Guild Wars 2

Jesiah.2457:

I keep seeing people crying for counter play to stealth on threads, but this isn’t counter play. There is no counter play to something you cannot counter which =/= counter play. If you get hit by the massive amount of endless spam engineers have, it doesn’t matter how much you dodge / avoid damage, one little mistake in that huge aoe spam fest and lolrevealed.

Hmm, for some reason, that made me think of an idea. Thieves will already take damage from AoE spam. Why not just flip this thing backwards? Instead of revealing AND damaging the thief, why not just reveal the thief and make the thief do 0 damage for the next 6 seconds… as well as giving the thief 6 seconds of invulnerability?

Basically, just neutralize the thief for 6 seconds.

Oops… I think I may have just given Anet their next idea for an engi trait! :-(

I don’t care about the reveal I only about the execution giving a reveal on hit to an all out of AoE clas was the least creative “counter” you could come up with props to him for other engi changes but he needs a L for that one. That class is already close to being a thief counter and already has a reveal skill ignoring that the execution of the trait was real poor.

are thieves and mesmers really going to be top dogs in PvP once patch hits?

or will only one class in effect stand at the top of the food chain?

Will the engineers destroy everything relating to stealth!??

Rank your thieves here in the PvP rankings!

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/pvp/PvP-landscape-Upheaval-Rise-of-the-Mesmers/first#post5183292

EremiteAngel.9765:

are thieves and mesmers really going to be top dogs in PvP once patch hits?

or will only one class in effect stand at the top of the food chain?

Will the engineers destroy everything relating to stealth!??

Rank your thieves here in the PvP rankings!

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/pvp/PvP-landscape-Upheaval-Rise-of-the-Mesmers/first#post5183292

umm it’s like you are desperate for some type of ‘karma’ for lots of postings or something…

That is wrong to spam a forum full of different video threads just because, and now spamming multiple threads just to get people to pay attention to some thread you want noticed. That is pure spam.

Back to topic though,

Sagat.3285:

I don’t care about the reveal I only about the execution giving a reveal on hit to an all out of AoE clas was the least creative “counter” you could come up with props to him for other engi changes but he needs a L for that one. That class is already close to being a thief counter and already has a reveal skill ignoring that the execution of the trait was real poor.

In WvW, I think the trait is too long on reveal, a bit fast on the cooldown, as I said before I don’t think it should reveal at range either, and fighting an engi is already risky for many thief types unless the engi is very glassy. I don’t keep track of PvP really because I don’t play thief or engi there, but it should be similar situation although different builds for PvP. Feels like though it will encourage people to (even more) look at roster in pvp, “oh I see a thief on other team” and switch to engi real quick. I don’t agree with changing classes after you go in pvp, yet when I have gone in with friends, often someone on other team does end up switching but that’s an argument for pvp forum and besides it seems the majority doesn’t care.

But this is a combination of the fact engi has always been rather powerful, it just had a high skill cap to learn, has a ton of AoE, could already put 6s of reveal on you every 30s when you aren’t in stealth, and now put additional 6s on you while you are in stealth. If the thief relies on stealth for damage this has the capability to shut down a thief for nearly 12s straight if they chain the trait followed by utility goggles toolbelt, akin to dazing a player for about the same length of time and it ignoring -condi duration, not exactly the same comparison but similar. They didn’t like Power Block from Mesmer affecting Thieves and auto attacks, yet this is a good idea on a class with lots of AoE?

Can effectively eliminate dagger mainhand’s non-heartseeker spamming damage for up to 12s. Great counter play on something that couldn’t exactly be spammed anyways. As a d/d thief, I have always been cautious around wars, engis, d/d eles (and condi ele) but will still fight them, either to try and kill or just to toy with. But now I see it as I will have to completely avoid engineers that may run the trait, or switch to it on the fly, because even in a group fight I become a liability instead of an asset to my friends. Since I don’t like other thief play-styles (except when doing something silly), I’m considering avoiding thief until everything settles, so it makes for a great counter that way. On plus side it encourages me to look at all the other characters after patch, but I’d rather choose than be pushed >.> oh well.

The counterplay to stealth has always been swing wildly in the air and hope you hit something, except that now with this trait doing that is actually rewarded.

Its not like you are auto revealed within a certain distance or anything. There is play on both sides, the engineer has to estimate where the thief could be and the thief has to evade those attacks while getting in poistion to do whatever he needs.

Penguin.5197:

The counterplay to stealth has always been swing wildly in the air and hope you hit something, except that now with this trait doing that is actually rewarded.

Its not like you are auto revealed within a certain distance or anything. There is play on both sides, the engineer has to estimate where the thief could be and the thief has to evade those attacks while getting in poistion to do whatever he needs.

If the engineer watches a thief go into shadow refuge and cant figure out where they are, that player needs an icepick lobotomy.

It is not always an either or when choosing speedy kits over lockon.

An engineer can equip speedy kits for most situations and as soon as a thief encountered that using stealth just switch out the trait on the fly. It not that hard. My ranger does this all the time with Sic em. It rarely traited but as soon as I encounter a theif that relies on a lot of stealth it rather easy to get out of battle and turn it on.

Of course this harder to do in a 1 v 1 but in group fights it will not be that difficult and since the reveal triggers thieves IN stealth is superior to Sic em.

A thief will have to counter this by being much more mobile after stealthing. Unlike so many other classes that can remain relatively immobile and dish out and take damage , the thief has to be moving all the time.

Thieves will also have to recognize the “tell” of this skill if there is one.

Drennon.7190:

Penguin.5197:

The counterplay to stealth has always been swing wildly in the air and hope you hit something, except that now with this trait doing that is actually rewarded.

Its not like you are auto revealed within a certain distance or anything. There is play on both sides, the engineer has to estimate where the thief could be and the thief has to evade those attacks while getting in poistion to do whatever he needs.

If the engineer watches a thief go into shadow refuge and cant figure out where they are, that player needs an icepick lobotomy.

This made me laugh, if only because how right he is.

I’m fully gonna run lock on all the time because I’ve never much liked speedy kits and now it’s merged with a trait with an awkward effect it’s less appealing to me again. Since I’m already taking inventions for bunker down, the 25% trait will do for me. I’m probably not the only engi player thinking this either.

Penguin.5197:

The counterplay to stealth has always been swing wildly in the air and hope you hit something, except that now with this trait doing that is actually rewarded.

Its not like you are auto revealed within a certain distance or anything. There is play on both sides, the engineer has to estimate where the thief could be and the thief has to evade those attacks while getting in poistion to do whatever he needs.

ok you evade grenades, supply crate, F5 on the supply crate to detonate all the turrets, while sitting inside the little Shadow refuge and/or trying to get away >.>

Randomly attacking an area that you thought the thief was at has always rewarded, you know, by actually still doing damage… Stealth really isn’t that difficult to fight against when you know what the thief is going to do. Couldn’t tell you how many times I’ve downed a thief that was in stealth just by figuring out where they were and what they were going to do next. Of course, the advantage is having played thief so there is that, but that’s a learning to counter stealth issue. I’ve always said play a class you have a hard time fighting against, specifically play the builds you have a hard time fighting against. You’ll learn a lot.

Even the fact they can hit near themselves and reveal fine whatever, it’s that it is assumed they can trigger the trait with all the aoe (which itself makes it difficult to get near an engineer spamming them), especially at range. You cannot dodge everything, and a thief is not in stealth 24/7 (well it’s possible but you won’t do any damage really). Often they are visible (well d/p often isn’t but the smoke field is obvious) so there is little assumption as to where they are… and shadow refuge is most definitely obvious.

Penguin.5197:

The counterplay to stealth has always been swing wildly in the air and hope you hit something, except that now with this trait doing that is actually rewarded.

Its not like you are auto revealed within a certain distance or anything. There is play on both sides, the engineer has to estimate where the thief could be and the thief has to evade those attacks while getting in poistion to do whatever he needs.

Lmfao this is engi we are talking about engi doesn’t even struggle vs thief.

Jana.6831:

Kageseigi.2150:

Jana.6831:

There can’t be – either the thief is disabeled (revealed) or he isn’t (he can stealth) – there is nothing in between.

I think that’s what he is suggesting… for Anet to create something in between.

Ok, then do me a favour and theorycraft how that will work. The regen for 6 seconds is ~2k heal, the condi remove would be what’s most important for that time. And the backstab.

Make a scenario how sparkle would work out – for both sides.
I’m still pretty convinced it wouldn’t work, but maybe it would, so bring it on =)

The only thing I think would be acceptable would be if the thief is discovered but not revealed.

The sparkle was a reference to another game just as an example.

Are you for real not getting it or just trolling? “discovered but not revealed” is what I’ve been talking about. Either way, I don’t see discussion with you getting anywhere, I give up.

Kind of like the sparkle idea. The location of the thief is known. He still has the defense of inability to target him (makes ranged attacks much less efficient) and can still use abilities only accessible in stealth.

What it doesn’t change is it’s a hard counter on one very specific class. Sure, other classes can stealth, but it’s not anywhere near as important or used in as many builds as thief. Better to change the reveal so it helps in more situations but isn’t that hard of a counter, but sparkles beats this.

Jayden Ennok.3687:

Jana.6831:

Kageseigi.2150:

Jana.6831:

There can’t be – either the thief is disabeled (revealed) or he isn’t (he can stealth) – there is nothing in between.

I think that’s what he is suggesting… for Anet to create something in between.

Ok, then do me a favour and theorycraft how that will work. The regen for 6 seconds is ~2k heal, the condi remove would be what’s most important for that time. And the backstab.

Make a scenario how sparkle would work out – for both sides.
I’m still pretty convinced it wouldn’t work, but maybe it would, so bring it on =)

The only thing I think would be acceptable would be if the thief is discovered but not revealed.

The sparkle was a reference to another game just as an example.

Are you for real not getting it or just trolling? “discovered but not revealed” is what I’ve been talking about. Either way, I don’t see discussion with you getting anywhere, I give up.

kittenmit, every time people don’t think but just blubber what is on their mind and I ask what they meant they call me a troll – good argument.

Your plan wouldn’t work and I tried to make you think about that so you would see it yourself. You want them to be visible but not stealthed.
So for that you would have to disable cloak and dagger/ blinding powder plus all skills that stealth – thieves use initative, so you would have to deny them initative, thus they couldn’t do anything but 1111. In that case it’s just as good as being revealed as they can’t really do anything in that state as well, but at least they can try to escape by using their weaponskills/skills.
Get it?

Jana.6831:

Your plan wouldn’t work and I tried to make you think about that so you would see it yourself. You want them to be visible but not stealthed.
So for that you would have to disable cloak and dagger/ blinding powder plus all skills that stealth – thieves use initative, so you would have to deny them initative, thus they couldn’t do anything but 1111. In that case it’s just as good as being revealed as they can’t really do anything in that state as well, but at least they can try to escape by using their weaponskills/skills.
Get it?

That does not sound like what he’s saying. The glitter idea is that the thief’s location is revealed by the sparkle, but they are still in stealth. So all perks from being in stealth still happen. The thief can still use the stealth version of the 1 skill. Heck, they may even avoid targeting. The only difference is the enemy knows where they are.

Most people are not morons. Arguing that a thief is “revealed, but not stealthed” makes absolutely zero sense. (Think about it. The word “but” implies an exception to the first statement. How is “not stealthed” an exception to “revealed?”) Typically it’s best to assume the other guy is not insane. Look for a possible explanation and confirm that explanation is correct if needed.

uglydan.1638:

Thief is going to get garbage for their “balancing”. Played since beta, and that’s basically SOP.

Does Anet have anyone that actually plays the game?

Here, fixed that for ya

tbh, as an engineer I wouldn’t take it. it’s a good trait sure, but you really don’t need it. you can just spam AOE at your feet and most thieves will try and tank it. the rest of them switch to shortbow so i can nail them with hipshot.p

most thieves I encounter in pvp play like they have been recently lobotomised and think eating 1k+ bomb autos plus condis twice a second is a great idea. most of them are so eager they teleport into the AOE.

Kury.8210:

That does not sound like what he’s saying. The glitter idea is that the thief’s location is revealed by the sparkle, but they are still in stealth. So all perks from being in stealth still happen. The thief can still use the stealth version of the 1 skill. Heck, they may even avoid targeting. The only difference is the enemy knows where they are.

Most people are not morons. Arguing that a thief is “revealed, but not stealthed” makes absolutely zero sense. (Think about it. The word “but” implies an exception to the first statement. How is “not stealthed” an exception to “revealed?”) Typically it’s best to assume the other guy is not insane. Look for a possible explanation and confirm that explanation is correct if needed.

How would you realize that in game, it has to do something to the thief as well, right?

I didn’t get your second part – or better – I think you guys are thinking about something that can’t be realized that’s why I asked for a accurate description of “your” ideas – I don’t think that that would work and asked to explain “your” ideas to me – but no one did just “you’re a troll – you don’t get what I mean by glitter” – how should I?

Edit: And with that I think I better shut up – Just maybe anet themselves think that being revealed isn’t that bad and that it’s basically “glitter” – and I don’t agree with that.
Edit ²: Bad english day

@Jana: Guess I’ll give another go at explaining the glitter idea.

-First off, this glitter effect would be replacing the engineer’s ability to put stealthers it hits in revealed status. The glitter is a new effect.

-Second, all glitter would do it create a visual effect where the stealthed thief is. The thief is still stealthed and gains all traited benefits from being stealthed. It’s just the glitter is telling everyone where he is.

If you still think the idea is bonkers and makes no sense, that’s fine. I’ll just follow your lead and we can agree to disagree.

Got interested in the glitter suggestion (even if I would prefer another name like phosphorized ^^) and have a question: Do you mean just a visual effect, so everyone knows where to put his aoe on or is the stealthed enemy actually targetable? That’s a huge difference if it comes to team play, there are many skills out there which require a target and a revealed enemy lets you use this kind of skills, if a glittered/phosphorized enemy isn’t targetable it would just help aoe heavy professions in a team fight.

Kodama.6453:

Got interested in the glitter suggestion (even if I would prefer another name like phosphorized ^^) and have a question: Do you mean just a visual effect, so everyone knows where to put his aoe on or is the stealthed enemy actually targetable? That’s a huge difference if it comes to team play, there are many skills out there which require a target and a revealed enemy lets you use this kind of skills, if a glittered/phosphorized enemy isn’t targetable it would just help aoe heavy professions in a team fight.

The way how I thought about the “glitter effect”, is something similar to when in wvw if you party up with enemy thief, he stealths up, you see him and can target him but he get all benefits from stealth. So yeah, targetable.

The glitter, I don’t really care about the name and how the animation would look.

Kury.8210:

@Jana: Guess I’ll give another go at explaining the glitter idea.

-First off, this glitter effect would be replacing the engineer’s ability to put stealthers it hits in revealed status. The glitter is a new effect.

-Second, all glitter would do it create a visual effect where the stealthed thief is. The thief is still stealthed and gains all traited benefits from being stealthed. It’s just the glitter is telling everyone where he is.

If you still think the idea is bonkers and makes no sense, that’s fine. I’ll just follow your lead and we can agree to disagree.

You don’t get my point of view and I don’t know how to explain it (other than I already did)
You just see it from the perspective of the engineer, what about the thief? The thief doesn’t like glitter, so has he got the ability to still stealth?
If you start to get that question you might understand where I’m coming from.

This trait will hurt me like hell, but tbh I’m kinda happy. Outside of duels against very skilled players, stealth is just too easy. Even if engis (good ones ofc) will hardcounter me now, I think it’s fair considering how easy it’s to reset against nearly every other class.

Warkind.6745:

Our new elite specialization. “Guardian Hunter”. Gahaha. I’m going to cry now.

Dont you mean Dragonhunter Hunter? :p

Terkov.4138:

This trait will hurt me like hell, but tbh I’m kinda happy. Outside of duels against very skilled players, stealth is just too easy. Even if engis (good ones ofc) will hardcounter me now, I think it’s fair considering how easy it’s to reset against nearly every other class.

I don’t think it’s fair in this way, because I think it’s going too far. It’s far too easy for engineer to blanket an area with a multitude of attacks, and it renders Shadow Refuge even more of a danger to use anywhere remotely near an engineer. Bad enough the server randomly reveals you sometimes even when you don’t actually walk out of it…

Ranger and Engineer already had a way to put Revealed on you, preventing you from stealthing again immediately, and now Engineer has another on a 20s cooldown and supposedly 6s reveal length too, that will trigger when the Engi ‘strikes’ in stealth. That means with the utility and trait up to 12s of reveal just from an engineer. And may one of the six save you if you encounter 2 engis running the trait. Oh and large group fights, those will be fun too to be randomly revealed in, it’s soo much fun to stand outside of it and watch. I can foresee going into a group fight, cloaking on someone and immediately being revealed because of random aoe damage, and therefore no backstab. Yes I do this because it’s fun. Already very high risk, because could easily be downed from the aoe damage, and now there is the added reward of possibly not being able to even backstab and having 6s of reveal forced on me, negating my whole reason for going in.

choovanski.5462:

tbh, as an engineer I wouldn’t take it. it’s a good trait sure, but you really don’t need it. you can just spam AOE at your feet and most thieves will try and tank it. the rest of them switch to shortbow so i can nail them with hipshot.p

most thieves I encounter in pvp play like they have been recently lobotomised and think eating 1k+ bomb autos plus condis twice a second is a great idea. most of them are so eager they teleport into the AOE.

Of course in WvW as it won’t apply in PvP once match starts: If I’m on Engineer and know there is say a d/p thief near, I’ll quickly turn on the trait if I’m already in that line, won’t be difficult at all. Could even do it if fighting the thief and they reset for a few. And since so many people won’t, or apparently can’t, learn how to counter stealth already, they will take the trait. Especially for at least the next few weeks.

So a single class makes another single class less capable of camping in stealth …

But a single class having dominated the zerker meta versus all other classes was okay? :-p

It isn’t even a 50% up-time on the trait. Revealed for 8s by a class that is easily outrun by most Thieves … then 12s of it being on ICD.

I don’t think this is going to be as bad as many people are making it out to be. It seems more like when the Warrior community was complaining about losing adrenaline out of combat … blown out of proportion … similar to when utilities were added to the game that applied “Reveal” … tons of people were talking about how it was the end for Thieves … that didn’t happen.

… how about we playtest this for some time and then come back with some actual experience with it.

As it is … Thief has another class slower than it that can remove stealth … so avoid them like we do Medi Guards.

It’s much easier being countered by the Tortoise (non-Thief) than it is being countered by the Hare (Thief).

I just wish they deleted the stealth from the game. I say that and I main mesmer. I with mesmer did jack kitten damage in other gear than zerker so I wouldn’t have to run multiple stealths. No matter if I’m the class stealthing or the class that is fighting stealth, those fights are not fun at all. I have never played a MMO with more overpowered and kittened stealth. Heck, at release there was a thief build that just stayed permanently stealthed with cloak and dagger. How is the other person supposed to dodge roll or otherwise counter an invisible opponent that also instantly gap closes? To make it all worse, even if you somehow block or dodge an opening strike like backstab, it doesn’t reveal thief at all, he can just keep trying until it does hit.

Thieves really need to start playing other classes just to see how insanely lame this mechanic is. Even when I win vs a thief, it’s not fun. Please someone put a stop to this disgusting mechanic. And now PU gives a 100% stealth duration boost. Prepare for chickenkitten mesmer vs thief stealth wars. I can already taste the lameness.

Lunacy Solacio.6514:

Ranger and Engineer already had a way to put Revealed on you, preventing you from stealthing again immediately, and now Engineer has another on a 20s cooldown and supposedly 6s reveal length too, that will trigger when the Engi ‘strikes’ in stealth. That means with the utility and trait up to 12s of reveal just from an engineer.

Stop pretending like any engy runs goggles. What a strawman. Engies have 2 kits and one utility that’s gonna be a stunbreak or condi removal of some kind. It sure as hell isn’t gonna be goggles. It’s 6 sec reveal from that trait, that’s it. Nobody is gonna run googles and then kinetic to double down on analyze when they could drop double elite toolbelt (medpacks or cannon).

ManCaptain.3154:

To make it all worse, even if you somehow block or dodge an opening strike like backstab, it doesn’t reveal thief at all, he can just keep trying until it does hit.

And what happens when you miss when on your stealthed mesmer?

ManCaptain.3154:

Thieves really need to start playing other classes just to see how insanely lame this mechanic is.

Ranger, Engi, Guard, Thief, Mesmer, Warrior, Thief, Necro, Thief, Ele (in order of their creation). All level 80, all have been in wvw – I’m worst at guard.

ManCaptain.3154:

Even when I win vs a thief, it’s not fun. Please someone put a stop to this disgusting mechanic. And now PU gives a 100% stealth duration boost. Prepare for chickenkitten mesmer vs thief stealth wars. I can already taste the lameness.

That’s your personal opinion, most people I know don’t think like that. Thief vs thief might be the most common duel – because we love the class and also stealth – mindgames, just like mesmer clones.

ManCaptain.3154:

Lunacy Solacio.6514:

Ranger and Engineer already had a way to put Revealed on you, preventing you from stealthing again immediately, and now Engineer has another on a 20s cooldown and supposedly 6s reveal length too, that will trigger when the Engi ‘strikes’ in stealth. That means with the utility and trait up to 12s of reveal just from an engineer.

Stop pretending like any engy runs goggles. What a strawman. Engies have 2 kits and one utility that’s gonna be a stunbreak or condi removal of some kind. It sure as hell isn’t gonna be goggles. It’s 6 sec reveal from that trait, that’s it. Nobody is gonna run googles and then kinetic to double down on analyze when they could drop double elite toolbelt (medpacks or cannon).

lol. I love that ‘strawman’ accusation all the time. It’s a lot like calling everyone entitled, greedy, etc. What’s next, some other derogatory remark for anyone that disagrees?

They could run it, and some will. You cannot possibly deny that. Many will run the trait or switch to it when they see a thief, at least if they are already in that line because it will be easy. I think those are relevant to this thread, yes? And the goggles are a potential. You know, just like Rangers run Sic ‘em. Neither are intended to distract from the discussion here, which is fully relevant to the fact an engineer alone has the potential to keep a player revealed for nearly 12s, and within 8s after reveal out of stealth again if you somehow managed to live and stick around them. With the trait alone yes it’s ‘just’ 6s and they can take other utilities which of course are far more useful. But rangers could take something besides Sic ‘em and yet quite a few run it (of course for ranger there aren’t a lot of other choices, but there are a few).

You said elsewhere to play other classes. Well I have at least 1 of everything. I’ve played other classes, and I will fight a thief in stealth on each of them. Just today I ran right into a thief’s SR and cloaked on them, backstabbed, and downed them, all without seeing them, because I knew where they would be standing. Do it a lot actually. Probably get accused of cheating, I’ve been waiting for the whispers. It’s simply because I know where they will be.

Of course if you are glass on another class, you should expect to be focused by a thief. And as said, If thief gets revealed because they miss on an attack, then every class should be revealed if they so much as miss, including mesmer and phantasms. I don’t want that either at all, but it would only be fair, right? Or is that too much straw even though it’s a direct response to a post prior that I didn’t bother to quote?

lockon? Challange accepted. xD

Lunacy Solacio.6514:

ManCaptain.3154:

Lunacy Solacio.6514:

Ranger and Engineer already had a way to put Revealed on you, preventing you from stealthing again immediately, and now Engineer has another on a 20s cooldown and supposedly 6s reveal length too, that will trigger when the Engi ‘strikes’ in stealth. That means with the utility and trait up to 12s of reveal just from an engineer.

Stop pretending like any engy runs goggles. What a strawman. Engies have 2 kits and one utility that’s gonna be a stunbreak or condi removal of some kind. It sure as hell isn’t gonna be goggles. It’s 6 sec reveal from that trait, that’s it. Nobody is gonna run googles and then kinetic to double down on analyze when they could drop double elite toolbelt (medpacks or cannon).

lol. I love that ‘strawman’ accusation all the time. It’s a lot like calling everyone entitled, greedy, etc. What’s next, some other derogatory remark for anyone that disagrees?

They could run it, and some will. You cannot possibly deny that. Many will run the trait or switch to it when they see a thief, at least if they are already in that line because it will be easy. I think those are relevant to this thread, yes? And the goggles are a potential. You know, just like Rangers run Sic ‘em. Neither are intended to distract from the discussion here, which is fully relevant to the fact an engineer alone has the potential to keep a player revealed for nearly 12s, and within 8s after reveal out of stealth again if you somehow managed to live and stick around them. With the trait alone yes it’s ‘just’ 6s and they can take other utilities which of course are far more useful. But rangers could take something besides Sic ‘em and yet quite a few run it (of course for ranger there aren’t a lot of other choices, but there are a few).

You said elsewhere to play other classes. Well I have at least 1 of everything. I’ve played other classes, and I will fight a thief in stealth on each of them. Just today I ran right into a thief’s SR and cloaked on them, backstabbed, and downed them, all without seeing them, because I knew where they would be standing. Do it a lot actually. Probably get accused of cheating, I’ve been waiting for the whispers. It’s simply because I know where they will be.

Of course if you are glass on another class, you should expect to be focused by a thief. And as said, If thief gets revealed because they miss on an attack, then every class should be revealed if they so much as miss, including mesmer and phantasms. I don’t want that either at all, but it would only be fair, right? Or is that too much straw even though it’s a direct response to a post prior that I didn’t bother to quote?

If you’re getting strawman accusation all the time, it’s probably because you deserve it.

Dude nobody runs goggles and nobody is gonna run goggles. It’s bad enough that engineer has to give up 1 utility slot to a kit just to be like other classes (i.e. having 2 weapons), nobody is gonna sacrifise utility slots on engineer for those kittenty goggles.

@ManCaptain: Just checking. How much experience do you have playing thief? My first character was a mesmer. Second was my thief. Admittedly, thief can get a lot more out of stealth than mesmer can, but it is way easier to use on mesmer. Majority of mesmer stealths have nothing giving away that you’re going to stealth (BP+HS combo/C&D+steal melee animation) or blatantly pointing out your general location. The biggest problem to thieves is if you know the class you can take pretty good guesses at where they are. Not the case with mesmer builds that rely on stealth.

Just in case this is misunderstood, I’m not saying mesmers are more op stealth wise. Not at all. The two classes simply have different forms of stealth. If you haven’t already, try thief and see if the class is just no brain button mashing. I’m an altoholic and I try to get a feel for how to play all classes in any game. Helps a lot when facing those more confusing classes.

ManCaptain.3154:

Lunacy Solacio.6514:

ManCaptain.3154:

Lunacy Solacio.6514:

Ranger and Engineer already had a way to put Revealed on you, preventing you from stealthing again immediately, and now Engineer has another on a 20s cooldown and supposedly 6s reveal length too, that will trigger when the Engi ‘strikes’ in stealth. That means with the utility and trait up to 12s of reveal just from an engineer.

Stop pretending like any engy runs goggles. What a strawman. Engies have 2 kits and one utility that’s gonna be a stunbreak or condi removal of some kind. It sure as hell isn’t gonna be goggles. It’s 6 sec reveal from that trait, that’s it. Nobody is gonna run googles and then kinetic to double down on analyze when they could drop double elite toolbelt (medpacks or cannon).

lol. I love that ‘strawman’ accusation all the time. It’s a lot like calling everyone entitled, greedy, etc. What’s next, some other derogatory remark for anyone that disagrees?

They could run it, and some will. You cannot possibly deny that. Many will run the trait or switch to it when they see a thief, at least if they are already in that line because it will be easy. I think those are relevant to this thread, yes? And the goggles are a potential. You know, just like Rangers run Sic ‘em. Neither are intended to distract from the discussion here, which is fully relevant to the fact an engineer alone has the potential to keep a player revealed for nearly 12s, and within 8s after reveal out of stealth again if you somehow managed to live and stick around them. With the trait alone yes it’s ‘just’ 6s and they can take other utilities which of course are far more useful. But rangers could take something besides Sic ‘em and yet quite a few run it (of course for ranger there aren’t a lot of other choices, but there are a few).

You said elsewhere to play other classes. Well I have at least 1 of everything. I’ve played other classes, and I will fight a thief in stealth on each of them. Just today I ran right into a thief’s SR and cloaked on them, backstabbed, and downed them, all without seeing them, because I knew where they would be standing. Do it a lot actually. Probably get accused of cheating, I’ve been waiting for the whispers. It’s simply because I know where they will be.

Of course if you are glass on another class, you should expect to be focused by a thief. And as said, If thief gets revealed because they miss on an attack, then every class should be revealed if they so much as miss, including mesmer and phantasms. I don’t want that either at all, but it would only be fair, right? Or is that too much straw even though it’s a direct response to a post prior that I didn’t bother to quote?

If you’re getting strawman accusation all the time, it’s probably because you deserve it.

Dude nobody runs goggles and nobody is gonna run goggles. It’s bad enough that engineer has to give up 1 utility slot to a kit just to be like other classes (i.e. having 2 weapons), nobody is gonna sacrifise utility slots on engineer for those kittenty goggles.

only SD builds run goggles and those are zerker.. if you cant beat zerker sd engi on a thief wow. idk what to say to you. it has no spamable AOE so it can’t deter backstabs, so there should be little issue taking it out considering how squishy it is if the run goggles as the stunbreak.

ManCaptain.3154:

If you’re getting strawman accusation all the time, it’s probably because you deserve it.

Dude nobody runs goggles and nobody is gonna run goggles. It’s bad enough that engineer has to give up 1 utility slot to a kit just to be like other classes (i.e. having 2 weapons), nobody is gonna sacrifise utility slots on engineer for those kittenty goggles.

If anyone is pulling a strawman argument here, it’s you. Using that one thing to negate everything else said. It’s a possibility though, and SD does use it, but they are glassy so meh. Last time I died to a static discharge engi, it was because skills didn’t activate and I hit a wrong key so >.> oops. lol.

Whatever, though, read what was said, because I never said I was getting accusations of always making strawman arguments. But hey, I don’t think a conversation here with you on this trait at all is relevant or matters, but you can keep on with your argument if you desire. atm I’m far more interested in why a dagger thief gets revealed from stealth on #1 when it doesn’t hit (even if you don’t have a target standing in town) whereas no one else seems to. But that too is fair eh?