Guild Wars 2

GS auto is embarrassingly weak. I love the animations and everything else about the GS to be honest, but the auto compared to other melee GS classes is poor. Does anyone else think that a buff to the damage would improve this weapon set immensely?

At least it doesn’t hit like a wet noddle :P. Also, no. A damage buff on the auto attack would not improve the weapon. Reduced cast times on moves like [Maul] and the kick-portion of [Counterattack] would. GS auto seems (for the most part) fine.

A wet fish you say?

Last I checked, GS vs a dual Sword Mesmer hits pretty hard.

It was good in beta.

The damage is lower than other GSs, because Ranger GS is not a boring, one dimensional DPS weapon. Because evade on AA, evade on Swoop, block and knockback on Counterattack and daze/stun on hiltbash.

The animations need work for sure, but it doesn’t really need any more damage.

Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582:

The damage is lower than other GSs, because Ranger GS is not a boring, one dimensional DPS weapon. Because evade on AA, evade on Swoop, block and knockback on Counterattack and daze/stun on hiltbash.

The animations need work for sure, but it doesn’t really need any more damage.

I strongly disagree.

For a melee weapon, on a medium class, the DPS is exceptionally low.

the missing dps comes from our pet :P

My only complaint is hilt bash. I do wish it had a longer range or an animation change. Why does my stun root me? Seems counterproductive

Coarr.3286:

the missing dps comes from our pet :P

No, it does not.

Do you even care to run DPS spreadsheets, or just pull this out from thin air?

Pets comprise about 20% of our damage at best and the difference between ranger greatsword autoattack and warrior/guardian autoattacks are far greater than 20%.

Sube Dai.8496:

Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582:

The damage is lower than other GSs, because Ranger GS is not a boring, one dimensional DPS weapon. Because evade on AA, evade on Swoop, block and knockback on Counterattack and daze/stun on hiltbash.

The animations need work for sure, but it doesn’t really need any more damage.

I strongly disagree.

For a melee weapon, on a medium class, the DPS is exceptionally low.

I also strongly disagree with your viewpoint. It has low damage for a reason. But if you look only at the GS, yes, it is the lowest damage of all GSs. It also has by far the most utility and damage mitigation.

Then you have to look at how much damage a pet adds on top of that to get a true number of our total DPS with it. You have to look at how much damage you can mitigate with it too, but how you would calculate that is beyond me.

Zenith.7301:

Coarr.3286:

the missing dps comes from our pet :P

No, it does not.

Do you even care to run DPS spreadsheets, or just pull this out from thin air?

Pets comprise about 20% of our damage at best and the difference between ranger greatsword autoattack and warrior/guardian autoattacks are far greater than 20%.

Can you please show us said spreadsheets so we can put this to bed once and for all?

Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582:

Zenith.7301:

Coarr.3286:

the missing dps comes from our pet :P

No, it does not.

Do you even care to run DPS spreadsheets, or just pull this out from thin air?

Pets comprise about 20% of our damage at best and the difference between ranger greatsword autoattack and warrior/guardian autoattacks are far greater than 20%.

Can you please show us said spreadsheets so we can put this to bed once and for all?

https://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/2bem98/pve_nonfgs_dps_for_each_profession/

Next time do some of the homework yourself, I’m getting tired of being asked by people to go searching up again old knowledge as an attempt to shut down discussion.

lalex.6350:

GS auto is embarrassingly weak. I love the animations and everything else about the GS to be honest, but the auto compared to other melee GS classes is poor. Does anyone else think that a buff to the damage would improve this weapon set immensely?

It was very good in the BWE 1 and 2. Then Anet nerfed the GS auto attack by 50%, because it was synerging too well with the old quickening zephyr and the first version of rampage as one. Then, they changed quickness and RoA and kept GS#1 in the pits of hell.

I’d take faster animation on #2, and longer reach on #5, over higher damage on auto. This is from a PvP pov though, since GS’s other abilities than #1 kinda fits a hit-and-run playstyle than be-in-your-face-for-too-long.

I don’t know, wet fish seem to hit pretty hard to me…

Zenith.7301:

Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582:

Zenith.7301:

Coarr.3286:

the missing dps comes from our pet :P

No, it does not.

Do you even care to run DPS spreadsheets, or just pull this out from thin air?

Pets comprise about 20% of our damage at best and the difference between ranger greatsword autoattack and warrior/guardian autoattacks are far greater than 20%.

Can you please show us said spreadsheets so we can put this to bed once and for all?

https://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/2bem98/pve_nonfgs_dps_for_each_profession/

Next time do some of the homework yourself, I’m getting tired of being asked by people to go searching up again old knowledge as an attempt to shut down discussion.

You asked the question about DPS spreadsheets, meaning you either made one or know where one is, since you were having a go at someone else for having not read one, its only decent that you do. Burden of proof and all. Since you made out you had that knowledge, its not unfair to expect you to pass it on.
Well, being over a year old, yeah, that is old knowledge. But I didn’t ask to shut down the discussion, I asked so I could read it too, because a lot of numbers are bandied around with regards to how much damage the pet does, so having access to exact math would be nice, to know definitively.

Too bad its too old to be accurate.

Greatsword is a utility weapon with decent burst damage. Stop treating it like a dps weapon, that’s just not gonna happen.

My issue with it is that I want to make a build around it. For me its the best “feeling” weapon in the game. Yes the utility is awesome, but the lack of damage makes it an on-swap, second weapon at best.

People don’t take GS in a lb/GS build for its damage. But there is no power alternative either.

You can’t pair GS with anything and have it be the main source of damage.

Sube Dai.8496:

My issue with it is that I want to make a build around it. For me its the best “feeling” weapon in the game. Yes the utility is awesome, but the lack of damage makes it an on-swap, second weapon at best.

People don’t take GS in a lb/GS build for its damage. But there is no power alternative either.

You can’t pair GS with anything and have it be the main source of damage.

You could pair it with A/D

I think if 0.25s was cut off the AA (the 3rd link in the chain) and the animations were fixed/sped up considerably, it would be perfect. Oh, and I always use Intelligence Sigil on my GS, for Maul immediately after swap, crit maul is very good damage, as well as a crit Counterattack, its pretty great imo.

Coarr.3286:

the missing dps comes from our pet :P

Partly this. A trend I’ve noticed among all ranger skills is that they are all technically sub-par. The ranger is purposefully built at 75% capacity, assuming that the pet will make up for the difference.

I haven’t done any personal calculations to see how much damage the pet does, but from personal experience (I.E. accidentally leaving the pet on passive), the damage definitely isn’t negligible.

Also, it is quite hard to get an accurate pet DPS, since how much damage the pet does depends on weapon and build. Greatsword builds are good at stacking vulnerability, sword builds are good at stacking might, etc..

All in all, even if the greatsword does 16.6% less DPS than the sword, I still find it to be more useful. The evades keep me alive, the vulnerability is good, and I like the cleave it has. Also it doesn’t animation lock me..

GS on Ranger isn’t a DPS weapon.

It’s a Defensive Burst weapon. Maul says “hi”.

The Auto Attack isn’t meant to do Damage as much as it’s meant to keep you alive until Maul is off Cooldown. Swoop in turn Provides Great Mobility, Counterattack takes care of Defenses and Hilt Bash is all about that Set-up.

The GS auto could stand a DPS increase, but not a drastic one. And I’d rather it kept its Evade than lost it in favor or more DPS.

TheSwede.9512:

…The GS auto could stand a DPS increase, but not a drastic one. And I’d rather it kept its Evade than lost it in favor or more DPS.

Wholeheartedly agree.

Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582:

The damage is lower than other GSs, because Ranger GS is not a boring, one dimensional DPS weapon. Because evade on AA, evade on Swoop, block and knockback on Counterattack and daze/stun on hiltbash.

The animations need work for sure, but it doesn’t really need any more damage.

The guardian leap, blind, combo condi cleanse and pull isn’t exactly one dimensional either.

The autos on the ranger could easily be umped up to feel a little less like you’re hitting people with a wet nuddle. I do however prefer the proposed changes to it’s attack speeds to make it feel more like a nimble weapon that makes perfect sense for a ranger.

They wouldn’t have to lower the damage as they’re low enough as it is, and it would provide a minor dps increase to the weapon while fixing the somewhat sluggish feel of it at the same time.

So, I found some more data, I cannot seem to open the spreadsheet myself, but here is the link to the reddit.

https://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/3fsjiy/ranger_dps_for_pve_after_20150728/

According to them, the pet is only responsible for 15-17% of the Ranger’s Damage, which is a big eye opener since about 30% was the readily accepted norm for pet damage.

I lieu of that info, if it is indeed correct, then I agree that GS can do with a dps increase, most of our weapons could, in fact.

Sube, Check out this build if you want to run a GS-centric build.

http://metabattle.com/wiki/Build:Ranger_-_Shout_Sword

Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582:

So, I found some more data, I cannot seem to open the spreadsheet myself, but here is the link to the reddit.

https://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/3fsjiy/ranger_dps_for_pve_after_20150728/

According to them, the pet is only responsible for 15-17% of the Ranger’s Damage, which is a big eye opener since about 30% was the readily accepted norm for pet damage.

I lieu of that info, if it is indeed correct, then I agree that GS can do with a dps increase, most of our weapons could, in fact.

Readily accepted by people who sworn to old numbers. I pointed this out in a thread some weeks ago.

The numbers are even lower in a pvp setting where the pet is having a harder time connecting attacks.

Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582:

Zenith.7301:

Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582:

Zenith.7301:

Coarr.3286:

the missing dps comes from our pet :P

No, it does not.

Do you even care to run DPS spreadsheets, or just pull this out from thin air?

Pets comprise about 20% of our damage at best and the difference between ranger greatsword autoattack and warrior/guardian autoattacks are far greater than 20%.

Can you please show us said spreadsheets so we can put this to bed once and for all?

https://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/2bem98/pve_nonfgs_dps_for_each_profession/

Next time do some of the homework yourself, I’m getting tired of being asked by people to go searching up again old knowledge as an attempt to shut down discussion.

You asked the question about DPS spreadsheets, meaning you either made one or know where one is, since you were having a go at someone else for having not read one, its only decent that you do. Burden of proof and all. Since you made out you had that knowledge, its not unfair to expect you to pass it on.
Well, being over a year old, yeah, that is old knowledge. But I didn’t ask to shut down the discussion, I asked so I could read it too, because a lot of numbers are bandied around with regards to how much damage the pet does, so having access to exact math would be nice, to know definitively.

Too bad its too old to be accurate.

This is ignorant.

Right there in the link the jaguar is calculated at 1600 dps max of the ranger’s best DPS spec sitting around 8k+ DPS. That’s 20% of the damage. Drake peaks at 1100 DPS, that’s 13.75% of the total DPS.

With the specialization changes the ranger’s DPS went up. The pet received 150 power and precision and ferocity, let’s treat that as a generous 10% performance boost.

Standard ranger 1h sword zerker DPS build is doing now 14-15k DPS, condi build is doing close to 16-17k DPS.

So a jaguar with a 10% boost now does ~1800 DPS at peak performance. That’s 13% of your damage on the lower range greatsword 14k DPS build. Even if by some miracle the specialization bumped pet damage by 20%, it’d still make up 14% of our DPS.

The ranger’s damage with the specialization went up considerably more than the pet did.

I’m glad you’ve managed to update your views with some research of your own.

The fact is, pets are terrible designed. They cannot reach our ferocity levels, meaning their percentage of our damage does not have as much crit damage, they do not benefit from food, they do not benefit from sigils or runes, and they don’t upgrade with ascended armor stat increases.

We need a kitten minor just so we can share boons with them, which should be baseline.

Even worse, our most competitive DPS pet, the jaguar, still does too low damage to allow us to compete, it does not cleave (only the much less damaging drakes do), and is far more fragile.

We begged arenanet in beta to make pets not a class mechanic of the ranger and they had the nerve to stick us with it and then abandon the feature to neglect. We didn’t even gain proper control of whn our pets use their other abilities besides f2. Liadri and Glint’s instance was the clearest example that they didn’t even care to design with the ranger in mind.

I don’t even understand why they’re so incapable of letting pets scale and benefit from everything the master has. Mesmers have something close to this with phantasms, who scale off their power/crit/crit damage values, only missing out on sigils and trait % damage modifiers.

With the introduction of full ascended people will have a ~10% boost that benefits all their damage sources, and yet a best case scenario of 14% of the ranger’s damage will NOT gain any benefit from ascended stat gear.

More importantly, what this tells you is if in PvE any pets besides drake/jaguar are to see any use, their horrendous DPS will need to be brought up to jaguar levels of mediocrity. Moa and Bear and ranged pets do such pitiful damage, bear and moa do less than a single stack burning tick, it’s just terrible.

The number in pvp would be higher (percentage wise) not lower as connection issues are the same in wvw but one is able to use consumables to boost damage.

How are you going to compare pet damage to ranger damage when the ranger is receiving benefits from fury and might while the pet isn’t (This damage is increased by the vulnerability from open strike).

I’m glad he has video so we can see whats going on . Its one of the reason I don’t take even groups like [DNT]’ s as gospel. I think they have even stated they don’t calculate pet damage.

The 30% percent seem about right. This percentage doesn’t have to be based of the the highest weapons sets dps. Fractoring that we were given about a 15% dps increase with the patch and the GS is 12% lower than LB/S-A and Beastmaster was not used, 30% sound right.

Serraphin Storm.2369:

The number in pvp would be higher (percentage wise) not lower as connection issues are the same in wvw but one is able to use consumables to boost damage.

How are you going to compare pet damage to ranger damage when the ranger is receiving benefits from fury and might while the pet isn’t (This damage is increased by the vulnerability from open strike).

I’m glad he has video so we can see whats going on . Its one of the reason I don’t take even groups like [DNT]’ s as gospel. I think they have even stated they don’t calculate pet damage.

The 30% percent seem about right. This percentage doesn’t have to be based of the the highest weapons sets dps. Fractoring that we were given about a 15% dps increase with the patch and the GS is 12% lower than LB/S-A and Beastmaster was not used, 30% sound right.

…….Except right in that link they do calculate pet DPS. This is hopeless. I can only hope this game gets DPS meters at some point so people like you can stop spewing this crap.

The issue is how they calculated the pet damage. If you really want to see the dps there are 3rd party dps meter that some groups use. From what I understand they cant be used on pets.

Did you look at the videos in the spreadsheet or did you just take the numbers at face value.

Why would you go down NM line with: 1:3:3 When going zephr’s speed would boost both ranger and pet damage and pets would get the 150 stat bonuses.

If the 30% pet damage was correct before the last patch then 26% is where pets would be now compared to lb/s-a s damage.

I do understand that with NM pet would get 25 might stack and any other boon that the ranger would get in a normal group environment, But to give the ranger boons and then not give any to the pet when they normally would have some and call it a dps calculation comparison is bs.

Zephyr’s Speed will not override 25 stacks of might fulltime as well as fury.

And if it irks you so much there are calculations with BM instead as well. If you really think that will bump a 14% damage pet all the way to 30% I have a bridge to sell you.

lol Zenith is salty and condescending as always.

Those spreadsheets: Don’t act like everyone should have them bookmarked. Its not common knowledge and linking them when referencing them is a common courtesy. None of those year old builds have BM. Those pet dps calcs are missing +300 all stats. Kind of a big deal. If there are some year old calculations that did include BM, then they lost out on stats from Skirmishing and MM so they are equally worthless today. This is before quickdraw and the changes to remorseless / OS also, and the change to power/crit/ferocity stats coming from trait lines, also a big deal.

None of that has this or that to do with OPs topic of GS auto’s being wet noodles:
OP:
Yes, GS auto’s are weak. But, and this is a big but: GS is the DPS melee weapon for Warriors and Guardians and a utility weapons for Rangers. Our DPS weapon is 1h sword.

Compare apples to apples. If you instead compare 1h sword to warrior and guardian GS i think you will find the numbers much more to your liking.

Greatsword auto is fine. If you want GS damage spec remorselessness for +25% maul. mainhand sword is dps weapon, GS is burst utility weapon.

Well this got off-topic fast.

Remember when Maul applied 3 stacks of bleeding? LEL. Too OP. So they had to change it to vuln.

Zatoichi.1049:

Greatsword auto is fine. If you want GS damage spec remorselessness for +25% maul. mainhand sword is dps weapon, GS is burst utility weapon.

Mainhand sword has 66.6% of it’s skills devoted entirely to evades and only has one skill from an offhand that can realistically be considered a serious dps increase.

It’s literally only considered “the dps sword” because GS hits like a pool noodle.

If GS did more damage, your opinion would be the exact opposite.

Substance E.4852:

Zatoichi.1049:

Greatsword auto is fine. If you want GS damage spec remorselessness for +25% maul. mainhand sword is dps weapon, GS is burst utility weapon.

Mainhand sword has 66.6% of it’s skills devoted entirely to evades and only has one skill from an offhand that can realistically be considered a serious dps increase.

It’s literally only considered “the dps sword” because GS hits like a pool noodle.

If GS did more damage, your opinion would be the exact opposite.

I completely agree and since they added evade frames to swoop, I think it is extremely justified to remove the evade from auto in exchange for a damage bump. By people’s logic in this thread, sword is the “evade weapon” with its utility and thus shouldn’t be doing damage, while GS is obviously the burst weapon and should get damage buffs.

kitten our auto coefficients are stupid, but thats ok tho bc we get those evade frames and I also can’t forget about all that pet damage to account for.

I don’t even get why people call GS a utility weapon. Whirling Defenses or an extra blast finisher from call of the wild is far better utility to your group, and you still get leaps via monarch’s leap to blast water fields with.

This is the problem with a competing pvp versus pve population, what pvp people find valuable is completely worthless to a pve crowd.

Zenith.7301:

This is the problem with a competing pvp versus pve population, what pvp people find valuable is completely worthless to a pve crowd.

Pretty much.

Zenith.7301:

I don’t even get why people call GS a utility weapon. Whirling Defenses or an extra blast finisher from call of the wild is far better utility to your group, and you still get leaps via monarch’s leap to blast water fields with.

This is the problem with a competing pvp versus pve population, what pvp people find valuable is completely worthless to a pve crowd.

…if you’re running PvE speed clears, sure.

A weapon devoted to not dying can just as equally be considered a utility weapon. A utility weapon performs roles that the other available ones cannot.

Ask any thief what their utility weapon is. Almost all of them will respond shortbow. PvP players will not say it’s because of its blasts but because it offers the best mobility and evades on the class. No other weapon is as defensive.

Guards say staff, because it enables offensive pressure through stacking might and swiftness.

Warriors say longbow because it offers ranged pressure and reliable CI procs.

Necros say staff because it offers long range and LF generation with AOE potential.

Mesmers say staff of torch because they offer durability in the forms of damage avoidance and stealth.

Eles will say staff because of its AOE potential and CC/direct group buffs.

See the trend? Utility isn’t just about stacking 25 group might and enabling some heals and pressing 1.

GS is not a PvE weapon. Although, I don’t know why anyone would complain anyway, you can literally use anything for PvE where DPS is the only consideration, and even then, only makes a difference to time until win, nothing more.

Please stop calling for removal of the AA evade for more damage. Go play Warrior GS if you want that. Ranger GS/spear are the only weapons in the game with this excellent damage mitigation and other utility.

Sword/dagger has 3 built in evades that also poison or cipple and create blast fields, and somehow its damage is not total garbage so why should greatsword be any different.

Nobody is asking they remove the evade. They’re asking they buff the autoattack.

DeceiverX.8361:

Zenith.7301:

I don’t even get why people call GS a utility weapon. Whirling Defenses or an extra blast finisher from call of the wild is far better utility to your group, and you still get leaps via monarch’s leap to blast water fields with.

This is the problem with a competing pvp versus pve population, what pvp people find valuable is completely worthless to a pve crowd.

…if you’re running PvE speed clears, sure.

A weapon devoted to not dying can just as equally be considered a utility weapon. A utility weapon performs roles that the other available ones cannot.

Ask any thief what their utility weapon is. Almost all of them will respond shortbow. PvP players will not say it’s because of its blasts but because it offers the best mobility and evades on the class. No other weapon is as defensive.

Guards say staff, because it enables offensive pressure through stacking might and swiftness.

Warriors say longbow because it offers ranged pressure and reliable CI procs.

Necros say staff because it offers long range and LF generation with AOE potential.

Mesmers say staff of torch because they offer durability in the forms of damage avoidance and stealth.

Eles will say staff because of its AOE potential and CC/direct group buffs.

See the trend? Utility isn’t just about stacking 25 group might and enabling some heals and pressing 1.

You do realize 1h sword uses whirling defense for reflects, path of scars for the group pull and monarch’s leap blasts water fields, right?

In fact most BM bunkers run not the greatsword but 1h sword particularly because its evades can be controlled and give you extra mobility and monarch leap is comparable to swoop.

Greatsword is used because it’s the only melee weapon with some burst, however miserable it is. It’s not like rangers are gonna run double bows or longbow/mainhand axe.

It’s a DPS weapon.

Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582:

Please stop calling for removal of the AA evade for more damage. Go play Warrior GS if you want that. Ranger GS/spear are the only weapons in the game with this excellent damage mitigation and other utility.

Remember when the evade on the chain was almost removed because Jon Peters thought it was too RNG? Glad it didn’t happen.

Don’t take away the evade frames from GS auto! That is one reason why I absolutely love the Ranger Greatsword. So awesome in WvW for roaming and zerging! If you just wanna add some damage thats fine but don’t take away any utiltiy/evade or whatever. I still think the GS #5 needs some improvement to be more reliable.

lol, how can you say a weapon has terrible DPS then also claim it is a DPS weapon? The AA is over 50% evasion with the lowest GS damage game-wide, Maul is a short CD burst, Swoop is evasion with mobility, counterattack is mitigation + interrupt, hilt bash is interrupt with small pet burst. How is that DPS?

Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582:

GS is not a PvE weapon. Although, I don’t know why anyone would complain anyway, you can literally use anything for PvE where DPS is the only consideration, and even then, only makes a difference to time until win, nothing more.

Please stop calling for removal of the AA evade for more damage. Go play Warrior GS if you want that. Ranger GS/spear are the only weapons in the game with this excellent damage mitigation and other utility.

Actually I could play any other class with greatsword and have more damage bc our coefficients are kitten for no reason. Even Reaper’s auto is going to hit harder than ranger, but are they going to look at ranger gs damage in turn? Nop. All that “utility” tho so I guess we can just keep saying it’s ok and that we like the fact that gs damage is lol.

Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582:

lol, how can you say a weapon has terrible DPS then also claim it is a DPS weapon? The AA is over 50% evasion with the lowest GS damage game-wide, Maul is a short CD burst, Swoop is evasion with mobility, counterattack is mitigation + interrupt, hilt bash is interrupt with small pet burst. How is that DPS?

It has a burst combo on it? It was obviously designed as a spike weapon. That doesn’t also mean that the dps is good, just that it should be good.

Neither of those posts made any sense. Love your sig btw.

Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582:

Neither of those posts made any sense. Love your sig btw.

They both seem pretty clear to me. The salt is strong.