Guild Wars 2

If I remember correctly, stats that your clone can inherit in full are toughness, precision, and condition damage. The other stats don’t transfer over well. On the other hand, phantasms get the added bonus of scaling well with power.. That being said, staff clones are really the only ones that can do decent damage with their WoC autoattack if you invest in some condition damage. To give a frame of reference, at 0 condition damage, staff clones can do burns around 328 dps and bleeds at 43 dps * 5 secs. At 1000 condition dmg, they can do burns and bleeds around 589 dps and 97 dps (485 dmg over 5 secs) respectively.

Hiki.9310:

The problems with condition mesmers can be summed up with these points.

Condition application – The condition application for this class is possibly one of the worst in the game when looking at the core weapon skills. The staff is our best condition weapon yet it’s auto attack comes with a one in three chance of failing (apply vulnerability), with a full set of staff clones and a target that never dodges or removes conditions it takes awhile to see more than 6 bleed stacks.

Ever since confusion was removed from the scepter auto attack in beta, the clones generated from this weapon would overwrite the more useful staff clones that apply conditions and the sword clones that stack vulnerability and remove boons. At times it feels like the scepter is working against the player.

Phantoms – The only phantom that applies conditions by default is the phantasmal mage and its damage and condition application falls behind that of every other weapon based phantom regardless of the build.

Build diversity – There is only one way to get semi reliable condition application and that is for the mesmer players to limit their build options to just using the rabid amulet and taking the trait sharper images. With the current weapon skills and traits, builds that use shaman, carrion and rampager’s suffer from a lack of condition application and damage.

Traits – The trait deceptive evasion is good for most mesmer builds but because of its tendency to summon clones on the nearest target both shatter and condition builds have problems with it. For condition mesmers our condition application comes from our illusions with clones summed from this trait attacking random AI it cuts out a large portion of our damage. As for shatter mesmers its not as bad since mind wrack is aoe but it still hurts to have illusions shatter away from the intended target. Another trait that’s causing problems is illusionary elasticity the bounce from this trait is still not working for illusions and if it worked would solve most of the problems with condition application by helping staff clones and the phantasmal mage.

I completely agree that two significant issues with the mesmer profession (especially for condition builds) are the failure of the illusionary elasticity trait to transfer to clones, and clones attacking the nearest enemy instead of the character’s target (also causing them to shatter on the wrong target.) I wish we had communication on whether these things are as designed or on the fix list for future patches.

Yeah, I agree with the above comments. Rather than repeat things here, I explain my personal preference for the sword in a condition build in the thread linked below (under the WEAPONS heading) if you wanna’ take a read:
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/mesmer/Guide-WvW-and-PvE-Condition-Build/first#post1366535

Chaos Archangel.5071:

Thanks for the tested info, Astus. That is good to know, I had been considering sliding towards GS for the bleeds but I didn’t wanna give up Chaos Armor/Storm.

-I heard the 1h sword also stacks bleeds really well, I was wondering if this was maybe superior due to the vulnerability debuff on each hit.

- What if you had 3 GS clones, but autoattacked with the staff?

- Did you have the Illusory Elasticity trait on when you tested the Staff?

No problem. The 1h sword clones can stack bleeds and vuln nicely and will stay in melee range of target (more effective shatters.) I use the 1h-sword as the alternate weapon to the staff in my condition build because it is a combo finisher, still carries some decent direct damage, and grants some ability to catch enemies. I personally think it is a great main-hand/duel-wield weapon no matter your build. However, I haven’t specifically paid attention to or tested the bleeds that the 1h sword clones stack. After testing the GS and Staff in a condition build, I would reckon that the 1h sword clones would probably be comparable (but not superior) to staff clones for applying condition damage (via bleeds only). I think that 1h sword clones can play a nice role in a condition build for that reason and because they are “in your face”/extremely annoying. However, I like to put out staff clones because of the buffs they give allies and because 2/3 of their hits are guaranteed to apply conditions (burns/bleeds) that scale with your condition damage. Sword clones do apply vuln (which is a static condition) and have the same chance to apply a bleed on critical, but their main attack doesn’t apply a condition that scales with your condition damage, nor do they buff allies.

All in all, whether I have the staff or 1h sword equipped, I don’t hesitate to keep pumping out clones via dodges because having clones that chase you, combined with clones hitting you from range, tends to fluster the enemy more than just having one or the other. And when you shatter, you have clones coming at you from everywhere.

As for having 3 GS clones out while autoattacking with staff – I would recommend against it. From testing, the GS and staff clones are just as effective by themselves; however, the staff clones have the added benefit of buffing allies and seem to make a real difference when your character enters the mix. Further, I don’t think the GS synergizes well with a condition build and having that equipped disables you from using what I consider superior weapons in a condition build – sword/scepter/torch/focus. On the other hand, what may be useful is having 3 staff clones out while using the GS in a power build, as they could grant you constant fury and a lot of stacks of might.

I did have Illusionary Elasticity traited when I did the testing. Keep in mind that this only comes into play when your character enters the mix, as staff clones currently don’t inherit this trait.

Phloww.1048:

I just wanted to say that I’m glad to see a build that I’ve been using! Instead of using rabid gear, I’ve been using knight’s for some power and instead use food to increase condition damage. Both yours and Seven Mirror’s guides are the closest to my playstyle.

Thank you!

No problem! Yeah, there are a few different ways that you can achieve similar stats. I have Knight’s armor too and sometimes use that along with food for condition damage. I think I usually end up getting a bit more power and a little less condition damage, but it’s still a solid combination in my opinion.

EllaPostrophe.2086:

Why are you using Sigil of Bloodlust instead of Sigil of Corruption? Bloodlust adds power, not condition damage.

Typo… I’ll fix that. Thanks for the heads up.

Thanks Lillith – glad you like it!

So, this is what I found with some quick testing of the GS vs Staff with a build around 1300 power, 1400 condition damage, 40% crit chance, and 32% critical dmg. No sigils (like earth) were used and I did the testing on the risen in Orr with about 10 rounds per Staff and GS for the categories below.

3 CLONES ATTACKING ONLY:
- Staff = 6-8 bleeds and 20 sec time until kill average
- GS = 8-10 bleeds and 20 sec time until kill average

ME + 3 CLONES ATTACKING with #1 SKILL ONLY:
- Staff = 10-12 bleeds and 10 sec time until kill average
- GS = 8-10 bleeds and 15 sec time until kill average

ME + 3 CLONES ATTACKING ALL OUT:
- Staff = 8-10 bleeds and 8 sec time until kill average
- Sword = 8-10 bleeds and 15 sec time until kill average

So, I think it can be argued that GS clones can stack more bleeds and kill things by themselves in the same amount of time as staff clones in a condition damage heavy build. However, the reason why the kill times are the same is likely because the staff clones also stack vuln and do burns.

When your character enters the mix, the numbers change significantly. You get about a 50% increase in kill time with the staff and a 25% increase with the GS. The likely reason for this is due to the synergy of condition damage with your staff via winds of chaos, the warlock that scales with # conditions on the target, the poison from chaos storm, and the boons from WoC bounces. Shatters remain equal in applying damage and confusion. On the other hand. the GS offers no other way to do condition damage other than bleeds from your illusions (and possibly you if you have sigil of Earth). Also, a condition build with lower power does not take advantage of the great power-scaling potential of the GS.

In conclusion, I’d say that the staff is superior to the GS in a condition build not only because of it’s increased damage, but also because chaos armor and chaos storm are priceless (especially in PvP/WvW).

Pyroatheist.9031:

Overall, the gs and staff clones will probably have similar damage, since the staff can also apply vuln. The major difference is the might and fury, but remember that mirror blade will give you significant might stacks very quickly.

True indeed – 6 stacks if you trait for Illusionary Elasticity, which is similar to what your winds of chaos will get you with you and clones in a 1v1 situation (6-10) after a little ramp up. Traited for the GS, you can also have similar clone summoning ability to phase retreat on the staff via mirror blade (6s). However, the problem with that is because of the way the trait lines are setup, going 20 into domination is not very conducive to a condition build.

I’m going to do a couple test runs for kicks to see what can reliably get more bleed stacks and kill faster in a 1v1 situation with a condition build – 3 GS or Staff clones. I just wanna see and I’ll post my findings soon.

Krispera.5087:

Kanto.1659:

Personally I keep the GS for its CC. I know, GS is not known for it, but yeah. iBerzerker to cripple, knockback to stop someone from stomping a team mate or push thieves out of their shadow refuge, and two illusions on demand.

You would be surprised by the bleed stacking speed from GS clones. It’s way faster than Staff clones. Since iZerker is a whirl animation, it gives you 3-4 bleed stack as well. IMO, it’s better than staff from bleed stacking and damage overall for CD mesmer. I still keep the staff though, for Phase Retreat and Chaos Storm.

I don’t deny that it might be good for bleeds; however, you and your staff clones can also apply burns – the most powerful up-front guaranteed condition damage in the game (I say guaranteed because 6 stacks of confusion is about 2.5x more powerful, but requires the target to do something – skill/ability/dodge.) Also, you need to consider the ridiculous stacks of might and constant fury you obtain from you and your staff bounces, which also increases your damage via power and condition damage/fury that is immediately inherited by your active clones. With access to immediate protection (chaos armor) and arguably the best duel support/debilitating tool in the game (chaos storm) aside, I would argue that the staff has a greater potential than the GS for damage in a condition build. But, I echo that a GS can definitely be good for stacking bleeds.

Khalif.2076:

blutstein.2468:

Playing the same build like the OP, but i suggest compounding power & Confusion cry in the Illusions line…
Scepter/Torch is also not the ideal weapon choice for a shatter-burst-build. Strongly sugest sword/pistol or sword/focus for mobility

@Astus: sounds interesting, can you link the build,pls? I’m working towards p/t/cd gear but have not much playtime this days snief

the reason i chose scepter/torch was for the confusion clone (torch 5) + stealth (torch 4).

as well as the scepter 3.

i will try out your combos and see

Yeah, I explain why I personally don’t use the scepter in my condition/confusion shatter build here: https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/mesmer/Guide-WvW-and-PvE-Condition-Build/first#post1353422

I instead go for the sword/focus as blutstein suggested.

Btw, I added a quick EDIT to the strategy in regards to opening up on and fighting groups.

Thanks man, and thanks again to all the other posters for their advice throughout the forums.

I recently posted a condition guide/build for the mesmer:
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/mesmer/Guide-WvW-and-PvE-Condition-Build/first#post1350944

In regards to finishing off enemies that run, this build gives you multiple utilities. What I find helpful for disabling/catching enemies are:
- blink
- focus #4 cripple/pull
- chaos storm (chance to chill)
- signet of domination stun (optional).

To finish them after disabling/catching them, sword #3 -> sword #3 -> sword #2 + plus quick roll and 2 clone shatter often works via damage alone or with confusion damage when they try to dodge or use another ability to flee.

I don’t have any much problem catching or finishing runners, except perhaps a stealth heavy thief (but who doesn’t?)

No problem at all – glad that someone can find it helpful.

SIGILS:
- Sigil of Corruption (Staff): Because condition damage transfers to your clones from sigil stacks, it is a must.
- Sigil of Earth (Staff alternate): Once you’ve got your 25 stacks, switch to this for a chance to apply more bleeds.
- Sigil of Fire (Sword): This AOE does very nice damage. Keep in mind that it’s not a burn so it isn’t increased by your condition damage. The reason why I don’t choose Sigil of Earth here is because you use the sword primarily for it’s blurred frenzy, which lasts about a second. The Sigil of Earth has a 2 second internal cooldown, so you’ll at most get 1 bleed. Hence, the Sigil of Fire is better for overall increased damage.
- Sigil of ? (Focus): It’s really up to you here, but keep in mind not to pick a sigil that has a cooldown (all “on weapon swap” ones do), because all sigils share the same cooldown. For example, sigil of energy would be nice for the added endurance, but its 5 second cooldown will likely negate your ability to proc AOE fire from your sword.

FOOD:
- Superior Sharpening Stone: To give the build a little bit more power, which IS noticeable. However, I sometimes play with the Superior Crystals to take me up to 1900 condition damage.
- -40% condition duration, +70 vitality(forget name): Essentially cutting down condition damage by 40%, which can be very nice during an encounter with another condition build, as mesmers are notorious for having terrible condition removal. Also, it decreases the time of effects/conditions like chills, weakness, vulnerability, etc.

That’s pretty much it. I’ve played all of the mesmer builds and like them all for various reasons, but my playstyle makes this one the most powerful and forgivable for me. I honestly don’t know the last time I lost a 1v1 to any class with this build. I will say, however, that the one class – I repeat one class – that I sometimes have trouble with is a DPS heavy mesmer. I think this stems from the fact that staff clones often get distracted by the closest target (enemy clones/phantasms included), disrupting their ability to apply focused shatters and conditions.

If anyone has any questions/comments/additions, feel free to post em. If you want to get into the argument about its effectiveness and viability, please try to refrain, as this guide is meant to help those looking to try a mesmer condition build, not state that it’s better than others.

WEAPONS:
As I’ve touched upon the staff so much already, I won’t mention it again here. Instead, I’ll discuss what secondary weapons I’ve found useful – which are sword/scepter and focus/torch.

- Sword: Despite this build’s lower power, blurred frenzy still does decent AOE direct damage, makes you invulnerable upon using it, and can proc bleeds or fire depending on the sigil you choose. Further, the sword #3 ability spawns another clone, allows you to catch and finish enemies who’ve decided to run away at lower health, and is a stun breaker. Your investment into the Dueling line allows you to easily pick up the Blade Training trait, increasing your precision with the sword and reducing its cooldowns so that you can get off sword #3 and #2 twice before switching back to the staff. Overall, this weapon gives the build added balance via the ability to do decent direct damage and I generally run with this instead of the scepter.

- Scepter: I use this sometimes, but the problem with it is that only the #3 ability is of real benefit with its confusion stacks and decent damage, but even this is slow, easily interrupted, and can only be cast once before switching back to the staff. Opening with #3 on an unexpecting opponent is devastating, but that doesn’t happen too often. In 1v1, it’s great, but when managing multiple opponents, I find it lackluster. For example, in 1v2 situations, you will often get interrupted or hit for serious damage while you are trying to stay within 900 range of your target. You are then stuck with it for 10 seconds, doing feeble damage with scepter #1. I will say that the block can be nice and can do decent damage if you land one. It can also be useful for harassing towers in WvW as scepter #1 will create clones on every 3rd shot if you have line of sight, which you can then shatter. Further, it will do more ranged direct damage to oil pots/cannons than your staff, but if an enemy is manning one of those, you want to use the staff because its bounces can hit the enemy and apply conditions.

- Focus: Probably the most underrated weapon IMHO. The swiftness boon is an obvious nice to have given the mesmer’s notorious lack of ability to get it. However, its ability to control fights is often overlooked. From pulling enemies off walls/bridges/higher ground/away from you in WvW, to giving you 2x retalliation when you sword #3 twice through it, it’s invaluable. As for the iWarden, I think it gets a bad wrap because people tend to focus on its lack of movement and and don’t know about its other abilities. Firstly, it is another control mechanism as most players in WvW know by now to stay far away from that thing and you can push people back by casting it. Secondly, it negates projectiles if you are close to it while it’s attacking (and reflects them if traited for it in Inspiration.) Thirdly, it’s a great finisher when facing more than one opponent – cast it on a downed guy, move on to the next target, and it will usually finish the downed guy while you continue fighting. Finally, it’s a whirl combo finisher. This last point means that if you cast it and then immediately switch to your staff and drop chaos storm on it, it shoots out AOE confusion bolts, which is a very powerful tool with this build. Do this combo on an enemy oil pot and watch the defenders on the wall scatter.

- Torch: I use this sometimes and it can be an extremely useful weapon in a condition build, giving you added stealth and a phantasm that stacks on confusion. However, I find the overall utility of the focus better and have that equipped 99% of the time.

UTILITIES/ELITE:
These take advantage of the mesmer’s core design of deception and evasion. They are useful for both getting away and deceiving the opponent during a fight.

- Blink: Not only good for creating or closing distance, but extremely sneaky if used to blink behind the opponent when they are facing/charging you
- Decoy: Excellent tool during a fight as any stealth causes the opponent to drop you as a target. Further, if you dodge during stealth, clones will spawn, leaving the enemy to think you came out of stealth. When the stealth wears off, stand still and pretend you’re a clone while you and you’re clones apply burns/bleeds.
- Null Field / Signet of Domination / Portal: This slot depends on the situation. Null field is nice for condition removal and a chaos armor combo with phase retreat. Signet of Domination is useful for added condition damage and stun. Portal is nice for various situations in WvW or when players fall somewhere debilitating in PvE.
- Mass Invisibility: Great in both 1v1 and group situations. In a 1v1 situation, it can either deceive the opponent or give you time to regroup if needed. In group situations, every enemy looses a target that goes stealth and everyone in stealth essentially gets a “free attack”. Use this only when you think you can pull it off as it is easily interrupted and takes a good second to cast. On another note, I only use time warp in PvE and on golems (WvW) as I find mass invisibility every 90 seconds much more debilitating to the enemy rather than a quickness AOE field which enemies can retreat from. Plus, it has a long cooldown..

HEAL:
Ether feast, ether feast, ether feast. Even with close to no healing power, this heal is a beast if you have a few clones out. And, even if you are shattering a lot, your ability to get clones out quickly means that you should never really have to do a heal with less than two active clones. A quick tip for this – you have a short window to heal with the added bonus from clones even after you cast a shatter. This means that if you shatter and then realize your health is low, don’t be afraid to cast ether feast, as the animation +/- gap closing of the clones gives you a second or two to still enjoy the added heal bonus of active illusions.

GEAR:
The chosen gear provides a lot of additional condition damage, while making up for some of the weaker stats of the build via trinkets. I’ve tried countless combinations and this is what I’ve found to work best. Specifically, I have found that going all precision/toughness/condition damage is less effective because sometimes you need that little bit of extra power (breaking siege, small DD burst via sword and mind wrack, etc.) Essentially, every piece of gear should give you condition damage, and it’s up to you what other combinations you would like.

- Armor: Exotic 6 pieces of Khilbron (condition main, toughness/precision minor)
- Rings: Ascended (condition main, toughness/precision minor)
- Earrings: Exotic (condition main, power/vitality minor)
- Amulet: Exotic (condition main, power/vitality minor)
- Back: Ascended (condition main, toughness/precision minor)
- Weapons: Exotic (condition main, toughness/precision minor)
- Runes: Divinity (one could go with the Runes of Undead, which I’ve tried, but I like the 60 points added to all traits for more balance. Specifically, the added 12 points to crit damage provides a nice “umph” to your critical hits and makes up some for the low direct damage).

As an aside, the reason why Divinity runes are superior to other gear that spreads out stats (rings, amulets, earrings) is because it actually adds significantly more points to your raw total stat pool, whereas trinkets and the such simply spread out the numbers compared to their counterparts. A set of most runes will give you somewhere around a total of 240 points added to you stats + a special effect. 6 Divinity runes gives you 60 points in 6 areas (360 total points) + 12% more critical damage. That is a pretty significant difference IMO, and well worth it.

TRAITS:
0 / 20 / 25 / 0 / 25
The above point allocation is debatable, and I personally move 5 points here and there depending on how I feel. Nevertheless, I always keep these 3 trait lines because of their great synergy in this build. Basically, the Dueling lines allows clones to inflict bleeds (condition damage) on critical and allows for higher staff clone output (deceptive evasion). The Chaos line gives you significant survivability via added toughness, its passive traits, reduced cooldown on staff (more clones plus increased chaos armor uptime), and increased boon duration (specifically for protection and aegis). Further, 25 points in the chaos line adds 5% of your toughness to condition damage. Finally, the Illusion line – just look at what it gives you – it’s a no brainer and I don’t need to explain it here. However, I will mention why I don’t put 30 points into it below.

Dueling (20):
- Summary: Gives you and your clones greater precision, giving more chance to apply bleeds (clones via sharper images and you via sigil of earth)
- Critical Infusion (Passive): Gives you vigor and keeps your endurance up to create more clones on dodge (see below)
- Sharper Images (Passive): Illusions inflict bleeds on critical hits – no brainer with condition build
- Blade Training (Adept): I’ll explain why I use the sword in this relatively low power build later
- Deceptive Evasion (Master): Create clones on dodge – no brainer in a shatter or condition build – more clones = more condition damage and more confusion with shatters.

Chaos (25):
- Summary: Gives you AND YOUR CLONES more toughness, making everything about you harder to kill.
- Metaphysical Rejuvenation (Passive): Really not all that helpful considering this build has close to 0 healing power.
- Illusionary Membrane (Passive): Excellent passive trait that allows you to survive almost any unforeseen attack (thieves.)
- Chaotic Transference (Passive): One of the reasons I don’t go 30 into Illusions. With around 1800 toughness in this build, this trait gives you 90 additional condition damage, as opposed to 50 more with an additional 5 points in Illusions. Hence, putting 25 points in Chaos instead of 30 in Illusions gives you an additional 50 toughness and 40 more condition damage.
- ???? (Adept): Pretty much all of these traits are good. Personally, I mostly run with Illusionary Defense, as I keep my clones up often enough to notice its benefits.
- Chaotic Dampening (Master): Core to the build. Having phase retreat roughly every 5 secs allows for increased clone output, attack evasion, and ability to get combo-armors from etheral fields. The reduced cooldown on chaos storm allows you to place this seriously debilitating AOE more often, while giving you and your allies some amazing defensive boons (it’s one of the strongest mesmer skills in my opinion.)

Illusions (25):
- Summary: Your best friend – more condition damage, increased shatter recharge rate, increased confusion duration, confusion and might upon shatters, and added staff bounces.
- Illusionists Celerity (Passive): Useful if you use mirror images
- Illusionary Retribution (Passive): Core of build – shattering clones applies confusion.
- Shattered Strength (Passive): Additional condition damage and temporarily makes up for low power via might stacks.
- Master of Misdirection (Adept): Gives a very noticeable 33% increased duration to confusion you apply.
- Illusionary Elasticity (Master): Your staff (not clones) winds of chaos gets an additional bounce. I believe clones are “supposed” to inherit this trait, which would be very nice.

Now to address what most people are thinking – why not 30 points in Illusions for “added condition damage” and Illusionary Persona. Well, I addressed the fallacy of added condition damage above. In regards to Illusionary Persona, I’ve tried it many times and don’t find it all that useful in this build because shattering is situational and 2 more stacks of confusion is not really needed with the amount of damage that just a few confusion stacks can do. In a DPS heavy shatter build, it would be essential, but in a condition build, I’d rather have the added 40 points of condition damage and additional toughness, as chaos would be the only line you could remove 5 points from.

It’s been awhile since I’ve seen someone post a mesmer condition build, so I decided to write up a guide. I’m obviously not the first to come up with such a build, and thank you to the many other posts that allowed me to hone this build. This guide is not meant to start an argument of what is better – a DPS or condition build – as I think both are strong given the right play style. Instead, it’s to summarize how to build and play a condition mesmer.

SUMMARY:
This build focuses on applying burns, bleeds, and confusion to your enemy by mostly using your staff, staff clones, shatters, and ability to get out a constant stream of clones. It is sometimes argued that condition damage is inferior to direct damage, which may be the case with some classes, but the mesmer tool belt allows for a condition build that is very strong and survivable.

QUICK BREAKDOWN (with food and stacks):
Power: 1319
Precision: 1699 (41% crit chance)
Toughness: 1799 w/ staff (2719 armor)
Vitality: 1235 (18,272 health)
Condition Damage: 1780 (773 dps burns, 132 dps bleeds, 397 dmg per stack of confusion and 2,382 dmg with 6)
Critical Damage: 32

STRATEGY:
In a nutshell, your strategy should revolve around keeping up staff clones and well-timed shatters to apply confusion. It’s important to realize that your clones inherit the condition damage you have (minus runes, but plus stacks for sigils.) This means that with an inheritable condition damage around 1700, your clones can do burns around 750 dps and bleeds around 130 dps with two-thirds of their winds of chaos casts (the other 1/3 applies vulnerability). In addition, all winds of chaos hits bounce back to allies, including those from your clones, giving might or fury to you and your allies.

Laying out your clones is similar to most shatter builds that use the staff. Because staff clones generally stay in one spot, it’s best to lay them near the target in case you have an immediately good opportunity to shatter. When approaching a target, I like to generally do the following – cast chaos storm on target, roll into the chaos storm (pick up a few boons + create 1st clone), phase retreat out after a few seconds (get chaos armor from ethereal field combo + create distance + create 2nd clone), then potentially roll to the left or right to create a “triangle” of clones around the target. If the target remains in that “triangle”, I will use a shatter (remember that Cry of Frustration can apply up to 6 stacks, while the others apply up to 3 stacks), putting confusion on him/her. If not, I will likely leave them up and let them work their burns/bleeds, only shattering once I’ve lured the target into a vicinity surrounded by my clones. Of course, it’s not always as cut and dry as this because you’re clones will die, move, etc., but it’s important to realize that one should not just spam shatters with this build. Sending clones to chase the target will stop them from casting winds of chaos and your shatters will hit less frequently if not done when your target is “cornered” by clones.

EDIT: While fighting more than one opponent, I have a tendency to shatter A LOT more for a few reasons. First, the added chaos makes it harder for opponents to recognize clones running at them. Second, the shatter AOE effect is more likely to apply confusion to someone, even if it’s not my intended target. Third, in this situation, clones are more likely to be killed by crossfire, so it’s better to try and apply confusion rather than have them die. Overall, applying AOE confusion to an enemy group is much more detrimental than focusing on a target with your clone’s winds of chaos. If an enemy group is huddled together, I’ll charge in with an approach similar to above and drop 3 clones + cast a no-hesitation Cry of Frustration. More often than not, they will melt themselves, regardless of their toughness or health pool, as they try to attack you +/- the rest of your group. For the remainder of the fight, I’ll generally stay somewhat close and continually spam clones + apply shatter AOE confusion (this is doable because of your survivability discussed more in depth below.) But, if things start to get rough – I’ll blink, decoy, or distort to create some distance and heal up. Wash, rinse, repeat.

I will outline the strategy and options for secondary weapons later.

Sure, I’ll start a new post/guide because people have been asking recently…

I run a condition, optional shatter confusion build in WvW and have found it very strong. I do 0/20/25/0/25 usually and have mostly precision/toughness/condition damage gear. I don’t find it passive by any means as my clones and I can deal 800 dps burns and massive bleeds. With about 1300-1400 in power from gear, you can get nice DD bursts with the sword #2 ability as it does decent damage even with lower power, and your mind wrack can do decent damage with crits + the added bonus of 3 stacks of confusion, causing 1200 dmg per skill use (1800 condition damage w/ stacks.) Cry of frustration is the kicker and if you can get six stacks on and enemy, it’ll do 2400 dmg per skill use. In 1v1 situations, I haven’t lost to any profession in I don’t know how long. In group settings, you’re confusion not only melts enemies through the shatter AOE effect, but it also controls the smart ones, who notice the confusion and either must clear it or wait 3-5 seconds to do anything. While they do that, put out 3 more staff clones to keep those burns/bleeds up and continually give boons to allies. When appropriate, you can sword #3 in + sword #2 for a finisher or good burst and decoy/blink out if you need to create distance. If the enemy plays through your confusion, they will die almost instantly. Traited correctly, you can pretty much keep confusion constantly on the target.

Slow casting classes haven’t been a problem for me, because the damage from my staff clones and confusion is so great. Having high toughness (around 1800) makes you very survivable and allows you to survive unforeseen attacks. The staff also allows you to put up chaos armor in several ways and phase retreat away in such situations. If a thief keeps on you, they get lots of conditions and give you boons with each hit on your chaos armor.

The only class, I repeat – only class – I have trouble with is well-played DPS heavy mesmers. This mostly stems from the fact that currently, you’re clones often get distracted by the closest enemy (or clone) and do not focus on the original target. This disrupts a focused shatter and condition damage that your staff clones could be doing to the original target.

I’ve done every mesmer build and IMHO, this is the strongest and most forgivable one to play. There is no other condition or skill that I think can deal as much damage in such a short time period as confusion. Elementalists and thieves are the most fun, as they’ll often spam so many skills in such a short time period that they are dead before your confusion bubbles can even pop up on the screen.

Lothial.7859:

Birdo.1768:

Lol this thread is so empty other mathes are already on 5 pages lol
Cmon ppl where is the competitive forum warriors? Surely BP in the lead doesn’t make everyone a sad panda? No winner is decided until the last hour! Last round BP came back then lost by a hair to AR, was a great match. I know NSP can pull out great numbers to defend(I remember from the failed golem rush recently lol) and we know AR can walk all over NA primetime. Get it into gear ppl!

LOL This match up is like an old married couple at this point we’ve run out of stuff to say to each other.

BP, stop leaving the toilet seat up after using the bathroom…

Good duel ele from PAXA. Thank you bystanders for letting it finish.

Hammerhorn.1347:

Dark Aidget.3879:

Heck of a fight at BP’s bay tonight. That was epic. Proud of my Borlis.

Ya great job that was a EPIC fight very fun even though we didnt get your lord , we held that tower for 3hrs against every attack you guys could have thought to thrown at us over at Bluebriar. You get to keep bay tonight , but my 8 man team got your Garrison last night =) one blue dot in the middle of the map hahahaha you have no idea the hell we went through to swim them golems there on a completely green map.

Yeah, hats off to you guys for putting up such a resilient defense. I sat in our spawn camp for about 30 minutes staring at my computer screen after it had all cooled down, trying to motivate myself to do something else, but couldn’t. Great stuff BP.

For all those claiming AR doesn’t attack BP, etc., see the attached screenshot from 1/22/2013. Get real and stop whining.

So far, all of our attempts to post about some shady happenings at AR’s Hills keep have been suppressed. This is the second time we’ve seen this happen to the Hill’s keep. Once on another BL, and this time with the a fully upgraded keep on our BL. 30+ people were seemingly able to make it into the lord room without breaking a wall or door. I’m keeping an open mind here and not making any extreme accusations, as it’s possible that we could have missed something. However, it seems pretty unlikely that we did. If someone has an explanation, can you please post it as to cool off some of the rumors flying around?

Jscull.2514:

Dovgan, I actually gave credit to your ranger the other night in vent. Said you last longer than most, even solo. But we are here to kill. PAXA is driven by # of kills /night, that’s the only thing that matters to us. If you are red and in our visual, you are #10,634 for me, even up to 12,001 for two of our guys.

The only player, Hammerhorn, that has been relatively impressive from VS has been the black robed mesmer. The verdict isn’t out for the rest of the guild, simply just a mob of mindless zergers (aka burger-eaters).

I’m blushing. You guys have good 4-5 man teams and have taken me down pretty quickly when I’ve approached ya’ll while roaming or what not. It’d be cool if we can make this fight club thing happen and we could duel, as it seems most of our meetings have been outbalanced from either end. I also enjoy the rivalry as long as it doesn’t turn into anything childish.

Dark Aidget.3879:

First off, I want to say that I’m truly excited to see the scores this close. It’s been ages since we played a match where the end of the week wasn’t predicted by the end of the reset. Since we hit tier 5, it’s either been us ROFLstomping SF or HOD, or us being ROFLstomped by Ehmry, Dragonbrand, and Maguuma. This is the first competitive match up we’ve had in forever. The end of the week will actually depend on how well we fight. That is a happy change.

I couldn’t agree with you more and it’s good to finally see this tier seemingly balanced after 3 or so weeks of lopsided wins from various servers.

On another note, is there any interest in having a fight club event this Thursday? It was a lot of fun when we did it with Kaineng and VS would be willing to set things up on the southern tip of a server’s borderlands…

SHAKA ZULU.3128:

Astus.3508:

snip

My cries of anguish every time I realized I had to fight “THAT KITTEN MESMER” again could be heard around the world. You are seriously awesome; your whole guild is extremely impressive.

Thanks for the compliment Shaka… If you were the guardian I fought a few times, you weren’t an easy fight either. You forced me to be extremely patient with all of your well timed defense/offense and I thought you might of had me that last fight.

Nuzt.7894:

WvW will continue to happen, FC’s are not everyones cup of tea. If I’m understanding, your saying a large group of AR attacked their borderlands ? Nothing wrong with that, just because a bunch of people decide to have a FC doesn’t mean everyone should put their agenda on hold because of it, some people just want to WvW and not FC. If thats not what your saying, could you be more clear as to what you mean by a large group of AR attacking your side ?

Before NSP attacked an outmanned Kaineng and we ran over to help, a large group of AR (more than 20) jumped Kaineng on their side of the fight club. On the AR side, we simply saw a sea of green attacking a sea of red.

If you didn’t know, the FC occurred at the very southern tip of the Kaineng map, with the closest objective being a camp that was barely visible. That being said, the people there were participating in something not pertaining to any WvW objective. Any zerg that found their way over there did so not with the intent of what I consider “WvW” as you say, but to be dbs in a cowardly attempt to jump an opponent in a publicly announced, all-inclusive event. Even if you didn’t know about it, anyone could see that the two servers were standing in two seperate lines, on different sides, with mixed green/red name tags up on the hill, with only 2-4 people fighting in the middle.

I hope you don’t mean to make the argument that someone’s idea of WvW is crashing such an event that is far removed from any objectives that would actually get your server points. On the contrary, if you like just killing people, you should have joined in on the FC. If anything,, those players on AR and NSP who were not participating in FC should have been trying to take objectives while much of Kaineng was at FC.

Thank you to all who organized the FC event – that was the most fun I’ve had all week. I have a lot of respect for the leaders and players of Kaineng for organizing something like that. It was a great way to lighten things up and clear the air after a week of fighting. Everyone there showed a lot of class and it was awesome stuff. It’s a shame that some people saw it as an opportunity to jump the enemy and ruin the one thing this week that brought the community together and participate in some fair, good-hearted fights.

On another note, I’m not exactly sure what lead to the large group of AR attacking your side, but considering that all of us there (Kaineng and AR alike) were having a good time and not taking objectives or killing eachother, I don’t understand why you guys were the target of something seemingly provoked elsewhere on the map. Again, I don’t know who started what, but it felt like that was a db move on AR’s part. I generally don’t like to speak for a group of people such as the guild I’m in, but we were pretty disappointed and angry with the crew that attacked you. That is why we sat down in line and did not participate in the fight.

Also, I was the staff sylvari mesmer who pretty much forgot to bow after every fight. That wasn’t out of disrespect by any means, but instead because of forgetfulness and/or trying to get far away so that my clones would disappear without having to shatter. Sorrry bout that.

I agree with all of the replies to my post and I appreciate the civility this thread has maintained. I wasn’t blaming a server as a whole and that’s why I said it could just be a few tainting the reputation of the masses. As Hexin pointed out, I wanted to call out what I’ve seen and point out that no server or guild is innocent in my experience. There have been some posts saying “we don’t do that,” and I’m calling shenanigans. Not boasting in forums does not negate actions in-game, and saying “none of us do this or that” is the same as saying “all of you do this or that.” Every server and guild has their trolls, and I think we are all in agreement to avoid extreme statements of blame or denial.

@Shaka – you are right, you have every right to post whatever you want. You also have the right to play the game in whatever matter you find fun. I don’t want to tread on either of those things and I’ll drop it.

In regards to the accusations and denial of arrogance, I would just say that actions speak louder than words. Dancing upon or lying down naked next to your defeated opponent, after you’ve defeated them with a massive force does show a bit of arrogance. Yeah, I get it, it’s a video game, grow up and deal with the taunting, etc. I’m just saying that this is a form of arrogance that I’ve seen. As always, it may just be a few tainting the reputation of the masses, and although there has not been much written boasting in the forums, I’m pointing out that in-game arrogance is just the same. Further, posting videos of your victories falls within this same realm of “passive-agressive arrogance.” Do or write what you will – people shouldn’t let others’ actions within a video game or words within a forum bother them – but, acting one way and speaking in an other comes off as conniving.

I understand what Kaineng is doing, and I respect the discipline and organization you have, but such an unbalance does ruin the experience for us smaller servers. Many of us don’t want to treat this like a job – training, being on-call, etc. – and that is why we play in a lower tier. As I said in my previous post, Kaineng nor the guilds who transferred there are to be faulted for their dominance, because they have a vision and they are working very hard to achieve it. But, in the future, please remember how your actions may affect the experience of all your fellow players, friend or foe. Any given foe could have just as easily been your ally if they had chosen your server, and in the end, we are all friends in this game and should work together to enhance the overall collective experience. Your opponent in WvW is one of your strongest allies in keeping this game moving forward. Although no one could have predicted the level of discontent that such an outbalanced matchup could bring, I think it’s clear now that it hurts the game in the long-run at the short-term benefit of a few. We all want to have a good time by defeating each other and winning the matchup. But, having fun becomes difficult when there is such an unbalance. Large guilds, please remember this the next time you look to raise a server from the bottom tier.

I’d say that any reference to history, or a movie, is a moot point as this is a video game where characters don’t die, they immediately respawn and rejoin the battle. That being said, 50 vs 10 may stay at 50 vs 10, despite the 10 possibly holding of the 50 for some time. Eventually, the larger numbers will generally win, and can do so by brute force and the ability to respawn, carry more supplies, put down more seige, hold key points on the ground, etc. Although having more people doesn’t translate into less skilled players, it does give a server more wiggle room to make mistakes and dismiss tactics if they desire, as they can defend siege even if placed in the least of strategic spots.

I don’t think morale is really the issue here as much as it is a recognition of reality. I don’t think people want to waste gold on a battle that realistically can’t be won. Kaineng is a huge force and they shouldn’t be faulted for that. However, because this is a video game with features such as respawning, time zone coverage, and culling, it makes having more players the most powerful advantage. Careful strategy and tactics can only take you so far in this scenario. Servers at this tier simply cannot match the coverage that Kaineng has at this point. To make the argument that such an outbalanced WvW player base can be consistently countered with strategy is silly. Perhaps it’d be true if when your character died, they were out of the fight for a few hours, but that’s not the case. So, in the end, I think that the outmanned servers aren’t having fun (I’m not) playing Kaineng, so we are letting Kaineng pass, rather than bang our heads against a wall.

As a side note, I like this tier for what it is and the great battles we’ve consistently had against evenly matched servers such as NSP. If AR were to get massive guild transfers and started steam-rolling people, I would probably transfer elsewhere. I personally don’t find being on either side of unbalanced fight very fun. Anyways, I wish the best of luck to Kaineng and I hope you guys do well in the higher tiers. It is nice to see the server I started on climbing the ranks.

Maybe we’ve had different experiences, have you tried a condition build before? I played the berserker build at lvl 80 for about 2 months before I tried a condition build and I thought it was good too. Perhaps it is my playstyle, but I like the condition build better and I find it stronger and more versatile. I do admit it is more challenging to obtain the right equipment for it and I had to do the 15 points here and 25 there kind of thing. Unfortunately, you can’t craft precision/toughness/condition stuff and items don’t really exist that pair precision/vitality without giving you another stat that you don’t need in the build, like power. That being said, if the perfect combinations did exist, I think condition builds might be too OP.

Anyways, I wanted to write something that was quantifiable because I hadn’t really seen it in the forums before. In regards to dungeons and lvl 12 fractals, the build does very well and I can take down NPCs without difficulty because clones are nice to have up, but aren’t necessary. They can also be very effective when traited for conditions/boons on shatter in situations where you know they’ll get killed quickly. All in all, I like to make the most use out of clones, which you can pump out every couple of seconds via dodge/staff #2 and in a condition build, do incredible damage that is not negated by armor.

I was reading this thread and others and I just wanted to state that a condition mesmer is strong in PvE. With a lvl 80 mesmer with all exotics, condition damage around 1300, a critical chance around 40%, an extra bounce for winds of chaos, clones causing bleeds on critical hits, and you + 2 clones out, your bleed stacking essentially works out to 6 chances/sec (from 2 bounces from winds of chaos per you/illusions) at 33% probability (randomness of winds of chaos) + 4 chances/sec at 40% (clones critting) + 2 chance/sec at 24% (you critting with sigil of earth is .40*.60 = .24) to apply bleeds of 110 dmg per tick. Simplifying things and averaging the probabilities during WoC spamming, you have roughly 12 chances/sec at 33% probability to apply a bleed, working out to an average of 4 bleeds added per second. As they last for 5 seconds, by the 5th second in this scenario, you’ve reached you’re average stack of 20 bleeds. 20 bleeds * 110 dmg equates to 2200 dmg per second that is NOT negated by any armor. Without outlining any more math, at the 10th second in this scenario you have will have applied roughly 15,400k dmg from bleeds alone. And, we haven’t even factored in the burns you’re doing at 663 damage when you’re not applying bleeds (likely 3 over 10 second), the increased damage from vulnerability (also 3 likely in 10 seconds), the increased damage from the might/fury you get from WoC bounces, a 3rd staff clone, the base weapon damgage, a chaos storm, and the additional condition damage you can add to yourself by having runes of the undead (condition damage not applied to clones).

Obviously, in reality, WoC takes more than a second to complete one cast + its bounces, bounces get lost, your clones will get killed, you’ll have to spawn new ones, you’ll have to evade attacks, etc., etc., meaning that you can never really make things as simple as I just did, but, my point is that a condition build is powerful. Yeah, confusion might not be great in PvE (it’s a no-brainer in WvW), but mesmers have access to other conditions and boons that make them a beast if outfitted to do condition damage. You can even pop up clones to fight off lesser npcs while you handle a vet or something and often times the clones can take them down on their own before dying. Three clones working by themselves for 10 secs can actually stack more bleeds and do more damage than the scenario above because their 40% chance of applying a bleed on a crit is not brought down by factoring in your inferior ability to apply bleeds on crits.

I’ve had this same problem off and on and I’ve done everything from port forwarding to checking my open ports with PPPortChecker to reserving a specific DHCP address (in router settings) for my computer to turning of anything that could be blocking packets, which hasn’t helped. However, I recently decided to immediately check my router’s logs when I have the problem. It turns out that every time I loose a connection, my router (Apple Airport) is resolving a connection with my Android phone (Galaxy S3.)Then, I started to put two and two together and realized that I don’t think I have the problem when my phone is not constantly trying to connect to my home wireless (this also explains why I don’t have this problem on other networks.) After hours of tinkering with network settings, this was was last thing I expected to be the cause of the issue. Nevertheless, with my phone’s wireless off, I’m currently playing without dropped connections. I will post an update if the problem comes back, but I decided to post my insight considering a phone seems to me an unlikely culprit. Regardless, when you experience a dropped connection, check your router’s logs and see what is happening – it could be any device causing intermittent network disruptions.