Guild Wars 2

Wait, and if this build will bring nerfs to us… what are we supposed to do? I don’t think our attitude will change anything.

Some guys are making threads talking about the best ways to counter this build. And I think Stunbreakers are the least effective way. Example: I play engi. I think the best tool against warriors is Protection Injection, not a stunbreaker: each time I get stunned, damage is reduced by 33%. This is enough to make sure a single warrior can’t kill me, even in an hour.

Stunbreakers are more like a last resort, IMHO. There are better tools (pets who can disable enemies, teleports and so on).

Turamarth.3248:

TheGuy.3568:

redslion.9675:

That if the problem about Mace/shield + GS build is being unreadable because of mace, that is also my problem.

You can get the same CC out of hammer the issue is hammer animation are slow and punish those not paying attention. This makes sense. The problem is mace shield has quick animations and some of the hardest to spot in the game. What compounds this issue is recent healing changes the capability to block something hammer inherently does not have. So countering hammer while simple can still challenging. Ranged DPS is a flat out counter so are blinds and evade. If you get caught it is your fault and its all over. Mace shield on the other hand is defensive enough to mitigate much of the damage in pursuit of the target and still pack out CC quicker on a single target. There is very little counter play because the animations are so fast.

There is more to this but I outlined it yesterday and before that and have no need to again. Factually in terms of access to blocks CC mobility and the traits being too good for adept the build is factually OP.

I believe you misunderstood him. He uses M/S + H.
M/S for the stun and the hammer for dps.
With this he has the ranged block, the quick animations and apparently the same dps as with the GS build.

Hammer has lower DPS, but this is balanced out by the ability to CC the enemy. The enemy will be stunned 7 seconds (Skull Crack + Heartshaker, which will land because the enemy is stunned) instead of 4, taking the damage I’d deal with a GS in 4 seconds. I do the same damage, just in a bit longer time.

And on another note, I think this build is not a cookie cutter. At least, I use my own version in spvp, with Berserker’s Amulet and other ways of gaining armor.

HatSimulator.9362:

…when every single class has to change traits and runes just to counter one class…

You talking about necromancers, yes? Because I had to redo my warrior because of necros.

redslion.9675:

Some guys are making threads talking about the best ways to counter this build. And I think Stunbreakers are the least effective way. Example: I play engi. I think the best tool against warriors is Protection Injection, not a stunbreaker: each time I get stunned, damage is reduced by 33%.

Some engi actually used it against me..easy to counter. Pommel bash to trigger protection, wait it out or if u are less skilled use skull when its will be close to wear off. Tada protection is bypassed. In that trait we got 2sec hole to stun them again, its all down to timing. Howered Stabilized armor..

In general engi is a pretty strong class, probably even a lil op in right hands

Scoobaniec.9561:

redslion.9675:

Some guys are making threads talking about the best ways to counter this build. And I think Stunbreakers are the least effective way. Example: I play engi. I think the best tool against warriors is Protection Injection, not a stunbreaker: each time I get stunned, damage is reduced by 33%.

Some engi actually used it against me..easy to counter. Pommel bash to trigger protection, wait it out or if u are less skilled use skull when its will be close to wear off. Tada protection is bypassed. In that trait we got 2sec hole to stun them again, its all down to timing. Howered Stabilized armor..

In general engi is a pretty strong class, probably even a lil op in right hands

That made you lose some time. The engi then has static shot, Static shield, or bombs. Or he just dodges out of melee (this might be one of those times when you don’t dodge to react to something). That effectively reduced pressure. It’s something. Many times I have to pull a combo when I can, because probably I won’t be able to use it 2 secs later.

How about they remove stun breakers from the game since no one seems to use them anyway?

GSSBlunaspike.4153:

Believe it or not that’s what some of us want to avoid. The way to do that is by suggesting changes that can be made without a direct nerf. Changes to traits by moving them up or down a tree for example. Say they made the stun on skull crack only 2.5 seconds. Now further imagine that they made a gm trait that said “chance to crit against stunned opponents is increased by 50%, stun duration is increased by 50%”. There now you have what is available right now, but it requires more specialization in order to achieve. So that the player has to choose to really go into a tree in order to get those results. Btw I’m not saying that’s a perfect fix, I’m just throwing it out there as an idea of what I think most reasonable people are talking about. I hope no one is just asking for a flat nerf, because not only is that not needed it also makes no sense.

My problem with discussion options for changing things around right now is that I still don’t feel anyone has done even close to a good job at explaining why this needs to be shifted around at all. Some people die to it, then rush to the forums and complain? Some of those people are proven to know very little about the game and don’t even try?

These are the people I’m making this change for? I’m going to try to re-work Warrior traits for people who can’t be bothered to put some effort in themselves to beat this build?

Show me that the counters in place already do not appropriately work against a Warrior, and we can have that discussion. Show me intelligent stun breaker usage isn’t enough. Show me that using food to reduce the stun potential by 40% won’t cripple it. Show me that it’s difficult to anticipate.

I’m not going to talk “fixes” before anyone who thinks it should be “fixed” even addresses the available counters.

HatSimulator.9362:

Now that (almost) every warrior is using this build, and the fact that warriors are the most played class, I and many other people on the forums in different professions have had to make builds just to find how to counter all these stuns.
I’m not saying stunlock, unlimited healing warriors are OP but when every single class has to change traits and runes just to counter one class, it becomes OP.
(not replying to anything replying to this post, warriors are impossible to argue with)

Thank you so much for realizing that Necromancers are OP!

Everyone has to run conditions removal because of Necromancers, so by your logic Necromancers are OP.

In fact, on my Warrior I run Sig of Stamina, Berserker Stance, Cleansing Ire, and Melandru runes (-condition food in WvW too)…..all just to try to counter Necromancer conditions.

Velron.3729:

HatSimulator.9362:

Now that (almost) every warrior is using this build, and the fact that warriors are the most played class, I and many other people on the forums in different professions have had to make builds just to find how to counter all these stuns.
I’m not saying stunlock, unlimited healing warriors are OP but when every single class has to change traits and runes just to counter one class, it becomes OP.
(not replying to anything replying to this post, warriors are impossible to argue with)

Thank you so much for realizing that Necromancers are OP!

Everyone has to run conditions removal because of Necromancers, so by your logic Necromancers are OP.

In fact, on my Warrior I run Sig of Stamina, Berserker Stance, Cleansing Ire, and Melandru runes…..all just to try to counter Necromancer conditions.

Funny how just as I’m reading this, I’m matched up against 4 necros and a guardian. How fun.

So…I have read 7 pages…of people complaining about being stunned..and I cant help but wonder….

Does dodge not work?
Does healing not work?
Did stability get nerfed?
Are stun breakers non existent?

Out of every one of my characters, I have only had problems with my necro and engi….

Also…
If this is a problem in Spvp and WvW….why is this thread not in those subforum’s?

Blind.

Kukchi.6173:

HatSimulator.9362:

Now that (almost) every warrior is using this build, and the fact that warriors are the most played class, I and many other people on the forums in different professions have had to make builds just to find how to counter all these stuns.
I’m not saying stunlock, unlimited healing warriors are OP but when every single class has to change traits and runes just to counter one class, it becomes OP.
(not replying to anything replying to this post, warriors are impossible to argue with)

im pretty sure there are more thieves and mesmers than warriors. How do u think us warriors feel dealing with conditions? Especially from necros….. stop whinning and learn to change your utilities….

Actually it shows that there are more guardians playing currently then warriors, and the only reason its the only played build is because skull crack is all we have.

If we had sustain, more weapon choices and our other weapons mattered then we wouldn’t be playing the same build.

The funniest part of that thread is that it’s really 100b that’s causing the issue. Long stuns mean nothing unless you have high crazy burst like 100b.

I seem to recall in the past, there were multiple warriors agreeing 100b is OP but immobile, and asking for a more mobile lower DPS alternative. Largely because of it’s underperformance in PvP/WvW and overperformance in PvE.

The general response to this was “It’s fine L2P.”

Time really does make fools of you all doesn’t it?

lol @ mace shield 100B builds

Do Longbow Hammer zerker 30 defense 30 discipline, 10 arms. You will never run Mace Shield GS ever again

Personally what puts this build over the top is the lemongrass. in WvW it is insane, in PVP, not so much. If the build was as over the top as many of you would have us believe it to be, don’t you think you would be seeing an inflow of warriors in the top tier of tPVP?

Dand.8231:

The funniest part of that thread is that it’s really 100b that’s causing the issue. Long stuns mean nothing unless you have high crazy burst like 100b.

I seem to recall in the past, there were multiple warriors agreeing 100b is OP but immobile, and asking for a more mobile lower DPS alternative. Largely because of it’s underperformance in PvP/WvW and overperformance in PvE.

The general response to this was “It’s fine L2P.”

Time really does make fools of you all doesn’t it?

I actually think that gs should be reworked..and maintly its 100b. I know they olny ppl that want to leave it as it is is the ones that run ,ace/shield+gs but lets face it – its a gimmick build and mace job is all about babysit gs to land one single ability.. Its just wrong

If i were able i would remove 100b completely from this game as i dont see how they can rework it to be decent in both pvp and pve.. Immo making it flurry v2? Its wont work. Stun? Nope

The olny reason i see to actually pick up gs is to #3 or to gimmick mace/shield build, but probably axe chain can fit that role of 100b, trained for extra adrenaline on crits just skullcrack>axe chain>shield bash>evi.

In current state of gs this weapon need a babysit set/utility to make a single ability work where all dmg of weapon is paced in. Even traits are weird: 20 str for increased dmg, 20 into arms for might on crits and reduced cd’s. Thats 40 points just to improve a single weapon. Combining that traits and place them into 30 arms would actually give us a reason to max that line.

Mace on its own needs to be improved as well – block to actually work the same way as riposte does, faster chain and a bit of mobility (maybe pulverize change to make it a 3/4 casttime evade move with 300 gap closer? After all mace is a defensive weapon)

Solori.6025:

So…I have read 7 pages…of people complaining about being stunned..and I cant help but wonder….

Does dodge not work?
Does healing not work?
Did stability get nerfed?
Are stun breakers non existent?

Out of every one of my characters, I have only had problems with my necro and engi….

Also…
If this is a problem in Spvp and WvW….why is this thread not in those subforum’s?

My response to this, not directly at you, but in general to the entire community is, is this a bad thing? Finally something to combat the meta condition burst classes in HGH engi and Terrormancers. Finally something that teams can look at and go, your responsible for locking these people down and taking them out of the fight.

People should be punished for not carrying a stun breaker. People have gotten to comfortable with playing this game without any punishment for not carrying a stun breaker, and playing glass cannons expecting sustain. On my Engi bunker I never carried one until recently, there simply wasn’t a point. I never ran into anything that could stun me and burst me down, until now, so I adjusted my build to compensate for this, and now I run a stun breaker to allow me to combat the abilities of the Warrior. It’s a game of adaptability, l2p, adjust your builds, or continue to die.

I will come in now and say that the build is definitely not OP. I play a non-Dhuumfire Condition necro as my primary build. When I run into a M/S-GS Warrior in WvW, I know I am in for a tough fight, but not a totally unwinnable one. I (and every other necro) rely almost entirely on conditions to kite, and the popular build reduces snare duration by 98%. I have a very, very difficult time kiting these Warriors (Signet of the Locust is the only reason I can). My build only has room for one stunbreak and even that usually gets dropped for zerg battles. I have no stability whatsoever (Flesh Golem for elite)

But I can still manage to beat this build, even with Lemongrass Soup + Dogged March + Melandru runes. It is as close as you can get to a flat out hard-counter to my build, but it is still possible for me to win if I outplay the Warrior. Very difficult, yes, but possible. If I lose (which happens a lot), I don’t think “He’s using such an OP build”, I think “Well, he sure exploited my weaknesses. How did I last as long as I did?”

Thieves should have no issue with it at all with the ease they have disengaging, dodging, and kiting.

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

I will come in now and say that the build is definitely not OP. I play a non-Dhuumfire Condition necro as my primary build. When I run into a M/S-GS Warrior in WvW, I know I am in for a tough fight, but not a totally unwinnable one. I (and every other necro) rely almost entirely on conditions to kite, and the popular build reduces snare duration by 98%. I have a very, very difficult time kiting these Warriors (Signet of the Locust is the only reason I can). My build only has room for one stunbreak and even that usually gets dropped for zerg battles. I have no stability whatsoever (Flesh Golem for elite)

But I can still manage to beat this build, even with Lemongrass Soup + Dogged March + Melandru runes. It is as close as you can get to a flat out hard-counter to my build, but it is still possible for me to win if I outplay the Warrior. Very difficult, yes, but possible. If I lose (which happens a lot), I don’t think “He’s using such an OP build”, I think “Well, he sure exploited my weaknesses. How did I last as long as I did?”

Thieves should have no issue with it at all with the ease they have disengaging, dodging, and kiting.

A good thief has no issues with the build, they perma spam blind on the Warrior, and port in and out of his attacks. The only ones that do are the guys who get so eager to kill the Warrior they grow impatient and get stun locked/100 blades into the ground.

Scoobaniec.9561:

…I actually think that gs should be reworked…Even traits are weird

I sort of feel like we need to do this with Weapon Traits

Two Handed Weapon Mastery: Reduces cooldown on all 2handed melee weapons (greatsword/hammer/uw spear), and provides a bonus unique to each weapon.
-GS/Spear: Might on crit
-Hammer: Bonus damage vs disabled foes

Dual Wield Weapon Mastery
Reduces cooldown on all 1handed and offhanded melee weapons (axe/sword/mace), and provides a bonus unique to each weapon.
-Axe: Bonus damage vs vulnerable foes
-Sword: Chance to inflict burning on crits
-Mace: Bonus damage vs weakened foes

Ranged Weapon Mastery
Reduces cooldown, and provides a bonus unique to each weapon
-Rifle/Harpoon: Shots pierce targets
-Longbow: #1 Causes burning

Offhand Support Mastery
Reduces cooldown on all offhanded support weapons (shield/warhorn) and provides a bonus unique to each weapon.
-Warhorn: converts conditions to boons
-Shield: Reflects projectiles while blocking

galandor.1059:

Solori.6025:

So…I have read 7 pages…of people complaining about being stunned..and I cant help but wonder….

Does dodge not work?
Does healing not work?
Did stability get nerfed?
Are stun breakers non existent?

Out of every one of my characters, I have only had problems with my necro and engi….

Also…
If this is a problem in Spvp and WvW….why is this thread not in those subforum’s?

My response to this, not directly at you, but in general to the entire community is, is this a bad thing? Finally something to combat the meta condition burst classes in HGH engi and Terrormancers. Finally something that teams can look at and go, your responsible for locking these people down and taking them out of the fight.

People should be punished for not carrying a stun breaker. People have gotten to comfortable with playing this game without any punishment for not carrying a stun breaker, and playing glass cannons expecting sustain. On my Engi bunker I never carried one until recently, there simply wasn’t a point. I never ran into anything that could stun me and burst me down, until now, so I adjusted my build to compensate for this, and now I run a stun breaker to allow me to combat the abilities of the Warrior. It’s a game of adaptability, l2p, adjust your builds, or continue to die.

You’re right. The real problem is that bad players refuse to change and get better, so they come and cry that this build is op even though it has multiple counters. For so long warriors were sub optimal in pvp and were easily countered by almost any build. Now that warriors have a good build that can compete in a 1v1, the bads are flipping out over getting put in their place. What’s really sad is that mace hasn’t changed in any way.

VictorTroska.3725:

HatSimulator.9362:

…when every single class has to change traits and runes just to counter one class…

You talking about necromancers, yes? Because I had to redo my warrior because of necros.

welcome to the life of a warrior, having to spec in all defensive utility skills, obtain max condition removal/duration, building toughness and still expected to do damage.

They will have to change the stun back to 2s, tone down healing sig or tone down unsuspecting foe, preferably changing that into a master tier.

4s stun on 7.6 sec cooldown is imba no matter how you look at it. The move has very little telegraphic effects, which means u barely see it coming even on a non asura. If your opponent is an asura, forget about trying to see and dodge out.

400 hps from a single skill is bullkitten, on a class with 19k HP baseline and hard damage mitigation skills. When healing signet is combined with adrenal health its even more ridiculous. U have a class with 500+ hps BASELINE which can be stacked on top of the regeneration buff. If you don’t think its OP< you are delusional.

Unsuspecting foe…. 50% crit chance on a stunned target…really. Basically warrior can stack chevalier accessories and still kitten you during a stunlock while having 3200 armor. Heh, balanced

Not gonna get into the complete CC and condition immunity cuz at least now you are acknowledging that this is OP.

This build is gonna get nerfed no matter how much you fellas complain and moan against it because no one should have the highest mitigation, sustain AND burst in the game. Top that to highest mobility and highest baseline health

Hunter.4783:

They will have to change the stun back to 2s, tone down healing sig or tone down unsuspecting foe, preferably changing that into a master tier.

4s stun on 7.6 sec cooldown is imba no matter how you look at it. The move has very little telegraphic effects, which means u barely see it coming even on a non asura. If your opponent is an asura, forget about trying to see and dodge out.

400 hps from a single skill is bullkitten, on a class with 19k HP baseline and hard damage mitigation skills. When healing signet is combined with adrenal health its even more ridiculous. U have a class with 500+ hps BASELINE which can be stacked on top of the regeneration buff. If you don’t think its OP< you are delusional.

Unsuspecting foe…. 50% crit chance on a stunned target…really. Basically warrior can stack chevalier accessories and still kitten you during a stunlock while having 3200 armor. Heh, balanced

Not gonna get into the complete CC and condition immunity cuz at least now you are acknowledging that this is OP.

This build is gonna get nerfed no matter how much you fellas complain and moan against it because no one should have the highest mitigation, sustain AND burst in the game. Top that to highest mobility and highest baseline health

You know in a state of the game talk unsuspecting foe was actually in the list of ’’possibly’’ to be buffed, since it working only on stuns made it too weak.

Lalala.
If you nerf the mace stun you need to give it a buff in another way, since then it will be a suckier version of hammer which has a same length aoe stun

And the complaining and moaning is done here by you. : p
I am alright with them nerfing healing sig though ^^

Hunter.4783:

They will have to change the stun back to 2s, tone down healing sig or tone down unsuspecting foe, preferably changing that into a master tier.

4s stun on 7.6 sec cooldown is imba no matter how you look at it. The move has very little telegraphic effects, which means u barely see it coming even on a non asura. If your opponent is an asura, forget about trying to see and dodge out.

400 hps from a single skill is bullkitten, on a class with 19k HP baseline and hard damage mitigation skills. When healing signet is combined with adrenal health its even more ridiculous. U have a class with 500+ hps BASELINE which can be stacked on top of the regeneration buff. If you don’t think its OP< you are delusional.

Unsuspecting foe…. 50% crit chance on a stunned target…really. Basically warrior can stack chevalier accessories and still kitten you during a stunlock while having 3200 armor. Heh, balanced

Not gonna get into the complete CC and condition immunity cuz at least now you are acknowledging that this is OP.

This build is gonna get nerfed no matter how much you fellas complain and moan against it because no one should have the highest mitigation, sustain AND burst in the game. Top that to highest mobility and highest baseline health

Of course it will. When bad players complain because they lack the skill necessary to beat gimmick builds, aNet caters to them bringing the nerf hammer of doom.

And yes, I am talking about you.

I think we should all theory craft spirit weapon guardian builds, find one that totally decimates people, everyone start playing them like crazy, get an inflow of QQ’s, and then as a result, have aNet begin the nerf hammer of doom on the Guardian class nerfing abilities that indirectly will crush the classes other builds into oblivion.

Excalibur.9748:

If you know what build I’m gonna run, then you can just run a build specifically tailored to beat this one. How is that even fair?

So you complain about a build being “OP” then you post the above.

You made me laugh so very hard.

Hunter.4783:

adrenal health

U have a class with 500+ hps BASELINE which can be stacked on top of the regeneration buff. If you don’t think its OP< you are delusional.

Adrenal health is a Trait, which means that it’s not baseline. It’s specced.

And regen is only accessible through 30 points in Tactics AND then running banners, which means we’re a pure bunker build.

Yeah, you DO realize most other facetanking classes can get an effective 500 HP/s without much difficulty, right? Such as Guardian, Ele, Engi? Have you ever seen a spirit range take hits, their staying power is crazy! And while mes and thief dont “take” hits, they do evade them which is still a form of sustain even if it’s not direct healing. I think necro has some sustain issues though but im hardly an expert.

In addition to #6 and Resolve, Guards can go for AH, or healing symbols, have easy access to regen and protection, can get teeny heals on GS swings. Cmon man, dont make me name everything everyone can do to heal/sustain here. The only difference with Warrior is that the heal comes from a single source, signet, instead of being spread around to several smaller sources

Dont believe that? Tough man, the proof is in the pudding.
If Warrior healing and sustain is so OP now, where are the bunker warriors stepping up to replace Guardians in tPvP?

Dand.8231:

Hunter.4783:

adrenal health

U have a class with 500+ hps BASELINE which can be stacked on top of the regeneration buff. If you don’t think its OP< you are delusional.

Adrenal health is a Trait, which means that it’s not baseline. It’s specced.

And regen is only accessible through 30 points in Tactics AND then running banners, which means we’re a pure bunker build.

Yeah, you DO realize most other facetanking classes can get an effective 500 HP/s without much difficulty, right? Such as Guardian, Ele, Engi? Have you ever seen a spirit range take hits, their staying power is crazy! And while mes and thief dont “take” hits, they do evade them which is still a form of sustain even if it’s not direct healing. I think necro has some sustain issues though but im hardly an expert.

In addition to #6 and Resolve, Guards can go for AH, or healing symbols, have easy access to regen and protection, can get teeny heals on GS swings. Cmon man, dont make me name everything everyone can do to heal/sustain here. The only difference with Warrior is that the heal comes from a single source, signet, instead of being spread around to several smaller sources

Dont believe that? Tough man, the proof is in the pudding.
If Warrior healing and sustain is so OP now, where are the bunker warriors stepping up to replace Guardians in tPvP?

Did you just say a Spirit Ranger has staying power?

You realize it doesn’t have Health Regen right?? Spirits take up the slot of Signet of the Wild, and None of them go Natural Healing (30 BM)

That basically leaves the Regen Buff, Which Healing Signet and Adrenal Health will easily outdo alone.

Oh wait, I forgot Spirit Rangers have that awesome Elite ability that you can kill, Its got a nice fat 240 second cooldown though..

Xsorus.2507:

Dand.8231:

Hunter.4783:

adrenal health

U have a class with 500+ hps BASELINE which can be stacked on top of the regeneration buff. If you don’t think its OP< you are delusional.

Adrenal health is a Trait, which means that it’s not baseline. It’s specced.

And regen is only accessible through 30 points in Tactics AND then running banners, which means we’re a pure bunker build.

Yeah, you DO realize most other facetanking classes can get an effective 500 HP/s without much difficulty, right? Such as Guardian, Ele, Engi? Have you ever seen a spirit range take hits, their staying power is crazy! And while mes and thief dont “take” hits, they do evade them which is still a form of sustain even if it’s not direct healing. I think necro has some sustain issues though but im hardly an expert.

In addition to #6 and Resolve, Guards can go for AH, or healing symbols, have easy access to regen and protection, can get teeny heals on GS swings. Cmon man, dont make me name everything everyone can do to heal/sustain here. The only difference with Warrior is that the heal comes from a single source, signet, instead of being spread around to several smaller sources

Dont believe that? Tough man, the proof is in the pudding.
If Warrior healing and sustain is so OP now, where are the bunker warriors stepping up to replace Guardians in tPvP?

Did you just say a Spirit Ranger has staying power?

You realize it doesn’t have Health Regen right?? Spirits take up the slot of Signet of the Wild, and None of them go Natural Healing (30 BM)

That basically leaves the Regen Buff, Which Healing Signet and Adrenal Health will easily outdo alone.

Oh wait, I forgot Spirit Rangers have that awesome Elite ability that you can kill, Its got a nice fat 240 second cooldown though..

It doesn’t really matter whether he was right or wrong about healing on a spirit ranger. They are part of the meta, where as warriors are not. If a spirit ranger comes in here complaining about this build it is pretty lame. He probably confused spirit ranger with BM regen builds.

No team ran with not even 1 warrior.. LOL…

Hunter making another “listen to me talk” post with absolutely no substance.

Nothing new in this thread, moving right along. I can’t help but feel like this is what happens when parents never say “no” to their children. Too many “chiefs” talking like their opinions are facts and should be treated as such.

Ashanor.5319:

It doesn’t really matter whether he was right or wrong about healing on a spirit ranger. They are part of the meta, where as warriors are not. If a spirit ranger comes in here complaining about this build it is pretty lame. He probably confused spirit ranger with BM regen builds.

Yeah, sorry. Spirit rangers make excellent mobile homepoints as part of the current meta, and BM regen builds can easily top 500 HP/s, as can many other builds and classes.

Did everyone already forget what Warriors were like before the healing buff?? You could just wear them down in a fight, and they could either stay and die, or turn and flee for their lives.

You COULD move some of the baseline healing into traited stuff, for the same overall result, but then again…. that’d only pidgeonholes warriors into those very traits because they need them to survive. You’ll see MORE gimmicky builds that way, not less.

The reason his healing seems OP is because he’s also controlling you (and you’re letting him) which means you’re not hitting him all the time.

Dand.8231:

Hunter.4783:

adrenal health

U have a class with 500+ hps BASELINE which can be stacked on top of the regeneration buff. If you don’t think its OP< you are delusional.

Adrenal health is a Trait, which means that it’s not baseline. It’s specced.

And regen is only accessible through 30 points in Tactics AND then running banners, which means we’re a pure bunker build.

Yeah, you DO realize most other facetanking classes can get an effective 500 HP/s without much difficulty, right? Such as Guardian, Ele, Engi? Have you ever seen a spirit range take hits, their staying power is crazy! And while mes and thief dont “take” hits, they do evade them which is still a form of sustain even if it’s not direct healing. I think necro has some sustain issues though but im hardly an expert.

In addition to #6 and Resolve, Guards can go for AH, or healing symbols, have easy access to regen and protection, can get teeny heals on GS swings. Cmon man, dont make me name everything everyone can do to heal/sustain here. The only difference with Warrior is that the heal comes from a single source, signet, instead of being spread around to several smaller sources

Dont believe that? Tough man, the proof is in the pudding.
If Warrior healing and sustain is so OP now, where are the bunker warriors stepping up to replace Guardians in tPvP?

The warrior build in question takes 20 points in the defense line, which kinda makes it baseline for the build. It takes effort to read the OP and understand it I know, but you should try it sometimes.

Its true that bunker guards can reach more mitigation than warriors but show me 1 bunker guard who can put 1/10 the dmg which warrior build in question can. Bunker guards are being used over bunker warriors because they simply have higher sustain but they lack in anything else….they just perform well in 1 aspect and 1 aspect only.

Also lol @you for mentioning AH in sPVP. Ways to go, now I know you have no clue what u are talking about

Cogbyrn.7283:

Hunter making another “listen to me talk” post with absolutely no substance.

Nothing new in this thread, moving right along. I can’t help but feel like this is what happens when parents never say “no” to their children. Too many “chiefs” talking like their opinions are facts and should be treated as such.

You have yet to tell me why this spec is currently rocking high sustain, high burst, high mobility, CC immunity, condition immunity, 50% stun uptime on a 7.5 sec cooldown.

Hunter.4783:

Dand.8231:

Hunter.4783:

adrenal health

U have a class with 500+ hps BASELINE which can be stacked on top of the regeneration buff. If you don’t think its OP< you are delusional.

Adrenal health is a Trait, which means that it’s not baseline. It’s specced.

And regen is only accessible through 30 points in Tactics AND then running banners, which means we’re a pure bunker build.

Yeah, you DO realize most other facetanking classes can get an effective 500 HP/s without much difficulty, right? Such as Guardian, Ele, Engi? Have you ever seen a spirit range take hits, their staying power is crazy! And while mes and thief dont “take” hits, they do evade them which is still a form of sustain even if it’s not direct healing. I think necro has some sustain issues though but im hardly an expert.

In addition to #6 and Resolve, Guards can go for AH, or healing symbols, have easy access to regen and protection, can get teeny heals on GS swings. Cmon man, dont make me name everything everyone can do to heal/sustain here. The only difference with Warrior is that the heal comes from a single source, signet, instead of being spread around to several smaller sources

Dont believe that? Tough man, the proof is in the pudding.
If Warrior healing and sustain is so OP now, where are the bunker warriors stepping up to replace Guardians in tPvP?

The warrior build in question takes 20 points in the defense line, which kinda makes it baseline for the build. It takes effort to read the OP and understand it I know, but you should try it sometimes.

Its true that bunker guards can reach more mitigation than warriors but show me 1 bunker guard who can put 1/10 the dmg which warrior build in question can. Bunker guards are being used over bunker warriors because they simply have higher sustain but they lack in anything else….they just perform well in 1 aspect and 1 aspect only.

Also lol @you for mentioning AH in sPVP. Ways to go, now I know you have no clue what u are talking about

Actually Guardians out damage warriors as a bunker, most warriors can only do 400 dps while going full on bunker. That is why they CC instead and let their team do the damage.

Hunter.4783:

Cogbyrn.7283:

Hunter making another “listen to me talk” post with absolutely no substance.

Nothing new in this thread, moving right along. I can’t help but feel like this is what happens when parents never say “no” to their children. Too many “chiefs” talking like their opinions are facts and should be treated as such.

You have yet to tell me why this spec is currently rocking high sustain, high burst, high mobility, CC immunity, condition immunity, 50% stun uptime on a 7.5 sec cooldown.

High sustain? No. High burst? Duh, your a glass cannon. High mobility? Yes, Warriors have always had high mobility, duh. CC immunity? Warriors are CC immune? Since when? I have an ability that gives me CC immunity for 8 seconds, hardly immune for the duration of a fight though. Condition immune? 8 seconds is condition immune? Hardly. 50% uptime on a stun? Yeah, that is what blocks, evades, dazes, blinds, stun breakers, and kiting is for. L2pson.

Hunter.4783:

The warrior build in question takes 20 points in the defense line, which kinda makes it baseline. It takes effort to read the OP and understand it I know, but you should try it sometimes.

Baseline == 0/0/0/0/0
Specced =/= 0/0/0/0/0
See the contradiction?
Way to nail me for a lack of comprehension, while in the same breath, failing to properly use even the simplest terminology. You’re clearly correct here.

Hunter.4783:

Its true that bunker guards can reach more mitigation than warriors but show me 1 bunker guard who can put 1/10 the dmg which warrior build in question can. Bunker guards are being used over bunker warriors because they simply have higher sustain but they lack in anything else….they just perform well in 1 aspect and 1 aspect only.

Did you just compare the Survival of a Bunker War to a Bunker guard, and then the DPS of Bunker Guards to this totally different, NON BUNKER War, Mace GS Build?? What??

Hunter.4783:

Also lol @you for mentioning AH in sPVP. Ways to go, now I know you have no clue what u are talking about

Hey, remember that time I listed everything they could do to boost their healing/sustain, and DIDN’T mention, or limit it only to a single realm of gameplay, such as sPvP, WvW, or PvE?

No?

Probably because..

It takes effort to read the OP and understand it I know, but you should try it sometimes.

#TakingOwnAdviceFail.

100 blades should be a burst skill (and sped up).

Phaeton.9582:

100 blades should be a burst skill (and sped up).

Just to destroy one build?

Phaeton.9582:

100 blades should be a burst skill (and sped up).

It would work but that would make 100 blades quite a bit more difficult to land effectively, imob’s can just be cleared off, thus bringing in the original problem of having 100 blades be rather useless because of it’s lack of mobility.

galandor.1059:

Phaeton.9582:

100 blades should be a burst skill (and sped up).

It would work but that would make 100 blades quite a bit more difficult to land effectively, imob’s can just be cleared off, thus bringing in the original problem of having 100 blades be rather useless because of it’s lack of mobility.

Was about to ask the same..

Just delete hb and replace it with something else

Daecollo.9578:

Hunter.4783:

Dand.8231:

Hunter.4783:

adrenal health

U have a class with 500+ hps BASELINE which can be stacked on top of the regeneration buff. If you don’t think its OP< you are delusional.

Adrenal health is a Trait, which means that it’s not baseline. It’s specced.

And regen is only accessible through 30 points in Tactics AND then running banners, which means we’re a pure bunker build.

Yeah, you DO realize most other facetanking classes can get an effective 500 HP/s without much difficulty, right? Such as Guardian, Ele, Engi? Have you ever seen a spirit range take hits, their staying power is crazy! And while mes and thief dont “take” hits, they do evade them which is still a form of sustain even if it’s not direct healing. I think necro has some sustain issues though but im hardly an expert.

In addition to #6 and Resolve, Guards can go for AH, or healing symbols, have easy access to regen and protection, can get teeny heals on GS swings. Cmon man, dont make me name everything everyone can do to heal/sustain here. The only difference with Warrior is that the heal comes from a single source, signet, instead of being spread around to several smaller sources

Dont believe that? Tough man, the proof is in the pudding.
If Warrior healing and sustain is so OP now, where are the bunker warriors stepping up to replace Guardians in tPvP?

The warrior build in question takes 20 points in the defense line, which kinda makes it baseline for the build. It takes effort to read the OP and understand it I know, but you should try it sometimes.

Its true that bunker guards can reach more mitigation than warriors but show me 1 bunker guard who can put 1/10 the dmg which warrior build in question can. Bunker guards are being used over bunker warriors because they simply have higher sustain but they lack in anything else….they just perform well in 1 aspect and 1 aspect only.

Also lol @you for mentioning AH in sPVP. Ways to go, now I know you have no clue what u are talking about

Actually Guardians out damage warriors as a bunker, most warriors can only do 400 dps while going full on bunker. That is why they CC instead and let their team do the damage.

Are you for real now? I never said this build had a higher sustain and mitigation than a bunker build. I did however say that the sustain and DPS that this build brings, when combined with the warrior inate high health and mobility is off the charts. Don’t even try to argue against it.

galandor.1059:

Hunter.4783:

Cogbyrn.7283:

Hunter making another “listen to me talk” post with absolutely no substance.

Nothing new in this thread, moving right along. I can’t help but feel like this is what happens when parents never say “no” to their children. Too many “chiefs” talking like their opinions are facts and should be treated as such.

You have yet to tell me why this spec is currently rocking high sustain, high burst, high mobility, CC immunity, condition immunity, 50% stun uptime on a 7.5 sec cooldown.

High sustain? No. High burst? Duh, your a glass cannon. High mobility? Yes, Warriors have always had high mobility, duh. CC immunity? Warriors are CC immune? Since when? I have an ability that gives me CC immunity for 8 seconds, hardly immune for the duration of a fight though. Condition immune? 8 seconds is condition immune? Hardly. 50% uptime on a stun? Yeah, that is what blocks, evades, dazes, blinds, stun breakers, and kiting is for. L2pson.

Dogged March 33% reduction
Melandru runes 25% reduction
Lemongrass soup 40% reduction

Add them up and you get 95% of CC immunity. Note that the warrior build in question always take Dogged March.

You have 65% reduction to condition dmg and 95% reduction to chill and immobize effects. Explain to me dear sir how the kitten are you supposed to kite a warrior with 95% CC immunity?
How many stun breaks do you have to bring to counter a 4sec stun on a 7.5 sec cooldown.

Dude, please stop trying to post on these forums defending this broken spec, every single one of your arguments is pathetic and baseless and you have been shot down each time so far.

Dand.8231:

Hunter.4783:

The warrior build in question takes 20 points in the defense line, which kinda makes it baseline. It takes effort to read the OP and understand it I know, but you should try it sometimes.

Baseline == 0/0/0/0/0
Specced =/= 0/0/0/0/0
See the contradiction?
Way to nail me for a lack of comprehension, while in the same breath, failing to properly use even the simplest terminology. You’re clearly correct here.

Hunter.4783:

Its true that bunker guards can reach more mitigation than warriors but show me 1 bunker guard who can put 1/10 the dmg which warrior build in question can. Bunker guards are being used over bunker warriors because they simply have higher sustain but they lack in anything else….they just perform well in 1 aspect and 1 aspect only.

Did you just compare the Survival of a Bunker War to a Bunker guard, and then the DPS of Bunker Guards to this totally different, NON BUNKER War, Mace GS Build?? What??

Hunter.4783:

Also lol @you for mentioning AH in sPVP. Ways to go, now I know you have no clue what u are talking about

Hey, remember that time I listed everything they could do to boost their healing/sustain, and DIDN’T mention, or limit it only to a single realm of gameplay, such as sPvP, WvW, or PvE?

No?

Probably because..

It takes effort to read the OP and understand it I know, but you should try it sometimes.

#TakingOwnAdviceFail.

I like how you are clinging to unimportant issues in order to back up your argument. The warrior build has 20 points in defense and he will have adrenal health, end of kittening story.

Also no kitten guardian bunker has a higher sustain, however the warrior build in question has too much sustain and DPS, while also having high mobility, CC immunity and 50% stun uptime. I don’t care whether they are due to traits, food, or bad game balance, they need to be adjusted

Scoobaniec.9561:

galandor.1059:

Phaeton.9582:

100 blades should be a burst skill (and sped up).

It would work but that would make 100 blades quite a bit more difficult to land effectively, imob’s can just be cleared off, thus bringing in the original problem of having 100 blades be rather useless because of it’s lack of mobility.

Was about to ask the same..

Just delete hb and replace it with something else

Stun/weapon swap adrenaline shout (on my mark) would make a mace GS combo work.

Or if 100db was sped up skull crack/one hit and hydromancy sigil on GS would suffice for a full 100db f1 attack.

Then add an interesting skill to GS 2 to bring up the weapon a bit.

EDIT: assuming you’re traited in disc, which most mace GS warriors are..

So is this entire thread just a bunch of thieves QQing about warriors or what? Clearly warriors are OP as they see so much tournament play!

This thread is terrible, right back to the launch of the game with the bulls/100b bad player stomping build. 100b is not viable vs any skilled opponent, even the class with the worst mobility (necro) can easily counter this build.

Phaeton.9582:

Scoobaniec.9561:

galandor.1059:

Phaeton.9582:

100 blades should be a burst skill (and sped up).

It would work but that would make 100 blades quite a bit more difficult to land effectively, imob’s can just be cleared off, thus bringing in the original problem of having 100 blades be rather useless because of it’s lack of mobility.

Was about to ask the same..

Just delete hb and replace it with something else

Stun/weapon swap adrenaline shout (on my mark) would make a mace GS combo work.

Or if 100db was sped up skull crack/one hit and hydromancy sigil on GS would suffice for a full 100db f1 attack.

Then add an interesting skill to GS 2 to bring up the weapon a bit.

EDIT: assuming you’re traited in disc, which most mace GS warriors are..

What if i have rifle in second set?

Scoobaniec.9561:

Phaeton.9582:

Scoobaniec.9561:

galandor.1059:

Phaeton.9582:

100 blades should be a burst skill (and sped up).

It would work but that would make 100 blades quite a bit more difficult to land effectively, imob’s can just be cleared off, thus bringing in the original problem of having 100 blades be rather useless because of it’s lack of mobility.

Was about to ask the same..

Just delete hb and replace it with something else

Stun/weapon swap adrenaline shout (on my mark) would make a mace GS combo work.

Or if 100db was sped up skull crack/one hit and hydromancy sigil on GS would suffice for a full 100db f1 attack.

Then add an interesting skill to GS 2 to bring up the weapon a bit.

EDIT: assuming you’re traited in disc, which most mace GS warriors are..

What if i have rifle in second set?

As there’s little reason to use the burst back to back I don’t see your point..

If you were running bolas for the 100db then fear me for the rifle spike the fear me could generate the adrenaline too if you did want to combo them..

Note: speeding up 100b would make bulls charge frenzy 100b work at lower tiers too

Phaeton.9582:

Scoobaniec.9561:

Phaeton.9582:

Scoobaniec.9561:

galandor.1059:

Phaeton.9582:

100 blades should be a burst skill (and sped up).

It would work but that would make 100 blades quite a bit more difficult to land effectively, imob’s can just be cleared off, thus bringing in the original problem of having 100 blades be rather useless because of it’s lack of mobility.

Was about to ask the same..

Just delete hb and replace it with something else

Stun/weapon swap adrenaline shout (on my mark) would make a mace GS combo work.

Or if 100db was sped up skull crack/one hit and hydromancy sigil on GS would suffice for a full 100db f1 attack.

Then add an interesting skill to GS 2 to bring up the weapon a bit.

EDIT: assuming you’re traited in disc, which most mace GS warriors are..

What if i have rifle in second set?

As there’s little reason to use the burst back to back I don’t see your point..

If you were running bolas for the 100db then fear me for the rifle spike the fear me could generate the adrenaline too if you did want to combo them..

I wanted to say that even if we move hb to burst, and decrease its casttimes its still remains as “i need cc” to land it, and thats the main problem with this ability. Making it mobile won’t fix it either – axe chain/whirling axe anyone? Were looking as how to fix this ability, which in fact needs a complete rework, just like rush