So id like to start with that if anyone ever alt-f4 that means i won. It doesn’t matter if you think my build is op or just not fun if your not willing to even try to beat it you lost. There is a difference between a fight you don’t want to engage maybe catching up to your group or whatever but if you close the game you lose.
Moving on im not terribly familiar with power necro but here some ideas. Condie mesmer just leave dont want to fight just walk away or better yet practice seeing which is the real mesmer and kill them. Perma evade thief yes annoying but trying fighting them instead of rage quieting and you will learn their movements and when to hit them. Perma stealth is gone after the d/p nerf.
While im not either Pyro or Choas ( obviously) they will probably tell you any build that uses PU can be good with the signet. Your options are wither condie build with torch and then other stealth utilities or the same with more of a focus on phantasms.
While the signet can be good ether feast does offer better healing, however if you play well with a stealth heavy build then the signet can keep you topped off most the time.
Side note just so you know the signet get worse with more people in the fight because illusions don’t last long.
Mesmers were hands down the best spvp class. Pretty much always have been and always will be. So much crying was had about warrior healing singet. So instead of nerfing warrior healing singet they gave the best spvp class basically a better version of healing singet.
Healing signet is around 400 HP/sec, always, under all conditions, and heals I believe around 3k with a 20s cooldown.
Signet of the ether is maybe 330 HP/sec, only with 3 phantasms up, and heals 5.5k with a 35s cooldown.
In what universe is the mesmer heal better than the warrior one? The two have roughly the same active HP/s, and the warrior’s passive is substantially superior. In practice, the warrior signet probably heals double the HP/s over time.
Given the choice I would take the warrior signet immediately, without hesitation, and never use another mesmer heal again.
I have a hard time taking your class balance comments seriously after that.
As fun as it would be to run around on a mesmer with the warriors healing signet that would be so broken.
I cant remember the option name but i believes there is one that makes you attack a different target if your current target is out of range maybe that’s whats happening.
Also might be what Pyro is saying will cause it not to do that.
Prismatic Mesmers are both easy to play and incredibly strong, hopefully your 1v1 tourny will have them banned.
Now lets be fair you could argue any build is easy such as condie engi very strong but mostly grenade spam. I dont have anything against condie engi just for example but even with the good 1v1 build you’ll still notice a major difference between someone who has truly mastered the class/build or someone whose just picked it up.
While the best 1v1 class is of course arguable a lot of people would agree that a well played mesmer is amazingly strong in 1v1.
what if 2 mates enjoy playing the same class?
and you would reduce dps guard use even more
I dont meant to say that a class cant be good at multiple roles but lets say you go dps guard in theory you should want another class as bunker that would bring their own important part to the team.
I don’t want to it to be where every class only has 1 role on a team just that if a class decides to fill a role for this team comp another class should fill another spot to bring something to the team that’s better than just doubling up on whatever class.
I’ve teamed up with 3 thieves and we still won. I don’t think it’s the class that determines the victor of the match, it’s the skills of the players.
While yes the player is more important than just the class that doesn’t make it so its not bad game balance if its better to have a team with 2 warriors for example than a warrior and a thief.
What that means is that if you need a really good bunker and a really good roamer you should need different classes for that not have 1 class that fills multiple roles better than any other classes. Plus we have all seen classes that just aren’t used at all in spvp and that means something is wrong with the game balance.
then you’d have longer queue times, and people would feel pressured into playing their class a certain way (eg guardian bunker).
This is true but in any sort of competitive setting be it a game or real life people are going to be pressured to do what is most effective. Now obviously what a classes more effective role is debatable but the basic idea of competitiveness always forcing people to be the most use to their team is not.
Right now that petition is hardly viable since we lack players…
When rewards come out, if pvp population increases, then A-net will be in position to restrict games to 1 class per team without hurting queue times.
I would argue that the reason we lack players in spvp is because of issues like having teams running multiple FOTM classes and causing people to leave. This would also force the balance team to step up their game and keep all classes viable instead of slowly oh so slowly making changes.
people would still just queue up with whatever class they wanted then switch classes during pregame
Well yeah of course anet would have to do something to make that not an option.
I think the match making for both solo que and team que needs to be set so that there can not be two of the same classes on the same team. It creates bad matches and encourages people to run multiple of whatever class is FOTM.
I know anet wants to take baby steps to not upset the balance but the fact is their balancing has failed. Instead of just biting the bullet and just admitting there were mistakes made we end up where for months at a time we have classes being overpowered or under powered. Then more people leave the game because hey i might really love to play X class but its gonna be 4 months before any real changes happen same thing with classes that become to strong 4 months on slowing nerfing it before finally getting to the real fixes that were needed all along.
The above paragraph may seem off the original topic but bare with me. The point is that the balancing team for pvp is not doing a real great job. (sorry whoever you are its true)
Now yes limiting it to 1 class per team would limit team comp options, the fact is that if it is ever more effective to bring multiple of 1 class instead of 5 different classes then we have either a class that is to strong or classes that need to be better so that they can be a viable option for a team.
I need some advice or inspiration or something because im having trouble still wanting to play my thief. Its not that im terrible and lose all my fights in wvw i just feel like anything i want to do another class can do better.
My problem is that i feel like with all the nerfs to thieves and buffs to other classes that thief just isnt the best for anything other than stealth stomps. If i want a power build Warriors hit just as hard are tankier and can escape almost as easily. If i want a condie build its p/d which while fun i feel is underwhelming compared to mesmer or engi condie builds.
Another problem which is more a design flaw to me than just a thief problem is so many other class have aoe on almost every attack and i have to work hard to land my single target damage.
Besides the fact i really like my thief and have out alot of time into him i also dont like leveling having to get all the gear again plus who knows how many hours getting my wvw rank back. So please help inspire me to play thief more.
Help me understand why with dragonbrands borderland being 100% in Blackgates control we have 65+ dragonbrand in Sanctum of Rall borderlands? Not to mention an equally big Blackgate zerg here to.
Encase i was not clear im curious why the hell DB is here and not in their borderlands?
(edited by Eon.5428)
To my understanding the mist are a real place linking various parts of reality and alternate universes. In gw1 if i remember correctly the gods hosted a pvp tournament so the strongest could test themselves. So my understanding would be that basically the mist war is the gods or just different realities that have some how linked up to test each other and see who is stronger.
You answered your own problem its not as good i spvp but really good for skirmishing. Different build are good at different things and different classes are good at different things. A thief cant jump into a zerg and swing a hammer around and come out alive should we nerf guards and warriors cause they play differently? A thief also cant aoe almost an entire wall with marks or ele aoe spells should we nerf them cause they also do something different. I think you see the trend here.
Classes are good at their own thing for thieves that skirmishing. Also i dont play a d/p thief so dont think im just trying to defend my spec.
Unless i missed it in the first post what server are you on?
In that particular situation im going to go for the mesmer. They are all up leveled so no matter the build they are still going to be fairly squishy. Mesmer first because as others have said they can bring some damage and because its will just make the fight less chaotic for me if i get rid of it first.
Next i would take out the ele just because from my experience 90% of warriors in wvw run some sort of tank build so its not as big a threat as the ele.
Last is of course the warrior though with all the dashes they have access to there’s a good chance he will just bail while im stomping the ele and get away. I say the warrior will probably run because if im in a 3 man group and some guy has killed the 2 others and im all that’s left then that guy is probably pretty good and if i coudnt kill him with help my odds are even worse now.
That makes me wonder could you build a flame ram in the jp and fear people of ledges and such?
That plank video thanks for sharing that was funny im sad i missed the opportunity to do it.
Name: Ravirn Darkblade
Profession: Thief
Gear: Full exotics, few ascended accesories
No experience yet
Time: varies but on a fair amount
Just what the title says want to find some people to arah with explorable version. I haven’t done it yet but im a quick learner. I am on the making of this post but im trying to get the armor so ill be looking to run it for a while so even if im not online when you see this just try me a different time.
Boo Boo has truly taught me the way of the Mesmer and i could not recommend him more!
Well for roaming i would say a thief for sure not that engineers aren’t good. Both have good mobility but for roaming being able to get away from a bad situation nothing beats a thief.
Also this is more opinion but i feel the thief has one of the highest skills caps that rewards you for playing well.
You should check out that video the build is still the same thought today’s patch might change that but that video is one of the reason i went with a thief.
Also you will get used to it just the first few days getting the muscle memory to do what you need to quickly can hurt.
Thats all it really boils down to its a hack or exploit whatever you want to call it they do like to use it.
Why do thieves, one of the most mobile classes that gets to strike you while essentially following you while moving get a skill that will essentially force you to stop moving negating the only chance you have to stop their burst via dodging? Cause they needed more help to kill targets?
Sounds legit.
Id take a guess and that you wont have to worry to much about torment except for condi builds which means the thief wailing on you wont hurt it will be the conditions. Its not like backstab is going to apply 20 stacks of torment so you get the stab then have to stand there and not move.
No one else think this is a good idea?
So i had an idea what if we could exchange tickets from current event for tickets for the old events. Lets say i get a jade weapon ticket but want a fused weapon take it to the exchange and trade it for a fused weapon ticket.
Just an idea i had to allow people to trade tickets for weapons they want or events they weren’t able to be a part of.
So been practicing playing and it feels smoother with the binds and such after i tried it in spvp some so i could have all my skills and such. The mouse wheel for dodge rolling has helped a lot really great tip. Also wasn’t aware of how fraps works so thanks for that.
I guess now its just practice and picking a build so thanks for the help guys.
(edited by Eon.5428)
The mouse wheel for roll is a great idea should have though of that.
What ive been using for a while has benn 1-5 for weapons skills r(right strafe) e(forward) and w( left strafe) QASFG ( for my other skills) ` for weapons swap.
Im not oppressed to switching to different key binds if need be but is there anything wrong with that ones ive been using?
So i do need to get used to controlling character movement form the mouse and only switching to keyboard movement when i have to select something with the mouse?
Im am aware not to click skills.
So im new to thief and need some help learning. To begin with i know playing the class more will help but id still like some advice. In the videos of most good thief players ive seen they hardly ever use their mouse point which leads me to believe they are using the mouse to control their characters movement? If mouse moment is the correct thing to use how should i target people because tab targeting kinda sucks.
I guess i just really need help learning how to move and not feel so clunky. So mouse movement yes or no, and what sort of key bind setting work well.
You could try doing it Yishis way.
Lots of practice required. Helped me start out on my thief.
Holy kitten that guy is good even if those were under geared people kitten that reaction time.
I appreciate that and it would work but i was thinking more along the lines of something utilizing the caltrops bleeds to take down mobs because it does aoe and supply camps have multiple mobs. The above build might also work for that im not sure?
So I want to play a thief in wvw and roam, cap supply points and such can i get some advice for what build of skills and weapons to use to best accomplish this?
I consider swiftness of of the the best boons but that’s just me.
Ok so how bout this some classes have access to permabuffs on viable builds not all do.
Necromancer, uhh rangers dont have a whole lot of buffs
I dint mean literally 100% up time just that have a lot of buffs fairly often. Also your post list a fair amount of buffs that it fairly easy for engineers to keep up a lot of the time.
(edited by Eon.5428)
I figured it was elixirs im kinda hoping for a red post about if they are ment to have those buffs up all the time or if its being looked at.
Mostly referring to the engineer build were they always have almost most every buff. I understand there are abilities and such to get buff but im just curious if they are really ment to be able to get so much up time with them.
Lately ive been seeing alot of permabuff builds maybe its just me but this seems kinda wrong. The ones ive been seeing most are engineers and eles though i also see some guardians and warriors with various buffs almost almost on. Every single time i see then they always have buffs on or if they arent on they are getting ready to apply them for 30s or more.
So im just curious if its intended that some classes can almost always have buffs but other classes get almost no buffs?
Once again guys really this wasn’t meant to be a nerf thieves thread. Ok now all these points about how thieves are so squishy and get bursted down sure you do if you get caught but that’s part of the problem thieves have so much mobility that a good thief will hardly ever get caught because they have so many tools to just run away and come back again in 15s ready to go.
pabloedvardo thanks for jumping in here and imminently telling me how i dont know anything im aware what burst dps is and id like you to consider this isnt league of legends i cant stay near my tower so thieves cant jump me. Also you talk as though there is some simple way to not get caught by thieves please do share? Lets see they are moving around faster than everyone else either with the movement speed signet or just with the short bow, they have stealth or and steal teleports them to the person so there goes your range advantage.
Another thing id like everyone to consider is this join a spvp match there are usually considerably more theives than any other class why? The reason is simple it just doesnt just happen to be the funnest class(or some other crap reason why people think there are so many) there are so many because there is some about the class that cause tons of people to flock to it seems a lot like a op flavor of the month kinda thing to me. Kinda like there were alot more mesmers before they got a few nerfs.
Another thing to consider is this i think there is a problem if people are having to focus there build around a class that instagibs you if you dont spec simi tank which is wrong not everyone should have to build to counter thieves so clearly something is wrong.
Hackks you make a good point and you made me laugh thank you.
I really enjoy pvp but im not blind to its problems and yes it does need alot of work. For example these ridiculous bunkers build that have been going around for weeks now of course because this pvp is focused around holding points there will always be bunkers of some sort but still no one want to just stand on a point all game doing nothing even if they do win. Lots of bunkers are bored out their skulls because sure they can hold the points but its no fun. Bunkers will always be around but they shouldn’t be nearly as strong as they are and yet anet is taking their sweet time balancing anything. I understand they dont want to do anything drastic and mess up the game but come on doing nothing is just as bad if not worse making changes even if they turn out bad lets people know your trying.
Doolio your right i suppose there always will be easier classes and theres nothing really wrong with it. I suppose i just feel a a little bit like classes that have to work hard should get something out of it but at the same time if you do that once people do learn those classes they become to strong. It just seems like bad design to me that something like a bull rush and hundred blades should do so much damage for so little work.
As for balance thats a tricky deal if you dont have a team then tpvp isnt very good solo que tourneys almost always turns out horrible. At the same time if most people are play 8v8 then how can you fairly not balance somewhat around that since its what most people will experience.
Dont get me wrong i play both tpvp and spvp but people shoudnt have to find a team just to get a balanced game but at the same time the team matches need to be balanced also.
Hardly a instagib at all thus… If thiefs really instagibbed, all they needed to do is steal to you and you’re down. Since the meaning of instagib is literally one hit and you’re dead.
Fine if you want to get technical not an actual instagib but regardless thieve do way to much damage and they do it way to quickly if you disagree with that then quiet frankly your just lying to yourself about the thief class.
Anyways this isn’t supposed to be a nerf thief thread just some classes i feel have it to easy to dish out large amounts of damage.
Rashagal you make a good point that’s a full instagib however most thieves just do what i said assassins signet steal back stab and spam heartseeker. What you described does require some skill but just stealing back stab and heartseek does not require skill and still does a ton of damage even if it wont for sure insta kill.
My point is most thieves just use the basic 3 button combo and still do a kittenon of damage.