Guild Wars 2

To my knowledge, Glint’s Gaze Mask only ever had a VERY short period of availability. The Crimson Mask has returned several times now (did it even go away…?), but I have yet to see Glint’s again. I would GREATLY appreciate it if it would return to the Gem Store. I won’t get into digital limited availability, I just would like the opportunity to give you guys money for an item I desire in order to complete my Ghostly/Foefire Guardian’s look, and I don’t think I am alone in this. Please consider returning the item to the Gem Store.

IMO a better idea, at least as far as the login screen goes, is to just display the crafting rank next to the icon (0-500, whatever it may be for that profession). This doesn’t address un-learning it per character, but it better displays the proficiency at a glance. It should honestly have been that way from the start.

Sarrs.4831:

You’ve made a lot of suggestions but I don’t understand the impetus behind the suggestions. I really can’t make an analysis of the breadth of your argument with that in mind.

That said, I am not sure if you understand Resistance. You say it’s an adjustment when rolling it into protection in the way you suggest is a massive, fundamental shift in the effect. You realize you’ve completely butchered Warriors with this change, right?

There’s also no analysis made on the basis of boon protection/condition coverage and it doesn’t really make sense without that either. In reality, this changelist is just a gigantic buff to Necromancers because less boons means it takes less time for you to start corrupting Stability.

The impetus is very simple and stated directly in the OP: this game suffers from Boon/Condition bloat and spam. There are many effects that are either needless, redundant, or could be much better done. Myself and many others have made suggestions as to how the bloat and spam could be trimmed for the health of the game.

I also stated in the OP that there are obviously other adjustments that would also have to made in tandem with trimming the bloat (in reference to your Warrior and Necromancer “reality” statement) and my suggestions. However, I don’t work for Anet, and have my own projects, so I cannot put time into rectifying the entirety of their system (as much as I do like their game and want for it to be the very best it can be), especially when my posting a huge collection on how to “fix” it may not amount to anything in the end.

To answer though, I would say that looking at Boons as “less boons = better corruption for Necros” is entirely the wrong way to go about balancing. I certainly hope that is not the mindset Anet takes in its balance department.

I am also well aware of how Resistance works, how it impacts the game, and what it does and doesn’t do. I never said Warriors should not have an immunity option necessarily. I am simply saying that there are many things which need not be Boons or Conditions and unnecessarily harm the game, to the state in which Condition spam and Effect bloat are where they are now. Thus, the removal of Resistance as Boon, and the addition of Protection covering ALL types of damage.

Orpheal.8263:

My tweaked Version:

This is definitely more along the lines of what I’d personally go with if given full reign over the system (sans the Petrify part, due to the frequency of Critical Hits within the game currently…but that is something I would also have done differently as well).

Nice condensing. Can hope that one of these days Anet gets a chance to make their own adjustments to better the health of the game.

I’ll start off by saying that there are a plethora of conditions and boons within Guild Wars 2. Some of these conditions and boons are redundant, or the difference is so minor as to wonder why the additional condition/boon exists.

Below, I have shown what I feel would be the best way to adjust/balance the EXISTING condition and boon system (without creating an all-new one, though I do think that would be the BETTER solution). Currently, conditions serve primarily as another form of damage, and do not directly serve the role of hindering status effects that their name or original intent would imply. The primary goal when using conditions is to stack as much damage-over-time as possible, destroying a target. Below I have tried to consolidate reduntant conditions and boons in order to eliminate excess, while tweaking the functionality of some conditions slightly so as to remove the overhead focus on stacking as many DoTs on a target as possible.

I would highly recommend lowering the “spammability” and excessive “stackiness” of conditions, and while that is a topic related to this one, it is not this topic directly. While I am well aware that other existing systems would have to change somewhat to accommodate these changes, I am not going to delve deeply into what I think should be done (got my own stuff to work on too).

I make these suggestions as a fellow designer and writer. Whether implemented or not, I hope it serves as a source of inspiration and consideration for improving the game:

Damage-Over-Time Conditions (DoTs)

• Burning – deals high damage per second, extremely short duration, spreads effect to foes adjacent to target

• Poison – deals low damage per second, high duration, amount of damage dealt increases each second over the length of its duration, 33% Healing reduction

Punishment Conditions (Triggered Effects)

• Confusion – deals damage when affected target attacks or uses a skill

• Torment – deals damage when affected target moves

Status Effect Conditions

• Chilled – Slows actions, skills, and skill cooldown recovery

• Crippled – Slows movement speed and Endurance regeneration

• Weakness – No longer slows Endurance regeneration

Conditions with No Change Made

• Blind

• Fear

• Immobilize

• Taunt

• Vulnerability

Conditions Removed Entirely

• Bleed – Not interesting or engaging to use, is merely a small DoT. Superceded by Burn and Poison

• Slow – Adjusted and folded into Chill. Currently adds unnecessary redundance with Chill and Cripple

Grand Total Conditions

• 14 Conditions Original Tally
• 2 Conditions Removed
• 7 Conditions Tweaked
• 12 Conditions Final Tally

Boons Reworked/Changed

• Might – increases outgoing damage and adds 1% Critical Chance per stack

• Protection – reduces all incoming damage by 33% (includes Condition damage)

• Regeneration – regains health per second, increases Endurance regeneration by 33%

Boons with No Change Made

• Aegis

• Quickness

• Stability

• Swiftness

Boons Removed Entirely

• Fury – Adjusted and folded into Might, percentage effect divided to incorporate stacking intensity as Might does

• Resistance – Adjusted and folded into Protection

• Retaliation – I highly recommend redoing Retaliation as an inherent feature of specific skills and traits instead of keeping it as a Boon (similar to Alacrity). In addition, whether kept as a Boon or reworked into skills/traits, it should reflect a portion of ALL damage for its duration (Condition damage too, not just direct damage).

• Vigor – Doesn’t need an entirely separate boon to exist. Folded into Regeneration, Endurance regeneration duration reduced to mirror Poison healing reduction duration

Grand Total Boons

• 11 Boons Original Tally
• 4 Boons Stripped
• 3 Boons Tweaked
• 7 Boons Final Tally

bump./15and stuff

bumpity bump bump

TL;DR:

• Server – NA Sorrow’s Furnace
• What We Do – Fractals, Dungeons, Map Metas, Raids, Casual, and some sPvP
• Who We Want – People looking to enjoy (or learn) the challenges of the game together and build friendships with others in small/mid-size guild.
• Who We Are – Friendly, easygoing, helpful, mix of hardcore and casual players who share an interest in the content and desire to grow together

Hey all!

Intro:
My name is Kaladir Lokharte, one of the core founders of Valour of the Forsaken [VoTF], a guild on the NA Sorrow’s Furnace Server. Our founding can be traced back all the way to the launch of Guild Wars 1, where myself and several others friends first toiled to claim a Guild Hall and make our mark in the Mists. Our members are tight-knit and have many have known each other for years now (some as much as 10, sticking together through multiple games). That said, we’re not a closed-off or impenetrable guild; the attitude and atmosphere is one of warmth and laid back fun, open and welcome to any and all.

Numbers:
Prior to HoT the guild had begun at 20 members and grew to over 200. Real life has cut back on our numbers, but we were never a guild looking to simply be large. Guilds are about bonds and connections with the people in them. We never lost sight of that, and now that many of our members are returning to the game we are looking to grow our currently active roster to numbers large enough to consistently do Raids with.

Focus:
Our core focus has always been to seek greater challenges. Guild Wars 2 does not have much to offer in that particular department, but that does not stop us all from simply enjoying the game. Whether it is casually roaming the map and doing events, leading and teaching the newly released Raids, guiding others through and conquering Fractals, or laughing it off in the trenches of sPvP, you can find [VoTF] members both casual and hardcore alike having fun together everywhere.

What We Want:
We’re looking to add more members who have a good attitude and are interested in doing/learning Fractals, Raids, Map Metas. You don’t have to be a hardcore player. Some of our members are (have legendaries, full ascended, do high level fractals) and some of our members are not (full exotic, have only tried low level fractals, never done a raid before in their life, prefer open world content). The only requirement is the interest in the content and willingness to learn and to work together in a friendly and fun environment!

We have some members who also enjoy sPvP and WvW now and again (and are quite good at it actually), but our core focus is the challenging content of PvE.

We want people interested in sharing in the experience of learning and beating the game’s content together. To grow in skill together until we can say “We did it guys!” at the final boss of the Raid. At the 100th Scale Fractal. At Dragon’s Stand, Triple Trouble, Verdant Brink, Auric Basic, and everywhere else we can find.

Closing:
In [VoTF], we all know that we are real people behind those game screens. People who have lives, families, bills, goals, etc. We don’t do drama and don’t want to add to anyone’s stress. We’re here to unwind, to have fun, and to feel the thrill of challenging ourselves in Guild Wars 2 together with friends. To have goofy conversations in Guild Chat, to help each other figure out a jumping puzzle, to run Guild Missions, to teach challenging content and to conquer it together, to cheer when a mate finishes a goal (such as legendary). We roam the world building Collections. We spend time in Fractals and Dungeons. We test our might in the Raid. And we chill out occasionally in sPvP.

More than anything, we’re about the support and the fun that make Guilds what they really are: a place to call home within the game world, and to make friends both in and out of it.

If interested, send me a whisper or mail in game, or leave a message here and I’ll get back to you. Thanks for reading! See you in the game guys.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/guardian/Patch-note-17-11/first#post5768384

Karl McLain.5604:

The true shot note was indeed intended to indicate Deflecting Shot. True Shot is definitely not slated for any unblockable state at this time. :P

Karl McLain.5604:

The true shot note was indeed intended to indicate Deflecting Shot. True Shot is definitely not slated for any unblockable state at this time. :P

Source: https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/guardian/Patch-note-17-11/first#post5768384

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/guardian/Patch-note-17-11/first#post5768384

Quote from Karl:

Karl McLain.5604:

The true shot note was indeed intended to indicate Deflecting Shot. True Shot is definitely not slated for any unblockable state at this time. :P

Don’t freak guys. Even as a DH my immediate reaction was “WTF ARE THEY DOING, NO THAT’S kittenED”. Immediately checked Guard forums, thank God they actually meant DEFLECTING SHOT

Soryuju.8164:

Exemplar.1479:

Test of Faith counter:
initial damage unblockable, follow-up damage only triggers if you’re walking (or knocked/pulled) into the blade ring. Dodge through the blade ring and you’ll take NO damage. Can also be Blocked, Teleport/Shadowstep, Block/Invulnerability.

Crossing the blades will also cause you to take unblockable damage, and teleporting across the ring will cause to you take damage as if you walked across it normally. Because of these mechanics, blocks and teleports really aren’t counters to this trap.

I personally feel like these mechanics need to be revisited, because they create somewhat limited counterplay for what can be an extremely damaging trap. These mechanics can also be used against the Guardian/DH profession, so it’s not strictly a nerf to revise Test of Faith. The current version can hinder our use of teleports like Flashing Blade and Judge’s Intervention, and also allow DH’s to interrupt our channeled blocks like Shelter and Shield of Courage with an instant-cast Daze (while putting them on full cooldown). It would reduce the complaints from other professions while remaining a very potent ability, and we wouldn’t have to worry about being badly punished for using some of our most important skills/utilities.

I’m almost 100% certain Shadowsteps and Teleports (and I know for a FACT Dodges) do NOT take damage from Test of Faith blades if you use them to get in/out. I could be wrong, but my PvP experience hasn’t resulted in any mishaps with them.

Jalis might give you the on-demand Stability you need.

To counter any Guardian trap, it’s as simple as:

• Dodge
• Stability
• Teleport/Shadowstep

Hunter’s Ward is the Longbow #5 skill. It has a 2.75 second channel time. That is a long kitten time. If you see a Dragon Hunter channeling this skill, or if you’re getting hit by the arrows, very simply move out of the area of effect. The Ward function of that skill (the ring of chains trapping you) only takes effect if you’re in it at the end of the channel. If you think you won’t make it out of the area of effect before the Ward part hits, then give yourself Stability. You’ll be able to walk literally right through the Ward that way. If you’re trapped, you can Teleport/Shadowstep out.

Dragon’s Maw is an Elite trap skill with a 75 second cooldown, 60 seconds traited. This trap creates blue particle effects (like a swirl of 3 blue “light” tendrils) when cast. When triggered, you’ll see a giant blue dragon’s jaw appear. Once the jaws snap shut you are trapped for the duration (6 seconds). To counter this trap, you can dodge before the jaws snap shut (IE dodge through the trap, or walk into it and wait about a half a second then dodge out). There a slight delay before the jaws themselves trap you, giving you plenty of time to react and negate a full Elite skill. If you are trapped, you Teleport/Shadowstep out, or if you have Stability you can literally just walk right through the trap and ignore its effects.

That is the basic rule of thumb for all Guardian traps. Dodge, Stability, Teleport/Shadowstop.

And just because I know someone is going to ask:

Procession of Blades, Lights Judgement, Fragments of Faith counter:
Dodge, Teleport/Shadowstep, Block/Invulnerability.

Test of Faith counter:
initial damage unblockable, follow-up damage only triggers if you’re walking (or knocked/pulled) into the blade ring. Dodge through the blade ring and you’ll take NO damage. Can also be Blocked, Teleport/Shadowstep, Block/Invulnerability. I don’t recommend wasting cooldowns on Test of Faith, as if you simply remain calm and don’t freak out (like everyone in PvP does once it pops) you can simply dodge out and continue about your business.

Spear of Justice:
the Dragon Hunter F1. This skill has a 20 second cooldown (17 traited) and has a follow-up Pull that has a SEPARATE 40 second cooldown (34 traited). The Hook throw is unblockable, but can have some finnicky targeting issues. Use awkward terrain to your advantage, but don’t place yourself where you can be pulled for fall damage. Once hit, you are tethered to the Dragon Hunter and it will pulse burning periodically. This is the distinct “chain” you see between you and the Dragon Hunter. While tethered, if the Hook Pull is off of cooldown, the Dragon Hunter can activate it to pull you. Distance pulled varies based on terrain, skills being used at the time by the opponent, and other factors. Sometimes it will pull 900 range, sometimes it will only “tug” the foe maybe 150 range and cause an interrupt. As I said, the result varies. Treat it as if it will pull you 1200. If you are tethered, you need to apply Stability to yourself to deny the pull or prepare a plan of action to escape once pulled.

+1 because I literally started laughing hysterically out loud at the Zojja and Logan dialogue. Couldn’t contain myself, immediately linked to all friends.

As far as the idea…it’s very ridiculous, and in some ways, no more ridiculous and inane than some of the story elements Anet has introduced to their own game. I certainly wouldn’t be into at all (which doesn’t speak for others), and myself coming from a fantasy fiction writing background, it’s almost hilariously appalling to read xD

Can’t tell if you’re serious or joking though, but either way, thank you for the laugh my friend!

You can already see all of them at once in the same window without having to swap out any of your three spec lines. Look at your UI and click the tabs…you’ll find it eventually.

The HP’s are fine. I have no clue what you guys are talking about.

If you’re asking for help during the Tarir Meta then OF COURSE you’re going to have a hard time getting it…people are trying to learn and do the new meta event!

The HP’s are not overly difficult, overly ridiculous, or anything of the sort.

I have literally finished 6 of the new specs in the past 4 days (almost one a day) by simply getting all the commune Hero Points in Verdant Brink, one of the Communes right inside the entrance of Tangled Depths, and calling for help on the other challenging Hero Points. 6 out of 8 of my characters have all of their elite spec fully unlocked, and 5 of those characters didn’t even have Brisban Wildlands so I had to walk over to the Silverwastes first (which isn’t a big deal). Most of these points I acquired by just running solo for all the ones I know can be solo’d, and then asking in map chat (or say if a person was standing nearby) and then starting the group HP.

They don’t need dumbed down, they don’t need difficulty lowered. People DO come and help with them…or else I’d have not finished all those specs that quickly.

If you seriously can’t get people in your map to help (which honestly boggles my mind) then ask a guildie or a friend?

I wouldn’t mind an increased or altered reward as incentive for helping at a Hero Point after having already completed it. That seems fairly reasonable, as long as it isn’t too much or too little.

PVP =

Marauder Ammy
Pack Runes

GS + Bow (Hammer is worthless, Sword is crap, dont need Torch cus you’re a DH)

Air + Fire Sigils on both for burst

Utilities are Test of Faith, Judges Intervention, and Contemplation of Purity. Elite is your choice (I run Maw)

Traits are:

Valor = All the middle traits
Virtues = Top, Mid, Bottom
DH = Top, Top, Mid

This gives you a good range of sustain, condition clear, engagement potential, and CC to keep targets on the defensive.

Be wary, your traps can be Stability’d and dodged through, and smart players (you won’t find many in SoloQ) will make you work for kills.

There’s my build. Learning how to play it is on you though ;P

Scambug.3502:

“Just use stability to counter traps” yeah sure but do you realize how overpowered a skill is if its only counter is stability?
People need to save their stability for stomping/ressing, not to avoid OP instant death traps on 30sec CDs.
DH traps basically remove our ability to stomp/rezz, not only is that blatantly overpowered it’s also game breaking.

Traps should either do huge damage OR strong CC…not both.

You do realize there are NUMEROUS skills in this game where the only counter is dodge or Stability?

People need to use Stability for more than just TWO scenarios (stomps/rez). If they use Stability when it could prevent a Stun or a critical CC, they might find they have less issues dealing with easily avoidable traps. Stability is LITERALLY designed to COUNTER CC. Use it.

An ELITE trap SHOULD deal damage and provide CC. NONE of the other DH traps provide hard CC, only soft (Cripple, Blind). There’s no complaint to be had here. There’s an issue with people refusing to adjust their playstyle.

Guardian has next to no hard CC in their kit. Now that they finally have a hard CC skill, people are complaining out the wazoo, when there are multiple ways to avoid and counter a STATIONARY trap. Every class has universal access to dodge, access to Stability and Invuln/Teleport, and is fully capable of dealing with the very limited CC the Guardian (finally) gains by going DH.

For once, people can’t just walk away from a Guard, with the Guardian too slow to chase and too incapable of punishing them for leaving/keeping their foe engaged…except that you still literally simply walk away if you use Stability or Dodge. Traps aren’t “OP”. People are just dumb.

You can Stability right out of the Elite trap. You dont need to port or be invuln.

EDIT: It’s misinformation like this that is gonna get a useful and engaging spec nerfed simply because people absolutely refuse to learn how to counter or play with it. DH is plenty easily destroyed, lacks sustain and is reliant upon enemies standing inside their traps (or dumping the trap on them point blank).

None of the mechanics or things here are new. People…it hasn’t even been two weeks. Let’s not axe things that don’t need to be axed…we know Anet’s patch balancing track record for nuking things out of existence and never returning to bring it back to usability.

Of course it will be nerfed. Because people similar to you complain instead of using the game’s mechanics, literally available to every class, to counter these very simple pubstomp techniques. It hasn’t even been two weeks and already everyone is crying for nerfs to things that are easily countered and avoidable by simply not STANDING in traps, dodging, using Stability…

As above. The Initialy HOOK has a 17.5 CD when TRAITED. The PULL however is 45 CD. No matter what, a DH cannot simply Hook AND Pull you every engagement. If you DO get Hooked, the Hook duration is rather short (it is much shorter than the GS #5 duration). Stability will deny the Pull.

Guardian finally has a way to engage targets and punish them for simply walking away from him so easily (as is always done against core game Guard). Let’s not QQ it right out of existence before two full weeks even pass.

EDIT: And NO…Guardian/DH CANNOT simply “one-shot” a high toughness target. Can they burst them fairly low if they land every burst skill and use all their damage utilities? Yes. Every class can if they use EVERYTHING at their disposal on one target, and not a single attack is evaded/negated.

You literally can use ANY Stability-granting skill and walk right out of it. The senseless calling for nerfs (seriously…an ELITE that only holds for ONE SECOND is your desire???) needs to stop.

Stability. You can walk RIGHT THROUGH IT.

Zaoda.1653:

I HATE the ‘chill on fear’ idea SO much. Especially in WvW – this is going to be so stupid.

If I want to fear people off a ledge, I want them to be feared off that ledge as fast as possible. Not as slow as possible. If Anet make it so that all fear skills use chill, I’m just not going to use my necro anymore (apart from perhaps the pvp dailies, but that’s about it).

I seriously hope this is ONLY for the specialisation – otherwise the fear skill just got officially nerfed in my eyes.

Quite clearly the Chill on Fear is a feature specific to the Reaper Specialization. Direct quote from the blog itself:

“Besides Shroud Knight, here are the other two reaper minor traits:

Shivers of Dread—When you inflict fear on an opponent, you also inflict chill."

Minor Trait right there. I’m amazed by how many people either don’t read or understand how any of the specializations work.

Anyways, there’s no need to fear, so chill out mate ;P

Posting for visibility. Will comment more later.

TL;DR = YES, we NEED a better GUI, and the ideas presented here are going in the right direction. ANet…make it happen.

The solution I discovered works:

Open your options, go to your key bindings, and bind a key for “Sheathe Weapon” (or “Store Weapon”, whichever it may be called). Anytime you try to sheathe your weapon, it will cancel whatever skill you are activating.

For example, I can begin to activate Guardian Hammer #4 “Banish” (the knockback, which has a short wind-up time), then at any point during the wind-up I can press my “Sheathe Weapon” key (which is E for me) to cancel the skill before it completes, sending it into reduced cooldown (and likely baiting a wasted dodge or block from the enemy).

But yeah: bind a key for “Sheathe Weapon” and that will give you a usable Skill Cancel key other than having to press ESC (which is hugely inconvenient).

Our map had the same thing…only we succeeded with a clutch kill after the failed Megalaser. It felt like the most amazing Teq ever because of the clutch nature, with the entire map coming together to fight tooth and nail for that last bit of health in the waning 30 seconds before utter failure. Getting crushed by the massive Teq tidal wave and then coming back for the win…priceless.

However, I completely and totally agree with how crappy and unacceptable the lag and delay was. For as much as I love the camera options, this patch has a huge number of bugs:

Broken Guild Chat (fixed by opening friends list, going invis, and going back online)
Green Chat Text
Texture-less Triple Trouble Wurms
Uber lag/skill delay

Something clearly went wrong in implementation. I’m hoping they’ll get it under control soon. They need to if they want people to keep faith for updates and Heart of Thorns…

(Top success quote from that Teq run in my map though: “Where’s my precursor, because that clutch kill was kitten-ing LEGENDARY!”)

nicknamenick.2437:

Sorel.4870:

Man, this 0.03% will get you killed, mind my words. Better take some lvl 10 food to fix this.

Dude, did you even READ my topic?

Like i say >> ITS the same amount, but it just looks horrible.

Dunno why they did, dont like it.

Whooooooooooooooooosh! Sarcasm/joke went completely over your head OP.

Thanks for the reply

It could be the build editor, that’s true.

As I said in the first post, I made sure to account for the WvW bonuses and Bloodlust stacks, so those specifically are not what is causing the number disparity (unless I am extremely inept or completely unaware of something).

If the culprit was the global WvW Bloodlust buff, then I would see consistent number differences across each stat (every stat being lower/higher by 30 points for Minor WvW Bloodlust for example). However, the number differences are not consistent, so nailing down what the issue might be is elusive. I’ve even gone as far as to review the entire previous year’s patch history just to make sure I haven’t missed something that might be responsible for the differing numbers, hehe.

I appreciate you offering up some thoughts to help me solve the issue though! I’m still sitting here scratching my head, and I may just have to chalk it up a builder error…though if that’s the case, it is a pretty odd one.

Hey all,

I’ve been experimenting with various gear sets and stumbled across a particular one that I wanted to try via forum post, but I’m having some problems. Specifically, when I slot everything the same in the builder (gear, food, traits, etc), my numbers don’t match up with the original build.

I’ve made sure to mentally account for WvW Minor Bloodlust and max stacks of Applied Fortitude/Strength, max stacks of Bloodlust Sigil (as those are mentioned in the original build). But even with those, the numbers are still off (2179 Power versus 2223, and different Healing Power and Condition Damage for example, again, even accounting for the buffs the original build claims to have active).

Here is my recreation of the build in the builder. Same gear, same traits, same sigils, same runes, etc. But like I said, my numbers aren’t quite the same. Something is off. Compare to the original build.

Recreated Build: http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fVAQJASWlsApVo1CxfH8DRRCBljNY/hnnirDwFOAA-TlCBABCu/gYKPcUJIpqrglSMAeQAqqSRi6aY4IEsxlUgMA6LA-w

And below is the original build. This post lists the gear selection, see the picture attached within the post for the raw numbers for comparison to my recreated build link.

Original Build by Brutaly: https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/guardian/I-Have-Never-Been-As-Frustrated-As-Now/first#post3963981

EDIT: Here’s the numbers difference added into this post to point out the math disparity I am asking for help with

To try and make things more clear for anyone else who happens to take a look, here are the stats of the two builds side-by-side:

This is with Plate of Truffle Steak, Master Maintenance Oil, WvW Minor Bloodlust, Max WvW Applied Fortitude Stacks, Max WvW Applied Strength Stacks, and Max Bloodlust Sigil Stacks for both builds.

Please note that the WvW buffs do not show up in the builder link, but are applied here after the fact (I’ve added them in manually).

Original Picture vs When I Put It Into the Build Editor

• 2223 Power |vs| 2209 Power (14 Point Difference)
• 1709 Toughness |vs| 1700 Toughness (9 Point Difference)
• 1738 Vitality |vs| 1729 Vitality (9 Point Difference)
• 1852 Precision |vs| 1820 Precision (32 Point Difference)
• 642 Ferocity |vs| 673 Ferocity (31 Point Difference)
• 422 Cond Damage |vs| 403 Cond Damage (19 Point Difference)
• 1065 Healing Power |vs| 1011 Healing Power (54 Point Difference)

I was hoping the Guard community could help me out. Is there something I’m overlooking? A mistake I made in the builder maybe?

Any help in explaining the numbers difference would be greatly appreciated!

Warlord.9074:

why 20 in defense?

If you read my post I actually explained that I take 20 in Defense as a personal preference, and that it is NOT required for the Phalanx Strength basic setup. I like to have Adrenal Health and Cleansing Ire. Feel free to toss points elsewhere. By no means am I dictating a build, the post was merely to showcase my take on Phalanx Strength.

Agony.3542:

I like the combo between phalanx strength and arms X.
Sadly I don’t see it beeing useful in speedrunning groups, since there are better ways to stack up might and the current might mechanics can actually hurt the group, due to the low duration - 8 seconds at best. This sucks and should be changed already.

Actually, selling the trait as "8 seconds at best" sells it a bit short..

With just the build I posted above it is 10.5 seconds of Might per application. 6 second base enhanced duration of +75% (30% from Tactics trait line, and +45% from Might Runes) of 6, which is 4.5, thus 6+4.5 = 10.5 seconds. If you really wanted to, one could consume Boon Duration food to further enhance that.

So just to be clear, even with a basic setup of taking the Phalanx Strength trait itself and Might runes you’ve got 10.5 seconds of Might being granted to allies. That is a rather good duration (which beats out the somewhat roughly comparable Empowering Might trait of the Guardian, which provides 1 stack of Might to allies for 5 seconds on a Critical Hit), doesn’t require any fields or coordination to apply, and can be maintained at 25 stacks for the entire group during battle by just one person.

(For comparison, blast finishing in a fire field provides 3 stacks of Might at a base duration of 20 seconds.)

Is it going to be the new meta in speedrun groups? Probably not. If you can blast finish then obviously you should, as in a coordinated group you’re going to be able to stack up 25 stacks at a longer base duration.

But I do think that the power of this trait should not be underestimated considering the strengths of the trait that have been outlined already. This is one of the few good traits to come out of this patch (for any class) and should not be overlooked.

Warlord.9074:

Agronach.4903:

Exemplar.1479:

Yes, this is now the definitive Might sharing build. You can practically replace the need for fire fields by running a single warrior with this build.

My personal setup as soon as I unlocked the trait was thus:
Full Berserker Gear
Forceful Greatsword (for Might on crit with Greatsword)
Sigil of Strength (for Might on crit with Greatsword)
Phalanx Strength (anytime you gain Might allies do as well)
Full Runes of Strength (+45% Might Duration, 25% chance to gain Might when hit, and +7% damage while effected by Might)

This gives me a total of +75% Might Duration (counting the +30% from Traits), 2 stacks of Might for myself and allies per critical hit, along with the awesomeness of giving a quick 11 stacks from For Great Justice! and Signet of Rage.

You can literally maintain a perma 25 stacks of Might for the entire group off of ONE WARRIOR in a single Hundred Blades use + a few auto’s.

Unfortunately, I feel that my Guardian has been completely obsoleted in this patch…but I am REALLY enjoying the massively stupid damage boost for the entire party that is this simple, easy-to-maintain 25 stacks.

I ran this build last night for a bit and it works pretty much like you’d expect it to. EA was good, a practically constant 25 stacks of might for the whole party was great (didn’t feel like I was wasting stacks either at the rate it was ticking on/off), and banners.

I noticed my personal damage level was lower, of course, but it would be cool for some of the more number-crunching folks to see if it’s worth it (pug vs. organized fire field might stacking routines).

The argument could be made that its more beneficial to run it in pugs groups since pug groups can be really low DPS sometimes. The question is is the damage nerf going to be noticeable in a party that kills slow without you giving them 25 stacks of might. I think the anwser is clear. Now the solution to this is to come up with a build that gives more DPS while using this trait.

Well, to add just a bit more info and clarification, I was outputting roughly the same damage as I had been pre-patch (pre-patch I had 30 in Crit Damage trait tree as well, but post-patch my traits are 30 in Tactics for Phalanx). Between all the power bonuses I was tossing out the group was NOT lacking for damage, and neither was I

Additional Power Source Breakdown:

• 25 stacks of Might (gives +875 power and condition damage)
• Empower Allies trait (+150 power to you and allies in aura)
• Banner of Strength (+170 power and condition damage)
• Rune of Strength (+7% damage while you are effected by Might)
  = grand total of +1195 power and condition damage to the entire group, and you get +7% on top of that.

I haven’t done raw mathematical calculations, but from my experience running this all day in dungeons the other day, this is definitely a new go-to build option for warriors, is absolutely amazing in PUGS (since those are usually not coordinated for Might stacking via fire fields), and just feels flat out awesome to be the one responsible for giving your entire party 25 perma-Might stacks solo

NOTE: I have edited my original post to include pertinent pieces of this info, as well as formatted it a bit better. Also reformatted this post. Hope it all helps.

redslion.9675:

Does the might granted benefit from your own might duration bonus?

Same as all other boons/conditions: if the original source is you then it benefits from any boosted duration effects you have.

Yes, this is now the definitive Might sharing build. You can practically replace the need for fire fields by running a single warrior with this build.

My personal setup as soon as I unlocked the trait day 1 was thus

• Full Berserker Gear
• 0/20/20/30/0 for Traits
• Forceful Greatsword (for Might on crit with Greatsword)
• Sigil of Strength (for Might on crit with Greatsword)
• Phalanx Strength (anytime you gain Might allies do as well)
• Empower Allies (+150 Power to yourself and allies in aura radius)
• Full Runes of Strength (+45% Might Duration, 25% chance to gain Might when hit, and +7% damage while effected by Might)

This gives me a total of +75% Might Duration (counting the +30% from Traits), 2 stacks of Might for myself and allies per critical hit, along with the awesomeness of giving a quick 11 stacks from For Great Justice! and Signet of Rage.

You can literally maintain a perma 25 stacks of Might for the entire group off of ONE WARRIOR in a single Hundred Blades use + a few auto’s.

Unfortunately, I feel that my Guardian has been completely obsoleted in this patch…but I am REALLY enjoying the massively stupid damage boost for the entire party that is this simple, easy-to-maintain 25 stacks.

Do note that the 20 points in Defense are NOT required, that’s just my personal preference for Dogged March/Adrenal Health/Cleansing Ire.

EDIT:
Well, to add just a bit more info and clarification, I was outputting roughly the same damage as I had been pre-patch (pre-patch I had 30 in Crit Damage trait tree as well, but post-patch my traits are 30 in Tactics for Phalanx). Between all the power bonuses I was tossing out the group was NOT lacking for damage, and neither was I

Additional Power Source Breakdown:

• 25 stacks of Might (gives +875 power and condition damage)
• Empower Allies trait (+150 power to you and allies in aura)
• Banner of Strength (+170 power and condition damage)
• Rune of Strength (+7% damage while you are effected by Might)
  = grand total of +1195 power and condition damage to the entire group, and you get +7% on top of that.

Enjoy mates.

It would be nice and helpful if rather than only showing their stats, people would actually list out what gear/runes they have in each slot, their trait setup (most people DO list the trait setup already), and whether or not they are buffed with food. There are way too many vague stat setups in here and too many questions about how people got them, with too few ACTUALLY being answered…which sucks, since there is a gold mine of helpful build and itemization information to be had here if people were to actually share/post that info when they post their stats.

INTRO

So, while explaining the differences between Guild Wars 1 and Guild Wars 2 to my fiancee, it suddenly hit me…

To my knowledge (and in my own personal experience), when there is a complaint about the Guild Wars 2 skill system it typically comes down to it being too bland. You know that the Guardian standing across from you wielding a Sword & Focus has the exact same weapon skills as the Guardian in your own party wielding a Sword & Focus. So the only thing differentiating those two (as far as the SKILL BAR itself goes) are their chosen Utilities and Elite.

Compare this with Guild Wars 1 where you could see a Warrior standing across from you wielding a Sword & Shield and using completely different sword-based skills from the Sword & Shield Warrior in your own party. The Warrior across from you may have specialized in the Swordsmanship Attribute and be wielding Swordsmanship skills focused on causing Bleed/Cripple/Deep Wound, whereas your own party’s Warrior may have focused on the Strength or Tactics line, focusing either on delivering hard hits via Strength or utilizing Blocks and Stances/Ripostes/Parries via Tactics.

There is a stark contrast in what can be done with weapons in Guild Wars 1 compared to Guild Wars 2, mostly due to the difference in skill systems between the games.

But what if we could alleviate some of the difference while expanding gameplay AND all while not destroying the current skill system at the same time?

IDEA/SUGGESTION

What if an aspect of the old Dual Profession system was brought back…so that you could choose a secondary Profession and wield the Weapon Skills (ONLY the Weapon Skills, not Utilities or Elites) of your chosen secondary class?

For example, let us say that I am a Guardian who has chosen Warrior as my secondary. Both the Guardian and the Warrior have many over-lapping weapons available to them. Let’s pretend that I wish to wield a Sword & Shield, weapons that are common to both Professions. Now, under this theoretical system, whenever I wield a weapon for which both my classes have skills, I would be able to choose which Profession’s skills I have on my bar for those weapons.

So, as a Guardian, I would have the option to either be using the:

(A.) Guardian’s 1-handed Sword Skills + Guardian Shield Skills
(B.) Guardian’s 1-handed Sword Skills + Warrior Shield Skills
(C.) Warrior’s 1-handed Sword Skills + Guardian Shield Skills
(D.) Warrior’s 1-handed Sword Skills + Warrior Shield Skills

This new system could potentially be intentionally limited to help preserve Profession weapon identities as well, simply by only allowing you to swap one of your equipped weapon’s skill sets to that of your secondary class (IE You can have either A, B, or C from the list above, but you can NEVER have D. Or in other words, one of your equipped weapons must ALWAYS be using the skill set of your main Profession, so that you can’t just be using an entire other class’s weapon set with your own Utilities + Elite slapped on).

CLOSING

Obviously this system would not be balanced in the current game. I’m not suggested something like this should just be slapped on. But imagine if the game was made this way from the start or if the weapon skills system was redesigned to implement such an idea?

In my opinion, this would bring back some much needed variety and build diversity to Guild Wars 2, particularly to the PvP side of the game (not to mention the slew of options it would open up in WvW small-scale combat encounters as well as PvE…though PvE is not difficult regardless, so the tactical variety offered by this system wouldn’t change much there unless PvE becomes more challenging).

This would bring back the Dual Profession mechanic of the first game in the form of Cross-Class Weapon Skills, it would bring variety to the gameplay (imagine seeing an Axe/Axe Warrior…but using cross class skills on his main hand…perhaps throwing the axes by using the Ranger main hand Axe skills while keeping his native Warrior off-hand axe skills!), and it would potentially spice up the game and build diversity in a great way that hearkens back to Guild Wars 1 without entirely destroying the new and separate system that Guild Wars 2 has.

I haven’t really sat and fleshed the entire post out as well as I like, and it may be a bit of a read, but thoughts anyone?

INTRO

So, while explaining the differences between Guild Wars 1 and Guild Wars 2 to my fiancee, it suddenly hit me…

To my knowledge (and in my own personal experience), when there is a complaint about the Guild Wars 2 skill system it typically comes down to it being too bland. You know that the Guardian standing across from you wielding a Sword & Focus has the exact same weapon skills as the Guardian in your own party wielding a Sword & Focus. So the only thing differentiating those two (as far as the SKILL BAR itself goes) are their chosen Utilities and Elite.

Compare this with Guild Wars 1 where you could see a Warrior standing across from you wielding a Sword & Shield and using completely different sword-based skills from the Sword & Shield Warrior in your own party. The Warrior across from you may have specialized in the Swordsmanship Attribute and be wielding Swordsmanship skills focused on causing Bleed/Cripple/Deep Wound, whereas your own party’s Warrior may have focused on the Strength or Tactics line, focusing either on delivering hard hits via Strength or utilizing Blocks and Stances/Ripostes/Parries via Tactics.

There is a stark contrast in what can be done with weapons in Guild Wars 1 compared to Guild Wars 2, mostly due to the difference in skill systems between the games.

But what if we could alleviate some of the difference while expanding gameplay AND all while not destroying the current skill system at the same time?

IDEA/SUGGESTION

What if an aspect of the old Dual Profession system was brought back…so that you could choose a secondary Profession and wield the Weapon Skills (ONLY the Weapon Skills, not Utilities or Elites) of your chosen secondary class?

For example, let us say that I am a Guardian who has chosen Warrior as my secondary. Both the Guardian and the Warrior have many over-lapping weapons available to them. Let’s pretend that I wish to wield a Sword & Shield, weapons that are common to both Professions. Now, under this theoretical system, whenever I wield a weapon for which both my classes have skills, I would be able to choose which Profession’s skills I have on my bar for those weapons.

So, as a Guardian, I would have the option to either be using the:

(A.) Guardian’s 1-handed Sword Skills + Guardian Shield Skills
(B.) Guardian’s 1-handed Sword Skills + Warrior Shield Skills
(C.) Warrior’s 1-handed Sword Skills + Guardian Shield Skills
(D.) Warrior’s 1-handed Sword Skills + Warrior Shield Skills

This new system could potentially be intentionally limited to help preserve Profession weapon identities as well, simply by only allowing you to swap one of your equipped weapon’s skill sets to that of your secondary class (IE You can have either A, B, or C from the list above, but you can NEVER have D. Or in other words, one of your equipped weapons must ALWAYS be using the skill set of your main Profession, so that you can’t just be using an entire other class’s weapon set with your own Utilities + Elite slapped on).

CLOSING

Obviously this system would not be balanced in the current game. I’m not suggested something like this should just be slapped on. But imagine if the game was made this way from the start or if the weapon skills system was redesigned to implement such an idea?

In my opinion, this would bring back some much needed variety and build diversity to Guild Wars 2, particularly to the PvP side of the game (not to mention the slew of options it would open up in WvW small-scale combat encounters as well as PvE…though PvE is not difficult regardless, so the tactical variety offered by this system wouldn’t change much there unless PvE becomes more challenging).

This would bring back the Dual Profession mechanic of the first game in the form of Cross-Class Weapon Skills, it would bring variety to the gameplay (imagine seeing an Axe/Axe Warrior…but using cross class skills on his main hand…perhaps throwing the axes by using the Ranger main hand Axe skills while keeping his native Warrior off-hand axe skills!), and it would potentially spice up the game and build diversity in a great way that hearkens back to Guild Wars 1 without entirely destroying the new and separate system that Guild Wars 2 has.

I haven’t really sat and fleshed the entire post out as well as I like, and it may be a bit of a read, but thoughts anyone?

Hello all. Right now I’m trying to figure out how to best gear my Guardian, and these are the two builds/stat set-ups I’ve been toying with. One uses Berserker rings and Knights accessories, and the other uses Knights rings (the precision primary stat, rather than toughness version) and Berserker accessories.

Setup 1: Berserker R, Knight A:
http://gw2buildcraft.com/calculator/guardian/?3.3|2.1g.h15|1.1g.h15|1n.7x.1n.7x.1n.7x.1n.7x.1n.7x.1n.7x|3s.0.2s.d1e.3s.d1e.31j.0.21j.0.2v.0|0.0.u65b.u28b.a4|0.0|v.19.16.1b.1i|e

Setup 2: Knight R, Berserker A:
http://gw2buildcraft.com/calculator/guardian/?3.3|2.1g.h15|1.1g.h15|1n.7x.1n.7x.1n.7x.1n.7x.1n.7x.1n.7x|3s.0.21k.0.31k.0.2s.0.3s.0.2v.0|0.0.u65b.u28b.a4|0.0|v.19.16.1b.1i|e

What I’m aiming for is to be able to sit at around roughly 3k power, 3k armor, 15kish hp, 40-45% crit chance, and 65-70% crit damage. Those numbers aren’t set in stone, just ballpark.

What I’m seeking are opinions, input, help…anything that might help increase the numbers in the builds above, or help make a determination as to which build is probably the better to go with or even ways to improve them further.

Key features of what I want to do:

• Be able to take a pretty good amount of punishment
• Be able to dish consistent (but not incredible) punishment back out
• High crit chance for Empowering Might
• A focus on map-clearing, large group events, but particularly 5-man parties or dungeons

Didn’t read the entire thread yet…

But yes, this crap happened to me too. Spent 4 hours today going through the entire final event process. Got disconnected during a portion of the final fight with the Ancient Karka. When I finally got logged back in and connected to Southsun Shore it was not in the same instance (the overflow) as my party. I kept trying to minutes straight to join my party in the overflow but couldn’t because it was full! When I finally WAS able to join my party the chest had already de-spawned.

I basically spent 4 hours today doing this event, and with nothing to show for it, while I was getting linked all the nice exotics and precursor weapons my more internet-lucky party got.

Would REALLY hope something could be done about this, but not really counting on it at the same time. It leaves a huge, disgusting, and extremely sour taste in the mouth to have tried to clear up time this weekend to support this one-time only event only to get absolutely screwed out of the reward for doing so.

Freyvin.5690:

Please explain why it’s a nerf PvP wise if i can close ground 25% more often and most fights dont allow me to just stand inside a small symbol on the ground for more than a second or two? I’m speaking from WvW open ground fights and skirmishes between small groups, NOT SPvP or dungeons. I can see in dungeons how the dps loss would be felt, but in WvW I personally would rather “leap” more with a blind attached and “ok” damage.

Leaping more is cool and all, but it really doesn’t make up for the collateral damage dealt to Symbol-based builds utilizing the Greatsword. Naturally mobility will always be of a higher priority in PvP.

Suggestion:

Maybe to continue to allow for that newly increased mobility while also making amends for the SoW nerf we could have something like this:

Leap: keep new 15second cooldown
SoW: change it to 15 second cooldown

That basically would be dropping 5 seconds off the original Leap duration (pre-nerf GS Leap was 20 secs) and adding those 5 seconds onto the SoW (changing it from the pre-nerf GS SoW of 10 secs up to 15 secs). This would allow the GS to keep the new mobility provided by the lower cooldown Leap of Faith while still providing a somewhat reasonable cooldown on the Symbol of Wrath.

Personally, I would prefer the original Symbol duration back since it fit right between the Mace and the Staff symbols in cooldown time. This allowed you to easily accommodate any symbol-generating weapon in symbol-based builds, particularly when weapon cycling/swapping to chain or overlap symbols (all had roughly/relative close cooldown times) or to use while your other symbol and weapon skills were on cooldown (active weapon-swapping but still having a symbol available).

The new Symbol of Wrath 20 second cooldown is so kitten high that it creates a huge disparity and makes for far less uptime, when using the Greatsword individually without trying to chain symbols and even when weapon-swapping (it’s really quite stupid to swap from a Greatsword, to a Mace, and then back to Greatsword and still have the Symbol of Wrath be on cooldown…). It basically makes Symbol-based Greatsword builds vastly inferior to where they used to be, kittens the usefulness of the Greatsword in the Zeal traitline (the line it is encouraged in), and does so in an unnecessarily unintuitive and unwarranted manner.

Ganzo.5079:

Ok now, this is not a 100% exact test, with no traits and no random boons, but for all that keep saying that GS was nerfed because it was TOO OP…
now, with this values i can say, NO, it was nerfed because SOW give retaliation!

I’ve actually seen another damage test thread here on these forums that shows the Greatsword and Scepter have the highest damage output in a given time-frame, regardless of whether the Hammer uses the 1 chain + 2 or whether it sticks purely to the 1 chain.

Link for that thread is here: https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/guardian/Scepter-DPS-Tested-To-Equal-GS-DPS/first#post474596

One of the actual issues left unresolved with the Greatsword nerf however is more than just the damage loss. Even if the Greatsword was indeed nerfed because SoW gives Retaliation, it was a clunky and not well-thought-out nerf because it negatively effected several Symbol-based build options with the Greatsword. The issue is a lot more than just damage or the skillbar locations being moved around. A major issue is that build versatility for the Greatsword was hit in a big way by this nerf.

Take a look at this thread that MajorMelchett started. Read the first real post (not the initial post, so basically the second post), and you’ll see a quote there from me explaining the issues and collateral damage to builds done by this Greatsword nerf.

Link: https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/guardian/Greatsword-Symbol-Retaliation-Change-7-10-12/first#post411876

Quick summary from that thread:

Closing/Summary.

The Greatsword gave build variety and versatility. With this unnecessary nerf the Greatsword has become only a tool for finishers, and the symbol synergy it did have has been so severely hit that it’s simply not worth using the Greatsword in any symbol/AoE builds anymore. Yeah, it CAN still be done…but it’s nowhere near as fun or as effective as it used to be, and there is no reason for it to be the way it is now (especially since the nerf was supposed to be to perma-Retaliation builds!).

If Retaliation builds REALLY were the intended target, then work on Retaliation.

There is NO reason for the Symbol of Wrath cooldown to be THAT high. The nerf to the Greatsword has put a huge dent in the build variety and versatility it had previously, as well as hitting the damage and AoE ability of the weapon by more than any reasonable amount. On top of that, many symbol-boosting traits simply do NOT benefit the Greatsword like they used to, and this is a huge problem considering the Greatsword has a symbol in it’s skillset, and that the main trait line that boosts offensive symbol usage (Zeal) is tied to/provides traits to encourage Greatsword usage!

If the Symbol giving Retaliation is the problem, then simply make it give Fury or Might instead!, I cannot believe that ArenaNet went through with this change without considering any of the ramifications it would have on other builds involving the Greatsword.

Dnias.2734:

Another solution is to realize that nothing is wrong with what they did. Forcing ppl to branch off to a weapon swap was probably their intention. You talk about auto attack as if what you were doing before didn’t have it’s own mindless pattern once you found a rotation. 3,4,f1,2 repeat. With the SoW being up on an 8 second cool down from the press of the button, meant that we could cleanse conditions with almost a 100% up time of SoW. I was 20 points into zeal line. Since nerf I have stripped Zeal line and dumped it all into radiance, touchiness and virtues, and I might add, I like the build a lot better.

Why wouldn’t they force a weapon swap on the Mace or the Staff then by drastically increasing the cooldowns on their respective symbols? The Mace symbol provides solid healing (a hefty amount of healing when coupled with the symbol-healing trait) and creates a Light field, all on an 8 second cooldown. Traited for increased AoE and for symbol-healing that Mace symbol can output a hefty amount of green numbers. The Staff can provide Swiftness every 15 seconds (12 seconds when traited for cooldown) in an AoE (a large AoE if traited properly) to all allies passing through while also doing damage to enemies. Why not “encourage” weapon-swapping by nerfing the cooldowns on those symbols? I just don’t think that argument holds any weight.

I don’t know about this 3, 4, F1, 2, repeat pattern. Some people might have used that, but my personal pattern was different. The fact that the pattern you speak of is different from mine enhances the point that the previous version of SoW had elegance of design. You could easily fit it into your combat rotation wherever you liked AND for multiple purposes. Now it hardly has a place in the rotation at all. It’s more of a “I’ll cast it every now and then, but I won’t be missing it while on cooldown since it doesn’t contribute much anyway” skill, whereas before it was just as bread-and-butter to the Greatsword as the Mace symbol is to the Mace rotation.

Personally, I always liked to Leap onto a target (GS 4), Symbol and then Spin (GS 2 and then GS 3), activating F1 right as I started to spin. I also made heavy use of dodge-rolling (even in PvE) and being able to control enemy positioning and movement by creating a “no-fly zone” (using SoW) around me was a key part of the playstyle (by using SoW AoE you discourage competent enemies from standing in it, thus forcing enemies to engage you on your own terms either inside or outside of your AoE, essentially letting you control and defend the ground you stand on like a Guardian should).

Actions like that are simply no longer available as readily as they were before. The active, flowing, and natural/elegant part of the GS skills has been kittened in exchange for a new SoW that simply is not up-to-par with the cooldown it has. The skill itself is not powerful enough, does not provide enough terrain/objective control, and does not offer near-enough usage or build versatility to justify or dictate that 20 second cooldown.

Yes, SoW could allow you to cleanse conditions quite readily. If that was an issue then it should have been stated as such by the developers in the patch notes, and the combo field should simply have been changed to another type (Fire perhaps, to keep consistent with the Guardian theme). Again, this all goes back to how inelegant of a method they used to nerf SoW (supposedly for Retaliation-build purposes) and caused collateral damage to other builds, playstyles, and the GS weapon itself in the process.

That’s great that you’ve found a new build you like better, really. But what about people who liked the symbol-based builds better? What about people who like meditation builds? Or Altruistic Healing builds? What do those builds have to do with this? Nothing really, which is the point:

Discovering a new build and liking it more changes nothing about how this SoW change caused vast harm to the viability and the versatility of the GS in Symbol-based builds, the GS in relation to the Zeal trait-line, and the combat flow/elegance/usability of the GS skillset. The change decreased our build options and made Greatsword combat less pro-active and more passive, whether it encouraged you to look for another build or not.

plasmacutter.2709:

Again, it wasn’t mindless, it was elegant.

The abilities in the weapon dovetailed well with one another and with its trait line.

Tone down the burst damage, sure! Adjust the boons and conditions it applies, sure!

Hobble it, filling it with “dead auto-swing time” and making it completely incongruous with the profession like they just did? Hell no!

You put governors on sports cars to make them street legal, you don’t wreck their suspension, fit them with square tires, or remove 4 of the gears from their transmission.

Hit the nail on the head. The way the GS was before provided for smooth and simple yet elegant gameplay. There was a natural flow or progression within the abilities of the weapon. You could force terrain and positional control since you had access to low cooldown AoE abilities (GS 2 SoW + GS 3 WW). Occasionally you can drag enemies into your AoE abilities (GS 5 BB). Now however, you not only have less build variety due to the horrendous cooldown on the SoW, but you also have less terrain and positional control of the enemy since you can no longer force enemy movement by laying down the SoW as readily.

No matter how you look at it, effectiveness, build versatility and variety, combat flow, and ability to force enemy repositioning was nerfed on GS, and without any kind of improvement, compensation, or exchange in any of those areas in return. There is no added elegance, improvement in gameplay, or other option as a tradeoff (now we can Leap more…woot). The nerf is a total negative as far as the GS goes.

Regardless of how one looks at it however, I would hope that we can all agree that the way the changes were applied (and maybe even the changes themselves) were simply not the best way to go about it all.

Hell, in just a bit of hashing around, the Guardian community has come up with very elegant solutions to the SoW change (the GS nerf) and SY! (Save Yourselves shout). Not going to rehash them here since they have been stated already in various threads and posts.

Time and again though, we get no input or response from development, no explanations (it doesn’t have to be an apology, just an explanation), and nothing other than these nerfs/changes that wind up leaving the Guardian community to hash it all out for themselves in order to come up with a solution or try to understand ANet’s methodology (which appears to be a bit all-over-the-place). In doing so, we wind up becoming divisive and cut into each other.

Not everyone is going to agree on the rationale behind every change, but I think we could at least all agree that it’d be nice to have ANet get in here and do all Guardians a favor by explaining their changes and responding to unanswered suggestions from us (Scepters, Shields, GS come to mind…)

AbsintheMinded.4609:

You’ll have to get over it if someone is trying to always look subjectively at things, it’s not “specious” and it’s not “calling someone out” just by disagreeing with them.

(Emphasis added above)

I think most people are looking at it subjectively…which is why objective facts about which builds were damaged and what negative effects came out of the GS nerf (as well as the nerf not even hitting what it was supposed to be targeting successfully) have been presented for all to peruse without bias -.-

Edit: Fixed a typo

Asmodal.6489:

yes the nerf broke one build… Because ist was clearly op.

anet gave some lame excuse u do Not have to buy. Get over it. gs is still viable. U just can Not have a perma Symbol up anymore. If its Not about the retaliation use Mace as secondery and the you are golden again.

Please do Not make this Sound like an official outrage of the guardian Community. it really is not.

As was already said, it was never possible to use a perma-Symbol with the GS. This also broke more than one build…read the initial posting in this thread and you’ll see that.
If the issue was this so-called “perma-Symbol” build, then why wasn’t the Mace Symbol nerfed? The Mace Symbol has an 8 second cooldown and provides Regeneration. That, coupled with increased AoE and Symbol-healing traits surely would make the Mace Symbol stupidly OP right? (Answer: no).

There was not a single thing that made GS Symbols OP, and as has been stated so many times already, if it was the Symbol giving Retaliation that was the issue then why wasn’t the boon simply changed to something else?

And the solution on the player’s end is not simply to use the Mace instead if it’s not about the Retaliation on the GS Symbol… (really…c’mon now, “use another weapon, it’s close enough” is essentially what you are saying, when the Mace is a completely different style of play).

The solution is to find out why the nerf that was stated to be aimed at Retaliation instead broke other GS builds. Really, this has been stated so clearly so many times, that for people not to understand that (EVEN IF YOU ARE COMPLETELY FINE WITH THE GS CHANGE) is completely beyond me.

People make this sound like an outrage (or to be much better stated, an issue/legitimate complaint) within the Guardian community because it is. You may not be irked about it in any way/shape/or form, but there are many others who are (who have posted here and in other threads). A portion of the community looking for answers from ANet is still the community.

There is no reason to just let it be swept under the rug. No good will come from that, and it then opens the door to all kinds of other game mechanics changes with shoddy explanations.

An extreme example: what if you read patch notes one day that read something like this…“Guardians traited properly could have a constant Vigor boon up for increased stamina recovery. This allowed them to dodge very frequently. We decreased the natural stamina recovery rate of all classes across the board in order to help curb that a bit. Guardians should no longer be able to dodge as readily.”…the obvious solution in that particular case would be to target the trait that allows Guardians to have nearly full stamina all the time rather than blatantly nerfing everyone’s stamina recovery across the board. It’s a case of aiming for one thing (perma-stamina regen on Guardians) and causing huge and unnecessary collateral damage in other areas in the process (reduced stamina regen for everyone altogether), while still doing very little about the stated initial problem in this example (Guardians can still maintain Vigor, the nerf did little to hurt their own stamina recovery despite being stated to do so).

The GS nerf aimed for one thing (Retaliation builds), did little about it (perma-Retaliation builds were barely scuffed by the GS change at all), and took out a bunch of other options in the process (builds options and versatility already mentioned in the main post on page 1).

EDIT: Having quoting issues again. Fixed it.

AbsintheMinded.4609:

They stated that they wanted to reduce the ease at which Retaliation is kept up, and they doubled the Retaliation symbol’s cooldown. How did they do something different?

If your complaint is with changing the order, then… I’m sorry. I’m not going to make excuses or reasons for ANet, but I will say the overwhelming amount of QQ is just silly. Just get used to the new one, or, better yet, re-bind your keys to what they previously were. Most people don’t need to look down to see what number the ability they want is anyway, so it shouldn’t make a difference if your #3 is bound to 4 or not.

They did something different because most Perma-Retaliation builds did not revolve around the Greatsword’s Symbol of Wrath, and nerfing Symbol of Wrath did nothing to shut down the ease with which Perma-Retaliation is kept up. So yeah, their Greatsword nerf was intended to do one thing (make it harder to Retaliate and upkeep Perma-Retaliation), and in the process it failed to achieve its intended goal while also causing huge collateral damage to Greatsword Symbol-based builds by failing to take into any kind of consideration what effects doubling the symbol’s cooldown would do. Anyone could look at the issue for five minutes (even less) and come to the conclusion that doubling the symbol’s cooldown would negatively effect many other builds while having a very minimal impact upon Retaliation-builds. To have gone through with the nerf knowing that is a huge error, bad game/balance design, and just put a bullet in the head of the build versatility options of the Greatsword.

So basically:

Nerf greatsword results =

Pros: Retaliation of Greatsword harder to keep up

Cons: Symbol duration doubled, Greatsword damage output nerfed, Greatsword AoE healing capabilities through symbols nerfed, ability to apply Vulnerability through Greatsword symbol nerfed, AoE damage of the Greatsword nerfed. Support and damage functions of the Greatsword nerfed heavily.

There definitely is an overwhelming amount of QQ. There are also an overwhelming amount of legitimate complaints about the increased cooldown on the Symbol of Wrath negatively effecting Greatsword Symbol-based builds in a huge way. In fact, that is the greater issue at hand here.

Also, rebinding keys does no good, and is a nearly-ignorant suggestion, as it would completely kitten someone’s muscle memory on EVERY other weapon they swap to just for the sake of preserving one. It’s not about the skill location (although having the skill back in the same slot or being able to freely swap skills in the 1-5 slots would be really nice).

Arkadi.7451:

I think this change highlights a much larger issue in that whenever there is a cool-down balancing change (nerf or buff) on any profession the skill order on the weapon set could change as the ordering is linked to the cool-down length. As many people have said on this thread, it’s not the buff/nerf we’re objecting to, but the change in muscle memory that’s incredibly hard to shake. I don’t understand the logic in linking skill order to cool-down length anyway.

And to those suggesting we simply rebind keys, what shall we do when we weapon swap or go underwater? The same issue exists as a result of the rebound keys.

Sorry, but it IS the nerf that I am objecting to. Yes, the muscle memory thing is hard to shake. But that doesn’t effect builds any. Changing the location of a skill on a hotbar doesn’t negatively effect a build. The doubled cooldown on the Symbol of Wrath however DOES negatively effect several other builds. Symbol-based builds with the Greatsword were ruined unnecessarily. It has been pointed out clearly how this is the case in many threads and posts now.

To condense it all into a simple complaint about muscle memory doesn’t do any justice to the fact that this nerf kittened Greatsword + Symbol Guardian builds in a huge way, especially when the nerf was supposed to be about taming Retaliation-based builds, not Symbol-based builds.

Edit: Null change. Was to add a new signature addition but it updated on its own.

Dnias.2734:

I am a guardian, and I did love the constant output of DPS, but lets be serious….we were waaaaay OPed. Also for ppl complaining about how they auto attack #1 until their CD’s are done. I believe people should try conditioning yourself to swap wpns during combat… It really amazes me how mindless some people can be when they get stuck into a routine and then that routine changes because changes were made to the process in which they went about things.

The issue isn’t weapon swapping (I can weapon swap just fine thank you, as I’m sure nearly everyone giving reasonable complaint on the REAL problem can).

The issue isn’t “waaaah, I can’t mash the same key as quickly!”

The issue most certainly was not our DPS in comparison to other classes (that’s almost laughable, considering the Guardian outputs fairly consistent damage, but nothing to write home about in comparison to say Thieves or Warriors).

As has been stated clearly, succinctly, and multiple times, the issue IS the complete derailing and destruction of ANY sort of viability on Guardians using Symbol-based Builds with a Greatsword. The Greatsword’s synergy with Symbol-based builds was nerfed excessively and without any proper reasoning (the nerf was SUPPOSED to be towards Retaliation-builds!).

Rather than passing this off as a complaint about “ack, my routine changed” or people not weapon swapping properly, please look at, comprehend, and acknowledge the REAL issue that has been clearly presented.

Very simply: that cooldown nerf BROKE Symbol-based builds with the Greatsword. THAT is what it comes down to.

EDIT: Inserted proper quote. It wasn’t working right at first.

Still no ANet response? Disappointing.

I was hoping for better from them, and seeing results like this (no reply or statement on it all despite the community bringing it up across multiple threads and clearly, succinctly, and politely explaining the issue) are a little too reminiscent of Blizzard/Diablo 3 for my tastes…

Yeah…this change really did kill a lot of the fun I was having with my GS Guardian as well. I’ve actually wound up shelving GW2 for a bit because of it. I simply don’t enjoy the other weapons as much as I do (or “did” rather) the GS. I’ve experimented with my Thief a bit more since the GS nerf, but I want to play my Guardian and enjoy dropping symbols and spinning with my GS.

It’s disheartening, and I wish ArenaNet would give us some kind of acknowledgement or word back on the issue. /Sigh

Edit: Null change. Was to add a new signature addition but it updated on its own.

Bumping and hoping for that ArenaNet response…

(Taken from my post in the Guardian sub-forum, from the Greatsword topics there)

Changes made to Greatsword by Patch

The stated goal of the Greatsword nerf was essentially to nerf Retaliation builds. So, in order to nerf Retaliation builds the following changes were made to the Greatsword:

GS #2 Whirling Wrath: No change, still a 10sec Cooldown
GS #3 Leap of Faith: Cooldown down to 15secs from 20secs
GS #4 Symbol of Wrath: Doubled Cooldown from 10secs to 20secs

While I am mildly miffed at the rearrangement of the skill order following these changes (as weapon skills are organized in order of Cooldown on your hotbar) that is NOT my complaint.

THE PROBLEM IS HERE

The nerf to Symbol of Wrath on the Greatsword did NOT nerf Retaliation builds as intended.

The nerf to Symbol of Wrath on the Greatsword did nerf SEVERAL OTHER builds that utilized that symbol.

Breakdown of Negative Effects

Symbol of Wrath was previously on a 10 second cooldown, exactly the same as Whirling Wrath. This allowed a Greatsword Guardian to branch into several builds and varying combat options.

If you wanted to deal a hefty amount of AoE damage, then the Greatsword was your go-to weapon. Between the Symbol of Wrath and Whirling Wrath the Greatsword let the Guardian be an AoE damage-dealing machine. This simply isn’t possible like it was before, as a Guardian simply cannot get the same damage output in the same time-frame thanks to the increased cooldown.

This isn’t only about the loss of damage though. The Greatsword also provided BUILD DIVERSITY/VERSATILITY by having a symbol in it’s weapon skillset and some synergy in the Zeal trait line. Unfortunately, all symbol-based trait builds that utilized the Greatsword took a huge and UNNECESSARY hit this patch:

If you wanted to use the Symbol of Wrath as a large AoE (by traiting for increased radius) in conjuction with other Guardian AoE’s (such as Purging Flames) for great AoE damage, you could do that.

If you wanted to use the Symbol of Wrath to heal yourself/allies (by traiting for symbol healing) and thus provide AoE support, you could do that.

If you wanted to use the Symbol of Wrath primarily as a damage-dealer and way to apply Vulnerability, you could do that (by traiting into the Zeal line).

If you wanted to use the Symbol of Wrath to chain with other weapon Symbols you could do so readily, as the Greatsword symbol had a cooldown that would typically be ready to go on weapon-swap if you cycled between a Mace or a Staff as your other symbol weapon.

Basically, the Greatsword previously had a reliable AoE symbol that would be up every fight, would help with your damage output, could catch many enemies in it (if you traited for increased symbol radius), could heal yourself and allies (if you traited for symbol healing), could apply Vulnerability to foes (if you traited for that via the Zeal line), could do increased damage (again, if you traited high enough into the Zeal line), and could be chained or used in tandem with other symbols very readily.

Yeah, the Greatsword can still do those things…but now it’s every 20 seconds. In the meantime, you’re practically stuck spinning with Whirling Wrath, using Leap of Faith 5 seconds sooner than you previously would, and then auto-attacking the rest of the time while you wait for the now abhorrent cooldowns of the Greatsword’s main damage-dealing skills.

Closing/Summary

The Greatsword gave build variety and versatility. With this unnecessary nerf the Greatsword has become only a tool for finishers, and the symbol synergy it did have has been so severely hit that it’s simply not worth using the Greatsword in any symbol/AoE builds anymore. Yeah, it CAN still be done…but it’s nowhere near as fun or as effective as it used to be, and there is no reason for it to be the way it is now (especially since the nerf was supposed to be to perma-Retaliation builds!).

If Retaliation builds REALLY were the intended target, then work on Retaliation.

There is NO reason for the Symbol of Wrath cooldown to be THAT high. The nerf to the Greatsword has put a huge dent in the build variety and versatility it had previously, as well as hitting the damage and AoE ability of the weapon by more than any reasonable amount. On top of that, many symbol-boosting traits simply do NOT benefit the Greatsword like they used to, and this is a huge problem considering the Greatsword has a symbol in it’s skillset, and that the main trait line that boosts offensive symbol usage (Zeal) is tied to/provides traits to encourage Greatsword usage!

If the Symbol giving Retaliation is the problem, then simply make it give Fury or Might instead! I cannot believe that ArenaNet went through with this change without considering any of the ramifications it would have on other builds involving the Greatsword.