That being said Arena net did change the match up a little Yesterday in that they took 1 of the servers away from SoS. My concern is that if they could do that 1 week before reset why couldn’t they give DB that server being as we are sourly hurting for #’s right now i our current match up.
This proves you aren’t paying attention more than anything. When the relinking was last done (Aug 26th), DB was in T1 and therefore did not get a linked server. They’ve also lost population since that time, causing them to drop through the tiers over time. This wasn’t Anet’s fault.
Also, the only thing that happened this past Friday was SoS rolled a T4 match-up. No one took a server away from anyone. SoS has been linked with IoJ and only IoJ since Aug 26th. HoD moved up to T3 for this week and took the other two servers linked with it along for the ride. Anet didn’t change anything on Friday, RNG did.
My issue is with the systems in place that allowed such a swing that a server gets destroyed.
You want people to quit your game? Throw a mid class server a huge carrot to 1st place and then curb stomp them to 10th place.
That’s a mother kitten 9 place swing, complete and utter insanity
The system before server linkings wasn’t any kinder. Just server death tended to be slower while glicko did its’ damage. I’ve watched servers suffer and die (including my own)…just took longer to hit bottom in those days.
All this shows me is that the game as it sits right now is not working. Glicko is too slow to adjust. 1 up 1 down…all that would do is show that linkings have failed in creating any sense of balance potentially both within a tier and between tiers. The constant fudging of ratings to make up for the imbalance in linkings and the constant bandwagoning of players just shows that a entire new system is needed because what is currently in place does not and will not work.
And all these arguments about who can and can’t compete with each other are no longer valid in 2 weeks when everything is relinked and we start this ridiculous cycle all over again.
Either go in WvW (EBG or SoS BL best places) and ask there or join SoS forums at sosgw2.net and ask there. Those are the best places to get that kind of information Plenty of people there willing to help I’m sure.
First, apologies already to T4 for the server rotation that will be happening soon. Looks like T4 will be just another tier suffering from a rotation of larger servers rotating into the tier on a weekly basis making the game miserable. Coming from a similar situation in T3 facing Mag/whatever T2 server rotates down for the week, I do know the pain and apologize in advance for what’s about to happen.
Also, a question. While this will alleviate the staleness (but do nothing for the overall misery in the lower tiers due to the continued lack of any kind of balance that just gets worse daily), I do have to wonder, what happens at relinking. Will CD find themselves in T3 without the omniserver to help balance? I hope not, because being in situations like that is a whole different kind of misery, but by swinging the glicko in this fashion, it is potentially a risk.
Population balance will never be attainable as long as the goal is a moving target. As long as population moves to undo whatever semblance of balance a linking may initially give, it will immediately be shifted by people moving/no longer logging in. We had that problem. We were linked based on a population calculation that was immediately outdated as guilds moved off as soon as the servers were relinked. So our population was immediately lower than expected while another server’s population was immediately higher. This system is destined to fail because of this. Population balance, as WvW stands right now, in simply an unattainable dream. And then there’s the glicko issue, which is no longer a viable ranking system because server movement through the ranks is too slow and communities suffer for extended periods of time in match ups that are miserable, exacerbating the population shift that much more.
You say that like they aren’t already beating SoS and SBI. Have you not looked at the score yet? Mag’s just boohooing because they’ve stacked their NA with fight guilds and have nothing to fight. Funny how a problem that already existed before just got amplified when you add more. SoS hasn’t had a strong NA ever since T2 became such a cesspool back when YB was pushing to T1 and everyone transferred to get away from the tier. Not sure why this is suddenly a news flash to people. That’s ok, from what I hear those score changes are in our near future and that stacking may actually pay off and someone else can drop to T3 to cry about the same issues.
Well, I wasn’t gonna come on here begging for people since most have a pretty good idea of where they want to move….or who will pay them the most. But since everyone else seems to want to make the posts and my desire for WvW is that it be as healthy as possible for all servers involved….I decided to make sure all the T3 servers were mentioned equally.
Or SoS…or SBI. All are looking for people I’m sure and are good choice. Actually, if you want to stay in T3 and are looking for fights…SoS or SBI are the better choices.
It is very clear a static server system is no longer working for the WvW game mode.
Server linking is just a band-aid solution to make it semi-dynamic.
There needs to a new dynamic server system for WvW
So much this. As server loyal as I am, I honestly think the only way to fix this is to move away from the idea of servers. Stacking is still continuing at the cost of lower tier servers mainly. JQ is buying more guilds for a push back to T1, DB is continuing to bring in guilds, Maguuma’s NA is stacking as well. All these guilds come from somewhere and for the most part it’s people moving up. Lower tier servers will just continue to bleed population as this process continues and nothing has been put in place to halt it, especially now with so many host servers open. The same problems exist. For a true population solution, this system needs to be rebuilt completely because bandaid fixes are not going to fix the underlying issues.
This population + server merge thing isn’t working out. Beta is gonna last forever lol
Server linkings are past Beta I believe. Enough people voted in support of the idea that it’s now permanent or so I thought I read. I’ll have to see if I can find it where it was brought up. Sad to see how many people are now realizing that it’s not really solving anything.
Outnumbered in one timezone does not warrant opening a server as over populated as BG, sorry. Many servers below you wish they had an iota of the population that has crammed into BG over the years. Population is determined server wide, not based on timezone. I’m sorry your guild is split, but you joined the most populated server in the game and it was a risk you took in the process. BG does not need to and should not open until people move off.
Since arena net has finally removed crafting stations from wvw (freeing up a handful of queue slots), I feel the mystic forge is more of a culprit for people idling in wvw.
It really has no place in wvw, no one caps a garri over mystic forge access, instead those people go to lions arch. the forges presense is more of a quality of life thing for people converting soul bound karma gear into base materials without needing to way point and travel back and forth to vendors in tyria.
It can sometimes lead to queue space taken up, but mostly it allows for the out manned mechanic to be inaccurate which many scouts rely on in off hours
Actually we have a guild that used to cap an enemy garri or SMC for legendary craftings. I don’t know if they still do but it was definitely a tradition for them. They would use our own garri’s mystic forge if for whatever reason an enemy keep/SMC was just too much out of reach. I realize not every WvW guild does that and they are likely a minority, but it is/was a fun tradition all the same.
We need to not be outnumbered every hour of the day to be able to do that. People need to stop bailing on the server and give us something to fight with.
Every server has people who use siege and every server has people who like to fight. SoS is no different than any other server. Yes even Mag it seems have people that hump siege and fight over cannons. Go look at the thread titled Maguuma. FA does too. Stop treating SoS like we’re the only ones out there that does it. Yes…we resort to it sometimes because we’re vastly outnumbered most days of the week. Sorry we don’t just roll over and stop trying.
I wanted to say thanks for being such great partners in crime with SoS. It probably wasn’t always the easiest road, but you all stuck with us and I can’t ask for a better server to be paired with. Whatever happens at reset, I wish GoM all the best in the future, wherever the road leads you all. See you on the battlefield!
I’m on Kaineng, and getting linked to a T1 server certainly increased wvw action for us. We went from being almost a ghost town in wvw to suddenly having pretty much non stop activity in wvw. Sure, the blob warfare gets tiring, and roaming and havoc squads are a lot more challenging to do, but yea…..linking has definitely ‘fixed’ some things for the lower tiers.
And yea, it does come with problems….like loss of server identity, etc. But the linking has definitely given those of us on the lower tiers that wanted more action….it has given us lots more action.
Well glad it solved your problems then. The T3/T4 are taking up whereT6-T8 left off I guess. It may have made things better for you, but hasn’t fixed things elsewhere.
None of the servers in EU linked with full servers are showing full. That will likely carry over to BG when NA reset happens. And I did vote against linking. Anyone in lower tiers could already tell you that this hasn’t fixed anything.
Like I said…I know it wasn’t you who said it. But the rationale still stands. And no tier is balanced like you stated. We drop down, we’d be too big for T4 most likely. Same place as before all this started…and nothing done to fix it. Linking has done little to solve the problems that existed…just gave T1 more places to fit people.
Mag isn’t going to stay up past bed time to stop them from PvD. If they are going to PvD, no one is going to care if it is 4 am. LOL
And yet we’re supposed to tank to let you move to a tier that you can’t stay in because you won’t put the effort in to get there. Sure makes sense to me. I know it wasn’t you that said it….but that’s kinda the rationale in the end isn’kitten People will play how they want when they want and if no one is there to stop them, it is what it is…right?
One thing SoS will never do is tank. We play to play whatever the outcome. And I’m not sure what timezone you are talking about, but I’ve never seen that playstyle from SoS. We take things and move on. If people want to be trolly and try to farm someone they might exhibit the behavior you mention, or if it’s our own BL and people want to try to get upgrades to take. But on enemy BLs, no one is going to respond to defend something on an enemy BL unless it’s a guild looking for a fight.
You fail to understand that whoever takes Mag’s place will have just as much a population discrepancy as we face now. The outnumbered buff will still exist and we’ll still be fighting the same uphill battle. You want outta the tier, get there yourself. No one is going to give it to you.
We know Mag lost KEK. There was a rumor going around that VR was moving with them, but as I was involved in a scrim against them last night on SBI BL, I know that to be false. I also have heard of many offers being made to KILL, but T1 loves to throw money around as we all know, doesn’t mean they are accepted. Chris is probably working off the rumor that KEK/VR left Mag which I believe was posted on the cancer forums, of which we know only to be half true.
Edit: People also had been wondering where CCCP and TIE were as neither had been seen running the same numbers they used too, but I think we’ve started to see both guilds in larger numbers of late.
If this GvG revival does happen, it will depend on what tier it happens in as to if it will hurt or help us. Most of the GvG guilds that once called SoS home have long since moved on either to other servers or other games. If that revival comes to T3, we’ll see the boost. If T2 once against becomes the “fight tier”…and I use that term VERY loosely knowing what T2 has become….then we will likely lose more.
SoS does in fact have a server meeting every week right before reset and all are welcome to attend. We’re doing what we can to continue the sense of community as best we can and extend that to all in the pairing. We still have a core group that continues to find ways to try and improve in whatever way we can, including recently open forum profession discussions to help players old and new learn where they might be able to improve gameplay and such. Our next one is actually this coming Saturday. And with the linkings changing about that time as well, whoever we are paired with at that time is welcome to join us for the discussions. The last one was actually pretty cool/enlightening. I understand the OP’s frustrations, but we ARE trying and that at least should be noted. There’s only so much we can accomplish when it seems everyone would rather cram themselves into T1/T2 at an accelerating rate.
Yup, I was on SoS as well and glad that I moved off. The bad thing is their leadership or ‘council’ has their heads so far up their kittens, they think they’re a lot better than they are.
Which council may I ask are you talking about? Since it’s just gone through a reelection and possibly a second one since you’ve transferred off. Do you mean the 5 people that just stepped up to try a few weeks ago? Or perhaps the council before that which was plagued by a number of issues both RL and in game. Or perhaps the one before that which was mainly one guy telling everyone everything was ok when everyone was aware that it wasn’t?
I can assure you the “council” that you take such great joys in badmouthing is very much aware of the state of the server, is handcuffed in ways because of our constant locked status which is very much doing us no favors as well as many of the issues mentioned above. You can’t MAKE people play the game the way you deem it should be played. You can ask, beg, plead, hint, hint strongly, prod, etc, but you cannot FORCE people to run builds they should, stick on tag, use TS, etc. There’s no way to punish those players and the only repercussions aren’t something they care about really, or they would’ve already changed. The veterans on SoS that know what the game could be are trying, but until people start meeting us halfway on some of this stuff, there’s not a whole heck of a lot we can do except keep trying. Yeah, things aren’t great at the moment. I won’t say they are. But the state of the game as a whole isn’t great and not all of the changes that people love so much have worked out the same for all servers. Many of the same population problems and trends exist now, just a smaller tier pool for it to effect.
SoS has a good community and we are currently working on ways to improve things. I appreciate the feedback here. I would like to remind everyone that SoS as a server has struggled in part to being locked by the previous population calculations and then when we finally did open we were stuck in a miserable match-up that people were trying to escape at all costs. We as a server lost a lot of our more hardcore population because we could not recruit to be competitive and people left to look for other things /playstyles. It is what it is. The server has a lot of new players/new to WvW players and we are putting things in place to help them learn WvW in a different capacity then casual all the time as much as we can. So please don’t push the server aside based on “current impressions.” Yes, we have things that need work and we are well aware of that. Yes, we are starting to make moves to improve what we can. The community is still strong and we’re hoping to strengthen it.
Our OCX isn’t as strong as it used to be. Yes, we still have people during that timezone just like any server has people on at various times. It’s not the powerhouse it used to be. I know we have smaller guilds that run during that time zone but gone (for now at least) are the days of TS/BEAR/TF.
All the host servers were manually set full, in my opinion to force people to transfer to the linked server. But yes, it has hindered and hurt the host servers that do actually need to recruit. Recruiting right now is darn near impossible with no promise of the linkings being permanent and with people being allowed to stack to the t1 linked servers. It seems they are really the only servers getting the transfers at the moment. So nothing’s really changed, it’s just there are fewer tiers to lose population to T1 now.
T3 is losing guilds to BG/T1 as well. Funny how the stacking hasn’t stopped even as people are still crying for population balance. Servers being able to roll up/down a tier and being able to be competitive in those tiers when they get there are completely different things. There is still a population difference between the different tiers that caused those glicko walls to begin with. No one wanted to roll up/down a tier and either be rolled by superior numbers all week or run over the competition for the entire week. Only way for these match-up changes to be anywhere near fun enough to encourage those walls to not get rebuilt is to actually truly achieve some sort of population balance. Currently we do not have that and T1 is stacking just like old times.
Hiya! Come check out www.sosgw2.net. We have a list of guilds there, one of which is a euro guild! Check out [NINE] when you get there, I know they are recruiting
In the end it’s still coverage wars in a system that still hasn’t succeeded in balancing the population. shrug
I wish they would find a way to promote less blobbing, but it seems every change pushes us more and more into that mindset. PPK is great unless you give 5 players each credit for killing one player simply because they tagged that player. Promotes zerging down solo players and larger groups running over smaller groups, although I guess that’s honestly the mentality already.
I disagree with your premise that their contribution is discredited.
I’m not talking NA or prime time. When a server vastly outnumbers another for a slice of time, those people playing have a disproportionate effect on the score than their server mates. 40 v 5 v 5 people ticking 600 is rewarding more points over time per person than the 80 v 80 v 80 ticking 200.
But when is it ever 80v80v80? The populations aren’t balanced, even with this server linking. Maybe in T1/T2 it’s balanced like that, but I can tell you on my server….we run across the outnumbered buff more times than not in prime time too. That’s not an 80v80v80 situation.
In the end (after going back and looking at your original post), you and I are arguing about different thing anyway. So this argument is really a non-argument.
I don’t see how the proposed change (not the potential change) punishes or makes their score not matter. Just pulling numbers out of thin air here. If server 1 has 40 people and server 2 & 3 have 5 each, server 1 is going to steam roll every BL and tick 600+ A different time of the day each server is running 80 and all tick about the same. That smaller group of people has a bigger impact on the overall scoring than they should. The larger group is still going to outscore the other servers, but not so far as to keep the others from having a chance to compete.
Off hours, in my opinion, has just as much right to effect the score equally as “prime hours.” Especially since all the servers are not balanced in what Anet is dictating as “prime hours.” They put in just as much time and effort as the rest of us to work towards their server’s success and that shouldn’t be discredited in any way shape or form. Someone earlier in the thread told servers with low NA population (which includes mine) to “buy more NA coverage.” With these proposed changes not only are you telling what coverage my server does have that they matter less, but you are hurting what little NA coverage we do have more by weighting that timezone more. And I’m sorry….but neither of those situations sound like situations that is encouraging my server to push for a win more/show up to fight/etc.
And I won’t even touch on how much I hate the idea of “buying” coverage and how much that practice has screwed the game already.
Unless you want to create more server centers to give those you accuse of nightcapping somewhere to play where their score will “matter” with this new system you propose, then you can’t punish timezones by making their score not matter or matter less. They have as much right to play to help their server succeed as every other time zone. And without a true population balance system in place, all you do is hurt further servers that have lower prime time activity than other servers, because even with this current linking beta, those servers do still exist.
While I applaud the effort to solve the drastic population imbalance between servers/tiers, I have to say you missed the mark here. The server linking has done nothing to solve the drastic population imbalances between servers in NA. I can’t speak for EU servers, but having read some of the posts here it seems to be a similar issue. While I love the people on the server that we are linked with and welcome the ability to make some new friends, we are still facing server that outnumber us (even linked) most times of the day. The population imbalance may be condensed, but it still very much exists. This is in part due to some servers having been stacked with a lot more inactive accounts of players now returning to the game as well as people transferring to the linked servers when they can’t join the host. Tiers/servers are still stacking and the population is still shifting to the top servers for the most part. Meanwhile other servers (my own included) are seeing a slower return of players as well as still losing players to disinterest or being driven away by the blob mentality that seems to run WvW these days. I myself have been suffering extreme lag and game crashes due to the blobs that run the maps of late. This system needs to be reworked and approached differently, because linking hasn’t solved the issue.
These banners have no place in WvW. None. I play for a guild on SoS that runs a max of 20 on a very good night, trending more towards 15 regularly. We’re a fight guild and our focus/desire/dream in WvW raids is to take on equal or slightly larger groups in a fair fight and test our mettle. This is ALL we want. As of now we are already fighting completely outmanned by almost every enemy we engage on our own. The banners take an already unfair fight and push it well over the edge.
My guild, being the size that it is, does not have the banners available yet from the war room. We honestly just learned how to access them from towers/keeps yesterday. We don’t want to use them, we just want fights straight up. But we’re constantly faced with massive numbers sporting numerous banners every night. The game as it stands is literally the least fun it has EVER been to date. The nights we do raid are typically met with miserable fights, to the point that a majority of our players either don’t log in, play other games, or the guild as a whole elects to scrim each other in our guild hall instead of venturing into the misery that WvW has become. I used to spend 95% of my time in WvW. Now that fights are so unfair and so miserable for my guild….I rarely step foot on the maps.
Bumping again. Still looking for people interested in coming to SoS. Plenty of fights and action to go around, especially for anyone playing EU/early NA! Check us out!
I’ve passed your post on to those that can best respond to your questions. You can also get in touch with the server at www.sosgw2.com. Come say hi in the public chat box. We’re always happy to chat with people.
Plenty of people there willing to help I’m sure.