Guild Wars 2

Death Shroud Doom will work through a stun (assuming you are already in Death Shroud). The Staff fear will not.

That said, you’ve an effective 2 seconds of fear every 32 seconds across two skills (only 1 second of AoE fear, assuming you trait into it) and give your enemy for free a 4 second AoE fear every 40 seconds.

But, taking the math out of the equation… you honestly believe 2 seconds worth of fear will be enough to not only get the poor kitten from stomping on your foe, but rez him as well?

As soon as you fear him, he’s just going to be angry, with his combat cooldowns primed, and your fears (only reliable CC) on cooldown. Before you can get your friend up, he’s going to smash your face while you’re prone and helpless trying to get your fellow helpless friend up.

Couldn’t ask for a better sitting duck. At least a downed player can defend himself somewhat.

Of course, you could always simply engage the one doing the stomping directly once he’s feared off… and all he has to do to make sure your friend doesn’t rez up is send a ranged autoattack his way every time he starts putting his hand up to heal himself and he’ll die, meanwhile your fears are exhausted already and you’re caught in a 1v1, which is not where the Necromancer in GW2 shines.

You put yourself from a position of options to a position of vulnerability.

On the flip side, you could let him sit through the 5 second long animation to stomp on your friend, save your fears, and stack a ridiculous number of conditions on him. Your friend will die, and your fears will be ready. At the same time, your enemy will walk away from your dead friend severely wounded and crippled/frozen. Then you can fear your enemy to interrupt channeling skills instead of the stomp, you survive, and kill him.

You can then revive your friend.

Fear is better spent as a combat skill interrupt – not as a means of getting someone off of a downed friend.

The only time I’d recommend that is if you’re moving in on the attacker 3+v1 so that, even without your fears, you are guaranteed success against a possibly superior opponent.

Just hope the downed player you’re trying to help is worth helping, isn’t kitten and uses his downed skills to interrupt the stomp himself.

alanis.6094:

Enerjak.2475:

So that I understand this correctly… you’re advocating the Axe in PvP? And you cite a 1 second fear as meaningful (particularly since our very presence in PvP gives enemy Thieves a free 4 second fear on a 40sec CD)?

…

……

………

…right.

Moving on…

@OP… Necro can perform in WvW. A mark/well build can lock down choke points and towers rather easily. An Epidemic conditionmancer will provide the same results. Minions are useless and you’re hurting yourself if you’re using them in PvP of any sort, to include WvW (particularly with all the AoE flying around).

Aaaaaand… that’s it.

Don’t expect to go direct damage as a Necro in PvP and be taken seriously. Otherwise you’re in good shape.

Keep in mind that there are very many important WvW battles that don’t involve keeps, sieges, or big zergs.

A few other points:

-Despite the sillyness that Thieves with stealing fear, our version is actually quite powerful, especially for stomps and rezzes.

-The damaging wells are based off of power, as well as our Marks. Power Well/Staff/Dagger or Axe builds can do pretty nice AoE direct damage.

I did note that Mark/Well builds are very viable (I run one myself with an alternate set of armor to maximize). You really don’t need to educate me on that.

You fear for 1 second on a stomp/rez. Great. It’s on cooldown for 30 seconds. Wonderful.

In 1 skill, a Thief shadow-steps to you at point blank, and gains a 4 second AoE fear on a 40 second cooldown. He can do this to you as many times as he wants until you’re dead. This, noting that Necromancer is deemed by the developers as the “Fear-specialized” class.

I do hope you see the difference. The first isn’t very meaningful in WvW (the time wasted casting the fear, I could probably have stacked 5 other conditions on the poor kitten, and let him rez… then pop Epidemic and laugh my kitten off as both of them now drop dead).

A fear will only stop them from rezzing for 1 second. Might be enough, might not.

By not fearing, I’ve just killed 2 birds with 1 stone.

Sometimes it is very good to bait your opponent. Their fallen allies is a superb way to do so.

Radiodread.8469:

The utility that turn boons into conditions is a favorite of mine. I love watching guardians that get to 50% and pop “Save Yourselves!” for all the buffs. It never fails. Once they do, I convert all those to conditions, unload my own conditions, and then epidemic. It is a beautiful thing.

I do have to admit, this is a very fun moment, even with how displeased I am with the class at the moment. Particularly with 2,200+ Condition Damage stat (1500+ from gear, +350 or more from Might, +250 from Sigil, +100 from food).

Kaikas.4631:

Pros:
- Incredibly tanky if build right
- Mass retaliation with axe
- Mass cripple with axe
- Fear enemys from the rams
- Strong AoE with Staff
- Strong AoE with Wells (even tagetable if specced)
- Spread conditions to the enemy zerg
- Pull enemys from walls
- 2 Speed buffs, which let you travel really fast
- Lich form to kill the occasional roamer
- AoE Blindness for the enemy zerg
- …

In my eyes the Necro is one of the strongest WvW classes around. It’s only sPvP where it really feels meh, but that is off topic.

So that I understand this correctly… you’re advocating the Axe in PvP? And you cite a 1 second fear as meaningful (particularly since our very presence in PvP gives enemy Thieves a free 4 second fear on a 40sec CD)?

…

……

………

…right.

Moving on…

@OP… Necro can perform in WvW. A mark/well build can lock down choke points and towers rather easily. An Epidemic conditionmancer will provide the same results. Minions are useless and you’re hurting yourself if you’re using them in PvP of any sort, to include WvW (particularly with all the AoE flying around).

Aaaaaand… that’s it.

Don’t expect to go direct damage as a Necro in PvP and be taken seriously. Otherwise you’re in good shape.

Necro can perform… by the developer’s own admission, and I quote: “Mesmer may be the most difficult class to learn – but Necromancer is the most difficult class to master.”

Bear that, and the fact that our bug list is about 4x the size of any other profession and our core mechanic is very underwhelming by comparison, and you should be good to go.

Also, don’t try ti 1v1 Thieves. Your best fear is 1.5second specc’d into it, they can steal a 4 second fear from you every 40 seconds or so. You actually make them significantly more powerful.

GW2 is still young. Most everyone here understands that. There are actually fewer problems for a budding title here than there were elsewhere (WoW or Aion, anyone?).

The unfortunate truth is also however that it is significantly easier to hack than many other titles, particularly as a new release and release bugs able to mask many actions otherwise banable. The game is new, so many believe there is more incentive to hack to advance faster/better.

The other half of that is we can safely assume most, if not all, of these hackers will walk away unpunished. I do often have to wonder… I found 2 GW2 hacking software packages with a simple google search, including instructions on how to download, install, and use to “maximize potential”.

Is ArenaNet even taking the five minutes out of their day to do what I did in that time by myself as a concerned consumer to rectify the issue?

Dariroch.6482:

I find it sad that people are so focused on the min/maxing thing that they think scepter is the only weapon for necro’s. I haven’t even had a scepter in my inventory for the last month.

For my play style scepter sucks. With the amount of condition removal that exists why would you kitten 2-3 other weapon slots to give one a chance to do some damage with scepter. Even if you go scepter/dagger speccing for more condition damage not only kittens your other weapon(s) because they’re going to be power based, not to mention all of your attacks in death shroud are power based.

Until they make condition damage the same as power I wont be worrying about anything condition based in my specs.

I currently run dagger/war horn, axe/ focus and staff when need be. 30 0 0 20 20

I think if people focused on what cc and abilites will keep them alive longer there will be a lot less qq on these forums about how imbalanced x class is over the necro.

Because a 1 second fear (we give thieves free 3-4 second AoE fears every 40 seconds when we fight them) is a great method of CC.

After all, the rest of our “CC” (cripple, freeze, etc) is… wait for it… wait…

…CONDITION DAMAGE!!! That wonderful and fantastic thing you denounced in your post!!!

…

Moving on…

On a more serious note, I do have to ask… Axe? Really? 30/0/0/20/20 with an Axe at that? What’s your crit rate (preferably with SS evidence)? I imagine in the range of about 40-45%, provided you have Precision armor and accessories at least to compensate. Still 25% less than it should be for a reliable DPS build.

Going off your trait setup, going to assume you’re trying to capitalize on Death Shroud. The problem however is you aren’t running the GM DS trait, you’re also not running with your primary lockdown traits that make DS semi-usable with that lineup. You’re also not capitalizing your LF to truly specialize in DS.

Particularly with Axe’s kitten poor performance… D/D outperforms it for direct damage output, AND provides small sustainability.

My Staff hits harder.

That said, I’m going to assume you’re trying to “jack-of-all-trades” it… and I’m also going to assume you’re spending more time in PvE than anything, taking those experiences and trying to say that the class is fine (even with over 100 listed bugs, several of which class-breaking).

After all… if you took that setup into s/tpvp, you’d have learned rather quickly (I hope) that it doesn’t hold up in direct combat. Given the lack of support capability of such a build, as well as the lack of AoE functionality, I would assume the same of WvW.

Of course… that is also assuming that you weren’t completely fixated on yourself to be truly critical of your own performance to examine improvement.

Zindel.8673:

I’m pretty sure if there is hacking going on in the game, its NOT limited to one or a few servers, and to claim GOM’s success in WvW this week is due to hacking is for conspiracy theorist and whiners. We’re not inviting them to our server, we’re not participating in their actions, and we’re too busy in EB, playing as a team, executing planned attacks, to pay attention to the group of hackers on your servers….doing the same thing.

Thanks for the cake.

Oh, trust me, I’m sure Sorrow’s Furnace, like any other server, is doing it as well. That’s why I didn’t call out GoM server for doing it, rather the small groups I have provided evidence to ANet that I witnessed.

I also did the same thing for the small contingent form SoR I witnessed last week.

I’m not picking on GoM. I’m certain there are many fine people and guilds there. I enjoyed fighting SoR immensely the last two weeks, fantastic fights. But they still had those couple bad apples.

I would take even more effort in attacking and destroying the hackers of SF than I would in GoM or SoR, because all of that dishonesty would be done in my name, my guild’s name, and my server’s name. I’d be twice as diligent in seeing they are reported properly.

@Sirenic – I am not calling out your guild. I won’t even name the 2 guilds that I found doing the hacking. I’ve better sense and dignity than that.

Yours was not among them, however – that much I will say. At least from the reports and video I sent to ANet.

I can’t speak for anyone else, so I’ll let you hash that out with them directly.

Even Omnomberry Bars are a sink, you don’t make money off that by comparison. The dyes take so many resources to make that you’re not making comparable profit imho, particularly for time invested in gathering the necessary ingredients.

@Zaganna – Granted, every class can function in PvE. I won’t berate it to say PvE is a complete joke (explorable mode dungeons are probably some of the hardest PvE I’ve seen in MMOs and worth mentioning).

However, to compare the Necromancer to other classes, that requires PvP. It requires PvP AGAINST these classes, as well as with.

The point of the matter – if you had a lineup of all 8 professions, equal gear/skill, and you had your pick of which one you would take as your ally in PvP?

If you have experience in PvP, Necromancer will not be your first choice.

…or second… or third… or fourth…

The point is we would like to see it to the point that you’d have to sit and think whether you’d take Necromancer or X class first in that list, just as it should be with any class.

That is not the current state of affairs.

Exceptional players can be “good” Necromancers. But they will never be “great” Necromancers no matter how skilled they are, because the mechanics aren’t there. If the same effort were applied to other professions, they’d be Gods.

But… we just happen to enjoy Necromancer, even with more bugs than 3/4 of the other classes all combined… even if our profession mechanic is EXTREMELY underwhelming… even if we are laughed out of PvP and most parties.

Doesn’t mean there isn’t truth in WHY the profession is laughed at.

I was lucky enough to hit 400 before the karma was changed. However, now that I’m here... I’m at a loss.

Some of the consumables made are great (+40% Condition Duration, +70 Condition Damage for us Necros as an example). The process of procuring these mats however is asinine. I find myself buying gems to turn into gold just to get them from the TP in large enough quantities to supply my guild, and I make it a point to selectively choose those recipies that don’t require too many "off-ingredients)... those that require 1-3 pieces that I can find relatively easier.

This of course heavily limits my ability to make maximum use of my own craft. A difficulty I should not have after hitting 400 with the kitten thing.

You do have low DPS, and your minions are unreliable at the same time. You also have no utility. You’re just… there. Taking up space better used on a Warrior or Guardian for more damage and equal survivability.

When you can deal 14k+ damage in 1 skill, then we’ll talk about Necromancer DPS.

MMs are at the bottom of the totem pole in that regard. 1-2 AoEs kills them all, neutering that DPS. A condition build will deal more DOT as well as (in many cases) more DD output. A Mark/Well build is capable of AoE and if built properly will deal massively greater damage than an MM, particularly to multiple targets.

I realize it hurts to hear. MMs were once among the most feared opponents in GW1. 1 MM could take on a whole party with 12 minions (stacking Death Magic beyond 20), impervious to 75% of all incoming damage, immune to conditions, and plenty of healing.

GW2? MMs are perhaps the easiest thing in PvP to destroy, across all professions and builds. Necromancers are already the bottom of the totem pole, but MMs would be what was buried to put that totem pole up in the first place.

Which is extremely sad, given how much I enjoy MM.

I’d lean to “yes, there is a sixth”, simply as it leads to the evolution of expansions. If I gather the business model, ArenaNet will likely unleash an expansion for each dragon’s storyline.

ecthelion.6794:

But more than just being battle-loving nomads, they also continuously seek out stronger opponents, like… oh… that hyper militaristic race with their capital just to the East, the Charr.

The Charr actually did engage the Norn. Several Flame and Blood Legion warbands (the equivalent of an advance raiding force, not at all anywhere near the strength of one legion, far less all of them) seeking to expand their homelands in the Far Shiverpeaks marched west, where they encountered the Norn.

Naturally, Charr on a quest to dominate and the prideful, independent Norn clashed with blood and steel.

The warbands were defeated and sent back to Charr territory.

Following the liberation from the Flame Legion, the Charr would encounter the Norn again, this time with renewed respect for their strength and combat capability. It was noted in the lore that if the Charr so much as turned one full legion to the task of destroying the Norn and conquering the Shiverpeaks it would be done, but they are not stupid.

Because you are hyper-militaristic does not mean you cannot think strategically. The Charr are incredibly intelligent, even if their appearance doesn’t always lead to that conclusion. If anything, because you spent the entire history of your race in perpetual war, you would be perhaps the most strategically adept in the world.

They saw an ally in the Norn, and rather than attack that ally as Hitler did to the Soviet Union at the beginning stages of WWII rather than finishing off England when they were down to 99 planes left in their entire Air Force, otherwise completely defeated against the best council of his ranking military advisor Goering… they decided their military might was better spent elsewhere.

After all, the Charr still had their hands full with the humans, the Flame Legion, separatists, the Dragons, etc etc etc.

To defeat the Norn, they’d have to divert the attention of an entire legion… which would cripple them on all fronts.

A race that has devoted their entire existence to war would be able to figure that out. Hyper-militarism, and even a desire for domination, does not exempt you from creating treaties and allies for your survival (if anything, it would be encouraged).

Teknomancer.8475:

Enerjak
I was understanding from previous posts by other necros that anything really above 1600 condition damage was really irrelevant. Sadly I took someones word and ran with it . However in your post you are outlining that 2100+ is what you run with. Can you list what gear you are using and food sigil some of that etc stuff out. I’m sure others would love to copy that template of gear for themselves. Also what damage numbers are you seeing in the 2100+ condition damage area. Like how much does each tick for?
Sorry for the barrage of questions on a Monday =(

Much love,
Madame Moorshade Teknomancer.

I’m at work or I’d put together the full build on a template. PM me in game this evening and remind me if you’re still interested. As mentioned, others have hit numbers higher than me supposedly, so would also consider asking them.

For food/sigils specifically however, Superior Corruption (250), I keep Rare Veggie Pizza (40% condition duration, 70 condition damage) on me, though also use Bowl of Truffle Risotto (100 Condition Damage, +70 Precision) on occasion… being 400 Chef is fun.

Suffice to say however all gear, all weapons, etc wield the cap for Condition Damage along with all bonuses I can muster.

I do the same thing with Vitality/Toughness for tanking, Power/Crit for D/D, etc and have multiple sets.

Edit: I will FRAPS a TA run tonight so you can see some of the condition numbers.

Dibrom.6408:

Enerjak.2475:

Difference between 1,000 condition damage and 1,200 condition damage isn’t significant.

But, the difference between 1,000 condition damage and 2,200 condition damage (what I run standard when I swap to condition build) is significant.

Well, let me correct myself… it’s 2,148, but same difference.

1502 is the max a necro can get to without food.

Food, Sigils, etc. I count the full number I’m using when actually applying those conditions.

There are Necros supposedly running around with higher than that.

TehGFreeman.1534:

My Biggest bug pet peeve is Plague Signet it kinda ruined my support build for now XD

This.

Nice to see Chilblains works though.

One bug down… 9,001 to go.

ANet standard response, “When it’s done.”

I don’t like MMs in GW2 (5 minions with maybe 1 occasional Jagged Horror that dies in 5 seconds that you can’t re-summon easily versus the 12 I could run in GW1? Blech). But, I understand how/why some may want it.

I honestly liked the first iteration of Necro MM in GW2… Bone Minions summoned 3 instead of 2, and a trait added +2 Bone Minions to make 5… Bone Fiend summons 2 with a trait, etc… It was possible to get 10 minions functional.

Sucks now. So, I moved on to conditions, wells, tanking, etc.

Difference between 1,000 condition damage and 1,200 condition damage isn’t significant.

But, the difference between 1,000 condition damage and 2,200 condition damage (what I run standard when I swap to condition build) is significant.

Well, let me correct myself… it’s 2,148, but same difference.

But then I am the type of player that likes to go all-or-nothing. If I want condition damage, I spec fully into that ideal and be the best condition nuisance I can. If I want survivability, I will spec to maintain the highest degree of survivability possible, even at the sacrifice of other specs.

This is probably why I have several armor/weapon sets. Thank Grenth for multiple 20-slot bags.

But, this is my playstyle. Something I do try to maintain on all builds, regardless of what it is built for, is a Crit rate of at minimum 50% (what I run on my survival build). My pure condition build maintains 68% by contrast.

I will very often be two entirely different builds between two different fights, and often tailor my build to my party I’m running with (no Guardian and an Ele that doesn’t want to do anything but D/D? Should probably put on my survival gear…)

I agree with Sojourner, though not certain how wide-spread the issue is or if I can confirm his estimation of the severity is accurate. I’ve seen what one small group with these hacks can do. I’ve seen the hack software and how it is used specifically (two different software packages).

I didn’t see the zerg appear as he did. I saw small groups perform these tasks from both SoR and now GoM.

But, given what I have seen, I will not say it isn’t possible.

The skill itself is currently bugged. I still use it for condition stacking, but infuriates me that it doesn’t do what it is supposed to do.

I enjoy Necro. I know it is ridiculously foiled with bugs (more than most of the classes combined and many class-breaking). I still enjoy the general concept of the playstyle.

Will wait and see if the bugs are addressed, and meantime do what I can.

Perhaps they never will, and I’ll simply be clinging to the nastalgia of how OP we were in GW1.

The greatest cons of any condition build currently in my opinion are the bugs afflicting it… most notably (again in my opinion), the use of Plague Signet (a fantastic and wonderful skill both for support utility and, combined with Epidemic, putting maximum conditions on your foes… if it would… you know… actually work right).

All of that in the first 38 seconds. kitten Kayotik, he’s obviously not a pro, but did you have to be that honest? :P

While more blunt than I’d have put it, I do agree with most everything Kayotik pointed out. I cannot note this as a viable build, nor a viable portray of our effectiveness.

Another list of bugs to add to the long list of Necromancer.

“If you don’t like it, don’t play it”.

Wow. I normally try to stay away from direct insults… but what a crock of horse kitten.

“You don’t enjoy being bugged, but you really enjoy the play style itself of the Necromancer, go play something else anyway!”

Inept moron. Silly argument made by children who cannot grow the balls to actually address the issue at hand, and instead run away.

“NO! Don’t fix the problem itself! That would make sense! Just… just run away! That’ll work!”

The bugs listed here: https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/necromancer/Necromancer-bugs-compilation-NB64-NT15-NP6/first are impossible to deny. The profession is broken. ArenaNet even acknowledges it.

“NOOOOOO!!! You’re just bad! Don’t enjoy being bugged and broken doing something you actually do enjoy? RUUUUUNNNN!!”

Pathetic.

Thief fear is 3-4 seconds when stolen from us. I believe Doom should be that much, and Doom’s functionality (1sec fear) swapped into the Thief when stolen. Death Shroud is already extremely underwhelming (particularly when put side by side with the mechanic of other classes). This would, by itself, make it far more usable and possibly even enough by itself to forgive the rest.

I also agree that our ranged AoE fear is fine.

Speccing into Fear, I believe you’re deluding yourself, however. +50% duration of a 1 second fear is still only 1.5sec, you can’t even visually distinguish the difference, and just wasted a major trait better spent elsewhere (particularly with the HUUUUUUUGE list of bugs for our profession).

I didn’t say all of GoM cheats… just as I didn’t say that about SoR last week. I found some of SoR who cheated, I found out how they did it, and sent that info to ArenaNet.

Now that I know how members of SoR did it, I know how members of GoM are doing it here.

However, even if 1% (a VERY small number) are using these software hacks, that 1% is suddenly more powerful than the entirety of the other 2 servers you’re opposing altogether. Nothing can really stop them. SF and EBay can assemble both of their entire zergs, join forces and strike directly at these 1% GoMs, and will be defeated. No point.

Not saying they all do… but enough of them do hack that it is destroying WvW.

riotnrrrd.9582:

too much to read but i spvp my necro and do rather well long as im not solo against 2 or more

i use this build
http://www.guildhead.com/skill-calc#czVm0cc9MoMhrMoMhrM0GGx0MsMkMRb

Many here do well with Necromancer, myself included. We know how to build it. We know how to run it. We know what it is capable of, and implement it well.

The point of this thread is not “Necromancer is useless”.

The point of this thread is “Necromancer is a bugged POS and while you can be a good Necro, you will never be a great Necro because the mechanics are flawed.”

If the same amount of effort were put into any other class, you’d find far greater performance.

It’s similar to a 30 year old car that’s never seen 1 day of preventive maintenance since it left the factory, takes a half hour just to start up, and has a top speed of 20mph before the wheels start to fall off… sure, it runs. It’ll get you from point A to point B… but are you honestly going to compare that to a brand new mustang?

I reported the source of 2 prominent hacking softwares (added a whole bunch of little “goodies” such as teleportation, no-obstacle (could fly, run through the ground, through walls/mountains, bots, etc in 1-2 “convenient” little tools) as well as how to download and run them to ArenaNet already that were being used by small groups in SoR. Here’s hoping something gets done about that (whether it be tracking their use and banning, or blocking their functionality altogether).

I know this is not all of them… there are likely dozens… but perhaps that will be a blow to these worthless losers.

My guild watched the orb magical teleporting the other day as well… I believe that is the moment we decided to withdraw from the battle and just focus on our own objectives (gearing up, helping our lower level members get through storylines and xp, building up our crafting, etc).

If ITM decides they need reinforcements, we’re there if we’re called upon… though otherwise I know a lot of SF who are angry about this being the 2nd week in a row this kitten is done to us, and are quickly losing any interest in WvW, as great and fun as it is.

I predict SF will pull profit at week’s end by selling GoM on EBay for a win.

@Squirrel – I’d have to answer that final question with “No”, simply given the Guardian can survive just as well as the Necromancer with higher damage output, fully capable of the attrition mechanic themselves along with the added mechanic of being able to lock down enemies with terrain control, stuns, conditions, while simultaneously being arguably the best party/zerg support tool in the game with virtues and concentrations.

And that is simply one clear example of several.

I’ve played attrition characters on many occasions for many years (that is after all what tanks are when you boil it down – the ability to survive the burst of your enemy and widdle your enemies down after their cooldowns are wasted). I enjoy it.

Perhaps with bugs properly fixed, the Necro won’t seem so bad at that… but I did make the point that to properly fill the attrition mechanic to proportion with the primary mechanics of other professions, we’d need to see a massive overhaul regardless.

Auruan.2837:

And that is what the player character could have been for. To aid him as a friend and dear companion, rather than a nameless pawn for him to push around… a pawn whose glory he keeps on stealing by pretending he was the one doing all the hard work.

And if he says, “Commander, to me.” like a dog one more time, I’m going to shove my staff so far up his rectum that he’ll taste it in his throat and love it before summoning Mr. Huggles from inside him to give his internal organs a big ol’ squeeze with those machete-like arms…

Rhyis.7058:

Is an explanation actually necessary? Just play necro in WvW for a time then switch to a class that isn’t ranger or elementalist and make the comparison yourself.

WvW is based almost entirely on AoE at 1200 range and survivability, of which necromancer has an abundance of both. Seems fairly obvious to me once you’ve laid down the theory crafting and actually played WvW as a bunch of classes.

Plenty of AoE at 1200 range… because all of your marks and wells combined will deal about 5k-7k total output combined… an Elementalist can deal that in 1-2 skills… A Ranger can double that with their entire AoE range lineup… But, you said don’t mention classes that are better at it than Necro, so moving on…

…WvW isn’t just about ranged AoE. How do you think anyone even makes any pushes or takes any territory?

I can promise it wasn’t because of that really good Necro in the back line.

Why do you think wars can’t be won purely by long range missiles?

In every major battle (or even something as small as a party vs a party) a push is necessary, whereas the Warriors, Thieves, etc push in with that ridiculous burst damage and AoE, taking the terrain from the enemy.

No zerg is going to be pushed back by 50 Necros with Marks/Wells.

They will however be pushed back by 10-15 Warriors/Thieves/Eles.

Whoever wins those pushes is what wins WvW. Necro just seems good at it because they’re in the back casting the Wells and not dying – even if comparatively they’re doing nearly nothing.

I know… I run a Mark/Well build in WvW. I’m also quite good with it (as if it takes any skill at all to be a Mark/Well build… just lay down your AoEs and watch tiny numbers pop up by comparison to your peers).

Truth sucks, I know. I love Necro and noting these things is a kitten. But I’m honest enough to acknowledge them.

If I were to take the same effort from my Necro, and put it into my Ele, Guardian, Warrior, Thief, or Ranger… I’d be OP.

For Necro, that effort simply gets you by however, not enough to stand out.

Next week SoR will get Fort Aspenwood and Yak’s Bend. Supreme night capping at its perfection, and a ridiculous zerg 3x larger than anything SoR has mustered to date.

>:D

Rhyis.7058:

Necro is one of the better WvW classes out there.

Generally when making a bold claim, it is appreciated to provide evidence. But, I’ll break down the key WvW utilities and see if we can isolate where this comes from.

Moving on…

We truly do rule in WvW.

@ Sir William – We love our WTF moments.

Sundial.9015:

Context: All I do is WvW, Dungeons, Dynamic Events

You just listed the entire game outside of spvp.

To be fair, if they did repair the bugs, we would be much stronger – but still not as strong as the other classes in every measurable field of context from survivability to dps to dot to utility to healing.

We would reign in condition stacking after bugs are repaired however. The problem?

Every class without exception has an I Win button against condition players… Push 1 button and magically all conditions go away.

To coincide this, our only condition that isn’t easily removed – fear – is 1-1.5 second (if traited), we only have 2 skills available (assuming you have a staff) that inflict it at all (stuns and knockdowns are by FAR superior), often on a ridiculously long cooldown, and Thieves can steal a 3 second AoE fear (twice as long as any of ours) whenever they want. Suddenly us having fear is actually twice as effective at giving it to our enemies to use against us.

In direct combat, being a condition class suddenly means absolutely nothing.

Billy Mcfloy.4830:

I appreciate that. People like you are always trying to help us out and point out our bad apples that we cannot find but never seem to have a screeny or video.

I encountered something very similar in Aion, and when reported to NCSoft, they managed a way to track it. 2 massive ban sweeps later, the website hosting the software closed itself down.

Here’s hoping something similar takes place here – or better yet, they develop a means of countering these things from happening altogether.

Billy Mcfloy.4830:

Enerjak.2475:

I did find a location where 2 hack programs for GW2 were being distributed and supported, and reported it to ANet after watching a handful of SoR magically teleport beyond one of our walls.

One was an “all-in-one” package capable of teleportation to waypoints (whether found or not), skillpoint locations, PoIs, etc pre-scripted. It also granted speed alterations by percentile, and added a “no-gravity” function that doubled to allow you to not only fly, but not be blocked by terrain/objects (such as the ground, or a wall).

The other was simply the teleportation script similar to the first, and added a bot function.

Unfortunately as both of these “tools” were reported to ArenaNet as well as the website they are being distributed from, I was asked not to give names or information of how to find them.

However, I should note that while I witnessed particular members of SoR server performing this, I am not incriminating the server. I would imagine some from all servers have found these two (or other) software packages and are using them to exploit the game.

Hopefully with this information as well as the software itself now in ANet’s hands, they can directly counter it, or at least track it. I’ve done my part.

ArenaNet:

We will use the information you have provided to investigate this program. However, as we will not disclose what information we obtain or how we use it, you will likely not hear from us again regarding this issue.

I appreciate your support of Guild Wars 2 and your interest in keeping the game world and the websites associated with the game pleasant for all players.

Regards,
Nick
Guild Wars Support Team
http://support.guildwars2.com

Oh really, this is news to me never witnessed or seen any screenshots yet since release of game on SoR. You surely took some screenshots if you saw things like that, who wouldn’t? Could you show so we can keep an eye on them and cleanup our side?

The wife did one better – she FRAPS’s our WvWs together and we’ve it in a video I believe.

I’ll scrounge it up tonight when I get off work and see if I can post it here.

I did find a location where 2 hack programs for GW2 were being distributed and supported, and reported it to ANet after watching a handful of SoR magically teleport beyond one of our walls.

One was an “all-in-one” package capable of teleportation to waypoints (whether found or not), skillpoint locations, PoIs, etc pre-scripted. It also granted speed alterations by percentile, and added a “no-gravity” function that doubled to allow you to not only fly, but not be blocked by terrain/objects (such as the ground, or a wall).

The other was simply the teleportation script similar to the first, and added a bot function.

Unfortunately as both of these “tools” were reported to ArenaNet as well as the website they are being distributed from, I was asked not to give names or information of how to find them.

However, I should note that while I witnessed particular members of SoR server performing this, I am not incriminating the server. I would imagine some from all servers have found these two (or other) software packages and are using them to exploit the game.

Hopefully with this information as well as the software itself now in ANet’s hands, they can directly counter it, or at least track it. I’ve done my part.

ArenaNet:

We will use the information you have provided to investigate this program. However, as we will not disclose what information we obtain or how we use it, you will likely not hear from us again regarding this issue.

I appreciate your support of Guild Wars 2 and your interest in keeping the game world and the websites associated with the game pleasant for all players.

Regards,
Nick
Guild Wars Support Team
http://support.guildwars2.com

kinderghast.8501:

For all the bugs, this is personally what saddens me more – even if they fix all the bugs, and all the traits work as intended, we will still be left with tratis and bonuses that appear to have been done at the 11th hour with absolutely no plan.

Which is very sad, given Necromancer was among the first professions released and they’ve had the most time to iron it out.

I love Necromancer, if for nothing else than tribute to GW1 in how OP we were and how much fun they were. I still do have fun, but I have to put in 3x the effort to get the same results as other classes.

I have a Guardian, Warrior, Thief, Elementalist, Engineer, and Necromancer… If I apply the same effort I do with my Necro into my other classes, I’m a wrecking ball that cannot be stopped, whereas the Necro is just getting by.

“But Necro takes pro mastery to be good”… Perhaps. And maybe I’m just not that good.

But no matter how “good” you are at Necro, you will never be a great Necro, because the class itself isn’t designed currently for greatness and regardless of fanboying, self ego stroking, etc… that will not be changed.

Teknomancer.8475:

Enerjak
I didn’t say it was a good idea of balance or that it was 100% the reason they did it . It’s just my opinion of how condition damage got balanced the way it is. Also further in my post I also address that this particular type of balancing ( if it is how and why they did it) is not working with pretty much the same example you give.
So while no one LIKES how we work out currently, I am offering what I think is the explanation as to how our class ended up like it did.

Happy Thirsty Thursday
Madame Moorshade Teknomancer.

I did read further into the post, and you’re correct. My apologies.

While that may be their reasoning for doing so, every other class in the game has the capacity of some hefty condition stacking, not just Necromancers. That said, they get the best of both worlds… conditions AND burst… and survivability… and utility…

Comparing the mechanic to Engineer, Warrior, or Guardian is just asinine in my opinion (I would have included Elementalist, but 12k HP to our 28k is worth noting).

Not to mention that the Thief is capable of stealing a fear from the Fear Specialty class of the game that lasts 3x as long as any of their fears – and is AoE (even when traited into fears… a 1 second fear is still only 1.5 seconds with 50% additional duration).

Necromancer just seems a profession the devs tried to make suck at everything, but possible to touch every field.

Ranger and Mesmer pets are superior.

Guardian and Thief conditions are on par with greater burst output.

The class has no burst output to speak of (whatever “good” numbers you can hit on your Necro, I promise my Warrior will trump you every single time and without exception).

Survivability took a major hit when we lost a reliable way to gain life force and now is trumped by Warriors and Guardians.

Utility is trumped 10x over again by Elementalist, Guardian, and Mesmer.

Elites are unspecialized (if you’re not an MM and using anything but Lich Form, you’re nerfing yourself – and even Lich Form is immediately neutralized by Moa Form, cannot enter death shroud, laughable damage output, no reliable conditions to stack, and has no sustainability on a long cooldown).

Every other class without exception trumps at CC (fear is 1-2 seconds max even when traited, and only a Staff and Death Shroud inflict it reliably with long cooldowns and we actually GIVE our enemy a fear that lasts 3x longer than our own in the Theif’s steal – no other CC other than chill/cripple available which is trumped by other classes).

Almost no movement skills other than Spectral Walk, which is so specialized that it’s silly to try to fit into many staple builds.

AoE versatility trumped by Elementalist Staff, Guardian Greatsword, Guardian Hammer, Warrior Greatsword, Thief shortbow, Engineers with EVERYTHING but pistols, etc.

No terrain control…

It makes you stop and wonder… is there anything the Necromancer does that is superior – or at least on par – with the other professions?

Or more importantly – is there anything the Necromancer does that is so greatly superior to the other classes that these shortcomings are forgivable?

ptitminou.6489:

I’m essentially trying to call a direct response to my verbatim words within context baseless, but since it is verbatim after all, I’m not quite succeeding.

No, I suppose you wouldn’t… still, enjoy your evening. Do what you find fun in the game after all, and if that isn’t WvW, then the game’s definitely large enough to find other hobbies.

Your gripe with WvW is you don’t get a pixel prize for it. Therefore it isn’t fun. To quote you directly… “WvW is a PITA for map explorer, unrewarding… It also doesnt matter who wins and who does what, since you get absolutely nothing from it at the end.”

Great that you can throw baseless crap though, good job. Unfortunately my statement was within context and kinda makes your cute little comeback a bit of a joke point. I don’t WvW to get a pixel prize – I do it because I enjoy it, just as I would enjoy a game with my son. I don’t expect a prize for winning or losing in a game as you do, and not having one doesn’t magically make it pointless to me.

Great jab though. I mean, for a lesser man, they might actually take you seriously.

If I can deal 12k damage instantaneously THROUGH armor and protection skills, but your “unmitigated” damage deals 4k over 30 seconds (by that time, I’ll have killed you 5x over again and just pushed 1 button and all those conditions you tried so hard to stack on me are suddenly gone)… that is a balancing point how again, Teknomancer?

The fact they go through the defenses is meaningless if even after doing that, they’re 1/4 or less of the damage dealt by other skills AFTER mitigation.

Fix the nearly 100 (noted) bugs with the class’s mechanics, greater than any other profession (even several of them combined), and I believe Necromancer would be considerably stronger.

The problem is that ANet is weakening the skills, destroying the ability to make use of the class’s core mechanic more and more with each update (remove means of LF gain, remove power, nerf skills, lower the survivability, etc etc) and just will not take the time to tend to the bugs.

That said, we are simply getting weaker and weaker. Good Necros still manage to win, but if that effort was applied with another class, those same people would be much stronger simply by flawed design.

I predict yet another blow in the downward trend of Necromancers with the next profession update.

I haven’t been wrong once so far since BWE1 (where we were at our best – but still not quite to par). I welcome ANet to try and prove me wrong just once for a change.

Btw… 4k DoT (high end) vs 12k burst in 1 skill? Every class can fill every roll my kitten #8230; lol

@ptitminou.6489 tl;drqqrofl

I’m sure I should expect to “get something” out of playing checkers with my 6 year old son too other than the enjoyment of the act.

@Tutch: I run a Well build as well… though I believe you can get much greater utility out of those wells than your current setup. You sacrifice a number of traits that would increase your AoE potential exponentially.

http://www.gw2db.com/skills/calc/necromancer#5|0|500|1199|1198|3918|1205|0|0|0|0|20|2326|688|0|20|1569|1566|0|30|2397|2320|693|0|0|0|0|0|0|3|28016|28016|49965|49965|49965|49965|49965|25790|21080|21080|21080|21080|21080|

GW2db isn’t the best calculator, but I believe you’d find yourself substantially stronger if you adjusted your traits and built yourself for high Crit chance and damage. Well builds don’t do a lot of conditions, but lots of AoE power to pump out. Combined with a more focused trait spec specifically for marks/wells, should do the job nicely.

All the while, SF just shrugged and went about their business, finishing armor sets, map completion for legendaries, ironing out details for larger-scale alliances and strategies for next cycle to come out strong, etc.