Guild Wars 2

I’d rather not play the fencing of words… but I also blame the person conducting the interview not to lead with followup questions like “um, can you give a straight answer” or “so does that mean there will be grinds, just not forced ones? If there are optional grinds, what kind of dedication to the pursuit are we talking here?” That’s why I never paid much credence to those interviews and blogs… to much fluff and not enough substance, more of a marketing tool than something that actually gives us an idea of what we’re buying.

I mean I knew there was going to be vertical progression and optional grinds… the VP part doesn’t really bother me given how gradual and optional it is, but the legendary grind holy kitten. It almost invokes the old days of D2 mf runs for a perfect stated Gripphon’s Headress or other super low drop rate stuff (which I think I could get any of those D2 items faster than any legendary item in this game without spending any real money or botting).

Raf.1078:

Hey here is an idea!…Lets all target a tank, stand flat footed and spam rotations…oh wait

Just like how most defenders say that this combat system is far from lacking depth, the same is true of the trinity system’s combat. If you think trinity combat is basically that, then I’m assuming you never did a raid or the challenges further along in the dungeon. Not saying raids are devoid of your occasional softball tank n’ spank fights, but there are some really tough ones too. I use raids because trinity systems especially shine in bigger fights and the difference between say a class with a tanking tree that fixates on block/parry and a class with a tanking tree that fixates on dodge/armor is quite noticeable.

xiv.7136:

Grats on MMO of the Year!

Another well deserved award, GW2 has most of the GOTY awards for 2012.

The flamers are just hilarious at this point when everyone is loving GW2 except for a few kids and immature adults stuck in boring, ugly pandaland

It’s also hilarious when people, regardless of their feelings for a game, think that because a non-gaming professional gives an award with no basis on how the determination was made, it somehow carries weight or is true… That’s why no one cares about MTV’s movie of the year award in lieu of say the Oscars or Golden Globes.

If you wanna go with that line of thought along with the “everyone loving X game” mass opinion, then metacritic which aggregates all the critic scores, puts Walking Dead at the top for 2012. If one critic’s opinion is truth, then an aggregate opinion of 60+ whatever critics must be truthier.

Also some food for thought, the Walking Dead is the lowest scoring GOTY on Metacritic since 2003, which means there are are at least 8 GOTYs better than the Walking Dead and however many games that scored better than it. GW2 has a 90% and is ranked 4th highest, it’s also the last game on the list which has a score of 90% or higher. Last year alone, there were 32 titles that scored 90% or higher which means between 2011 and 2012, there are about 35 titles that are just as good or better than GW2.

Sources matter… I generally prefer accolades from within the industry; as in professionals working in the gaming industry who vote what they think was the best games of the year. Last year, Skryim took home almost every industry accolade even though Arkham Asylum was Metacritic’s GOTY 2011. I’m anxious to see what GW2 gets… I think it’ll get a bunch, but there were some bold titles this year as well even if they didn’t hit all the high notes as well as some really well done or interesting titles (Hotline Miami, Journey, Crusader Kings II, etc).

A scavenger hunt… I guess if it adds lore to the item, then I’ll give credit to the effort, but it’s still a hindsight one at best.

And before I hear “well D3 has legendary items with no backstory”…. almost all the D3 legendary items take the name from some unique or highly sought after items that existed in D1 and/or D2, are items described in lore within the D3 story (like Leoric’s crown), or have little text descriptions that give it a story; so in a sense, they do have backstory and aren’t just purple texted (orange in D3) items.

I’ll submit this article for everyone to take a look at… but the short of it is that this year was rather lackluster for gaming if you solely base it on the review scores. According to metacritic, which awards a GOTY based on highest aggregate review score…

“The Walking Dead had the highest aggregate review score for the year with a 95, making it the lowest scoring ‘Game of the Year’ since Grand Theft Auto: San Andreas in 2003.”

http://www.digitalspy.com/gaming/news/a448411/2012-a-lacklustre-year-for-games-says-metacritic.html

Obviously we can scrutinize the source… but same can be said for anybody that gives out a GOTY award.

Vol.5241:

You’re playing the wrong genre if you don’t like ‘grind’. You want a game that needs ‘skill’, go play FPS game. Or RTS. Not an MMO.

There is ‘grind’ in every MMO. Not sure how you are only finding this out now.

What do you suggest, anyways? Let’s make it very easy to get legendary weapons, so that everyone is running around with them? At that point you wouldn’t want it, right?

I assume you wanted a Legendary right now because it’s rare and it looks nice. But if you start handing them out, then the appeal isn’t all that high, is it?

Or you could have them be obtained through of series of actual skill-based pursuits…. You know, since it’s a skill-based game and all that.

You could have some aspects that are solo challenges that require a real mastery of the profession, and maybe even a group challenge that shows a real mastery of the professions working together. In WoW, all the legendary weapons, while having the lame RNG-factor, had a skill component to getting them, especially during the BC-days when raids got trimmed down to 25 (or even pre-BC with AQ40 or Naxx). There was no way to gear, grind, farm your way through to bypass the skill necessary to get any of the legendary items other than Thunderfury (kinda).

Legendary items in WoW and most games even have a backstory to them… Where’s the backstory for Bifrost, Twilight or any of the GW2 legendary items? Seems like there was a good opportunity for the precursor to set in motion a unique story line for each item, all the more reason to go for legendary.

So I guess the question is….

who drew first blood?

^^ No offense, but just because there’s tons of stuff to do doesn’t mean it’s worthwhile doing… whether you interpret worthwhile from an interesting point-of-view, an acquisition standpoint, or some other perspective. A number of Rockstar games are a good example of what I’m talking about. Technically, they have 100+ hours of gameplay, but most of that gameplay is finding 100 pigeons or golden reels or whatever that give you nothing or don’t reveal anything really interesting about the game…. yeah it’s stuff to do, but hardly worthwhile (some of the minigames can be fun though).

Also you have to look at it this way…

If you want to convey a complaint, you usually try to use the best format to be heard. Stating complaints on general chat in LA is not as effective as on these forums…. because a moderators screening threads are more likely to pick up discourse of a particular issue better than screening the LA chat log. Also, what if I’m in Wayfarer Foothills or some other map and have a complaint? Again, easier to have all the complaints regardless of zone condensed into a forum threads than specific lines buried in a huge log of on-going text.

I think a trinity/no-trinity system works depending on context and scale of endgame pursuits. GW2 and many of the no-trinity games are mostly small group or solo pursuits, which make a trinity-type system sort of unnecessary. The combat and dodging and flexibility in what you can do is fine; I think some folks will disagree with me on this and cite AC and some of the other dungeons, but there are gems of good encounters and the Fractal encounters were definitely a step in the right direction in terms of encounter design. However, once you start getting into things of larger scale it becomes a total mess. Maybe that’s the combat system and/or the encounter design, i’m not sure other than I certain feel the loss of a challenge.

WoW and many that employ the trinity system fixate on larger group pursuits. In raids and the fixed battlegrounds (at least pre-WotLK), the specializations and diversity among the different flavors of tanks/healers/dps’ers and what they respectively bring to the table become much more apparent and even necessary to scrutinize over. At smaller scales, though, the combat complexity is usually much lesser and the forced trinity becomes more an annoyance…. Except maybe Arena, which even then usually has some “ideal” group combos based more on a GW2-type system than a trinity system (with heals/debuffing mainly playing the equivalent GW2 role of support).

Erasculio.2914:

There is a great article in GamaSutra about how often people join a new online world hoping, whether they realize it or not, that it will be an exact copy of their first online world (read it here).

Whenever I read someone asking for raids (or the holy trinity or anything else that defines other MMOs), I always remember that article, and come to the conclusion that those players are lying to themselves. Even if ArenaNet added raids, I don’t think they would be happy; they would ask for more and more things from their first online world, hoping (secretely, maybe even to themselves) that the game would become an exact copy of the first online world they experienced.

That is never going to happen. And it should not happen, either – the main strength of GW2 is how it’s different from other MMOs. Asking it to become a copy of the classic MMO model is basically asking the game to fail.

Only if you assume the raiding platform to be exactly identical to the traditional systems. A raid was awesome due to the challenging mechanics requiring good execution and coordination of abilities, the lame part was the gear grinding aspect to slow you down…. I don’t see why you can’t have a raid system that offers the good aspects while not having (or having less of) the bad aspects.

I think the elephant in the room is not so much raiding capacity as it is encounter design and context…. Raids perhaps allow for a greater room of scope in what a group can and should do compared to a 5 man, but I question the current combat system’s ability to really have the complexity in an encounter like a WoW raid. Not saying it can’t or maybe it might need some minor tweaks…. but I haven’t really seen a solid example of a fight through coordinated class synergies.

Say what you will about WoW and trinity, but there was variety of tanking/dps/healing. A pally healer is very different from a druid healer or a shaman healer. A druid tank offers significantly different tanking options than a warrior or prot pally and even then the gear selection isn’t always simply one set (esp. for warrior tanks that have to maximize certain types of mitigation to rage-generation depending on the respective encounters). I just don’t necessarily see that level of complexity in this game, though I think it could exist. Maybe it’s because most of that complexity in builds, synergy, and gear is optional in GW2 whereas WoW made it more of a necessity in order to win (at least up to Sunwell…. I’m not sure how post-BC WoW got easier).

As one of the folks who has an account and rarely plays…. I’ve mainly just been waiting for the changes to come over the next few months and see what’s what.

For awhile, I was at that point in the game where the only real dynamic aspect of the game (from a progression or even pseudo-progression standpoint) is WvW…. because I can help conquer an entire map, go to sleep, come back on and see we’re locked at our default spawn point (or something like that). With respect to PvE, it feels too static and unrewarding.

However, if WvW is really the only thing that’s moderately interesting, then I just play Planetside 2 because it has a significantly better WvW system.

I’d have to say that fire elemental in Metrica Province is the hottest character in game…. but we gotta whip out the Asuran Thermometer to be sure.

I think it’s important to understand the argument being presented when any title wins GOTY that isn’t an award given by peers in the industry. IGN and all these reviewers are basically like Variety magazine, the NYT, and other film critics… and while they may have good reviews, their awards (if they even give one out) don’t hand a candle to the Oscars. And in the Oscars…. only actors can only vote for best actor, only directors for best director, etc. (with the exceptions being foreign films and documentaries which are determined by a special panel and everyone getting to vote for best picture).

A more interesting piece by IGN or any of these critics would be taking what they consider the top games and giving us an really in depth piece of why they think a title is GOTY. Personally, I think GW2 on paper is a solid GOTY choice, in execution it’s not all that great, but good enough… Given it’s scope, it gets some breaks for not being a flawlessly delivered product. In many ways, that’s why Skryim took away so many awards last year, even the more “coveted” peer-based awards. I definitely thought Skyward Sword was a much better game, but it’s scope paled in comparison to Skyrim… and that is why, it failed to take home many GOTYs.

Easy or short? Cause a legendary takes a lot of time acquiring things mostly through easy activities. Even exotics are easy to get but take a significantly shorter amount of time. Non-grindy games allow you the ability to get things through challenges that maybe short in time, but hard in execution…. so it takes a long time to get depending on how fast you can learn and be skillful. Why legendary requirements are what they are have no place whatsoever in a game that touts itself as being skill-based and non-traditional from other MMOs.

@ Rustypipes

Nitpick the most unimportant parts of what I said, which how people define the terms and not what the actual message is stating…. but in a game that touts itself as breaking from the bonds of traditional MMOs and being all about skill, it’s interesting the the most sought after skins prescribe more the to traditional methods of grinding/farming whatever you wanna call it rather than getting them through skill.

Let me ask you something…. gift of stealth, would you prefer to get that through a challenging skill-based type minigame involving stealth or gather: 500 ori ore (to turn into ingots), 100 onyx lodestones, 250 orrian truffles, and 500 CoE tokens (for the gift of knowledge)?

Winning doesn’t necessarily have to be final. In a good horizontal progression system, the actions/inactions of your server affect the server (accounting for pop count). Maybe by consistently doing well in WvW and having a good density of participation in events scattered throughout all the maps, your Tyria falls under a “Golden Age” that prompts different changes (like better RNG/xp-gain, whatever) as well as events (maybe they get tougher yet more rewarding or change entirely)… The flipside being a server that barely participates and does poorly in WvW and confines itself to a few events in a few maps is more in a “Dark Ages” where things are also drastically different. In a sense, winning depending on your server could be continuing the “Golden Age”, getting your server to the “Golden Age” or pulling your server out of the “Dark Ages”.

PowerCat.5738:

The other problem is bias. Players want everything easily.

That in itself is a bias and a huge stereotype… I’ve always been a player that prefers skill = rewards, especially in a game that’s supposed to be skill-based, rather than farm/grind and you shall get what you want.

^^ Those who are trying to accomplish gear/skin goals (whether dungeons, fractals, open world, etc)… It is really the player’s fault, in a skill-based game, that these goals prescribe more to the traditional MMO styles of acquisition and not through a series of skill-based challenges? And it’s not just these people complaining, there are WvW complaints, PvP complaints… I know Anet isn’t sitting on their hands, but I’m sure most of these complainers would like to enjoy their game now rather than later.

Facepunch.5710:

CreativeAnarchy.6324:

If I’m having fun, I win.

This. It seems to me that many complaints about grinding or whatever are coming from people who say they feel forced to do this or that, and it isn’t fun. No one is forcing you to get on the hamster wheel, guys. Go play in your water dish, or make a tunnel under your bedding, if that’s what you prefer.

Yes because if people are trying to play they way they’d like to play and Anet is making that style of play absolutely maddening, then it’s clearly the fault of the player. Interesting how “we don’t make grindy games” means “we don’t make [forced] grind games [, but optional stuff is perfectly subject to having grinds]”…. because in a game that’s supposed to promote skill over the traditional MMO means of winning, it’s funny how the most sought after items prescribe to the most traditional MMO methods of getting them.

The law of large numbers concept applies here…. Individually, some may end up having a better success rate than others, but on aggregate the chance still hashes out to a 1/3 chance doing the 1 clover recipe.

Lorana.2468:

tbh they never really did, the only part about them that felt right was the 100% world exploration.

Absolutely agree. I liked the idea of getting a legendary through a test of your PvE completion and prowess with the dungeon requirement, 100% map explore, even some WvW badges (not 500)…. The 250 of this and 100 of that at their respective RNG rates shows nothing other than spending a lot of time (directly or indirectly) farming.

Also, there’s no real backstory to any of them… the only thing that makes them legendary is that the animators gave them a different color of text and a little more love than other weapon (and I guess now they have some stat boosts). Say what you will about WoW legendary items being equally RNG, but they all had a backstory in the lore and were worth getting. Some even had quests/events linked to them (Thunderfury, Atiesh, and Ashbringer (pre-Wrath although nobody was ever able to create it in the real servers) come to mind).

Not sure I agree with increased precursor drop rates…. rather, make them account bound and make a mystic forge recipe that guarantees it’s creation. This change really doesn’t alter the fact that everything else will be low RNG and high cost (it may even jack up the cost since demand for everything else will increase).

1 hour in CoF, CoE, HotW or any other dungeon that offers lvl 68+ rare armor pieces for 30 tokens isn’t a waste of time (assuming you can do at least one path per hour). You’re guaranteed 2 rares that you can salvage (unless they fixed this) on top of drops…. you also get a lot more coin than in fractals; fractals just has better loot potential.

Not being forced to grind isn’t the same as “we don’t make grindy games”. Sure the grinds are entirely optional, but if my goal is to get 100 lodestones…. that takes a long time regardless of playing “the way Anet wants me to” or not; getting to that goal over a long duration vs. a faster duller method doesn’t change the fact that it’s a grindy requirement.

If a drop rate for said lodestone is say 1% and there was no DR, it would take nearly 10,000 kills to get that. Even if I spread that out over time, what the kitten kind of endgame pursuit demands this many kills for one of several components other than a grindy game? Oh just use the TP?… So basically I’m “buying” my way out of grinding? Which means that there is, in fact, grinding?… but this game isn’t grindy? Oh this grind isn’t as bad as other games? Ok, so we’re acknowledging that this game does, in fact, have a grind? Which, again… “we dont’ make grindy games”?

A non-grindy game has goals like to get item X requires me to beat encounters A, B, and C…. it may take time to learn and execute, but at least it’s an effort devoted to mastering content rather than an effort devoted into simply spending an exorbitant amount of time (whether that time goes towards directly getting that goal or indirectly getting it). Not saying non-grindy games don’t have some repeat, but there’s a difference between having to do something a dozen times and having to do something a hundred+ times.

well all classes do all three, some just have a different flavor or emphasis over others…

damage is usually direct or condition (via bleeds, burns, poison, confusion). There’s supposed to be pros/cons to the two, but sofar direct > condition in most people’s view.

support can be a whole variety of stuff like providing boons, putting certain conditions on an enemy (like blind, daze, weaken, etc.), or utilities like reflect walls and condition removals and such.

control is what it means, CC…. slows, immobilizes, and knockdowns/interrupts.

Heinel.6548:

Bruno Sardine.2907:

I prefer promoting people to play how they want rather than punishing them, especially when it comes to gear decisions. There’s already a pro and con to the mf-stat on the part of the player, so why add more cons to it?

There isn’t any more con to be added. The system is already at as bad as it gets, save for another impossible loot table. The compromise improves the system and makes it social. That’s all I care about in a MULTI-PLAYER game.

My comment was in response to what was said above it where if I had to choose between flagging a player for wearing MF or making MF a stat that can have party benefits, I’d take the party benefit route; it would add a pro to MF rather than a con.

In response to your pirate rune comment, that has less to do with MF and more to do with the fact that the rate at which gold drops far exceeds loot drops for mats. If anything, MF serves as a mechanism to provide more supply of mats, thereby deflating the value of them.

I prefer promoting people to play how they want rather than punishing them, especially when it comes to gear decisions. There’s already a pro and con to the mf-stat on the part of the player, so why add more cons to it?

To addendum to this… I also think that a straight average mf calculation doesn’t work. D3 did this originally and it totally killed party play (on top of other mechanisms like the drastic increases in health per party member), so you need to do something “extra” in the group MF calculation or you make the stat just as trivial as the flagging method.

^^ well for one, there are tons of parts of the puzzle where you can’t make the jump if you’re in combat…. if the entire puzzle is subject to encountering combat, why are there parts that require you to not be in combat? Hard to get to someone with a longer range than you if getting closer requires you to jump gaps further than what a toon can jump while in combat. I also think you can have a more engaging PvP-type puzzle that actively gets people to fight without it being campers vs. camp-crashers.

Porky.5021:

I think if the devs wanted people to freely and without risk complete this jumping puzzle they would have put it somewhere besides the PVP zone.

I mean it’s also possible that the JP was conceptually a good idea yet terrible in execution…. like basically so many other things in this game. I like the idea, personally, but I think it could use a slightly better design overall.

Yes, the 42% crit rate and 34% increased dmg only applies if I’m using my rifle which I rarely use as I rotate between kits for various support and dmg purposes (rifle is really more for CC purposes)…. But if I’m using my rifle, after 100 shots the increased crit damage at the 42% rate has basically done the same amount of damage as 14.3 additional regular attacks. The longer the fight, the more noticeable the damage is (assuming your stop-clocking it). If you’re farming the bosses for silver drops (since you added that in as I was responding) this becomes noticeable over a decent stretch of time, yet you’re adding more to the problem of inflating prices rather than meeting demand with items.

Though it is true that if everyone follows this MF route then things slow down, but if people are not downing/dying often and getting awesome loots then who cares if we all have mf and it’s taking a little longer?

Like I said above, have a group MF system based on the highest value of any player + the average of the other players (for groups greater than 3, less than 3 just use highest MF value). Maybe it doesn’t have to work quite like this, but magic find can be a handy personal and party stat if it’s designed well.

^^^ Except that berserker only works more effectively the higher your crit rate is…. for an engineer, even if you’re specc’d mostly firearms you have a 42% chance to crit in full exotic knights, berserker, or explorer gear (36% if you use a kit). The bump I get in dps matters if the fight goes on for a very long duration and even then doesn’t shorten the fight by anything noticeable…. So I can choose to be able to farm faster in the long run or have greater returns in the long run. Factoring in DR, returns > faster killing.

wintermute.4096:

It does not matter that a skilled player in green mf gear can outperform an unskilled player in full exotics. What matters is that every single player will always perform worse in MF gear, than he himself could do in “real” gear, hampering the effectiveness of the group for his own personal gain.

That’s not even remotely true… The only difference between knight and explorer is toughness vs. mf and in no way impacts my dps. Unless I’m getting downed excessively, then perhaps my mf is hampering the group because I really need more survivability that apparently my skills (both actual skill and profession skills) aren’t providing.

Basically, you complaining about me using mf when I’m not being a detriment to the group is no better than elitists who demand certain builds/gear without even knowing how the player plays his/her toon.

So maybe do a scaling mechanism where group MF is determined by the highest MF any one individual player has + the average of the other players (if it’s just two people, then just go with highest mf). So even the guys who are making themselves more of a “liability” are taking that risk by providing the group a loot bump. There’s also an incentive to group because you can kill faster and take on more encounters without losing MF but rather gaining it.

Mars.6319:

RedBaron.6058:

I play this game for 3 months now, have been part of hundreds of parties and the dialogue in party chat never went beyond “Hi..”.

This game is based on solo tasks or group zerg tasks that do not need any coordination at all…when you get a party you just spam your attacks and kill the strong mobs you are not able to kill solo.

As per the need to belong to a guild, well I never felt that need because there are no guild tasks/objectives/perks to achieve. Pretty interesting stuff for a game that calls itself “Guild Wars 2”.

How did you get past the swamp fractal?

It’s interesting that a lot of the coordination-type things to beat an encounter don’t involve a synergy between skills of varying professions. People argue the depth of combat, but when the depth is entirely optional in order to beat an encounter… it kind of begs the question as to really “how deep” is the combat?

Gord.8654:

The JP does not impact the PvP game. Since there is no tactical advantage or score associated in that area, camping it is greifing. If you want people like me to shut up, put it in a keep or tower so then we do have to fight for it and contribute to WvW or make badges available in a PvE zone.

It kinda does though based on it’s rewards you can get daily (and within a relatively short amount of time)… I’m not saying I like the camping, but it’s not griefing. The problem isn’t so much the players’ reaction to the puzzle design as it is the puzzle design that may not have really considered the PvP aspects of it.

Honestly, I think it’d be more fun/balanced if the jumping puzzle was more like a Mad King’s Clocktower type of puzzle so that you can’t camp in one spot in the puzzle forever (though feasibly you could always wait for the reset and jump your way back to the spot). So as folks are mad dashing their way to the top, there’s at least one decently sized intersecting point where the opposing sides meet up on a platform and just slug it out (adjusting the timer to consider fighting and number of players from all sides trying to make their way up). Also, make the puzzle actually jump-able while in combat? I think that’s my biggest gripe with the current BGJP.

Oldgrimm.8521:

what if gw2 will have a new platform of gaming, a full virtual reality console,

(like sword art online anime), wherein you can literally taste, smell, feel pain and pleasure, and what not

would that be the ultimate breakthrough for gaming industry?

ps. some of my friends lost interest in gaming because of that anime ^^,

Feel? Given the nature of skimpy outifts and busty women…. Not sure how much “questing” would get done, if you know what I mean.

In fairness to Oscars, it’s a series of voting from your peers…. and not just every member of the academy, but directors nominate directors, actors nominate actors, etc. The only exceptions to that rule is Best Picture in which all members can vote and best Foreign, Animated, and Documentary are determined by a special panel. It’s not so much an award determined by critics and viewers as it is professionals in the industry.

Video gaming has maybe 4-5 awards somewhat like the Oscars… and as far as I’m aware those awards have yet to be given out.

ZaiTh.6378:

Name 1 thing in GW2 that has a great reward vs the Risk, Name me 1.

The mystic forge…. hahahha. FEAR THE WRATH OF ZORMOS.

Not that gear selection has to a be a big component, but I was just illustrating how complexity isn’t just some optional caveats to an encounter… it’s actually very critical to beating it.

MKJoker.8372:

Lmfao..

Guild Wars 2 won award for best mmo of the year.

It also placed 2nd for most disappointing game of the year?

I no understand.

Yeah that’s a little odd…. I guess it walked the razor’s edge and just happened to fall in the “winner” category?

I feel like they pigeon toe you more than really open it up…. With so few skills available, I’d almost prefer a system closer to D3 where you have skills and you can pick between 4-5 ways to specialize each skill. But that’s semi-wishful thinking since it would involve an overhaul of the skill system.

Stark.1350:

I’d like to keep this thread positive please. Make your own topic if you have a complaint. Thanks!

Then follow GW2 on twitter or post a message on their FB page… posting something in the forums, especially in the general discussion page, makes it subject to discussion regardless of the viewpoint.

Just so this isn’t all ad hominem and speaking from my high horse…. I have no problem with GW2 winning awards, but as I’ve stated I have a problem in how the award is determined since the link posted paints this game as good merely from one aspect. If I’m someone who never heard of GW2 and looked at this article, the only thing I would get is “so this game is good because it has good graphics/art direction”? Gamespot’s review is woefully inadequate at describing why it considers this game as GOTY.

It’s not only helpful to have a well rounded case of why this game is the best of 2012 so that consumers understand why this game is so good, but it helps Anet understand what it did well/decent/poorly and it helps competition to understand what it should consider next time if they want to be GOTY. Not sure how saying something is the best because it’s the flashiest says anything that pushes the industry in a positive direction.

Gehenna.3625:

On the top of that page it says this:

The following features have been mentioned by ArenaNet staff and are expected to be part of future content updates.

Please note the word expected.

^^ This is actually worth highlighting given the wordplay snafu that they played in the past with the whole Ascended move.

Silentstorm.7531:

You guys do realize most mmorpg’s you only use 5 buttons anyway. Take wow and rift for example. You may have 100 skills but you at the end of the day in fighting a boss. Only use on average 3-7 buttons if that. Only thing GW2 did was get rid of the useless skills. Say like If you had Lightning Bolt 1. Then when you hit max level you get Grand Lightning. Which is just Lightning Bolt 1 max level.

Don’t confuse depth with a over abundance a million buttons. I’ll give you another classic example. I play rift a cleric in the game. Rotation Bolt of Judgement,Vex, Sanction Heretic etc..The new max level came along BOJ was replaced with another bolt. Vex was replaced with another spells named scourge. What really happen there is the old skills got replace but you still have them. Which gives you a false thinking that you have a lot of choices. Almost every mmo is like that. Like I said GW2 is the first game not to smoke and mirrors it.

Umm… There was actually a great level of complexity in WoW raids not only from a “learning the tactics” standpoint, but even from a build/gearing standpoint (at least prior to Wrath o’ LK). It wasn’t just sitting there spamming taunts and aggro generators and heals and dps. Do you use a warrior tank, a prot pally, or a bear druid? If I’m a warrior tank, what’s the right mix of mitigation to have while generating the rage I need to actually tank? I’m a holy/disc hybrid priest (which in itself is a build choice of mana efficiency over powerful heals), since I don’t have circle of healing, what do I need to do to compensate without absolutely draining my mana pool within a minute? What’s my healing rotation since using max rank heals all the time is also going to zap away my mana bar (which varies depending on your healing assignment)?

Really, there a very few fights in GW2 that demand this level of thought. I do like the more action-style and pacing, but most encounters don’t really cause me to think about my setup (except when I play my necro, I might swap epidemic out for something a little more useful against a single target encounter or well of darkness for well of power since the fight might demand more condition removal rather than a condition that gets nerfed to oblivion against a boss).

For me, I get a little worked up on how a GOTY, or really any subjective award, is determined… and when a fairly trusted source for consumers uses “perty colors and pixel arrangement”, or anything short of a holistic approach as their argument for why they award GW2, or any game, as the game of year, I find it lazy on the part of the critics and even a little insulting to the nominees and winner, who put much more time into other aspects of the game than art direction and graphics (though they are important pieces).

If gamespot had presented a set of criteria that deeply evaluated games from a variety of angles and determined GW2 as the winner, I’d recognize the accomplishment even if I didn’t entirely agree with the decision.

Honestly, I originally thought the way this game was going F2P was the cash shop of boosters and little add-on things + paying for future content (DLC if you will). I’m not sure if I’d pay for like Halloween and Wintersday even if they were really low price. If Lost Shore was larger, like an actual viable zone filled with DE’s, karma vendors for LS-specific recipes and a story/explore dungeon for cool karka-inspired skins, I might pay $5-$10 for it. If the idea (for Anet) is to earn revenue, I’d rather just pay upfront (via a sub or content packages) and play however I want to than feel nickle n’ dimed as I play. I think that was the biggest turnoff for me in D3…. the way the game mechanics were setup so that you kept getting nudged to use the AH (and ultimately the RMAH); D2 had a black market, but you could beat the game without having all pro-gear and not all gear necessarily came from highest difficulty or act. Yeah, GW2 isn’t a gear game where you need pro gear, but the point is if I want to run 100 meph runs all day, that was my choice… wanting to farm at something for hours should be my choice, but I’ve been deprived of that decision cause big brother says “no grind for you bro”.

I would hardly say Gamespot is accolades from “the industry”. British Academy of Film and Television Arts, Academy of Interactive Entertainment, Academy of Interactive Arts & Sciences, The Game Developers Conference… These organizations/events are actually comprised of people who work on video games; most of these entities require certain criteria to be eligible for membership/participation. I’m more interested in what the actual industry people view as the best game (of the year and respective genres) for 2012.

Also keep in mind there’s at least 40+ critic and editor awards (not including reader’s choice, voter’s choice, and sites that award based on aggregating reviews)…. Gamespot might matter here in the states, but Eurogamer UK is a bigger deal across the pond; what viewpoint is more/less valid to a developer trying to produce something globally successful?

Blaeys.3102:

And grats to GW2. I personally agree with this decision by Gamespot. This game is awesome.

So if you agree with Gamespot’s decision, then basically you’re saying that graphics and art direction alone determine a great game (considering their judgement says nothing about any of the other elements of the game). No offense, but I’m sure you like the game for more than it’s prettiness; if anything, the gamespot justification for giving the award to GW2 does Anet a gross disservice of all the labor they put into everything else that makes this game great.

In some ways, I understand why GW2 wins, or stands to win, a lot of awards…. Just like in 2011 when Skyrim took many awards. The undertaking of these projects are massive and both were decently executed (some parts much worse than other parts)… but if size & “shiny” > execution & fundamentals, then how do any smaller (in scope and/or budget) projects win? How award recipients are decided is important because if the award giver is just “yay you get a gold star for all your hard work”, then the industry learns nothing other than grandiose and tons of pop is greater than substance…

TL:DR Awards that view a game more holistically and pit it against other games is better for the industry.