Guild Wars 2

I think the only way you can reliably remove conditions in anyway as a Revenant you would need to take the Centaur Stance, since you can use it to remove 3 conditions every 5 seconds if you have the energy, plus it heals per condition used. In pvp, even the glassy thief had more condition removal, so I feel like Centaur Stance might be a requirement to help survive, given how many conditions there are. A dead dps does no dps afterall.

SupahSpankeh.8452:

I think MoC is fine. I’m experimenting with it now.

BiP is 2 bleed plus 2 torment. Getting that onto the enemy, or feeding on it with CC, makes a big difference. The 2s cripple on CPC is inconsequential, so MoC adds complexity which is welcome.

I think we need to take some more time to chew over how we handle MoC and let the meta settle now CPC is worth a kitten .

With Plague Sending it’s great, but not competitive enough in pvp as it stands, because with MoC, triggering Plague Sending is super easy without having to worry about condis coming from enemies, for example in PvE with a Sinister Condi build, since you don’t need to take the actual Plague Signet to transfer the extra condis. This gives MoC interesting synergy with the added Torment to the Scepter 3 which gives Torment, plus an extra stack per condition. On the golem in the HoTM, I was able to get on average 8-10 stacks of Torment with a mix of MoC (CPC, and BiP) + a crit with Plague Sending equipped, and Signet of Spite, and that’s a quick, repeatable combo thanks to how many different condis necros can put out. Although there is supposed to be a cap on how much bonus Torment you get from FoC, so not sure how much you can get from that.

I like how it plays right now, and I’m not sure how Sinister stacks up now compared to how it was before this patch, but a Condi build with SoV, CPC, BiP, and SoS, combined with Plague Sending, MoC, and the Signets of Suffering for the might per signet (works great with Plague Sending), is at the very least, a fun build to play imo. Before, only what? Three stacks of Torment was feasible for a Necro without outside sources? Now, you can get to 10+ with Shackles, and FoC? I would like someone to run the numbers to compare a Condi build now, compared to before patch, utilizing corruptions to combo with the new FoC.

Endlos.4852:

Augh, someone’s gotten two of them and I still don’t have mine?!?

My salt is real. I love the look of that thing. I want it on my body. Now.

Don’t worry bud, me and you will get ours…on the very last day of delivery, right before reset.

Come to papa, sweet, sweet outfit!!!

Genesis.8572:

Alasteir.7031:

A Paladin is NOT specific, nor distinguishable from a Guardian. The Guardian itself already plays thematically to what a Paladin would play as. A defensive heavy armored class utilizing Holy/Light magic as their source of power.

Not necessarily, O ye of negligible imagination. D&D is a good example that demonstrates how wrong you are. The new sub-classes/specializations for paladins in 5th edition D&D, play out differently from each other. One is more defensive protector like a guardian, while another is incredibly offensively-oriented and focused on being an “avenging angel of wrath.”

You mean the 5th edition DnD in which each of the Paladin’s specializations are referred to as Paths. Path of Devotion, Path of Vengeance for example? The Paladin in that edition you cited is still thematically identical to a Guardian. An offensive Guardian would go into Zeal for example.

SilverThorn.5047:

Alasteir.7031:

Genesis.8572:

Alasteir.7031:

It also fits the Guardian, and the thousands of different ways to say Guardian. Nothing about those names screams specialization. How do you specialize in something you’re already good at? It’s like saying a branch of medicine should be called Healing. Or a Mechanic who fixes cars, calling themselves a Car fixer; they already do that. So where does the specialization part come in?

What were you saying about subjectivities of opinion being presented as fact?

FYI, the Guardian already hunts the dragons.

Because its thematically a synonym. You can’t honestly sit there and think that names like Sentinel is a word that carries a different meaning to Guarding. This isn’t subjective; there exists things such as connotation, and meaning. If two words carry the same connotation, and meaning as a Holy Warrior, then they’re synonyms.

I’ll repeat myself from the part of my post you’ve quoted. Calling a Guardian a Paladin, is sort of like calling a Medical Doctor, a Healer, and then saying they’re different. Or any other synonym for Healer. Guardian, Sentinel, Bulwark, Crusader, Paladin. They’re all in the same class as each other. Crusader is debatable from a real life standpoint, but in terms of character classes, they’re synonyms. The Crusader from D3 for example is a freakin Paladin/Guardian.

FYI, the Guardian doesn’t actively devote themselves to taking down everything dragon related. Lore-wise, if any profession is going to be the ones hunting down Sylvari, its the DH.

You are very much confused here. Though they are synonyms a specialization maintains more specific relation to the subject. A patient with heart issues gets referred to a cardiologist. No one will refer him to “That Doctor on 5th floor”.

On topic… saying a guardian implies many different meanings but a “paladin(or any other specialized name)” would give the guard it’s specialization. Guardians weild magic through “Faith” losing faith in Sylvari will power them up?? For 1 piece of lore you wanna make Guardian into a kiting cheerleader.

You sir are no guardian!

This is inaccurate. Perhaps the biggest, however debatable, distinction between a Guardian, and its base Archetype, is that the Guardian is agnostic. There is no faith required. Its ultimately defensive magic.

I’m getting the feeling that your entire reason for hating the name DH is not logical, and is nothing more than a Post-Hoc rationalization. Am I right to assume that you wanted the Guardian elite spec to be an upgrade to their existing playstyles, in which they lack a strong ranged weapon? And the resulting disappointment with the name is more of a disappointment that the elite spec won’t be an upgrade?

SilverThorn.5047:

Alasteir.7031:

SilverThorn.5047:

I know this is too mainstream but the preview and the skills make me utter a single word.

“Paladin”
why the hell not. They are the holy guards mostly associated with “light/holy” element. They are known for their ranged support and heavy armor. Nothing else fits better.

It also fits the Guardian, and the thousands of different ways to say Guardian. Nothing about those names screams specialization. How do you specialize in something you’re already good at? It’s like saying a branch of medicine should be called Healing. Or a Mechanic who fixes cars, calling themselves a Car fixer; they already do that. So where does the specialization part come in?

wth was that?

you know there are branches of medicine and each “specialization” has it’s own term. Guardian is a common term same as “doctor” but “paladin” emphasizes mastery in range and magic (same as cardiologists is doctor specialized for heart).

Even though Anet has right to decide what they want to do with their game. Players are still allowed to voice their opinions. That is what forums are for. They do make changes based on player response.

Please look up the names of those branches of medicine and notice how each name is very distinguishable. If you have ANY semblance of scientifikitteneracy you would know that there is a big difference between a Cardiologist, and a Psychiatrist. Both medical doctors, but both distinguishing fields. A Cardiologist focuses on the heart, and its immediately affected systems, while a Psychiatrist focuses on the treatment of mental disorders. Notice that huge distinction? They’re both healers, but the differences are noticeable. Same thing when it comes to a Nuclear Physicist, and a Particle Physicist. Or an Evolutionary Biologist, and a Molecular Biologist.

A Paladin is NOT specific, nor distinguishable from a Guardian. The Guardian itself already plays thematically to what a Paladin would play as. A defensive heavy armored class utilizing Holy/Light magic as their source of power.

There is no valid lore reason, they gave no valid lore reason, the guy in the live stream struggled to find words, you could see the looks on their faces that they knew the name was stupid and completely illogical.

This is utterly nonsensical. They’ve invented the lore, they can make it fit. And logic doesn’t work that way.

Guardians should NOT be “more suspicious and aggressive towards Sylvari” that goes against everything the Guardian represents. It goes against it’s entire values, morals, gameplay, EVERYTHING. We should be PROTECTING Sylvari!

That’s the distinction. At least I hope. Sure, Gw2 can be a game with a rated G story with all lovey dovey hand holding, but it makes NO SENSE, for every person in the world to be trusting of an entire race that was created by an entity that wants ALL LIFE, dead. THAT is what is illogical.

The overwhelming majority hate the name, the overwhelming majority hate the illogical dragon theme they obviously forced into this specialisation at the very last minute.

Care to provide statistics to back this up?

The name and theme of a class is SUPER important, otherwise i would just play a ranger. I don’t want to play a ranger! I want to play a holy warrior who protects his allies with the light.

You’re being completely irrational. The DH is still a guardian, all of their spells, and traps are light related. Their longbow skills are entirely different. Each skill has a different effect. Even skill 5, despite its initial animation, has an entirely different effect. Just because they have a longbow, and traps does not make them rangers. This is as superficial as you can get.

If names and theme of a class are not important they might as well call Necromancers “Emos” and make them shoot flying pink birds that sing Lady Gaga when they hit the enemy.

They’re only important to a degree. Emo is a word that doesn’t carry the same connotation as Necromancer, however, if Emo was a common staple of serious fantasy RPGs, and not a way to rail against teenagers going through an emotional phase, then it wouldn’t matter.

The names are nowhere near as important as the gameplay.

Genesis.8572:

Alasteir.7031:

It also fits the Guardian, and the thousands of different ways to say Guardian. Nothing about those names screams specialization. How do you specialize in something you’re already good at? It’s like saying a branch of medicine should be called Healing. Or a Mechanic who fixes cars, calling themselves a Car fixer; they already do that. So where does the specialization part come in?

What were you saying about subjectivities of opinion being presented as fact?

FYI, the Guardian already hunts the dragons.

Because its thematically a synonym. You can’t honestly sit there and think that names like Sentinel is a word that carries a different meaning to Guarding. This isn’t subjective; there exists things such as connotation, and meaning. If two words carry the same connotation, and meaning as a Holy Warrior, then they’re synonyms.

I’ll repeat myself from the part of my post you’ve quoted. Calling a Guardian a Paladin, is sort of like calling a Medical Doctor, a Healer, and then saying they’re different. Or any other synonym for Healer. Guardian, Sentinel, Bulwark, Crusader, Paladin. They’re all in the same class as each other. Crusader is debatable from a real life standpoint, but in terms of character classes, they’re synonyms. The Crusader from D3 for example is a freakin Paladin/Guardian.

FYI, the Guardian doesn’t actively devote themselves to taking down everything dragon related. Lore-wise, if any profession is going to be the ones hunting down Sylvari, its the DH.

SilverThorn.5047:

I know this is too mainstream but the preview and the skills make me utter a single word.

“Paladin”
why the hell not. They are the holy guards mostly associated with “light/holy” element. They are known for their ranged support and heavy armor. Nothing else fits better.

It also fits the Guardian, and the thousands of different ways to say Guardian. Nothing about those names screams specialization. How do you specialize in something you’re already good at? It’s like saying a branch of medicine should be called Healing. Or a Mechanic who fixes cars, calling themselves a Car fixer; they already do that. So where does the specialization part come in?

I am against the name “dragon hunter” as it is too specific to a class of enemies and also brings us very much close to rangers who are known as hunters in most mmos….
However, they might be naming this specialization because of introduction of bow to the class. Adding more specializations would mean that there will be other names depending on the unlocked weapon.

That’s sort of the point. They’re specializations. It is supposed to sound specific. In this case, the ready up described them as the equivalent of a Witch Hunter. In other words, they’re hunting everything related to the Elder Dragons, including Sylvari.

Ryuu.5608:

I’m still hoping that they reconsider a change at the very least, just change the name of the spec, let traps be traps (still they could’ve come with a better name like “Seals” or “Runes” and give them a trap mechanic).

Gameplay wise, the new spec looks interesting (not gonna lie on this one), HOWEVER the name is still unfitting and dull.

And this is the problem with this whole discussion. That is your opinion, not a fact. If you prefer burgers over pizza, or rap over rock that is your opinion. The name has nothing to do with the gameplay, and they’ve given it a lore explanation to make it fit, and since this is their IP, they can work on that explanation to make it fit. This entire issue is superficial and shallow.

It’s a slippery slope if Arenanet starts making decisions based on the personal tastes of the playerbase who is active on either the forums, or other media outlets they have access to. Unless it has an affect on gameplay, there’s no valid reason to change it.

Arnath.2319:

It would be very easy for them to remove the dragon theme from this specialisation.

Rename the following:
LongBow 5 skill “Hunter’s Ward”.
Elite Trap “Dragon’s Maw”.
Traits “Hunter’s Determination”, “Hunter’s Fortification” and “Big Game Hunter”.
The elite spec name “DragonHunter”

—>That would take the devs less then a hour to do.

Change the following:
The animation for “Dragon’s Maw”.
Sell the unique Longbow and Glove skins on the gem store, give us new unique skins not Dragon themed.

—>This would take slightly longer to do compared to name changes, but should still be easy to do.

Done. I just fixed this elite spec, you are welcome ArenaNet

You didn’t fix anything. The name has nothing to do with gameplay, and given the explanation from the Ready up, have a valid lore reason now. The difference between DH players, and non DH players is lore wise, the DH players are going to be more suspicious and aggressive towards Sylvari, and the like.

I still don’t understand why everyone is acting like the name is a big deal. ArenaNet should just keep it as is, insteading of wasting time brainstorming about another name. Sure, they could be lazy and just name the DH a Paladin, or any other word for Guardian, but since it’s just a name, and not gameplay, why change it? It’s such a shallow criticism.

People have been more critical about the name of a specialization, than most of the other things announced so far. Some people like the name, others don’t, most people care more about its gameplay, so who should they listen to? In this case, Anet shouldn’t change the names of things, unless there’s a valid reason; like if there’s a skill named Holocaust or something. They gave a lore reason as to what the DH is, and its fine. It’s too subjective to make a big deal about it.

Harvest.2506:

Alasteir.7031:

Harvest.2506:

Alasteir.7031:

Genesis.8572:

Alasteir.7031:

You can bet your kitten that the dragonhunters in other fantasy settings are not the Paladin archetype. At least for the most part.

Since when have knights and holy warriors fighting dragons not been done to death? In D&D – the granddaddy of all tabletop RPG and computer/video gaming – dragon-hunting paladin archetypes are exceptionally common.

When the description of the Dragonhunter is that of a big-game hunter, you get a different connotation that those archetypes, especially with the lore of the Elder Dragons being Natural, and not intrinsically evil, or demonic. If something has been done to death, and you want to do it, the least you can do is make it as original as possible. Every solution proposed so far just makes it more overdone.

Like, if those random name generators that you find online gave you the option to list a name for a paladin archetype, pretty much all of the solutions other than Photonbuster would probably come up.

Hold on! Gonna find me one of those generators!

Well you asked ME to come up with one that describes a light-user taking down big things that hasn’t been done. and I did on my own without a generator.

I did? Wasn’t that someone else?

opps yeah sorry that was devillordlaser. carry on. i want to see this generator now.

All I could find was one for general class names. Got stuff like Legendary Witch Heretic, and Imperial Hell Templar.

Genesis.8572:

Leo G.4501:

I’d say we still need more and more varied. While some of those alternatives are good, again, most have nothing to do with the flavor of the spec. While generic is good, it wouldn’t hurt coming up with more options that actually have a flavor.

As a counterpoint, I would argue that the name ‘druid’ is incredibly generic as far as fantasy goes. It simply evokes ‘nature priest/mage.’ It says nothing about the profession mechanics, unless you come with the D&D and WoW assumption that druids shapeshift. Same is true for many professions: e.g., thief, warrior, engineer, ranger, etc. ‘Guardian’ is also a generic term that gives us little sense for the profession mechanics only assumptions that it may be more defensive in its playstyle. That is why I lean towards a generic term for a more proactive, justice-minded holy warrior.

Alasteir.7031:

It’s more of the fact that Avenger is a generic term often associated with the Holy Warrior archetype found in fantasy. Still doesn’t relate to why it uses traps, and stuff.

The guardian name says nothing about using virtues, consecrations, shouts, meditations, or any of its mechanics either.

It still gives you an indication of what they’re doing, like Chronomancer, or hell, yes even Druid. Druids are not often linked with Rangers, are they not usually distinct, yet sometimes associated? Druid immediately invokes the idea that Nature Magic would be its thing. Same with Chronomancy and Time Magic. Avenger does what? Dragonhunting, although poor, invokes the hunting aspect better than Avenger, while distinguishing it from just a general hunter; Crusader, or Inquisitor, or Sentinel aren’t any better.

Kentaine.4692:

Alasteir.7031:

Genesis.8572:

Alasteir.7031:

You can bet your kitten that the dragonhunters in other fantasy settings are not the Paladin archetype. At least for the most part.

Since when have knights and holy warriors fighting dragons not been done to death? In D&D – the granddaddy of all tabletop RPG and computer/video gaming – dragon-hunting paladin archetypes are exceptionally common.

When the description of the Dragonhunter is that of a big-game hunter, you get a different connotation that those archetypes, especially with the lore of the Elder Dragons being Natural, and not intrinsically evil, or demonic. If something has been done to death, and you want to do it, the least you can do is make it as original as possible. Every solution proposed so far just makes it more overdone.

Like, if those random name generators that you find online gave you the option to list a name for a paladin archetype, pretty much all of the solutions other than Photonbuster would probably come up.

Hold on! Gonna find me one of those generators!

I dunno, but an avenger class going after a dragon seems less frequently done then a dragon hunter- sorry, dragonhunter- class going after a dragon.

And why do those names instead of dragonhunter come up? Because they fit the theme and lore of the class you asked for. Dragonhunter is so left field, it’s too left field.

It’s more of the fact that Avenger is a generic term often associated with the Holy Warrior archetype found in fantasy. Still doesn’t relate to why it uses traps, and stuff.

Harvest.2506:

Alasteir.7031:

Genesis.8572:

Alasteir.7031:

You can bet your kitten that the dragonhunters in other fantasy settings are not the Paladin archetype. At least for the most part.

Since when have knights and holy warriors fighting dragons not been done to death? In D&D – the granddaddy of all tabletop RPG and computer/video gaming – dragon-hunting paladin archetypes are exceptionally common.

When the description of the Dragonhunter is that of a big-game hunter, you get a different connotation that those archetypes, especially with the lore of the Elder Dragons being Natural, and not intrinsically evil, or demonic. If something has been done to death, and you want to do it, the least you can do is make it as original as possible. Every solution proposed so far just makes it more overdone.

Like, if those random name generators that you find online gave you the option to list a name for a paladin archetype, pretty much all of the solutions other than Photonbuster would probably come up.

Hold on! Gonna find me one of those generators!

Well you asked ME to come up with one that describes a light-user taking down big things that hasn’t been done. and I did on my own without a generator.

I did? Wasn’t that someone else?

Genesis.8572:

Alasteir.7031:

You can bet your kitten that the dragonhunters in other fantasy settings are not the Paladin archetype. At least for the most part.

Since when have knights and holy warriors fighting dragons not been done to death? In D&D – the granddaddy of all tabletop RPG and computer/video gaming – dragon-hunting paladin archetypes are exceptionally common.

When the description of the Dragonhunter is that of a big-game hunter, you get a different connotation that those archetypes, especially with the lore of the Elder Dragons being Natural, and not intrinsically evil, or demonic. If something has been done to death, and you want to do it, the least you can do is make it as original as possible. Every solution proposed so far just makes it more overdone.

Like, if those random name generators that you find online gave you the option to list a name for a paladin archetype, pretty much all of the solutions other than Photonbuster would probably come up.

Hold on! Gonna find me one of those generators!

Harvest.2506:

Alasteir.7031:

DevilLordLaser.8619:

…Photonbuster.

Yep. You sure showed me, man. That is such an amazing choice I can’t believe it hasn’t come up before. Absolutely. That is the 100% perfect name for a righteous hunter. Going to go preach it to the rest of the forums right now.

.
..
…
….#sarcasm.

I do believe someone on reddit also mentioned, to their credit that complaining about the fact that it’s called the Dragonhunter, when we all hunt dragons makes no sense, in which they cite Diablo III as an example where the primary enemies are Demons, and the Demon Hunter exists as a class despite every class focusing on killing demons.

I feel this is the idea behind the Dragonhunter. You can therefore expect their trait names, spell names to be anti-dragon themed, or just with a general draconic flair. Their effectively a variation of the Demon-Hunter archetype of a righteous warrior focusing their entire purpose in life to killing Demons. I think that’s what Arenanet was playing with. Dragons are the main enemy, and the Guardians realize defending people is not enough, so they focus on killing, all without making Dragonhunters op when it comes to pve battles involving dragons, giving them an unfair advantage. Could be wrong however.

here https://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/357a70/fixing_dragon_hunters_lukewarm_reception_is/

WarDuggery on Reddit suggested the idea, but was counteredd by joshuarion saying that we’re not soloing or hunting dragons on our own. in THIS game. DH in d3 had lore build around them, they were not branched out into another type of class all together.

By the way why in the Hell of Abaddon should we be following Diablo 3 anyways. All because they copy all the good ideas from Arena net doesn’t me Anet should copy all of Blizzards crappy ones. Wow did just lose 3 million Subs for a reason.

I used D3 as an example. That’s supposed to mean something. The idea was not to copy Blizzard, but using D3 as an example to point out that Dragonhunter can’t be used because every profession is a dragon hunter, is something that can be applied to Warriors. Everything that a Warrior would be expected to do, every profession has done in the story. If you can then say that in this context, Warrior can mean something different, then logically that can also be applied to Dragonhunter. Really would like a space in that name, by the way.

Thankfully ‘Dragonhunter’ has never been done to excruciating death in anything fantasy, ever.

You can bet your kitten that the dragonhunters in other fantasy settings are not the Paladin archetype. At least for the most part.

Genesis.8572:

Sorean.5379:

You guys must at least watch the video before you say something about the name.

It is a trapper.
He is a hunter.

“Zealot”,“Paragon” and the likes dont fit him. Dragonhunter is perfect.

‘Avenger’ or ‘Crusader’ for the more pro-active ‘Guardian.’ ‘Dragonhunter’ is neither inspiring, evocative, nor imaginative as a name.

Avenger, and Crusader are some of the most unoriginal, and unimaginative names one could possibly come up with for a holy warrior in an extremely popular genre that is filled with holy warriors. No fantasy world goes without mentioning some variation of Avenger, Crusader, or something involving a name originating from historical events related to Judeo-Christian influences.

Dante.1763:

Frightlight.3796:

Dante.1763:

Thank goodness you dont have that power. Whining is a good things for the devs too, as it allows them to get feedback on things, sure it might not sound to great, but it is feedback.

Feed back is good if it is done in the right way rather than just complaining about it without giving reason why it doesn’t sound acceptable.

Most of the whining though does give feedback, especially dealing with the new Guardian specialization. It all comes down to to things. 1.) the name is horrible for the class(Which i agree with). 2.) “traps” are at the moment useless.(Im not sure on this, i dont use them…but i only play in PVE).

Most of the whining is irrational. Arguing over whether the name is horrible or not, is like arguing if pizza is better than a burger in terms of taste, particularly with the description of what the spec does. As for traps, this implies that Anet is not doing anything to skill balance. Like people saying the new specs or certain traits are going to be useless in HoT, because they have no place in the current dungeon meta.

There are a lot of viable alternatives out there, IMHO: Arbiter, Avenger, Inquisitor, and Vindicator all readily come to mind as proposed alternatives.

And all of those examples are either excruciatingly overdone in anything fantasy, ever. While things like Inquisitor are a largely mixed bag, like Crusader.

Play the Guild Wars 1 mesmer and get back to me.

I did. In fact, Chronomancer was going to be an entirely different class in gw1, not a mesmer attribute line. Sounds similar to the Ranger Guardian debate going on with this.

Hence why you are doing a terrible job playing apologetics for the terrible name ‘Dragonhunter.’

There exists somewhere, an ultimate standard in the Universe that dictates what is, and what isn’t a terrible name. Or put another way, whether or not it’s terrible is largely subjective.

But imagine that if this specialization had been called ‘crud-eater,’ you would still be defending ArenaNet to the death.

How very rational to assign intent to a stranger on the internet. Yes, yes. Anyone who disagrees with you MUST love anet. There couldn’t possibly exist any other reason over matters of subjectivity.

Inquisitor. Again, check out the Pathfinder ‘Inquisitor’ class, which is precisely a bow-wielding divine/defensive magic-using hunter of big scary monsters.

So they should copy from somewhere else? Inquisitor has other connotations associated with it, none of which imply a hunter of evil monsters.

Do you have evidence that it does?

See the Burden of Proof. Until the ready up, and further information is released, the people saying it has no lore basis must be the ones to provide evidence, since they’re the ones making the initial claim.

DevilLordLaser.8619:

…Photonbuster.

Yep. You sure showed me, man. That is such an amazing choice I can’t believe it hasn’t come up before. Absolutely. That is the 100% perfect name for a righteous hunter. Going to go preach it to the rest of the forums right now.

.
..
…
….#sarcasm.

I do believe someone on reddit also mentioned, to their credit that complaining about the fact that it’s called the Dragonhunter, when we all hunt dragons makes no sense, in which they cite Diablo III as an example where the primary enemies are Demons, and the Demon Hunter exists as a class despite every class focusing on killing demons.

I feel this is the idea behind the Dragonhunter. You can therefore expect their trait names, spell names to be anti-dragon themed, or just with a general draconic flair. Their effectively a variation of the Demon-Hunter archetype of a righteous warrior focusing their entire purpose in life to killing Demons. I think that’s what Arenanet was playing with. Dragons are the main enemy, and the Guardians realize defending people is not enough, so they focus on killing, all without making Dragonhunters op when it comes to pve battles involving dragons, giving them an unfair advantage. Could be wrong however.

Genesis.8572:

Alasteir.7031:

Time Magic =/= illusion magic for example.

The mesmer is about chaos magic and both illusion and time magic are aspects of chaos magic.

The mesmer, all the way down to its name and its style of gameplay is based on illusion. The only time related skill is Time Warp, afaik. Chaos Magic is the in-lore description of its “element”.

But the fact that they can make Chronomancer fit, just means Dragonhunter shouldn’t be a problem with skills like “Dragon’s Maw”. Add some draconic flair, or something related to hunting threatening forces, and the theme would fit.

DevilLordLaser.8619:

Should we just call it the Marvel, while we’re at it? Or perhaps the Cap?

Same with Arbiter. * ‘Arbiter’ either means a very particular Elite from an old Bungie property, or someone who decides against you in a legal decision out of court. Furthermore, neither of those words remotely suggest a hunter, which is what this new specialization is. *

Frankly, Archangel is closer to the correct idea, but it’s also patently unsuitable as these things are not, in fact, divine beings. Which also shoots down Valkyrie twice over, for that matter. And again, coming up with every single possible way of saying "Guardian’ except with different letters offers absolutely no indication of what this class actually does.

This new specialization is a big-game hunter who fuels his archery and his traps with righteous light manifested as burning energy/constructs. Ya know what? There is no good one-word name for one of those. “Dragonhunter” is honestly about as close as we can realistically get to a single word which tries (and does partially fail, but less so than anything else I’ve seen) to make what the thing does intuitively understandable from its name alone.

Until you can find me a one-word title that says “Light-manipulating hunter of large angry animals”, we’re probably going to have to stick with Dragonhunter as the best they can do.

That’s what happens when you get beyond established tropes in a fantasy setting – longstanding one-word names just don’t really work anymore.

Jfc thank you. As a writer I was really glad, rather, largely surprised that Arenanet went with something unique and creative. Okay, maybe not unique, but since when in a fantasy setting do you see a holy warrior, become a big game hunter? The closest thing to a Dragonhunter in this sense is a Demon hunter. And it largely kittenes me off that most people’s ideas are painfully cliche and trite.

For the love of god, why does it HAVE to be something that exists in literally every fantasy book, show, movie, game EVER? Why does it HAVE to obey the natural law of it sticking to its defensive holy theme? Especially with the description of what the Dragonhunter does?

But the way this is going, Anet is probably going to change the name. All I can hope for is something unique that fits the specialization NOT the Guardian class itself. Time Magic =/= illusion magic for example.

Giving the elite spec traps does give it a rangery feel, which means most names being something only ever used for the Paladin archetype make little sense. Arenanet went with something creative, rather than unbearably cliche (they should just change the elite spec and name it Avenger, and give it spell names like “Avenging Wrath” or “Retribution Aura”) which I largely applaud them for, and the response was effectively that they’re not allowed to be original. Guardians MUST fit their DnD archetype, when it comes to Elite specs.

Ansau.7326:

The only way to improve this build is to move to a power damage one. Sorry, but AoE condi builds don’t have a place in zergs cause the massive AoE condi cleanse.

And it will get worse with the implementation of specializations. Builds will have much more condi cleansing and the core traits of your build (Confusing Enchantments and clone death traits) are going to dissapear.

Here is my footage testing a similar build. The numbers are pretty much the maximum cap you can get (I calculate 2600 condi damage and +93% confusion duration). If you watch the rest of the video you can see me doing 4-6k with power shatter…
https://youtu.be/it_nzabmk_Y?t=427

The basis of my build was largely on the hypothetical assumption that clones or illusions utilized in Shatter builds would be killed before they reach their target. Fay’s argument suggests this, because the clones need to run within range of the zerg without dying in order for the shatter to work, and this is the main weakness of the on death condition build. The clones dying before they reached their target. However, I find it interesting to note all the times Confusion damage is ticking in your video, despite supposed constant condition cleanse.

Of course, this still doesn’t change the flaws in the build that I was considering. Of course theoretically, it seems sound to me, and most experiences that I have with zergs, are like the ones in your video. People are human and with all that’s going on aren’t going to immediately cleanse every threatening condition put on them. This still leaves the issue of the damage it does, and in the video it seems low. Hence where my build’s premise has its main flaw. Shatter is as unreliable as the build that I proposed, theoretically, assuming the zerg has perfect human beings who have perfect cleansing timing, and they manage to kill all incoming clones.

Unfortunately, it seems that Shatter is better simply because its damage doesn’t have a ramp up time. Put another way, if you somehow managed to shatter your clones successfully, as most criticisms of Mesmer would have you believe that this is impossible, because of the perfect awareness of the enemy zerg, you’ll do all of your damage upfront, while condition damage needs to be built up to rival the shatter damage, and this can be cleansed.

Still, I suppose I could defend my build by saying that Aegis or blind is to Shatter builds (or other direct damage mitigating factors), what condi cleanse is to condition builds. I’ve even thought about replacing the scepter with greatsword, primarily due to how its clone on the #2 works, but that doesn’t change much. Other than provide more direct damage thanks to the range of spacial surge. Ultimately, all I can hope for is that HoT changes the Mesmer enough to be more of a presence in WvW, besides being a portal/veil bot.

Fay.2357:

2160 no might. Stacking sigils matter.

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fhAQNAW7dlknpYttqxUNUrNSphc6nRbiyxhJZgDA-T1xCABpobAgHAAOq/I0+DHfBASUJYWK/IFwiSjA-w

You have no access to good aoe torment. Tormenting sigil is just a tiny bit here and there, it’s not really significant. Bleeds, same problem. 33% of the time a clone will pop for a couple bleeds that will tick for a couple seconds and do minimal damage. Reflect damage is potentially non-trivial, but you can’t rely on it. Zerg metas rely on gtAoE and cleave damage, not ranged. Now and then you’ll get great stuff from feedback, but it’s highly inconsistent.

Fair enough.

Your clones aren’t gonna survive for more than a quarter of a second. If they do survive for more than a quarter of a second, it means they’re not near the enemy group, and so when they pop the clone death traits won’t hit anyone.

This point I struggle to take in, as in my experience, generally mesmer clones in heavy zerg clashes tend to be up a lot of time. Specifically clones, not phantasms; I always attributed it to the fact that clone behavior was obvious, and it was pointless to therefore attack them, since clones are useless. Especially the commonly spawned clones from gs mesmers. So this, ehh. Anecdotes, versus personal experience, which isn’t really much better, but theoretically I’ll accept the rebuke.

Perplexity runes are not popular in zerg builds, so that’s besides the point.

The meta back then didn’t run with a lot of condition removal. Really the only condition threat for the most part was the glamour mesmer. Now, zergs constantly do aoe condition removal from shouts, ele fields, and other assorted utilities. You’re right that it’s not always going to remove your confusion immediately, but it will a good amount of the time.

I actually wasn’t aware of this. I do know that perplexity runes were popular, unfortunately a lot of the popularity that I found didn’t talk in specifics. Not that most people even talk in specifics, but hey! Back then, I didn’t run in large organized zergs running meta builds, so there was enough build variety, both useful and useless that I honestly wasn’t aware that the existing meta lacked condition removal.

Another thing to keep in mind is that glamour confusions only work if they actually walk through your glamours. This means that situations where they’re spread out or not moving much leave you more or less unable to do damage. Glamour builds are most effective on a dense group moving through a choke or some other movement-restricting area, because that forces them all to walk through your glamours. This, unfortunately, is also the period of time that aoe condition is both most potent and most often used. It’s not a good combination for your damage.

I’ll contest part of this in the differing situations in which stacking occurs. A zerg running through the pseudo-gate to one of the camps in the borderlands, is generally already finished with stacking. At least with the zergs I’ve observed, and depending on their reactions, either rush through using the usual fields such as the Guardian’s Symbol of Swiftness. At that point they’ll just run through the glamours for MASSIVE DAMAGE! No, I kid. I will admit that the glamour trait was to simply get more use out of the required utilities of the Mesmers, if they exist in the zerg. Nullfield never hurts, portals are their main staple. I figured, hey! Why not. Wasn’t exactly the basis of the build, but rather creating a more reliable way of dealing damage, since phantasms/shatters are arguably worse.

Ultimately, yeah…you’ll tag people. You’ll do a bit of damage if you use the glamours right. You’re just not going to do very much. Remember that on top of this all, your damage is 50% that of an old glamour build, before taking into account any of the meta changes like condition removal. Imagine if suddenly shatter builds were just nerfed to 50% of what they used to do. Do you think they’d be useful or in any way decent? Glamour builds are no different.

In my defense, 1800 condition damage, with just 5 stacks of Confusion on someone auto-attacking, would do roughly 1000 damage per hit, per action, and that’s nothing to sneeze at, but on a serious note, as stated in an earlier paragraph, this isn’t a glamour build, as it is a general condition build, simply attempting to make the most of the “required” utilities that Mesmers bring in a zerg, while trying to get more damage out on top of regular portal/veil botting, than what a phantasm/shatter build would do. I wasn’t exactly expecting it to be the meta. Certainly not with HoT on the horizon.

Fay.2357:

This is pretty much the glamour build of yore. It’s not really run anymore for a pretty good reason: it does close to nothing.

The confusion doesn’t hurt much (yes, even with your 1500 condition damage, which, btw, is really low. Back when I ran glamour builds, I’d have 2100 before might.). It just gets cleansed off immediately or just ignored. Once you’ve put down your glamours and chaos storm, you’re basically left with almost nothing. You can try to sorta strafe a group with confusing images, but that’s of limited effectiveness. Clone explosions do a little bit, but they often won’t hit many people unless you’re right in the middle of things (dangerous place to be with no stunbreaks or stability).

Ultimately, using this build will get you some tags, but that’s about it. You’re not going to be actually contributing much to your group in a meaningful way.

Several things, what setup did you use to reach 2100 condition damage without might? I’m getting everything I possibly can through the build editor, and reaching 1800 is already rough. The only thing missing is condition damage modifiers based on toughness. With those modifiers it reaches close to 1900. So I’d like to know how you did that, so I can replicate it.

Secondly, besides going into your vague generalities, confusion by itself wouldn’t be enough of course. Wouldn’t the combination of torment, the bleeds from the clones, and reflect damage add up to rival, or surpass a shatter, or phantasm build in this same setting? Especially on a fast attacking target like a Longbow Ranger? 1800 condition damage with just 5 stacks of Confusion could be quite threatening to a longbow ranger casting Rapid Fire.

Third, depending on the scenario, from experience, organized zergs tend to ignore mesmer clones in favor of higher priority targets. The exception of course being clones being in the proximity of aoe that is meant for an actual player.

Lastly, in zerg scenarios, I often find that permanent condi cleanse isn’t an actual thing, and that regularly there are periods of time where it does damage, especially in groups that scatter, like in the midst of an actual clash. Otherwise, the glamour build of yore wouldn’t have been nerfed, as the confusion that it originally applied would’ve been just easily cleansed no? It also contradicts the popularity of perplexity runes.

So I’ve been contemplating on a zerg build for Mesmers, since there is just something about them that I love thematically, especially in WvW, but unfortunately it seems Mesmers do not have a strong place. The idea behind this build is to take from the previously dominant condition builds from spvp during the old condition damage meta that relies upon the on-death traits for clones. Of course the logic here is that Mesmers’ dominant source of direct damage is through the use of phantasms, and shatters, both of which seem dubious in a zerg conflict. So naturally, a build that relies upon the quick death of your clones, on top of quick, and consistent illusion production seems a rational choice. The faster your clones die, the better no?

I also decided to add a bit of the old glamour build traits that were previously considered OP in WvW. Specifically, the confusion upon entering a glamour. Not exactly a good trait in a vacuum, but combined with perplexity runes, the confusion duration trait, Sinister stat set, and the on-death traits, it could theoretically be threatening to a zerg, and can ideally cause a lot of pressure. This adding of the glamour traits just so happens to retain the Mesmer’s primary function in WvW as a portal/mass invis bot. Although it lacks Veil, this is a trade off that I’m not too sure if it’s worth it or not.

So I’m wondering what are some improvements that could be made to this build? And, has anyone ran a similar build that can provide feedback based on their experimentation? I have yet to experiment myself due to lacking the Sinister stat armor, but it is something that I’m eager to test. Ultimately the idea here, is maximizing the Mesmers’ contribution to a zerg conflict, while still providing their primary function.

http://intothemists.com/calc/?build=VO;4kUk-107JV-71;9;41421147-49-4;01;04;01x0GU;1bUytbUytX0kkCSjM;3rdr8sds8tdt8451Wc7B1;9;9;9;9;9;9;04-7y

Edited to include a Sigil of Energy that I forgot to add.

Fay.2357:

MailMail.6534:

I hope I’m not the first to tell you this pyro, but I can’t point out many times where I thought you were helpful to any discussion you have partaken in. The language you use in your posts is quite counter-productive to open-dialogue. It doesn’t bother me, but I know it bothers others, so it’s worth noting here.

Hopefully it’s obvious to the original poster that DPS is leaps and bounds more effective than condition builds in PvE!! The weapon set you want is specifically condition-based, but NiceNikeShoe gives a good suggestion. That being said, there are ways to overcompensate for such by adding lots of utility and proper traiting. I’ll reiterate, if you’re playing with someone who would rather 4-man a dungeon instead of playing with your condition build, then you probably don’t wanna play with that person in the first place either.

If you actually read NiceNikeShoe’s post, you’d notice that they specifically said it only works for solo damage, never with a party. You’re literally the only person here that seems to think that condition damage is even remotely viable in a party composition for PvE.

I don’t try to be nice and coddly with my posts. I speak accurately and bluntly, and in this case accuracy means that I note how completely useless condition damage builds are in parties. If you’re going for a dungeon solo build, condition damage can be great, knock yourself out. Just don’t bring it to parties and expect to be welcomed.

To be perfectly honest, your posts are unnecessarily kittenish. Sure, in a vacuum, where the human condition doesn’t exist, tone and tact do not exist, but this is reality, and in order to be persuasive you need tact; which means your tone is more damaging to getting across good information than beneficial. Then there’s this whole “viable” nonsense. I hate to break it to you, but due to the combat system in this game, and the dungeon mechanics themselves, unless you are specifically playing with people who want the fastest runs, then viable is an utterly meaningless term.

I’ve personally done dungeons and fractals with almost an entire group of people running builds that aren’t “viable” and the content still gets done. The content ends, everyone says thank you all, or something along those lines, and they are on their way. This is important because since viable in gw2 does not mean what it does in any other game, it needs a clear distinction. This means the word viable only applies to organized speed runs or pug speed runs led by people who should really specify that it’s meta builds only; primarily for practical purposes. “Why should I?” is not practical, and specifying meta is, because it’ll decrease the chances of people running non-viable builds.

To the OP: If you want to run those weapons, then by all means do so; just be aware that for the most part, you might come across a few unsavory characters who will act as if your utilization of sup-optimal/useless builds is an act of murder. That’s not hyperbole; I’ve literally seen people get far more upset over stuff like this than people actually dying. That means, that if you want to run dungeons, it is simply psychologically safer to run the meta. For Mesmers, it’s sword/sword sword/focus, and pistol offhand at times; while maximizing your crit chance using the precision stat instead of percentages (meaning take Assassin’s gear).

However! Given that some of the Mordrem in open world take far less damage from direct damage than conditions, using Scepter/Torch and Staff can arguably be beneficial in places like the Silverwastes, especially with Mesmers having an unparalleled access to Torment.

Boneheart.3561:

Alasteir.7031:

Lord Kuru.3685:

Regina Buenaobra.6193:

Something that would help is if you could gather a thread for each dungeon (perhaps you’ve all already created one per dungeon?), and list out the major changes that you feel the dungeons would need to make them better, in concise bullet points. That way it’s easier for us to provide them to the development team.

Every time there’s a public outcry about something, this is what Anet asks for. People are foolish enough to oblige. It cools them off because they think Anet is finally listening. And Anet gets away with doing nothing.

For example, see WvW forum: this has happened several times there already.

I’m sorry but Anet isn’t a sloth demon. They don’t sit there finding excuses to be lazy. You want Anet to listen? Treat them as if they’re humans with human limitations, capable of having stress, don’t like having their toes stepped on, or being yelled at and insulted, and actually provide constructive criticism (as per the standards listed in the sticky on the general discussion forum I do believe, and not some rude, self-esteem inflated kittenization of constructive criticism in which the devs are outright insulted).

Whoa there, Bono! You are asking too much.

You’re probably right. I need to go to home depot to buy some materials to create signs to protest with! BRB

Lord Kuru.3685:

Regina Buenaobra.6193:

Something that would help is if you could gather a thread for each dungeon (perhaps you’ve all already created one per dungeon?), and list out the major changes that you feel the dungeons would need to make them better, in concise bullet points. That way it’s easier for us to provide them to the development team.

Every time there’s a public outcry about something, this is what Anet asks for. People are foolish enough to oblige. It cools them off because they think Anet is finally listening. And Anet gets away with doing nothing.

For example, see WvW forum: this has happened several times there already.

I’m sorry but Anet isn’t a sloth demon. They don’t sit there finding excuses to be lazy. You want Anet to listen? Treat them as if they’re humans with human limitations, capable of having stress, don’t like having their toes stepped on, or being yelled at and insulted, and actually provide constructive criticism (as per the standards listed in the sticky on the general discussion forum I do believe, and not some rude, self-esteem inflated kittenization of constructive criticism in which the devs are outright insulted).

Kulvar.1239:

The Living Worlds s2 is good, but…

There’s a new human lesbian couple. It’s said to be rare in Tyria. Why making a new human lesbian couple so obviously ? There’s other races… And where’s the gay couple ? Why do you not insist as much on straight couples ?

Also during an interview it’s said that people don’t think it matter. Why insisting so much on it so ? We don’t know these noble woman, why does she yell to us that she’s with another women ? It’s like being at a party and a stranger come and tell you she’s lesbian… We don’t care !

If you want to introduce lesbian/gay/straight couple, let us know them more intimately before or don’t bother to make NPC tell us this.
If they talk each other or are side by side, it’s enough hints for NPC we don’t care about.

Your awareness of this is rather odd, given that there is a straight couple given focus in the form of those two quaggan. And there is no difference between a gay or a lesbian couple. Different terms used to describe the fact that there are two facets of one particular form of sexual orientation, but why does this bother you so much? If it wasn’t a big deal, you’d not put too much focus on it, and move on. Hell, I didn’t even notice this, I thought the woman just meant like, this is her friend.

Levistis.8356:

IT WAS SO kittenING AWESOME MY GOD!

That was a fun fight. The hype was real. Kudos anet, amazing job.

I’m hoping this is the vibe every new Dragon Champion gets, because kitten . That was awesome!

Arewn.2368:

Haven’t played it yet, but so long as these are just nameless background characters, it’s fine by me. Just view them in the same stroke as the other random NPC couples you see around Tyria from time to time (like those 2 quaggan, or the housewives talking about their husbands in DR, or the flirty couple that used to be in Fort Salma, etc).

That said, this is GW2, a video game, not someone’s personal platform for raising w.e social awareness problem they want. If they start shoving it down our throats by giving such matters repeated attention or special focus, people are going to get jaded and discontent.
Hopefully it doesn’t come to that though.

People aren’t going to get jaded over something completely normal and okay, and the way they’re doing it is perfectly acceptable for the rating of the game. The OP is right, no one really cares too much, and they shouldn’t, just like they shouldn’t care if there was a straight couple introduced the same way, which is why they don’t put too much focus on it. Maybe a few years ago, it would have been a wtf moment, but now it’s common enough not to be “how dare you shove your different lifestyle where I know you exist!”

Esplen.3940:

Guardian can provide reflects with better uptime than Feedback and projectile destruction with better uptime than 2 Wardens (once 3 Wardens are out, it’s 100% uptime).

Guardians can also provide 10 seconds of Quickness (on par with Time Warp) in 2 5 second bursts 15 seconds apart. The cooldown on this is significantly shorter than TW.

Guardians can provide Aegis, Stability, and Swiftness for running as a group. Mesmer can drop portals but they still have to run it (typically solo) and they don’t have very good swiftness uptime, so unless you retraiting for PU in between fights (and/or waiting on all cooldowns so you can swap to Decoy Veil Blink MI) you’re not going to have a good time with Portal.

Additionally, Guardian has higher DPS than a Warrior, but can’t do PS for permanent 25 party Might.

The only downsides to bringing a Guardian over a Mesmer are:
Wall reflect vs Dome.
Projectile Destruction is worse after 20s
To get TW, dps goes down the drain (but still exists).

Upsides to bringing a Guardian over a Mesmer:
Safety and Damage.
Higher Reflect Uptime
Projectile Destruction is better assuming things don’t only use projectiles (aka every fight except Alphard and most bosses in CM).

You can simply bring a S/D or S/F ele for might stacking in conjunction with the other profession’s blast finishers to provide might stacking, so the notion of the upsides of bringing a guardian over a mesmer applies to other classes as well. Perhaps PS Warriors can actively provide permanent might across the fight (arguably so can eles due to constant reliable firefields), and PS Warriors have inferior dps to the more optimal dps builds for Warriors, while the might roll is primarily relegated to an Ele. Of course this entire discussion is exclusively referring to a group in which only the 5 most optimal builds for record runs are allowed, so unless we’re arguing in a bubble, reality would dictate what is brought and what isn’t a bit differently.

maha.7902:

RyuDragnier.9476:

maha.7902:

Do you even play Mesmer? They are not wanted in pve. They are absolute garbage in pve. They’re literally the joke of my guild. They’re wanted in wvw for veil then you might as well get lost. In PvP, well I’d say the lack of mesmers at high level, and high level mesmers playing other classes says enough about how good it is there.

Funny, every party I’ve been in for dungeons and fractals wants Mesmers due to how much damage they can dish out, their ability to reflect every projectile back at the enemy regardless of direction it’s fired in (completely trivializes several bosses), their AoE condition/boon controlling (makes the golem boss in CoE a joke), the ability to half the damage everybody takes with the Phantasmal Defender, a line of stealth, etc. If your guild thinks they’re useless, then I’m sorry, but the people in your guild know not of what they speak of, and are probably (I’m saying this in the kindest terms) ignorant.

Mesmer has worse than average DPS, and that’s assuming even longer fights, on shorter fights (below 30s) their DPS is abysmal. Sounds like your parties are uninformed and don’t realise that mesmers are completely replaceable by guardian. As for boon removal on the COE golem you realise you can just kill the turret for protection? And I wasn’t aware that being in the guild that basically sets the meta game meant we were uninformed, maybe you should do a little research.

Didn’t Dekeys from your own guild release data that suggests mesmers have good dps assuming 3 iswordsman, and long fights? I do believe she did, and if she did (I know she did) then your opening sentence is demonstrably false. As for the Meta, again, according to your own guild’s information, Mesmers are very much a part of the meta with their reflects. The only profession that is truly out of the meta is Necro. Even rangers with spotter and frost spirit have a unique place. Mesmers with Feedback, Timewarp, and untraited wardens provide enough utility to give them a place in the meta.

However, I get the feeling that’ll you take issue with everything I said, so let’s see if I can explain my reasoning in detail, since the meta is a lot more nuanced than you seem to believe.

1. Feedback provides more reliability than Wall of Reflection (highlighted in fights like the grawl fractal, against the legendary shaman), and is pretty much a must, leaving the Guardian to switch to a more useful utility should the extra reflect not be necessary.

2. Timewarp is a dps increase, and therefore has a place in the speedrunning dungeon meta, although you can argue that a 50% increase in attack speed for the whole party for a chunk of time is less dps than replacing the Mesmer outright with a more selfish but higher dps option, although I’ll leave this to actual data, and not an argument or anecdote. This elite is something that Mesmers provide that no one else can.

3. Certain dungeons can be heavily skipped with Portal, and logically speaking, why would a lot of people go through the effort of getting a consumable, when they can just bring a mesmer? Unless the player is a completionist, pugs a lot, or just hates Mesmers and wants to wail on their usefulness than most people will be happy with a mesmer in the party. Not that you and I are most people, so maybe we can do an opinion poll if you disagree with this.

4. The entire criteria for what is and what isn’t viable in the current meta is “Can it speed up our run?” If the answer is yes, then they are viable and useful. Mesmers can safely say yes. I know you personally staunchly hate the fact that Mesmers have only a few useful skills, and their playstyle you personally dislike but that isn’t the same as it not existing. Veil is useful, therefore mesmers have a place; you hating that Mesmers are a veilbot isn’t the same as them having no use, otherwise they wouldn’t even be a veilbot.

Aside from record runs, getting into this incessant nonsense that if a particular profession isn’t in the optimal five professions for record speed runs, NOT just regular speedruns, is meaningless. The vast majority of people who do dungeons and fractals, and wvw aren’t going to go into such a ridiculously perfectionist nitpicking set of actions like dictating what classes can and cannot join, again outside of record speedruns. Outside of pvp, the dungeoning meta (outside of record speedrunning) is an illusion, and is not necessary whatsoever to down content, and if a group doesn’t have a perfectionist goal in the run, like most pugs, the meta doesn’t exist; that is, you’ll see necros, bearbows, Rifle Warriors, Scepter Guardians with no reflects, and Mesmers using greatswords STILL finishing the content and getting their rewards.

Deathdance.2045:

Alasteir.7031:

ionix.9054:

Wow look how everyone is so quick to forgive. All they have to do is throw a virtual weapon skin at you all and your nerd giggling with glee.

They DID NOT solve this quickly. This was a low priority issue

You don’t owe them “thanks for fixing”. They continue to screw up. Fixing this is their job. You paid money for this game people. Maybe your expectation are much lower then mine are (actually, they obviously are)

You don’t need to thank fAilNET for communicating. After them stating publicly they were going to.

Seriously… go back and read some of these comments:
“Hey, all right! A solution that makes sense. Thanks, Anet.”
“Thanks for the reply; that was well handled.”
“Thank you Arenanet! Appreciate the hard work you’re doing!”

Appreciate the hard work? Are you kidding me? Someone else on a previous page apologized for his comments and praised them for his weapon skin.

I thought people finally saw through this companies BS. This is why ANET will NEVER change. It’s because of you all and the fact that your wooed with fluff. I hope you all know that the time and money you dump into this game is for RENTED play time. You are paying to rent your characters and play time from ANET. They are not yours

Considering that people like you only complained about this because of a skin, or other rewards that can be obtained elsewhere, I’m surprised you weren’t quick to forgive either. Anet is not going to take a minor inconvenience and treat it like compromised accounts. Your level of outrage is completely unreasonable, because nothing in the game (except a skin) has been locked for you. The worst that happened because of this is that the rewards were delayed. That’s it. We had to wait longer for SKINS. THAT’S IT! You’d think that you were confusing Anet with Monsanto or something.

This game is all about fluff, so naturally Anet’s “appeasement” over a minor bug with an extra 100 tickets is a very good thing, because that now means that thanks to this bug (silver lining) more people can now get the skins that were otherwise forbidden to them. Yet get the pitchforks Anet didn’t give me my skins!

this is basically another problem, i do WvW and want something unique or hard to achieve and by givving 100 extra tickets, there isnt any unique, there isnt any reason to fight for in any league, if everyone can get everything.

Whats the point of a league if the last one get the same as the first? dont call that a league and give tikets every week then, else go give another s*** as free gems dont taint the efort ppl do make in leaves for the shake of winning

In that respect, servers that scored higher get better rewards. If you placed 1st, you are the only people capable of getting 2 mistforged skins. Everyone else will only get one. So if you run an ele, people will know you were 1st by virtue of the fact that you are wielding a Mistforged Scepter, and Mistforged Dagger.

ionix.9054:

Wow look how everyone is so quick to forgive. All they have to do is throw a virtual weapon skin at you all and your nerd giggling with glee.

They DID NOT solve this quickly. This was a low priority issue

You don’t owe them “thanks for fixing”. They continue to screw up. Fixing this is their job. You paid money for this game people. Maybe your expectation are much lower then mine are (actually, they obviously are)

You don’t need to thank fAilNET for communicating. After them stating publicly they were going to.

Seriously… go back and read some of these comments:
“Hey, all right! A solution that makes sense. Thanks, Anet.”
“Thanks for the reply; that was well handled.”
“Thank you Arenanet! Appreciate the hard work you’re doing!”

Appreciate the hard work? Are you kidding me? Someone else on a previous page apologized for his comments and praised them for his weapon skin.

I thought people finally saw through this companies BS. This is why ANET will NEVER change. It’s because of you all and the fact that your wooed with fluff. I hope you all know that the time and money you dump into this game is for RENTED play time. You are paying to rent your characters and play time from ANET. They are not yours

Considering that people like you only complained about this because of a skin, or other rewards that can be obtained elsewhere, I’m surprised you weren’t quick to forgive either. Anet is not going to take a minor inconvenience and treat it like compromised accounts. Your level of outrage is completely unreasonable, because nothing in the game (except a skin) has been locked for you. The worst that happened because of this is that the rewards were delayed. That’s it. We had to wait longer for SKINS. THAT’S IT! You’d think that you were confusing Anet with Monsanto or something.

This game is all about fluff, so naturally Anet’s “appeasement” over a minor bug with an extra 100 tickets is a very good thing, because that now means that thanks to this bug (silver lining) more people can now get the skins that were otherwise forbidden to them. Yet get the pitchforks Anet didn’t give me my skins!

FearedbytheGods.8617:

Mank.2183:

Do you have nothing better to do? S1 rewards were terrible, move on already.

They were terrible, but that’s not the point, it’s the principle. Your statement is ignorant to that fact and assuming you got your S1 reward, it makes your statement annoying to.

And yes i got mine.

And in principle you should never get angry over something that is at best, a minor inconvenience. No one was hurt, no money lost, people didn’t lose their ability to get gems after purchasing them, no game modes were shut down, no mass crashes or hacks etc etc. This entire issue is literally a certain number of people waiting awhile just to get a skin, or rewards that can be obtained in other game modes in the meantime, and the level of outrage is utterly unreasonable. I see less people get upset over real problems than this, and it’s just astounding.

That makes neither the Diablo III launch nor this screwup any less so.
You’re acting as if such problems are the standard rather than the exception. I know anecdotally of dozens of games who launched either beta or proper without any such hiccups. You’re falsely conflating “normality” (as perceived by you) with “justifiability”. But I could tell you a million things that are “normal” but still not “justifiable”.
Additionally the 1-2+ week existence of a simple rewards bug is much harder to defend than difficulties in launching an ambitious, vast, decade-long project.

“Justifiable” is a subjective concept, and a person’s idea of what should and should not be tolerated can therefore be irrational, therefore it stands to reason that for something to be ‘unacceptable’ it needs some sort of standard. If the issue happens frequently, then it also stands to reason that it could simply be a lot more complicated than some would believe it to be, no?

Besides, who says we need to fix this exact bug? Just let it be dormant if it can’t be fixed timely and instead include a kind of override, like making all previous rewards/tickets junk and issue a second new set to (hopefully) all players.

My entire argument hinges upon the idea that the solutions require a thorough understanding of programming; I cannot say, and from what it seems, neither can you that your proposed solution is as simple as you make it seem. Programming isn’t magic, you can’t just make things happen. However they designed it, the lines of code used, optimization problems etc, can influence the effectiveness of your solution.

Once again an unneeded diversion from the central point and once again you already embed the counterpoint to your own argument within it. With your juxtaposing the loss of human life vs. loss of credit card information you already admit defeat towards your little “wit”. All is, of course, relative. This is a massive screwup in MMO space.

Nice of you to offhandedly suggest my argument is false with nothing to back it up. Let me explain it to you why my definition of a massive screw up is relevant, and rational.

1. The loss of human life is unethical, obviously, therefore the idea of a ‘massive screw up’ is not left to concepts such as overreacting, which is what you and everyone who says this is a massive screw up are guilty of.

2. The loss of credit card information can lead to financial disaster for people, which leads to a reduction in the quality of life. I shouldn’t have to point out the importance of money in a capitalist/mixed economy, nor do I need to explain why a loss of a lot of consumer credit card info would be a massive screw up.

3. These two references were supposed to give a standard to the idea of a ‘massive screw up’ so that the word “massive” wasn’t just some emotional word thrown around that doesn’t say anything about the issue, but instead shows more about the person’s emotional state. Simply put; I’m suggesting that you believing this issue to be a massive screw up to be evidence of you to be overreacting to this issue. Your life is not impacted in anyway whatsoever by this issue. You do not NEED the rewards; hence patience and calm can go a very long way in this particular scenario and can avoid a lot of unnecessary stress. For things that are REAL massive screw ups; this is not usually possible, without moral complacency, particularly because people are in fact, actually affected in a big way, in a bad way; hence the usage of the adjective ‘massive’. Otherwise ‘massive’ is just hyperbole.

I simply do not reckon such a bug takes more than a week to fix, not when they exactly do not have such major and long-lasting screwups often in their “Living World” programme. By far the fastest-fixed bugs, however, receives the Gemstore. Do you still try to rationalize the oh-so-delicate nature of these Gemstore bugs that requires even the “most skilled experts” to fix more than a week?
That is, I wouldn’t understand it if they actually deployed a number of devs to it rather than one single intern.
Why is it (compared from a bug:update ratio) WvW that suffers the most? This is a rhetorical question because the clear answer is lack of dedication and a lack of test servers.

You’d be surprised what a misplaced bracket can do to compiled code. Why do you think writers hire editors? If their expertise meant that they could not make very simple mistakes, editing would be an utterly worthless job. Programming is like writing, but I’m not aware of an equivalent editing practice in programming besides responding to bugs by proof-reading the code for problems like the aforementioned misplaced bracket.

Baratta.1083:

It is a simple video game….We walked on the moon in 1969..we have rovers on mars…the time for excuses is over. All any company wants if your DOLLARS…so keep licking the boot straps.

Since money is the agreed upon standard of value, they have to consider you to be special to care about anything else. If Anet cared about money only they would have made gw2 require a subfee, and would not allow in game currency transfer. Also, Scientists and Engineers working for NASA =/= programmers and artists working for a video game company. Two entirely different sets of skills. There is no we; we did not walk on the moon, we do not have rovers on mars. The very small minority of people who worked on those projects did; ‘we’ do nothing but steal credit when we did nothing. (I say this because it’s a personal pet peeve when people say ‘we’ on a major project in which was done by far less than 1% of the human population)

Jamais vu.5284:

We’re rolling into the second week of borked rewards for a large number of players, which is not the first time. Other ventures would see such a massive screwup as a much-needed wake-up call that maybe there is a systematic flaw underneath it.
Do you, ANet?

No, this is normal. Play any Blizzard game and you’ll frequently run into issues. Play any online game and you’ll find problems like this. Remember Diablo III release? Remember how every WoW patch would almost have an entire day of extended maintenance because Blizzard, after years of these issues, still run into “unforeseen cirumstances”?

Relax, a massive screwup is a recall that leads to deaths of innocent people, or a loss of consumer’s credit card information. This is normal. You know why? Because they’re human; one simple oversight in a simple line of code, in which fat finger syndrome accidentally causes a typo can have huge consequences in game bug wise. But given, giving a video game company some slack requires some understanding of programming and game design and just how difficult it can be. Even the most skilled expert will make mistakes in their field of expertise. You’re naive if you think otherwise, and add the fact that Anet’s intentions, and day to day activities are not known to the public nor demonstrable, any claims suggesting intentional faults are disingenuous.

Victory For Kittens.7806:

reapex.8546:

Victory For Kittens.7806:

Great, so no need to expect our rewards before next week, i dunno how you guys can do such bad work, rly you are disapointing, you found the “bug” 2 days ago but still nothing ? i’m really impressed by your wvw teams & your communication.

I don’t think this message will make them work any faster.

You are right but licking their kitten won’t work either tbh ..

These knights defending GW2 teams are “kids” if I may. Well they can’t have job. Else they’d know what deadline is and they’d understand why people are complaining (and why they CAN complain actually).

But it’s okay, let’s wait another week, let’s be kind and let them take all the time they want. I would like some kind of secretly developped new MMO to kill GW2 but there is no opponent yet .

Still they should care, people won’t wait for ever, i’m pretty sure this game will die if the 3rd year goes on same direction than the 2nde one (that was just copy pasta from 1st year ..).

Let’s wait and see, gogo GW2 team you are doing such amazing job keep on going, do not listen haters, take you time.

First off, you do not set their deadlines, their bosses do. Second off, this is reality; rarely are the people being complained at, are doing bad things intentionally. This shows a fundamental misunderstanding of human nature, and human intellect. You, me, Anet, and every human being on the planet are NOT gods; therefore the possibility of making mistakes will always remain. They made a mistake, they apologized, they said they found the issue, and are fixing it, and people like you STILL complain.

I’ll be blunt; there is no scientific evidence that complaining somehow magically makes programmers identify the problem and fix them faster. Do you sincerely believe an Anet employee is just sitting there reading the vitriol on the forums and just reading it verbatim to the programmers? But who knows, maybe I’m wrong. Maybe yelling at a mechanic while he’s doing his job because he doesn’t meet my personal standards will make him work better!

DanyxEleven.9162:

Alasteir.7031:

DanyxEleven.9162:

Spurnshadow.3678:

Pinkamena Diane Pie.8054:

So some people are saying give 500 tickets to everyone, problem solved.

Well then what was the point of the tournament???

To win, silly. You think we did this for a skin?

I did it for Ascended accessories so I could safely spend my laurels on other things. “Safely.”

Alasteir.7031:

I can guarantee you that they are not deliberately refusing to fix the issue, so it makes no sense to point out the obvious.

You mean like they didn’t deliberately refuse to fix season one’s reward? The majority of us are not upset about the wait, we’re upset because this happened last year and they didn’t fix it and that feels like what’s gonna happen this time, too.

Well unless I can get some background not entirely reliant on anecdotes on what happened in S1 then I cannot say, since the only thing I can recall base on my hiatus then was that the rewards were crap. Although it makes no sense for someone to deliberately avoid doing their job for no reason; if they did deliberately do nothing, then they must have had some semblance of a reason for it, other than the bipolar option of it entirely based on their mood.

That’s cute. Glad someone still has some faith in Anet. I can only hope you’re right.

It’s cute that I don’t blindly believe what people will say? If I’m interpreting that right. For the record, this isn’t about having faith in Anet, it is about actually have an education when it comes to business and that rarely are decisions made like if the people involved were bipolar. Usually they have some sort of calculated risk/reward analysis at the very least.

P.S: I interpreted your statement the way I did because rarely is the phrase “That’s cute” used online in a way that isn’t condescending, so I’m responding in kind.

DanyxEleven.9162:

Spurnshadow.3678:

Pinkamena Diane Pie.8054:

So some people are saying give 500 tickets to everyone, problem solved.

Well then what was the point of the tournament???

To win, silly. You think we did this for a skin?

I did it for Ascended accessories so I could safely spend my laurels on other things. “Safely.”

Alasteir.7031:

I can guarantee you that they are not deliberately refusing to fix the issue, so it makes no sense to point out the obvious.

You mean like they didn’t deliberately refuse to fix season one’s reward? The majority of us are not upset about the wait, we’re upset because this happened last year and they didn’t fix it and that feels like what’s gonna happen this time, too.

Well unless I can get some background not entirely reliant on anecdotes on what happened in S1 then I cannot say, since the only thing I can recall base on my hiatus then was that the rewards were crap. Although it makes no sense for someone to deliberately avoid doing their job for no reason; if they did deliberately do nothing, then they must have had some semblance of a reason for it, other than the bipolar option of it entirely based on their mood.

Bunter.3795:

oOParkerOo.5176:

To all the people who “know” how to fix it – you don’t have a clue!
Just sit tight and wait for professionals to take care of it, ok? STOP YOUR WHINING

We did wait, we waited the 9 weeks of the season, we waited the propagandized time before the season started, we have waited since Friday for them to fix this issue. They have not done so.

For those saying “you don’t know how hard it is” to find and fix the error. You’re right, we don’t but at the same time we did not call ourselves a company and release a game. We did not put ourselves forward as “professionals” and then fail to deliver to our customers.

ANet is a company, they have produced a product. We, their customers, have experienced dissatisfaction with this product. We have taken our time to post on these boards to express our dissatisfaction with their product. This is not “whining”. This is feedback. Sure it’s not the type of feedback Arenanet, or any company, wants but it is still feedback.

If you want to defend Arenanet and its practice of failure, you’re well within your rights to do so. You do not have the right to antagonize those of us who have politely expressed our displeasure with the lack of foresight Arenanet used in handling the rewards from season 2 especially in light of the fact that they have still failed to properly reward everyone who participated in season 1.

Actually he/she is well within their rights to antagonize you, given that it means criticism, which is what he/she is doing. Objecting to your displeasure is not against Anet’s Terms of Service.

First off, if you do not know how to fix it then you cannot possibly come up with a reasonable standard to base the delivery of fixes on. Secondly, you are hardly being polite. These forums are rarely politely critical of Anet; most of the time there are insults directed to them in some way shape or form. Politeness is often associated with a calm attitude and lacks an angry tone. Expressed your displeasure? Sure, but realize that for your displeasure to have any value whatsoever when it comes to bugfixes presupposes that they could fix the issue whenever they want. If you did an analysis of ANY professional company you’d realize that there are always problems with them in some way, and every company gets complaints in some way. It is impossible, for a company to produce perfection.

And when they fail to produce a perfect product, this is where complaints come in. A person will acknowledge that there can’t be a perfect product and certain problems won’t bother them, but when the issue affects them directly, that understanding that perfection is impossible goes completely out the window, and they now express similar emotions someone else has already expressed before them. Anet will make mistakes, and when these mistakes affect you, you’ll express your displeasure, but please realize that this is an issue with a bug, and it isn’t such a simple problem that expressing your displeasure will somehow motivate the programmers to do what they are already trying to do. I can guarantee you that they are not deliberately refusing to fix the issue, so it makes no sense to point out the obvious.

Sandrox.9524:

Jurica.1742:

Staff + Sw/Sw is the usual weapon set people use for lockdown builds. They are really, really hard to play, extreme risk, extreme reward.
I tried it out, tons of fun interrupting heals and various skills and seeing people rage/get damage from it). The one I used was the following:

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/mesmer/Guide-Vid-Mind-Crush-CS-Lockdown

Have a wonderful day, happy gaming!

Tried that sort of build with the power block new trait.Why not using the pistol OH?

You can if you want, but iSwordsman hits harder and all of its damage is immediate, and not spread out. The Pistol interrupt has a bigger cooldown than the Sword OH interrupt if I do recall, and in a Lockdown build the more dazes/stuns you have access to, the better. But go ahead and try it; better to see for yourself what works for you than to take the advice of others at face value.

Harper.4173:

I agree – Legendary Armor if implemented well could be a great success. What do i mean by that?

1.Build it off existing Ascended armor.
2.Give us decent skins – not like with Ascended.
3.Give us the option to turn off the flashy pew-pew effects that will most likely give us seizures.
4.Make the skins look good – I cannot stress this enough.
5.Make them have the same stats as ascended – we don’t need more power creep – i again cannot stress this enough. Changing stats is fine but it shouldn’t be numerically better.

Numbers 2 and 4 are weird requests since what constitutes decent or good looking varies from person to person. I personally loved the look of the Ascended Armor, of all three armor weights.

As for the topic at hand, it would definitely add another goal to strive for. Guild Wars 2 isn’t very theme parky when it comes to end game; that is, anet doesn’t tell you what you should be doing like mmos with raids being the main source of content, instead players are practically encouraged to set their own goals here, and Legendary Armor, which will obviously be of the same stat quality of Ascended Armor (why wouldn’kitten Since they only added ascended because Exotic was way too easy to get), will be yet something else one can choose to do. Although I agree that it should either be built off of ascended armor, or not require a precursor armor piece that relies on an rng drop. Maybe an epic quest (unique bosses that spawn in unique instances that require a lot of skill to beat?) to reforge some ancient equipment, I don’t know.

Pyroathiest.4168:

Alasteir.7031:

sirrealist.1360:

Alasteir.7031:

Iluth.6875:

Wyrden.4713:

its ground targetted, so u gotta move ur mouse on ur enemy…

^ dont get me wrong, not making fun of u, just in case u r an only keyboard user, u might not have noticed it

Ohh I see. Yes I have instant ground targeting enabled so I had no clue what was happening Thanks.

A player who doesn’t have ground targeting enabled? I-I think I’m going to cry! It makes me cringe whenever I see an Engi using nades and aiming with the ground circles with every ability.

Can you elaborate on this? I have the option where when I activate an AoE ability, I get the circle that I position using the mouse. That is “best” option for Mesmer, right? Just making sure I’m not missing out on some setting I should be using.

There is an option where the ability is used automatically on the area where your mouse is aimed at. No green circle. It saves a little bit of time. Once you get used to it, it is more efficient than targeting with the green circle.

It’s less precise though. For an engineer spamming grenades, you don’t need that precision. For something like precision blinks…you do.

The practice part bypasses that though. The mouse turns red to notify you on the area of affect. Sure, if you just start off using it, or if your mouse suddenly acts erratic (happens to me sometimes), after using it for long enough, you can easily get off precision blinks and the like simply due to “muscle memory” if anything. For me, the only time I have a hard time with precision is situational awareness overload; that is, too much is on my screen for me to properly aim.