Guild Wars 2

This is basically how I feel about S/D right now, it’s painful to even try and use it in PvP.. let alone in WvW. This is probably the worst change made in my opinion.

The suggested change for Acro is what I was honestly hoping for, I wouldn’t mind if we got back a set amount of endurance on a successful dodge with a 2s cd.

If they kept this vigor generation on dodge, it would have been great if it was initially at 100% potency and buffed to 125% with endless stamina at least this way the endurance regeneration is faster than base make the setup a bit viable. But as it stands it’s just so weak that I really don’t know why this change wasn’t thought out before implementing.

StickerHappy.8052:

Ithilwen.1529:

@warlord of chaos

What are you? a ranger mole? I’ve waited literally years to be a powerful class and you want to see us nerfed into irrelavance again? If you are really so good that these changes have made you unbeatable and you feel nerfs are needed… I recommend you look at finding a real world life.

Lol. Atleast rylock dpends on skill not buffs. Eventhough this person rekts me a lot, I respect this guy. I would say it takes skill even without buffs to be a good mesmer.

Rylock was almost if not completely unbeatable for me even before these changes happened. I am not kidding. I am not a bad mesmer myself either, but Rylock eats me alive pre patch.

He eats you… sounds kinky

So I recently decided to main mesmer and I came to these forums expecting a lot of excited threads with how mesmer has become really good. However, instead all I seem to see are threads with a lot of whining about the BUFFS?!!

I don’t understand this, could someone clear this up as to why these buffs are bad? Before when I visited these forums it was posts complaining about why mesmer has been nerfed and was not very strong, but now it’s the opposite… I find this kind of ridiculous.

I personally thing this is where mesmers should be, it makes them closer to GW1 mesmers and it’s put them at the tier they really needed to be.

This is probably the most kitten suggestion I have seen, I don’t understand why you need 10s icd and further complicating the trait by making target based icd. The trait is good as it is now because it requires actual thinking to apply the stun to a target that needs to be focused down instead of just dropping an AoE stun in a group.

Chaos Archangel.5071:

When I first logged in after the patch I nearly went cross-eyed when I saw all the colors and stylized specialization bar. So much color and so many strange icons!

Everything is cool and all, but one thing that’s been bugging me is the Unicorn that symbolizes the inspiration line. Now, don’t get me wrong, Mesmer has always been a bit of a … Uh.. For lack of better word, flamboyant class. Purple butterflies and all but…

A unicorn though!

Its really biting at my ’Murican sensibilities. All Mesmer symbolism in the past have been open to interpretation, working decently for either a male or a female. Hell, I live in the ghetto and could still show off Mesmer to my less-open-minded friends without getting weird looks.

… But a unicorn!?

There are other images in the new specialization bars that are clearly more on the effeminate side, but that unicorn is blatantly screaming “Ladies would love this faaaaabulous rainbow horse!”

I know I’m gonna get flamed to death for this, but could we get some icons that are more gender-neutral? =/ I feel a smidge of insecurity every time I look at my traitlines.

(inb4: “suck it up, buttercup!”)

I don’t understand what the issue here is, are you really whining about an icon now?
The last thread you were complaining about how everyone plays Ci now when you were the one who tried to propagate lockdown for a while… I think you need to go outside more.

Scootabuser.4915:

You actually have way more damage that got rolled in and from traits you can pick now, and because your not locked into picking initiative traits you get to pick up a TON of utility from other traits.

The only thing p/p lost was a tiny bit of range, and ricochet.

It didn’t lose any range. I am not sure why this isn’t displayed on the tooltip, but, going into critical strikes and selecting ankle shots also increases pistol range to 1050 (don’t know if this was intended or not)

Kicker.8203:

The super OP deadly arts is gonna increase the gap between s/d and d/p even more, since d/p thieves can take a lot more advantage from immobilizes than s/d due to their devastating autoattack. S/D gameplay is the most reactive -and imo fun- playstyle, since you have to constantly be aware what your opponents are doing, unlike random blind, stealth spam + out-DPS kind of thieves.
Also the new Feline Grace trait is complete rubbish… u need a succesful dodge to trigger the Vigor(when you have to dodge a lot randomly against stealthed foes or any class with attack rates faster than reaction time), which is on THREEE?!?!?!?!?! seconds cooldown when a dodge roll lasts 0.75 seconds, so if you perma dodge you get it on every 4th or 5th dodge.
I’d just lower its cooldown to 0.75 sec and increase vigor potency by a larger amount like +50% vigor effectiveness to make up for the dodges possibly not evading anything and the slow nature of vigor opposed to instant endurance gain.(vigor can also be stolen or removed), furthermore vigor on heal trait cannot be taken, because of the lack of condition removal, so people have to take Pain Response instead.

Edit: in short: Even cele eles have permanent vigor, but thieves won’t…

It’s not a successful dodge it’s a successful evade, they made a clarification of this during the stream… it’s any action you do that evades e.g S/D 3 or SB 3 or Dodge.

I think backstab needs to have a built in function to automatically Alt+F4 the player when using it, that way the enemy always wins and no QQ.

Sting like a hornet, die like a mosquito

Chapell.1346:

Josh Davis.6015:

So please, take this as a friendly reminder

Now we`re talking eh. rules, i like rules it makes real men a real man. guess we cant play the game the way we want now. kidding aside.
Looking forward to see this man made rules (bring the banhammer to those who shall oppose) and may the wind always be at your back, and the sun always upon your face, and may the wings of destiny carry you aloft to dance with the stars to bring this game where it belong.

you should always treat your fellow players in a decent manner, and in accordance with the Guild Wars 2 User Agreement and Code of Conduct. If you’re planning on playing competitively in the WTS, community events, or otherwise, you will be under additional scrutiny.

And to differentiate trash talking and harassment, may the screenshot below will enlightened you all.
i feel dirty when i got this kind of foolishly word on a foolish fool who foolishly accused me stalking someone foolishness online, such a foolishly coward fool.

This is one thing that annoys me the most, I don’t understand why ANet hasn’t made it so that if someone blocks you, their messages aren’t visible. It’s pretty silly that they can still send you whispers and messages until you block them back.

I loved S/D, I have been playing it for a long while now and I always thought of it as the most fluid weapon set that required finesse to play. However, now it’s just been crippled and made into a clunky unreliable set.

Sword was never really a burst weapon in comparison to Dagger (I also presume your BP helped a lot when soloing camps with a D/P build), so that’s one thing you will need to get used to. You can pull the vet’s out one by one and deal with them individually.

I personally find the best way to deal with camps with an S/D build is to use the Shortbow for the AoE damage from Cluster Bomb and the poison from Choaking gas.

On a side note, if you have enough karma, you can get a full exotic Zerker set from a vendor at the Temple of Grenth which will save you quite a bit of money and you can use either Superior rune of rage or ruby orbs till you acquire enough money to get scholars. Rage runes will give you a guaranteed near 100% fury up-time so you will be dealing the +5% damage majority of the time (currently ~50s per rune ~3g for entire set) and Ruby Orbs are a very cheap alternative as they provide a boost in Zerker stats.

As suggested by others here, practice with 5/6/0/3/0 until you feel comfortable enough with timing your dodges and positioning yourself against the bosses, then swap to 6/6/0/0/2.

I don’t know how much S/P will be affected in PvE from the upcoming black powder nerf, however, I think it’s safe to say that it’ll stay as the main trash mob dealing set post nerf as well.

I am just waiting for my AoE Backstab

AikijinX.6258:

Video reuploaded! Now has 720-1080p capability. And added chat box banner, all thanks to Mugentora!~~ Thankies!.

Enjoy!

You are welcome and noice vid.

The real question here is why is a 1 year old thread necro-ed for something that’s been nerfed for a long while now.

BrunoBRS.5178:

FZeroWing.2098:

borgs.6103:

What’s next, using stealth reveals you?

Well, the SA trait that stealths you on steal is bugged, so you get revealed when you stealth from the steal. I guess this counts, until they bother fixing it.

it’s not a bug, you’re probably using a projectile weapon. the pistol shot (for example) that’s in travel time hits the target right after you stealth, so it looks bugged.

they should fix that though.

No, it is a bug, it’s even listed in the thief bugs post. I am not talking about using an attack before stealing, it’s directly from the steal itself since mug appearently procs slightly after the steal which gives you the stealth from SA Trait first before causing the mug damage making you revealed.

Since you are spec-ing into CS line, you are better off swapping side strike with furious retal, and practiced tolerance for signet use or critical haste (you have enough toughness to survive with ~13.5K HP) unless you don’t feel comfortable with 13.5K HP.

By changing Side strike to FR -> get rid of Thrill of Crime (since you are running Pack runes, it’s really not necessary for this trait) for Long Reach or Flanking Strike.

Personally for food I run Omnomberry for the life steal, however, what you have is pretty good as well.

It also does it with Shadowstep, but it’s worse because it will use shadow return sometimes as well.

borgs.6103:

What’s next, using stealth reveals you?

Well, the SA trait that stealths you on steal is bugged, so you get revealed when you stealth from the steal. I guess this counts, until they bother fixing it.

METAShift.2913:

Was on mag as well, can confirm roaming solo and in small groups is usually good. It’s a bit more problematic on other classes since t2 does have some rather large blobs coming around occasionally, and some do have tryhards that will chase you down halfway across the map with 10 people, but as a thief that shouldn’t be a problem.

^ This, I got chased yesterday by some FA group… They stacked for might and chased me >_>.

The 5th skill should be called “Sinful Whip”
Does Instant KO to self and 25 stacks of torment to 5 targets (1.5K range)
Resurrects 2 fallen allies via Atonement buff from whipping (1K range)

If you are going to roam, prepare to drop your pants because a zerg will roll you during prime time (sometimes). Otherwise, it’s pretty good.

I have been in SoS for about a couple months now (xfer from SoR), and I found it to be a lot better than lower tiers for roaming.

Granted, this nerf will more than likely go through, I wish they would at least compensate it by giving the double boon rip back to LS.

Dahkeus.8243:

FZeroWing.2098:

ninja nurse is legit now

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fZAQNAqYVnMJS3TW1EGNB/TmImQ4e3veelW7DLCA-T1yGABA8IAu9EAooKEroWALqqIy+DfoNgOlg5eEAYS5XH6AIEg01A-w

This could actually work, all you do is stand in your group and press venoms to heal them and some condi pressure.

One stun and you’re toast…

It’s a dangerous life, but if you are running with a good group they can provide you the stab that you may need. Or you can swap SR for SS.

ninja nurse is legit now

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fZAQNAqYVnMJS3TW1EGNB/TmImQ4e3veelW7DLCA-T1yGABA8IAu9EAooKEroWALqqIy+DfoNgOlg5eEAYS5XH6AIEg01A-w

This could actually work, all you do is stand in your group and press venoms to heal them and some condi pressure.

Well, looks like it’s back to the dumps with sword, it was a good year and a half.

Jugglemonkey.8741:

FZeroWing.2098:

Jugglemonkey.8741:

Nice vid, real nice comeback on the fight with the ele, assassin’s reward saves the day! lol

I use pain response instead of assassin’s reward, but that’s mainly because of my lack of hoelbrak runes, I’m still not sure which is the better option tbh. Pain response is one of those traits that you never notice working until you try fighting without it, and I didn’t like the idea of having to buy – condi food to make the runes worth it. I use shortbow offhand though, for P/D you’re probably better as you are with the extra might :P

Thank you! Ha-ha, yeah, I might have undermined Assassins reward before, but it’s saved my life on several occasions. I do use pain response if I know I’ll be dealing with condi heavy opponents, however, I still try to fight with AR simply due to how well it synergizes with blood sigil and life steal food. Don’t get me wrong, I think Pain Response is kitten good, I just seem to have better survival with AR most of the time.

If you don’t mind me asking, what rune set do you run?

That makes sense, I remember one time being chased around bay multiple times by a warrior and mesmer that just wouldn’t let me res my mesmer friend (it was their keep, minor detail), assassin’s reward was the main thing that kept me alive lol.

You’re welcome to ask ^^ I use pack runes atm. This is what I run, to save typing it:

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fZUQNAsYVl0Mp0pdPx3JsPNBNB5dY+SZ0KAdHl+GEA-T1CBABVqqyZKBl4UAglyLvUiAwDAwS1KyTTQR7PkieAGOCABAQACJOxATciTciTciNxJOxJOxJWKgnmAA-w

I like the idea of might stacking but that means using power of inertia over either pain response or hard to catch, another trait that has randomly saved my life numerous times despite the hate it gets on the forums.

From my testing with hoelbrak runes in PvP I seem to average 6 (max 7) might stacks with power of inertia and signet of agility whilst dodging whenever possible, so an extra 210 power & condi damage, and thrill of the crime gives you 59% fury uptime. With pack runes I get potentially permanent fury uptime and an extra 100 precision. You do use signet of agility which gives an extra 180 precision though, whereas I don’t tend to. So you will beat me for DPS while you have fury and the signet’s passive is up, not sure about when it’s on cooldown though.

You get the extra – condi duration on hoelbrak runes which I like, but since almost everything heavily condi focussed runs +40% condi duration food and is slower than me, I’m not really sure it’s much of a benefit. That’s my two cents anyway.

I dunno, maybe I’m just too stingy to pay 60g for a set of runes lol. Sorry about the long post too, I have a propensity for unnecessary verbosity :P

Apologies for the delayed reply!

Ah, I figured you might be running pack runes, it’s a set that I have looked into and I do enjoy the fury/swiftness uptime from it. You also get 125 prec passive bonus from the 6th attribute which is quite nifty.

I run SoA for the extra dodges (of course XD) and the single condi clear it comes with, I also feel it’s a pretty decent support utility when running in group as well. When it’s active, however, as you might have figured there is DPS loss, though it is not that much lower since my crit chance (with fury) is around 66% and I gain the benefit of the might stacks to somewhat counter the DPS loss (I haven’t done the math yet, but I can report back to you with proper numbers).

Ha-ha, yes 60g is quite a hefty price, I was lucky in purchasing them before they became so expensive. You do make valid points regardless, as I too used to run Pain Response with Assassins Reward before the Lyssa rune nerf.

As for the Hoelbraks, the -condi duration might not be that high, but I feel it’s enough to counteract the +40% Condi duration foods… Even if it’s only a bit it helps.

Jugglemonkey.8741:

Nice vid, real nice comeback on the fight with the ele, assassin’s reward saves the day! lol

I use pain response instead of assassin’s reward, but that’s mainly because of my lack of hoelbrak runes, I’m still not sure which is the better option tbh. Pain response is one of those traits that you never notice working until you try fighting without it, and I didn’t like the idea of having to buy – condi food to make the runes worth it. I use shortbow offhand though, for P/D you’re probably better as you are with the extra might :P

Thank you! Ha-ha, yeah, I might have undermined Assassins reward before, but it’s saved my life on several occasions. I do use pain response if I know I’ll be dealing with condi heavy opponents, however, I still try to fight with AR simply due to how well it synergizes with blood sigil and life steal food. Don’t get me wrong, I think Pain Response is kitten good, I just seem to have better survival with AR most of the time.

If you don’t mind me asking, what rune set do you run?

Emi.4152:

i like how you used shadow step offensively so much :> using about turn and free camera might make your withdraws more accurate though!

Thank you. I actually do have about face mapped, I just need to start using it more often lol. As for free camera, it’s something I need to explore and get used to.

Introductions
Hello fellow thief comrades!

My name is Mugentora, you might kind of know me from my previous s/d roaming/duels video post (perhaps XD, I guess it’s been 2 months since then lol).

I have moved from SoR to SoS, as dropping into T7 made roaming relatively boring.

This video is post patch, of course, it contains more 1v1’s with a couple of 2v2 fights that were personally enjoyable. Interestingly enough, I didn’t realize that the 2v2’s were both against 2 warriors till I finished making the video and uploaded it. I consider myself a decent thief, I believe I still can improve a lot more. I hope you guys enjoy this video!

Video and Analysis

Notes about video

*The intro zooms past a bit too quickly, this was something I didn’t really pay attention to :|, so apologies if you weren’t able to catch anything from that intro. I’ll fix this up next video. Also, I was thinking of using that intro music as my-go-to-thing, let me know what you guys think and if I should change it, suggestions are appreciated.

Personal analysis

From re-watching that footage, I can say that there are a few mistakes I made which could have been the end of me in those fights. I need to also keep a closer eye on the enemy boon bar, to check for blocks. I have, however, taken your suggestions and have been attempting to use them to further improve myself as a thief and I believe that performance wise I think this video can show some of that improvement. Also, apologies for the fights not being very diverse class wise, I have extra footage which I plan to use in my next video. As always I am open to constructive critisism, as I believe that the only way to improve is knowing one’s flaws and work on reducing them.

Build

http://intothemists.com/calc/?build=-c;4Vwkb0K5R-Fd0;9;49;0TT2;621A46BIFW0I;1qObSqObSu-FvF6k1S;2bVf0l1q2x3252kVJ-2L0;9;9;9;9;9;9;0Ek3v

I have updated my build since the feature patch, this build is a lot more glassy, but I enjoy it for the challenge it brings in 3v1’s and so on. I swapped to Hoelbraks, since it was best of both worlds between Strength and Melandru’s. The condi duration reduction is very handy in WvW, and has helped me survive condi bursts more than a few times.

I swap out RFI for SR when running in group, for added support utility.

Pros

• Very evasive
• Good amount of extra health for survivability
• Extra stun breaks
• Good damage, when coupled with the minor trait in Acro, Fluid strikes, it becomes even more effective.
• Might stacks, in the duration of a fight this build can maintain around 10 stacks of might and at most 13 stacks.

Cons

• Susceptible to heavy direct damage, since there is nothing in SA or added toughness
• Condi is a relative inconvenience
• Eviscerate will usually kill you in 1-2 hit from a might stacked war.

Ending Remarks

I hope you guys enjoyed it.

I would also like to thank the many of you who have put aside their time to watch/read this, I really appreciate it.

Also a special thank you to those who dueled me!

I do apologize for the long post, hopefully it’s not too crazy hehe.

—Regards,
Mugentora

2825/3516 over 529 days, not bad I suppose…

Meryn.6875:

SatanMayCry.1964:

Meryn.6875:

6|6|0|2|0 i’d guess, most output DPS, since its not that hard to survive when you know all tells and timings. 5|6|0|3|0 is okay as well

But for starters x/6/x/3/x might be best (spend your deadly arts on survival) untill you feel comfortable enough

But what about utilities?

Signet of agility+assassins for damage, and shadowstep because its awesome

Also not to forget Daggerstorm Elite

What I really don’t understand though, is the kitten talkers who whisper you and then block you. Why do they even bother kitten talking if they don’t have the balls to get a reply. Granted I don’t feed the ragers, I usually respond politely to throw them off.. but really I get raged at many times and I find it pretty funny that I get insta blocked. I wish ANet made it so you couldn’t whisper to the person you blocked… it’s just annoying -.-

I was running around naked in TPvP and Eviscerate took out all my health in one go… this was when I didn’t realize my armor rating would drop to 1200 from getting rid of chest, leggings, and feet :|

I know posting this is going to be very mean of me, however i found this one pretty funny. I was bored one day so i decided to roll only Sword main hand for funzies with group and I happened on a mesmer who I was able to kill solo and I got the following whisper. to be fair, I did have a secondary weapon and it was my SB but i didn’t really use it the entire fight. Also I don’t know why.. but regardless of what happens when I roam with group I end up getting 90% of the hate whispers :|

And the second one I had posted in a thread long back but here it is again.

righteousness.6028:

@OP What do you think about running 6 in crit over 6 acro, but keeping the 6 in trickery?

Essentially what Tachii said, it’s got damage potential but you are at risk of having a lot less survivability. You could perhaps counter that with more vit/toughness based gear, though it would be at the compromise of several useful boons and passive utilities such as swiftness on dodge, vigor from heal, an extra dodge, and the relatively useful regen from pain response.

It is not a bad setup though, as it’s widely used in spvp… it’s just not my cup of tea and there are other weapon sets that can utilize it more effectively.

scabrous.7835:

Acro trickery S/D will be always good in 1v1, always. But for my taste you’re way too squishy. One landed burst and you’re dead which isn’t that much of a big deal during 1vX or even during small scale combat.

That is indeed true, though I do use cavaliers trinkets time to time. It’s not a great boost in damage mitigation, however, it does provide some buffer.

Introductions
Hello fellow thief comrades!

My name is Mugentora and I am currently residing in SoR.

After contemplating it for many a day, I finally decided to put up a video showcasing some good fights. In all honesty though, I wish I had recorded duels from much before but unfortunately I hadn’t done so. I am far from an amazing thief, as I speak from experience from duels with several of you who are vocal in this forum and there is still room for a lot of improvement.

Video and Analysis

Notes about video

• I do apologize beforehand for the possible “seizure” inducing panning in the video, it’s just that I am used to panning at that speed from other games.
• The intro for the video is not that amazing so do forgive me for that, I plan on making it less lame looking.
• The footage for this video was recorded before the Feature Patch.

Personal analysis

From re-watching that footage, I know I made a bunch of errors and screwups.
I plan on improving on those accounts, like missing CnD’s (the one against the warrior in the beginning though was a misclick, I initially intended for a Dancing Dagger but I pressed the wrong button) and repositioning myself better. I am always open to constructive criticism, as I believe the only way to improve oneself is to know one’s flaws and work on reducing them.

Build

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fZAQRAsY6Yl0Mp3pFOx0J8PNBNB5dY+SZ0KAdHl+WEA-T1CBwAnVCiVZWw9Hk8QAwpSDgTAQWlGp0OkXHgO1FCcEAIFwTTAA-w

EDIT: forgot to give a name to this build, not that it matter I suppose lol, anyhow I think I would call this the Devious Feline

It’s a build that I had come up with after much experimentation. It mainly focuses on being evasive and for that the majority of stealth is removed from the utilities. The only time I have used stealth in that build is when I am running with group, during which I just swap out RFI for SR.

Just a note though, in the video I don’t use Quick Recovery but rather Assassins Reward. Granted it’s an abysmal heal, it synergizes pretty decently with life steal food and regen from Pain Response; I have however, removed it since then for a better initiative regn trait (might go back to it, down the line).

Pros

• Very evasive
• Good amount of extra health for survivability
• Extra stun breaks
• Good damage, when coupled with the minor trait in Acro, Fluid strikes, it becomes even more effective.

Cons

• Susceptible to heavy direct damage, since there is nothing in SA or added toughness
• Condi is a relative inconvenience (With purity sigil it’s not as bad)

Post Patch Changes
The major post patch changes that I made to this build was the sigils.

• I swapped out the fire sigil from the sword for a purity sigil which provides extra condi mitigation.
• The offhand dagger for the S/D is now running a Blood Sigil (giving it a runabout really to see how much of a benefit it gives now)
• If I had monies I was going to swap out the force on pistol for generosity sigil.

I have also been tinkering with a travelers set to see how it plays with this build.

Ending Remarks

I hope you guys enjoyed it.

I would also like to thank the many of you who have put aside their time to watch/read this, I really appreciate it.

I do apologize for the long post, as it’s my first time putting up a video and the likes.

—Regards,
Mugentora

I was in EoTM the other day, and I killed a ranger… this is what he sent me in whisper

Out of curiosity why did you decide to waste IS on the engie when he is right next to you?

You already gain might from stealth since you have 30 in SA, it just seems stupid to try and get 5 extra stacks with IS of all signets. I mean you would have probably benefited with Assassin’s Signet if that’s all you were trying to do.

Here are two of my thief sets.
First is: Arah coat, leggings, and boots, Toxic Arms, Skull shoulderpads, and grenth hood
Second is: Commando’s coat, Anonymity hood, Hellfire Vambraces, Whispers Leggings, shoulders, and boots

Deamhan.9538:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pmu5sRIizdw

Anet is adding a new profession designed specifically to bust zergs

Don’t we have this killer bunny in FoTM lol.. it would be hilarious if they made that into a meta event champ in WvW

2: Not an implemented solution but http://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/1i2pgg/i_hate_losing_my_mouse_pointer_in_hectic_battles/
does work to a good extent as a simple solution.

22: this is incoming in one of the upcoming patches, read it in a reddit datamine post

Not sure if anyone figured this out yet, but for Path 1 the final boss, you can get rid of the gravelings by pulling them into the flame circles (which kill them instantly) as long as you have a dedicated kiter who is kiting them into the flames then the howling king isn’t as hard to deal with.

and the basic keep away from his super kamehameha blast.