am not sure it will be salvageable after they keep going the wrong way with it. Our guild used to run a solid 40+ core the majority of our raids.. we are down to 10 and under due to HoT. It isn’t just us either.. Everyone is playing other games / not interested in playing WvW in it’s current state and have lost hope that Anet will fix it.

I’m pretty sure the devs had a wake up call after last tournament, hence why they have been working on stuff already for a year. Also, the devs need to compete with a game like CU coming out, so GW2 can keep and attract more players.

The devs know the wvw gas tank is running on fumes at this point, but it’s just waiting time. Can’t make them work faster, but it’s reassuring that they have been up to something and that all engineers are coding away as we speak.

I don’t think the devs would ever come here and say they are happy with the current state of wvw either. Big stuff like this hits the pocket books so I’m sure they wished they would have invested sooner.

lil devils x.6071:

Edit- devs want all sorts of players in wvw, they just did it the wrong way with map completion stuff before. Once incentives are in place then everybody can find what appeals or encourages them to play. More players the better, but we all have to wait to find out.

Wanting all sorts of players doesn’t work in PvP game modes. Many games tried it. PvE players view WvW like the open world PvP games they refuse to play as it is. You either like to fight other players or you don’t. Some just don’t. Adding PvE to a PvP zone doesn’t change that, it just makes the players who want to PvP leave to a game that focuses on PvP instead.

I’m fully aware, but of course developers want to encourage more players to play different game modes. I never said anything about “adding pve to a pvp zone”, I said incentives. Incentives such as unique personal and guild rewards, some type of universal character progress, alternate progress options… There are a wide range of things to entice players that could be used.

We will just have to see what’s in store for wvw and these maps.

Their focus isn’t even on WvW, it is on trying to compete with MOBAas, which even Blizzard could not make WoW do. That failed terribly. The ONLY reason this takes so long is because WvW is not where hey are applying their resources. You can make things happen at the pace you dedicate the resources and man hours to. The pace for WvW is due to lack of " care" on their part moreso than anything. If they wished to dedicate the resources they are allocating to PvE and PvP updates, WvW would have been fixed long ago. The problem is their idea of " fixing it" will kill the game mode entirely.

Their current focus is on wvw.

Only moba can compete with moba, hence why ncsoft is working on two of them.

Of course resources were spread out, some to the year long wvw development and much more to the expansion.

You are kinda preaching to the choir, and I’m aware of what you are saying. Point is that there is going to be an update this year so the devs are not just going to throw in the old version of alpine back in at this point just to take it back out again. It’s at a point where the alpine map alone will not have the desired result of pulling in more players like you think. Players are tired of the same old at this point and wvw needs the “super secret” update to make anything substantial happen.

Honestly, if the devs switched maps today then most players wouldn’t really care now. You’d just have whatever die hards left on the maps and not much of anyone else. You’d still have the population disparities. You’d still have the same “zero” reward system. You’d still not have tournaments… It would just be wvw with the old alpine and same low population and interest level.

LMAO, no, their focus ISN’T on WvW..
Have you been paying attention?
MOBA..
http://www.eslgaming.com/interview/future-guild-wars-2-esports-and-pvp-interview-arenanet-team-1974
http://massivelyop.com/2015/11/27/guild-wars-2-sees-a-bright-future-in-e-sports/
http://massivelyop.com/2015/12/15/guild-wars-2-e-sports-team-ragequits-over-design-meta-technical-issues/
https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/announcing-the-esl-guild-wars-2-pro-league/
http://pro.eslgaming.com/gw2/proleague/

That is where all the resources have been going,…

If they switched maps today ques for EB would drop instantaneously and numbers would increase immediately. THAT is why they will not do it, it will show exactly how bad they wasted money making the DBLs… and could not blame anything else for the issues. No, they would not get pre HoT numbers, players are playing other games now that will not give them another chance since Anet burned that bridge, but it would have a very immediate and overwhelming response none the less. The longer they wait to do so the less of a response it will get simply because more people will have given up entirely on them by then.

lil devils x.6071:

Swagger.1459:

lil devils x.6071:

Swagger.1459:

lil devils x.6071:

Swagger.1459:

lil devils x.6071:

Swagger.1459:

erKo.9586:

Thanks all for signing up in this thread!
Today at reset on Far Shiverpeaks(EU) there was instant 60+ queue on EB and no queue on the desert maps, and the que in eb grew bigger but no queue during the whole evening on the other borders. Thats enough proof for me.

We were already told the maps would come back…

They are probably upgrading AB, EB and making a snow map… I’m pretty sure we will have 4 unique maps to play on, and rotations will happen based on color placement for ranking… See how eotm does it?

Again, it was clearly said before. The devs also have all the statistics too so I’m sure they will change up the DB for the big update.

The voting won’t progress things faster, and at this point the old maps would be outdated for what they have in store. It’s probably best not to put them back in at this point because they will just have to replace them with a different AB anyway.

They are ignoring the numbers in hopes they can get PVE players into WvW, not understanding that PVE players don;t like PVP game modes and the ones that do are already plaything PvP and WvW. the rest of them rage quit if another player kills them.

“Their progress” IS the problem, and thus why they need players to tell them what they think about the direction they are taking it. The DBL’s are going the wrong direction all together IS the issue. WVW map design should be centered around keeping players engaged in challenging, fun, strategic PvP game play the majority of the time they are on a map. IF the core map design is not built around that very simple concept, it is a bad map. They built these maps to be the opposite. They cannot be " tweaked" to fix that is the issue. They actually have to take them back to the drawing board because:

1) They are too big, you spend more time running around wasting time instead of in PvP action. If you only have limited time to play, you do not want to spend it running around trying to find the action, you want to spend it IN the action. Think more like Courtyard, less like PVE zones for map design.

2)Horrible terrain for PvP. too many escape routes, fall damage, and environmental gimmicky BS. Needs a flatter, less bouncy gimmicky map to allow for players to stay in the PVP action rather than avoiding it or trying to get back to where the fight was only to find it over by the time you get to it. Make direct routs instead of trying to run players all over the place. It does not make fighting more challenging, fun or strategic to just make it take longer for players to get to the action due to terrain and environmental issues. That is just lame, not fun. They need to drop the idea of incorporating the battlefield into a jumping puzzle. The vast majority of players do not enjoy dying from fall damage more than they die from actual layers. That makes it a bad battlefield when the majority of players avoid it for that reason.

3) lack of strategic placement of anything.. They did not put much thought into actually making the objectives count for strategic positioning, When you took towers and keeps on Alpine maps, you had a reason to take or defend them due to the targets that could be hit from them and the advantage they would give on the battlefield. That w as lost with the design of these maps all together. It appears that was not even a thought when designing them.

4) Remove the PvE elements and Environmental Gimmicks from WvW.. We need less PVE in WvW and more PvP. 99.9% of GW is PVE, they can allow WvW players to have their tiny little corner without adding more PvE champs in there. Get rid of them and use the extra resources it frees up to allow more players in a zone without lagging instead. Making rocks come out of the ground does not enhance the match, it just irritates the players so they move somewhere that doesn’t happen to fight instead. If players are leaving an area to fight somewhere else instead because they think that zone sucks, that zones is not a well designed PvP zone.

5)Lack of water combat in WvW. At least on Alpine maps you were able to have underwater combat fights inside bay, south of keep and at SW camps…. Now WvW is lacking in Underwater combat due to shifting their focus to bouncy run away and avoid combat that players overwhelmingly do not enjoy.

What Anet fails to realize is that if they stay on track with their " progress" they will Kill WvW for good.. Continuing with the direction and theme of changes that they applied with HoT by replacing EBG with one of these garbage PvE maps will keep players out of WvW all together. They are currently huddled up on EBG because they hate the DBL maps so much that is their only retreat to enjoy WvW anymore. Remove that and you will lose those remaining players from the game.

Sure you will have the tiny percentage left that doesn’t care about the maps and doesn’t care if they play with friends.. but hat is what you call a dead game mode at that point.

I understand the frustrations.

I’m sure the devs are aware at this point given the feedback and stats. Just a waiting game at this point, and the devs know the players frustration because of that post by the devs saying “looks like we can talk about wvw so we will have some info”…

They know, but the old maps are not going to be dropped in just to take them out in whatever months at this point.

Being aware and acting on that awareness are two different things. Until we see new WvW team replacing the one we have it isn’t going to change. They said they were keeping the alpine maps in the rotation. The best thing they could do now to save the mode would be " rotate" back to alpine, leave it stuck there a bit while making new maps ( it doesn’t take a year to do that btw they just chose to make it so).

They should issue a statement stating they are aware of the issues and are trying to bring WvW players the maps they deserve, and that would be better than staying the course of action to replace EBG to try and force players onto the DBLS..

They can choose to save this or scrap it, and if they keep doing what they are doing.. it is all downhill from here. They very well could step up and say " we are going to make this right" but if they fail to do that, I am not sure it will be salvageable after they keep going the wrong way with it. Our guild used to run a solid 40+ core the majority of our raids.. we are down to 10 and under due to HoT. It isn’t just us either.. Everyone is playing other games / not interested in playing WvW in it’s current state and have lost hope that Anet will fix it.

I’m pretty sure the devs had a wake up call after last tournament, hence why they have been working on stuff already for a year. Also, the devs need to compete with a game like CU coming out, so GW2 can keep and attract more players.

The devs know the wvw gas tank is running on fumes at this point, but it’s just waiting time. Can’t make them work faster, but it’s reassuring that they have been up to something and that all engineers are coding away as we speak.

I don’t think the devs would ever come here and say they are happy with the current state of wvw either. Big stuff like this hits the pocket books so I’m sure they wished they would have invested sooner.

lil devils x.6071:

Edit- devs want all sorts of players in wvw, they just did it the wrong way with map completion stuff before. Once incentives are in place then everybody can find what appeals or encourages them to play. More players the better, but we all have to wait to find out.

Wanting all sorts of players doesn’t work in PvP game modes. Many games tried it. PvE players view WvW like the open world PvP games they refuse to play as it is. You either like to fight other players or you don’t. Some just don’t. Adding PvE to a PvP zone doesn’t change that, it just makes the players who want to PvP leave to a game that focuses on PvP instead.

I’m fully aware, but of course developers want to encourage more players to play different game modes. I never said anything about “adding pve to a pvp zone”, I said incentives. Incentives such as unique personal and guild rewards, some type of universal character progress, alternate progress options… There are a wide range of things to entice players that could be used.

We will just have to see what’s in store for wvw and these maps.

Their focus isn’t even on WvW, it is on trying to compete with MOBAas, which even Blizzard could not make WoW do. That failed terribly. The ONLY reason this takes so long is because WvW is not where hey are applying their resources. You can make things happen at the pace you dedicate the resources and man hours to. The pace for WvW is due to lack of " care" on their part moreso than anything. If they wished to dedicate the resources they are allocating to PvE and PvP updates, WvW would have been fixed long ago. The problem is their idea of " fixing it" will kill the game mode entirely.

Their current focus is on wvw.

Only moba can compete with moba, hence why ncsoft is working on two of them.

Of course resources were spread out, some to the year long wvw development and much more to the expansion.

You are kinda preaching to the choir, and I’m aware of what you are saying. Point is that there is going to be an update this year so the devs are not just going to throw in the old version of alpine back in at this point just to take it back out again. It’s at a point where the alpine map alone will not have the desired result of pulling in more players like you think. Players are tired of the same old at this point and wvw needs the “super secret” update to make anything substantial happen.

Honestly, if the devs switched maps today then most players wouldn’t really care now. You’d just have whatever die hards left on the maps and not much of anyone else. You’d still have the population disparities. You’d still have the same “zero” reward system. You’d still not have tournaments… It would just be wvw with the old alpine and same low population and interest level.

LMAO, no, their focus ISN’T on WvW..
Have you been paying attention?
MOBA..
http://www.eslgaming.com/interview/future-guild-wars-2-esports-and-pvp-interview-arenanet-team-1974
http://massivelyop.com/2015/11/27/guild-wars-2-sees-a-bright-future-in-e-sports/
http://massivelyop.com/2015/12/15/guild-wars-2-e-sports-team-ragequits-over-design-meta-technical-issues/
https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/announcing-the-esl-guild-wars-2-pro-league/
http://pro.eslgaming.com/gw2/proleague/

That is where all the resources have been going,…

If they switched maps today ques for EB would drop instantaneously and numbers would increase immediately. THAT is why they will not do it, it will show exactly how bad they wasted money making the DBLs… and could not blame anything else for the issues. No, they would not get pre HoT numbers, players are playing other games now that will not give them another chance since Anet burned that bridge, but it would have a very immediate and overwhelming response none the less. The longer they wait to do so the less of a response it will get simply because more people will have given up entirely on them by then.

Their resources are going to wvw for a year now, start of a new expansion, some to esports promo and a bunch of other stuff.

They removed AB to work on it along with the other stuff. DB was ready so they tossed that in to at least do something, but they will hopefully make changes. The devs just can’t throw in what’s not ready, nor will they just switch in the old AB map to replace with an updated AB map in whatever months.

If you are assuming I’m ok with the DB map or the pace of development I’m not, just being realistic here.

Swagger.1459:

lil devils x.6071:

Swagger.1459:

lil devils x.6071:

Swagger.1459:

lil devils x.6071:

Swagger.1459:

lil devils x.6071:

Swagger.1459:

erKo.9586:

Thanks all for signing up in this thread!
Today at reset on Far Shiverpeaks(EU) there was instant 60+ queue on EB and no queue on the desert maps, and the que in eb grew bigger but no queue during the whole evening on the other borders. Thats enough proof for me.

We were already told the maps would come back…

They are probably upgrading AB, EB and making a snow map… I’m pretty sure we will have 4 unique maps to play on, and rotations will happen based on color placement for ranking… See how eotm does it?

Again, it was clearly said before. The devs also have all the statistics too so I’m sure they will change up the DB for the big update.

The voting won’t progress things faster, and at this point the old maps would be outdated for what they have in store. It’s probably best not to put them back in at this point because they will just have to replace them with a different AB anyway.

They are ignoring the numbers in hopes they can get PVE players into WvW, not understanding that PVE players don;t like PVP game modes and the ones that do are already plaything PvP and WvW. the rest of them rage quit if another player kills them.

“Their progress” IS the problem, and thus why they need players to tell them what they think about the direction they are taking it. The DBL’s are going the wrong direction all together IS the issue. WVW map design should be centered around keeping players engaged in challenging, fun, strategic PvP game play the majority of the time they are on a map. IF the core map design is not built around that very simple concept, it is a bad map. They built these maps to be the opposite. They cannot be " tweaked" to fix that is the issue. They actually have to take them back to the drawing board because:

1) They are too big, you spend more time running around wasting time instead of in PvP action. If you only have limited time to play, you do not want to spend it running around trying to find the action, you want to spend it IN the action. Think more like Courtyard, less like PVE zones for map design.

2)Horrible terrain for PvP. too many escape routes, fall damage, and environmental gimmicky BS. Needs a flatter, less bouncy gimmicky map to allow for players to stay in the PVP action rather than avoiding it or trying to get back to where the fight was only to find it over by the time you get to it. Make direct routs instead of trying to run players all over the place. It does not make fighting more challenging, fun or strategic to just make it take longer for players to get to the action due to terrain and environmental issues. That is just lame, not fun. They need to drop the idea of incorporating the battlefield into a jumping puzzle. The vast majority of players do not enjoy dying from fall damage more than they die from actual layers. That makes it a bad battlefield when the majority of players avoid it for that reason.

3) lack of strategic placement of anything.. They did not put much thought into actually making the objectives count for strategic positioning, When you took towers and keeps on Alpine maps, you had a reason to take or defend them due to the targets that could be hit from them and the advantage they would give on the battlefield. That w as lost with the design of these maps all together. It appears that was not even a thought when designing them.

4) Remove the PvE elements and Environmental Gimmicks from WvW.. We need less PVE in WvW and more PvP. 99.9% of GW is PVE, they can allow WvW players to have their tiny little corner without adding more PvE champs in there. Get rid of them and use the extra resources it frees up to allow more players in a zone without lagging instead. Making rocks come out of the ground does not enhance the match, it just irritates the players so they move somewhere that doesn’t happen to fight instead. If players are leaving an area to fight somewhere else instead because they think that zone sucks, that zones is not a well designed PvP zone.

5)Lack of water combat in WvW. At least on Alpine maps you were able to have underwater combat fights inside bay, south of keep and at SW camps…. Now WvW is lacking in Underwater combat due to shifting their focus to bouncy run away and avoid combat that players overwhelmingly do not enjoy.

What Anet fails to realize is that if they stay on track with their " progress" they will Kill WvW for good.. Continuing with the direction and theme of changes that they applied with HoT by replacing EBG with one of these garbage PvE maps will keep players out of WvW all together. They are currently huddled up on EBG because they hate the DBL maps so much that is their only retreat to enjoy WvW anymore. Remove that and you will lose those remaining players from the game.

Sure you will have the tiny percentage left that doesn’t care about the maps and doesn’t care if they play with friends.. but hat is what you call a dead game mode at that point.

I understand the frustrations.

I’m sure the devs are aware at this point given the feedback and stats. Just a waiting game at this point, and the devs know the players frustration because of that post by the devs saying “looks like we can talk about wvw so we will have some info”…

They know, but the old maps are not going to be dropped in just to take them out in whatever months at this point.

Being aware and acting on that awareness are two different things. Until we see new WvW team replacing the one we have it isn’t going to change. They said they were keeping the alpine maps in the rotation. The best thing they could do now to save the mode would be " rotate" back to alpine, leave it stuck there a bit while making new maps ( it doesn’t take a year to do that btw they just chose to make it so).

They should issue a statement stating they are aware of the issues and are trying to bring WvW players the maps they deserve, and that would be better than staying the course of action to replace EBG to try and force players onto the DBLS..

They can choose to save this or scrap it, and if they keep doing what they are doing.. it is all downhill from here. They very well could step up and say " we are going to make this right" but if they fail to do that, I am not sure it will be salvageable after they keep going the wrong way with it. Our guild used to run a solid 40+ core the majority of our raids.. we are down to 10 and under due to HoT. It isn’t just us either.. Everyone is playing other games / not interested in playing WvW in it’s current state and have lost hope that Anet will fix it.

I’m pretty sure the devs had a wake up call after last tournament, hence why they have been working on stuff already for a year. Also, the devs need to compete with a game like CU coming out, so GW2 can keep and attract more players.

The devs know the wvw gas tank is running on fumes at this point, but it’s just waiting time. Can’t make them work faster, but it’s reassuring that they have been up to something and that all engineers are coding away as we speak.

I don’t think the devs would ever come here and say they are happy with the current state of wvw either. Big stuff like this hits the pocket books so I’m sure they wished they would have invested sooner.

lil devils x.6071:

Edit- devs want all sorts of players in wvw, they just did it the wrong way with map completion stuff before. Once incentives are in place then everybody can find what appeals or encourages them to play. More players the better, but we all have to wait to find out.

Wanting all sorts of players doesn’t work in PvP game modes. Many games tried it. PvE players view WvW like the open world PvP games they refuse to play as it is. You either like to fight other players or you don’t. Some just don’t. Adding PvE to a PvP zone doesn’t change that, it just makes the players who want to PvP leave to a game that focuses on PvP instead.

I’m fully aware, but of course developers want to encourage more players to play different game modes. I never said anything about “adding pve to a pvp zone”, I said incentives. Incentives such as unique personal and guild rewards, some type of universal character progress, alternate progress options… There are a wide range of things to entice players that could be used.

We will just have to see what’s in store for wvw and these maps.

Their focus isn’t even on WvW, it is on trying to compete with MOBAas, which even Blizzard could not make WoW do. That failed terribly. The ONLY reason this takes so long is because WvW is not where hey are applying their resources. You can make things happen at the pace you dedicate the resources and man hours to. The pace for WvW is due to lack of " care" on their part moreso than anything. If they wished to dedicate the resources they are allocating to PvE and PvP updates, WvW would have been fixed long ago. The problem is their idea of " fixing it" will kill the game mode entirely.

Their current focus is on wvw.

Only moba can compete with moba, hence why ncsoft is working on two of them.

Of course resources were spread out, some to the year long wvw development and much more to the expansion.

You are kinda preaching to the choir, and I’m aware of what you are saying. Point is that there is going to be an update this year so the devs are not just going to throw in the old version of alpine back in at this point just to take it back out again. It’s at a point where the alpine map alone will not have the desired result of pulling in more players like you think. Players are tired of the same old at this point and wvw needs the “super secret” update to make anything substantial happen.

Honestly, if the devs switched maps today then most players wouldn’t really care now. You’d just have whatever die hards left on the maps and not much of anyone else. You’d still have the population disparities. You’d still have the same “zero” reward system. You’d still not have tournaments… It would just be wvw with the old alpine and same low population and interest level.

LMAO, no, their focus ISN’T on WvW..
Have you been paying attention?
MOBA..
http://www.eslgaming.com/interview/future-guild-wars-2-esports-and-pvp-interview-arenanet-team-1974
http://massivelyop.com/2015/11/27/guild-wars-2-sees-a-bright-future-in-e-sports/
http://massivelyop.com/2015/12/15/guild-wars-2-e-sports-team-ragequits-over-design-meta-technical-issues/
https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/announcing-the-esl-guild-wars-2-pro-league/
http://pro.eslgaming.com/gw2/proleague/

That is where all the resources have been going,…

If they switched maps today ques for EB would drop instantaneously and numbers would increase immediately. THAT is why they will not do it, it will show exactly how bad they wasted money making the DBLs… and could not blame anything else for the issues. No, they would not get pre HoT numbers, players are playing other games now that will not give them another chance since Anet burned that bridge, but it would have a very immediate and overwhelming response none the less. The longer they wait to do so the less of a response it will get simply because more people will have given up entirely on them by then.

Their resources are going to wvw for a year now, start of a new expansion, some to esports promo and a bunch of other stuff.

They removed AB to work on it along with the other stuff. DB was ready so they tossed that in to at least do something, but they will hopefully make changes. The devs just can’t throw in what’s not ready, nor will they just switch in the old AB map to replace with an updated AB map in whatever months.

If you are assuming I’m ok with the DB map or the pace of development I’m not, just being realistic here.

It isn’t ready because they were allocating resources to the wrong direction and have not allocated resources to taking wvw in the direction that players want to play. What they had ready was the opposite of what players wanted and why guilds have left and are talking about leaving GW2.

They are NOT however allocating enough resources to actually fixing it to where players consider the mode playable, for the past year, as seen above, they allocated more resources to their move to compete with MOBAs in Esports, as they have discussed in many interviews over the past year…

The hiring of people to work on multilevel zones is the opposite of what WvW players consider “playable.”

lil devils x.6071:

Swagger.1459:

lil devils x.6071:

Swagger.1459:

lil devils x.6071:

Swagger.1459:

lil devils x.6071:

Swagger.1459:

lil devils x.6071:

Swagger.1459:

erKo.9586:

Thanks all for signing up in this thread!
Today at reset on Far Shiverpeaks(EU) there was instant 60+ queue on EB and no queue on the desert maps, and the que in eb grew bigger but no queue during the whole evening on the other borders. Thats enough proof for me.

We were already told the maps would come back…

They are probably upgrading AB, EB and making a snow map… I’m pretty sure we will have 4 unique maps to play on, and rotations will happen based on color placement for ranking… See how eotm does it?

Again, it was clearly said before. The devs also have all the statistics too so I’m sure they will change up the DB for the big update.

The voting won’t progress things faster, and at this point the old maps would be outdated for what they have in store. It’s probably best not to put them back in at this point because they will just have to replace them with a different AB anyway.

They are ignoring the numbers in hopes they can get PVE players into WvW, not understanding that PVE players don;t like PVP game modes and the ones that do are already plaything PvP and WvW. the rest of them rage quit if another player kills them.

“Their progress” IS the problem, and thus why they need players to tell them what they think about the direction they are taking it. The DBL’s are going the wrong direction all together IS the issue. WVW map design should be centered around keeping players engaged in challenging, fun, strategic PvP game play the majority of the time they are on a map. IF the core map design is not built around that very simple concept, it is a bad map. They built these maps to be the opposite. They cannot be " tweaked" to fix that is the issue. They actually have to take them back to the drawing board because:

1) They are too big, you spend more time running around wasting time instead of in PvP action. If you only have limited time to play, you do not want to spend it running around trying to find the action, you want to spend it IN the action. Think more like Courtyard, less like PVE zones for map design.

2)Horrible terrain for PvP. too many escape routes, fall damage, and environmental gimmicky BS. Needs a flatter, less bouncy gimmicky map to allow for players to stay in the PVP action rather than avoiding it or trying to get back to where the fight was only to find it over by the time you get to it. Make direct routs instead of trying to run players all over the place. It does not make fighting more challenging, fun or strategic to just make it take longer for players to get to the action due to terrain and environmental issues. That is just lame, not fun. They need to drop the idea of incorporating the battlefield into a jumping puzzle. The vast majority of players do not enjoy dying from fall damage more than they die from actual layers. That makes it a bad battlefield when the majority of players avoid it for that reason.

3) lack of strategic placement of anything.. They did not put much thought into actually making the objectives count for strategic positioning, When you took towers and keeps on Alpine maps, you had a reason to take or defend them due to the targets that could be hit from them and the advantage they would give on the battlefield. That w as lost with the design of these maps all together. It appears that was not even a thought when designing them.

4) Remove the PvE elements and Environmental Gimmicks from WvW.. We need less PVE in WvW and more PvP. 99.9% of GW is PVE, they can allow WvW players to have their tiny little corner without adding more PvE champs in there. Get rid of them and use the extra resources it frees up to allow more players in a zone without lagging instead. Making rocks come out of the ground does not enhance the match, it just irritates the players so they move somewhere that doesn’t happen to fight instead. If players are leaving an area to fight somewhere else instead because they think that zone sucks, that zones is not a well designed PvP zone.

5)Lack of water combat in WvW. At least on Alpine maps you were able to have underwater combat fights inside bay, south of keep and at SW camps…. Now WvW is lacking in Underwater combat due to shifting their focus to bouncy run away and avoid combat that players overwhelmingly do not enjoy.

What Anet fails to realize is that if they stay on track with their " progress" they will Kill WvW for good.. Continuing with the direction and theme of changes that they applied with HoT by replacing EBG with one of these garbage PvE maps will keep players out of WvW all together. They are currently huddled up on EBG because they hate the DBL maps so much that is their only retreat to enjoy WvW anymore. Remove that and you will lose those remaining players from the game.

Sure you will have the tiny percentage left that doesn’t care about the maps and doesn’t care if they play with friends.. but hat is what you call a dead game mode at that point.

I understand the frustrations.

I’m sure the devs are aware at this point given the feedback and stats. Just a waiting game at this point, and the devs know the players frustration because of that post by the devs saying “looks like we can talk about wvw so we will have some info”…

They know, but the old maps are not going to be dropped in just to take them out in whatever months at this point.

Being aware and acting on that awareness are two different things. Until we see new WvW team replacing the one we have it isn’t going to change. They said they were keeping the alpine maps in the rotation. The best thing they could do now to save the mode would be " rotate" back to alpine, leave it stuck there a bit while making new maps ( it doesn’t take a year to do that btw they just chose to make it so).

They should issue a statement stating they are aware of the issues and are trying to bring WvW players the maps they deserve, and that would be better than staying the course of action to replace EBG to try and force players onto the DBLS..

They can choose to save this or scrap it, and if they keep doing what they are doing.. it is all downhill from here. They very well could step up and say " we are going to make this right" but if they fail to do that, I am not sure it will be salvageable after they keep going the wrong way with it. Our guild used to run a solid 40+ core the majority of our raids.. we are down to 10 and under due to HoT. It isn’t just us either.. Everyone is playing other games / not interested in playing WvW in it’s current state and have lost hope that Anet will fix it.

I’m pretty sure the devs had a wake up call after last tournament, hence why they have been working on stuff already for a year. Also, the devs need to compete with a game like CU coming out, so GW2 can keep and attract more players.

The devs know the wvw gas tank is running on fumes at this point, but it’s just waiting time. Can’t make them work faster, but it’s reassuring that they have been up to something and that all engineers are coding away as we speak.

I don’t think the devs would ever come here and say they are happy with the current state of wvw either. Big stuff like this hits the pocket books so I’m sure they wished they would have invested sooner.

lil devils x.6071:

Edit- devs want all sorts of players in wvw, they just did it the wrong way with map completion stuff before. Once incentives are in place then everybody can find what appeals or encourages them to play. More players the better, but we all have to wait to find out.

Wanting all sorts of players doesn’t work in PvP game modes. Many games tried it. PvE players view WvW like the open world PvP games they refuse to play as it is. You either like to fight other players or you don’t. Some just don’t. Adding PvE to a PvP zone doesn’t change that, it just makes the players who want to PvP leave to a game that focuses on PvP instead.

I’m fully aware, but of course developers want to encourage more players to play different game modes. I never said anything about “adding pve to a pvp zone”, I said incentives. Incentives such as unique personal and guild rewards, some type of universal character progress, alternate progress options… There are a wide range of things to entice players that could be used.

We will just have to see what’s in store for wvw and these maps.

Their focus isn’t even on WvW, it is on trying to compete with MOBAas, which even Blizzard could not make WoW do. That failed terribly. The ONLY reason this takes so long is because WvW is not where hey are applying their resources. You can make things happen at the pace you dedicate the resources and man hours to. The pace for WvW is due to lack of " care" on their part moreso than anything. If they wished to dedicate the resources they are allocating to PvE and PvP updates, WvW would have been fixed long ago. The problem is their idea of " fixing it" will kill the game mode entirely.

Their current focus is on wvw.

Only moba can compete with moba, hence why ncsoft is working on two of them.

Of course resources were spread out, some to the year long wvw development and much more to the expansion.

You are kinda preaching to the choir, and I’m aware of what you are saying. Point is that there is going to be an update this year so the devs are not just going to throw in the old version of alpine back in at this point just to take it back out again. It’s at a point where the alpine map alone will not have the desired result of pulling in more players like you think. Players are tired of the same old at this point and wvw needs the “super secret” update to make anything substantial happen.

Honestly, if the devs switched maps today then most players wouldn’t really care now. You’d just have whatever die hards left on the maps and not much of anyone else. You’d still have the population disparities. You’d still have the same “zero” reward system. You’d still not have tournaments… It would just be wvw with the old alpine and same low population and interest level.

LMAO, no, their focus ISN’T on WvW..
Have you been paying attention?
MOBA..
http://www.eslgaming.com/interview/future-guild-wars-2-esports-and-pvp-interview-arenanet-team-1974
http://massivelyop.com/2015/11/27/guild-wars-2-sees-a-bright-future-in-e-sports/
http://massivelyop.com/2015/12/15/guild-wars-2-e-sports-team-ragequits-over-design-meta-technical-issues/
https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/announcing-the-esl-guild-wars-2-pro-league/
http://pro.eslgaming.com/gw2/proleague/

That is where all the resources have been going,…

If they switched maps today ques for EB would drop instantaneously and numbers would increase immediately. THAT is why they will not do it, it will show exactly how bad they wasted money making the DBLs… and could not blame anything else for the issues. No, they would not get pre HoT numbers, players are playing other games now that will not give them another chance since Anet burned that bridge, but it would have a very immediate and overwhelming response none the less. The longer they wait to do so the less of a response it will get simply because more people will have given up entirely on them by then.

Their resources are going to wvw for a year now, start of a new expansion, some to esports promo and a bunch of other stuff.

They removed AB to work on it along with the other stuff. DB was ready so they tossed that in to at least do something, but they will hopefully make changes. The devs just can’t throw in what’s not ready, nor will they just switch in the old AB map to replace with an updated AB map in whatever months.

If you are assuming I’m ok with the DB map or the pace of development I’m not, just being realistic here.

It isn’t ready because they were allocating resources to the wrong direction and have not allocated resources to taking wvw in the direction that players want to play. What they had ready was the opposite of what players wanted and why guilds have left and are talking about leaving GW2.

They are NOT however allocating enough resources to actually fixing it to where players consider the mode playable, for the past year, as seen above, they allocated more resources to their move to compete with MOBAs in Esports, as they have discussed in many interviews over the past year…

The hiring of people to work on multilevel zones is the opposite of what WvW players consider “playable.”

We could analyze this and that all day, but it won’t change things. The point is that the old AB maps are not just being tossed backed in. Everybody will just have to wait for the info, then the beta and following patch.

Swagger.1459:

lil devils x.6071:

Swagger.1459:

lil devils x.6071:

Swagger.1459:

lil devils x.6071:

Swagger.1459:

lil devils x.6071:

Swagger.1459:

lil devils x.6071:

Swagger.1459:

erKo.9586:

Thanks all for signing up in this thread!
Today at reset on Far Shiverpeaks(EU) there was instant 60+ queue on EB and no queue on the desert maps, and the que in eb grew bigger but no queue during the whole evening on the other borders. Thats enough proof for me.

We were already told the maps would come back…

They are probably upgrading AB, EB and making a snow map… I’m pretty sure we will have 4 unique maps to play on, and rotations will happen based on color placement for ranking… See how eotm does it?

Again, it was clearly said before. The devs also have all the statistics too so I’m sure they will change up the DB for the big update.

The voting won’t progress things faster, and at this point the old maps would be outdated for what they have in store. It’s probably best not to put them back in at this point because they will just have to replace them with a different AB anyway.

They are ignoring the numbers in hopes they can get PVE players into WvW, not understanding that PVE players don;t like PVP game modes and the ones that do are already plaything PvP and WvW. the rest of them rage quit if another player kills them.

“Their progress” IS the problem, and thus why they need players to tell them what they think about the direction they are taking it. The DBL’s are going the wrong direction all together IS the issue. WVW map design should be centered around keeping players engaged in challenging, fun, strategic PvP game play the majority of the time they are on a map. IF the core map design is not built around that very simple concept, it is a bad map. They built these maps to be the opposite. They cannot be " tweaked" to fix that is the issue. They actually have to take them back to the drawing board because:

1) They are too big, you spend more time running around wasting time instead of in PvP action. If you only have limited time to play, you do not want to spend it running around trying to find the action, you want to spend it IN the action. Think more like Courtyard, less like PVE zones for map design.

2)Horrible terrain for PvP. too many escape routes, fall damage, and environmental gimmicky BS. Needs a flatter, less bouncy gimmicky map to allow for players to stay in the PVP action rather than avoiding it or trying to get back to where the fight was only to find it over by the time you get to it. Make direct routs instead of trying to run players all over the place. It does not make fighting more challenging, fun or strategic to just make it take longer for players to get to the action due to terrain and environmental issues. That is just lame, not fun. They need to drop the idea of incorporating the battlefield into a jumping puzzle. The vast majority of players do not enjoy dying from fall damage more than they die from actual layers. That makes it a bad battlefield when the majority of players avoid it for that reason.

3) lack of strategic placement of anything.. They did not put much thought into actually making the objectives count for strategic positioning, When you took towers and keeps on Alpine maps, you had a reason to take or defend them due to the targets that could be hit from them and the advantage they would give on the battlefield. That w as lost with the design of these maps all together. It appears that was not even a thought when designing them.

4) Remove the PvE elements and Environmental Gimmicks from WvW.. We need less PVE in WvW and more PvP. 99.9% of GW is PVE, they can allow WvW players to have their tiny little corner without adding more PvE champs in there. Get rid of them and use the extra resources it frees up to allow more players in a zone without lagging instead. Making rocks come out of the ground does not enhance the match, it just irritates the players so they move somewhere that doesn’t happen to fight instead. If players are leaving an area to fight somewhere else instead because they think that zone sucks, that zones is not a well designed PvP zone.

5)Lack of water combat in WvW. At least on Alpine maps you were able to have underwater combat fights inside bay, south of keep and at SW camps…. Now WvW is lacking in Underwater combat due to shifting their focus to bouncy run away and avoid combat that players overwhelmingly do not enjoy.

What Anet fails to realize is that if they stay on track with their " progress" they will Kill WvW for good.. Continuing with the direction and theme of changes that they applied with HoT by replacing EBG with one of these garbage PvE maps will keep players out of WvW all together. They are currently huddled up on EBG because they hate the DBL maps so much that is their only retreat to enjoy WvW anymore. Remove that and you will lose those remaining players from the game.

Sure you will have the tiny percentage left that doesn’t care about the maps and doesn’t care if they play with friends.. but hat is what you call a dead game mode at that point.

I understand the frustrations.

I’m sure the devs are aware at this point given the feedback and stats. Just a waiting game at this point, and the devs know the players frustration because of that post by the devs saying “looks like we can talk about wvw so we will have some info”…

They know, but the old maps are not going to be dropped in just to take them out in whatever months at this point.

Being aware and acting on that awareness are two different things. Until we see new WvW team replacing the one we have it isn’t going to change. They said they were keeping the alpine maps in the rotation. The best thing they could do now to save the mode would be " rotate" back to alpine, leave it stuck there a bit while making new maps ( it doesn’t take a year to do that btw they just chose to make it so).

They should issue a statement stating they are aware of the issues and are trying to bring WvW players the maps they deserve, and that would be better than staying the course of action to replace EBG to try and force players onto the DBLS..

They can choose to save this or scrap it, and if they keep doing what they are doing.. it is all downhill from here. They very well could step up and say " we are going to make this right" but if they fail to do that, I am not sure it will be salvageable after they keep going the wrong way with it. Our guild used to run a solid 40+ core the majority of our raids.. we are down to 10 and under due to HoT. It isn’t just us either.. Everyone is playing other games / not interested in playing WvW in it’s current state and have lost hope that Anet will fix it.

I’m pretty sure the devs had a wake up call after last tournament, hence why they have been working on stuff already for a year. Also, the devs need to compete with a game like CU coming out, so GW2 can keep and attract more players.

The devs know the wvw gas tank is running on fumes at this point, but it’s just waiting time. Can’t make them work faster, but it’s reassuring that they have been up to something and that all engineers are coding away as we speak.

I don’t think the devs would ever come here and say they are happy with the current state of wvw either. Big stuff like this hits the pocket books so I’m sure they wished they would have invested sooner.

lil devils x.6071:

Edit- devs want all sorts of players in wvw, they just did it the wrong way with map completion stuff before. Once incentives are in place then everybody can find what appeals or encourages them to play. More players the better, but we all have to wait to find out.

Wanting all sorts of players doesn’t work in PvP game modes. Many games tried it. PvE players view WvW like the open world PvP games they refuse to play as it is. You either like to fight other players or you don’t. Some just don’t. Adding PvE to a PvP zone doesn’t change that, it just makes the players who want to PvP leave to a game that focuses on PvP instead.

I’m fully aware, but of course developers want to encourage more players to play different game modes. I never said anything about “adding pve to a pvp zone”, I said incentives. Incentives such as unique personal and guild rewards, some type of universal character progress, alternate progress options… There are a wide range of things to entice players that could be used.

We will just have to see what’s in store for wvw and these maps.

Their focus isn’t even on WvW, it is on trying to compete with MOBAas, which even Blizzard could not make WoW do. That failed terribly. The ONLY reason this takes so long is because WvW is not where hey are applying their resources. You can make things happen at the pace you dedicate the resources and man hours to. The pace for WvW is due to lack of " care" on their part moreso than anything. If they wished to dedicate the resources they are allocating to PvE and PvP updates, WvW would have been fixed long ago. The problem is their idea of " fixing it" will kill the game mode entirely.

Their current focus is on wvw.

Only moba can compete with moba, hence why ncsoft is working on two of them.

Of course resources were spread out, some to the year long wvw development and much more to the expansion.

You are kinda preaching to the choir, and I’m aware of what you are saying. Point is that there is going to be an update this year so the devs are not just going to throw in the old version of alpine back in at this point just to take it back out again. It’s at a point where the alpine map alone will not have the desired result of pulling in more players like you think. Players are tired of the same old at this point and wvw needs the “super secret” update to make anything substantial happen.

Honestly, if the devs switched maps today then most players wouldn’t really care now. You’d just have whatever die hards left on the maps and not much of anyone else. You’d still have the population disparities. You’d still have the same “zero” reward system. You’d still not have tournaments… It would just be wvw with the old alpine and same low population and interest level.

LMAO, no, their focus ISN’T on WvW..
Have you been paying attention?
MOBA..
http://www.eslgaming.com/interview/future-guild-wars-2-esports-and-pvp-interview-arenanet-team-1974
http://massivelyop.com/2015/11/27/guild-wars-2-sees-a-bright-future-in-e-sports/
http://massivelyop.com/2015/12/15/guild-wars-2-e-sports-team-ragequits-over-design-meta-technical-issues/
https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/announcing-the-esl-guild-wars-2-pro-league/
http://pro.eslgaming.com/gw2/proleague/

That is where all the resources have been going,…

If they switched maps today ques for EB would drop instantaneously and numbers would increase immediately. THAT is why they will not do it, it will show exactly how bad they wasted money making the DBLs… and could not blame anything else for the issues. No, they would not get pre HoT numbers, players are playing other games now that will not give them another chance since Anet burned that bridge, but it would have a very immediate and overwhelming response none the less. The longer they wait to do so the less of a response it will get simply because more people will have given up entirely on them by then.

Their resources are going to wvw for a year now, start of a new expansion, some to esports promo and a bunch of other stuff.

They removed AB to work on it along with the other stuff. DB was ready so they tossed that in to at least do something, but they will hopefully make changes. The devs just can’t throw in what’s not ready, nor will they just switch in the old AB map to replace with an updated AB map in whatever months.

If you are assuming I’m ok with the DB map or the pace of development I’m not, just being realistic here.

It isn’t ready because they were allocating resources to the wrong direction and have not allocated resources to taking wvw in the direction that players want to play. What they had ready was the opposite of what players wanted and why guilds have left and are talking about leaving GW2.

They are NOT however allocating enough resources to actually fixing it to where players consider the mode playable, for the past year, as seen above, they allocated more resources to their move to compete with MOBAs in Esports, as they have discussed in many interviews over the past year…

The hiring of people to work on multilevel zones is the opposite of what WvW players consider “playable.”

We could analyze this and that all day, but it won’t change things. The point is that the old AB maps are not just being tossed backed in. Everybody will just have to wait for the info, then the beta and following patch.

Or they could just leave and play something else because Anet didn’t listen ( like most have done already). They already waited.. too long. IS the point. ANet hasn’t said they weren’t putting Alpine back in, in fact they said the opposite, they stated Alpine was not being removed and would be kept in the rotation. Time to rotate before everyone else leaves as well…

If you can show me where they said they were not keeping Alpine in the rotation please do, as everything I have seen them say on the subject said it was coming back.. people just want that sooner and for them not to break it before returning it. Players do not want them to change it is what is being stated.

It is even in the notes on the Wiki:

The Desert Borderlands are planned to be on a rotation with the Alpine Borderlands.

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Desert_Borderlands

If the only reason they wont rotate it back now is due to it showing how much the DBL failed, that is just double fail.

Double post. Please delete. Forums buggy.

lil devils x.6071:

Swagger.1459:

lil devils x.6071:

Swagger.1459:

lil devils x.6071:

Swagger.1459:

lil devils x.6071:

Swagger.1459:

lil devils x.6071:

Swagger.1459:

lil devils x.6071:

Swagger.1459:

erKo.9586:

Thanks all for signing up in this thread!
Today at reset on Far Shiverpeaks(EU) there was instant 60+ queue on EB and no queue on the desert maps, and the que in eb grew bigger but no queue during the whole evening on the other borders. Thats enough proof for me.

We were already told the maps would come back…

They are probably upgrading AB, EB and making a snow map… I’m pretty sure we will have 4 unique maps to play on, and rotations will happen based on color placement for ranking… See how eotm does it?

Again, it was clearly said before. The devs also have all the statistics too so I’m sure they will change up the DB for the big update.

The voting won’t progress things faster, and at this point the old maps would be outdated for what they have in store. It’s probably best not to put them back in at this point because they will just have to replace them with a different AB anyway.

They are ignoring the numbers in hopes they can get PVE players into WvW, not understanding that PVE players don;t like PVP game modes and the ones that do are already plaything PvP and WvW. the rest of them rage quit if another player kills them.

“Their progress” IS the problem, and thus why they need players to tell them what they think about the direction they are taking it. The DBL’s are going the wrong direction all together IS the issue. WVW map design should be centered around keeping players engaged in challenging, fun, strategic PvP game play the majority of the time they are on a map. IF the core map design is not built around that very simple concept, it is a bad map. They built these maps to be the opposite. They cannot be " tweaked" to fix that is the issue. They actually have to take them back to the drawing board because:

1) They are too big, you spend more time running around wasting time instead of in PvP action. If you only have limited time to play, you do not want to spend it running around trying to find the action, you want to spend it IN the action. Think more like Courtyard, less like PVE zones for map design.

2)Horrible terrain for PvP. too many escape routes, fall damage, and environmental gimmicky BS. Needs a flatter, less bouncy gimmicky map to allow for players to stay in the PVP action rather than avoiding it or trying to get back to where the fight was only to find it over by the time you get to it. Make direct routs instead of trying to run players all over the place. It does not make fighting more challenging, fun or strategic to just make it take longer for players to get to the action due to terrain and environmental issues. That is just lame, not fun. They need to drop the idea of incorporating the battlefield into a jumping puzzle. The vast majority of players do not enjoy dying from fall damage more than they die from actual layers. That makes it a bad battlefield when the majority of players avoid it for that reason.

3) lack of strategic placement of anything.. They did not put much thought into actually making the objectives count for strategic positioning, When you took towers and keeps on Alpine maps, you had a reason to take or defend them due to the targets that could be hit from them and the advantage they would give on the battlefield. That w as lost with the design of these maps all together. It appears that was not even a thought when designing them.

4) Remove the PvE elements and Environmental Gimmicks from WvW.. We need less PVE in WvW and more PvP. 99.9% of GW is PVE, they can allow WvW players to have their tiny little corner without adding more PvE champs in there. Get rid of them and use the extra resources it frees up to allow more players in a zone without lagging instead. Making rocks come out of the ground does not enhance the match, it just irritates the players so they move somewhere that doesn’t happen to fight instead. If players are leaving an area to fight somewhere else instead because they think that zone sucks, that zones is not a well designed PvP zone.

5)Lack of water combat in WvW. At least on Alpine maps you were able to have underwater combat fights inside bay, south of keep and at SW camps…. Now WvW is lacking in Underwater combat due to shifting their focus to bouncy run away and avoid combat that players overwhelmingly do not enjoy.

What Anet fails to realize is that if they stay on track with their " progress" they will Kill WvW for good.. Continuing with the direction and theme of changes that they applied with HoT by replacing EBG with one of these garbage PvE maps will keep players out of WvW all together. They are currently huddled up on EBG because they hate the DBL maps so much that is their only retreat to enjoy WvW anymore. Remove that and you will lose those remaining players from the game.

Sure you will have the tiny percentage left that doesn’t care about the maps and doesn’t care if they play with friends.. but hat is what you call a dead game mode at that point.

I understand the frustrations.

I’m sure the devs are aware at this point given the feedback and stats. Just a waiting game at this point, and the devs know the players frustration because of that post by the devs saying “looks like we can talk about wvw so we will have some info”…

They know, but the old maps are not going to be dropped in just to take them out in whatever months at this point.

Being aware and acting on that awareness are two different things. Until we see new WvW team replacing the one we have it isn’t going to change. They said they were keeping the alpine maps in the rotation. The best thing they could do now to save the mode would be " rotate" back to alpine, leave it stuck there a bit while making new maps ( it doesn’t take a year to do that btw they just chose to make it so).

They should issue a statement stating they are aware of the issues and are trying to bring WvW players the maps they deserve, and that would be better than staying the course of action to replace EBG to try and force players onto the DBLS..

They can choose to save this or scrap it, and if they keep doing what they are doing.. it is all downhill from here. They very well could step up and say " we are going to make this right" but if they fail to do that, I am not sure it will be salvageable after they keep going the wrong way with it. Our guild used to run a solid 40+ core the majority of our raids.. we are down to 10 and under due to HoT. It isn’t just us either.. Everyone is playing other games / not interested in playing WvW in it’s current state and have lost hope that Anet will fix it.

I’m pretty sure the devs had a wake up call after last tournament, hence why they have been working on stuff already for a year. Also, the devs need to compete with a game like CU coming out, so GW2 can keep and attract more players.

The devs know the wvw gas tank is running on fumes at this point, but it’s just waiting time. Can’t make them work faster, but it’s reassuring that they have been up to something and that all engineers are coding away as we speak.

I don’t think the devs would ever come here and say they are happy with the current state of wvw either. Big stuff like this hits the pocket books so I’m sure they wished they would have invested sooner.

lil devils x.6071:

Edit- devs want all sorts of players in wvw, they just did it the wrong way with map completion stuff before. Once incentives are in place then everybody can find what appeals or encourages them to play. More players the better, but we all have to wait to find out.

Wanting all sorts of players doesn’t work in PvP game modes. Many games tried it. PvE players view WvW like the open world PvP games they refuse to play as it is. You either like to fight other players or you don’t. Some just don’t. Adding PvE to a PvP zone doesn’t change that, it just makes the players who want to PvP leave to a game that focuses on PvP instead.

I’m fully aware, but of course developers want to encourage more players to play different game modes. I never said anything about “adding pve to a pvp zone”, I said incentives. Incentives such as unique personal and guild rewards, some type of universal character progress, alternate progress options… There are a wide range of things to entice players that could be used.

We will just have to see what’s in store for wvw and these maps.

Their focus isn’t even on WvW, it is on trying to compete with MOBAas, which even Blizzard could not make WoW do. That failed terribly. The ONLY reason this takes so long is because WvW is not where hey are applying their resources. You can make things happen at the pace you dedicate the resources and man hours to. The pace for WvW is due to lack of " care" on their part moreso than anything. If they wished to dedicate the resources they are allocating to PvE and PvP updates, WvW would have been fixed long ago. The problem is their idea of " fixing it" will kill the game mode entirely.

Their current focus is on wvw.

Only moba can compete with moba, hence why ncsoft is working on two of them.

Of course resources were spread out, some to the year long wvw development and much more to the expansion.

You are kinda preaching to the choir, and I’m aware of what you are saying. Point is that there is going to be an update this year so the devs are not just going to throw in the old version of alpine back in at this point just to take it back out again. It’s at a point where the alpine map alone will not have the desired result of pulling in more players like you think. Players are tired of the same old at this point and wvw needs the “super secret” update to make anything substantial happen.

Honestly, if the devs switched maps today then most players wouldn’t really care now. You’d just have whatever die hards left on the maps and not much of anyone else. You’d still have the population disparities. You’d still have the same “zero” reward system. You’d still not have tournaments… It would just be wvw with the old alpine and same low population and interest level.

LMAO, no, their focus ISN’T on WvW..
Have you been paying attention?
MOBA..
http://www.eslgaming.com/interview/future-guild-wars-2-esports-and-pvp-interview-arenanet-team-1974
http://massivelyop.com/2015/11/27/guild-wars-2-sees-a-bright-future-in-e-sports/
http://massivelyop.com/2015/12/15/guild-wars-2-e-sports-team-ragequits-over-design-meta-technical-issues/
https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/announcing-the-esl-guild-wars-2-pro-league/
http://pro.eslgaming.com/gw2/proleague/

That is where all the resources have been going,…

If they switched maps today ques for EB would drop instantaneously and numbers would increase immediately. THAT is why they will not do it, it will show exactly how bad they wasted money making the DBLs… and could not blame anything else for the issues. No, they would not get pre HoT numbers, players are playing other games now that will not give them another chance since Anet burned that bridge, but it would have a very immediate and overwhelming response none the less. The longer they wait to do so the less of a response it will get simply because more people will have given up entirely on them by then.

Their resources are going to wvw for a year now, start of a new expansion, some to esports promo and a bunch of other stuff.

They removed AB to work on it along with the other stuff. DB was ready so they tossed that in to at least do something, but they will hopefully make changes. The devs just can’t throw in what’s not ready, nor will they just switch in the old AB map to replace with an updated AB map in whatever months.

If you are assuming I’m ok with the DB map or the pace of development I’m not, just being realistic here.

It isn’t ready because they were allocating resources to the wrong direction and have not allocated resources to taking wvw in the direction that players want to play. What they had ready was the opposite of what players wanted and why guilds have left and are talking about leaving GW2.

They are NOT however allocating enough resources to actually fixing it to where players consider the mode playable, for the past year, as seen above, they allocated more resources to their move to compete with MOBAs in Esports, as they have discussed in many interviews over the past year…

The hiring of people to work on multilevel zones is the opposite of what WvW players consider “playable.”

We could analyze this and that all day, but it won’t change things. The point is that the old AB maps are not just being tossed backed in. Everybody will just have to wait for the info, then the beta and following patch.

Or they could just leave and play something else because Anet didn’t listen ( like most have done already). They already waited.. too long. IS the point. ANet hasn’t said they weren’t putting Alpine back in, in fact they said the opposite, they stated Alpine was not being removed and would be kept in the rotation. Time to rotate before everyone else leaves as well…

If you can show me where they said they were not keeping Alpine in the rotation please do, as everything I have seen them say on the subject said it was coming back.. people just want that sooner and for them not to break it before returning it. Players do not want them to change it is what is being stated.

Had you’d been following my comments you would see where I said they are probably upgrading AB and that will go back in. I doubt they will put in the exact old AB.

Back up and reread my comments.

Swagger.1459:

lil devils x.6071:

Swagger.1459:

lil devils x.6071:

Swagger.1459:

lil devils x.6071:

Swagger.1459:

lil devils x.6071:

Swagger.1459:

lil devils x.6071:

Swagger.1459:

lil devils x.6071:

Swagger.1459:

erKo.9586:

Thanks all for signing up in this thread!
Today at reset on Far Shiverpeaks(EU) there was instant 60+ queue on EB and no queue on the desert maps, and the que in eb grew bigger but no queue during the whole evening on the other borders. Thats enough proof for me.

We were already told the maps would come back…

They are probably upgrading AB, EB and making a snow map… I’m pretty sure we will have 4 unique maps to play on, and rotations will happen based on color placement for ranking… See how eotm does it?

Again, it was clearly said before. The devs also have all the statistics too so I’m sure they will change up the DB for the big update.

The voting won’t progress things faster, and at this point the old maps would be outdated for what they have in store. It’s probably best not to put them back in at this point because they will just have to replace them with a different AB anyway.

They are ignoring the numbers in hopes they can get PVE players into WvW, not understanding that PVE players don;t like PVP game modes and the ones that do are already plaything PvP and WvW. the rest of them rage quit if another player kills them.

“Their progress” IS the problem, and thus why they need players to tell them what they think about the direction they are taking it. The DBL’s are going the wrong direction all together IS the issue. WVW map design should be centered around keeping players engaged in challenging, fun, strategic PvP game play the majority of the time they are on a map. IF the core map design is not built around that very simple concept, it is a bad map. They built these maps to be the opposite. They cannot be " tweaked" to fix that is the issue. They actually have to take them back to the drawing board because:

1) They are too big, you spend more time running around wasting time instead of in PvP action. If you only have limited time to play, you do not want to spend it running around trying to find the action, you want to spend it IN the action. Think more like Courtyard, less like PVE zones for map design.

2)Horrible terrain for PvP. too many escape routes, fall damage, and environmental gimmicky BS. Needs a flatter, less bouncy gimmicky map to allow for players to stay in the PVP action rather than avoiding it or trying to get back to where the fight was only to find it over by the time you get to it. Make direct routs instead of trying to run players all over the place. It does not make fighting more challenging, fun or strategic to just make it take longer for players to get to the action due to terrain and environmental issues. That is just lame, not fun. They need to drop the idea of incorporating the battlefield into a jumping puzzle. The vast majority of players do not enjoy dying from fall damage more than they die from actual layers. That makes it a bad battlefield when the majority of players avoid it for that reason.

3) lack of strategic placement of anything.. They did not put much thought into actually making the objectives count for strategic positioning, When you took towers and keeps on Alpine maps, you had a reason to take or defend them due to the targets that could be hit from them and the advantage they would give on the battlefield. That w as lost with the design of these maps all together. It appears that was not even a thought when designing them.

4) Remove the PvE elements and Environmental Gimmicks from WvW.. We need less PVE in WvW and more PvP. 99.9% of GW is PVE, they can allow WvW players to have their tiny little corner without adding more PvE champs in there. Get rid of them and use the extra resources it frees up to allow more players in a zone without lagging instead. Making rocks come out of the ground does not enhance the match, it just irritates the players so they move somewhere that doesn’t happen to fight instead. If players are leaving an area to fight somewhere else instead because they think that zone sucks, that zones is not a well designed PvP zone.

5)Lack of water combat in WvW. At least on Alpine maps you were able to have underwater combat fights inside bay, south of keep and at SW camps…. Now WvW is lacking in Underwater combat due to shifting their focus to bouncy run away and avoid combat that players overwhelmingly do not enjoy.

What Anet fails to realize is that if they stay on track with their " progress" they will Kill WvW for good.. Continuing with the direction and theme of changes that they applied with HoT by replacing EBG with one of these garbage PvE maps will keep players out of WvW all together. They are currently huddled up on EBG because they hate the DBL maps so much that is their only retreat to enjoy WvW anymore. Remove that and you will lose those remaining players from the game.

Sure you will have the tiny percentage left that doesn’t care about the maps and doesn’t care if they play with friends.. but hat is what you call a dead game mode at that point.

I understand the frustrations.

I’m sure the devs are aware at this point given the feedback and stats. Just a waiting game at this point, and the devs know the players frustration because of that post by the devs saying “looks like we can talk about wvw so we will have some info”…

They know, but the old maps are not going to be dropped in just to take them out in whatever months at this point.

Being aware and acting on that awareness are two different things. Until we see new WvW team replacing the one we have it isn’t going to change. They said they were keeping the alpine maps in the rotation. The best thing they could do now to save the mode would be " rotate" back to alpine, leave it stuck there a bit while making new maps ( it doesn’t take a year to do that btw they just chose to make it so).

They should issue a statement stating they are aware of the issues and are trying to bring WvW players the maps they deserve, and that would be better than staying the course of action to replace EBG to try and force players onto the DBLS..

They can choose to save this or scrap it, and if they keep doing what they are doing.. it is all downhill from here. They very well could step up and say " we are going to make this right" but if they fail to do that, I am not sure it will be salvageable after they keep going the wrong way with it. Our guild used to run a solid 40+ core the majority of our raids.. we are down to 10 and under due to HoT. It isn’t just us either.. Everyone is playing other games / not interested in playing WvW in it’s current state and have lost hope that Anet will fix it.

I’m pretty sure the devs had a wake up call after last tournament, hence why they have been working on stuff already for a year. Also, the devs need to compete with a game like CU coming out, so GW2 can keep and attract more players.

The devs know the wvw gas tank is running on fumes at this point, but it’s just waiting time. Can’t make them work faster, but it’s reassuring that they have been up to something and that all engineers are coding away as we speak.

I don’t think the devs would ever come here and say they are happy with the current state of wvw either. Big stuff like this hits the pocket books so I’m sure they wished they would have invested sooner.

lil devils x.6071:

Edit- devs want all sorts of players in wvw, they just did it the wrong way with map completion stuff before. Once incentives are in place then everybody can find what appeals or encourages them to play. More players the better, but we all have to wait to find out.

Wanting all sorts of players doesn’t work in PvP game modes. Many games tried it. PvE players view WvW like the open world PvP games they refuse to play as it is. You either like to fight other players or you don’t. Some just don’t. Adding PvE to a PvP zone doesn’t change that, it just makes the players who want to PvP leave to a game that focuses on PvP instead.

I’m fully aware, but of course developers want to encourage more players to play different game modes. I never said anything about “adding pve to a pvp zone”, I said incentives. Incentives such as unique personal and guild rewards, some type of universal character progress, alternate progress options… There are a wide range of things to entice players that could be used.

We will just have to see what’s in store for wvw and these maps.

Their focus isn’t even on WvW, it is on trying to compete with MOBAas, which even Blizzard could not make WoW do. That failed terribly. The ONLY reason this takes so long is because WvW is not where hey are applying their resources. You can make things happen at the pace you dedicate the resources and man hours to. The pace for WvW is due to lack of " care" on their part moreso than anything. If they wished to dedicate the resources they are allocating to PvE and PvP updates, WvW would have been fixed long ago. The problem is their idea of " fixing it" will kill the game mode entirely.

Their current focus is on wvw.

Only moba can compete with moba, hence why ncsoft is working on two of them.

Of course resources were spread out, some to the year long wvw development and much more to the expansion.

You are kinda preaching to the choir, and I’m aware of what you are saying. Point is that there is going to be an update this year so the devs are not just going to throw in the old version of alpine back in at this point just to take it back out again. It’s at a point where the alpine map alone will not have the desired result of pulling in more players like you think. Players are tired of the same old at this point and wvw needs the “super secret” update to make anything substantial happen.

Honestly, if the devs switched maps today then most players wouldn’t really care now. You’d just have whatever die hards left on the maps and not much of anyone else. You’d still have the population disparities. You’d still have the same “zero” reward system. You’d still not have tournaments… It would just be wvw with the old alpine and same low population and interest level.

LMAO, no, their focus ISN’T on WvW..
Have you been paying attention?
MOBA..
http://www.eslgaming.com/interview/future-guild-wars-2-esports-and-pvp-interview-arenanet-team-1974
http://massivelyop.com/2015/11/27/guild-wars-2-sees-a-bright-future-in-e-sports/
http://massivelyop.com/2015/12/15/guild-wars-2-e-sports-team-ragequits-over-design-meta-technical-issues/
https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/announcing-the-esl-guild-wars-2-pro-league/
http://pro.eslgaming.com/gw2/proleague/

That is where all the resources have been going,…

If they switched maps today ques for EB would drop instantaneously and numbers would increase immediately. THAT is why they will not do it, it will show exactly how bad they wasted money making the DBLs… and could not blame anything else for the issues. No, they would not get pre HoT numbers, players are playing other games now that will not give them another chance since Anet burned that bridge, but it would have a very immediate and overwhelming response none the less. The longer they wait to do so the less of a response it will get simply because more people will have given up entirely on them by then.

Their resources are going to wvw for a year now, start of a new expansion, some to esports promo and a bunch of other stuff.

They removed AB to work on it along with the other stuff. DB was ready so they tossed that in to at least do something, but they will hopefully make changes. The devs just can’t throw in what’s not ready, nor will they just switch in the old AB map to replace with an updated AB map in whatever months.

If you are assuming I’m ok with the DB map or the pace of development I’m not, just being realistic here.

It isn’t ready because they were allocating resources to the wrong direction and have not allocated resources to taking wvw in the direction that players want to play. What they had ready was the opposite of what players wanted and why guilds have left and are talking about leaving GW2.

They are NOT however allocating enough resources to actually fixing it to where players consider the mode playable, for the past year, as seen above, they allocated more resources to their move to compete with MOBAs in Esports, as they have discussed in many interviews over the past year…

The hiring of people to work on multilevel zones is the opposite of what WvW players consider “playable.”

We could analyze this and that all day, but it won’t change things. The point is that the old AB maps are not just being tossed backed in. Everybody will just have to wait for the info, then the beta and following patch.

Or they could just leave and play something else because Anet didn’t listen ( like most have done already). They already waited.. too long. IS the point. ANet hasn’t said they weren’t putting Alpine back in, in fact they said the opposite, they stated Alpine was not being removed and would be kept in the rotation. Time to rotate before everyone else leaves as well…

If you can show me where they said they were not keeping Alpine in the rotation please do, as everything I have seen them say on the subject said it was coming back.. people just want that sooner and for them not to break it before returning it. Players do not want them to change it is what is being stated.

Had you’d been following my comments you would see where I said they are probably upgrading AB and that will go back in. I doubt they will put in the exact old AB.

Back up and reread my comments.

Not “Upgrading it” if they are making the changes players do not want. Wanting the " alpine maps" kept in the rotation means the alpine maps, not some gimmicked out like the DBL maps that they call the alpine map.. Players are asking them not to do that and bring them back, until they make dbl maps that are more like alpine, not the other way around.

What they shouldn’t do is make the alpine maps like the hated DBLs. That is what players would consider " ruining them." It is a downgrade , not an upgrade if the players do not like the proposed changes.

Spending money making changes that make more players leave the game than want to play it with the changes = Fail.

Swagger.1459:

lil devils x.6071:

Swagger.1459:

lil devils x.6071:

Swagger.1459:

lil devils x.6071:

Swagger.1459:

lil devils x.6071:

Swagger.1459:

lil devils x.6071:

Swagger.1459:

lil devils x.6071:

Swagger.1459:

erKo.9586:

Thanks all for signing up in this thread!
Today at reset on Far Shiverpeaks(EU) there was instant 60+ queue on EB and no queue on the desert maps, and the que in eb grew bigger but no queue during the whole evening on the other borders. Thats enough proof for me.

We were already told the maps would come back…

They are probably upgrading AB, EB and making a snow map… I’m pretty sure we will have 4 unique maps to play on, and rotations will happen based on color placement for ranking… See how eotm does it?

Again, it was clearly said before. The devs also have all the statistics too so I’m sure they will change up the DB for the big update.

The voting won’t progress things faster, and at this point the old maps would be outdated for what they have in store. It’s probably best not to put them back in at this point because they will just have to replace them with a different AB anyway.

They are ignoring the numbers in hopes they can get PVE players into WvW, not understanding that PVE players don;t like PVP game modes and the ones that do are already plaything PvP and WvW. the rest of them rage quit if another player kills them.

“Their progress” IS the problem, and thus why they need players to tell them what they think about the direction they are taking it. The DBL’s are going the wrong direction all together IS the issue. WVW map design should be centered around keeping players engaged in challenging, fun, strategic PvP game play the majority of the time they are on a map. IF the core map design is not built around that very simple concept, it is a bad map. They built these maps to be the opposite. They cannot be " tweaked" to fix that is the issue. They actually have to take them back to the drawing board because:

1) They are too big, you spend more time running around wasting time instead of in PvP action. If you only have limited time to play, you do not want to spend it running around trying to find the action, you want to spend it IN the action. Think more like Courtyard, less like PVE zones for map design.

2)Horrible terrain for PvP. too many escape routes, fall damage, and environmental gimmicky BS. Needs a flatter, less bouncy gimmicky map to allow for players to stay in the PVP action rather than avoiding it or trying to get back to where the fight was only to find it over by the time you get to it. Make direct routs instead of trying to run players all over the place. It does not make fighting more challenging, fun or strategic to just make it take longer for players to get to the action due to terrain and environmental issues. That is just lame, not fun. They need to drop the idea of incorporating the battlefield into a jumping puzzle. The vast majority of players do not enjoy dying from fall damage more than they die from actual layers. That makes it a bad battlefield when the majority of players avoid it for that reason.

3) lack of strategic placement of anything.. They did not put much thought into actually making the objectives count for strategic positioning, When you took towers and keeps on Alpine maps, you had a reason to take or defend them due to the targets that could be hit from them and the advantage they would give on the battlefield. That w as lost with the design of these maps all together. It appears that was not even a thought when designing them.

4) Remove the PvE elements and Environmental Gimmicks from WvW.. We need less PVE in WvW and more PvP. 99.9% of GW is PVE, they can allow WvW players to have their tiny little corner without adding more PvE champs in there. Get rid of them and use the extra resources it frees up to allow more players in a zone without lagging instead. Making rocks come out of the ground does not enhance the match, it just irritates the players so they move somewhere that doesn’t happen to fight instead. If players are leaving an area to fight somewhere else instead because they think that zone sucks, that zones is not a well designed PvP zone.

5)Lack of water combat in WvW. At least on Alpine maps you were able to have underwater combat fights inside bay, south of keep and at SW camps…. Now WvW is lacking in Underwater combat due to shifting their focus to bouncy run away and avoid combat that players overwhelmingly do not enjoy.

What Anet fails to realize is that if they stay on track with their " progress" they will Kill WvW for good.. Continuing with the direction and theme of changes that they applied with HoT by replacing EBG with one of these garbage PvE maps will keep players out of WvW all together. They are currently huddled up on EBG because they hate the DBL maps so much that is their only retreat to enjoy WvW anymore. Remove that and you will lose those remaining players from the game.

Sure you will have the tiny percentage left that doesn’t care about the maps and doesn’t care if they play with friends.. but hat is what you call a dead game mode at that point.

I understand the frustrations.

I’m sure the devs are aware at this point given the feedback and stats. Just a waiting game at this point, and the devs know the players frustration because of that post by the devs saying “looks like we can talk about wvw so we will have some info”…

They know, but the old maps are not going to be dropped in just to take them out in whatever months at this point.

Being aware and acting on that awareness are two different things. Until we see new WvW team replacing the one we have it isn’t going to change. They said they were keeping the alpine maps in the rotation. The best thing they could do now to save the mode would be " rotate" back to alpine, leave it stuck there a bit while making new maps ( it doesn’t take a year to do that btw they just chose to make it so).

They should issue a statement stating they are aware of the issues and are trying to bring WvW players the maps they deserve, and that would be better than staying the course of action to replace EBG to try and force players onto the DBLS..

They can choose to save this or scrap it, and if they keep doing what they are doing.. it is all downhill from here. They very well could step up and say " we are going to make this right" but if they fail to do that, I am not sure it will be salvageable after they keep going the wrong way with it. Our guild used to run a solid 40+ core the majority of our raids.. we are down to 10 and under due to HoT. It isn’t just us either.. Everyone is playing other games / not interested in playing WvW in it’s current state and have lost hope that Anet will fix it.

I’m pretty sure the devs had a wake up call after last tournament, hence why they have been working on stuff already for a year. Also, the devs need to compete with a game like CU coming out, so GW2 can keep and attract more players.

The devs know the wvw gas tank is running on fumes at this point, but it’s just waiting time. Can’t make them work faster, but it’s reassuring that they have been up to something and that all engineers are coding away as we speak.

I don’t think the devs would ever come here and say they are happy with the current state of wvw either. Big stuff like this hits the pocket books so I’m sure they wished they would have invested sooner.

lil devils x.6071:

Edit- devs want all sorts of players in wvw, they just did it the wrong way with map completion stuff before. Once incentives are in place then everybody can find what appeals or encourages them to play. More players the better, but we all have to wait to find out.

Wanting all sorts of players doesn’t work in PvP game modes. Many games tried it. PvE players view WvW like the open world PvP games they refuse to play as it is. You either like to fight other players or you don’t. Some just don’t. Adding PvE to a PvP zone doesn’t change that, it just makes the players who want to PvP leave to a game that focuses on PvP instead.

I’m fully aware, but of course developers want to encourage more players to play different game modes. I never said anything about “adding pve to a pvp zone”, I said incentives. Incentives such as unique personal and guild rewards, some type of universal character progress, alternate progress options… There are a wide range of things to entice players that could be used.

We will just have to see what’s in store for wvw and these maps.

Their focus isn’t even on WvW, it is on trying to compete with MOBAas, which even Blizzard could not make WoW do. That failed terribly. The ONLY reason this takes so long is because WvW is not where hey are applying their resources. You can make things happen at the pace you dedicate the resources and man hours to. The pace for WvW is due to lack of " care" on their part moreso than anything. If they wished to dedicate the resources they are allocating to PvE and PvP updates, WvW would have been fixed long ago. The problem is their idea of " fixing it" will kill the game mode entirely.

Their current focus is on wvw.

Only moba can compete with moba, hence why ncsoft is working on two of them.

Of course resources were spread out, some to the year long wvw development and much more to the expansion.

You are kinda preaching to the choir, and I’m aware of what you are saying. Point is that there is going to be an update this year so the devs are not just going to throw in the old version of alpine back in at this point just to take it back out again. It’s at a point where the alpine map alone will not have the desired result of pulling in more players like you think. Players are tired of the same old at this point and wvw needs the “super secret” update to make anything substantial happen.

Honestly, if the devs switched maps today then most players wouldn’t really care now. You’d just have whatever die hards left on the maps and not much of anyone else. You’d still have the population disparities. You’d still have the same “zero” reward system. You’d still not have tournaments… It would just be wvw with the old alpine and same low population and interest level.

LMAO, no, their focus ISN’T on WvW..
Have you been paying attention?
MOBA..
http://www.eslgaming.com/interview/future-guild-wars-2-esports-and-pvp-interview-arenanet-team-1974
http://massivelyop.com/2015/11/27/guild-wars-2-sees-a-bright-future-in-e-sports/
http://massivelyop.com/2015/12/15/guild-wars-2-e-sports-team-ragequits-over-design-meta-technical-issues/
https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/announcing-the-esl-guild-wars-2-pro-league/
http://pro.eslgaming.com/gw2/proleague/

That is where all the resources have been going,…

If they switched maps today ques for EB would drop instantaneously and numbers would increase immediately. THAT is why they will not do it, it will show exactly how bad they wasted money making the DBLs… and could not blame anything else for the issues. No, they would not get pre HoT numbers, players are playing other games now that will not give them another chance since Anet burned that bridge, but it would have a very immediate and overwhelming response none the less. The longer they wait to do so the less of a response it will get simply because more people will have given up entirely on them by then.

Their resources are going to wvw for a year now, start of a new expansion, some to esports promo and a bunch of other stuff.

They removed AB to work on it along with the other stuff. DB was ready so they tossed that in to at least do something, but they will hopefully make changes. The devs just can’t throw in what’s not ready, nor will they just switch in the old AB map to replace with an updated AB map in whatever months.

If you are assuming I’m ok with the DB map or the pace of development I’m not, just being realistic here.

It isn’t ready because they were allocating resources to the wrong direction and have not allocated resources to taking wvw in the direction that players want to play. What they had ready was the opposite of what players wanted and why guilds have left and are talking about leaving GW2.

They are NOT however allocating enough resources to actually fixing it to where players consider the mode playable, for the past year, as seen above, they allocated more resources to their move to compete with MOBAs in Esports, as they have discussed in many interviews over the past year…

The hiring of people to work on multilevel zones is the opposite of what WvW players consider “playable.”

We could analyze this and that all day, but it won’t change things. The point is that the old AB maps are not just being tossed backed in. Everybody will just have to wait for the info, then the beta and following patch.

Or they could just leave and play something else because Anet didn’t listen ( like most have done already). They already waited.. too long. IS the point. ANet hasn’t said they weren’t putting Alpine back in, in fact they said the opposite, they stated Alpine was not being removed and would be kept in the rotation. Time to rotate before everyone else leaves as well…

If you can show me where they said they were not keeping Alpine in the rotation please do, as everything I have seen them say on the subject said it was coming back.. people just want that sooner and for them not to break it before returning it. Players do not want them to change it is what is being stated.

Had you’d been following my comments you would see where I said they are probably upgrading AB and that will go back in. I doubt they will put in the exact old AB.

Back up and reread my comments.

Hun they don’t have to keep something down to work on it. They can copy it over to their dev environment and work on things without any impact to the play server. I just want to know how long its going to be. (yes I know dev’s hate to nail a time frame) At this point I feel its more than fair to ask however given the amount of patients they have expected from us.

@kamara

I’m fully aware…

I’ve mentioned before that they are not just going to throw in the old map… Maps aren’t going to change until the big update.

@lil

Once again you are preaching to the choir. I’m just looking at things more realistically given all known factors and past experiences.

I personally feel the maps could use a visual upgrade and DB should be changed because it’s a terrible map. I assume a snow map is coming too.

Also, there will be more so expect new rewards, wvw specific rewards, mastery tracks, new achievements… tied to these maps. I’m assuming a lot more is going in than anyone can speculate, but we will just have to all wait and see just how in touch the devs are.

I want old maps back.

I would really get the old maps backs, but they wouldn’t be the same as before for me, because too many wvw players have left this game. Even a rotation of maps would be okay, so the desert bl could go to the red team, for more defense.
As I said before, the real problem is the lack of communication from development teams. They say, they are working on it, but you don’t read any progression about it. A tiny hint or spoiler here and there, would give most of us hope. Sure it has to be technically perfect and they should not ignore the concerns from the players and explain their decisions, so we would not have any problems with waiting for it (lol we have already waited long enough).

Anyone else think its typical that they’re not replying or even acknowledging this post? lol.

No.

I like CHANGE and something DIFFERENT, when it comes to mmos. It’s nice to play a game that seems to CHALLENGE it’s player base (bias toward WvW). Something NEW. Keeping the game FRESH.

…/rolls eyes

No.

I like CHANGE and something DIFFERENT, when it comes to mmos. It’s nice to play a game that seems to CHALLENGE it’s player base (bias toward WvW). Something NEW. Keeping the game FRESH.

…/rolls eyes

lil devils x.6071 wrote, “3) lack of strategic placement of anything.. They did not put much thought into actually making the objectives count for strategic positioning, When you took towers and keeps on Alpine maps, you had a reason to take or defend them due to the targets that could be hit from them and the advantage they would give on the battlefield. That was lost with the design of these maps all together. It appears that was not even a thought when designing them.”

This, I believe, is the second most major point of the fail of the map (the maze-like feel/verticality being the first). Enemy took SE/SW/NE/NW tower? No big deal, because it doesn’t threaten any other objective on the map. Add to that the fact that Anet decided that we don’t get the way points we used to have, and it reduces the player’s ability to rush to defend an objective.

I believe that if the Desert BL had the same strategic value objectives of Alpine and lost the mazes, giving us easier routes to objectives, and allowed us to use way points in our own objectives, no one would be asking for the return of the Alpine Borderlands. I believe it is these things that people want to have back, as many have mentioned. Anet completely missed the target on the DBL’s.

Part of the problem- again, this is my opinion- is that Anet dev’s only play on tier 1. That’s fine from an “in their free time” perspective, but as far as their JOB is concerned, they should be playing on mid and low tiers as well, to see what play is like when there is no que, and there is no blob vs blob play.

I’d really like to know what the reason was to place towers so far away from keeps that taking and holding them didn’t threaten said keeps. And why way points are denied to the home teams. What was this supposed to promote? We certainly know what it denied- but no one here seems to have found any upside to these changes.

I’m fortunate enough to be in a mid tier where we actually do have enemies on our borderland that we can fight, so I’m not losing out on any action there. But it sure would be nice to be able to move around the map without hindrance and get to the fight quickly. Changing the way point lock-out and flattening much of the terrain would go a long way to “fixing” the problems of the Desert BL’s,

Sinbold.8723:

I believe that if the Desert BL had the same strategic value objectives of Alpine and lost the mazes, giving us easier routes to objectives, and allowed us to use way points in our own objectives, no one would be asking for the return of the Alpine Borderlands.

Nope.

The more I play the new borderlands, the less I like them. It is obvious that the maps were not properly tested or designed for WvWvW in mind. There was a lot of useful feedback during the beta tests, but the developers chose to ignore that and publish the map anyways.

The new maps are more complex and thus more difficult for new comers. This will turn off a lot of new players. They come there once or twice, probably never again. This leads to diminishing player base and soon dead game besides EBG.

It doesn’t matter that after playing the new maps I start to get the find the routes and good spots for siege. The keeps and towers are simply too large – way too large, like 3x too large.

Too big doesn’t lead to better fights. It leads to less fights.

The shrines and powers associated to them are just annoyances. Anybody can solo a shrine (did it countless of times), but it ain’t gonna help when enemy has 25+ and you have 2-5 defenders and that is the typical situation – day after day.

The improved and more versatile guards and lords are another example of wasted developer resources. Yes, they provide a bit more challenge, but it is not going to give you better fights, just more a bit different pve experience. The new lords can still be soloed (done that). It just takes a bit longer time than before to solo a tower or a keep. Mainly because it takes longer time to travel from a supply camp to tower/keep and longer time to travel inside a tower or a keep, sighs… so more time is spent on travel, not on action. And yes, I am using the speed buffs. I don’t think this can be solved without drastic redesign of the map. Giving the lords more power would just make them too difficult for even most small groups meaning that outside prime time you cannot do anything else than camps.

The new maps have a lot of bugs and exploits, some have been demonstrated by videos posted to this forum e.g. gs+staff druids can “fly” into the air keep outer and inner (defeats the purpose of all walls and gates).

The central event simply needs to go. It generally just favors the side with more numbers to even more face roll the match up.

I could go on, but after thinking about this already for so many nights, I cannot invent any reasonable way to fix the new maps to make them as playable as the old maps. They just need to go. I would actually want to see the Desert BL redesigned into a pve dungeon. And yes, I would probably play that dungeon, but as pve, not as WvWvW.

I actually want the original Alpine back, despite it had its flaws e.g. I never understood the Skritt + centaur areas, just wasted space on map, if you ask me (now the new Desert BL still has those useless areas!!!). The ruins area (instead of lake) was another design failure, like some spvp copy and pasted on top of WvWvW map. Lake provided the water combat element for those who like it. That is more versatility. And nobody was forcing to use the lake.

Arenanet needs to stop trying to force WvWvW into spvp or pve map alike design. It requires its own unique map design philosophy.

lil devils x.6071:

If you can show me where they said they were not keeping Alpine in the rotation please do, as everything I have seen them say on the subject said it was coming back.. people just want that sooner and for them not to break it before returning it. Players do not want them to change it is what is being stated.

It is even in the notes on the Wiki:

The Desert Borderlands are planned to be on a rotation with the Alpine Borderlands.

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Desert_Borderlands

If the only reason they wont rotate it back now is due to it showing how much the DBL failed, that is just double fail.

It took me forever to find this quote:
www.gw2wvw.net/topic/new-wvw-mapMar 14, 2015 – The Desert Borderlands Map will be replacing the old Borderlands map (Alpine Borderlands) when the expansion releases and we might reintroduce the old map in a rotation or tournament…"

MIGHT. That’s sort of like, “Soon”, only worse.

Edit to add: Also found on Dulfy http://dulfy.net/2015/03/14/gw2-egx-wvw-desert-borderlands-map-reveal/

I have to call you out on this farce of a “vote.” By only listing those that are agreeing with you, you aren’t asking for a vote.

Believe it or not, a lot of people prefer the new borderlands. I know it goes against your rage, but you need to list them too.

Sinbold.8723:

lil devils x.6071:

If you can show me where they said they were not keeping Alpine in the rotation please do, as everything I have seen them say on the subject said it was coming back.. people just want that sooner and for them not to break it before returning it. Players do not want them to change it is what is being stated.

It is even in the notes on the Wiki:

The Desert Borderlands are planned to be on a rotation with the Alpine Borderlands.

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Desert_Borderlands

If the only reason they wont rotate it back now is due to it showing how much the DBL failed, that is just double fail.

It took me forever to find this quote:
www.gw2wvw.net/topic/new-wvw-mapMar 14, 2015 – The Desert Borderlands Map will be replacing the old Borderlands map (Alpine Borderlands) when the expansion releases and we might reintroduce the old map in a rotation or tournament…"

MIGHT. That’s sort of like, “Soon”, only worse.

Edit to add: Also found on Dulfy http://dulfy.net/2015/03/14/gw2-egx-wvw-desert-borderlands-map-reveal/

That was back from March, the official GW2 wiki was updated long after that.. Alpine IS going to be in rotation.

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

I have to call you out on this farce of a “vote.” By only listing those that are agreeing with you, you aren’t asking for a vote.

Believe it or not, a lot of people prefer the new borderlands. I know it goes against your rage, but you need to list them too.

A Lot more people do not prefer the new maps, the numbers speak for themselves. They could solve it very easily by bringing them back for a week to see the difference in numbers and time spent on them eh? Actions speak louder than words.

http://coveragewars2.com/death.php

lil devils x.6071:

That was back from March, the official GW2 wiki was updated long after that.. Alpine IS going to be in rotation.

Wishfull thinking. If Anet wanted alpine in rotation, they would have done it months ago. Getting it up to “HoT specs” would be simple, just repeat the EB migration – auto-upgrade 3 tiered towers, sentries that scout, change the waypoints to work like desert (no matter how much we despise them in the current implementation), done deal. Alpine HoT-ified, with all flaws but at least its in rotation again. Cant imagine this taking a tiny Anet team more than a couple of days/weeks.

If they really wanted it in rotation, they would have done this before HoT released and just enabled it a couple of weeks after.

And even IF they want to surprise us with a newly made, refreshed and impressive recreation of alpine… They could have kept old HoT-ified alpine in rotation and say they are working on a refresh. That would have given them calm seas in the community and lots of time to finish it in peace.

So no. I dont buy that. I see absolutely no indication from Anet to get alpine into WvW again. Abandon all hope, ye who cannot enter here because Anet kittening took it away.

Dawdler.8521:

lil devils x.6071:

That was back from March, the official GW2 wiki was updated long after that.. Alpine IS going to be in rotation.

Wishfull thinking. If Anet wanted alpine in rotation, they would have done it months ago. Getting it up to “HoT specs” would be simple, just repeat the EB migration – auto-upgrade 3 tiered towers, sentries that scout, change the waypoints to work like desert (no matter how much we despise them in the current implementation), done deal. Alpine HoT-ified, with all flaws but at least its in rotation again. Cant imagine this taking a tiny Anet team more than a couple of days/weeks.

If they really wanted it in rotation, they would have done this before HoT released and just enabled it a couple of weeks after.

And even IF they want to surprise us with a newly made, refreshed and impressive recreation of alpine… They could have kept old HoT-ified alpine in rotation and say they are working on a refresh. That would have given them calm seas in the community and lots of time to finish it in peace.

So no. I dont buy that. I see absolutely no indication from Anet to get alpine into WvW again. Abandon all hope, ye who cannot enter here because Anet kittening took it away.

No, they would not have done it months ago.. they hadn’t gotten that far on messing them up yet. They dont want them back yet because it will show how bad they messed up with DBLs.. they had every intention of bringing them into the rotation, the problem is when they do it now, investors will see immediately how much money they wasted on the DBL’s..

This is so insanely messed up in regards to actual numbers people lose jobs over things like this..

Why is it on the official wiki if they have no plans to do so?

A contest to create new maps. Winner gets job at Anet with design Dept or 10k US dollars. Something like that. Money is saved and money is made on both ends, both Anet and participants win. If you can’t give us the creation software than maybe it can be done through cloud design software? It’s not unheard of to relinquish a little publishing power to your player base.

As the maps are now. I have spent a fair amount of time there. I don’t like the distances. Who wants to defend these remote places? Not too many. It’s a long hike from one end of the map to the other. Also, everyone who I questioned wanted flying capabilities in the new maps. That would speed things up.

bradadad.8915:

A contest to create new maps. Winner gets job at Anet with design Dept or 10k US dollars. Something like that. Money is saved and money is made on both ends, both Anet and participants win. If you can’t give us the creation software than maybe it can be done through cloud design software? It’s not unheard of to relinquish a little publishing power to your player base.

As the maps are now. I have spent a fair amount of time there. I don’t like the distances. Who wants to defend these remote places? Not too many. It’s a long hike from one end of the map to the other. Also, everyone who I questioned wanted flying capabilities in the new maps. That would speed things up.

They need to let players choose the winners, and not let the people who designed the DBL vote . XD

They lose their vote because they do not understand what a fun, challenging, Strategic PvP environment is.

Flatter > flying though. The only problem with gliding in WvW is if non HoT players would not even be able to follow commanders on map since they could not glide and pins would do so losing part of their group. ALSO gliding is slow. They need to make maps with more direct routes to run and stop wasting everyone’s play time needlessly making them spend it running around doing nothing.
When you only have so long to play, you want to spend it in PvP action, not running around never getting to it.

bradadad.8915:

A contest to create new maps. Winner gets job at Anet with design Dept or 10k US dollars. Something like that. Money is saved and money is made on both ends, both Anet and participants win.

They dont even need that. They already have the basic formula of alpine, all they need to do is create different variations of it, spice things up a bit. Anet devs can concept 3 variations very quickly in addition to alpine (woodland, desert, jungle) with existing GW2 art. A while ago I already made a woodland/krytan variant of it as a very crude concept render and if I can then any schmuck can.

Yes, I do. [Signed]

I do.
I would be very surprised if statistics show them that the new BL are liked by the community.

- The new maps are too big. You rarely see other players, you have to run very far until you get to the action.
- Keeps are way to big for finding players that are hiding there. There is no point in looking for mesmers, as it is too easy for them to hide.
- The maps are enforcing WvE on the players, that’s not why people play WvW. Most people will play it to face other zergs.
- Since nobody wants to play on the BL, it is often just a karmatrain with nobody even bothering to defend. Nobody jumps over from EB, as you would have to stay in the empty BL until your queue for EB pops again.

Yes.

Anet pls, do us all a favor, admit you screwed up and give us our game mode back.

You do not have to pull maps out of rotation to fix them. That’s a lot of balony. You can fix multiple copies an upload or whatever they do make the map they want active then we get patched.

Desert map can go to hell for all I care, its a map full of gimmicky garbage. The alpine map needs to return and could use some fixes before it does, like fixing spawn areas to not allow siege use.

Get rid of the desert borderlands….