Guild Wars 2

Game crashed, lost all my gems.

Plenty of people had the same issue…

I smell a roll back!

Humm, Marauder/Zerk gear it is.

I can get the Insignia fairly easy, the recepies will be more complex but doable.

Thanks!

Or more specifically what stats to survive in the new zones?

I have run the new content on my Reaper with Knight Armor and full ascended Zerk trinkets, Ranger with Cavalier armor and Ascended Sentinel Trinkets but next is my Ele, and I dread soloing in there…

I plan on playing Staff Ele (not a deal breaker), would Celestials armor and trinkets be enough to keep me alive and do decent dps? For the 2 previous professions I had pets to help me throughout it all, but with Ele I face a no-pet situation on a fragile profession.

Anyone who has tackled the new content on an Ele have any sort of tips, regarding build and gear? Any advice would be greatly welcome.

The one to Rule.2593:

Meh, casuals win again

Let me fix that for you;

The majority wins again XD

Also they said they were keeping the difficulty, which I think is what the “hardcore” like most about the HOT anyway, so it’s more of a win win then anything.

Straylight.7529:

Drivrius.6159:

Metacrit average of 4 says it more then a “few hundred”.

Think about it, the only purchasable content the game has can’t break a 5, they’l ldo something because the majority wants it.

You sure? The metacritic average of 4 is made up of 29 people.
So 29 people say more than a few hundred?

Oh, it just changed. It’s now an average of 4.5 made out of 30 votes

Yes, I’m sure if you knew anything about costumer service you would know that “for every one costumer that complains 26 remain silent” and that it takes several more positive review to make up for a bad one, or that word of mouth regarding negative reviews have fsr more weigh then positive reviews.

Basically mostly negative review in something like Metacritcs is far more telling then the number of people who voted.

Nexterror.7180:

Drivrius.6159:

Nexterror.7180:

Drivrius.6159:

Archy.1046:

Drivrius.6159:

This is what I feel as well, its as thou they created a new game rather then continue the old one. From casual solo to hardcore group oriented.

You haven’t seen “hardcore” then. New maps are group oriented casual. If they are too hard for you – get better. Or play older maps, cuz they are easy and designed for solo play. Me, my guild, all my friends – we waited all this time for harder group oriented content. And now we are finally enjoying it!

Compared what the core game prepared me to while doing my personal story? yes, it’s hardcore. I would play older maps if I could get my elite specs from there, but I can’t because of the ridicule amount of HPs needed.

I agree the elitist minority is loving this expansion, the casual players not so much.

Don’t believe me check the HOT Metacritic review, a 3.9 says the majority is not as happy.

Just a correction. Zerging has nothing to do with elitist. They both suck but in a different way. HoT content is zergy. That’s it. No skills required.

I said that because the majority of “tips” being given about people not being able to solo HOT is “Git Gud” and other variations of that.

That’s exactly what i am saying

kitten ! Sorry abotu that.

Reading skills failed me, rolled a nat 1 on sense motive, time to go to sleep it seems!

Andred.1087:

If you don’t like it, don’t play. It’s a kittening game after all. Maybe they’ll change it, but honestly I doubt it, and I think they’re totally justified if they don’t. It’s not the first time people have whined incessantly about something and ultimately got over it or quit. Game just hit 7 million players… they aren’t going to miss a few hundred who can’t be bothered to have a little patience.

Metacrit average of 4 says it more then a “few hundred”.

Think about it, the only purchasable content the game has can’t break a 5, they’l ldo something because the majority wants it.

They are average, but 3 dimensional and heavily populated, so they fell much bigger then they actually are.

Nexterror.7180:

Drivrius.6159:

Archy.1046:

Drivrius.6159:

This is what I feel as well, its as thou they created a new game rather then continue the old one. From casual solo to hardcore group oriented.

You haven’t seen “hardcore” then. New maps are group oriented casual. If they are too hard for you – get better. Or play older maps, cuz they are easy and designed for solo play. Me, my guild, all my friends – we waited all this time for harder group oriented content. And now we are finally enjoying it!

Compared what the core game prepared me to while doing my personal story? yes, it’s hardcore. I would play older maps if I could get my elite specs from there, but I can’t because of the ridicule amount of HPs needed.

I agree the elitist minority is loving this expansion, the casual players not so much.

Don’t believe me check the HOT Metacritic review, a 3.9 says the majority is not as happy.

Just a correction. Zerging has nothing to do with elitist. They both suck but in a different way. HoT content is zergy. That’s it. No skills required.

I said that because the majority of “tips” being given about people not being able to solo HOT is “Git Gud” and other variations of that.

Archy.1046:

Just let the low skill whiners rage quit. After a week or two they will be gone.

Quality > Quantity.

Let’s just hope Anet won’t be nerfing everyting just because of some cry babies.

3.9 Metacritc reviews, they’ll nerf it because of a majority of, as you call them, “cry babies”.

Archy.1046:

Drivrius.6159:

This is what I feel as well, its as thou they created a new game rather then continue the old one. From casual solo to hardcore group oriented.

You haven’t seen “hardcore” then. New maps are group oriented casual. If they are too hard for you – get better. Or play older maps, cuz they are easy and designed for solo play. Me, my guild, all my friends – we waited all this time for harder group oriented content. And now we are finally enjoying it!

Compared what the core game prepared me to while doing my personal story? yes, it’s hardcore. I would play older maps if I could get my elite specs from there, but I can’t because of the ridicule amount of HPs needed.

I agree the elitist minority is loving this expansion, the casual players not so much.

Don’t believe me check the HOT Metacritic review, a 3.9 says the majority is not as happy.

Knighthonor.4061:

actually the reason for why its 400 HP and very gated, is because Elite Specs are suppose to be a substitute for “Traditional Pre-Raid-Dungeon gearing up” that we have in other MMOs with raids.

the thing is, since GW2 doesnt have a heavy Gear Progression, this tradition was replaced by a equally time consuming process of collecting Hero Points and Masteries.

Yet Anet insists that Elite Specs are not superior to core game specs.

Chrono.6928:

Drivrius.6159:

It’s so people would be forced to play the horrible new content.

GW2’s core game was a fun, casual friendly experience.

Were soloing your story quests was simple, with plenty of WPs and exp to get to cap.

HOT thou? It has mob density that all but forces a group just to get to the few and far inbetween WPs, HPs that spawns champions require masteries or are guarded by groups of vets, events that spawn all over the place with enough mobs to eat you alive in seconds.

The mobs in HOT exist in 3 forms: does large area damage, knocks downs, does large aoe damage and knocks down.

I tackled the new content with Cavalier armor on, I’ll try Sentinel next because Cavalier is simply not enough to survive in HOT, but then again I get the feeling HOT is not meant to be soloable since not only do the mobs hit hard enough to kill you very quickly they also have plenty of hit points and vets are plentiful.

Are mobs currently over tuned? Should I stop trying to solo my story line?

All in all HOT feels like an entirely different game from GW2, it’s more like a hardcore “die at the 1st mistake” kind of game then the casual friendly game I liked…

Very disappointed in the new content, I’ll do it once to know the story then never again.

Tip from a seasoned fractal player. Get better. Its not about armor its about knowing what to dodge and the encounter mechanics. Sorry you can’t breeze through it the first week with a greatsword and zerker armor lol. Anet said be prepared to try new armor, utility skills and change traits often. Its actually not kittence you learn.

“Git gud” is not a tip, it’s a veiled insult.

I don’t run zerk, never have. My problem is not a lack of skill, my problem is that a casual game has stopped being so in the span of a single expansion.

tokyoshoe.6308:

My baseline for being able to solo my way thru GW2 is .. GW2 itself. I can solo my way thru from level 1 to level 80, no problem. I grabbed all the Hero Points necessary for me to unlock my class abilities, all solo.

New expansion pack called “Heart of Thorns” gets announced, and I’m intrigued. New Elite Specs? I’m EXCITED! I could NOT wait, I was very eager and happy.

Now that I’ve spent the better part of three days in “Heart of Thorns”, I have to say that I am confused and a bit disappointed. The over all difference in design philosophy is so drastically different that it caused a bit of ‘culture shock’ for me, and I’m still trying to figure out exactly why they changed it so dramatically.

This is what I feel as well, its as thou they created a new game rather then continue the old one. From casual solo to hardcore group oriented.

Zomaarwat.3912:

Massive
Multiplayer
Online
Role
Playing
Game

Personal
Story

3, but it’s mainly because even if only half finished it’s fun to run Reaper in the Labyrinth.

Dante.1763:

Drivrius.6159:

Dante.1763:

Drivrius.6159:

You enjoy HOT as it is, but still think the specs cost too much.

Now put yourself in our shoes, not only do we agree on the specs cost but to get them we have to play content we don’t like.

To me that goes hand in hand. Doesnt PVP get them unlocked for PVP though? And cant WVW earn them through WVW?

I only play PvE and I really dislike the new zones.

Thats all i do too, but im loving the new zones. If they cost less though, wouldnt you be able to get them by doing the regular zones? i mean my ranger had 200 points sitting on her from 100% mapping.

I have 100% map completion on my Necro, I would love if it only costed 200 HPs, it would mean I could avoid the new zones unless I wanted to see the story.

The part where they forced us to do the new zones was a mistake, it should be a choice not a necessity. Hell if I was in charge I would have made it possible to lvl while using your elite spec, rather then gate it behind all other specs being maxed.

Dante.1763:

Drivrius.6159:

You enjoy HOT as it is, but still think the specs cost too much.

Now put yourself in our shoes, not only do we agree on the specs cost but to get them we have to play content we don’t like.

To me that goes hand in hand. Doesnt PVP get them unlocked for PVP though? And cant WVW earn them through WVW?

I only play PvE and I really dislike the new zones.

kuscheldrow.6415:

If I had known that I’d get Silverwastes x4³ in the end, only even more demotivating I’d have saved my money…
Every Charakter needs to do the same boring stuff if he wants his elite. —> 400pts
You have to grind events for your masteries, which you can only do IN Maguuma, to even advance though the maps if you want 100 percent. Every map ha its own currency you’ll have to grind for stuff just like SW… I don’t like the way GW2 is going. Whoever loved SW – I didn’t even complete the achievements there. I found it boring, like Drytop.
There were days where a JP that you can’t complete only were 10 missing AP… now it may be THE mastery point you’re missing to advance. (at least for Maguuma). Now you’ll HAVE to do content you don’t like while you had the choice to do it or leave it before. The whole system is something I never wanted to see in GW2…
Not to mention the dungeon nerfs.

If that’s the policy for future content, then I’m sorry but I’ll be gone by then.

I can see how the next expansion with new specs will be, in order to force you to play the new content it will require a 1000 HPs and the new HPs in that area will give 50 HPs!

Dante.1763:

markot.3946:

So…. they should learn to make the most out of bad game design rather then ask for the game to be designed well?

Maybe they should sent Anet some cupcakes too like the folks on Reddit?

Or its different point of view. I personally enjoy HOT as it is: I do agree that the elite specs cost to much, everything else however, is pretty nice, for me. Thats just my opinion of course. But, most of the players ive talked to seem to agree.

The forums arent a large part of the game, they are a minority, at least in my experience(with several other MMOs), and often the most vocal. RDDT is a different story of course, far more people over there, which is a good thing.

You enjoy HOT as it is, but still think the specs cost too much.

Now put yourself in our shoes, not only do we agree on the specs cost but to get them we have to play content we don’t like.

Harder content for those who like it is fine, but don’t gate the Elite Specs behind it!

GW2 is known as THE casual MMO, why mess with the one thing distinguishing it from the rest by implementing grind? Hell not just grind, gated grind…

leftyboy.9358:

Vissarion.6509:

It’s still too early to judge, give it a month.

I know the new locations look hard to navigate and pretty challenging, but when you unlock masteries traveling become really easy.

I predict if it takes them a month to get their stuff figured out, you’ll see a mass exodus of a large portion of their more casual player base. At least enough so that the hardcore grinders who have thus far been unwilling to compromise, will complain about not enough people around..

The one thing GW2 has on every other MMO out there is that’s it’s known as the most casual one around, that it’s not grindy, that your gear will never become obsolete, heck how many MMO can claim you can get to lvl cap without playing? Lvl cap which by the way is never to increase.

But HOT makes it feel like a hardcore Korean grind MMO, at least compared to the core game.

Mitch.4781:

markot.3946:

In what univserse does having to take time to do something equals a challenge?

Driving a formula 1 car around a track for one lap is a challenge.

Driving a toyota on a 10 hour car journey is a chore.

That depends. If you’re driving your Toyota through beautiful scenary and stopping off at nice places on the way, it’s not so much of a chore……. Hot works in pretty much the same way.

The problem is you’re forced to drive the Toyota to get to the car you drove during your test drive (the beta) and expected to see this “beautiful scenary” on.

SRoode.7318:

I play a Mesmer with Celestial gear and I don’t think the fighting is too hard. I can’t do most of the Hero Points by myself, but I can do some. What is hard is trying to figure out the 3 dimension maze and how to get to where I want to go. I’m okay with the 400HP (I had map completion with my Mesmer, so I got about 50% Chronomancer from the start, and I don’t mind working for the rest). What I do not like is the XP requirement on the Tyria side. Since I have map completion on 3 of my characters, I feel I have more than done this. They gave me 30 points for everything I already did in Tyria, so I think it’s appropriate that they also account for all the XP I already completed. The other thing I’m not so happy about is having the Scribe in the Guild Halls only. I’m a Guild of 1, and I can accept that they have made the decision to limit this type of Guild (I Still have my Guild Bank, so that’s okay). But, having the Scribe in the Guild Hall prevents me from crafting pre’s if I choose to do so, unless I join another bigger guild, which I will not do.

Anyway, that’s my two cents.

I’m part of a 3 men guild, we knew from the start we would have very little but we were getting there, the new Guild Hall system pretty much ended any chance at expanding our guild unlocks through slow progression.

sephiroth.4217:

For once they have made PvE enjoyable, it’s a shame it’s over shadowed by the grind of getting elite specs, I just want the mechanics I paid for to be unlocked to enjoy the content to it’s full extent.

That’s the sad part, if I could get my elite specs without grinding the HOT zones I would just avoid these new “harder” zones.

And only tackle them when I feel to see the story, but I have to move away from the casual game to the hardcore one if I want access to what I was promised…

Randulf.7614:

Drivrius.6159:

Has Anet said anything? Is this new difficulty here to stay? I would like to know if I need to start looking for a new MMO to play with friends.

The difficulty was overwhelmingly approved of during beta test play. So much so, that when a bug caused a brief drop in difficulty to the same levels as core map, there was huge outporing of negative feedback. Anet came out and said the diffuclty nef was unintended as it was to be restored to (how it is now) for launch.

Like it or hate it, it is here to stay at least for now. What they do later down the line (ie like Orr) is another matter.

Dang, oh well I’ll grind the Halloween event then play something else in the hopes GW2 is casual game again…

So they’re going to fix the change from casual friendly to “standard MMO number 1406510”? Because this is one disappointing expansion, group required, grind required, no casuals allowed…

Has Anet said anything? Is this new difficulty here to stay? I would like to know if I need to start looking for a new MMO to play with friends.

Odyssey.6523:

Honestly I dont think its that bad. One thing making it a bit harder, especially in the further maps, is lack of player density. Thats something that will increase over time. This crap will be an event train in a few weeks just watch.

God I hope so, because right now this feels more like a TERA map full of BAMs then GW2…

Sylent.3165:

The issue is to many people complained it’s not hard enough even though in any mmo open world pve isn’t supposed to be this insane.

Anet really messed up here. Raids and high level fractals were brought in to please these people. But the new maps feel like a giant raid with no one around.

If they decrease the difficulty these elite people with there 24 packs of mountain dew and hot pockets will complain like crazy instead of just staying in raids and fractals where they belong. Or in ff14 or wow

The thing is, GW2 is very popular and I know many people who moved to this game because it’s known as the best, casual friendly MMO out there and HOT has destroyed that. The on thing GW2 had on every other MMO and it’s 1st patch invalidates this…

I’m giving up, this is more like Dark Souls online then GW2, it’s a horrible experience to try and play this solo.

The shift in game style from the core game is like day and night, you go from a fun, solo casual, game to hardcore, group only in a second.

It’s so people would be forced to play the horrible new content.

GW2’s core game was a fun, casual friendly experience.

Were soloing your story quests was simple, with plenty of WPs and exp to get to cap.

HOT thou? It has mob density that all but forces a group just to get to the few and far inbetween WPs, HPs that spawns champions require masteries or are guarded by groups of vets, events that spawn all over the place with enough mobs to eat you alive in seconds.

The mobs in HOT exist in 3 forms: does large area damage, knocks downs, does large aoe damage and knocks down.

I tackled the new content with Cavalier armor on, I’ll try Sentinel next because Cavalier is simply not enough to survive in HOT, but then again I get the feeling HOT is not meant to be soloable since not only do the mobs hit hard enough to kill you very quickly they also have plenty of hit points and vets are plentiful.

Are mobs currently over tuned? Should I stop trying to solo my story line?

All in all HOT feels like an entirely different game from GW2, it’s more like a hardcore “die at the 1st mistake” kind of game then the casual friendly game I liked…

Very disappointed in the new content, I’ll do it once to know the story then never again.

… So in order to play the new content with the specializations, I need to play and likely complete most of the new content?

That’s really disappointing, oh well on the plus side I can delete my engineer.

I created it thinking I could lvl it using my Elite Specialization since the kit system was so awful and the hammer was cool, now I know I would need to complete all other Specializations and the new map to get to play the character the way I want to.

Seriously, the Elite Specialization is supposed to be a whole new way to play the profession, not a straight up upgrade so why treat as such? And why wall it behind not only the other specializations but also the new content? What, the devs think we’ll get our elite specs then not play the new content or sothing!?

Thank God SWTOR released their expansion, so I’ll have something to play this weekend, I kinda lost the will to play HOT now, the new content I was looking forward to now feels like, well grind…

Dadnir.5038:

Necromancer :
Master of corruption? you like danger ain’t you? honnestly, i’d say that path of corruption would be better.

Reaper :
Deathly chill? Not sure it’s worth your time. Reaper onslaught for the win.

Also, forget the survivability with the weapon, it’s abysmal at best.

Interesting ideas, Reaper Onslaught would allow to ditch Chilling Force for Decimate Defenses.

I love Duuhmfire and Bleeds on crits,

What weapons would you recommend?

And yes I love my daggers XD

Hi,

I’m a fairly new player and would like some advice on a hybrid build, I dislike the idea of sticking to the meta of “all zerk all the time” and came up with this build I really enjoy:
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vRAQNAoYWjk0QLNWdDO2AHOOMGqZKED5AdJiiaN+zBwAA-ThRHgA/K/+UToa/BRVbi0HAoEEA-e

But with Reaper coming soon I was thinking if this would be a better idea:
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vRAQNAodWjk0QLNWdDO2AHOW0GspAQCICEPBzgfQqRQKoRB-ThRHgA/K/+UToa/BRVbi0HAoEEA-e

The soldier weapons for a bit of survivability, the zerk gear for damage with dagger auto, Blood Magic for survivability/faster dagger skills and the rest of the gear to have condition damage, power and some crit chance for bleeds/Chill Nova.

This is mainly for open world PvE and the occasional Dungeon.

Any comments welcome.

Basandra Skye.4031:

Drivrius.6159:

Kal Spiro.9745:

Drivrius.6159:

Arlee.7038:

Drivrius.6159:

“You guys know how every MMO we have ever played or even heard of refunds skill tree points when they make a major overhaul or sometimes even a small change to a skill within a tree?”

“Yeah well GW2 devs went the other route and spend them for you at seemingly random”

Once again, don’t blame the devs blame gd people who cried about losing their skills. Those people are the reason you are stuck with your temporary problem.

Drivrius.6159:

P.S. I have gained 5 lvls since the patch, not one Hero Point earned…

You only gain them on odd levels, and yes if you had more skills unlocked than you would have had in this system so you have a bit of a deficit. Still doesn’t change your problem is a temporary one.

Also still doesn’t change that my problem is being forced to play a character the way the devs want, not how I want…

I don’t care how temporary my problem is, when the only way to get around it is to play something I dislike.

This has nothing to do with the devs. The Devs didn’t go through each individual character and choose their build. They made an algorithm that weighed values of things. This method is invariably flawed for this precise reason. The flaw is just minor enough to not matter in the long run.

It has everything to do with the devs, they are the ones who opted for the algorithm rather then obvious solution.

The are also the ones who chose to not add a refund option and ultimately the ones who could fix that.

In the time it takes anet to “fix” your entirely temporary issue, you could reach a level where it’s a non-issue. But no, you decide to be a player hat flips out over something that would resolve itself in as little as a week of play. You already have the solutions available. It’s not Anet’s problem to give an unnecessary solution because you dont want to use what’s already there.

I’ve gained 6 lvls since the patch, still no HP other then challenges I have done because they spent more HPs then I had on skills/specialization I don’t want.

They want me to eat a **** sandwich to get to a point I can customize my own character? Fine, but I have being eating and eating with no end on sight…

Vayne.8563:

Even from a casual point of view, most casuals wont’ care, because most people pay very little attention to builds. And the open world is easy enough even without a build.

It’s that very kind of condescending and flat out wrong statement that lead to the “no refunds, we choose your skills/specializations for you and spends HPs you don’t have” from ANET.

Claiming casual players don’t know or care about builds or are what? Unaware of skill calcs that exist in every MMO ever made? Is disingenuous at best insulting at worse.

The truth of the matter is that many of us have a problem with the way things were done, you guys don’t so you white knight ANET for a horrible decision, that’s all there is too it.

Kal Spiro.9745:

Drivrius.6159:

Vayne.8563:

Drivrius.6159:

Vayne.8563:

Drivrius.6159:

Vayne.8563:

Ataramos.3279:

Right now, I would -not- list this game as one to try for a new person. Not because it’s overly complicated, but because you are so crippled in your early choices that if you make a choice that makes a character utterly unfun to play, it ruins the entire game and experience for you. I wouldn’t be able to convince any friend of mine who feels that way to give another class a try, and I really wouldn’t ever want to say ‘well start over again on another of the same class and spend all that time leveling again and just choose something else’, because who in their right mind would really feel like that was a good choice and not a ‘waste of time’.

‘Level to 80’ or ‘Go into PvP and experiment there’ are not options. One means hours of unsatisfactory gameplay to possibly find out at the end that a class just isn’t something you want to play at all leaving you with an overall terrible taste for the game, and the other is forcing people into a playmode that they may not want to ever engage in. They took the PvP zones out of world explorer for a reason, not everyone wants to touch that. This really feels like ANet entirely dropping the ball and not considering all of their players.

Do you not realize that a new person wouldn’t have this problem at all. Not even a little. That is, a new person would be able to put the points wherever they want.

You missed the part where he points out your can’t try different builds while lvling, since with no way to get HP refunded you’re stuck with a particular build for a long while before you have enough HP to try a new one.

You have NEVER been able to try different builds while leveling. And since the open world is relatively easy, you don’t have to worry about them much until you’re 80. I never did.

From launch, you didn’t get traits unlocked fast enough to test any build unless you want to PvP.

That’s life in the big city.

I agree that is life in the cough “Big City” what he’s saying is that it didn’t have to be this way, if they has implemented a refund system not only would me and others not be in the current predicament but the game would have being better for new players.

Which ironically is one of the reasons they gave for not allowing any type of refund.

Once you have traits unlocked, you can change them out of combat whenever you want. Because you unlock them all by 80 anyway, there’s no reason to offer the refund and in most MMOs I’ve played you can’t buy a skill and go back and say I want a different one. You can change builds, but not unlocks.

I played Rift. I picked skills as I leveled. If I made a mistake, Id’ have to wait to have more points to buy more skills. Do you know a lot of MMOs that don’t work this way?

SWTOR = You don’t like your path or want to change your utilities? It’s refundable.
TERA = glyphs that affect your skills no longer good enough? Changeable on the fly.
DDO = Feats dragging you down? Consult your friendly Mindflayer Fred (no seriously, I’m not making that up)

And so on, the majority of MMOs allow the refund of customization points.

But if all that is not enough, or not close enough to GW2.

ESO = you get more skills points, thanks to quests, leveling up and sky shards then you’ll ever need for your build, still they have a refund option for skills purchased with said skill points.

These games your describing are games where you run out of available resources before you run out of skills. That’s why there is a refund available. This is a different type of game. That system isn’t relevant here.

ESO is an exception, if that is an accurate depiction of both the game and character builds. I didn’t play it nearly long enough to learn that much because it was terrible.

Yeah in ESO by lvl 30+ you can have enough skill points to have a finished build, the only think stopping you is the lvl restrictions, just like GW2.

Hell crafting is recommended just so those skill points are not completely wasted.

Kal Spiro.9745:

And THAT is why there is no refund. You give a refund if it’s not possible to buy everything. If you will run out of points before you run out of things to spend points on then a refund makes sense. If you run out of things to buy long before you run out of points, then there is no point.

Tell that to ESO, the devs there went the extra mile to make it possible to reset skills while giving your more skill points then you could possible need.

Vayne.8563:

Drivrius.6159:

Vayne.8563:

Drivrius.6159:

Vayne.8563:

Drivrius.6159:

Vayne.8563:

Ataramos.3279:

Right now, I would -not- list this game as one to try for a new person. Not because it’s overly complicated, but because you are so crippled in your early choices that if you make a choice that makes a character utterly unfun to play, it ruins the entire game and experience for you. I wouldn’t be able to convince any friend of mine who feels that way to give another class a try, and I really wouldn’t ever want to say ‘well start over again on another of the same class and spend all that time leveling again and just choose something else’, because who in their right mind would really feel like that was a good choice and not a ‘waste of time’.

‘Level to 80’ or ‘Go into PvP and experiment there’ are not options. One means hours of unsatisfactory gameplay to possibly find out at the end that a class just isn’t something you want to play at all leaving you with an overall terrible taste for the game, and the other is forcing people into a playmode that they may not want to ever engage in. They took the PvP zones out of world explorer for a reason, not everyone wants to touch that. This really feels like ANet entirely dropping the ball and not considering all of their players.

Do you not realize that a new person wouldn’t have this problem at all. Not even a little. That is, a new person would be able to put the points wherever they want.

You missed the part where he points out your can’t try different builds while lvling, since with no way to get HP refunded you’re stuck with a particular build for a long while before you have enough HP to try a new one.

You have NEVER been able to try different builds while leveling. And since the open world is relatively easy, you don’t have to worry about them much until you’re 80. I never did.

From launch, you didn’t get traits unlocked fast enough to test any build unless you want to PvP.

That’s life in the big city.

I agree that is life in the cough “Big City” what he’s saying is that it didn’t have to be this way, if they has implemented a refund system not only would me and others not be in the current predicament but the game would have being better for new players.

Which ironically is one of the reasons they gave for not allowing any type of refund.

Once you have traits unlocked, you can change them out of combat whenever you want. Because you unlock them all by 80 anyway, there’s no reason to offer the refund and in most MMOs I’ve played you can’t buy a skill and go back and say I want a different one. You can change builds, but not unlocks.

I played Rift. I picked skills as I leveled. If I made a mistake, Id’ have to wait to have more points to buy more skills. Do you know a lot of MMOs that don’t work this way?

SWTOR = You don’t like your path or want to change your utilities? It’s refundable.
TERA = glyphs that affect your skills no longer good enough? Changeable on the fly.
DDO = Feats dragging you down? Consult your friendly Mindflayer Fred (no seriously, I’m not making that up)

And so on, the majority of MMOs allow the refund of customization points.

But if all that is not enough, or not close enough to GW2.

ESO = you get more skills points, thanks to quests, leveling up and sky shards then you’ll ever need for your build, still they have a refund option for skills purchased with said skill points.

Hmm I don’t remember DDO being quite so friendly. There were things I unlocked there that I couldn’t change. I could change the build, but not the unlocks.

That’s what we’re’ talking about here, unlocks, not builds.

Fred can be used to re-specc feats (the unlocks you get every few lvls and depending on stats/class) with dragonshards, which are rare drops and rewards.

Stats and feats can be reset with hearts of wood, again rare drops and rewards.

Lastly skills trees and epic destinies can be reset for a small price.

And when the new skil ltree hit? Free hearts of wood for everyone.

Brian Ponder.9017:

Drivrius.6159:

I see, you’re at a impasse, no way to refute my argument so you revert to personal attacks, it’s ok it only says A LOT about yourself.

None of it was a personal attack, it’s just the honest truth. A truth you can’t seem to handle. =/

I’ll answer you, every MMO that I have ever played that had had a skill tree overhaul came with a free reset of all skills, we are talking Ragnarok Online, SWTOR, DDO, LOTRO, ESO and so on.

Never have I had to think deleting an existing character to be an option to the implementation of a new skill tree system.

Vayne.8563:

Drivrius.6159:

Vayne.8563:

Drivrius.6159:

Vayne.8563:

Ataramos.3279:

Right now, I would -not- list this game as one to try for a new person. Not because it’s overly complicated, but because you are so crippled in your early choices that if you make a choice that makes a character utterly unfun to play, it ruins the entire game and experience for you. I wouldn’t be able to convince any friend of mine who feels that way to give another class a try, and I really wouldn’t ever want to say ‘well start over again on another of the same class and spend all that time leveling again and just choose something else’, because who in their right mind would really feel like that was a good choice and not a ‘waste of time’.

‘Level to 80’ or ‘Go into PvP and experiment there’ are not options. One means hours of unsatisfactory gameplay to possibly find out at the end that a class just isn’t something you want to play at all leaving you with an overall terrible taste for the game, and the other is forcing people into a playmode that they may not want to ever engage in. They took the PvP zones out of world explorer for a reason, not everyone wants to touch that. This really feels like ANet entirely dropping the ball and not considering all of their players.

Do you not realize that a new person wouldn’t have this problem at all. Not even a little. That is, a new person would be able to put the points wherever they want.

You missed the part where he points out your can’t try different builds while lvling, since with no way to get HP refunded you’re stuck with a particular build for a long while before you have enough HP to try a new one.

You have NEVER been able to try different builds while leveling. And since the open world is relatively easy, you don’t have to worry about them much until you’re 80. I never did.

From launch, you didn’t get traits unlocked fast enough to test any build unless you want to PvP.

That’s life in the big city.

I agree that is life in the cough “Big City” what he’s saying is that it didn’t have to be this way, if they has implemented a refund system not only would me and others not be in the current predicament but the game would have being better for new players.

Which ironically is one of the reasons they gave for not allowing any type of refund.

Once you have traits unlocked, you can change them out of combat whenever you want. Because you unlock them all by 80 anyway, there’s no reason to offer the refund and in most MMOs I’ve played you can’t buy a skill and go back and say I want a different one. You can change builds, but not unlocks.

I played Rift. I picked skills as I leveled. If I made a mistake, Id’ have to wait to have more points to buy more skills. Do you know a lot of MMOs that don’t work this way?

SWTOR = You don’t like your path or want to change your utilities? It’s refundable.
TERA = glyphs that affect your skills no longer good enough? Changeable on the fly.
DDO = Feats dragging you down? Consult your friendly Mindflayer Fred (no seriously, I’m not making that up)

And so on, the majority of MMOs allow the refund of customization points.

But if all that is not enough, or not close enough to GW2.

ESO = you get more skills points, thanks to quests, leveling up and sky shards then you’ll ever need for your build, still they have a refund option for skills purchased with said skill points.

Vayne.8563:

Drivrius.6159:

Vayne.8563:

Ataramos.3279:

Right now, I would -not- list this game as one to try for a new person. Not because it’s overly complicated, but because you are so crippled in your early choices that if you make a choice that makes a character utterly unfun to play, it ruins the entire game and experience for you. I wouldn’t be able to convince any friend of mine who feels that way to give another class a try, and I really wouldn’t ever want to say ‘well start over again on another of the same class and spend all that time leveling again and just choose something else’, because who in their right mind would really feel like that was a good choice and not a ‘waste of time’.

‘Level to 80’ or ‘Go into PvP and experiment there’ are not options. One means hours of unsatisfactory gameplay to possibly find out at the end that a class just isn’t something you want to play at all leaving you with an overall terrible taste for the game, and the other is forcing people into a playmode that they may not want to ever engage in. They took the PvP zones out of world explorer for a reason, not everyone wants to touch that. This really feels like ANet entirely dropping the ball and not considering all of their players.

Do you not realize that a new person wouldn’t have this problem at all. Not even a little. That is, a new person would be able to put the points wherever they want.

You missed the part where he points out your can’t try different builds while lvling, since with no way to get HP refunded you’re stuck with a particular build for a long while before you have enough HP to try a new one.

You have NEVER been able to try different builds while leveling. And since the open world is relatively easy, you don’t have to worry about them much until you’re 80. I never did.

From launch, you didn’t get traits unlocked fast enough to test any build unless you want to PvP.

That’s life in the big city.

I agree that is life in the cough “Big City” what he’s saying is that it didn’t have to be this way, if they has implemented a refund system not only would me and others not be in the current predicament but the game would have being better for new players.

Which ironically is one of the reasons they gave for not allowing any type of refund.

Rauderi.8706:

Something is definitely amiss. I just went through levels 23 and 25 and got no hero points.

It’s “normal” as I found out, to shoehorn your character in a specialization and unlock the skills the algorithm thinks you wanted they spent more HP then you had.

Meaning you have a “HP debt” which you’ll need to catch up to before you have HP you can actually use.

I’ve gain 6 lvls since the patch, the only new HPs I have are from challenges.

Vayne.8563:

Ataramos.3279:

Right now, I would -not- list this game as one to try for a new person. Not because it’s overly complicated, but because you are so crippled in your early choices that if you make a choice that makes a character utterly unfun to play, it ruins the entire game and experience for you. I wouldn’t be able to convince any friend of mine who feels that way to give another class a try, and I really wouldn’t ever want to say ‘well start over again on another of the same class and spend all that time leveling again and just choose something else’, because who in their right mind would really feel like that was a good choice and not a ‘waste of time’.

‘Level to 80’ or ‘Go into PvP and experiment there’ are not options. One means hours of unsatisfactory gameplay to possibly find out at the end that a class just isn’t something you want to play at all leaving you with an overall terrible taste for the game, and the other is forcing people into a playmode that they may not want to ever engage in. They took the PvP zones out of world explorer for a reason, not everyone wants to touch that. This really feels like ANet entirely dropping the ball and not considering all of their players.

Do you not realize that a new person wouldn’t have this problem at all. Not even a little. That is, a new person would be able to put the points wherever they want.

You missed the part where he points out your can’t try different builds while lvling, since with no way to get HP refunded you’re stuck with a particular build for a long while before you have enough HP to try a new one.

Kal Spiro.9745:

Drivrius.6159:

Vayne.8563:

Drivrius.6159:

Kal Spiro.9745:

Drivrius.6159:

Arlee.7038:

Drivrius.6159:

“You guys know how every MMO we have ever played or even heard of refunds skill tree points when they make a major overhaul or sometimes even a small change to a skill within a tree?”

“Yeah well GW2 devs went the other route and spend them for you at seemingly random”

Once again, don’t blame the devs blame gd people who cried about losing their skills. Those people are the reason you are stuck with your temporary problem.

Drivrius.6159:

P.S. I have gained 5 lvls since the patch, not one Hero Point earned…

You only gain them on odd levels, and yes if you had more skills unlocked than you would have had in this system so you have a bit of a deficit. Still doesn’t change your problem is a temporary one.

Also still doesn’t change that my problem is being forced to play a character the way the devs want, not how I want…

I don’t care how temporary my problem is, when the only way to get around it is to play something I dislike.

This has nothing to do with the devs. The Devs didn’t go through each individual character and choose their build. They made an algorithm that weighed values of things. This method is invariably flawed for this precise reason. The flaw is just minor enough to not matter in the long run.

It has everything to do with the devs, they are the ones who opted for the algorithm rather then obvious solution.

The are also the ones who chose to not add a refund option and ultimately the ones who could fix that.

If the obvious solution takes more programming time, then it’s neither obvious nor a solution. All major projects have timetables and budgets.

It’s the standard MMO solution, I’m not re-inventing the wheel here, they didn’t feel like going the extra mile was worth it which the fact the patch also brought imbalance to PvP and PvE is further proof they might have needed to spend more time and resources on making the patch better before rushing it to meet a self imposed deadline.

Actually, no. They chose to go the extra mile of putting in extra effort to appease the complainers who didn’t want to rebuild their characters themselves. You want them to have gone another mile after that to then also appease people who can’t handle the minor inconvenience this has on a very small cluster of character levels.

Drivrius.6159:

Kal Spiro.9745:

Drivrius.6159:

Pifil.5193:

Drivrius.6159:

Actually it’s going to be more among the lines of:

“You guys know how every MMO we have ever played or even heard of refunds skill tree points when they make a major overhaul or sometimes even a small change to a skill within a tree?”

In guild wars 2 you can respec your traits and reorganise your skills for you build freely. So long as you’re out of combat. That’s the same as in other MMOs (but in the other ones I’ve played it’s never free).

In other games you tend to unlock new abilities as you level all the way to level cap, it’s the same with the Hero Points system, you earn points as you level and unlock new abilities with them but in the case of GW2 you can choose which new abilities you get at each level as you level. You don’t get Fireball at level 20 you get it when you decide you want it.

That’s what I’d tell my friends. You unlock abilities and use them as you level, without having access to everything. I think it’s a good way of learning what your profession can do.

You would tell your friends that because you’re not in my situation.

I could say what you say, but I would be lying in respect to my experience.

Right now I don’t get anything when i want it, I’ll eventually be able to but before that I have to play a character I basically did not make.

So then just delete it and start over. What will you lose? Honestly? Almost everything that matters is account bound now. Any bags you can bank. Your gear is meaningless cause you’re sub 80. If it’s such a big deal to you, why don’t you just start over?

There is your free reset right there.

Starting over from scratch is the best option to a choice outside of the players hand, can you even think of better proof that said change was wrong?

You must not have a lot of experience with MMOs if this is the first time you’ve played one and the result of a major patch had an effect where deleting and restarting your character is the best way to solve it. Specifically for a low to mid level character with nothing to lose.

I see, you’re at a impasse, no way to refute my argument so you revert to personal attacks, it’s ok it only says A LOT about yourself.

Brian Ponder.9017:

Drivrius.6159:

1st of all learn to read, the drop rate comparison wasn’t even advanced by me.

2nd it was my 1st and only character that got screwed, I played since the patch and only just got 6 new lvls with no end in sight for when I can I start customizing my own kitten character, because hey to force this specialization they “really” had to put me deep in HP debt…

No game I have ever played, specially not an MMO, has ever done something like take my character and all but play it for me and asked “keep playing it and eventually you get to customize it”.

So yeah my opinion of the game is not good, certainly not a game I would recommend to my friends and if by the time 29 days since I bought I still can’t play how I want I’ll ask for a refund and make sure no one I know plays this.

1. But you did touch on it.

2. Again, if your “first and only character” got screwed, then it’s not that big of a deal. Some people go from 1 to 80 in a WEEK. Your inability or refusal to correct it yourself isn’t any fault but your own.

Also, if your friends joined right now, they wouldn’t feel any effect of the patch, so really you’d just be lying to them if you said it would worsen their experience with the game.

=/

I never touched on it, I think you read someone else’s reply.

I wouldn’t be lying to them, they would ask what I think of the game:

“I don’t trust the dev team, they railroaded my character, I have never seeing this happen in any game I have ever played”

Which is all true.

Vayne.8563:

Drivrius.6159:

Kal Spiro.9745:

Drivrius.6159:

Arlee.7038:

Drivrius.6159:

“You guys know how every MMO we have ever played or even heard of refunds skill tree points when they make a major overhaul or sometimes even a small change to a skill within a tree?”

“Yeah well GW2 devs went the other route and spend them for you at seemingly random”

Once again, don’t blame the devs blame gd people who cried about losing their skills. Those people are the reason you are stuck with your temporary problem.

Drivrius.6159:

P.S. I have gained 5 lvls since the patch, not one Hero Point earned…

You only gain them on odd levels, and yes if you had more skills unlocked than you would have had in this system so you have a bit of a deficit. Still doesn’t change your problem is a temporary one.

Also still doesn’t change that my problem is being forced to play a character the way the devs want, not how I want…

I don’t care how temporary my problem is, when the only way to get around it is to play something I dislike.

This has nothing to do with the devs. The Devs didn’t go through each individual character and choose their build. They made an algorithm that weighed values of things. This method is invariably flawed for this precise reason. The flaw is just minor enough to not matter in the long run.

It has everything to do with the devs, they are the ones who opted for the algorithm rather then obvious solution.

The are also the ones who chose to not add a refund option and ultimately the ones who could fix that.

If the obvious solution takes more programming time, then it’s neither obvious nor a solution. All major projects have timetables and budgets.

It’s the standard MMO solution, I’m not re-inventing the wheel here, they didn’t feel like going the extra mile was worth it which the fact the patch also brought imbalance to PvP and PvE is further proof they might have needed to spend more time and resources on making the patch better before rushing it to meet a self imposed deadline.

Kal Spiro.9745:

Drivrius.6159:

Pifil.5193:

Drivrius.6159:

Actually it’s going to be more among the lines of:

“You guys know how every MMO we have ever played or even heard of refunds skill tree points when they make a major overhaul or sometimes even a small change to a skill within a tree?”

In guild wars 2 you can respec your traits and reorganise your skills for you build freely. So long as you’re out of combat. That’s the same as in other MMOs (but in the other ones I’ve played it’s never free).

In other games you tend to unlock new abilities as you level all the way to level cap, it’s the same with the Hero Points system, you earn points as you level and unlock new abilities with them but in the case of GW2 you can choose which new abilities you get at each level as you level. You don’t get Fireball at level 20 you get it when you decide you want it.

That’s what I’d tell my friends. You unlock abilities and use them as you level, without having access to everything. I think it’s a good way of learning what your profession can do.

You would tell your friends that because you’re not in my situation.

I could say what you say, but I would be lying in respect to my experience.

Right now I don’t get anything when i want it, I’ll eventually be able to but before that I have to play a character I basically did not make.

So then just delete it and start over. What will you lose? Honestly? Almost everything that matters is account bound now. Any bags you can bank. Your gear is meaningless cause you’re sub 80. If it’s such a big deal to you, why don’t you just start over?

There is your free reset right there.

Starting over from scratch is the best option to a choice outside of the players hand, can you even think of better proof that said change was wrong?

TwoGhosts.6790:

ANet considered their options and made a decision with the best of intentions.

Unfortunately it was a poor decision.

Yes, it doesn’t affect you if you’re 80.
Yes, the problem will diminish the more you level.
Yes, levelling is easy in this game.

Ergo, it’s not a big problem.

But it did create a problem for some players, and really it’s more about the principle of the thing. They spent a non-refundable in-game currency, that had been accrued by the player through time invested, without permission. Added to which, the automated decision making process turned up some absurd and utterly unwelcome results. And anyway, the process of deciding how to spend a currency on unlocking things is one of the fun areas of the game. In what universe did it seem like a great idea to deny players the opportunity to enjoy spending their own points in pursuit of desirable stuff?

Bizarre choice by ANet and one I hope they don’t repeat.

At best it was absurdly condescending to players. It might have been a bit easier to forgive if it had been well executed. But it wasn’t.

Shame.

~TG

Pretty much what I feel, the choice is so bizarre and unlike what any MMO out there would make that it just leave me with no trust for the dev team.

The fact they claimed it was to help new players seem kind of adding insult to injury, there was a specialization calc available the day the patch was released and I had my build ready only to find out I don,t get a say in it… not for many lvls.