Guild Wars 2

First off, there is nothing ‘to fix’ with ‘zerging’. There will always be big fights in WvW, fights I and many others enjoy. But there should always be variety in WvW and there doesn’t seem to be enough.

Why not? Lets look at a simple example, one way to get small fights in an RvR/WvW game was to go ‘behind the lines’ and cut off reinforcements trying to get to some keep/tower fight. This can be done but it suffers from a number of game mechanics: a) hard to run down and finish players, on some of my 80s there would have to be many behind the lines to pose a threat of stopping me from getting to a toer or keep; b) not very far to go; c) I don’t worry about this but some do, not rewarding compared to being at the keep/tower fight;

I have no idea how you could up rewards, you can always get more kills in big fights which seems the only mechanic. Maybe could expand kill raduis that seems to acrue towards a keep/tower take/defense, that could help a little sicne even if a little ways away you’d get take/defense credit.

=> But IMO there’s only one way and that is to make the maps much large, with small objectives on the outer parts. The distance would mean most wouldn’t bother but the dedicated groups and soloers would enjoy the challenge of fighting tough opponents at the fringes, where they could fight over objectives that reward them (something in between a camp and tower reward, I think).

A final point is that those who complain must not be trying very hard. If you roam you get small fights at a good pace. Sure sometimes you get rolled by 10+ but that is rare. The biggest point for complainers seems to be a ‘lack of rewards’. Ummm, the realm abilities don’t affect small fights at all, mostly only useful for siege, and if you aren’t ‘zerging’ why do you want siege abilities?

Basically, quit asking for anet to ‘break up zergs’, aint gonna happen especially since most want the big fights. Make suggestions like above and man up, small fights mean tough opponents, lots of risk with minimal rewards. Just because you can’t hack it doesn’t mean you should flee to the forums and complain about zergs.

This is a very good idea and one that should have already been put in place by anet, since it is so simple to implement.

If they make it a choice, sure. But if it can’t be a choice I want them OFF.

Decent summary, I pretty much agree. It is unfortunate that scouting is unrewarding but I can’t think of anything they can do since anything they do will lead to AFKers standing on tower ramparts.

The siege timer is a toughie as well. I am pretty sure they did that so that people who build siege to ‘siege block’ a map will have to stay around that siege and maybe then ANET can catch em and ban them (or we can report them). But I don’t think it is worth it, 30 minutes is too short a time. Your suggestion is a good one.

I think along with stronger siege that they should make the realm ability that reduces siege damage more accessible/useful. I think upping the damage was a good idea, though suddenly jumping to 80% more was a poor choice, you never want to overdo changes. 40% would have been a big jump. I don’t mind 80%, just pointing out that WvW/PvP changes should always be as gradual as possible. How hard would it be to make it 20-40% then in 6 weeks another 20-40% more?

I think a problem with this discussion is that some people are focusing on specific fights while others are more giving an impression of overall WvW fights. I like how some have made two lists.

Take for instance a point made earlier about Thief short-bow. I don’t have a thief but have had a chance to jump on my friend’s thief. I like thief a lot and it has some big strengths and some big weaknesses. Anyways, if I trait for short-bow use, I literally have to change how I play his thief by a lot. But in big fights that build shines, the nearly spammable AOEs you can lay down are great. Downside? Its closer range than you’d like, so I have to switch gear to make him more durable, lowers his dps but that isn’t why I am going short bow.

I have come across very tough engineers and rangers, typically they can just dodge alot and because they are good they dodge at the right times, all the while putting out solid dps.

But when I consider ‘best’ I consider it ‘overall best’. And classes that have good dps, lots of AOEs (support or dps or cc) and escape/survival mechanisms are what I will always rank high since they can do well in ANY fight. Its why I put Ele high up along with guardians. Necros have some great abilities and I can see why some would place them high up. Maybe as I level my alt necro up I’ll see why some rank them very high but I currently feel they are great for big fights but so-so for small grp.

Anyways, I’d love a Ranger bump since I like my Ranger. I’ll also add I have tried my firends engineer and they are really hard to play well, lots of timing and I think if I wanted to make one I’d get a programmable keyboard because GW2’s UI is pretty lame.

Helpful to organized groups, yes. OP? No.

Prove it is OP, like with healing numbers and what not. I have a warrior, I can’t stack heal stat, would sooo kitten my warrior. I have used the burst and the leap, it helps but it has never seemed OP. I also don’t run with organized groups very often nor do I usually run a brust build, so maybe players who can enlighten with some facts (showing either point).

1 WXP per 2 supply shouldn’t have people repairing simply to get WXP. I think they just want the XP to level up in most cases.

That damage you state is an exageration. I have a ranger and use longbow and sure, it hurts, but maybe 8k-10k max. You must have been hit by something else. The longbow AOE timer is long so you just heal and use it again. Retaliation can be troublesome but usually only in big zerg fights where it is tough to keep track of where the damage is coming from. Especially when suffering from skill lag.

That said I would change Retaliation and Confusion, and not how ANET is doing it. For instance, Retaliation is a fixed amount no matter how much or how little damage you do (I assume because it saves on processing). It’d be much better if it was a percent of the damage taken * some power modifier.
Confusion is just dumb, you never want to discourage ability use. My only re-think on this is that maybe it should cause a skill ‘fumble’ (not all onboard on this, just something to consider). Ona fumble, the weapon skill doesn’t fire but you get the timer. The chance to fumble could be based on how many stacks you have, with 5 stacks the max (many further changes would be needed). And by skills I mean weapon skills, not selected skills. A weapon skill failure just makes you auto-attack. You should always be able to use your heal and selected abilities. Its basically a randomized dps reduction until you remove it.

ANET says zerg or quit and tic tacs are a candy.

Thieves: still good, but culling changes were what really reeled them in. Now some are still good and annoying to kill (in and out of stealth all the time) but you don’t die to a theif because he was hitting you for 4 seconds before he rendered.

Ele: still seems the strongest of my 3 80s (ranger, warrior). The range and AOEs just make him usable in nearly all fights, and I can run him full zerker in zergs if I want, or from tower/keep tops. Or go with tough and D/D still. Changes affected them but not that much IMO.

Ranger: same as before, I like my ranger a lot for a few reasons, a decent all-around char but lacks some punch, though some builds have better than you think survivability.

Warrior: the changes helped to make some new builds but weren’t what I was looking for. I don’t need to be able to chase people down better, was already great at that if I traited for it, its the ‘inability to detach from massive concentrated fire’ that is the problem. Many classes have escape abilities where they take no damage and/or you lose target. Even my ranger has great escapinest because of near constant vigor, so I can dodge a ton (dodging is sooooo much better than absorbing). Warriors get ignore pain but it simply isn’t as useful as my near constant dodging example, or Ele telport, Mesmer escapes, etc. And you really can’t absorb damage in this game, well, you can, my warrior is max toughness and a bit of vit, but you still can get hit for a ton. In GW2 it is all about AVOIDING damage. Good players can stick to my warrior like glue and 3 DPSers will drop anyone pretty fast. Warriors can really shine in some fights, that is a good point for em but in general, they are still so-so IMO. I do like playing my warrior, I just don’t see how players can say they are ‘OP’, that seems silly.

Mesmers: mesmers are still good, just that it seems a good build is no longer viable, which is pretty lame. I don’t like it when devs over-nerf. (or over-buff)

Necros: seem better but not sure why people say they are ‘OP’, they needed a slight boost. But I haven’t fought enough of em yet to say, aren’t a lot of geared necros in WvW.

Gaurdians: not sure, seem same so far.

Arrow carts: like someone above said, you the range mastery and get on one of these and any char becomes OP, heh.

The ac buff changes things, not really sure yet how. Probably just slightly extended sieges as atatckers simply use catas or trebs more often, rather than ram or golem rush. That isn’t necessarily bad.

IMO, what is discouraging is that instead of allowing players to stand on walls and fight, alla be more interactive using their classes abilities, anet instead just threw us arrow carts. I thought defense needed to be stronger/easier but I was hoping for stronger gates and a better LOS from wall tops. I beleive in players fighting with siege support, not players supporting siege.

Boulderbolg.3460:

BrockMcCleery.9562:

Well, his problem is that the game is all about objectives, which get flipped fast by large forces.

WvW is extremely objective oriented. Killing reinforcements, defending to slow attackers, etc., all give little reward.

Just have to do it for fun. Plus the rank rewards are not needed, except the AC range one. That ups its range so much, I consider it a must have now.

In general, the devs seem to have this idea that WvW should only be big fights. If you want smakll fights goto sPvP. Granted sPvP gets old fast but that is what they seem to want.

Yeah, Anet devs seem a little out of touch when it comes to small group play in WvW. I do think that making towers/keeps easier to defend with arrow carts, and thus keeping the zerg busy doing what the zerg was intended to do, was a step in the right direction.

Yeah, I definitely think we could use more defense. I would have preferred stronger gates and maybe a 20% boost to AC damage. Not sure what effect the changes will have, ight make the zergs even bigger, heh.

Well, his problem is that the game is all about objectives, which get flipped fast by large forces.

WvW is extremely objective oriented. Killing reinforcements, defending to slow attackers, etc., all give little reward.

Just have to do it for fun. Plus the rank rewards are not needed, except the AC range one. That ups its range so much, I consider it a must have now.

In general, the devs seem to have this idea that WvW should only be big fights. If you want smakll fights goto sPvP. Granted sPvP gets old fast but that is what they seem to want.

I wouldn’t remove it, I’d just up it, slowly.

Like try 8 instead of 5. That change would make a big difference, that’s a lot of extra dps in large fights that exveryone would be doing.

And looks like they overnerfed confusion. I felt it needed changes made to it but I wouldn’t have ‘fixed it’ the way they are doing it.

I can’t say for sure until I test it but after some thinking, I am fairly certain I can get better dps without using that ability. That is 20 points that can be really useful in other lines. But it opens up some possibilities.

Bottom line, it doesn’t address the problems warriors face in WvW. I don’t find playing a warrior in WvW (I have a few 80s) overly difficult but other classes seem to do a better job at killing or support or surviving in the thick of big fights. You’d think warriors would be best at fighting in big blobs but I can name a few class builds that have the same survivability with better dps. I currently just get on my warrior when I feel like using siege, the only thing they seem best at. They also can chase down enemies pretty well. But I really don’t use him anymore.

pulsecodesgnl.3470:

I really disagree with quite a few posts in here, rallying off NPC’s is fine. It makes you aware of your surroundings. It’s also not like it provides an advantage because you can do the same thing.

This is not PvP, it’s WvW; there are PvE and PvP elements for a reason.

Don’t want them rallying off of the NPC? Kill it before they do. Being aware of your surroundings is a perfectly valid tactic, don’t get mad because you were outplayed. There is enough EZMode as it is.

It adds elements, the problems are that some classes have great attacks and evasions from downed states and can easily kill mobs from a downed state. 2nd, some classes have amazing amounts of annoyance (in-out stealth thieves, mesmers), this just doubles their annoyance.

Everyone wonders why there isn’t a lot of ‘small grp fights’, well, there you have it. IT IS VERY ANNOYING. Why should I bother with a thief or mesmer in mobs, ever? I fought one on my warrior for 10+ minutes, there is no point to it. None. I will just run with 10+ and only fight at objectives, since you can just run away from those classes. Open field small group fighting is a total waste of time, changing rally would make it possibly ok. It isn’t even worth cutting off reinforcements without a very good group or 10+. Some will say they can but killing upgraded players is not really cutting off reinforcements. Almost doing the enemy a favor, that is some lvl 20 who won’t be getting the blob AOE boon buffs.

It is most definitely a PvE first MMO. Not as much as Rift or WoW became, but much more so than I expected.

Rallying off NPCs is a must go, it is out-and-out stupid in WvW. Only ones that can be argued are guards, but mob NPCs shouldn’t rally in WvW.

The issue with the downed state is that it rallies multiple players if anything they tagged gets killed.

SO!
=> NPCs don’t rally
=> 1 player killed = 1 player rallied, not many
=> once rallied from a killed player you get a 5 minute debuff that keeps you from being rallied from player kills

I say this because as is, good fights look like complete crushing victories for a side because of the snowball effect. Second, everyone tags so many and wisely so. I can recall rallying off of player kills 8 times in under a 2 minutes in a really big fight.

Stopping and rallying a downed player is part of the game but just keep kill rallies in check and many issues will go away.

Boulderbolg.3460:

Hopefully Camelot Unchained will come close.

Its a ways off even if they make their jump start money goal. I hope they do, I am no fan of Jacobs but his latest talk/inteview seemed to show that he ‘gets it’. I put up some cash for it, the more MMOs trying to create RvR/WvW the better.

WRod.3856:

covenn.7165:

Pvp.2758:

Fill in the blank.

JQ = ?
SOR = ?
BG = ?

JQ = Coverage wins
SoR = Quantity over Quality
BG = Bag Gate

*Fixed.

100 man SOR zergs vs 40 man BG/JQ zerg doesn’t equal to quality > quantity my friend.

I don’t get this, BG and JQ field massive blobs as well. Is this just an excuse for losing big fights? Maps get capped, blobs get huge, deal with it. Early morning FOO shows up with 50+ against 20 defenders. Oh noes, quantity matters in PvP…

LetoII.3782:

I hear maps are in the works.
Glad they prioritized mechanics actually, though I want maps too.
I still resent WAR for throwing in big speakers before getting the rust work finished.

That is good news, I hope they can roll em out before summer.

Yeah, WAR… I enjoyed the combat there but so many mechanical problems in the big fights. Took over a year for it to be reasonably working. Culling was annoying but nothing compared the the intense lag and server crashes in WAR during the first 3-5 months.

Its funny, Aion was fun because flying combat was different and fun (IMO) but man the grind, and WAR was also fun but had its problems. Rift had some good classes and combat but just abandoned PvP since the PvP in open world was crashing their servers. All had many core ideas done well but none were close to a complete package. WAR was probably the closest.

… heh, was gonna go into a long littany of stuff but just not the proper thread for “why we can’t or haven’t had another DAoC” yet. I also greatly enjoyed Shadowbane but I can’t imagine another game being like that ever again, it was unique.

AT least GW2 is good/solid. It lacks a couple key RvR/WvW elements but overall very well done. My personal contention is that I like more choices when fighting, so the 10-14 ability buttons seem a bit low to me, but that is my preference, not a knock on the game. If they ever allow for easy switching of traits and gear, I’ll be very happy since then I can switch around ‘on the fly’ and get more interesting gameplay.

Sometimes its fun to run back over your route and pickup bags but usually it is just very annoying.

=> at a minimum, badges and coin should auto-loot => better would be badges, coin and any greens+ auto-loot

The first is a no brainer, easy to implement.

Why say its failing when it clearly is not? Just say “WvW could use these changes” or whatever.

Anyways, I agree that maps need to be bigger and more varried.

Q times? Even in tier 1 this is only a problem Friday night after reset. NON-ISSUE. They have to cap pop, deal with it. Maybe with bigger maps and some more efficiency fixes they could up the cap.

The could use some reward changes but there’s always complaints about rewards and what rewards most. Just play the game, ranks just come. I played DAoC and never cared about RPs. They just happened and I was top 25. Sometimes I went to keeps, sometimes I soloed and sometimes I ran with friends or with top gank groups. Players fret way too much over rewards. Only thing that matters is the ease with which one can attain competitive gear, which is still reasonable in GW2.

scamtron.3610:

Pvp.2758:

Fill in the blank.

JQ = ?
SOR = ?
BG = ?

Aquatic version!!!

JQ= 20% Whale 80% Barnacles ….FOO being the whale…incoming!
SOR= Jellyfish zerg…get to close and it may sting
BG= Hermit Crab…get them to come out of their shell and they may pinch ya

Heh, that one was funny.

I’ve seen JQ, SoR and BG groups of 20+ all fight well. The game is about coverage so JQ gets an edge and so what? It isn’t like we lose relics.

The problem I have is teh repetition. We have masss fights so often that there isn’t any ‘getting excited for the big brawl’ feeling, or, "lets try something really different/innovative by…’ talk (well, there is some but it matters for liek a few hours if something gets planned and then its same-old, same-old).

There’s no downtime, no time to just have fun fighting and fooling around with 5-10 buds. Maps funnel players, small objectives are too close to keeps. Its just big blobs and havoc squads. We really need bigger maps, more objectives that are minor but are fun to fight over, more varied terrain… just more spice to WvW. Its a great start but man, I need to hear some plans on what they will be adding now that culling is fixed (it took awhile but that fix made a huge difference for me, so bravo).

Being able to save and switch would be great. Did Rift patent this? Because it is a no brainer as a great game feature as well as easy to implement. So not sure why GW2 doesn’t do it.

@above

Hmmm, wasn’t in combat, will check that next time I am on.

=> that is good to know, the timing of it. Kinda lame, 2 seconds isn’t that long but worth it. 1 second, not so much. Though who knows server side what happens, gamne is a little wonky with timings.

Thanks for replies/info

I have a new alt, a ranger. I just got Companion’s Defense but when I dodge roll I don’t get any indication that I receive a protection boon, as described.

Is it working and just no buff symbol or is it broken?

Thanks

It would be nice if condition removal would remove the most damaging conditions first. When it comes to reduced healing, how much it reduces healing could be counted as damage. Snares/chills become trickier, but could always give them a ‘damage weight’ for ordering.

This would effectively remove big stacks of confusion or bleeds, first. This could also be done client side. Ideally, we get a way to set what gets removed first because different classes have differing needs.

This is something that should be added to GW2, not because of confusion, but simply because it is a good idea that would make for better gameplay.

Kryyg.8576:

Is it the game or does this matchup just seem boring now?

Its the game. They went for ‘fast paced’ I guess, but it feels very repetitive. All MMOs have repetition but I seem to hit the wall in GW2 sooner than in any previous MMO. WvW is setup fairly well but the PvP, even when you setup your groups well, seems… fun at first but then gets old fast IMO. Add in the quick zerg fights that all come down to numbers due to the fact that numbers = rezzing of downed players (as long as each side is reasonable in combat) and you get Numbers Wars 2.

Game is fun but I don’t know how players can do it every night, most fights are very straight forward/boring.

They both need to happen a lot less often than they do.

I also don’t understand why skill lag, which was very rare, is suddenly so much more of a problem the past 3 weeks.

I’ve seen it used to save a treb in a tower that was being attacked by 2 enemy trebs that were quick built by a large force. The tower had like 10 defenders, so it isn’t just favoring the “zerg”.

I haven’t seen it be OP, I’ve seen it used to slow the destruction of siege but it isn’t an instant defensive win. What could help is if ANET made the balista siege shot 4000m range, so you could quick build one and at least hit catas. Forces enemies to get close to the keep/tower to get the balista, which maybe has AC cover/support. And just that balista shot, not the other 2 used on infantry.

jojojoon.8607:

Zen.8497:

Miiaah.5416

“I really don’t have culling issues with my new iMac, even on high settings large fights are much better but then again I like staying in smaller groups like 15-20 on our side”

It is common knowledge that culling issues are on the server side and not on the client side. It is already announced to be fixed in the new patch.
I always go by if you tell the truth you don’t have to remember anything.

False, culling is also a client issue while skill lag is a server issue. About 7 or 8 posts down in the thread below, an Anet developer says the exact opposite of what you’re saying. I guess if you lie or post something false enough times, people will believe it.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/pvp/wuvwuv/Decrease-lag/first#post1665152

Here’s is a quote from a dev explaining that it is also a client issue.

In order to cut down on the network resources that were used by the game and to reduce the client-side system requirements, we implemented a culling system, which imposed a limit on the number of characters that could ever be reported to your client. This meant that only the characters closest to you would actually get reported.

https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/world-vs-worldthe-end-of-culling/

lol. They culled “SERVER SIDE” because their network couldn’t handle all the packets that SHOULD HAVE been sent.

They made client modifications for slower machines so when culling is turned off, they won’t suffer client side lag.

CULLING = server side
RENDERING = client side (changes will allow one to choose how much or how little your client will render, which you will base on your machine’s speed)

At least skill lag you got right, it is server side. Though it seems to be caused by a bottleneck in the network’s ability to receive information.

It seems that they didn’t think through how much information they need to send and receive in large scale WvW when combined with near full servers. A network can only send and receive so much data per second and I think they are capped out. This means that they need to change game mechanics in order to actually fix lag or culling, or both (need to reduce the amount of packet updates sent and received, by, for instance, increasing pulse times of some AOE abilities. Some pulse every second, if they up em to 3 seconds (increasing damage or heals, etc.) then you get less information that needs to be sent and received).

I suspect the upcoming patch will either change game mechanics, they bought more bandwidth or we will have to live with skill lag.

It’s broken, no idea why anyone would argue against that. Stun locks are always bad for PvP game play. This is basically the same thing except it immobilizes. Those kind of mechanics make players leave PvP games.

If you can’t kill enemies without broken abilities you shouldn’t PvP and should definitely not come to the forums and defend something that is so stupidly broken.

This thread has its moments but overall… it fails to deliver.

And sorry BG forum trolls, you guys take stuff out of context worse than Fox News and much like the last election you declare yourselves winners even though you lost… then blame pancakes for it when it is always waffles fault.

I just hope next week has better fights like we had last week.

And I hope that the culling patch actually works because the Oracle foretells many server crashes and CTDs. The night of the comet is coming.

Chaba.5410:

Oh I see.

In some ways I think this game is made to be around awhile in that such issues will become obsolete as computing power and bandwidth increases.

Yeah, I hope so. Or maybe this march they will implement something clever. That would be great. Hell, just a nice improvement in lag and culling would be great. They said they will remove culling and everyone can choose rendering options. That can mean many things but at least it should mean if you have a good PC you won’t have any culling issues, you’ll see all the enemies and allies. I suspect they are prioritizing player positions so that they get updated much more often, which will be great if it works like it should. Maybe you can’t see everything that is happening but that isn’t needed in a really big fight (well, aoe circles are kinda up there on the list, but they are cheap and easy to render). Everyone would be very happy if they could see all the enemies and not have to wait for abilities. It should be doable with proper prioritization of what info is critical to send, along with what seems to be a means to reduce details so that slower PCs can also render 100+ players, reasonably.

Ezeriel.9574:

Stepping away from the zerg means being killed by someone in stealth, and then being stomped by someone in stealth.

That’s the bottom line for me. If I step away from the zerg, I’m just a free kill.

That is a valid point. The risk verse reward for many class/builds makes solo or small grp (1-3) not a good option. But we do lack even grps of 10 roaming around, unless it is off-hours (since then 10 can be a force, but during prime time 10 is not enough).

Chaba.5410:

Brock,

I think you missed my basic point. The growth is not linear. The amount of data the server has to process will grow faster than the number of clients. Whether the growth is exponential, cubic, or slower, is just a small side detail.

Well, I was trying to point out (obtusely in retrospect) that it seems to be a throughput issue. We have fast enough servers and clients, but you can only send so much data. It is pretty expensive to do a parallel data distribution setup, so they are (I believe) limited by their Internet lines. I don’t know if they do any packet compression.

Ability lag is an indication of server side computation bottlenecks but that is a recent problem so I believe it is more something they broke (or maybe they are doing lots of logging to check stuff).

Anyways, the problem could (imo is) be that they setup classes so that they have to constantly send way too much data every tick. There is no easy way to fix that. If you hit the transmission ceiling you are pretty much screwed and have to go back and rework abilities in ways that reduce necessary updates, or you just do necessary updates server side in large fights while only sending minimal information client side (like positions and damage taken, but not what buffs and debuffs you have on you) (would be better but not ideal).

I could be wrong, maybe they have slow code or need to just buy faster servers. Just seems unlikely, GW2 is a hit and they should have money for faster machines if they needed em. And the game is pretty solid. Like consider WAR. Early on so laggy but after a year it was working. How could such crappy code get that much better while GW2s code has been stuck in its current state since launch? They hit the transmission ceiling, something that can’t be fixed without a lot of effort.

WhiskeyJack.5839:

If you want to play WvW on the most populated servers then expect consequences (skill lag).

Like people quitting the game? What exactly is your point? To argue that we shouldn’t ask for something that they marketed the game as being able to do?

And this is actually a complaint over something they recently created. The lag delay on abilities used to happen every now and then, now it is always happening in all aspects of the game.

I don’t think it has to do with coordination. Zerg term gets thrown around too much.

I think it just has to do with wanting to sometimes fight 10v10. Its great to have big fights, that is why we WvW but sometimes it is nice to see that you are ‘having an effect on a battles outcome’, which is tough to notice ikitten0v50v50, especially with lag and culling issues.

And there is also the strategic issues. Now, some do strategically roam with 5 to get camps and kill dolyaks. I think many don’t because they don’t like running into the big 20+ “zerg”, which happens fairly often. This happens because the maps are small and so it isn’t as tough or costly as it needs to be for a 20+ man mob to hunt down some 5 man groiup that is trying to be commando ‘behind enemy lines’. Just not enough area to run off into and avoid the large “zergs” that would normally go on more direct routes.

In DAoC you had speed over the big forces and this gets suggested a lot. It would do the trick but since it isn’t in at launch, not sure it would be taken well by those who enjoy the game on its ‘more even playing field’, whatever that means. Well, it means whatever perspective it is coming from. I just like a game to be fun and mixed types of battles in WvW is fun for me.

Chaba.5410:

Sorry, the lag has nothing to do with one’s PC, but with the server’s ability to handle client data. As the number of clients increases linearly, the amount of data increases exponentially.

Hmm, its polynomial. F friendlies need updates on E enemies, and abilities are capped at affecting C friendlies/enemies. Movements based on a ranged circle are F * E updates. Circle checks are polynomial as well. When fighting each player can affect C friendlies and C enemies but that is additive. (F*E location updates + X * C friendly buff updates + X * C enemy updates + Y * C enemy updates) * some polynomials that do LOS checks, range checks, etc for who sees who and what abilities affect who. It isn’t small but it isn’t exponential (very roughly). X^Y isn’t what is happening.

The overhead for GW2 is all the pulsing AOE affects, that is info that needs to be ranged checked every tick (then updated in packets sent) and that is a costly check compared to most checks like a simple single target LOS check or range check. You get 20+ pulsing their various buffs and throwing around AOEs all the time at enemies and it is a large amount of data to be constantly sending and updating. If you think about past games, none of them had the amount of constantly spamming AOE effects (friendly or at enemies) GW2 has on EVERY class.

This makes for big packets and there is a strict upper bound on how much information can be sent over T1 lines. That is the problem and it is BAD DESIGN. Given the classes and abilities, you can calculate how much information you need to send. They didn’t do this and this is why they can’t easily fix the problem. I figure the March update will actually change a number of abilities and how they function in order to reduce the size of packet updates. Like you can check AOE friendly affect pulses (like banners) less often and other changes (like they pulse every 3 seconds, you make em pulse every 6 seconds because that is when you do the range checks and player updates, on an ability pulse). It is complex but anet dropped the ball.

Cactus.2710:

Aurust.8961:

Anet better get their stuff together… a poster mentioned in a thread on guru that Anet “wrote the ten commandments on what NOT TO DO for large scale pvp combat” and all of their business competitors im sure have taken notice.

I couldnt agree more.

Rift (in the form of their Conquest 3-faction map) probably did it the worst, but GW2 is a close second. The trouble is, ANet seems to have neither the inclination nor the resources to fix the key shortfalls of WvW … points that two very large Tier 1 guild leaders seemed to reluctantly acknowledge when they publicly stated in one of the recent weekly GW2Junkies telecasts that GW2 was now merely a place holder for their members until TESO and ArcheAge come out later this year. I honestly don’t think WvW in GW2 will recover in time even though I truly wish it would.q

Yeah, Rift was fun but ultimately a big disappointment as they did nothing for PvP/RvR and just focused on PvE.

Jski.6180:

One person having lag with there skill means nothing in wvw and in a group fight now if every one is having this lag well then it becomes a problem.

Any way your chose is culling or lag take your chose.

Heh, I choose neither of them because they aren’t an either or choice. Well, we have both now but anet is breaking stuff lately.

What is interesting is that I have found that some abilities usually fire, while others simply won’t fire without many attempts. The AOE abilities usually won’t fire while single target tend to fire off immediately or by the 2nd attempt. Except, oddly, some of my self-targeted defensive skills, but not heals. My self-heals go off fine but not AOE heals. Of course, sometimes I just freeze up but that is your basic ‘you just got run over by 40+’ GW2 culling lag. The enemies always appear as you go into your deaths throws.

If the March patch is meh I am back to WAR until I make a stab at the next MMO to get it wrong.

Everything seems to be designed to favor 1-2 large forces roaming the map. I think we are stuck with this because changes like making the map bigger or extra speed (somehow) or whatever, will just make a large number of players upset.

What would make GW2 classes much more enjoyable (for myself at least) is if we could setup weapon <=> builds and swap weapons (and thus builds) on the fly (a short timer between swaps). That would be awesome. I mainly PvP, would so enjoy this. I want more options when I fight. As it is, I can tell who will win 90% of the time after a few blows/skills get used and either press the attack or run away. And you want different stuff for keep defense versus open field, etc. Would just be much more tactically engaging.

It is the very definition of game breaking since you literally can’t play the game.

What I don’t get is why it is so much worse over the past week. They must have changed something. Maybe they are doing a lot of logging.

Anyways, 3-way fights should be the best part of WvW rather than nearly unbearable.

I can’t exactly say what it is but I basically agree. The combat system seems fun at first but after awhile I find it rather bland. There is some depth but maybe it just isn’t really needed? I don’t find I need to time stuff or think too much in PvE or PvP on any of the 3 classes I have tried. Maneuvering is about it with some stuff that needs timing (dodging, some abilities). But in big fights its spam high dps stuff.

I enjoyed Rifts system (especially roles) and WAR’s more than GW2s. Though GW2 wins out because it has a PvP meta-game that works. (well, basically works, hopefully they fix culling like they promise).

I agree that things feel to get somewhat quick. I am not sure about your idea but we could definitely use ‘more’. I personally think the actual PvP is a little too bland. I like more options when I am fighting than what I have. After that, bigger maps or maybe an underground area.

I see downed mesmers use it fairly often whenever its GvG since (usually) only a lot of people can kill a mesmer fast. And you can’t argue against the point that it is a great downed state ability. But there are many abilities I think should be looked at before this one, it isn’t a big deal since it is only useful every now and then.