Guild Wars 2

I signed on today and accessed my guild’s bank only to see that one of the members vandalized the titles (under each of the sections.) My immediate thought was to check the privileges and see who could have done it, but after some experimenting, I found that it is not an option.

My next thought was to check the logs to see who did it, but it turns out that it isn’t recorded anywhere. There is literally no way to keep this from happening.

Could we please get this as a permission? Or tie it into edit “message of the day”? Either one will work, but it’s frustrating not being able to do anything about it. :/

Wait, people are really complaining about this?

You do realize that this thread had over 3000 posts, 90% of which were page long essays and that A-Net needs to read and discuss everything that’s said internally? You could have a team of fifty people devoted to this and still not be able to keep up with every post individual post and discuss every idea in the time-frame and depth that you all seem to want.

Sometimes the ideal scenario cannot be reached. A-Net can’t just magic into existence a dozen new employees devoted to replying to one single thread. I’d say that Allie did an admirable job with what was put in her lap, and that she talked about the major issues and the developers’ thoughts on them quite extensively.

TLDR: This community is spoiled, and unrealistically expects individual replies to every post they make.

VodCom.6924:

VOLKON.1290:

CaptainVanguard.4925:

I’m calling it now, the Pale Tree gets destroyed.

One problem with that… Sylvari would be doomed to extinction. Without the Pale Tree, no new Sylvari.

+1

The Pale Tree can’t be destroyed for it is an important piece of personnal story -> This has to remain unaffected by the living world. It can be attacked (no problem with this idea), but it can never be destroyed for good.

Don’t be so sure…at some point, in order to make a truly engaging story, some important characters are going to have to die, even if that means some inconsistencies with the personal story. There are lots of ways that they could archive the personal story or modify it (or some combination of the two). Nothing is safe; anything could happen.

I think I agree with those who say that guesting needs to stay- its pro outweigh the cons from what I’ve seen.

The two main suggestions thus far have been to adjust scaling and revamp the overflow system; both of these have merit.

Overflow Revamp: By changing overflow to show the number of people already there before phasing in, people can know what they’re getting into before they warp in, and help to get their full group in on the event. Perhaps we could have the over-full servers’ overflows connect back to the more empty servers’ main maps? This would help fill the empty servers somewhat. The downside is that we would still undoubtedly have empty maps on many servers, and hostility could break out when a large guild or group claims ‘ownership’ of an overflow.

Scaling: If scaling happens, it would have to be delicately done so as not to trivialize the content. If an event is allowed to scale too low (say, 5 people at each of the jungle worm’s heads) it would easier to coordinate, and probably lead to people preferring small groups. I think that scaling can be done right, maybe capping in the ballpark of 40-50 people. The mechanics, and the number of adds would need to be scaled back (something like requiring 10 or 15 barrels instead of 20 at Cobalt, and removing some of the eggs and husks, for example). There would probably also need to be significant health scaling, but that is just a numbers game, which shouldn’t be altogether too difficult.

I like the constructive thinking in this thread so far. What about these ideas do you like/not like?

There are ways around this, but each one has baggage:
1. You could join a mega-guild like TTS. The problems here include the built-in limitation on size of a guild, the time commitment that such a guild requires, and the representation requirements of such a guild in conjunction with a smaller guild that the player is already a part of, and probably does not want to abandon.
2. You can try to teach your group the mechanics…every time. Complications here include the propensity for people to not listen, and the high chance for people to not understand. It also doesn’t help that all of your efforts feel wasted when your group fails, since you’ll inevitably need to explain it all over again.
3. You can try to piggy-back on a mega-guild. Consequences here include inconveniencing the mega-guild by taking up space and being less coordinated than them, finding the mega-guild’s overflow in the first place, and just feeling wholly unsatisfied when you finish because it was their achievement…not yours.

Something is wrong here, and it all comes back to two factors:
1. Guesting leads to a zerging mindset where 3-4 servers in a region are the place to go for large-scale content.
2. The open-world nature of events means that cross-server matchmaking is impossible.

Without changing one of these, I do not see the situation improving. Either we remove or limit guesting to keep people on their native servers, or we remove mega-encounters from the open-world and implement a complex matchmaking system that fosters communities outside of the server communities for major events. The other option is to leave things as they are, which, as we’ve seen, is not what most players want.

This has come up in numerous other topics, but I don’t think there’s been a topic devoted to this yet. I’m sure you’re aware of it one way or another at this point: Either you are part of a server that just seems dead, or you’re part of one of the servers that is so overstuffed that your overflow’s overflow has an overflow. This is bad on both sides of the coin, especially given the scope and difficulty of the new encounter. Let’s look at this from both perspectives:

Low Population Servers: Low-pop servers are not inherently bad. I enjoy being native to one since it means that I know more people from my server and recognize names more often- it’s like living in a small town, walking down the street, and recognizing a fair portion of people, and this is fine for most content. Dungeons take 5 people, and are inherently cross-server through LFG, and most world bosses are doable with a group of 15+ fairly decent players, which is more than enough for any guild to muster. If you have significantly more than 15 people, the boss scales up (albeit poorly), and at least puts up some semblance of a fight. It’s not difficult content, but it serves its purpose.

Mega-encounters are where it becomes difficult. Sure, when the content is first released, you can get a fair showing out of your server (maybe 80-90 people show up to see the new stuff), and that’s enough to make an attempt and see the mechanics, but after that initial attempt people guest to other servers where there are more people so that they have a higher success chance. As people leave, the low-pop servers’ population for these events plummets, and it becomes a waste to even show up to these events. These events don’t scale, so the 30-40 people who might stick around quickly see how pointless it is, so even these people have to either give up or also guest away. While this does hurt a server’s morale and break the community, it doesn’t block off content because guesting lets you experience it on another server, but this also has consequences to the larger servers.

High Population Servers: Discounting guesting, higher population servers would have plenty of people to attempt mega-events, and would undoubtedly kill them eventually, but guesting complicates this. The refugees from the low-population servers are looking for places that they can enjoy the content, so they flood these servers. The main maps become full and overflows are formed, then the overflow becomes full and another overflow is formed…and then that overflow becomes full as well, and so on.

This appears to be okay at a glance. Maps are filling, there are plenty of people in each map to try the mega-encounter, and everything is good. But then you realize that these maps aren’t typically populated with people who know each other. They are populated with random people from any number of servers and guilds who have never met, and once the map is hard-capped, friends are left outside of the map, splitting friends and guilds. The group tries to fight the encounter and gives a good show of it. They learn personally from the fight, but here’s the kicker: because of the way overflow is designed, this group will not be matched together again. The group will go their separate ways until the next boss encounter where they will find themselves in a different overflow with a different group who has not had the same experience and the same shared opportunity to learn. It removes the sense of community, and creates this feeling of a great big ‘other.’ Comments like "I hope our group is good this time’ or “These guys don’t know what they’re doing” run rampant because people don’t know each other. The natural server communities are gone, so it’s like walking into a region-wide potluck where you don’t know who you’ll end up with, and people feel alienated.

Vol.7601:

Crespus.7405:

I still say that the Pale Tree is going to snap like a toothpick when Mordremoth kicks it over.

Mmm…maybe Mordremoth will awaken in that zone and then end up travelling all the way to LA, leaving behind it some entrails (kind of like Kralk and the branded ground you see on the map), and then proceed to destroy LA and quickly gtfo.

And then season 2 starts, and we will have to fight it’s champion.

I would be ecstatic if either of these happened. I’m just ready for our new lizard-friend.

I still say that the Pale Tree is going to snap like a toothpick when Mordremoth kicks it over.

Can anyone super-impose this on the map of Tyria from her lair? We might see some connection to the probes.

Serromus Jakta.3987:

That dragon painting looks similar to this concept art. I think perhaps that this dragon may be Mordremoth, look at the head patterns of both pictures, they both have these wavy figure patterns on their heads,it makes sense somehow.

Could the tendrils in the dragon’s lower body be roots? It seems reasonable that a plant dragon could be rooted in place rather than mobile. He could even stay underground when dormant/pre-awakened, rising/growing out of the ground on awakening. This would explain Scarlet’s drill- she either is going for his roots, or is looking to reach him before he awakens.

Mad Queen Malafide.7512:

Fine, I merely pointed out that you’re wrong on several things, and the lore community knows for sure these things are wrong. This hypothesis has been proposed several times in the lore forum, and shot down for these and many other reasons.

You can discuss it all you want, nothing wrong with that, but I’m afraid it has already been disproved by many other people besides me.

And you are welcome to think that.. Just like I’m welcome to think that you are wrong, and that the claims that I’ve seen from you (and others) do not disprove this theory in the least. I respect your opinion- can you at least have the decency to recognize that your opinion is not the only viable one?

PinkFrog.4567:

I’m sure that this has been said before, but wouldn’t it make more sense when Scarlet would actually try to wake Mordremoth rather than kill the tree?

She’s maybe convinced that the 6th dragon is necessary to purge the world or whatever it is delusional geniuses think.

In any case, thats what the probes are for, maybe.

I’m not sure what Scarlet would get by waking Mordremoth; we really don’t have a reason to think she’s on the dragons’ side (if they even have a collective side) yet.

Resk.6412:

Look, the fact of the matter is this: Whether you’re doing it in the Lore forum or you’re doing it here, all anyone is doing is putting out theories. As we’ve seen in this thread and in the lore forum, these theories have evidence to both support and work against those theories. The key word being THEORIES. That’s what makes this whole process fun.

Is it possible that everything in this thread is wrong? Yes. Is it possible that the “overlords” of the Lore forum have it wrong too? Also yes. So lets stop with the nonsense of whose theories are more logical or true and stick to the “what if” that makes this whole process so interesting.

I absolutely couldn’t agree more. I think it’s come to the point where we’re no longer arguing over the theory itself, and are mincing words over details. I believe my theory is sound, but by no means absolute. I also understand where others who disagree are coming from, even if I do not agree with them. I have done a fair bit of research, and tried to lay out my thoughts as clearly as possible for all to enjoy. I think that further argumentation over the lore at this point has stopped being constructive, and is closing in on inflammatory.

Feel free to continue to comment about the theory and its ramifications, but I don’t intend to get back into heated point-by-point debate over it.

Fenrir.3609:

Wanze.8410:

LordByron.8369:

Fenrir.3609:

LordByron.8369:

Ensign.2189:

Why do you think flipping items raises prices?

math!
25 characters…..

No. I don’t mean to be rude but you don’t seem to know what you are talking about.

Foe every flipper that buy and resell a good, there is a player that has to pay his profit + one more transaction taxes…

This is where you are wrong. The regular player does not have to pay the flippers profit, as i dont see why the regular player wasnt able to acquire the same item for the same price at the same time as the flipper.

He doesn’t understand that if you take the non limit order option (i.e. you fast buy/sell at the market price), then you are paying for time premium and zero risk.

Whilst those picking up that potential additional profit (spread) are getting paid for taking on that time premium and risk.

Anyone can post limit orders and not pay the spread. If they do so they have to wait to see if they get filled and also wait to see if the market moves against them, at which point they need to relist and pay the TP tax again. Time and risk.

Most are lazy and want an instant sale/purchase with zero risk of the market moving against them. Hence they pay the spread to those that ARE willing to wait and ARE willing to take the risk of the market moving against them and the need to relist.

This sums it up perfectly. Flippers take the profit that the instant-sellers/buyers could have made, and in doing so pay an extra tax which serves as a gold-removal for the game.

Suggestions go in the forums that they apply to now.

This means that if you have a suggestion about a the living story, go to the living story forms. Is it about the trading post? Go to the trading post forums. If it doesn’t fit any forums well, then it can go in the general discussion.

Mad Queen Malafide.7512:

No they are not. They are dragon cultists. They directly worship Jormag. The Nightmare Court and the Inquest are independent groups who do not serve any elder dragon (that we know of).

The Sons of Svanir have their own section of Hoelbrak…I’d say they’re fairly well integrated into Norn society.

Mad Queen Malafide.7512:

Except that they are not spreading dragon corruption. They are drawing Sylvari into nightmare, but we have NO indication that they serve the goal of any Elder Dragon. They are an independent faction as far as we know. And nothing points otherwise. I’m simply pointing out that you can’t inject dragon corruption into a faction that is clearly not spreading any.

You are presuming the exact thing we are arguing over. Your argument is ‘they are not dragon minions because they are not spreading dragon corruption’ and that ‘they are not spreading dragon corruption because they aren’t dragon minions.’ We know very little about Mordremoth’s flavor of corruption (because, as you have said, we don’t know much about him, let alone if that is his real name), and we don’t know much about the origins of the Nightmare, which is a form of corruption- dragon or otherwise. It seems to follow that there is perfectly good reason to suggest that they could be linked.

Mad Queen Malafide.7512:

You call hundreds of years close?

Source; http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Elder_Dragon
Primordus first stirred in 1078, and the Dwarves encountered the Great Destroyer, his Champion. This is the first recorded dragon activity since the end of the previous cycle 10,000+ years ago.
The most recent awakening was Kralkatorrik, who awoke in 1320, which puts a span of 250 years between the two farthest known dragon awakenings.

Source: http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Pale_Tree
This claims that the Pale Tree’s seed was planted “over 250 years ago.” With present day Tyria in GW2 being 1327, this puts the time of the Pale Tree’s seed being found some time prior to 1077, just one year before Primordus stirred. Please keep in mind that a dragon does not need to fully awaken for its champions/minions to be active. While “hundreds of years,” as you put it is a stretch, it is not clear what the exact timing of events is, but even if this occurred more than 100 years before Primordus’s stirring, we have many dragons who have awakened/first showed activity in more than a 100 year interval. Yes, when we look at a 10,000+ year cycle, this is astonishingly close.

Mad Queen Malafide.7512:

No, that’s your only answer. At this point we have no indication what Scarlet’s goals are. We know she is eager to learn various sciences. But we see no indication of goals regarding the Sylvari or the Pale Tree. Scarlet brought the Nightmare Court and the Krait together, not to pursue the goal of the Nightmare Court clearly, whose goal has always been the corruption of the Pale Tree. Scarlet shows no signs of compassion, or empathy towards the goals of the factions she teams up with. And she shows no interest in the Sylvari or the Pale Tree. She seems way more interested in magic and technology. If we had to guess at any goal for Scarlet, I think we should look in the direction of the things she has been pursuing up to this point.

I’ve actually shown you that we do have proof of her motivations. “It was then Ceara saw the thorn vine. It emerged from the roots at the base of the tree and began to climb, wrapping itself around the trunk and scoring the bark with its dusty red barbs. Green-black ichor oozed from these wounds, and the great tree shuddered” This is part of her vision. She saw this thorn vine encircle the tree. We lack the rest of the vision, but this image made enough of an impact on her that she modeled herself after this scarlet briar and became “Scarlet Briar.” You cannot deny this symbolism; even taken out of the context of this theory, it shows that Scarlet means to harm the Pale Tree.

Blanger.3162:

Phadde.7362:

>>>>>>> Best Thread Ever <<<<<<<

Agreed…Thanks to the OP for taking the time to lay out his theories, it’s a interesting read.

I’m glad you all enjoyed the read! If nothing else, it’s always fun to speculate on these things!

Mad Queen Malafide.7512:

The nightmare court is a faction within Sylvari society, just as the Inquest is a faction among the Asura. They may both be evil, but that does not link them to any Elder Dragon in any way. The Nightmare Court behave quite differently to the Sons of Svanir in almost each and every way. I don’t know how you could claim the opposite. Besides, the Nightmare Court does not corrupt Sylvari, only tempt them to join their cause, and seeks to free them from the shackles of the Pale Tree. They are not like evil dragon cultists, like the Sons of Svanir. Nor do we have any reason to assume they were wispered promises of power from an Elder Dragon.

The Svanir are a faction within Norn society just like the Inquest- that doesn’t prevent them from being corrupted by Jormag- but that’s irrelevant to what I’m saying here, and I’m not linking them to the ED because they are ‘evil.’ If that was the case, I’d say bandits are ED minions too, and that is just ridiculous. And actually, if you play through Twilight Arbor’s story mode, you will notice the Court doing far more than just ‘tempting’ Sylvari. They lock them up in seed pods and torture them, pulling them away from the Dream with pain. (Remember all of the seed pods in this path that you should never open because it’s a 50/50 chance of them being normal Sylvari or NC?) I was saying that they are similar to Svanir in that they are very similar to one of the playable races and they are spreading dragon corruption.

Mad Queen Malafide.7512:

We also know where the seeds were roughly found, which is an area that was guarded by Druids in GW1. The plant-like guardians likely describe oakhearts or druids more than anything dragon related.

This is another plausible theory, but the timing of the seeds is remarkably close to the time of the first dragons’ awakening. It would be a large coincidence if the Sylvari just happened to be created at the same time that the Dragons awoke. This hints that there may be some connection.

Mad Queen Malafide.7512:

It seems a bit presumptuous to speculate on the involvement of an Elder Dragon who isn’t even mentioned in-game, and only really exists in the form of one skill.

He is not mentioned by name, but a sixth dragon is definitely mentioned. And we have many hints that it is a jungle dragon. The name is a name, and it does not affect the theory. We could just as easily call the Jungle Dragon “Skippy” and it wouldn’t change the theory in the least.

Mad Queen Malafide.7512:

What the dragon in that Dream is, is a nightmare. Plain and simple. Something has poisoned the Dream (most likely Nightmare Court), causing this creature to appear. You do not need the involvement of an Elder Dragon to explain it.

It is a nightmare, but it is unclear what the source is. The fact that it takes the form of a plant dragon when there is near certainty of a jungle dragon in-game draws an undeniable connection. An Elder Dragon is not needed to explain this, but it certainly is a plausible theory, and a theory that fits well with all of the other evidence.

Mad Queen Malafide.7512:

That seems extremely presumptuous. What do you base this theory on?

As I said in my original post- predicting exactly how the future patches will play out is an inexact science, and this is absolutely the least important part of the thread. With that said, it would make sense given Scarlet’s vision, her involvement with the Pale Tree, and her (mad) genius according the story thus far.

Mad Queen Malafide.7512:

The focus of the entire “What Scarlet Saw” story, is what made her break away from the Pale Tree, and what made her go insane. At no point does she express outright hatred towards the Pale Tree. None of her attacks so far have been anywhere near Sylvari territory.

Yes she’s insane, but to what level? Are we talking an ‘assault the elderly with a rubber-ducky’ level of crazy, or are we talking a ‘fixated so much on something that I will do anything to accomplish it’ level of crazy. The story, her dialog, and her action suggest the latter. What would she be fixated upon? The only answer we have to that is the Pale Tree and the ‘enslavement’ of the Sylvari.

Mad Queen Malafide.7512:

I would just like to state, on behalf of the lore forum, that the OP’s opening post is already full of gigantic errors, big enough to drive a Dolyak through. And since the rest of his theory is based on these false assumptions, do we really need to point out the flaws? I encourage the OP to visit the lore forum some more.

For example:

• Nightmare Court are not corrupted Sylvari.
• The seeds which guarded the pale tree were not guarded by minions of Mordremoth.
• In fact, Mordremoth’s existence isn’t even officially recognized.
• The dragon during the Sylvari opening is a dream, not an actual dragon.
• We know from the writers, that what Scarlet ‘thinks’ she saw, is probably not true.
• None of Scarlet’s attacks have focused anywhere near the Sylvari region. And the upcoming trailer shows her attacking Lornar’s Pass. If her plan was to attack the Pale Tree, someone should get her a map first. The logical conclusion is that she is not interested in the Pale Tree at all.

I don’t post very often, but I will probably lurk the lore forums a little more often after this. I still hold that this post doesn’t necessarily belong in the lore forums since it ties just as much into game mechanics and the living story as it does lore.

Most of your points are assumptions that are still up for debate:

“Nightmare Court are not corrupted Sylvari. " Where is this proven? It seems even if we take away the Mordremoth/Pale Tree connection, we have very little reason to doubt this, as they not only behave similarly to Svanir, but they also never return from the Nightmare/Corruption. (Just like dragon corruption.)

“The seeds which guarded the pale tree were not guarded by minions of Mordremoth.” As far as I know, the only thing that we know is that a plant creature guarded them when Ronin found them, and Mordremoth is a Jungle Dragon.

“In fact, Mordremoth’s existence isn’t even officially recognized.” Not by name, but we are 99% sure that there is a sixth jungle dragon. Even if this dragon isn’t named Mordremoth, it does not affect this theory.

“The dragon during the Sylvari opening is a dream, not an actual dragon.” It is still a representation of corruption that does not fit any existing dragons. It would be a great coincidence if a plant dragon representing corruption did not correspond in some way to the Jungle Dragon.

“We know from the writers, that what Scarlet ‘thinks’ she saw, is probably not true.” And this theory never disputes this. She can absolutely be wrong about the nature of the Pale Tree’s connection to Mordremoth and the Pale Tree’s intentions while still being right about fact that there IS a connection between the two. It is often the subtle mistakes that are the most damaging.

“None of Scarlet’s attacks have focused anywhere near the Sylvari region. And the upcoming trailer shows her attacking Lornar’s Pass. If her plan was to attack the Pale Tree, someone should get her a map first.”
Scarlet has always been very scattered and omnipresent- that is her nature as a character. The most recent trailer showing an attack on Lornar’s Pass was already confirmed to be a test of her Giant Death Robot™. Its actual purpose is probably nowhere near there, or, as I’ve already said in my original post, its purpose is to make a spectacle of an attack on Lion’s Arch, destroy the Asura Gates, and draw all possible allies there rather than to the Grove.

“The logical conclusion is that she is not interested in the Pale Tree at all.”
Please read my thread. I’ve already shown quite clearly that Scarlet has a vested interest in the Pale Tree. In fact, this is the focus of the entire “What Scarlet Saw” story.

Nilkemia.8507:

Crespus.7405:

Melchior.2135:

Unfortunately, the “Pale Tree = Dragon Minion” theory has been torn to shreds by the Lore forum. At any given time, you can probably find five or six threads there taking turns digging up its corpse to kick it again.

Which is probably why you chose to post it here, where people were less likely to know.

Can you please link a relevant thread? I don’t frequent the lore forums too much, and the reason that I posted this here is because it ties heavily into lore, the living story, and the game mechanics that would be needed to support it. With that said, I have seen one or two topics of this nature float by, and I don’t think I’ve seen a convincing argument for why this couldn’t be the case.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/lore/lore/On-the-Sixth-Elder-Dragon-and-its-corruption/first

Try reading that.

I’ve read through the thread, and Konig does bring up some valid points. Most of it seems to be either focused around details about the Dream of Dreams and Malyck- (whom we know very little about) or the relationship between Elder Dragon and Champion/minion, which is also still quite mysterious, especially given that not all dragons behave the same way, and Mordremoth is the least known of the dragons. With Mordremoth’s supposed domain being ‘life’ and plants, there is good reason to assume that his corruption and relation to his champions/minions would be very different- just as Primordus being of fire and rock means that the production of his minions/champions is very different.

I’m not going to bring specific quotes from that thread into this one because that is this thread and this is this one. I would be 100% glad to talk through these specific issues as they come up in this thread, but it would be an even larger wall-of-text than my original post if I went point-by-point with that thread and responded to it in this one.

+1 All day long.

Devs need to add map-specific rewards to get people into the world and out of Lion’s Arch/Queensdale, and this is by far the best suggestion I’ve seen.

Melchior.2135:

Unfortunately, the “Pale Tree = Dragon Minion” theory has been torn to shreds by the Lore forum. At any given time, you can probably find five or six threads there taking turns digging up its corpse to kick it again.

Which is probably why you chose to post it here, where people were less likely to know.

Can you please link a relevant thread? I don’t frequent the lore forums too much, and the reason that I posted this here is because it ties heavily into lore, the living story, and the game mechanics that would be needed to support it. With that said, I have seen one or two topics of this nature float by, and I don’t think I’ve seen a convincing argument for why this couldn’t be the case.

Resk.6412:

I’ve actually been thinking about something along these lines myself, so its great to see I’m not alone :P

Something that we haven’t really considered yet is some of the additional clues we’ve been given (not sure if these have been brought up yet).

As we saw with Primordus, the champions of the dragons are not always draconic in nature (like Teq, Jor, and Shat). Prim had a destroyer as his champion. Could Mordremoth not have a Wurm – perhaps the one that Scarlet has woken with her thumpers that’s coming in the next update?

Also, I would wager that since we’re getting an Asura in the next update, and the images of Asura Gates in the video (notice the lighting in the shot is identical to what we see in Rata Sum), there’s a plausible chance that we’ll perhaps get to explore some new areas of the Maguuma Jungle (The Falls? Ettin’s Back?), further supporting some of the stuff you pointed out about the Pale Tree and its origins.

I absolutely agree that this would mean we’d be exploring farther into Maguuma and finding out more about the area and the other Trees/Sylvari. I worry that it will be a grim exploration, and most/all Sylvari that we find will be under the control of Mordremoth. It would not surprise me to see heavy Asuran involvement, given their proximity and their involvement with Scarlet.

BondageBill.4021:

I have to say that I disagree with your hypothesis and resolution based on mechanical limitations. For the destruction of the Pale Tree to pass, ANet would have to:
Clipped for post length

These limitations worried me at first, but I believe that there are ways around them. First, I think that in order to have a truly “living story” ANet is going to have to sequence or separate the stories, meaning that in order to access the second arc, you will need to complete the first arc (or you start in the second arc, and have to manually choose to “phase into” the first arc. This would mean that certain zones would have two instances- one from the Zhaitan arc, and one from the Mordremoth Arc. This would only affect a handful of zones (Orr, Caledon Forest, and maybe Metrica Province and Brisban as well), but it is important if people are to play old story content without ruining the immersion of the new story. You say that this would divide the player-base, but it shouldn’t do this any more than new zones would. With this we are essentially just adding a some new zones with completely different content, tuned for end-game play.

This would solve most of the problems that you listed, but I think you also misunderstood one element of the theory: I don’t mean to say that the Pale Tree is following orders or necessarily influenced by Mordremoth, rather, I’d be of the belief that somehow Mordremoth’s corruption has already been broken. I’m not sure of how this has happened as of yet, but possibilities that stand out include Centaur shamanism (Ventari was involved in the planting of the Pale Tree and heavily influenced its development) or perhaps intervention by the Forgotten. (This follows along the same line as their intervention with Glint.) The mistake in Scarlet’s vision is that she did not see the irony that the Pale Tree has broken away from Mordremoth in much the same way that Scarlet wishes to break the Sylvari away from the Pale Tree.

I worry that under your counter-theory, we would not have the kind of permanent impact that we have very clearly been promised, and that the living world would stagnate.

What should we expect?
There are four remaining living world updates, and here is my speculation of how they will play out. (This obviously isn’t an exact science, but it should give a rough outline.)
1. This update Scarlet tests her Watchwork giant, and the thumpers draw up a big ‘ol worm. We know this already. The title is “Origins of Madness” so expect to see some investigation into Omadd’s lab from her original story along with more information on Omadd’s research and the nature of their delving into the Eternal Alchemy.
2. Scarlet stops messing around and attacks Lion’s Arch with the Clockwork Giant. This attack will be underwhelming, but spectacular because it is a feint meant to draw attention away from the Grove and toward Lion’s Arch, where many of the portals will be damaged, specifically the Grove’s.
3. A revelation occurs where we learn that Scarlet’s real target is the Grove, but it is difficult to gain support in defending it for much the same reason that we could not get support to Claw Island in the personal story: People either don’t believe you or there is not enough time before the attack occurs. With the Asura Gates down, mobilizing an army is too timely and costly for a hunch.
4. Scarlet attacks the Grove, and the players take part in the defense. Because Scarlet has been poisoning the ley-lines that the Pale Tree feeds off of, the Tree is weakened, and cannot defend itself as it should be able to. Ultimately, the defenses are overwhelmed, Scarlet burns the Pale Tree to the ground. The Sylvari are left devastated, soundless, and homeless. Sylvari are either no longer able to be created or their personal story is now an instanced version of Scarlet’s attack on the Pale Tree where Caithe, Trahearne, and some others lead the newest awakened Sylvari to safety. Mordremoth may or may not awaken, but at the very least Scarlet reveals its existence and the Tree’s connection to it.

The Distant Future: A new Pale Tree seed is left after the destruction, and the next arc of the Living Story centers around the germination of a new Pale Tree in the newly-cleansed Orr. This will serve as the new Sylvari starting area.

Special thanks to TheNinjaCupcake for working out these ideas with me and helping me to connect the dots. I cannot thank her enough for her contributions!

Also, sorry for the major wall of text! Hopefully this sparks some great discussion!

• A Dragon is coming during the next season of the living story, and this story is leading into the next story arc.
o Source: http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Elder_dragon (Link to the Dev. Posts/interviews to be added.)
Assuming that Zhaitan is dead, we have five dragons remaining: Krallkatorrik, Jormag, Primordus, the Sea Dragon (Bubbles), and the Jungle Dragon (Mordremoth). Krallkatorrik was last seen in the Crystal Desert after its fight with Destiny’s Edge, where it went to recover. It is believed to be preoccupied with Palawa Joko and Elona at this time, so it seems unlikely that he would be the next dragon. Jormag seems thematically to be least likely to fit with Scarlet. Bubbles is as of yet unknown in most regard, but it is widely believed that it is terrorizing the oceanic races of the world, and is thusly preoccupied; like Jormag, it does not seem to be thematically connected to Scarlet. Primordus has been widely speculated to be the next dragon due to the thumpers and references to fire in the poem on the metronome (more on the metronome later). This is a decent connection, but Primordus’s story is already widely known, and it thematically connects more with Dwarves and Asura than with Sylvari and Scarlet. Mordremoth is even less known than Bubbles, as the only in-game references come from Crucible of Eternity’s Experimental Lab Green, and it would make sense to introduce him sooner rather than later. Also, one cannot deny the obvious thematic connection between the jungle and the Sylvari.

• The Metronome has many key phrases hinting toward the Pale Tree and Mordremoth.
o Source: http://massively.joystiq.com/2014/01/08/arenanet-hints-at-next-gw2-update-with-meatspace-metronome/
“Thump, Thump. Time to jump. (1)
Wipe all resistance from your mind (2)
There’s a secret deep below to find (3)
If you’d only seen the things I’ve seen (4)
You’d wake up screaming from The Dream (5)
This next part will sting, but it brings me joy (6)
Sometimes to change you must destroy (7)
A fire is rising you cannot contain (8)
Tyria will burn, while I remain.” (9)

Lines 4, 5, and 7 are the most obvious hints toward the Pale Tree. Lines 4 and 5 directly reference the dream and her vision: something within The Dream is down-right frightening to Scarlet, and (she thinks) to us too. The Tree’s origin being Mordremoth fits this to a tee. Line 7 references her desire to free (change) the Sylvari through destruction. What could she destroy? The Pale Tree (and eventually Mordremoth himself). Line 3 and 8 seem to rarely be paired, but the connection between fire rising and a secret underneath are hard to ignore. This is commonly taken to be a sign of Primordus, but it more likely refers to Scarlet’s plan since that seems to be more in line with the theme of the poem (lines 2, 6, 7, and 9 all point toward something that she is about to do.)

• Something BIG is coming. Something that will change Tyria permanently.
o Sources: http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2014-01-14-you-thought-that-was-it-for-guild-wars-2
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b0perHo0Tkk
This is obviously meant to build hype- there is no denying that, but there are still clues to glean from this interview and the video. Most clearly, we know that whatever the change is, it is permanent, and it is on a large scale. We already know that Scarlet intends to destroy something, and the video shows a broken Asura gate in Lion’s Arch. I believe that this is misdirection. Look at the angle of the camera and the height of the gate/angle of the ramp at the end of the video: this appears to be the gate to the Grove. If anything, we should expect Scarlet to sabotage the gate so that reinforcements cannot make it to the Grove to defend the Pale Tree as quickly. Imagine what follows: the Pale Tree is destroyed, and the Sylvari are left soundless and homeless. The impact is certainly large enough to live up to the hype, and it is exactly what Scarlet desires according to her back story.

The Living Story: What Scarlet Saw
If nothing else, we have proved that this theory is plausible based upon the pre-existing lore before the living story and Scarlet’s emergence.

• The Pale Tree plays a central role in Scarlet’s story thus far.
o Source: https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/short-story-what-scarlet-saw/
The worst thing that we could do while trying to figure out Scarlet’s intentions is to forget her back story. No matter how botched the delivery was, even the most basic story-telling paradigms require consistency: Major themes and ideas introduced in a narrative do not vanish until resolved. The biggest theme in our clearest look at Scarlet’s motives (this short story) is Scarlet’s need to rebel and escape the Pale Tree’s dream, and any outside determination on her life. She fled the Pale Tree’s goals for her, and tried to block this from her mind, searching instead for the cold truths of Asuran science- a stark contrast from the Pale Tree’s dream. Read closely the Pale Tree’s plea to Scarlet: “_Please: go no further. In seeking to comprehend the forces that shape us, you will unleash them. Society cannot withstand that.” The Pale Tree is trying to intervene to prevent Scarlet from learning something, something that Society isn’t ready for. Scarlet goes deeper and sees that she can be “dangerous” to the tree, and she relishes this, going deeper into the vision. When she emerges, she says “So much makes sense now. The Pale Tree, the Nightmare Court, Caithe and Faolain…it’s all part of a grand design. But I see the flaws in that design. My people don’t have to take what we’re given, or be what we were “born to be.” No people do. We can change the rules…well, I can. And I’m going to._” Interpret this in the context of the theory, and we can deduce that Scarlet has seen the Sylvari’s connection to Mordremoth, and that the Pale Tree, and the Nightmare Court all in the end connect the Sylvari to Mordremoth. She seeks to sever those connections and free herself and her kin from that yoke. She wants to kill the Pale Tree, abolish the Nightmare court, and destroy Mordremoth. And history shows that she doesn’t care how she does this.

• The themes of Scarlet’s alliances thus far are Fire, Earth, Poison, and Machinery.
o Source: http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Thaumanova_Reactor_Fractal (Also see: Molten Alliance, Aetherblades, and Toxic Alliance.)
If we assume that this narrative makes sense, then each of these alliances serves some purpose in Scarlet’s ultimate goal. To accomplish to goal of destroying the Pale Tree and eventually Mordremoth, Scarlet needs power and a plan. The alliances themselves were not Scarlet’s ultimate goal, but rather their technology and specific expertise. The Molten Alliance provide knowledge of the earth, which allows her to track and follow the ley-lines and the dragon energy that flows through them; it also provides quite a bit in the pyrotechnic end of things- something VERY useful in destroying anything plant related (dragon or otherwise). The Toxic Alliance was Scarlet’s foray into learning about poisons from the Krait and Nightmare Court- both of whom practice intensely venomous types of magic: magic that can be used to taint the ley-lines and weaken the dragons (and possibly the Pale Tree) who draw upon them. The Aetherblades are more important to Scarlet in that they provide her the means to do many of her operations- airships specifically are invaluable when you want to be in ten places at once. All of these themes tie back to Mordremoth (poison, earth), the Pale Tree (fire, earth), and her own story (machinery).

The Developers, the Hype, and What We Know So Far:
Clues toward where the living story is heading have been dropped all over the forums, and unfortunately I lack links for many of these. I will leave a place for sources if anyone would be kind enough to provide links (credit will be 100% given.)

Theory: Scarlet’s goal is to kill Mordremoth, and its spawn, the Pale Tree in order to free the Sylvari from predetermined destinies.

This is a large claim that requires a lot of support. My goal with this post is to go step-by-step through material related to Scarlet and show convincingly that every element of the living story arc supports this conclusion.

Plausibility pre-living story:
First, let’s take Scarlet out of the equation. Before the living story arc, what do we know about the Pale Tree?

• The Pale Tree came about around the same time that the dragons awoke.
o Source: http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Pale_Tree
To quote: “_The seed which sprouted the Pale Tree was found in a cave containing many others like it, guarded by powerful plant creatures. Over 250 years ago, Ronan, a Shining Blade warrior, took one of these seeds and placed it on the graves of his family, located in what was once Arbor Bay, who were killed by the mursaat._”
We know nothing about these seeds or the creature who guarded them, but it stands to reason that an unknown, powerful plant-creature could have been one of Mordremoth’s early champions. The time-lines align very well for this theory, and we know about as little about Mordremoth as we do about the other trees. It stands to follow that these seeds could very easily be created by Mordremoth;.

• Sylvari do not reproduce.
o Source: https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/lore/lore/Another-lesbian-relationship/first#post3488514 (Thanks to Erukk.1408 for finding this.)
One of the things that we know about all of the dragon minions thus-far is that its minions to not breed in the normal sense. Most dragons corrupt already existing creatures (destroyers, undead, branded, etc.), but those minions do not reproduce after this. The only kind of reproduction that we know of comes from destroyers, as evidenced in the Skritt-arc in the living story: http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/The_Hatchery. Destroyers reproduce with eggs from a central location/breeder. Similarly, the Sylvari are collectively “awaken” from the Pale Tree. This leads me to believe that the Pale Tree and other trees like it are meant to produce Mordremoth’s minions: corrupt Sylvari.

• There are corrupt versions of Sylvari.
o Source: http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Nightmare_Court
Nightmare Court are Sylvari that turn away from the Pale Tree’s dream. By turning away from the Dream, Sylvari “are forced to commit dreadful acts that destroy every last ounce of virtue they may have left.” What’s important here is that it is NOT necessarily a conscious choice of the Sylvari to become evil, but rather a natural progression from the Dream to the Nightmare. If the Sylvari naturally progress to a Nightmare state when they turn away from the Dream, then it follows that the natural state of the Sylvari is in Nightmare. Their natural state is corruption.

• The dragon from the Sylvari’s opening instance does not resemble Zhaitan or his champions.
o Source: http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Shadow_of_the_Dragon
As you can see, this dragon is much closer to a ‘jungle dragon’ than an undead dragon. The Pale Tree attributes this to your Wyld Hunt to defeat Zhaitan, but it is certainly not clear that it saw your dream- you still need to explain what you saw when you awaken, and the player character isn’t particularly descriptive (and understandably so, since they are extremely confused). This is an easy mistake for the Pale Tree to make, especially if the Pale Tree does not know of its own connection to Mordremoth.

Yes, I’m probably not the first to say this, and I know I’m not going to be the last, but the Zhaitan fight was ridiculously underwhelming. I have heard no positive responses to this. Just off of the top of my head, these are some of the major problems:

1. There is no difficulty.
2. Destiny’s Edge played little to no role in the dragon’s destruction.
3. There was no “fight” with Zhaitan. (Mashing the 2 skill on the guns does not count.)
4. Trahearne was not even there .
5. Zhaitan’s “Champions” were mostly generic dragons. (Mouth of Zhaitan excluded.)

I’m not going to go in-depth on these problems. It isn’t hard to see why I’ve listed them. What I want to do is show one option to make the fight more like what the culmination to the living story, dungeon arc, and destiny edge’s story should be. This is the apex of three major parts of Guild Wars 2 and deserves to be a memorable experience. Here is my suggestion: a continuation of Arah Story mode (still for five players).

When Zhaitan was shot down, he was not dead. He retreated underground into a cathedral made by the Orrians to honor the gods, then sealed it with a particularly durable bone wall. Because it is underground, the airship that was used to weaken him cannot be brought there. To make up for this, the pact assemble a strike force to infiltrate Zhaitan’s lair, and defeat him in his weakened state. Destiny’s Edge, Trahearne, and the party (maybe add some important figures from the pact as well) are chosen.

Zojja engineers a smaller version of the giant cannons used on the pact ship to breach the wall to allow entry. Once there, they must go through waves of undead (remember, this is Zhaitan’s last stand, so everything he has will be here) as they advance farther in.

When they encounter Zhaitan, he is gaurded by six of his risen champions- the risen priests from the Orrian overworld. To progress, your group needs to split into three groups:

One group will advance in a direct path to the dragon, and will have to face the priests directly in combat to get there. There are there obstacles: the risen priests, the dragon’s corrupting aura, and the sporadic bone walls that are conjured as you progress.

To destroy the walls, Zojja stays behind and begins to repair the cannon that took damage during the way down. Eir and some other(s) from the player’s party stay behind to protect her.

The priests are connected to their statues that are on the upper ramparts overlooking the lower floors where the assault group progress. Caithe and Trahearne go with some other(s) from the player party along there to destroy the statues and weaken the priests.

The corrupting aura of Zhaitan can be held back by Logan’s shield, but not permanently. If the group takes too long, Logan will not be able to hold out, and the assault group will die. Rytlock and some other(s) from the party go with him in the direct assault. As they advance and encounter the different priests, the statue team would destroy the appropriate statues for them to be able to defeat the priest. Similarly, as Zhaitan summons walls, Zojja will fire the cannon to destroy them.

If any one team fails, the encounter fails, will need to be restarted. Every character has a major role to play, and every role is important where different play styles and character types shine..

-Damage is important on the ramparts, since destroying the statues needs to happen quickly.
-Survivability is important in the lower assault team since they will need to hold out until the statues are destroyed.
-A combination of these is important for protecting Zojja as undead will be constantly swarming, and you will need to protect her.
-On top of this, the party will need to choose one player to solo one of these paths, since you have only five players, and there are three paths. The goal here is to make you appreciate Destiny’s Edge more, and rely on them. (Adding some unique abilities to each of the members of Destiny’s Edge would help here.)

When all is said and done, a final showdown with the dragon would follow. The assault group would begin while the other two groups work to catch up to them and rejoin the fight.

This is not the only way to do this, but it would make the fight memorable and epic. The players would feel accomplished when it was over. This is important as the concluding event for three major arcs of the story.

I think the lesson that we can take from this topic is that everyone wants something different. Anet is balancing the tastes of millions of players. Few of the requests in this thread have been echoed by other people, and it’s clear that what would make one person happy would not make others happy. What YOU want is not what OTHERS want, so the next time you decide to complain about the direction that Anet is taking, maybe we should try to remember that there are others who are applauding what they’re doing. I think that would make the forums a much more enjoyable place. That’s what I want.

Nuka Cola.8520:

Not only twilight but all legendary weapons. And it won’t be exactly easy with all the mats the thing needs. just look at Tormented weapons from gw1 as an example. You do ONE dungeon, collect all needed items and craft that weapon. This is how legendaries should’ve been because buying gems off of gem store to convert into money to afford the redonculous mats/precursor prices and then waste tens of hours mapping a boring and deserted world isn’t exactly exciting.

It just sounds like Legendaries aren’t for you. They’re in the game as a be-all-end-all goal-of-goals. If that’s too extreme for you, then there are plenty of other options. No one has a gun to your head telling you that you need a legendary weapon. Why not go for one of the rarer exotic weapon with a cool skin?

Zenith.6403:

- I’m glad you brought up other games. The way I think about those games that you mentioned, they are fundamentally different from the MMO paradigm. In the olden times games were made because someone thought of fun idea, like plumber running around collecting mushrooms, and made it into game. There was no expectation. Fighting games is another similar idea. Surely the bureau of concerned parents didn’t approve such violence, but they were made because fighting is cool when you’re young.

Then you have the MMO genre which is basically a collection of strict rules. You must have numeric stats on characters. You must have levels. You must have item collection and progression. People were playing Warcraft III and thought “what if I could play this game and level up my heroes past the level 10?”. The game that never ends was a popular demand back in the days of limited computing resources. Thus World of Warcraft was made and became insanely popular. The gring was wanted and desired. People wanted goals to work for and bling to show for it.

Thus the new genre was born. MMO had guaranteed longevity, because the endless progression was one of the ideas that was taken for granted. At the same time development resources were wasted on making this possible. It’s not possible for artists to draw infinite number of original art or coders to code infinite number of original events and encounters. The genre is very much different of the hand-crafted experience of Mario series or the old console Final Fantasies. It’s watered down and the appeal is in the floating numbers and red bars going down.

Games are not restricted by nature. They are made so by deliberate choice. The choice of having to unlock maps and waypoints. The choice of making armor cost great number of dungeon relics and the choice of separating currencies and making things bound to character. Restrictions aren’t only in MMOs. The little Mario can’t break brick blocks but the Super Mario can. The crucial difference is this: restriction that makes sense is a fun game element, and the restriction that doesn’t make sense is anti-fun obstructionism.

You can see the explanations for many design choices be like this: We didn’t want players to be done with the content so soon, so we added a new currency and scaled the prices so that the content must be repeated around 50-70 times. We added waypoint fees because gold must be taken away from economy. Those are bull**** explanations for restrictions. Here’s some that make sense for good measure: The little Mario can’t break brick blocks because he is small (and has no power). The shotgun has lower effective shooting range because the ammunition spreads thin. The fire bolt spell is ineffective against sand monster, because sand doesn’t burn.

Guild Wars 2 has a great deal of anti-fun obstructionism, because the choices make no sense. The game developers have to have idea what he wants to present to the player, but the art of that is presenting it in a manner that makes sense. That’s one of the marks of good game.

Interesting, but what if they hadn’t done these things that you’re objecting to. If they didn’t have ways to remove gold from the economy, price inflation would go insane. If there weren’t so many currencies, then we’d all have run out of things to do long ago, which means we lose out the fun we have with the game. Not all aspects of game design are as romanticized as you seem to think they are. These are important to an MMORPG. Even if some mechanics don’t make sense, they’re essential to the health of a game. What about Guild Wars specifically bothers you?

Dante.1508:

If you’re interested heres a couple of links to show Guildwars 1 Weapon stats
http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Weapon
http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Unique_item

Yes the Crap is Ascended, and no the stats increase is not miniscule, if it was they wouldn’t be bound and we’d all be able to just get them on the Trading post, like Exotics..
Guildwars 1 loot dropped, everywhere, yes certain things like Ectos dropped from other areas but 99% of loot you got casually and without much hardships then you just got the Armor Skins you liked and were happy, obviously if you wanted the grind skins you had to run certain areas, more and collect the items needed..

But it wasn’t a gear treadmill and the game catered to everyone equally, wanted a good weapon go kill a boss or champion a few times and a masterclass weapon dropped, unique and master class were pretty much the same stats.

Unless I’m mistaken, I’ve read that it’s an 8% increase in stats from exotic to ascended. Currently the only piece of equipment that is Fractal-specific is the back item. Back items are the weakest pieces of equipment. We’re talking about a 5-10 point increase in three areas for having that ascended back item. I’d say that’s pretty minuscule. Plus, if the laurel merchant is any indication, the back items won’t be fractal-specific for long.

For the gear from laurel merchants, as long as you do your dailies, you just have to be patient- it’s not grinding or a gear treadmill- it’s just patience.

The general opinion is that it isn’t all that great. I think the only thing it has going for it is that it’s the only ranged main-handed weapon. If you want a ranged weapon with your focus, that’s all you’ve got. Still, most people prefer the 1h Sword.

Czar Peter.7961:

Crespus.7405:

My point is, no matter what game you’re playing, you need goals to keep you interested. Grinding is exemplified when you need to do something repetitive and boring over and over to be able to access something that looks fun. Everything in Guild Wars is accessible without grinding. You can naturally enjoy playing the game in nearly any way (PvP, Dungeons, Fractals, Dynamic Events, Exploration) and STILL be able to go anywhere or do anything.

I accept your definition of grinding. The issue here is that for some people, the gameplay itself is not the most fun or challenging aspect of a game. Take Magic: The Gathering for example. At least half the fun and challenge comes from building your deck, not from playing a game.

Likewise in GW2. When I do stuff in PvE and PvP, I am not just evaluating my twitch reflexes, but also how well my build is performing. My satisfaction when playing my engineer doesn’t just come from the fact that I can set things on fire, but that I’m putting my choice of traits/skills/food/equipment to the test. The fact that ANet have decided to make changing your equipment require a large time investment is what frustrates people.

I see your point about strategizing and build-testing. I enjoy many of the same things in games that you seem to. I think you’re overestimating the investment needed to change your build though. Even the priciest gear on the trading post is 6 gold/each at most. This can be gathered in either a long day or two days of modest playing.. At 6 pieces of armor, two weapons, (four if you count awatic weapons), six trinkets, and 8 runes/sigils. Assuming the ABSOLUTE most expensive new equipment, you’re looking at a month of farming to completely replace your old gear with exotics. That seems like a reasonable commitment to make your character the strongest possible in a new build. If you’re unsure of the build, then test it with significantly cheaper rares first. You’ll quickly see if it’s viable and worth the investment to get exotics.

synch.2980:

For me, the issue is that I don’t get the majority of the items for a Legendary by “just playing the game” – while it is true that most of it is purchasable for gold via the trading post, the cost to do so appears to be unattainable by “normal” gameplay in a rational amount of time – say a year?

Only by a single-minded focus on maximally-profitable activities is it likely that you can acquire the means to obtain one. For many things (precursors, in particular) the cost is rising faster than many player’s income.

Now, if I could reasonably expect that I’d have “naturally” acquired everything I needed for a Legendary after a year of gameplay not utterly dedicated to obtaining one, then I’d be willing to contend that you can get a Legendary weapon without a “grind”.

Legendaries are (or should) be a long-term goal. And if you’ve got to have one now-now-now, then you shouldn’t be surprised that the means to do so are going to be grindy, and not what you’d otherwise be doing.

However, at the moment it seems likely to me that I’ll never have a Legendary, no matter how long I play the game as I’m just not willing to ruin my enjoyment of the game in order to pursue one.

ArenaNet seems to realize this, and will (I hope) be addressing this with the “scavenger hunt” that they’ve announced they’re working on, and perhaps other future updates.

LIke any MMO, Guild Wars 2 is a work-in-progress, and ArenaNet will learn from what players do and how they do it. What they enjoy, and what they don’t. I’m not going to let the apparent unattainability of Legendaries ruin my GuildWars 2 experience, but until and unless they substantially alter the process to obtain one, they may as well not exist for me.

To the extent that ArenaNet wants Legendaries to be an end-game aspiration or motivation for me – and apparently some other players, they have failed in their purpose.

I could not agree more about precursers., specifically Dusk and Dawn, which are nearing 600/700g. I’m curious how much time you devote to the game though, and what you prefer to do in game. It seems odd that you wouldn’t be able to build up the funds/materials for a legendary over the course of a year of gameplay. I usually play 2-4 hours per day, playing an occasional dungeon, running events in Orr, and doing random world exploration. While doing that, I walk away with about 4-5g per day on average, along with a few Ectoplasms, skill points, and some karma for clovers. I’m estimating that at my current pace, it’ll take me about 5 months to get my legendary together.

Nuka Cola.8520:

All i want in pve is dungeons with much harder difficulty but NEVER ever see blues/worst quality as a drop. lets say i felt on my head and decided to build Twilight. I want a dungeon where every single needed mat has a high chance of drop. This way you’re doing a dungeon and have a goal. We all had one when the game was released and everyone wanted dungeon armors but now that all get them its worthless and drops from chests/creatures is a joke. I’ve been hearing devs say ’we’re making dungeon reward significantly better’ for months and nothing, absolutely nothing made laughable reward any more decent.

If such a dungeon existed, then building Twilight would be trivial. Everyone who wanted one would have it done inside of a week and all of a sudden, legendaries are just as trivial as other dungeon rewards. Is that what you want?

Dante.1508:

I want Stats Variations like GW 1 so the game does not have a treadmill.
I want loot to be casually found and made like GW 1 through every aspect of the game
I’d like end game “skins” to be the final grind not overpowered crap
The Cash shop full of Armor set weapon set skins.
Story Quest Gives an Epic or Legendary Item, as per GW1 (not a rare)
Story Quests can be redone
Dungeons Scaleable to level and group size in difficulty..
I want Skills Capture and a lot more skills than we currently have as per GW1

I’d just like Guildwars 2 to follow its roots better and appeal to its original fans more, i guess that’s too much to ask.
(my opinion)

Many of these rewards sound reasonable- I do think that the story quests should give exotics (probably not legendaries, since that would remove the uniqueness of them), but what ‘overpowered crap’ is currently available? Ascended gear? The stat increase is minuscule, and now, thanks to laurels, it’s available to everyone.

I haven’t played the first Guild Wars though, so I can’t say much about those comments. What do you mean about stat variation? And what about GW1’s loot system was different? It seems to me that 90% of skins can be obtained as random world drops during casual play or bought from the auction house for gold made through casual play.

There’s an upsurge of the number of ‘gear treadmill’ and ‘grinding’ threads on the forums lately, and I just have to ask: “What are you really looking for from this game?” Whether it’s Legendaries, Ascended gear, or dungeon gear, all of these threads are saying that it’s all just grinding.

Every game has an/a few goals. Mario games your goal is to get to the last level and beat the last boss. Is it ‘grinding’ to beat all the levels before that? In fighting games, your goal is to become better at the game. Is it ‘grinding’ when you practice your combos? In shooting games, your goal is to be able to beat other players consistently. Is it ‘grinding’ to play those matches before you can do that?

My point is, no matter what game you’re playing, you need goals to keep you interested. Grinding is exemplified when you need to do something repetitive and boring over and over to be able to access something that looks fun. Everything in Guild Wars is accessible without grinding. You can naturally enjoy playing the game in nearly any way (PvP, Dungeons, Fractals, Dynamic Events, Exploration) and STILL be able to go anywhere or do anything.

Legendaries are a goal that you naturally progress toward as you play the game normally.. Everything gives you karma, gold, and experience- these are the main ingredients of 90% of legendary items. Ascended gear came from Fractals, and was meant to be a reward for participating in that part of the game- ANet realized that not everyone likes Fractals, so they added an option to get them through Dailies, which are gotten through nearly any kind of gameplay. Cosmetic gear can be gotten through any way- there’s pieces from WvW, Dungeons, or random world drops.- YOU can choose what you enjoy doing in the game, and get what you want from that. How is this grinding? Tell me, what would a game without ‘grinding’ look like to you? How could ANet reasonably make this game grindless without putting an NPC in Lion’s Arch that hands out every item in the game?

Clones are more of a diversion- phantasms are the damage dealers for a Mesmer. Clones are still very useful though- they draw hits from you, they can be shattered, and, as a staff Mesmer, they cast Winds of Chaos, and apply conditions/buffs just as you do.

Phantasmal Berserker is definitely useful for tagging too, and I use that regularly, but with the rate that mobs appear in those events, it won’t be off cooldown for every wave even with all of the cooldown reduction traits.. Mind wrack is useful too, but illusion summoning skills are rarely instant, and of those that are, few summon the illusions at the enemy, ready to shatter- they need to run up and shatter. In that time, if the event is busy, most enemies will be dead.
Feedback and Null Field are instant cast, and if you position right, you can have enemies run into/out of the field just as they become vulnerable. In a pinch, this is EXTREMELY useful when Berserker is on cooldown, and you know a wave will drop fast.

I’ve heard a few times around the forums that people are having trouble tagging large groups of enemies in the large farming events in Orr like Penitant Camp and Shelter’s Gate. Many of the Mesmer’s skills aren’t instant cast AoE like a warrior or elementalist, so that puts us at a disadvantage.

What works pretty well for me is using Confusing Enchantments in conjunction with Null Field and Feedback. Place the skills in front of the approaching enemies, they’ll walk into/out of the field, get confused, and that will tag them for you. NOTE: this does NOT confuse enemies if you place the field on top of them. It only does upon their entering or exiting the field, so you need to position it appropriately..

Also, if someone could confirm something for me on the same subject: If you lay down a combo field, and someone else uses a finisher, will their attack tag a mob for you? So, for instance, if I have null field on an enemy, and someone fires a projectile through the field, confusing the enemy, will that tag the enemy for you?

I’m actually running GW2 on the exact model of Alienware laptop that OP mentioned. It runs smoothly at near-max graphics (or 40ish FPS if you bump reflections and shadows to max) with absolutely no overheating issues. Just be smart and keep it propped up so the fan can work properly and heat will escape, and you won’t have any issues.

Shear Force.9154:

Happyfool.8951:

Shear Force.9154:

To touch on that, why does it take 20 or possibly 30 days to get a ring? When it only takes 10 days to buy one running daily fractals, even less if you do more than one.

for those people who don’t like running fractals but complain about the gear treadmill.

Fine that’s an excellent alternative, I don’t think you understood my argument tho, it takes 10 days to get it through fractals, that’s assuming you run once a day. It would take me 3 days, for some, it would take one, one day, so why does one have to spend 20 to 30 days to get something, that could have been gotten by day 10, my argument is, rings should be 10 laurels, maximum amount of time it would have taken you to get it normal way.

I think you’re looking at this the wrong way. Think about how much effort it takes to go through the required fractals in those 10 days to get the rewards. Now look at the amount of effort it takes to get a laurel. Dailies/monthlies are simple to complete and generally finished without a second thought. I think they’re gauging it more on effort exerted than on real-time to get them.